Poll

Choose the team that has the biggest concerns

New England Patriots
8 (61.5%)
Boston Celtics
3 (23.1%)
Boston Bruins
2 (15.4%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Voting closed: December 19, 2019, 07:51:45 AM

Author Topic: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?  (Read 8404 times)

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Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2019, 10:19:05 PM »

Offline gpap

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The Sox.

Nothing is a bigger impediment than a cheap owner.

The ironic part is I don't necessarily disagree with Henry's strategy because in MLB, the penalties are quite steep if you continue to blow past the CBT (competitive balance tax.)

BUT...don't come out and tell the fans "oh we need to cut payroll" and THEN raise ticket prices!

The Red Sox really need a better PR department.

You can still put a good product on the field and still have a payroll of about $200 mil (the first luxury tax threshold this year is $208 million.) The issue is the way the Sox approach the situation.

And they should've thought about all this before giving that extension to Chris Sale and resigning Nate Eovaldi to a 4 year, $68 million contract.

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2019, 11:20:14 PM »

Offline colincb

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Certainly not the Cs or Bs.

I don't blame Brady nor is it easy to assess just where he is right now given the thin offense he started with that has since been decimated. The puny running game and inexperienced receivers leave him only JE as a reliable option and opponents know it. The Patriots are not just going to reload and be a championship team if he retires or leaves, but if he stays, it can be fixed.

Sox on the OTOH finished 19 games out, did squat at the winter meetings, and appear destined to be non-competitive again next summer.

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2019, 11:44:08 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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New England Patriots lol. The worst 10-3 team I have ever seen. Nonexistent offense, probably worse than 2013 when Thompkins/Boyce/Dobson/Collies were Brady's targets outside of Edelman or 2006 when Reche Caldwell, Lawrence Maroney, and Troy Brown were there. Probably one and done this year, if not, lose in AFCCG in Baltimore.


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Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2019, 02:25:03 AM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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C's have a lot of the future to look forward to with young talent. The Pats are all in on winning with a 42 year old QB whose decline is really starting to kick in.

I guess my question would be when is the future going to become the present because we've been hearing that for a long time.

We drafted Jaylen 3 and a half years ago, and Tatum 2 and a half years ago. I don't know how that qualifies as "a long time"

Even if you go back to the KG/Pierce trade as the start of the rebuild, it's only been 6 and a half years, and considering that we've made the ECF twice since then, we're looking pretty [dang] good.

We're still way ahead if the game when it comes to rebuilding after breaking up an aging core that you went all in on (which, coincidentally, could be the case for the Patriots soon, at least as far as skill positions go)

I think the difficult thing as a Celtics fan is the constant comparison to the Lakers—which isn't a fair comparison, given that so many more players want to go to L.A. than to Boston, but that's how it is. The Lakers stunk for, what, six straight seasons? They even stunk last season with just LeBron. But then they got Davis and boom! Instant contender.

Meanwhile, Ainge has to plot and plan and try to draft well and hope he can convince at least one really good free agent to sign on and then cross his fingers and hope that something like last season (Kyrie) or two seasons ago (Hayward's injury) doesn't happen—and if anything like those things does happen, that sets the plan back a fair bit.

And I'm not sure there's anything Danny could really have done better. It just sucks to see L.A. be L.A.
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Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2019, 02:30:07 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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The Sox.

Nothing is a bigger impediment than a cheap owner.

The ironic part is I don't necessarily disagree with Henry's strategy because in MLB, the penalties are quite steep if you continue to blow past the CBT (competitive balance tax.)

BUT...don't come out and tell the fans "oh we need to cut payroll" and THEN raise ticket prices!

The Red Sox really need a better PR department.

You can still put a good product on the field and still have a payroll of about $200 mil (the first luxury tax threshold this year is $208 million.) The issue is the way the Sox approach the situation.

And they should've thought about all this before giving that extension to Chris Sale and resigning Nate Eovaldi to a 4 year, $68 million contract.


Admittedly I don't follow the mlb that closely but it's my understanding that the Sox are gonna lose their young MVP infielder because they aren't willing to pay luxury tax.  Despite it being an uncapped league and the Sox basically printing money.

That's just ... Untenable.
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Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2019, 11:02:35 AM »

Offline gpap

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C's have a lot of the future to look forward to with young talent. The Pats are all in on winning with a 42 year old QB whose decline is really starting to kick in.

I guess my question would be when is the future going to become the present because we've been hearing that for a long time.

We drafted Jaylen 3 and a half years ago, and Tatum 2 and a half years ago. I don't know how that qualifies as "a long time"

Even if you go back to the KG/Pierce trade as the start of the rebuild, it's only been 6 and a half years, and considering that we've made the ECF twice since then, we're looking pretty [dang] good.

We're still way ahead if the game when it comes to rebuilding after breaking up an aging core that you went all in on (which, coincidentally, could be the case for the Patriots soon, at least as far as skill positions go)

I think the difficult thing as a Celtics fan is the constant comparison to the Lakers—which isn't a fair comparison, given that so many more players want to go to L.A. than to Boston, but that's how it is. The Lakers stunk for, what, six straight seasons? They even stunk last season with just LeBron. But then they got Davis and boom! Instant contender.

Meanwhile, Ainge has to plot and plan and try to draft well and hope he can convince at least one really good free agent to sign on and then cross his fingers and hope that something like last season (Kyrie) or two seasons ago (Hayward's injury) doesn't happen—and if anything like those things does happen, that sets the plan back a fair bit.

And I'm not sure there's anything Danny could really have done better. It just sucks to see L.A. be L.A.

And I'll give Ainge some credit. He's tried to help expedite the Celts chances to being a championship contender.

In 2016, he signed Al Horford. In 2017, he signed Hayward and then made a very bold trade in dealing the lovable IT and the vaunted Brooklyn pick (along with an affordable Jae Crowder) for the mercurial Kyrie.

I think my main issue with Ainge is acquiring too many small forwards and not enough bigs and shooting guards.

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2019, 11:39:11 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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C's have a lot of the future to look forward to with young talent. The Pats are all in on winning with a 42 year old QB whose decline is really starting to kick in.

I guess my question would be when is the future going to become the present because we've been hearing that for a long time.

We drafted Jaylen 3 and a half years ago, and Tatum 2 and a half years ago. I don't know how that qualifies as "a long time"

Even if you go back to the KG/Pierce trade as the start of the rebuild, it's only been 6 and a half years, and considering that we've made the ECF twice since then, we're looking pretty [dang] good.

We're still way ahead if the game when it comes to rebuilding after breaking up an aging core that you went all in on (which, coincidentally, could be the case for the Patriots soon, at least as far as skill positions go)

I think the difficult thing as a Celtics fan is the constant comparison to the Lakers—which isn't a fair comparison, given that so many more players want to go to L.A. than to Boston, but that's how it is. The Lakers stunk for, what, six straight seasons? They even stunk last season with just LeBron. But then they got Davis and boom! Instant contender.

Meanwhile, Ainge has to plot and plan and try to draft well and hope he can convince at least one really good free agent to sign on and then cross his fingers and hope that something like last season (Kyrie) or two seasons ago (Hayward's injury) doesn't happen—and if anything like those things does happen, that sets the plan back a fair bit.

And I'm not sure there's anything Danny could really have done better. It just sucks to see L.A. be L.A.

And I'll give Ainge some credit. He's tried to help expedite the Celts chances to being a championship contender.

In 2016, he signed Al Horford. In 2017, he signed Hayward and then made a very bold trade in dealing the lovable IT and the vaunted Brooklyn pick (along with an affordable Jae Crowder) for the mercurial Kyrie.

I think my main issue with Ainge is acquiring too many small forwards and not enough bigs and shooting guards.

Ainge had also gone hard after Durant and came close to landing him before he chose GS. He also was going hard after AD until his agent made it clear that he was not going to stay in Boston if we traded for him.

It's not like Ainge hasn't tried to go all in on winning now.

If he had traded Jaylen and Smart for Kawhi like many wanted, Kawhi would still likely have bolted for LA and we'd be left with only Tatum going forward.

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2019, 11:45:29 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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C's have a lot of the future to look forward to with young talent. The Pats are all in on winning with a 42 year old QB whose decline is really starting to kick in.

I guess my question would be when is the future going to become the present because we've been hearing that for a long time.

We drafted Jaylen 3 and a half years ago, and Tatum 2 and a half years ago. I don't know how that qualifies as "a long time"

Even if you go back to the KG/Pierce trade as the start of the rebuild, it's only been 6 and a half years, and considering that we've made the ECF twice since then, we're looking pretty [dang] good.

We're still way ahead if the game when it comes to rebuilding after breaking up an aging core that you went all in on (which, coincidentally, could be the case for the Patriots soon, at least as far as skill positions go)

I think the difficult thing as a Celtics fan is the constant comparison to the Lakers—which isn't a fair comparison, given that so many more players want to go to L.A. than to Boston, but that's how it is. The Lakers stunk for, what, six straight seasons? They even stunk last season with just LeBron. But then they got Davis and boom! Instant contender.

Meanwhile, Ainge has to plot and plan and try to draft well and hope he can convince at least one really good free agent to sign on and then cross his fingers and hope that something like last season (Kyrie) or two seasons ago (Hayward's injury) doesn't happen—and if anything like those things does happen, that sets the plan back a fair bit.

And I'm not sure there's anything Danny could really have done better. It just sucks to see L.A. be L.A.

And I'll give Ainge some credit. He's tried to help expedite the Celts chances to being a championship contender.

In 2016, he signed Al Horford. In 2017, he signed Hayward and then made a very bold trade in dealing the lovable IT and the vaunted Brooklyn pick (along with an affordable Jae Crowder) for the mercurial Kyrie.

I think my main issue with Ainge is acquiring too many small forwards and not enough bigs and shooting guards.

Ainge had also gone hard after Durant and came close to landing him before he chose GS. He also was going hard after AD until his agent made it clear that he was not going to stay in Boston if we traded for him.

It's not like Ainge hasn't tried to go all in on winning now.

If he had traded Jaylen and Smart for Kawhi like many wanted, Kawhi would still likely have bolted for LA and we'd be left with only Tatum going forward.
Tatum plus a ring lol

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2019, 12:50:58 PM »

Offline greg683x

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The Sox.

Nothing is a bigger impediment than a cheap owner.

this is quite a hilarious statement about a team with the 4th highest payroll last year, and have had the #1 highest average payroll since the year 2000.

if the red sox have cheap ownership, then what does that make the Baltimore Orioles ownership?  The Marlins ownership?  or Oakland?


This is like a rich guy complaining about having to fly commercial instead of private.
Greg

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2019, 01:05:29 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The Sox.

Nothing is a bigger impediment than a cheap owner.

this is quite a hilarious statement about a team with the 4th highest payroll last year, and have had the #1 highest average payroll since the year 2000.

if the red sox have cheap ownership, then what does that make the Baltimore Orioles ownership?  The Marlins ownership?  or Oakland?


This is like a rich guy complaining about having to fly commercial instead of private.
I agree. Sox ownership is about the complete opposite of cheap. They have no problem spending money.

But, that does have limits and ownership will spend the most money in the league if it means making a run at a title but will scale back(under the tax line), while still spending gobs of cash in years where they are rebuilding. That's not cheap, it's smart.

And it's worked well given 4 titles in 15 years.

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2019, 01:36:54 PM »

Offline greg683x

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The Sox.

Nothing is a bigger impediment than a cheap owner.

this is quite a hilarious statement about a team with the 4th highest payroll last year, and have had the #1 highest average payroll since the year 2000.

if the red sox have cheap ownership, then what does that make the Baltimore Orioles ownership?  The Marlins ownership?  or Oakland?


This is like a rich guy complaining about having to fly commercial instead of private.
I agree. Sox ownership is about the complete opposite of cheap. They have no problem spending money.

But, that does have limits and ownership will spend the most money in the league if it means making a run at a title but will scale back(under the tax line), while still spending gobs of cash in years where they are rebuilding. That's not cheap, it's smart.

And it's worked well given 4 titles in 15 years.

i dont disagree at all.  Calling ownership cheap is just the wrong assessment of the situation.

The sox are getting burned by big, bad contracts right now.  Those players helped them win a ring so its hard to complain about but you cant blame ownership for wanting to scale back spending until the team gets out from underneath them.

This is really a potentially similar situation to the 76ers.  They have a great roster but they need to win RIGHT NOW, because in another year or two theyre gonna be handcuffed by Horford and Harris contracts.

The Baltimore Orioles on the other hand had a competitive window a few years ago where they could have tried to make a run with their talent to win a ring.  Ownership refused to spend money to bring in an ACE for the pitching staff, instead they chose bargain bin high risk deals on mid level pitchers and it blew up in their face.

THAT is cheap ownership.
Greg

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2019, 02:34:06 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The Sox.

Nothing is a bigger impediment than a cheap owner.

this is quite a hilarious statement about a team with the 4th highest payroll last year, and have had the #1 highest average payroll since the year 2000.

if the red sox have cheap ownership, then what does that make the Baltimore Orioles ownership?  The Marlins ownership?  or Oakland?


This is like a rich guy complaining about having to fly commercial instead of private.
I agree. Sox ownership is about the complete opposite of cheap. They have no problem spending money.

But, that does have limits and ownership will spend the most money in the league if it means making a run at a title but will scale back(under the tax line), while still spending gobs of cash in years where they are rebuilding. That's not cheap, it's smart.

And it's worked well given 4 titles in 15 years.


And yet if they have to let one of the best young players in the league walk because they can't "afford" to pay him, despite the fact that the ticket prices go up year after year and they've always been one of the top earning teams in the league, the "cheap" moniker will nonetheless be well deserved.


Do the Dodgers or Yankees run into these problems?  Can't recall hearing about that.



I understand needing to clean the cap sheet for the team to remain sustainable, but any time you're forced to let top young talent leave because of financials and you aren't constrained by a hard cap, that's an ownership spending issue, plain and simple.
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Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2019, 03:01:28 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The Sox.

Nothing is a bigger impediment than a cheap owner.

this is quite a hilarious statement about a team with the 4th highest payroll last year, and have had the #1 highest average payroll since the year 2000.

if the red sox have cheap ownership, then what does that make the Baltimore Orioles ownership?  The Marlins ownership?  or Oakland?


This is like a rich guy complaining about having to fly commercial instead of private.
I agree. Sox ownership is about the complete opposite of cheap. They have no problem spending money.

But, that does have limits and ownership will spend the most money in the league if it means making a run at a title but will scale back(under the tax line), while still spending gobs of cash in years where they are rebuilding. That's not cheap, it's smart.

And it's worked well given 4 titles in 15 years.


And yet if they have to let one of the best young players in the league walk because they can't "afford" to pay him, despite the fact that the ticket prices go up year after year and they've always been one of the top earning teams in the league, the "cheap" moniker will nonetheless be well deserved.


Do the Dodgers or Yankees run into these problems?  Can't recall hearing about that.



I understand needing to clean the cap sheet for the team to remain sustainable, but any time you're forced to let top young talent leave because of financials and you aren't constrained by a hard cap, that's an ownership spending issue, plain and simple.
Clearly, you don't follow the Sox.

First, Betts is an outfielder, you called him an infielder earlier. Second, it's Betts that wants to hit free agency because he thinks he will max out his next contract, not that the Sox don't want to sign him now. Third, it appears to get under the tax line they will be trading Price, not Betts. Betts leaving is no sure thing right now, especially if Price is moved.

As for the Dodgers and Yankees, they haven't been outspending the Sox and haven't been winning titles. So not sure doing what they do is the smartest thing to do.

As for the price increase, the demand for tickets are there. As long as the demand is there and people are willing to buy tickets, prices will go up. While it's not a great PR move to do it in a year you are trying to cut salary so that in future years you can spend like crazy and win another title, it has nothing to do with being cheap. Greedy, maybe. Cheap, no.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 03:09:10 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2019, 03:06:23 PM »

Offline greg683x

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The Sox.

Nothing is a bigger impediment than a cheap owner.

this is quite a hilarious statement about a team with the 4th highest payroll last year, and have had the #1 highest average payroll since the year 2000.

if the red sox have cheap ownership, then what does that make the Baltimore Orioles ownership?  The Marlins ownership?  or Oakland?


This is like a rich guy complaining about having to fly commercial instead of private.
I agree. Sox ownership is about the complete opposite of cheap. They have no problem spending money.

But, that does have limits and ownership will spend the most money in the league if it means making a run at a title but will scale back(under the tax line), while still spending gobs of cash in years where they are rebuilding. That's not cheap, it's smart.

And it's worked well given 4 titles in 15 years.


And yet if they have to let one of the best young players in the league walk because they can't "afford" to pay him, despite the fact that the ticket prices go up year after year and they've always been one of the top earning teams in the league, the "cheap" moniker will nonetheless be well deserved.


Do the Dodgers or Yankees run into these problems?  Can't recall hearing about that.



I understand needing to clean the cap sheet for the team to remain sustainable, but any time you're forced to let top young talent leave because of financials and you aren't constrained by a hard cap, that's an ownership spending issue, plain and simple.

So then by your own standard, the World Series champion Washington Nationals have cheap ownership for letting Bryce Harper walk?  When does it become good business?

Back to the Sox, We handed out some awful contracts that we have to recover from, it won us a world series title, but may cost us a great young player bc were just not gonna pay the ridiculous price tag hes looking for, on top of all the other money we owe to said bad contracts?

Is that the bar for being cheap in your eyes?   
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 03:12:11 PM by greg683x »
Greg

Re: Which Boston sports team is in the biggest trouble?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2019, 08:30:17 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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