Author Topic: 2019-20 EPL Season  (Read 26907 times)

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2019-20 EPL Season
« on: August 01, 2019, 11:49:09 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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It's almost upon us, so I thought I'd start the thread.

What's your takes? Top 4 predictions? Who would win the league? Who would be the surprise team?

Also. . .

https://twitter.com/ArsenalRecap/status/1156150320734593025?s=20
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
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SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2019, 11:57:11 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Assuming that no team makes any deadline deals and the squads are set, I think the top teams will play out like this:
1. Manchester City
2. Liverpool
3. Tottenham
4. Arsenal
5. Chelsea
6. Wolves
7. Manchester United (assuming that they won't sign a top CB and CM to shore up their team before the deadline because of Woodward reasons)
8. West Ham
9. Leicester City
10. Everton
I personally think that United's ceiling is 5th with a basement of being a team fighting the relegation battle (which was Ole's record after the honeymoon), really not sold on Ole being a good enough manager to paper over the cracks in the squad, as their backline and midfield is still very poor, not to mention the inevitable letdown by their strikers (them pinning their hopes on Marcus Rashford will go down as one of the biggest blunders in the post-Ferguson era).
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2019, 01:24:22 PM »

Offline RunningTheFloor

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I grew up playing soccer, but never was able to get into watching games on TV - other than the World Cup.  Part of it was I just don't find MLS to be very good.  Over the last few years, I've watched an EPL game or two throughout the season, and was much more intrigued with how good these guys are.  The problem was I didn't have a horse in the race.

I decided to change that for the upcoming season.  Now - if you're like me, you've never had to choose a professional sports team to watch - it's always been Celtics, Bruins, Patriots, and Red Sox.  So take it from me, it's actually really hard.  So I thought I'd share how I chose a team to follow for this year.

To give me a cheat sheet, I used this article:
https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2018/08/10/new-fans-guide-to-finding-favorite-premier-league-club/

No Relegation:
The first thing I decided was that I didn't want to pick a team and have them relegated in the next year or two.  So I chose a team that had been in the Premiere League in at least 20 of its 27 year history.  Goodbye: Bournemouth, Brighton and Hove Albion, Burnley, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Huddersfield Town, Leicester City, Watford, and Wolverhampton.

No London:
I had no idea there were so many teams just in London.  It's fascinating to me.  A city as die hard as Boston, wouldn't be able to support two NBA teams - let alone six.  It really shows how nuts people are for soccer - sorry football - over there.  Anyways, I figured I didn't want to choose a team that was in the biggest market in the country.  I'm not a New York guy; I won't be a London guy.  Goodbye: Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur, and West Ham United.

Nicknames:
I decided I didn't want to root for a team that used the same nickname as an American team.  I have no interest in rooting for a team called the Saints or the Spurs.  Those names are tainted to me.  Goodbye: Liverpool, Manchester United (Red Devils is close enough to Devils), and Southampton.

So this left me with: Everton, Manchester City, and Newcastle United.

Manchester City are the current league champions, and I didn't want to be a bandwagon jumper.  Goodbye: Manchester City.

So it was down to Everton and Newcastle United; the Toffees vs. The Magpies.

I didn't know what else to use to narrow it down from here.  Even reading the article I referenced didn't do a whole lot - although he compared Everton to the Boston Bruins and Newcastle United to the New York Knicks, but that was just one guy's opinion and I didn't want it to be my deciding factor.  So I thought about rivalries.  The Celtics have the Lakers.  The Red Sox have the Yankees.  It would be nice to join a team with a built-in rivalry.

Everton is located in Liverpool.  And there are only two teams in the city, which seemed like it would make for a natural rivalry.  As for Newcastle United, the two biggest rivals listed in the article were Sunderland and Middlesbrough.  I hadn't even heard of either of those teams.

So a decision was made.  Congratulations to Everton.  You have a new fan!  I've been following along all summer, and I clearly must be good luck, because they'll be bringing in Moise Kean - apparently one of the best young players in the world. 

I'm actually really excited for the season, and disappointed I'll only get to watch a handful of games.

Overall, this was actually a really fun process.  Even if you have no interest in soccer and won't actually follow a team, I'd still recommend doing it; especially for those of you who never chose to be Celtics fans.

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2019, 02:16:56 PM »

Offline Somebody

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I grew up playing soccer, but never was able to get into watching games on TV - other than the World Cup.  Part of it was I just don't find MLS to be very good.  Over the last few years, I've watched an EPL game or two throughout the season, and was much more intrigued with how good these guys are.  The problem was I didn't have a horse in the race.

I decided to change that for the upcoming season.  Now - if you're like me, you've never had to choose a professional sports team to watch - it's always been Celtics, Bruins, Patriots, and Red Sox.  So take it from me, it's actually really hard.  So I thought I'd share how I chose a team to follow for this year.

To give me a cheat sheet, I used this article:
https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2018/08/10/new-fans-guide-to-finding-favorite-premier-league-club/

No Relegation:
The first thing I decided was that I didn't want to pick a team and have them relegated in the next year or two.  So I chose a team that had been in the Premiere League in at least 20 of its 27 year history.  Goodbye: Bournemouth, Brighton and Hove Albion, Burnley, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Huddersfield Town, Leicester City, Watford, and Wolverhampton.

No London:
I had no idea there were so many teams just in London.  It's fascinating to me.  A city as die hard as Boston, wouldn't be able to support two NBA teams - let alone six.  It really shows how nuts people are for soccer - sorry football - over there.  Anyways, I figured I didn't want to choose a team that was in the biggest market in the country.  I'm not a New York guy; I won't be a London guy.  Goodbye: Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur, and West Ham United.

Nicknames:
I decided I didn't want to root for a team that used the same nickname as an American team.  I have no interest in rooting for a team called the Saints or the Spurs.  Those names are tainted to me.  Goodbye: Liverpool, Manchester United (Red Devils is close enough to Devils), and Southampton.

So this left me with: Everton, Manchester City, and Newcastle United.

Manchester City are the current league champions, and I didn't want to be a bandwagon jumper.  Goodbye: Manchester City.

So it was down to Everton and Newcastle United; the Toffees vs. The Magpies.

I didn't know what else to use to narrow it down from here.  Even reading the article I referenced didn't do a whole lot - although he compared Everton to the Boston Bruins and Newcastle United to the New York Knicks, but that was just one guy's opinion and I didn't want it to be my deciding factor.  So I thought about rivalries.  The Celtics have the Lakers.  The Red Sox have the Yankees.  It would be nice to join a team with a built-in rivalry.

Everton is located in Liverpool.  And there are only two teams in the city, which seemed like it would make for a natural rivalry.  As for Newcastle United, the two biggest rivals listed in the article were Sunderland and Middlesbrough.  I hadn't even heard of either of those teams.

So a decision was made.  Congratulations to Everton.  You have a new fan!  I've been following along all summer, and I clearly must be good luck, because they'll be bringing in Moise Kean - apparently one of the best young players in the world. 

I'm actually really excited for the season, and disappointed I'll only get to watch a handful of games.

Overall, this was actually a really fun process.  Even if you have no interest in soccer and won't actually follow a team, I'd still recommend doing it; especially for those of you who never chose to be Celtics fans.
Good choice! Everton have an ambitious ownership and a good manager. I wish your team luck in the premiership!
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2019, 03:36:47 PM »

Offline cargomaniac

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Starting watching the EPL 20 plus years ago....I worked with two Liverpool Fans and I got hooked. So....
van Dijk, Robertson, the ageless Milner, Firmino, Mane, Salah and Alisson....Much like for the Celtics...I am a true fan period.

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2019, 10:20:25 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I don't get it. I'm not going to complain, but I don't get it.

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1158730714185121795?s=20

Quote
Arsenal are close to signing Philippe Coutinho from Barcelona on loan this season, per
@BilelGhazi
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2019, 11:14:53 AM »

Offline ederson

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Starting watching the EPL 20 plus years ago....I worked with two Liverpool Fans and I got hooked. So....
van Dijk, Robertson, the ageless Milner, Firmino, Mane, Salah and Alisson....Much like for the Celtics...I am a true fan period.

 I feel old now... Mid 80s... Then all we got to  watch was one game sonetimes on Saturday and the cup final. Fergus on was still in Scotland 😂😂😂

 35+ years later I will go to my first premier league game! The weekend can't come soon enough!

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2019, 11:19:57 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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I grew up playing soccer, but never was able to get into watching games on TV - other than the World Cup.  Part of it was I just don't find MLS to be very good.  Over the last few years, I've watched an EPL game or two throughout the season, and was much more intrigued with how good these guys are.  The problem was I didn't have a horse in the race.

I decided to change that for the upcoming season.  Now - if you're like me, you've never had to choose a professional sports team to watch - it's always been Celtics, Bruins, Patriots, and Red Sox.  So take it from me, it's actually really hard.  So I thought I'd share how I chose a team to follow for this year.

To give me a cheat sheet, I used this article:
https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2018/08/10/new-fans-guide-to-finding-favorite-premier-league-club/

No Relegation:
The first thing I decided was that I didn't want to pick a team and have them relegated in the next year or two.  So I chose a team that had been in the Premiere League in at least 20 of its 27 year history.  Goodbye: Bournemouth, Brighton and Hove Albion, Burnley, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Huddersfield Town, Leicester City, Watford, and Wolverhampton.

No London:
I had no idea there were so many teams just in London.  It's fascinating to me.  A city as die hard as Boston, wouldn't be able to support two NBA teams - let alone six.  It really shows how nuts people are for soccer - sorry football - over there.  Anyways, I figured I didn't want to choose a team that was in the biggest market in the country.  I'm not a New York guy; I won't be a London guy.  Goodbye: Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur, and West Ham United.

Nicknames:
I decided I didn't want to root for a team that used the same nickname as an American team.  I have no interest in rooting for a team called the Saints or the Spurs.  Those names are tainted to me.  Goodbye: Liverpool, Manchester United (Red Devils is close enough to Devils), and Southampton.

So this left me with: Everton, Manchester City, and Newcastle United.

Manchester City are the current league champions, and I didn't want to be a bandwagon jumper.  Goodbye: Manchester City.

So it was down to Everton and Newcastle United; the Toffees vs. The Magpies.

I didn't know what else to use to narrow it down from here.  Even reading the article I referenced didn't do a whole lot - although he compared Everton to the Boston Bruins and Newcastle United to the New York Knicks, but that was just one guy's opinion and I didn't want it to be my deciding factor.  So I thought about rivalries.  The Celtics have the Lakers.  The Red Sox have the Yankees.  It would be nice to join a team with a built-in rivalry.

Everton is located in Liverpool.  And there are only two teams in the city, which seemed like it would make for a natural rivalry.  As for Newcastle United, the two biggest rivals listed in the article were Sunderland and Middlesbrough.  I hadn't even heard of either of those teams.

So a decision was made.  Congratulations to Everton.  You have a new fan!  I've been following along all summer, and I clearly must be good luck, because they'll be bringing in Moise Kean - apparently one of the best young players in the world. 

I'm actually really excited for the season, and disappointed I'll only get to watch a handful of games.

Overall, this was actually a really fun process.  Even if you have no interest in soccer and won't actually follow a team, I'd still recommend doing it; especially for those of you who never chose to be Celtics fans.
Good choice! Everton have an ambitious ownership and a good manager. I wish your team luck in the premiership!
Here are my unwanted 2c:

Choosing is easy when you go by color.
Definitely no blue teams for me because of the soccer teams I supported early in my life and still do.
You’d probably get fond of other blue teams so be prepared for years of mediocrity lol ... man city is the exception (thanks to unlimited amount of money not necessarily historical smart management decisions and developing youth )...
In most big cities in Europe the opposing teams have blue and red jerseys . You may find yourself in trouble if you wear the toffees jersey in Rome and be surrounded by Roma fans who hate lazio.

Another good way of picking a team for a lot of soccer fans that don’t want to be on the bandwagon or root for the Yankees of soccer is to choose a team that produces future stars and exciting players .... the obvious example is Ajax ( also red team lol) .... it’s hard to explain how heartbroken a lot of non Dutch fans of soccer were in last years champions league semifinal vs totemham...

If religion is big for you ... it makes sense for some fans to choose by religious associations—- Glasgow rangers (Protestants ) vs Celtic ( Catholics) ... note that Irish soccer fans are predominantly fans of Celtic ( Scottish team) they also tent to like the Celtics lol

If there is interest I can make a post on club rivalries by countries that I know of.


Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2019, 11:57:06 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I don't get it. I'm not going to complain, but I don't get it.

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1158730714185121795?s=20

Quote
Arsenal are close to signing Philippe Coutinho from Barcelona on loan this season, per
@BilelGhazi
1-8-2 formation incoming lol. But how are you guys going to fund him and Pepe? I thought you guys operate on a self financing basis with annual profits being mandatory.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2019, 11:59:25 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I grew up playing soccer, but never was able to get into watching games on TV - other than the World Cup.  Part of it was I just don't find MLS to be very good.  Over the last few years, I've watched an EPL game or two throughout the season, and was much more intrigued with how good these guys are.  The problem was I didn't have a horse in the race.

I decided to change that for the upcoming season.  Now - if you're like me, you've never had to choose a professional sports team to watch - it's always been Celtics, Bruins, Patriots, and Red Sox.  So take it from me, it's actually really hard.  So I thought I'd share how I chose a team to follow for this year.

To give me a cheat sheet, I used this article:
https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2018/08/10/new-fans-guide-to-finding-favorite-premier-league-club/

No Relegation:
The first thing I decided was that I didn't want to pick a team and have them relegated in the next year or two.  So I chose a team that had been in the Premiere League in at least 20 of its 27 year history.  Goodbye: Bournemouth, Brighton and Hove Albion, Burnley, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Huddersfield Town, Leicester City, Watford, and Wolverhampton.

No London:
I had no idea there were so many teams just in London.  It's fascinating to me.  A city as die hard as Boston, wouldn't be able to support two NBA teams - let alone six.  It really shows how nuts people are for soccer - sorry football - over there.  Anyways, I figured I didn't want to choose a team that was in the biggest market in the country.  I'm not a New York guy; I won't be a London guy.  Goodbye: Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham Hotspur, and West Ham United.

Nicknames:
I decided I didn't want to root for a team that used the same nickname as an American team.  I have no interest in rooting for a team called the Saints or the Spurs.  Those names are tainted to me.  Goodbye: Liverpool, Manchester United (Red Devils is close enough to Devils), and Southampton.

So this left me with: Everton, Manchester City, and Newcastle United.

Manchester City are the current league champions, and I didn't want to be a bandwagon jumper.  Goodbye: Manchester City.

So it was down to Everton and Newcastle United; the Toffees vs. The Magpies.

I didn't know what else to use to narrow it down from here.  Even reading the article I referenced didn't do a whole lot - although he compared Everton to the Boston Bruins and Newcastle United to the New York Knicks, but that was just one guy's opinion and I didn't want it to be my deciding factor.  So I thought about rivalries.  The Celtics have the Lakers.  The Red Sox have the Yankees.  It would be nice to join a team with a built-in rivalry.

Everton is located in Liverpool.  And there are only two teams in the city, which seemed like it would make for a natural rivalry.  As for Newcastle United, the two biggest rivals listed in the article were Sunderland and Middlesbrough.  I hadn't even heard of either of those teams.

So a decision was made.  Congratulations to Everton.  You have a new fan!  I've been following along all summer, and I clearly must be good luck, because they'll be bringing in Moise Kean - apparently one of the best young players in the world. 

I'm actually really excited for the season, and disappointed I'll only get to watch a handful of games.

Overall, this was actually a really fun process.  Even if you have no interest in soccer and won't actually follow a team, I'd still recommend doing it; especially for those of you who never chose to be Celtics fans.
Good choice! Everton have an ambitious ownership and a good manager. I wish your team luck in the premiership!
Here are my unwanted 2c:

Choosing is easy when you go by color.
Definitely no blue teams for me because of the soccer teams I supported early in my life and still do.
You’d probably get fond of other blue teams so be prepared for years of mediocrity lol ... man city is the exception (thanks to unlimited amount of money not necessarily historical smart management decisions and developing youth )...
In most big cities in Europe the opposing teams have blue and red jerseys . You may find yourself in trouble if you wear the toffees jersey in Rome and be surrounded by Roma fans who hate lazio.

Another good way of picking a team for a lot of soccer fans that don’t want to be on the bandwagon or root for the Yankees of soccer is to choose a team that produces future stars and exciting players .... the obvious example is Ajax ( also red team lol) .... it’s hard to explain how heartbroken a lot of non Dutch fans of soccer were in last years champions league semifinal vs totemham...

If religion is big for you ... it makes sense for some fans to choose by religious associations—- Glasgow rangers (Protestants ) vs Celtic ( Catholics) ... note that Irish soccer fans are predominantly fans of Celtic ( Scottish team) they also tent to like the Celtics lol

If there is interest I can make a post on club rivalries by countries that I know of.
Any no nonsense clubs? I know I'm being a huge bandwagon here but I quit being a United fan after Jose got sacked. I don't care if the club isn't good, I just want to watch a club where people are trying their best.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2019, 12:17:12 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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Quote from: Somebody
Any no nonsense clubs? I know I'm being a huge bandwagon here but I quit being a United fan after Jose got sacked. I don't care if the club isn't good, I just want to watch a club where people are trying their best.
Hmm you can go by teams that produce exciting players. I’m not sure what the equivalent of Ajax in EPL is.
Probably arsenal ... Venger has been a legend and got those young teams to play super exciting for years.
Maybe Everton and Newcastle are good choices - two teams with historically strong youth movement that play hard.

Leicester city (foxes) are a good choice but they seem to be a one hit wonder ...

 English teams aren’t what they used to be once the league became so commercialized. They don’t produce young players but just buy their way in ... usually importing from teams like Ajax or red Star Belgrade or Africa ...

The crazy gang of Wimbledon no longer exist and that is one of the reasons I say the EPL is not what it used to be... you can read here about them:

https://www.shortlist.com/news/the-story-of-wimbledons-crazy-gang

Maybe based on that you can pick a team you really like..

I have a friend who’s a big charlton athletic fan because they were somewhat successful 60 years ago ( and are red lol)

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2019, 12:24:39 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

  • Ed Macauley
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I don't get it. I'm not going to complain, but I don't get it.

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1158730714185121795?s=20

Quote
Arsenal are close to signing Philippe Coutinho from Barcelona on loan this season, per
@BilelGhazi
1-8-2 formation incoming lol. But how are you guys going to fund him and Pepe? I thought you guys operate on a self financing basis with annual profits being mandatory.

I don't know that myself.

The way I see it right now, the new Adidas kit deal, and the new Emirates Airlines kit deal would probably be where we would get some money from. We may have to sell Aubameyang after this season too.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2019, 01:00:40 PM »

Offline HomerSapien

  • Jaylen Brown
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I don't get it. I'm not going to complain, but I don't get it.

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1158730714185121795?s=20

Quote
Arsenal are close to signing Philippe Coutinho from Barcelona on loan this season, per
@BilelGhazi
1-8-2 formation incoming lol. But how are you guys going to fund him and Pepe? I thought you guys operate on a self financing basis with annual profits being mandatory.

I don't know that myself.

The way I see it right now, the new Adidas kit deal, and the new Emirates Airlines kit deal would probably be where we would get some money from. We may have to sell Aubameyang after this season too.
We really need a CB by Friday...  I don't think I can handle a year of Sokratis and Mustafi

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2019, 01:05:25 PM »

Offline Who

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As a Chelsea fan, I am excited to see this season.

I have zero faith in Frank Lampard's managerial abilities but he will at least play the young players and that is fantastic!

I am looking forward to seeing more of Loftus-Cheek and Hudson Odoi when they return from injuries. Mason Mount is a fun attacking midfield coming in as well. Then there is Tammy Abraham who had a prolific scoring year for Aston Villa in the Championship last year. Four exciting young players who figure to be important parts of the squad this season. There is even some noise that Tomori or Reece James might be part of the team.

I am also happy to see the team moving forward with Hazard. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if he had chosen to stay ... but Hazard leaving opens the door for others. He was a bit awkward at times. Refused to stay wide. Kept coming into the middle and reducing space for others. Then there was his phase of wanting to be a #10 and play in the middle and the last two coaches trying unsuccessfully for far too long to make him a #9.

Removing Hazard -- while removing a fantastic attacking talent -- will create more options for those at the club. For the manager and for the other attacking midfielders / wide forwards and for the central midfielders to push forward.

I am expecting more from Willian and maybe Pedro with Hazard gone. As well as creating more opportunities for young guys like Pulisic, Mount, Hudson Odoi and Loftus Cheek. Oh and Ross Barkley. I expect a more attacking version of Barkley this year. Not the restrained version (due to Sarri) we saw last year.

Anyway, lots of fun things happening at Chelsea. Not necessarily winning things at least in the immediate sense. But fun things! Youth!

If only we had a good manager ...

Who knows maybe Frank Lampard will surprise.

Re: 2019-20 EPL Season
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2019, 01:14:58 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Any no nonsense clubs? I know I'm being a huge bandwagon here but I quit being a United fan after Jose got sacked. I don't care if the club isn't good, I just want to watch a club where people are trying their best.
Given that we are in a Celtics forum, I guess the obvious choices would be the Merseyside clubs (Everton, Liverpool) due to strong connections with Ireland or Man Utd (also strong connections with Ireland, prior to being renamed ''Manchester United'' they were considering the name ''Manchester Celtic'').

Outside of the Premier League, there is also Glasgow Celtic (Scottish team) and Celta Vigo (Spanish team from Galicia which is considered by some as the 7th Celtic nation). Celtic wears green and white (just like the Celtics). Celta wears light blue shirts and white shorts. 



As for the no-nonsense style of play, the Spurs under Pochettino are the epitome of a no-nonsense club these days. All the Mourinho teams are no-nonsense teams as well.