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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 25, 2018, 09:57:18 AM

Title: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 25, 2018, 09:57:18 AM
It's really happened during much of the playoffs, but it has been way worse against Cleveland.

Not only have the Cs been picked against each series, but the excuses mount up when they have won.

The Bucks didn't have a good coach.
The Sixers lost the game more than the Celtics won the game.
The Sixers are young.
Lebron is tired.
If any of the Cavs supporting cast shows up, it won't be a game.
The Celtics can only win at home.
There are more ...

At some point the narrative will change. If they were able to win the finals, or at least a few games, the narrative would be about injuries. There are already seeds of the narrative about "Western attrition" which could easily turn into excuses why the Warriors/Rockets could lose.

It just gets old. It's not sexy to talk about positional help defense or a balanced team offense. It's easier to talk about Giannis, or Simmons, or Emiid, or Lebron, or etc. It's easier to talk about blocks and 30 point games. It gets more clicks to talk about Lebron's 40 point games than it would to talk about how 6-7 Celtics score in double digits.

It would be fun to hear the talking heads have to stop making excuses for the Celtics opponents.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: iadera on May 25, 2018, 10:03:32 AM
Let them find their excuses...I don't mind, as long as we keep winning. If we manage to reach the NBA finals (we are very close) this team should be on every kind of C's legendary lists. Despite all the odds, they never stopped surprising us all year long.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: gift on May 25, 2018, 10:14:58 AM
Well, champions tend to be credited historically more than in the present moment. So the Celtics just need to win 5 more games and the excuse narratives will be forgotten as future generations see the Boston Celtics as 2018 Champions and forget hot takes of the day.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Donoghus on May 25, 2018, 10:20:55 AM
Wednesday night/Thursday morning bothered me where the narrative skewed much more towards "
Lebron is gassed" rather than "Celtics win all important Game 5. One win from NBA Finals". 

More like why the Cavs lost than how the Celtics won with the emphasis on Lebron.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: cltc5 on May 25, 2018, 10:25:11 AM
It’s disgusting to hear the media drool all over the cavs and lebron but that’s where the money is and the nba and media only care about the money.  Screw the integrity of the sport.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: fairweatherfan on May 25, 2018, 10:27:00 AM
LeBron is going to be the big story, both because of his fame but more fairly because he's come out of the East seven straight freaking times. He's also having one of the best individual playoff runs in recent history. Even if we win expect a lot of "where's LeBron going?!?!" takes instead of the afterthought of us in the Finals.

I've still seen a ton of praise for our team, both the players and Brad. Barkley was flat-out effusive after Game 1 or 2. But the transcendent superstar who's done it again and again is going to get the lion's share of attention. Good. Let our guys feel disrespected, and let em feel it again in the next round.

Wednesday night/Thursday morning bothered me where the narrative skewed much more towards "
Lebron is gassed" rather than "Celtics win all important Game 5. One win from NBA Finals". 

More like why the Cavs lost than how the Celtics won with the emphasis on Lebron.

I agree with this. The way to blend those narratives is to talk about how the scrappy young Celtics are dismantling LeBron and his Cavs and have pushed them to the brink. Ground the fatigue story in the deeper context of the series overall. Instead the discussion never seems to stray out of LeBron's person.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: celticinorlando on May 25, 2018, 10:36:59 AM
IF the C's eliminate the Cavs tonight or Sunday, Boston will get very little coverage...it will turn into where is james going? is it the last game in Cleveland?

It will be spun how the Cavs lost instead of why the Cs won.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: td450 on May 25, 2018, 10:41:36 AM
And if we do reach the finals and end up drawing Houston, I think we have a much better chance of taking the whole thing. If they squeak past GS, and Chris Paul has any hammy issues...
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: celticinorlando on May 25, 2018, 10:43:12 AM
And if we do reach the finals and end up drawing Houston, I think we have a much better chance of taking the whole thing. If the squeak past GS, and Chris Paul has any hammy issues...

Yep. Boston has the wings to handle them. Play better defense than GS. Would love to see Rockets get through but have Paul's injury just linger throughout the finals. Houston only plays 7 guys with Paul.

Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: PAOBoston on May 25, 2018, 10:45:50 AM
IF the C's eliminate the Cavs tonight or Sunday, Boston will get very little coverage...it will turn into where is james going? is it the last game in Cleveland?

It will be spun how the Cavs lost instead of why the Cs won.
Been the story so far these playoffs. Who cares? At some point the narrative will change. It will have to if they play HOU or GS and make it competitive. Then it will be, "Would Cs have won it all if Kyrie and/or Hayward were healthy. "
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: nickagneta on May 25, 2018, 10:54:09 AM
Wednesday night/Thursday morning bothered me where the narrative skewed much more towards "
Lebron is gassed" rather than "Celtics win all important Game 5. One win from NBA Finals". 

More like why the Cavs lost than how the Celtics won with the emphasis on Lebron.
This bothered me too. No one wanted to discuss that a rookie put up 24 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 steals and 2 blocks and outplayed Lebron in the biggest game of either team's season.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Pucaccia on May 25, 2018, 10:58:55 AM
It's really happened during much of the playoffs, but it has been way worse against Cleveland.

Not only have the Cs been picked against each series, but the excuses mount up when they have won.

The Bucks didn't have a good coach.
The Sixers lost the game more than the Celtics won the game.
The Sixers are young.
Lebron is tired.
If any of the Cavs supporting cast shows up, it won't be a game.
The Celtics can only win at home.
There are more ...

At some point the narrative will change. If they were able to win the finals, or at least a few games, the narrative would be about injuries. There are already seeds of the narrative about "Western attrition" which could easily turn into excuses why the Warriors/Rockets could lose.

It just gets old. It's not sexy to talk about positional help defense or a balanced team offense. It's easier to talk about Giannis, or Simmons, or Emiid, or Lebron, or etc. It's easier to talk about blocks and 30 point games. It gets more clicks to talk about Lebron's 40 point games than it would to talk about how 6-7 Celtics score in double digits.

It would be fun to hear the talking heads have to stop making excuses for the Celtics opponents.

Absolutely...great post.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on May 25, 2018, 11:14:45 AM
I understand the frustration, but hopefully the Cs use it as fuel.

There are always going to be "alternative storylines" that people can focus on. If the Cs get to the Finals against a Paul-less Rockets team and win, some people will attribute that to the Rockets missing Paul; if the Cs lose, it'll be about how awesome the Rockets are to overcome the loss of Paul. Likewise, if the Cs get to face the Warriors and win, it'll probably be because Curry's hobbled or Iggy's hobbled or some such thing; and it the Cs lose, we'll have to go through yet another offseason hearing about how wonderful the Warriors are.

But if Boston somehow manages to win No. 18 this season, all this stuff will be irrelevant to me—it's not as if Boston will have had a cakewalk to the title, what with missing its two best players and having to go through so many media darlings (Giannis, Embiid, Simmons, LeBron, Harden/Durant, Curry).
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: PhoSita on May 25, 2018, 11:22:00 AM
If the Celts make the Finals, especially if the Rockets sans Chris Paul also somehow make the Finals, I guarantee you that the number one thing we'll hear is "Man, what a boring matchup.  When's the draft?  This off-season is going to be super exciting!"


The factors at play here are:

- Boston fatigue; people resent / despise Boston
- Distaste that people have for a coach that gets as much or more credit as his players
- Marquee star of the team is Al Horford, a guy people find boring in a Duncan sorta way
- Celts are missing their best players so the instinct is to assume their opponents have choked
- The Celts are a great defensive team that is decent at best on offense.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Donoghus on May 25, 2018, 11:25:26 AM
If the Celts make the Finals, especially if the Rockets sans Chris Paul also somehow make the Finals, I guarantee you that the number one thing we'll hear is "Man, what a boring matchup.  When's the draft?  This off-season is going to be super exciting!"


The factors at play here are:

- Boston fatigue; people resent / despise Boston
- Distaste that people have for a coach that gets as much or more credit as his players
- Marquee star of the team is Al Horford, a guy people find boring in a Duncan sorta way
- Celts are missing their best players so the instinct is to assume their opponents have choked
- The Celts are a great defensive team that is decent at best on offense.

At least we'll get plenty of '81/'86 Finals retrospectives.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Spilling Green Dye on May 25, 2018, 11:27:55 AM
The worst I heard was on The Ringer's recent NBA podcast with Chris Ryan, Kevin O'Connor, etc. just yesterday.  They opened with "what would have happened if the Thunder were in the East?" and basically came to the insanely stupid conclusion that the Thunder would have beaten the Celtics.  And I hope KOC reads this post. 

These are the same people who all picked the Sixers to beat the Celtics in 5 or 6 games because the Sixers were "the best team in the East".  But after the fact it was that the Bucks or Sixers lost.  And now it's that Lebron is tired from too many games and his supporting cast is "trash".  Sorry, but Kevin Love was an all-star, they have plenty of other good (and high priced) players, and were considered Eastern conference favorites opening the season.

How would the Thunder have fared against the Raptors?  Probably not very well... and the Raptors were SWEPT by the Cavs.  "Lebron beat the Raptors" was the headline, not that the Raptors were better but lost it.  The Celtics have won 3 games against that same Cavs team.

How about this Chris Ryan & KOC - The Celtics were 22 and 8 against the Western Conference during the regular season, a 73% win rate.  The Thunder were 28 and 24, 54%.  There's your regular season answer.  And in the post-season the Celtics have been even better.



Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: johnnygreen on May 25, 2018, 11:40:05 AM
I found this especially frustrating after game 5. I was flipping around to hear about the national perspective of how the Celtics beat the Cavs. Instead, it was all about LeBron. Yes, I understand LeBron has gone to an amazing 7 straight finals. However, the story line needs to shift to what are/did the Celtics do that other teams couldn't figure out against a LeBron lead team.

I also don't want to hear about LeBron being tired. The next lame excuse we'll hear is LeBron not showing up to training camp because he has a family and other business interest.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: PhoSita on May 25, 2018, 11:45:20 AM
The worst I heard was on The Ringer's recent NBA podcast with Chris Ryan, Kevin O'Connor, etc. just yesterday.  They opened with "what would have happened if the Thunder were in the East?" and basically came to the insanely stupid conclusion that the Thunder would have beaten the Celtics.  And I hope KOC reads this post. 


That sort of inane BS is why I can't even listen to The Ringer NBA podcast.

The Thunder were an awful team that never figured out how to play together.  They would have lost to the Sixers, Pacers, or Raptors, let alone the Celts.

I appreciate KOC's writing and analysis but I don't like him at all on podcasts.  It feels to me like he tries too hard to sound like "one of the guys."

As for Chris Ryan, he seems intelligent but seems to prefer to just engage in hot-take-ism and signal which teams he likes and does not like. 

I would say one of the biggest weaknesses of The Ringer, generally, is that too many of the younger talent try to be like the guy that hired them, instead of developing their own style.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Jvalin on May 25, 2018, 11:51:07 AM
I'm sick and tired of the mainstream media. It's all about promoting their agenda. The more important the issue, the less I trust the media that they are telling the truth.

Having said that, basketball is just a game. At the end of the day, no matter what they say it's no big deal.

If anything, I'm glad that Smart (in particular) isn't getting the praise he deserves. Hopefully we'll re-sign him on the cheap this summer.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: johnnygreen on May 25, 2018, 11:54:29 AM
How about this Chris Ryan & KOC - The Celtics were 22 and 8 against the Western Conference during the regular season, a 73% win rate.  The Thunder were 28 and 24, 54%.  There's your regular season answer.  And in the post-season the Celtics have been even better.

OKC was actually 20-10 against the Eastern conference, including going 0-2 against Boston.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Fafnir on May 25, 2018, 11:57:21 AM
I think the C's have gotten a lot of praise, but also they're expected to fail on the road again and then its game 7 and overall LBJ is expected to win that as he's the best player.

I just don't see the grievance. LBJ is always the biggest story along with the Warriors, just how it is with the best player and the best team. Until they aren't the best or are knocked out that is.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Fafnir on May 25, 2018, 11:58:00 AM
Wednesday night/Thursday morning bothered me where the narrative skewed much more towards "
Lebron is gassed" rather than "Celtics win all important Game 5. One win from NBA Finals". 

More like why the Cavs lost than how the Celtics won with the emphasis on Lebron.
This bothered me too. No one wanted to discuss that a rookie put up 24 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 steals and 2 blocks and outplayed Lebron in the biggest game of either team's season.
It was though.

I know in the ringer podcast they said he was the best player on the floor in game 5.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: nickagneta on May 25, 2018, 12:03:41 PM
Wednesday night/Thursday morning bothered me where the narrative skewed much more towards "
Lebron is gassed" rather than "Celtics win all important Game 5. One win from NBA Finals". 

More like why the Cavs lost than how the Celtics won with the emphasis on Lebron.
This bothered me too. No one wanted to discuss that a rookie put up 24 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 steals and 2 blocks and outplayed Lebron in the biggest game of either team's season.
It was though.

I know in the ringer podcast they said he was the best player on the floor in game 5.
I don't go to the Ringer. I just browsed the morning tv talking heads on Fox Sports and ESPN then went to ESPN.com and saw nothing there. I am not a podcast person.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: gift on May 25, 2018, 12:12:17 PM
The worst I heard was on The Ringer's recent NBA podcast with Chris Ryan, Kevin O'Connor, etc. just yesterday.  They opened with "what would have happened if the Thunder were in the East?" and basically came to the insanely stupid conclusion that the Thunder would have beaten the Celtics.  And I hope KOC reads this post. 

These are the same people who all picked the Sixers to beat the Celtics in 5 or 6 games because the Sixers were "the best team in the East".  But after the fact it was that the Bucks or Sixers lost.  And now it's that Lebron is tired from too many games and his supporting cast is "trash".  Sorry, but Kevin Love was an all-star, they have plenty of other good (and high priced) players, and were considered Eastern conference favorites opening the season.

How would the Thunder have fared against the Raptors?  Probably not very well... and the Raptors were SWEPT by the Cavs.  "Lebron beat the Raptors" was the headline, not that the Raptors were better but lost it.  The Celtics have won 3 games against that same Cavs team.

How about this Chris Ryan & KOC - The Celtics were 22 and 8 against the Western Conference during the regular season, a 73% win rate.  The Thunder were 28 and 24, 54%.  There's your regular season answer.  And in the post-season the Celtics have been even better.

Yep. Hard to believe people who cover the sport get caught up in the illusion that can be created by recent matchups.

Everyone was hyping Philly and then they lose in 5 to Boston. At the start of the playoffs Toronto and Cleveland were good teams. Then Cleveland struggled against Indiana... not so good. They swept Toronto. They're great and favored against Boston, Toronto sucks suddenly. Boston wins the first two games against Cleveland and then it's that there's no good teams in the East again.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: PhoSita on May 25, 2018, 12:16:52 PM
I think the C's have gotten a lot of praise, but also they're expected to fail on the road again and then its game 7 and overall LBJ is expected to win that as he's the best player.

I just don't see the grievance. LBJ is always the biggest story along with the Warriors, just how it is with the best player and the best team. Until they aren't the best or are knocked out that is.

I think there's some grievance when the only article I saw on The Ringer website after the Game 5 win was "The Celtics Making The Finals Is The Worst Outcome" and the article itself was very shallow and basically amounted to "I resent Boston sports."
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: footey on May 25, 2018, 12:21:36 PM
IF the C's eliminate the Cavs tonight or Sunday, Boston will get very little coverage...it will turn into where is james going? is it the last game in Cleveland?

It will be spun how the Cavs lost instead of why the Cs won.

Or "Lebron knew he didn't have good enough team to beat GSW/Rockets, so lost interest."
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: footey on May 25, 2018, 12:24:57 PM
It's really happened during much of the playoffs, but it has been way worse against Cleveland.

Not only have the Cs been picked against each series, but the excuses mount up when they have won.

The Bucks didn't have a good coach.
The Sixers lost the game more than the Celtics won the game.
The Sixers are young.
Lebron is tired.
If any of the Cavs supporting cast shows up, it won't be a game.
The Celtics can only win at home.
There are more ...

At some point the narrative will change. If they were able to win the finals, or at least a few games, the narrative would be about injuries. There are already seeds of the narrative about "Western attrition" which could easily turn into excuses why the Warriors/Rockets could lose.

It just gets old. It's not sexy to talk about positional help defense or a balanced team offense. It's easier to talk about Giannis, or Simmons, or Emiid, or Lebron, or etc. It's easier to talk about blocks and 30 point games. It gets more clicks to talk about Lebron's 40 point games than it would to talk about how 6-7 Celtics score in double digits.

It would be fun to hear the talking heads have to stop making excuses for the Celtics opponents.

I actually love the disrespect.

It motivates me as a fan. Love debating the doubters. Look at all the so called fans who picked against us vs. Milwaukee, and then Philly. I won't mention CLE, because we haven't won any thing yet.

And, more importantly, it motivates our team.  They must love having the big chip on their shoulder created by all these doubts in the press.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: PhoSita on May 25, 2018, 12:26:57 PM
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/5/25/17393842/brad-stevens-celtics-basketball-coach-genius

Paul Flannery is doing good writing about the Celts.  Always worth a read.

Chad Finn is good too, although he's a hometown guy.

He had a nice line yesterday about how Ty Lue is "at least a C short of a clue."
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 25, 2018, 01:03:00 PM
What spurred this post was listening to the Ringer podcast, which I have generally enjoyed.

They dismissed the Cs off-hand against either the Rockets or Warriors. With how both are playing right now, it just seemed disrespectful.

Then yesterday, I was listening to Cowherd, who I generally like (even when he says dumb stuff he says it in a new insightful way), who dismissed the Cs again.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: footey on May 25, 2018, 01:14:17 PM
What spurred this post was listening to the Ringer podcast, which I have generally enjoyed.

They dismissed the Cs off-hand against either the Rockets or Warriors. With how both are playing right now, it just seemed disrespectful.

Then yesterday, I was listening to Cowherd, who I generally like (even when he says dumb stuff he says it in a new insightful way), who dismissed the Cs again.

What gets me is these guys don't admit their prior underassessments of this team; they chalk it up to other factors (injury, bad coaching, etc.).  I can't wait for us to keep showing them how stupid they are.

Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: smokeablount on May 25, 2018, 01:15:54 PM
Screw the media.  They're idiots, it p---es me off too, but then I wonder why I listen to them at all.

The most annoying thing to me is how our last 2 wins against the Cavs, to go up 2-0 and 3-2, the ECF did not lead off ESPN's NBA: The Jump despite being the only game that was played. 

But of course, when the Cavs won games 3 and 4, the ECF led the show off.  It's a subtle dig, but it's unmistakable, it's not subjective or debatable, and it hasn't happened to any other final 4 teams even a single time that I've streamed the show. 

National media = losers.  Keep embarrassing yourselves with your flimsy mental midgetry in front of millions of viewers, us Celtics fans are 1 win away from being above it all.  LET'S GO!
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 25, 2018, 01:27:12 PM
I think most human beings, given the choice between "I was wrong" and "that was just a fluke," will prefer the latter explanation for what's happened.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: johnnygreen on May 25, 2018, 01:33:01 PM
Screw the media.  They're idiots, it p---es me off too, but then I wonder why I listen to them at all.

The most annoying thing to me is how our last 2 wins against the Cavs, to go up 2-0 and 3-2, the ECF did not lead off ESPN's NBA: The Jump despite being the only game that was played. 

But of course, when the Cavs won games 3 and 4, the ECF led the show off.  It's a subtle dig, but it's unmistakable, it's not subjective or debatable, and it hasn't happened to any other final 4 teams even a single time that I've streamed the show. 

National media = losers.  Keep embarrassing yourselves with your flimsy mental midgetry in front of millions of viewers, us Celtics fans are 1 win away from being above it all.  LET'S GO!

I noticed that too on ESPN's NBA: The Jump during yesterday's show. An hour long program for the NBA, and they barely mentioned the one NBA game played the night before.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: celticinorlando on May 25, 2018, 02:01:52 PM
Oh tonight it will be all about James and this is the moment he lives for and how he will dominate...blah blah blah
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Phantom255x on May 25, 2018, 02:03:14 PM
I've learned to just accept it.

C's could win tonight and advance, but all they'll spend the next 4-5 days doing is talking about Lebron, how it's not his fault, where his next destination could be, what Lebron accomplished in the playoffs, blah blah blah  ::)
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: SHAQATTACK on May 25, 2018, 02:27:56 PM
national Media doesn't care Boston. 

Jalen Rose would not credit Boston or ever favor them......the hate is evident ,  he is part of the unwashed dumbed down masses.


Its popular with certain mass media to hate teams that play team ball and respect real coaches.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Spilling Green Dye on May 25, 2018, 02:54:31 PM
How about this Chris Ryan & KOC - The Celtics were 22 and 8 against the Western Conference during the regular season, a 73% win rate.  The Thunder were 28 and 24, 54%.  There's your regular season answer.  And in the post-season the Celtics have been even better.

OKC was actually 20-10 against the Eastern conference, including going 0-2 against Boston.

TP for the correction.  My analysis was how each team did against the Western Conference.  From that perspective the Celtics were really dominant. 
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Spilling Green Dye on May 25, 2018, 02:55:35 PM
I think the C's have gotten a lot of praise, but also they're expected to fail on the road again and then its game 7 and overall LBJ is expected to win that as he's the best player.

I just don't see the grievance. LBJ is always the biggest story along with the Warriors, just how it is with the best player and the best team. Until they aren't the best or are knocked out that is.

I think there's some grievance when the only article I saw on The Ringer website after the Game 5 win was "The Celtics Making The Finals Is The Worst Outcome" and the article itself was very shallow and basically amounted to "I resent Boston sports."

Good call.  I can't believe I clicked on that article.. or should I say several sentences that concluded, like you said, with a "I just don't like Boston".

Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Neurotic Guy on May 25, 2018, 03:00:58 PM
Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that.  If the C's make it past Cleveland and then do some damage in the Finals, they'll be recognized for the accomplishment.  But I think (and rightly so), most experts and fans believe the Finals is being played right now in the West, and the C's, if they make it, will get their clock cleaned by whichever of GSW/Houston emerges.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Onslaught on May 25, 2018, 03:12:50 PM
It's not just Basketball. ESPN is unwatchable with Tiger Woods plays in a tournament.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Phantom255x on May 25, 2018, 03:13:25 PM
national Media doesn't care Boston. 

Jalen Rose would not credit Boston or ever favor them......the hate is evident ,  he is part of the unwashed dumbed down masses.


Its popular with certain mass media to hate teams that play team ball and respect real coaches.

This is why I'm glad Pierce is there on NBA Countdown. Not saying Pierce is the best analyst out there and I admit he can be a homer at times, but at least neutralizes all the hate/doubt that Jalen Rose and Chauncey Billups spew on the air about the C's every single game...  ::)
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: CF033 on May 25, 2018, 03:13:52 PM
Well, we've been expected to get our clocks cleaned by everyone we've faced so far... Even if Cleveland manages to come back and take this series that would still be FAR from a clock cleaning.

Personally, I don't expect us to get destroyed if we make the finals. Both GS and Houston have been far from stellar in their series. And you know we will give either team fits on the perimeter where they live.

On the original topic. The issue is... People SEVERLY underestimated the talent we have on this team even without Kyrie and Hayward, and rightfully so. Lots of unproven guys on our team going into the playoffs. But as these playoffs have gone along it's clear that JT and JB are most likely future all stars and honestly, JT has played on an all star level for the entire playoffs now. Also, Rozier has majorly elevated his game at times.

If we did somehow manage to take the championship imagine if Jayson Tatum won the finals MVP?

Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that.  If the C's make it past Cleveland and then do some damage in the Finals, they'll be recognized for the accomplishment.  But I think (and rightly so), most experts and fans believe the Finals is being played right now in the West, and the C's, if they make it, will get their clock cleaned by whichever of GSW/Houston emerges.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 25, 2018, 03:18:54 PM
Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that. 

Not disagreeing necessarily, but two weeks ago the narrative was "Cavs turn it on in playoffs and destroy Raptors," with much less discussion about how weak the East is. It was all about how unstoppable Lebron is when the games really matter, and how he's having one of the most dominant postseasons ever.

Now, it's about how Lebron's "exhausted."

But you can bet your last dollar that if the Cavs had just completed a 4-1 thrashing of the Celtics, the narrative would be "Lebron averages 31/7/8 and dominates competition again."

The thing is, those numbers are what he's actually averaging now on the edge of elimination, and are right at or above his career playoff averages. The facts don't change, but the narrative does.

I think that inconsistency is a big source of the frustration here.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Fafnir on May 25, 2018, 03:24:27 PM
I think the C's have gotten a lot of praise, but also they're expected to fail on the road again and then its game 7 and overall LBJ is expected to win that as he's the best player.

I just don't see the grievance. LBJ is always the biggest story along with the Warriors, just how it is with the best player and the best team. Until they aren't the best or are knocked out that is.

I think there's some grievance when the only article I saw on The Ringer website after the Game 5 win was "The Celtics Making The Finals Is The Worst Outcome" and the article itself was very shallow and basically amounted to "I resent Boston sports."
You really think Boston gets "less" attention from the national media than it "deserves"?

We've been one of the 4 biggest stories in the NBA this year. Simmons has multiple podcasts focusing on the C's himself (in part he covers WCF too) etc etc etc. I think the national media pays a ton of attention to Boston and the Celtics.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: smokeablount on May 25, 2018, 03:31:34 PM
I think the C's have gotten a lot of praise, but also they're expected to fail on the road again and then its game 7 and overall LBJ is expected to win that as he's the best player.

I just don't see the grievance. LBJ is always the biggest story along with the Warriors, just how it is with the best player and the best team. Until they aren't the best or are knocked out that is.

I think there's some grievance when the only article I saw on The Ringer website after the Game 5 win was "The Celtics Making The Finals Is The Worst Outcome" and the article itself was very shallow and basically amounted to "I resent Boston sports."
You really think Boston gets "less" attention from the national media than it "deserves"?

We've been one of the 4 biggest stories in the NBA this year. Simmons has multiple podcasts focusing on the C's himself (in part he covers WCF too) etc etc etc. I think the national media pays a ton of attention to Boston and the Celtics.

We're 2 to 1 favorites to be in the finals, a final 2 team, led by a 21 and a 22 year old, so I'd say being one of the 4 biggest NBA stories this year is the absolute minimum.  And Simmons used to go by the moniker 'The Boston Sports Guy' and runs his own business, so I wouldn't say he really represents the national media.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: smokeablount on May 25, 2018, 03:32:01 PM
I think most human beings, given the choice between "I was wrong" and "that was just a fluke," will prefer the latter explanation for what's happened.

Yup.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: mctyson on May 25, 2018, 03:35:47 PM
I am really annoyed at the "they are missing their best 2 players thing"

Hayward did not play all season.  They won 55 games without him.  Him not playing is irrelevant.

Kyrie was a big part of many of those 55 wins, but not really on the defensive side.  The team is better defensively with him off the floor.  Obviously much worse offensively as well, but the best aspect of this team is their defense, and this is their best rotation.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Erik on May 25, 2018, 03:47:05 PM
I am really annoyed at the "they are missing their best 2 players thing"

Hayward did not play all season.  They won 55 games without him.  Him not playing is irrelevant.

Kyrie was a big part of many of those 55 wins, but not really on the defensive side.  The team is better defensively with him off the floor.  Obviously much worse offensively as well, but the best aspect of this team is their defense, and this is their best rotation.

With the way that Al is playing, I'm not so sure that Hayward is our 2nd best player. I guess it depends on your definition of best. Mine is "most valuable." I don't think we get to where we are now if Hayward was healthy and Horford was injured. The guy is just too important in our system. He's such a gem -- so rare.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: johnnygreen on May 25, 2018, 03:54:00 PM
Screw the media.  They're idiots, it p---es me off too, but then I wonder why I listen to them at all.

The most annoying thing to me is how our last 2 wins against the Cavs, to go up 2-0 and 3-2, the ECF did not lead off ESPN's NBA: The Jump despite being the only game that was played. 

But of course, when the Cavs won games 3 and 4, the ECF led the show off.  It's a subtle dig, but it's unmistakable, it's not subjective or debatable, and it hasn't happened to any other final 4 teams even a single time that I've streamed the show. 

National media = losers.  Keep embarrassing yourselves with your flimsy mental midgetry in front of millions of viewers, us Celtics fans are 1 win away from being above it all.  LET'S GO!

I noticed that too on ESPN's NBA: The Jump during yesterday's show. An hour long program for the NBA, and they barely mentioned the one NBA game played the night before.

I forgot to mention a segment on the Celtics from The Jump show. They had a clip of career highlights on Al Horford flinching during dead ball plays, after the ball hits the rim or backboard. I never noticed this before, and it was hilarious.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: kraidstar on May 25, 2018, 04:02:51 PM
This has been arguably one of the greatest NBA "Cinderella" stories of all-time.

If it were college hoops we would be the biggest story by far.

It's kinda funny how the national media hates underdogs in this sport.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: mctyson on May 25, 2018, 04:11:48 PM
This has been arguably one of the greatest NBA "Cinderella" stories of all-time.

If it were college hoops we would be the biggest story by far.

It's kinda funny how the national media hates underdogs in this sport.

They won 55 games.  Best defense in the league.  Call it Cinderella if you want to but they were a [dang] good team prior to the playoffs, just needed a collective effort on offense to replace Kyrie's output.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Beat LA on May 25, 2018, 04:19:11 PM
While I personally love the blatant disrespect, and as a bit of an aside, has anyone else noticed as to the discrepancy between the manner in which ESPN has presented the box scores of the games between the Celtics and the Cavs during the ECF? Like, you know how they typically leave the, well, box scores from the previous evening's contests up until around noon of the next day all throughout the season? Well, that pattern has continued for each game of the WCF, but, and I kid you not, whenever the Celtics have beaten Lebron in this series, ESPN's calendar has immediately shifted to the next date once the clock has struck midnight, but when the Cavs have won, the calendar adheres to the normal pattern and the box score is left up until noon of the following day, LOL ::) ;D. 
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: celticinorlando on May 25, 2018, 04:24:52 PM
Nobody in the media thinks the Celtics will even compete tonight let alone win
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: PhoSita on May 25, 2018, 04:30:06 PM
You really think Boston gets "less" attention from the national media than it "deserves"?


Obviously Boston in general gets lots of attention. 

I do think that for most of this Celtics playoff run, their opponents have been a greater focus in the coverage of each series than what the Celts themselves are doing.


I think Boris has it right, though -- it's easier to say that this is a fluke or that the team you thought would win is to blame than to readjust your assessment of the team that's unexpectedly winning.


There are plenty of places where the Celts are getting coverage, but I was struck by the fact that most of the articles I saw on places like The Ringer following that Game 5 were about either  LeBron being tired, LeBron's team not being good enough, or how disappointing it would be for the Celts to make the Finals.


Now imagine what the coverage would look like right now if, as many were thinking would happen as of a few weeks ago, the Sixers were currently up 3-2 on the Cavs on the strength of great play from Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Do you think there would be many pieces lamenting the fact that we would be robbed of another LeBron Finals appearance because a young team was ahead of schedule?  No, there'd be a million pieces fawning over how great Simmons and Embiid are and saying The Process was worth it all along.

That and your various podcast hosts a la Chris Ryan would be talking about how awesome the next decade of Joel Embiid memes are going to be.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on May 25, 2018, 04:31:18 PM
Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that.  If the C's make it past Cleveland and then do some damage in the Finals, they'll be recognized for the accomplishment.  But I think (and rightly so), most experts and fans believe the Finals is being played right now in the West, and the C's, if they make it, will get their clock cleaned by whichever of GSW/Houston emerges.

I don't disagree, but I work with several Lakers fans (I live in L.A. County), and they like to jokingly remind me about how weak the East is ... while conveniently ignoring the fact that the West was pretty weak when the Lakers were good in the '80s. Some people have actually talked about realignment to balance out the two conferences, but I think realigning every time there's conference imbalance is a bad idea. If some of the top free agents in the West were smart, they'd sign with East teams to make their road to the Finals easier.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Surferdad on May 25, 2018, 04:33:32 PM
In addition to all comments so far, the national media doesn’t care as much for the Eastern Conference as compared to the WC.  Warriors, Rockets, Thunder etc. make for more ‘exciting’ storylines.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: PhoSita on May 25, 2018, 04:34:18 PM
Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that.  If the C's make it past Cleveland and then do some damage in the Finals, they'll be recognized for the accomplishment.  But I think (and rightly so), most experts and fans believe the Finals is being played right now in the West, and the C's, if they make it, will get their clock cleaned by whichever of GSW/Houston emerges.

I don't disagree, but I work with several Lakers fans (I live in L.A. County), and they like to jokingly remind me about how weak the East is ... while conveniently ignoring the fact that the West was pretty weak when the Lakers were good in the '80s. Some people have actually talked about realignment to balance out the two conferences, but I think realigning every time there's conference imbalance is a bad idea. If some of the top free agents in the West were smart, they'd sign with East teams to make their road to the Finals easier.



On paper the East wasn't really very weak this year, the problem is that the Raptors once again imploded and one of the other "contenders" in the conference, the Sixers, were not quite as good as their record suggested thanks to their lack of experience.  And of course there was the Kyrie injury.

On paper it looked like there were four elite teams in the East as we approached the playoffs, it just didn't work out that way as things actually played out.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: PhoSita on May 25, 2018, 04:44:41 PM
I think most human beings, given the choice between "I was wrong" and "that was just a fluke," will prefer the latter explanation for what's happened.

I think there's also an element here of media folks just being legitimately disappointed in the wake of that Game 5.  Given the choice between seeing the "ahead of schedule but still no chance at the title" young Celts or watching LeBron overcome the obstacles to make the Finals *yet again*, most neutral people in the media (and in general) would rather "witness history" i.e. see LeBron do something amazing.

To the extent it appears that won't happen, I think there's a noticeable deflation of interest in talking about this series.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on May 25, 2018, 04:52:05 PM
You really think Boston gets "less" attention from the national media than it "deserves"?


Obviously Boston in general gets lots of attention. 

I do think that for most of this Celtics playoff run, their opponents have been a greater focus in the coverage of each series than what the Celts themselves are doing.


I think Boris has it right, though -- it's easier to say that this is a fluke or that the team you thought would win is to blame than to readjust your assessment of the team that's unexpectedly winning.


There are plenty of places where the Celts are getting coverage, but I was struck by the fact that most of the articles I saw on places like The Ringer following that Game 5 were about either  LeBron being tired, LeBron's team not being good enough, or how disappointing it would be for the Celts to make the Finals.


Now imagine what the coverage would look like right now if, as many were thinking would happen as of a few weeks ago, the Sixers were currently up 3-2 on the Cavs on the strength of great play from Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Do you think there would be many pieces lamenting the fact that we would be robbed of another LeBron Finals appearance because a young team was ahead of schedule?  No, there'd be a million pieces fawning over how great Simmons and Embiid are and saying The Process was worth it all along.

In this playoff run, Boston has faced a lot of players who are personal binkies of the NBA and ESPN—Giannis, Embiid, Simmons, LeBron—and it seems that there's been as much emphasis on those individuals losing as there's been on Boston winning. I get it—stars are what sell, and this Boston team has no established, bonafide stars (maybe one or two in the making, but not there yet in terms of marketing hype)—but I'm tired of so many people being lapdogs for LeBron and the other "favored sons."
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on May 25, 2018, 04:54:52 PM
Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that.  If the C's make it past Cleveland and then do some damage in the Finals, they'll be recognized for the accomplishment.  But I think (and rightly so), most experts and fans believe the Finals is being played right now in the West, and the C's, if they make it, will get their clock cleaned by whichever of GSW/Houston emerges.

I don't disagree, but I work with several Lakers fans (I live in L.A. County), and they like to jokingly remind me about how weak the East is ... while conveniently ignoring the fact that the West was pretty weak when the Lakers were good in the '80s. Some people have actually talked about realignment to balance out the two conferences, but I think realigning every time there's conference imbalance is a bad idea. If some of the top free agents in the West were smart, they'd sign with East teams to make their road to the Finals easier.



On paper the East wasn't really very weak this year, the problem is that the Raptors once again imploded and one of the other "contenders" in the conference, the Sixers, were not quite as good as their record suggested thanks to their lack of experience.  And of course there was the Kyrie injury.

On paper it looked like there were four elite teams in the East as we approached the playoffs, it just didn't work out that way as things actually played out.

I think people should've known that the Raptors weren't gonna change, and that a heavily inexperienced Philly team wasn't gonna go far (Boston has a lot of inexperience, but they do have a high-quality, high-impact vet in Horford, something Philly doesn't have).
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Surferdad on May 25, 2018, 05:00:47 PM
Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that.  If the C's make it past Cleveland and then do some damage in the Finals, they'll be recognized for the accomplishment.  But I think (and rightly so), most experts and fans believe the Finals is being played right now in the West, and the C's, if they make it, will get their clock cleaned by whichever of GSW/Houston emerges.

I don't disagree, but I work with several Lakers fans (I live in L.A. County), and they like to jokingly remind me about how weak the East is ... while conveniently ignoring the fact that the West was pretty weak when the Lakers were good in the '80s. Some people have actually talked about realignment to balance out the two conferences, but I think realigning every time there's conference imbalance is a bad idea. If some of the top free agents in the West were smart, they'd sign with East teams to make their road to the Finals easier.
Realignment makes no sense.  What is more likely is 1 through 16 playoff seeding so there will no longer be WC and EC champions.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: footey on May 25, 2018, 05:20:19 PM
Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that.  If the C's make it past Cleveland and then do some damage in the Finals, they'll be recognized for the accomplishment.  But I think (and rightly so), most experts and fans believe the Finals is being played right now in the West, and the C's, if they make it, will get their clock cleaned by whichever of GSW/Houston emerges.

I don't disagree, but I work with several Lakers fans (I live in L.A. County), and they like to jokingly remind me about how weak the East is ... while conveniently ignoring the fact that the West was pretty weak when the Lakers were good in the '80s. Some people have actually talked about realignment to balance out the two conferences, but I think realigning every time there's conference imbalance is a bad idea. If some of the top free agents in the West were smart, they'd sign with East teams to make their road to the Finals easier.

If we win the championship they will shut up.

And their silence will be beautiful.
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on May 25, 2018, 05:23:31 PM
Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that.  If the C's make it past Cleveland and then do some damage in the Finals, they'll be recognized for the accomplishment.  But I think (and rightly so), most experts and fans believe the Finals is being played right now in the West, and the C's, if they make it, will get their clock cleaned by whichever of GSW/Houston emerges.

I don't disagree, but I work with several Lakers fans (I live in L.A. County), and they like to jokingly remind me about how weak the East is ... while conveniently ignoring the fact that the West was pretty weak when the Lakers were good in the '80s. Some people have actually talked about realignment to balance out the two conferences, but I think realigning every time there's conference imbalance is a bad idea. If some of the top free agents in the West were smart, they'd sign with East teams to make their road to the Finals easier.

If we win the championship they will shut up.

And their silence will be beautiful.

Yes it will. ;D
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: csfansince60s on May 25, 2018, 06:00:04 PM
Celts will get ridiculous credit if they do the impossible.  Beating Cleveland is not the impossible I am talking about.

I think the popular narrative isn't really too far off from reality.  The Eastern Conference competition is weak enough to have a young, injured team like the C's only one game from a trip to the Finals.  I think people are passing this off as less "amazing" than it is a function of poor competition.  And it's hard to argue with that.  If the C's make it past Cleveland and then do some damage in the Finals, they'll be recognized for the accomplishment.  But I think (and rightly so), most experts and fans believe the Finals is being played right now in the West, and the C's, if they make it, will get their clock cleaned by whichever of GSW/Houston emerges.

I don't disagree, but I work with several Lakers fans (I live in L.A. County), and they like to jokingly remind me about how weak the East is ... while conveniently ignoring the fact that the West was pretty weak when the Lakers were good in the '80s. Some people have actually talked about realignment to balance out the two conferences, but I think realigning every time there's conference imbalance is a bad idea. If some of the top free agents in the West were smart, they'd sign with East teams to make their road to the Finals easier.

If we win the championship they will shut up.

And their silence will be beautiful.

....and deafening!!!
Title: Re: A Bit Annoyed that the Cs Aren't Being Credited for Winning
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 25, 2018, 07:08:34 PM
This team has so much heart!!!!!I hope we play team basketball tonight and win win win, Baby!

(I for one think we are at our best and playing Celtics ball when the ball is being shared and moved around.)