2013 CB Historical Draft Thread

[nickagneta]

I'm a huge Walton fan and firmly believe if he had the availability of today's medical technology, he would be considered one of the top 3 bigs in the same breath as Russell, Chamberlain and Kareem. But he didn't and his legacy suffered. As Roy points out, even his best two years in the league he missed many games.

I am also a huge believer in building a team around an excellent big guy rather than a non big. But there are exceptions to every rule and I think Magic is that exception.

I will say that I spoke with 2 GMs prior to the draft and I said, I think a case can be made for any one of 7-8 players going #1 and Walton's name was among those names. Do I think his case is as good as others? No. but definitely an argument could be made that he should have been.

Ultimately my top 5 players went

Bird
Magic
Kareem
Malone
Erving

And then for the next 10-19 picks, I think, there's very little difference between those players. Walton, Cowens, an un-named PG and an unnamed center  would be right at the top of that next group of players. Again, IMHO.

As you know we had the same top 5.  I was surprised McAdoo lasted till 12, though I figured I wouldn't have needed to take him at 6, which is what I had on my list.  People always forget about McAdoo, but in this format his scoring and rebounding are huge assets.  Also, unlike most centers of his time, he had a very stong mid range game and was an excellent jump shooter.

Roy is doubtful of Dr. J's ability to get 10 RPG when he was young but McAdoo, in a watered down NBA, got 14 and 15. If McAdoo could get those numbers in the NBA during those years, I firmly believe Dr. J could have gotten 10 RPG.

But you're right, McAdoo gets forgotten but a lot of those 70's guys do because of a lack of good television contract, the division of the two leagues, and the basic popularity of the game as basketball for most of the late 60'sd and early 70's was identified, in a bad way, as a "black" league. Really dumb, IMO, but that was American society then.

[Donoghus]

I'm a huge Walton fan and firmly believe if he had the availability of today's medical technology, he would be considered one of the top 3 bigs in the same breath as Russell, Chamberlain and Kareem. But he didn't and his legacy suffered. As Roy points out, even his best two years in the league he missed many games.

I am also a huge believer in building a team around an excellent big guy rather than a non big. But there are exceptions to every rule and I think Magic is that exception.

I will say that I spoke with 2 GMs prior to the draft and I said, I think a case can be made for any one of 7-8 players going #1 and Walton's name was among those names. Do I think his case is as good as others? No. but definitely an argument could be made that he should have been.

Ultimately my top 5 players went

Bird
Magic
Kareem
Malone
Erving

And then for the next 10-19 picks, I think, there's very little difference between those players. Walton, Cowens, an un-named PG and an unnamed center  would be right at the top of that next group of players. Again, IMHO.

As you know we had the same top 5.  I was surprised McAdoo lasted till 12, though I figured I wouldn't have needed to take him at 6, which is what I had on my list.  People always forget about McAdoo, but in this format his scoring and rebounding are huge assets.  Also, unlike most centers of his time, he had a very stong mid range game and was an excellent jump shooter.

Roy is doubtful of Dr. J's ability to get 10 RPG when he was young but McAdoo, in a watered down NBA, got 14 and 15. If McAdoo could get those numbers in the NBA during those years, I firmly believe Dr. J could have gotten 10 RPG.

But you're right, McAdoo gets forgotten but a lot of those 70's guys do because of a lack of good television contract, the division of the two leagues, and the basic popularity of the game as basketball for most of the late 60'sd and early 70's was identified, in a bad way, as a "black" league. Really dumb, IMO, but that was American society then.

Which is why I love this particular time frame for the draft this year.

Extremely tough and you really need to dig on guys.

[nickagneta]

All told, an excellent round. Every player was deserving of a first round pick though there's probably a couple guys I would have had rather than a few picked.

Remember, you might think a player chosen to high but if a GM is going for a Best Defensive Team or a best Offensive Team type of team, they might value certain players more that fit in those categories.

There's a million ways to make a million bucks, as someone very wise once told me. So, its kind of tough to judge to much at this point. GreenFaith's pick of Walton and airbelinelli's pick of Gervin could turn out awesome, depending on where they are going with their team. GF probably got the best passing center in NBA history that can also dominate defensively and rebound like a mutha. air got one of the best pure scorer's in the history of the NBA. Tough to argue against getting a guy like that.

[nickagneta]

Front page updated.

ronaldo943 is leaving his position as co-GM of the San Diego Clippers and will be becoming a panelist after an amicable separation from San Diego over creative differences.

Have fun. PM me trades if you make them. Remember I need them from both parties. I will only be on intermittently so please be patient with my confirming the trades, or if Roy is around is willing and doesn't mind confirming the trade, I am fine with that as his judgment on these things is pretty excellent.

[ronaldo943]

Front page updated.

ronaldo943 is leaving his position as co-GM of the San Diego Clippers and will be becoming a panelist after an amicable separation from San Diego over creative differences.

Have fun. PM me trades if you make them. Remember I need them from both parties. I will only be on intermittently so please be patient with my confirming the trades, or if Roy is around is willing and doesn't mind confirming the trade, I am fine with that as his judgment on these things is pretty excellent.

If you want they can also send trades to me and ill confirm as long as i get confirmation from both teams

[nickagneta]

Front page updated.

ronaldo943 is leaving his position as co-GM of the San Diego Clippers and will be becoming a panelist after an amicable separation from San Diego over creative differences.

Have fun. PM me trades if you make them. Remember I need them from both parties. I will only be on intermittently so please be patient with my confirming the trades, or if Roy is around is willing and doesn't mind confirming the trade, I am fine with that as his judgment on these things is pretty excellent.

If you want they can also send trades to me and ill confirm as long as i get confirmation from both teams

Just trying to keep it simple for now ronaldo but I appreciate the offer, just the same. let's keep it at send trades my way. Only if you don't see a confirmation after an extended period, see if Roy is available and would be willing to confirm as I really haven't brought this up to him yet, but knowing Roy, he will be okay with it.

[GreenFaith1819]

I find it a bit...."odd" for the Bill Walton comments.

For me, I had him easily among the top 3 Bigs - in "this" format. We must remember that this draft is not wide open like previous drafts...there won't be many (if any) HOF-caliber bigs like Walton, and perhaps NONE with his vast skill set.

His numbers may not wow you like Moses or Kareem, but check out those assists...he thrived with Ball Movement when it was needed.

Just his 76-77 Playoff numbers alone:

18.2 pts, 15.2 rebs, 5.5 ASSISTS, 1.1 steals, 3.4 BLOCKS....all culminating in a Championship year and Finals MVP.

In "This" format, it best served me to grab the best Big available, and while I went back and forth with Moses I eventually went with Walton due to his all-around skill....that alone will serve the team I put around him well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVVoU4_iDfo

And while Magic was the best "overall player" available during my pick, he wasn't the best "Big"...I had Walton in that regard.

As we progress through the draft, I will watch with much interest as we try to put some players around the ones picked this round. Some players...perhaps...only played well or put up the numbers they did because of players around them, based on history.

I figured that Bill Walton would do well in this format...in a wide open Historical Draft, he'd go a little later, but here?

I had him as a top 3 Big, no question. Could not pass on him...he's a very under-rated defender, too.

Glad to build my team around him. And in this fantasy format, he's healthy. I'll take that 76-77 year and toss the others out.

Even in his "healthy" year he still missed almost 21% of the regular season.  You see that is the problem with Walton.  He was never healthy.  You also get fairly similar production from a guy like Dave Cowens. 

With Magic Johnson on the board (and Bird and Kareem gone) you had to take Magic.  I really can't see the logic of any other player in that spot.

Then tell me what quality Big are you going to place next to Erving?

And I don't think that injuries are going to play a factor in the Panelists, voting....they haven't in the past, and I'd be a bit shocked if they do now.

[GreenFaith1819]

I certainly hope we aren't going down the road of judging each others rosters THIS early.

A case can be made against every player that was picked so far.

Seems as if some here have drawn first blood on Walton.

I don't desire to draw blood on Kareem, Magic's, Larry's, etc - shortcomings.

In judging people's rosters this early, spread the love, so to speak.

[ronaldo943]

I find it a bit...."odd" for the Bill Walton comments.

For me, I had him easily among the top 3 Bigs - in "this" format. We must remember that this draft is not wide open like previous drafts...there won't be many (if any) HOF-caliber bigs like Walton, and perhaps NONE with his vast skill set.

His numbers may not wow you like Moses or Kareem, but check out those assists...he thrived with Ball Movement when it was needed.

Just his 76-77 Playoff numbers alone:

18.2 pts, 15.2 rebs, 5.5 ASSISTS, 1.1 steals, 3.4 BLOCKS....all culminating in a Championship year and Finals MVP.

In "This" format, it best served me to grab the best Big available, and while I went back and forth with Moses I eventually went with Walton due to his all-around skill....that alone will serve the team I put around him well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVVoU4_iDfo

And while Magic was the best "overall player" available during my pick, he wasn't the best "Big"...I had Walton in that regard.

As we progress through the draft, I will watch with much interest as we try to put some players around the ones picked this round. Some players...perhaps...only played well or put up the numbers they did because of players around them, based on history.

I figured that Bill Walton would do well in this format...in a wide open Historical Draft, he'd go a little later, but here?

I had him as a top 3 Big, no question. Could not pass on him...he's a very under-rated defender, too.

Glad to build my team around him. And in this fantasy format, he's healthy. I'll take that 76-77 year and toss the others out.

Even in his "healthy" year he still missed almost 21% of the regular season.  You see that is the problem with Walton.  He was never healthy.  You also get fairly similar production from a guy like Dave Cowens. 

With Magic Johnson on the board (and Bird and Kareem gone) you had to take Magic.  I really can't see the logic of any other player in that spot.

Then tell me what quality Big are you going to place next to Erving?

And I don't think that injuries are going to play a factor in the Panelists, voting....they haven't in the past, and I'd be a bit shocked if they do now.

Maybe its just me but i think there is a surplus amount of quality bigs (double-double guys)

[ronaldo943]

I certainly hope we aren't going down the road of judging each others rosters THIS early.

A case can be made against every player that was picked so far.

Seems as if some here have drawn first blood on Walton.

I don't desire to draw blood on Kareem, Magic's, Larry's, etc - shortcomings.

In judging people's rosters this early, spread the love, so to speak.

I like the Walton pick when healthy:
18.6 pts 14.4 rebs 3.2 blks 3.8 assts 1 stl

[RebusRankin]

Hey, I can honestly say AB and I hoped Walton would drop to 12 so we liked him.

Pretty sure we've settled on who will be taken at 2.1. All I can say is it's a he and he was fantastic.

[Moranis]

I find it a bit...."odd" for the Bill Walton comments.

For me, I had him easily among the top 3 Bigs - in "this" format. We must remember that this draft is not wide open like previous drafts...there won't be many (if any) HOF-caliber bigs like Walton, and perhaps NONE with his vast skill set.

His numbers may not wow you like Moses or Kareem, but check out those assists...he thrived with Ball Movement when it was needed.

Just his 76-77 Playoff numbers alone:

18.2 pts, 15.2 rebs, 5.5 ASSISTS, 1.1 steals, 3.4 BLOCKS....all culminating in a Championship year and Finals MVP.

In "This" format, it best served me to grab the best Big available, and while I went back and forth with Moses I eventually went with Walton due to his all-around skill....that alone will serve the team I put around him well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVVoU4_iDfo

And while Magic was the best "overall player" available during my pick, he wasn't the best "Big"...I had Walton in that regard.

As we progress through the draft, I will watch with much interest as we try to put some players around the ones picked this round. Some players...perhaps...only played well or put up the numbers they did because of players around them, based on history.

I figured that Bill Walton would do well in this format...in a wide open Historical Draft, he'd go a little later, but here?

I had him as a top 3 Big, no question. Could not pass on him...he's a very under-rated defender, too.

Glad to build my team around him. And in this fantasy format, he's healthy. I'll take that 76-77 year and toss the others out.

Even in his "healthy" year he still missed almost 21% of the regular season.  You see that is the problem with Walton.  He was never healthy.  You also get fairly similar production from a guy like Dave Cowens. 

With Magic Johnson on the board (and Bird and Kareem gone) you had to take Magic.  I really can't see the logic of any other player in that spot.

Then tell me what quality Big are you going to place next to Erving?

And I don't think that injuries are going to play a factor in the Panelists, voting....they haven't in the past, and I'd be a bit shocked if they do now.

There are plenty of guys out there that will produce at the center spot.  For obvious reasons I am not going to list them here.

Injuries have always been factored in in these things it is just that most guys used have at least a 70 game season.  To do that with Walton you really cut out his productivity so you have to go with the 65 or 58 game season, and I believe that will definitely factor in as Walton will miss 1 out of every 5 games.  At least that is my thought.

[KCattheStripe]

Hey, I can honestly say AB and I hoped Walton would drop to 12 so we liked him.

Pretty sure we've settled on who will be taken at 2.1. All I can say is it's a he and he was fantastic.

Canadien mind games.

[RebusRankin]

Hey, I can honestly say AB and I hoped Walton would drop to 12 so we liked him.

Pretty sure we've settled on who will be taken at 2.1. All I can say is it's a he and he was fantastic.

Canadien mind games.

I don't know what the Gretzky you're talking about eh. I'm going to just chill now and listen to some Robin Daggers.

[Roy H.]

And I don't think that injuries are going to play a factor in the Panelists, voting....they haven't in the past, and I'd be a bit shocked if they do now.

I think historically, injuries get factored in.  Usually in these drafts there's enough depth so that one guy's injuries don't sink a team, but I think they're a factor.