Author Topic: European Superleague  (Read 11727 times)

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Re: European Superleague
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2021, 10:46:52 AM »

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Of note, all of the teams will still compete in their national leagues.  This is basically destroying the Champions League, not the the National Leagues.
This is quite literally the problem with this idea. It literally screws the rest of Europe.

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2021, 10:49:07 AM »

Offline 100% Celt

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One of the issues I see with the current situation is that there's really only a handful of clubs in each of Europe's domestic competitions that are chances to win it each year. If you look at La Liga you have to go back to 2003 when Valencia won it, to find the last time there was a champion other than Real Madrid, Barca or Atletico. Same with Germany - Bayern have won it 15 times since 2000, including the last 7 in a row. In Italy, Juve have won the last 9, then AC Milan and then 4 in a row by Inter after the match fixing scandal. It's literally a foregone conclusion even before the season starts. In England there has been more parity, because you have 6 or 7 clubs that can win it each year, though it's probably going to be a long time before we see another run like Leicester made.

These so called super clubs just have so much more money to spend, if you look at Man City, they were trash before Sheikh Mansour bought them in 2008. Since then the club has spent millions and millions in transfer fees to acquire a star studded squad, because there's no salary cap in the PL (they have that Fair Play thing which I think is a farce). Obviously it's worked, the club is now the second most valued club in England after Man United and it generates huge amounts of revenue (though I think profit is another story). Comparing them before to now, there's no comparison. Same goes for PSG when the Qataris bought them. It's all about how much you can spend. Isn't the reason Rafa Benitez left Newcastle is because Mike Ashley is a tightfist and refused to spend money on a better squad?

So in a way I can see why they want to play amongst themselves - that's where all the money is. They need that money to maintain their stature and keep the revenue flowing in, whether it's merchandising, broadcast or gate sales. They go through the motions of the domestic competition pretty much knowing that even though they play different teams each week they're really competing with each other - if Real beat Sociedad then Barca has to as well to keep up. So why go through all that when none of these other teams will make the CL anyway? Just pick who will be playing in advance and do it every week, to maximize the Benjamins (or Euros).

The losers though, will be teams like Leicester, or West Ham, or Atalanta, or Seville, or the top teams of the smaller European leagues, like Ajax, Besiktas, Olympiakos...though I'm sure the Super League will figure out some kind of qualifying process to let them play with the big boys.

Five in a row.

If the athlete which wins the gold medal at the Olympics is found guilty of cheating, the gold medal goes to the next competitor who didn't and he's the winner. Juventus cheated. They got the league taken off them because they didn't play by the rules. Milan cheated and so got docked 30 points. Inter played by the rules and got the most points of all the teams who did so. Campioni!

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2021, 10:51:20 AM »

Offline 100% Celt

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A funny aside btw is the English clubs will be worse off than all the rest because of Brexit!



And to think, some people voted leave to damage the "UK". Can't think who...  :angel: :angel: :angel:

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2021, 10:54:37 AM »

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The issue with this statement is that itís the same clubs that have ruined the parity/financial fair play in their domestic leagues. As you mentioned, these clubs are now more valuable than the league itself due the their pockets. Itís in essence destroyed the parity and ability to compete in pretty much most domestic leagues. The way these teams operate has ruined soccer in most countries. FIFA needs to implement financial fair play on these clubs to reign in their spending, not let them create their own league at the expense of everyone else.

Sorry, and I mean this respectfully, it's an utter nonsense that financial fair play is the way to go to increase competition. Financial fair play has completely destroyed competition. In fact, a number of the clubs in the list are clubs that have paid the heaviest prices under financial fair play.

Before financial fair play, the longest run of consecutive scudetti was five. Under financial fair play, it's now nine, nearly double. The club which is going almost certainly going to stop that becoming ten is one which has built up slowly, correctly and gotten into the position its now in by using its resources wisely. Inter and Milan were absolutely crippled by financial fair play. Juventus are now swimming in debt because of the Cristiano Ronaldo deal which happened under "financial fair play".

In Germany, prior to financial fair play, nobody had won the Bundesliga more than three times consecutively. And that club was Monchengladbach, not Bayern who had only won it twice in a row. This season it's almost certainly they'll do nine in a row. Three times the previous record.

Everyone jumps on Manchester City but Manchester United are essentially owned by debt. They can't even afford to pay to maintain their stadium properly which is slowly falling into rack and ruin. City spent a lot of money at the start to get up to the level they wanted to be at but since then have been run extremely well and have also absolutely transformed the area of Manchester they now play in from being a desolate wasteground to a thriving area. Manchester United should have had a transfer embargo put on them since the Glazers came in.

Financial fair play is a complete set of balls. Either a system like in American sports and rugby is brought in where everyone has the same limit they can spend to but not over it so it's equal or you don't have it at all. What has been in place in the last ten years in European soccer has been officially enforced inequality. "Your bigger so you have a bigger budget so you can spend more than them who can never hope to catch you up because we won't let them spend the money to do so".

https://thesuperleague.com/press.html

Statement form Superleague, it will have 15 founding members, which can't be relegated, and then will have 5 additional clubs that can rotate.  12 of the 15 have been announced. 

AC Milan, Arsenal, Atlťtico de Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Internazionale Milano, Juventus, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid  and Tottenham Hotspur

The other 3 are rumored to be Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund and Paris Saint-Germain

Of note, all of the teams will still compete in their national leagues.  This is basically destroying the Champions League, not the the National Leagues.

Quote
Competition Format
20 participating clubs with 15 Founding Clubs and a qualifying mechanism for a further five teams to qualify annually based on achievements in the prior season.

Midweek fixtures with all participating clubs continuing to compete in their respective national leagues, preserving the traditional domestic match calendar which remains at the heart of the club game.

An August start with clubs participating in two groups of ten, playing home and away fixtures, with the top three in each group automatically qualifying for the quarter finals. Teams finishing fourth and fifth will then compete in a two-legged play-off for the remaining quarter-final positions. A two-leg knockout format will be used to reach the final at the end of May, which will be staged as a single fixture at a neutral venue.

Domestic leagues cannot possibly run with any credibility with these teams having a foot in and a foot out. Come December, if a Superleague team is doing well in the SL, they will throw reserves/young players at the domestic leagues to keep their players fresh for the SL. If they're doing badly in the SL, they will throw all their best players at the domestic league so they rip it apart.
Think we are saying the same thing. Apologies if use of financial fair play term Meade it confusing. I meant financial fair play as in the advantage it has created for clubs that have bigger budgets as opposed to the smaller teams/markets and restrictions opposed to them. It has literally created the haves and the have nots. Itís impossible for mid level teams and smaller leagues to be able to literally compete. I would know because the team I followed (Panathinaikos from Greece) went from being a consistent 2nd round team in the UCL twenty years ago to literally in economic shambles as a result of these policies.

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2021, 10:54:44 AM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I think it's just really cowardly.  It locks in a guaranteed berth for the big teams and shuts everyone out.  Part of the fun of the Champions League is seeing a random team get a young star and then be on the level of these other teams.  Like when De Bruyne broke out on Wolfsburg or even just seeing a team like Galatasaray being able to qualify so often against the odds.  I like quirky nonsense like that and I can totally see where the appeal comes from, but this will just cut out a really interesting part of international soccer.

Frankly, the big teams should qualify every year.  Without Germany (or Portugal and the rest of the big Italian teams), this is trash anyway.

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2021, 11:26:46 AM »

Offline 100% Celt

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Think we are saying the same thing. Apologies if use of financial fair play term Meade it confusing. I meant financial fair play as in the advantage it has created for clubs that have bigger budgets as opposed to the smaller teams/markets and restrictions opposed to them. It has literally created the haves and the have nots. Itís impossible for mid level teams and smaller leagues to be able to literally compete. I would know because the team I followed (Panathinaikos from Greece) went from being a consistent 2nd round team in the UCL twenty years ago to literally in economic shambles as a result of these policies.

Agreed. For a long time I've been saying spending caps that are equal across the board should be implemented like in American sports and rugby and that teams should be rewarded for finishing lower down. I know that brings in the possibility of teams tanking a season but, in my opinion, that's better than the same teams winning constantly.

As an example, implement a Ä500 million budget turnover a year which includes everything (yes I know this is huge but I'm not talking about being able to simply spend half a billion but it being turnover).

Obviously some teams will be able to spend that and others not. But nothing is stopping a club being able to spend it should rich benefactors come in or slowly work their way up to spending that.

And give more prize money to the teams that finish lower. So, we're almost certain to win the league this year. In this instance, I would give far more prize and tv revenue money to the team which finished 17th than us (not to 18th, 19th, 20th because that then would give them an unfair advantage in Serie B). That then allows them to build their squad more because they need to whereas logic says if we win the league, we have the best squad in the competition so we don't need to invest as much.

Sure the usual suspects would of course still dominate, it has ever been thus, but not to the level where they're basically tearing the leagues apart.

That also naturally means that teams in less fashionable leagues aren't going to get the same tv money etc. as in others. So, yes, Inter will always have that natural advantage over Panathinaikos. But there would also not be anything stopping someone saying "y'know, Athens is a cool place, there's a big expat Greek community in America, Australia etc. I can sell to and if I get the club competitive at the elite level, people from new markets will take an interest and start following us".

I think it's just really cowardly.  It locks in a guaranteed berth for the big teams and shuts everyone out.  Part of the fun of the Champions League is seeing a random team get a young star and then be on the level of these other teams.  Like when De Bruyne broke out on Wolfsburg or even just seeing a team like Galatasaray being able to qualify so often against the odds.  I like quirky nonsense like that and I can totally see where the appeal comes from, but this will just cut out a really interesting part of international soccer.

Frankly, the big teams should qualify every year.  Without Germany (or Portugal and the rest of the big Italian teams), this is trash anyway.

Everyone should have to qualify every year. Inter are one of the biggest clubs in the world but if we're not good enough to qualify, tough s**t, we don't. As I said, I'm one of those whose club is in the mix for this league but I don't want to be in something simply because we're a fashionable name. It's utter nonsense.

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2021, 02:28:03 PM »

Online Moranis

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Of note, all of the teams will still compete in their national leagues.  This is basically destroying the Champions League, not the the National Leagues.
This is quite literally the problem with this idea. It literally screws the rest of Europe.
eh, doesn't seem a whole lot different than the Champions League.  Not as big as it will only have 20 teams, but all 20 of those teams are basically in the Champions League anyway (or at least could be based on talent).
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2021, 02:50:26 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I love this idea. Absolutely love it. If I was running one of these 'big' clubs I'd also pull out of the domestic leagues as well.

I have zero interest in watching my beloved Rossoneri play freakin' Sampdoria, Crotone, ect or some other podunk team from cowtown. Nobody wants to watch the Boston Celtics play the Maine Red Claws, it's the same darn thing.

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2021, 03:34:20 PM »

Offline 100% Celt

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I love this idea. Absolutely love it. If I was running one of these 'big' clubs I'd also pull out of the domestic leagues as well.

I have zero interest in watching my beloved Rossoneri play freakin' Sampdoria, Crotone, ect or some other podunk team from cowtown. Nobody wants to watch the Boston Celtics play the Maine Red Claws, it's the same darn thing.

No, it's absolutely not the same thing. Anyone who thinks it is doesn't understand soccer. I'm not even going to start to explain why it's the polar opposite because frankly it would take too long. To be honest "some other podunk team from cowtown" sounds like a troll looking for a reaction anyway. All I'll say is, if you can't get up for watching Milan against another team in Serie A, you don't love them nearly as much as you think you do.

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2021, 03:42:54 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I love this idea. Absolutely love it. If I was running one of these 'big' clubs I'd also pull out of the domestic leagues as well.

I have zero interest in watching my beloved Rossoneri play freakin' Sampdoria, Crotone, ect or some other podunk team from cowtown. Nobody wants to watch the Boston Celtics play the Maine Red Claws, it's the same darn thing.

No, it's absolutely not the same thing. Anyone who thinks it is doesn't understand soccer. I'm not even going to start to explain why it's the polar opposite because frankly it would take too long. To be honest "some other podunk team from cowtown" sounds like a troll looking for a reaction anyway. All I'll say is, if you can't get up for watching Milan against another team in Serie A, you don't love them nearly as much as you think you do.

Honestly, you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

But that's okay I don't need you to agree with me. I'm just simply stating my opinion and moving it along. How you feel about that is neither here nor there.

If the these big clubs want this to happen it will, no matter how much some want to complain.

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2021, 04:01:04 PM »

Offline 100% Celt

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I love this idea. Absolutely love it. If I was running one of these 'big' clubs I'd also pull out of the domestic leagues as well.

I have zero interest in watching my beloved Rossoneri play freakin' Sampdoria, Crotone, ect or some other podunk team from cowtown. Nobody wants to watch the Boston Celtics play the Maine Red Claws, it's the same darn thing.

No, it's absolutely not the same thing. Anyone who thinks it is doesn't understand soccer. I'm not even going to start to explain why it's the polar opposite because frankly it would take too long. To be honest "some other podunk team from cowtown" sounds like a troll looking for a reaction anyway. All I'll say is, if you can't get up for watching Milan against another team in Serie A, you don't love them nearly as much as you think you do.

Honestly, you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

But that's okay I don't need you to agree with me. I'm just simply stating my opinion and moving it along. How you feel about that is neither here nor there.

If the these big clubs want this to happen it will, no matter how much some want to complain.

Well La Domenica Sportiva (you can understand Italian, can't you, being such a big rossonero  ::)), La Gazzetta dello Sport, il Corriere dello Sport, Tuttosport, umpteen fan forums including all the principle ones agree with my standpoint but yeah, I know nothing. 🤦

And it's neither here nor there when all those people agree with me? OK.  ;D

Fanboys who have literally no understanding of their club's history and pluck a team out of a hat because they expect it to win trophies, never go to the stadia and watch from another continent on TV with a fake shirt and scarf are really where it's at!!! 🤦

Your blind waffle about it happening if the clubs want it to happen... you do know it's been attempted before and failed, don't you? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

This is the problem with trying to get soccer into new markets in places where the market knows the price of everything and the value of nothing lol. ::)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 04:08:05 PM by 100% Celt »

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2021, 04:04:15 PM »

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I love this idea. Absolutely love it. If I was running one of these 'big' clubs I'd also pull out of the domestic leagues as well.

I have zero interest in watching my beloved Rossoneri play freakin' Sampdoria, Crotone, ect or some other podunk team from cowtown. Nobody wants to watch the Boston Celtics play the Maine Red Claws, it's the same darn thing.
So basically you are advocating for the failure of all domestic leagues and non top 10 club teams in Europe?

Itís like saying the Los Angeles/NYC teams are going to break from the NBA and make their own league to keep all the revenue they generate at the cost of the rest of the league which would undoubtedly fold.

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2021, 04:09:27 PM »

Offline 100% Celt

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I love this idea. Absolutely love it. If I was running one of these 'big' clubs I'd also pull out of the domestic leagues as well.

I have zero interest in watching my beloved Rossoneri play freakin' Sampdoria, Crotone, ect or some other podunk team from cowtown. Nobody wants to watch the Boston Celtics play the Maine Red Claws, it's the same darn thing.
So basically you are advocating for the failure of all domestic leagues and non top 10 club teams in Europe?

Itís like saying the Los Angeles/NYC teams are going to break from the NBA and make their own league to keep all the revenue they generate at the cost of the rest of the league which would undoubtedly fold.

He's a rossonero... even their local fans demand season ticket refunds when the club sells a player!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Re: European Superleague
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2021, 04:15:05 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I love this idea. Absolutely love it. If I was running one of these 'big' clubs I'd also pull out of the domestic leagues as well.

I have zero interest in watching my beloved Rossoneri play freakin' Sampdoria, Crotone, ect or some other podunk team from cowtown. Nobody wants to watch the Boston Celtics play the Maine Red Claws, it's the same darn thing.

No, it's absolutely not the same thing. Anyone who thinks it is doesn't understand soccer. I'm not even going to start to explain why it's the polar opposite because frankly it would take too long. To be honest "some other podunk team from cowtown" sounds like a troll looking for a reaction anyway. All I'll say is, if you can't get up for watching Milan against another team in Serie A, you don't love them nearly as much as you think you do.

Honestly, you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

But that's okay I don't need you to agree with me. I'm just simply stating my opinion and moving it along. How you feel about that is neither here nor there.

If the these big clubs want this to happen it will, no matter how much some want to complain.

Well La Domenica Sportiva (you can understand Italian, can't you, being such a big rossonero  ::)), La Gazzetta dello Sport, il Corriere dello Sport, Tuttosport, umpteen fan forums including all the principle ones agree with my standpoint but yeah, I know nothing. 🤦

And it's neither here nor there when all those people agree with me? OK.  ;D

Fanboys who have literally no understanding of their club's history and pluck a team out of a hat because they expect it to win trophies, never go to the stadia and watch from another continent on TV with a fake shirt and scarf are really where it's at!!! 🤦

Your blind waffle about it happening if the clubs want it to happen... you do know it's been attempted before and failed, don't you? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

This is the problem with trying to get soccer into new markets in places where the market knows the price of everything and the value of nothing lol. ::)

Tone it down bigtime.


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Re: European Superleague
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2021, 04:25:49 PM »

Online PAOBoston

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Of note, all of the teams will still compete in their national leagues.  This is basically destroying the Champions League, not the the National Leagues.
This is quite literally the problem with this idea. It literally screws the rest of Europe.
eh, doesn't seem a whole lot different than the Champions League.  Not as big as it will only have 20 teams, but all 20 of those teams are basically in the Champions League anyway (or at least could be based on talent).
Domestic results matter in order to qualify for those events. Basically, thereís like 10 rich teams who will always be in this tournament no matter what and just get boatloads of money regardless if they actually merit to be in such a tournament.