Author Topic: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?  (Read 64641 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #405 on: December 18, 2020, 12:48:47 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
PHOENIX  SUNS
Tony Parker/Norm Van Lier/Steve Kerr
Clyde Drexler/Devin Booker/J.J. Redick
Danny Granger/Hedo Turkoglu/Tayshaun Prince
Giannis Antetokounmpo/Anthony Mason/Bob Love
DeAndre Jordan/Carlos Boozer/Troy Murphy

I was surprised you did not select another center. I understand wanting to use Giannis at center and fully agree that is an excellent option but why did you not select a 3rd string center?

Someone that can give you a few minutes at center in a game where DeAndre isn't playing well or is in foul trouble. Or if you just want to say big because it is working well (your defensive size is dominating). A couple quick fouls to DeAndre and you have little alternative.

I thought a 3rd string center who can defend would have added more to your bench than 4 PFs.
Boozer played center throughout his career. At Utah he played the 5 alongside Millsap a ton but was always listed as a 4. In Chicago he played a bunch of center when Noah was out, which was a lot, and with their 2nd unit. He also played center in LA too.

While Boozer was listed as a 4, he played a bunch of center in his career.

Yeah but Boozer was a defensive liability there. So was Troy Murphy. They played there but they weren't very good.

A.Mason looks the best bet for defensive aid but he is still only 6-7 with low level shot-blocking.

It just feels off to me. That the team is over-reliant on DeAndre Jordan and over-exposed to any problems he has (poor performance or foul trouble).
Over reliant on Jordan? That makes no sense.

First, Jordan's main job is defense and rebounding versus the opponent's bigs. So he will be most important versus guys like Moses, Jokic, Gilmore and maybe Gasol. But all the other centers in this game aren't all that great offensively that Boozer can't be effective slowing them down. There is a few starting centers and many backups you don't even have to worry about what they bring offensively.

DeAndre is around a 24 minute a game role player. Add 12-15 minutes of elite small ball with Giannis at center and Boozer is getting like 10 minutes a game. Against most centers in this endeavor, especially bench ones, Boozer is fine.

Really, for all the talk here about centers, I think this is easily the worst group of centers in the history of Historical Drafts. After the top 4-5 guys, everyone else is disappointing to me and can easily be slowed or rendered negligible by just decent defense.

Center was the weakest position when you consider quality of players and in the modern environment we are playing in it's the least important position.

(1) With Boozer and T.Murphy, It's less about the 1-on-1 defense at center and more about the team defense. That is where the biggest drop off will be.

(2) Agreed on center being the least important position for today's game.

(3) Not sure if center is the weakest position in this league. It is certainly weak but I am also pretty down on the PF position. There is some competition between the two of them for weakest position for me.

(4) Over-reliant on D.Jordan because he is your only real center. Not because he is good player. Once you go past him, you have Giannis in small ball or guys playing out of position (Murphy, Mason, Boozer) in small ball.
Forget Murphy, he will almost never play. He is my 15th man in the rotation. Boozer is like my 10th player in the rotation. If in his 10 MPG he has a +/- of 0, he'll have done his job.

And as for playing small, that is the plan, small ball. The Suns will force others to adjust to our style. It won't be the other way around.

Also my small ball lineup

Giannis 6'11" 242 lbs center
Hedo 6'10" 220 lbs or Granger 6'9" 220 lbs power forward
Clyde 6'7" 210 lbs small forward
Booker 6'5" 205 lbs shooting guard
Redick 6'3" 200 lbs point guard

Not really small. 😉😋😎
But it is at least down low.  Hedo is super skinny and not very strong.  He was a poor defender and can't guard anyone in the interior.  I mentioned this during the draft, but i think you are going to get brutalized if you play Giannis at center, especially at over 10 minutes a game.  He is already a guy that can barely play 32 minutes and now you want to put the added strain of having to guard players in the post (because he has to do it as no one else can).  I think you'd be much better off playing Mason at PF in that setting because he can at least guard the PF sized interior players in the post.  That doesn't fully correct the Giannis having to guard a center take, because he will, and that imo is a terrible idea.  And I wasn't joking about the 32 mpg.  Giannis doesn't play very many minutes and he hasn't really even ramped up in the playoffs.  He isn't a guy that is going to play 40 minutes of highly effective basketball, you are going to get 32ish minutes out of him, which I think is more like 28 if you make him play center for any real period of time because that will just wear on him.  He is quite simply just going to get worn down, and since you are so reliant on him, you shouldn't put him in the situations that are going to require him to work in the paint.  And I know you think you will have an advantage on the other end of the floor, but I don't think it is nearly as great as you think, nor will it have lasting positive impact. 

I absolutely agree with Who, you needed to take another real center.  Even someone like Al Jefferson that I nabbed in the last round would have helped a lot more than what you have.  You have no size and you are going to pay for that because size does matter, especially when you force your best player to play out of position for a lot of minutes.
Completely disagree with both of you. Giannis at center is going to force most other teams to adjust to our small ball or get run off the court. As I said, my team philosophy is to push pace, score in transition and force the other teams to adjust to us.

I think you are both right, if you are considering a slow pace, halfcourt offense type game. But that's not the game the Suns will be playing.

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #406 on: December 18, 2020, 12:57:02 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Moderator
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Also, I never mentioned how many minutes Giannis would play. 30-32 sounds optimal. It's not like he has to carry a bunch of nobodies and will be forced to play 36-40 minutes. My God, he's playing alongside Clyde Drexler, Tony Parker, Devin Booker, et al.

And I think that goes for most teams. They are all loaded with talent. If you're playing a guy 36-40 MPG, I think you might be making a mistake and wearing down your players over the long haul.

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #407 on: December 19, 2020, 11:08:45 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Make sure to get your rankings in! Currently have 5, 4 from GMs
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #408 on: December 19, 2020, 11:37:16 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Make sure to get your rankings in! Currently have 5, 4 from GMs
I will try to work on them today.  Been pretty busy.  Are we just ranking the 9 teams (obviously excluding my own) from 1 to 9, or are we supposed to be doing other things as well?
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #409 on: December 19, 2020, 07:26:55 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Make sure to get your rankings in! Currently have 5, 4 from GMs
I will try to work on them today.  Been pretty busy.  Are we just ranking the 9 teams (obviously excluding my own) from 1 to 9, or are we supposed to be doing other things as well?
Just the 1-9 ballot is fine. When I’ve got them all and I’ve announced the placements, I’ll collate all the votes into a post and share them in the main thread. Then we can have as much or as little discussion as we want
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #410 on: December 19, 2020, 07:46:15 PM »

Offline RPGenerate

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4626
  • Tommy Points: 468
I'll hopefully get them done by the end of the night. Honestly having a hard time with ranking them.
2023 No Top 75 Fantasy Draft Los Angeles Clippers
PG: Dennis Johnson / Jo Jo White / Stephon Marbury
SG: Sidney Moncrief / World B. Free
SF: Chris Mullin / Ron Artest
PF: Detlef Schrempf / Tom Chambers / Buck Williams
C: Ben Wallace / Andrew Bynum

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #411 on: December 19, 2020, 07:56:04 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
I'll hopefully get them done by the end of the night. Honestly having a hard time with ranking them.
Definitely get that. There has been a lot of inconsistency with the votes so far. One voter will have team x as a top team, the next voter will have them as a bottom team
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #412 on: December 19, 2020, 10:30:56 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Got most ballots in. When RPG, Moranis & CFF send theirs in I’ll post results
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #413 on: December 19, 2020, 11:28:57 PM »

Offline RPGenerate

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4626
  • Tommy Points: 468
Finished my ranking, and it was probably the hardest out of the three drafts I've done on this site. Even teams I put in the middle of the pack I thought did a great job team building. It'll be interesting to see how others did their rankings.
2023 No Top 75 Fantasy Draft Los Angeles Clippers
PG: Dennis Johnson / Jo Jo White / Stephon Marbury
SG: Sidney Moncrief / World B. Free
SF: Chris Mullin / Ron Artest
PF: Detlef Schrempf / Tom Chambers / Buck Williams
C: Ben Wallace / Andrew Bynum

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #414 on: December 20, 2020, 12:18:50 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
I just did a 1 to 9, but have them submitted now.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #415 on: December 20, 2020, 12:47:32 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Thanks guys! Just waiting on CFF, but know he’s been bud. Will PM him
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2021 Historical Draft: How Does My Team Look?
« Reply #416 on: December 20, 2020, 10:49:51 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Thanks for doing all this.  I enjoy these but also understand just how much work it is.  And this one was hard.  I had a couple of teams I thought stood out but everyone else was very close together. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip