Larry Bird on Shooting...

[Roy Hobbs]

Larry gives his thoughts on three-point shooting, free throws, etc. here.

Some highlights:

"Yeah, it's all they talk about,'' he said of his ability from the three-point line. "Everybody looks at me as a three-point shooter, but I didn't shoot a lot of them.'' . . .

"I felt like the game is won down in the paint,'' Bird said. "I didn't shoot them until the end of the game. If I shot one early, it was probably on the road.'' . . .

I think everything's got to be in the flow of the game, no matter where you shoot it from. My whole game was a mid-range type of thing, off-balance shots around the post and coming off picks, fading away. That's the way I was taught to play. But there's a lot of guys in this league who have fallen in love with that three-point line.'' . . .

"They might show some [highlights] at the end of the game I hit to win games or tie it up,'' he said. "But I was never really a three-point shooter, and I never wanted to be known as a three-point shooter.''

"You always see guys dribble, bend way down, go up, then start moving their arms back, then shoot,'' Bird said. "I think it all should be one motion. It should be started in the center of your body and go from there up through. Keep it as simple as you possibly can. . . .

"It's completely different than a jump shot. When you're in a game, you might be shooting this way [to the side], you might be shooting back, you might be shooting forward -- and it all comes from your legs. Whereas in a free throw, it's get yourself set up and through.''

He also thinks more kids should practice shooting free throws underhand.  Good stuff from the Legend.

[huzy]

Interesting point regarding shooting free throws underhand…I’ve never heard or considered that.

I’ve coached travel ball at different levels for several years and I’ve always taught BEEF (Balance, Elbow, Extension, Follow Through) with the emphasis on B and T.

There was an interesting point that David Thorpe on ESPN made about emphasizing follow through for a jump shooter rather than following the shot. I think it was in reference to Luol Deng sacrificing offensive rebounds to further emphasize finishing his shots. Hold the “goose neck” so to speak.

Interesting stuff though. Bird fundamentally had a difficult shooting style to teach to youngsters, more shooting above his ears rather than off the strong the shoulder…

Love these fundamental discussions though! Thanks, Roy….

[CelticsWhat35]

I thought the two "E"s in "BEEF" were "elbow" and "eyes".  That's how I was taught it.

[Curley]

huzy, if you are coaching traveling basketball and teaching BEEF ... I would suggest doing it correctly Balance,EYES, Elbow, Follow Through ...  EDIT: Looks like CelticsWhat35 took care of this for me

[Hoosier]

Seems like i remember someone trying to talk shaq into shooting free throws underhanded. 

[cordobes]

It's scientifically proved that the underhanded free-throw shooting increases the accuracy. This article does a good job explaining why:
http://discovermagazine.com/2008/the-body/07-physics-proves-it-everyone-should-shoot-granny-style

but I strongly recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Sport-Science-Physical-Optimum-Performance/dp/0671554387

Great reading indeed. And this is so true: "It's funny how a few enduring highlights have skewed the reputation of one of the league's great players.".

I also agree with huzy that Bird's shooting motion is difficult to teach. I remember a coach of mine showing us some Red demonstration videos featuring Bird and saying "but just don't shoot like him".

[Fan from VT]

On free throw shooting:

I read "Andy Roddick Beat Me With A Frying Pan" by TOdd Gallagher, and there was one chapter about Free Throw shooting, and whether or not an average joe could beat an average NBA player in a free throw contest with just a couple months practice. Something like that, anyway. According to the shooting coach working with the average joe, if a player in the NBA is shooting under 80%, make all the excuses you want, but it means he is either not really working at it or getting bad instruction.

[Greenbean]

That is an interesting read. It makes me think of something I have been wondering about for a while. Do the celts currently employ a shooting coach? I believe that shooting is something that can be taught with a combination of insane repetition. We have enough shooting projects on this roster to warrant bringing in someone to  coach shooting and nothing else. I know I cringe everytime I see Rajon's elbow fly out on free throws and any jump shot where he's not in rythym. He needs someone always in his ear about form. Clifford Ray is a big man coach, he spends ALL of his energy teaching the bigs, well, how to play big. We need a shooting coach. If we have one already, I am sorry I couldn't find it.

[bdm860]

"They might show some [highlights] at the end of the game I hit to win games or tie it up,'' he said. "But I was never really a three-point shooter, and I never wanted to be known as a three-point shooter.''

Great reading indeed. And this is so true: "It's funny how a few enduring highlights have skewed the reputation of one of the league's great players.".

Maybe it's the highlights OR MAYBE it's the 3 straight 3-point shootouts he won, and the trash he talked during them like when he looked around the locker room and said ""I want all of you to know I am winning this thing. I'm just looking around to see who's gonna finish up second."

Or maybe Larry just has selective memory

Here is where Larry finished in total 3 pointers attempted each season
79-80 Bird finished 6th
80-81 Bird finished 11th
81-82 Bird finished 26th
82-83 Bird finished 7th
83-84 Bird finished 10th
84-85 Bird finished 8th
85-86 Bird finished 1st
86-87 Bird finished 5th
87-88 Bird finished 4th
88-89 Bird did not place, played only played 6 games
89-90 Bird finished 20th
90-91 Bird finished 17th
91-91 Bird finished 40th, in only 45 games!

So 7 top 10 finishes in 3-point attempts 12 years.  Ya so maybe it's the highlights or maybe Bird is remembering wrong here.

[furball]

"They might show some [highlights] at the end of the game I hit to win games or tie it up,'' he said. "But I was never really a three-point shooter, and I never wanted to be known as a three-point shooter.''

Great reading indeed. And this is so true: "It's funny how a few enduring highlights have skewed the reputation of one of the league's great players.".

Maybe it's the highlights OR MAYBE it's the 3 straight 3-point shootouts he won, and the trash he talked during them like when he looked around the locker room and said ""I want all of you to know I am winning this thing. I'm just looking around to see who's gonna finish up second."

Or maybe Larry just has selective memory

Here is where Larry finished in total 3 pointers attempted each season
79-80 Bird finished 6th
80-81 Bird finished 11th
81-82 Bird finished 26th
82-83 Bird finished 7th
83-84 Bird finished 10th
84-85 Bird finished 8th
85-86 Bird finished 1st
86-87 Bird finished 5th
87-88 Bird finished 4th
88-89 Bird did not place, played only played 6 games
89-90 Bird finished 20th
90-91 Bird finished 17th
91-91 Bird finished 40th, in only 45 games!

So 7 top 10 finishes in 3-point attempts 12 years.  Ya so maybe it's the highlights or maybe Bird is remembering wrong here.

The problem is his stats compared to players nowadays.  Back then players didn't shoot the three nearly as often.  Lokk at it this wy.  The most three Bird ever attempted in one season is 237.  Ray allen already has 373 this season.  Eddie house has 251.  It was a different mind set back then when it cam to threes.  So while he was one of the tops in the league, he doesn't come close to guys today.  From 80-81 through 84-85 Bird didn't break 80 attempts.  Ray Allen averages 435 a season for his career. 

[cordobes]

"They might show some [highlights] at the end of the game I hit to win games or tie it up,'' he said. "But I was never really a three-point shooter, and I never wanted to be known as a three-point shooter.''

Great reading indeed. And this is so true: "It's funny how a few enduring highlights have skewed the reputation of one of the league's great players.".

Maybe it's the highlights OR MAYBE it's the 3 straight 3-point shootouts he won, and the trash he talked during them like when he looked around the locker room and said ""I want all of you to know I am winning this thing. I'm just looking around to see who's gonna finish up second."

Or maybe Larry just has selective memory

Here is where Larry finished in total 3 pointers attempted each season
79-80 Bird finished 6th
80-81 Bird finished 11th
81-82 Bird finished 26th
82-83 Bird finished 7th
83-84 Bird finished 10th
84-85 Bird finished 8th
85-86 Bird finished 1st
86-87 Bird finished 5th
87-88 Bird finished 4th
88-89 Bird did not place, played only played 6 games
89-90 Bird finished 20th
90-91 Bird finished 17th
91-91 Bird finished 40th, in only 45 games!

So 7 top 10 finishes in 3-point attempts 12 years.  Ya so maybe it's the highlights or maybe Bird is remembering wrong here.

I don't think that's a good metric. The 3pta/FGA ratio is a much better one. Bird had a very diversified offensive arsenal and wasn't much reliant on the long-range shooting. Nowadays one can find younger fans talking about him as he was a super-Jason Kapono or something and that's bizarre. He wasn't even a Reggie Miller.

For example, less than 10% of Bird's FG attempts were triples. For Pierce, that number jumps to 27%. Kobe, 20%. LeBron, 19%. Yet, I don't see Pierce or Kobe or James being describe as outside shooters. Bird was much closer to Michael Jordan (7%) than to those guys.

[bdm860]

"They might show some [highlights] at the end of the game I hit to win games or tie it up,'' he said. "But I was never really a three-point shooter, and I never wanted to be known as a three-point shooter.''

Great reading indeed. And this is so true: "It's funny how a few enduring highlights have skewed the reputation of one of the league's great players.".

Maybe it's the highlights OR MAYBE it's the 3 straight 3-point shootouts he won, and the trash he talked during them like when he looked around the locker room and said ""I want all of you to know I am winning this thing. I'm just looking around to see who's gonna finish up second."

Or maybe Larry just has selective memory

Here is where Larry finished in total 3 pointers attempted each season
79-80 Bird finished 6th
80-81 Bird finished 11th
81-82 Bird finished 26th
82-83 Bird finished 7th
83-84 Bird finished 10th
84-85 Bird finished 8th
85-86 Bird finished 1st
86-87 Bird finished 5th
87-88 Bird finished 4th
88-89 Bird did not place, played only played 6 games
89-90 Bird finished 20th
90-91 Bird finished 17th
91-91 Bird finished 40th, in only 45 games!

So 7 top 10 finishes in 3-point attempts 12 years.  Ya so maybe it's the highlights or maybe Bird is remembering wrong here.

The problem is his stats compared to players nowadays.  Back then players didn't shoot the three nearly as often.  Lokk at it this wy.  The most three Bird ever attempted in one season is 237.  Ray allen already has 373 this season.  Eddie house has 251.  It was a different mind set back then when it cam to threes.  So while he was one of the tops in the league, he doesn't come close to guys today.  From 80-81 through 84-85 Bird didn't break 80 attempts.  Ray Allen averages 435 a season for his career. 

No doubt it's a different game today, but when you lead the league in three point attempts, guess what, you're shooting alot of threes compared to the players you're playing with.  Why do we remeber Bird as a 3 point shooter?  Because he was shooting more 3's during his time than anybody else!  And if Bird was playing in today's NBA he'd probably be among the leaders now with like 400-500.

If Bird said I wouldn't be known as a 3 point shooter in today's NBA that would be one thing, but to say "I was never really a three-point shooter, and I never wanted to be known as a three-point shooter" is ridiculous.  Lead the league in 3 point attempts, talk trash about your 3 point skills, and win 3 straight 3-point shout outs.  Right Larry, sure.

[furball]

"They might show some [highlights] at the end of the game I hit to win games or tie it up,'' he said. "But I was never really a three-point shooter, and I never wanted to be known as a three-point shooter.''

Great reading indeed. And this is so true: "It's funny how a few enduring highlights have skewed the reputation of one of the league's great players.".

Maybe it's the highlights OR MAYBE it's the 3 straight 3-point shootouts he won, and the trash he talked during them like when he looked around the locker room and said ""I want all of you to know I am winning this thing. I'm just looking around to see who's gonna finish up second."

Or maybe Larry just has selective memory

Here is where Larry finished in total 3 pointers attempted each season
79-80 Bird finished 6th
80-81 Bird finished 11th
81-82 Bird finished 26th
82-83 Bird finished 7th
83-84 Bird finished 10th
84-85 Bird finished 8th
85-86 Bird finished 1st
86-87 Bird finished 5th
87-88 Bird finished 4th
88-89 Bird did not place, played only played 6 games
89-90 Bird finished 20th
90-91 Bird finished 17th
91-91 Bird finished 40th, in only 45 games!

So 7 top 10 finishes in 3-point attempts 12 years.  Ya so maybe it's the highlights or maybe Bird is remembering wrong here.

The problem is his stats compared to players nowadays.  Back then players didn't shoot the three nearly as often.  Lokk at it this wy.  The most three Bird ever attempted in one season is 237.  Ray allen already has 373 this season.  Eddie house has 251.  It was a different mind set back then when it cam to threes.  So while he was one of the tops in the league, he doesn't come close to guys today.  From 80-81 through 84-85 Bird didn't break 80 attempts.  Ray Allen averages 435 a season for his career. 

No doubt it's a different game today, but when you lead the league in three point attempts, guess what, you're shooting alot of threes compared to the players you're playing with.  Why do we remeber Bird as a 3 point shooter?  Because he was shooting more 3's during his time than anybody else!  And if Bird was playing in today's NBA he'd probably be among the leaders now with like 400-500.

If Bird said I wouldn't be known as a 3 point shooter in today's NBA that would be one thing, but to say "I was never really a three-point shooter, and I never wanted to be known as a three-point shooter" is ridiculous.  Lead the league in 3 point attempts, talk trash about your 3 point skills, and win 3 straight 3-point shout outs.  Right Larry, sure.

He never said he wasn't good at it.  He said he didn't shoot them alot. Barely taking one a game isn't alot, no matter how many other people are taking. And there were players who took a lot more of them in those years (except the one where he led the league obviously).  Hell, the year he took his most Danny Ainge took over 100 more then he did. 

cordobes makes a great point, it's about percentages.  He hardly took any threes (10% according to cordobes).  He's not complaing thst people think he was a good three point shooter, he complaining that he's known as a three point shooter.  Like Eddie house is.  I.e. he just bombed away from three land ala Antione Walker.   

[TheReaLPuba]

Bird was a premiere 3 point shooter in his generation.

There is no denying that. But he wasn't just a 3 point shooter. However, he was known for his 3 point shooting prowess because he was a big man who took a lot of 3 pointers in that era.

Bird would love to have you believe he would rather be known as a great free throw shooter but he didn't even shoot 90% in his career. Which is kinda disappointing but you can't be great at everything.

Bird is right about his mid-range game. That's where most of his offense came from and down in the paint and on the block. Bird scored from every where but it was his ability to hit the 3 point shot that made him stretch the floor and be able to command more double teams and open the passing lanes for his teammates.

[RebusRankin]

He shoot something like 88.5% from the line. That's pretty darn good. Heck he's top 10 all time.