Author Topic: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Celtics Win!!! Congrats to Who!!!  (Read 18324 times)

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Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2020, 11:27:30 AM »

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I think it would be interesting to see which team could slow down the other's best player (Shaq or Durant) in this series better than the other.

Boston does have a big front line, although Pau is not a physical presence at all.  Can Marc and Sheed limit Shaq?  One great way to limit a post presence like him is to stop the entry pass. I'm not sure if they can, though.  Nash is not likely to offer much resistence there, so can Marc Gasol use his size and smarts to 'front' Shaq in the post? Horford's passing ability from the high post, however, makes that a much more difficult task.  Giving Al the option of feeding Shaq, driving to the rim, or if Boston sends help into the lane, the option of hitting an open Peja or Reggie for three is a marvelous weapon to have.

Utah seems like they will struggle to find defenders to slow Durant from doing whatever he wants.  Jaylen Brown might be their best bet, but that would mean taking one of Reggie or Peja off the court, and losing a fair amount of shooting prowess.  How much has Jaylen defended KD historically, and how has he fared?
Imo Nash is better Durant offensively. The work he did in Dallas and Phoenix was amazing, and I think he would be able to play that sort of role on this Boston team. I do see Durant as a better overall player because of his defence, but if you're solely talking about offensive prowess I think Nash edges Durant out.
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Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2020, 04:55:56 PM »

Offline action781

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Why Utah Just Might Beat Boston
Part 1:  The Change to the Starting Lineup and Our Defensive Strategy

As mentioned, the starting lineup for Utah this series is decided and it will be Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq.*

The reason for the change here is obvious: to defend Durant.  Boston’s offense is incredible... by most accounts the best in the league.  With all the incredible defenses that we’ve seen in this league, Utah is probably somewhere in the middle-ish overall (not top 3 but not bottom 3), but we do have maybe the best starting defenders this series to defend Boston’s two offensive engines of Nash and Durant in Jason Kidd and PJ Tucker.

Defending Nash
Jason Kidd has been argued by a few posters (including Who) as the single best point guard defender in this game.  I generally like to be conservative in my arguments, so I can’t say that’s definitively true, but I think he is certainly among the best.  Can he shut down Nash?  No, I don’t think so.  Can he contain him to some level?  Hopefully.  If we need to give Nash a little bump near the scorers table in game 4 of the series, then we can bring in Marcus Smart in off the bench for some “physicality”.  ;)

Defending Durant
PJ Tucker is our answer defensively to defend Durant.  Why?  See for yourself.

Kevin Durant names PJ Tucker as NBA’s best one-on-one defender

Quote from: some article you can google it
In the 2017-18 NBA season, Durant’s shooting efficiency went from 51.6% overall and 41.9% on three-pointers [in the regular season] to 46.1% and 39.6%, respectively, in front of Tucker and the Rockets in their seven-game postseason matchup in the Western Conference Finals.

Last season[2018-19], Durant’s shooting fell from 52.1% in the season to 45.8% in the five playoff games that he played against the Rockets in the second round. In both series, Tucker spent significant time on Durant in isolation settings, particularly late in games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvyjYxetZHI

Will PJ Tucker play 36-40 minutes a game opposite Durant?  No.  We still want to get some good minutes out of Jaylen Brown, Peja, and maybe Mashburn at SF.  PJ will play ~24-30 minutes per game in this series and all of which will be when Durant is on the floor, including likely crunch time minutes.  This is whether Durant is the SF or PF on the floor.  The more time Durant spends at PF (which we expect some of), the more minutes we can play Peja at SF.

People might have been scratching their heads in the 12th round when I drafted PJ Tucker.  But as mentioned in that post, I drafted him exactly for this reason of possibly running into Durant in the Finals.  This perceived head-scratcher was a gamble.  A smart and calculated gamble that just paid itself off.

Other 1-1 matchups
All the other 1-1 matchups, we feel fine about.  Reggie has played Allan Houston 34 times in his career and despite Reggie's perceived defensive weaknesses, we have no concern for Allan “Mr. 25-1-1” Houston to do any better than an average performance for him against Reggie.  In fact, Allan’s only scored 20+ points in 5 of his 34 career matchups against Reggie.**  And our front court 1-1 matchups pose no problems for us.

Defending the 1-5 pick and roll
This is what most of you came here to read.  Despite all of Utah’s 1-1 matchups here being as solid as most teams can ask for, the ability for Nash to attack Shaq in the 1-5 pick and roll creates a serious vulnerability in Utah’s defense.  We need to come up with a plan for how to defend the 1-5 pick and roll. 

When Shaq is in the game, our plan this series is to ICE the 1-5 pick and roll.  Kidd/Rondo forces Nash away from the screen to the sideline, where Shaq is dropped back into sag coverage.  If Nash wants to take it into Shaq with a defender trailing on his hip, OK go for it.  If Nash wants to dribble into an off-balance jumpshot, it’s unfortunate for us that he’s actually awesome at making those, but we’ve gotta live with it.  The best way for an offense to attack an ICE defense is for the big man to pop and take the open jumper given to him by the sagging big man.  So that’s what Utah will do and live with when Boston runs the 1-5 pick and roll.  Marc Gasol is a pretty darn decent jump shooter too.  In the 2013 season, he shot 45.1% on 10-16 foot jumpers, 49.4% on 16-3pt jumpers, and only shot 1/12 on 3’s for the season, but we know that is dishonest for us to assume he’d shoot that poorly (or infrequently) from 3.  In reality, I’d expect him to shoot somewhere near his career averages on all those shots... Somewhere between 41-49% on the 10+ foot 2s (his career % is about 42% for that range) and about 35.6% on 3s.  And that’s what we’ll surrender to Boston.  That Marc Gasol long jumper is a play with an ORtg capping out around 106-107.  It’s not ideal, but when an offense is as amazing as Boston’s is, that's the poison we're picking and our plan is to do better on our offensive side of the floor. 

-----
*Assuming Boston goes with their normal starting 5.
**To be fair, 7 of those games were very early or late in Allan's career, so let's say 5/27 times.  Still nothing to worry about.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 05:10:22 PM by action781 »
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2020, 05:04:37 PM »

Offline action781

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The game of basketball is obviously not as simple or predictable as this I've laid out in that description, particularly the 1-5 pick and roll.  Crazy things happen.  Jason Kidd has dribbled the ball off his own foot in crunch time.  Steve Nash has given a handtowel covered in his armpit sweat to a teammate to wipe his face with.  But I wanted to at least give you something in your minds that you can imagine and I do think it will play out that way quite a few times.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2020, 05:48:29 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Utah:  Is it even possible to attack Boston’s robust defensive backcourt?  ;)

Also, how do you suspect to win with a dinosaur like Shaquille O’Neal? Nobody from your team could possibly drive into the lane with a big man there, correct?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 05:53:36 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2020, 06:05:13 PM »

Offline action781

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Why Utah might beat Boston
Part 2:  The Offensive Strategy

The Strategy
Remember, Boston is a quite bad defensive team in this league.  We’ve seen how people perceive their defenders varies from poster to poster, but does anyone have them outside the worst 3 defensive teams in the league?  Given that, we don’t need to vary much from our base offensive strategy in this matchup. 

Post up Shaq.  The 6’11” 255 lb Gasol is probably a top-5 option in this league to defend the Shaq 7'1" 325 lb.  I have Gasol behind Big Ben, Yao, and D-Rob but he’s somewhere in that next group of DPOY-level defenders.  But Shaq is Shaq and in certain spots he just can’t be stopped, especially the spots I hope Kidd and Rondo (and Horford) are delivering perfectly pinpointed passes to him, which he didn’t get enough of in LA.

The 1-5 pick and roll.  People seem particularly concerned about how Shaq can be attacked in the 1-5 pick and roll.  Well I hope nobody is ignoring how Utah can attack Nash in the pick and roll.  How do they defend it?  Can Nash fight through that Shaq screen?  Marc Gasol can step up on the perimeter.  But please don’t tell me that Boston is going to switch.  Or please do tell me so.  Because the other end of that switch is Nash switching on to Shaq.  It will be difficult for Boston to defend that no matter how they choose to.

“The Utah Triple Screen”.  Remember that play I drew up?  Reggie will be back in the 2 spot running Allan Houston off that triple screen.

And with Peja not starting, he will come off the bench to provide a significant extra offensive punch there, particularly while Shaq sits.

The PJ Tucker Effect
Peja is an incredible threat to have in the offense.  He’s truly an elite floor spacer.  A guy you can’t help off of.  He can score from all three levels better than people probably remember.  Throughout this entire game, I’ve wondered if Peja’s three-level scoring ability might actually be better suited off the bench the whole time.  I ended up settling on him being useful in either role.

In this matchup, our starting lineup’s primary points of attack are going to be the typical attack through Shaq and through Kidd attacking Nash.  Tucker is far more limited offensively than Peja, but what he provides is still valuable — a player that can spread the floor and keep Boston’s defense from double teaming.  Tucker has consistently been a 37-38% 3 point shooter over the past 3 seasons all coming from spot-ups which is the exact role he’ll have in the starting lineup here.  I think he's a really nice complementary fit. 

Basically, the defense we gain from swapping PJ in for Peja to guard Durant is significantly more than the offensive boost Peja would have provided alongside our other starters in this matchup.  That made this a decision that we felt was a no brainer and will make this matchup a battle.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 11:21:19 PM by action781 »
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2020, 06:07:07 PM »

Offline action781

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Utah:  Is it even possible to attack Boston’s robust defensive backcourt?  ;)

Also, how do you suspect to win with a dinosaur like Shaquille O’Neal? Nobody from your team could possibly drive into the lane with a big man there, correct?

Hey hey, I was on your side on that one
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2020, 06:25:41 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Utah:  Is it even possible to attack Boston’s robust defensive backcourt?  ;)

Also, how do you suspect to win with a dinosaur like Shaquille O’Neal? Nobody from your team could possibly drive into the lane with a big man there, correct?

Hey hey, I was on your side on that one!

;)

I’m teasing, but I admit that some of the conventional wisdom (and its defiance of the last 40 years of basketball) was a bit frustrating, at least without a dialogue.


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Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2020, 11:26:16 PM »

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Utah:  Is it even possible to attack Boston’s robust defensive backcourt?  ;)

Also, how do you suspect to win with a dinosaur like Shaquille O’Neal? Nobody from your team could possibly drive into the lane with a big man there, correct?

Hey hey, I was on your side on that one!

;)

I’m teasing, but I admit that some of the conventional wisdom (and its defiance of the last 40 years of basketball) was a bit frustrating, at least without a dialogue.
To be fair my defiance of the last 40 years of basketball has nothing to do with great lob threats like Shaq, there's a thing called vertical spacing. It's only when you start stacking 2-4 guys who aren't really good shooters that it starts getting iffy for a team (ie. not your Milwaukee team). Great players thrive with or without spacing, but their efficiency is maximised with it, and lesser creators really need it.
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Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2020, 09:16:13 AM »

Offline action781

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We want Shaq to be a scorer more than a passer.

We want to make him work. To expand energy. And we most certainly do not want him passing and creating easy shots for all those shooters Utah have.

We don't want him making his teammates better (with his playmaking). We want him making his teammates worse (due to his defensive weaknesses).

Utah's starters are not good at creating their own offense. They need help to get free. We do not want to help them do that. We want to contain them. We want to make Shaq beat us. We want to make him do everything. We want as much burden on his shoulders offensively & defensively as possible.

We want Shaq to be a scorer. Not a passer.

We know he'll score - he'll score a lot! - but we will contain his teammates and we will tire him down.



And then we want to grind him down some more on defense. Constantly attacking him in the PnR with Steve Nash and others like Kevin Durant. We want to wear Shaq down. No rest-bite. Attack, attack, attack.

Our shooters will be free to bomb away against the holes Shaq leaves behind.

----------------

Marc Gasol is our primary matchup against Shaq. He is more physically powerful / has a lower center of gravity / harder to move than most of the centers Shaq faced on his trips to 3 straight titles.

We have 5 big men who will all see time on Shaq. Marc Gasol will get as much playing time as fouls allow. Then we have Pau, Sheed, Nene and Jaren Jackson. Pau and Sheed are not as good defensively on Shaq but they can make Shaq work even more on defense than Marc Gasol can. And Jaren Jackson with his high volume long range shooting gives a different option again.

We have 5 guys who are all 7 feet or near 7 feet. Three of them are 260+lbs. The two others are 240+lbs (Sheed, JJ Jr). They will be rotated in and out against Shaq. All our big men are two way players. Giving him different defensive looks and more importantly different offensive skill-sets to attack him with that he has to be aware of.

If that's what Boston wants, then that's what Boston will get.  Shaq has no problem being a scorer and we have no problem with that.  It's his trait he's most dominant at.

Will Shaq really get that tired being an offensive focal point?  Or playing ICE drop coverage in the p&r?  We're not talking about 2011 Shaq on the Celtics who couldn't play 5 straight minutes without the aide of an oxygen mask.  We're talking about 2000 Shaq who played 40 min per game in the regular season and 43.5 min per game in the playoffs.  The guy who averaged 38ppg on 61% shooting in 45.7 min per game against the 7'4" Rik Smits and strong 6'11" Dale Davis in the 2000 Finals.  That's what happens when you "want" Shaq to be a scorer.

Boston wants Shaq to be a scorer?  OK, got it.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2020, 09:26:43 AM »

Offline action781

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Quote from: Who

Utah's starters are not good at creating their own offense. They need help to get free. We do not want to help them do that. We want to contain them. We want to make Shaq beat us. We want to make him do everything. We want as much burden on his shoulders offensively & defensively as possible.


As for our starters not being good at creating their own offense, I will agree with that on PJ Tucker and Al Horford (matched up against Pau, at least).  They are great finishers, not great creators.  Reggie can create his own offense a bit, but is also a big time finisher. 

But we don't need Shaq to create for his teammates (it seems like Boston will let Shaq do plenty of creating for himself).  We have Jason Kidd running point -- the guy with eyes in the back of his head!  One of the best table setters in the game.  Going up against Steve Nash.  When Shaq is "too tired" to lean his 325 lbs on a smaller defender, then Kidd (by driving) and Reggie (by running off screens) can generate some high quality offense for us. 

We also have Peja being mixed in off the bench who was at his best playing with a point guard like Bibby who could drive and kick and I expect Kidd defended by Nash will generate a lot of that for Peja too.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2020, 10:09:48 AM »

Offline Moranis

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We want Shaq to be a scorer more than a passer.

We want to make him work. To expand energy. And we most certainly do not want him passing and creating easy shots for all those shooters Utah have.

We don't want him making his teammates better (with his playmaking). We want him making his teammates worse (due to his defensive weaknesses).

Utah's starters are not good at creating their own offense. They need help to get free. We do not want to help them do that. We want to contain them. We want to make Shaq beat us. We want to make him do everything. We want as much burden on his shoulders offensively & defensively as possible.

We want Shaq to be a scorer. Not a passer.

We know he'll score - he'll score a lot! - but we will contain his teammates and we will tire him down.



And then we want to grind him down some more on defense. Constantly attacking him in the PnR with Steve Nash and others like Kevin Durant. We want to wear Shaq down. No rest-bite. Attack, attack, attack.

Our shooters will be free to bomb away against the holes Shaq leaves behind.

----------------

Marc Gasol is our primary matchup against Shaq. He is more physically powerful / has a lower center of gravity / harder to move than most of the centers Shaq faced on his trips to 3 straight titles.

We have 5 big men who will all see time on Shaq. Marc Gasol will get as much playing time as fouls allow. Then we have Pau, Sheed, Nene and Jaren Jackson. Pau and Sheed are not as good defensively on Shaq but they can make Shaq work even more on defense than Marc Gasol can. And Jaren Jackson with his high volume long range shooting gives a different option again.

We have 5 guys who are all 7 feet or near 7 feet. Three of them are 260+lbs. The two others are 240+lbs (Sheed, JJ Jr). They will be rotated in and out against Shaq. All our big men are two way players. Giving him different defensive looks and more importantly different offensive skill-sets to attack him with that he has to be aware of.

If that's what Boston wants, then that's what Boston will get.  Shaq has no problem being a scorer and we have no problem with that.  It's his trait he's most dominant at.

Will Shaq really get that tired being an offensive focal point?  Or playing ICE drop coverage in the p&r?  We're not talking about 2011 Shaq on the Celtics who couldn't play 5 straight minutes without the aide of an oxygen mask.  We're talking about 2000 Shaq who played 40 min per game in the regular season and 43.5 min per game in the playoffs.  The guy who averaged 38ppg on 61% shooting in 45.7 min per game against the 7'4" Rik Smits and strong 6'11" Dale Davis in the 2000 Finals.  That's what happens when you "want" Shaq to be a scorer.

Boston wants Shaq to be a scorer?  OK, got it.
To be fair, 2000 Shaq wasn't defending out at the 3 point line though either.  He was playing at slow pace and never really had to leave the paint.  I think he'd be ok, but wouldn't be surprised at all if he wore down from a lot more running in a more modern game.  That said, Gasol from 12-13 didn't have 3 point range, so he wouldn't be pulling Shaq out nearly as much as a later version of Gasol would have.  I get why you take the DPOY season of Gasol, but in some ways 16-17 would have been the better season to choose given how effective Gasol was from deep that season.   I also find it strange that Gasol won the DPOY but was only 2nd Team All Defense (and they had 3 Big Men on the 1st team - Chandler, Ibaka, Noah). 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2020, 10:19:36 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Action781, you are working hard for this win. I credit you with that.

But I think you made a mistake subbing in Tucker. He's a great guy to rotate in a make Durant's life miserable, but I don't think you have enough offense out there with him at small forward.

Shaq is great. but I have a serious question. How much better is that starting lineup than the closing lineup for the Lakers in 2000? They had Bryant, Horry, Robinson, and Harper/fisher. No doubt that Bryant is better than Miller. Is Robinson a better player at that point that Horford? Is Horry is a better player than Tucker? Probably not to both those questions, but I think its not a ridiculous question.

I think I would have zagged and went small with great shooting around Shaq. I think I would have done a Miller-Peja-Mashburn lineup with Kidd and Shaq and force Pau to chase shooters around the court.

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2020, 10:24:41 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think that Action is right to point out that the Gasol brothers are “lane cloggers” themselves.  I don’t think this point has been adequately addressed.

Now, my argument is that spacing is a wildly overstated argument when you’re talking about great players, but that doesn’t seem to be the prevailing wisdom.  Why is Boston immune?  If we apply a fair standard, shouldn’t the Gasol brothers be greatly diminished offensively, and Durant confined exclusively to shooting jumpers?


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Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2020, 10:41:02 AM »

Offline action781

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Action781, you are working hard for this win. I credit you with that.

But I think you made a mistake subbing in Tucker. He's a great guy to rotate in a make Durant's life miserable, but I don't think you have enough offense out there with him at small forward.

Shaq is great. but I have a serious question. How much better is that starting lineup than the closing lineup for the Lakers in 2000? They had Bryant, Horry, Robinson, and Harper/fisher. No doubt that Bryant is better than Miller. Is Robinson a better player at that point that Horford? Is Horry is a better player than Tucker? Probably not to both those questions, but I think its not a ridiculous question.

I think I would have zagged and went small with great shooting around Shaq. I think I would have done a Miller-Peja-Mashburn lineup with Kidd and Shaq and force Pau to chase shooters around the court.

I'd say Kidd - Reggie - Tucker - Horford is certainly better than the 2000 Lakers lineup of Harper/Fisher - Kobe - Rice/Fox - Horry/Green.  I notice that you compared the players position-wise, which is a natural thing to do, but if you're comparing overall talent level of the teams then you really want to match up by descending talent-level. 

In that case, the comparisons are:

Kidd & Kobe -- Equal.  21-year-old Kobe was a very good player in 2000, but I think Kidd was his equal or better.  Kidd scored more MVP votes than Kobe in each of the 2000, 2001, and 2002 seasons.  Supporting case no doubt has some effect on that, but Jason Kidd was really good in his prime in the early 2000s.

Reggie & Fox/Rice -- Advantage Reggie in terms of overall talent over Rice.  Significant advantage over Fox.  Those two players were undrafted in this game which I think speaks enough volumes on this.

Tucker & Harper/Fisher -- Equal-ish.  Both role players.  Tucker is clearly more valuable for what I need this series, but the question is about overall talent which could go either way depending on who you ask in this case.

Horford & LA's turnstile of PFs in the early 2000s -- Significant advantage Horford not only overall, but in just about every single attribute and in fit.

So basically the Utah Jazz are a souped up version of the most dominant dynasty in the 2000s.

---
Edit: I just noticed that I didn't exactly compare descending talent level like I said I should.  I guess it just made too much sense for me to compare the PFs against each other the way I did.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: FINALS: Boston vs Utah
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2020, 10:49:25 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Boston