I’m a Smart hater

[bellerephon]

I'm not claiming that Smart is an elite passer, or that his passing is irreplaceable. But the combination of a top defensive player with good passing skills is a very useful one. I think he runs the pick and roll better than Rozier and Larkin, although he does turn the ball over more than they do. My point is that despite his poor shooting he does have skills that add value on offense.

[nickagneta]

Wait...not so fast. Smart does take a lot of bad shots that are bad decisions. And being one of the worst shooters in league history, he should not be taking these shots. Those are definitely losing plays

If Kyrie or Tatum miss shots, those are missed shots, they are both efficient scorers and great shooters. But Smart isn't. He is horribly inefficient and a terrible shooter, yet is constantly the player taking the second to most shots. If you know you are a bad scorer/shooter then play within yourself and don't jack up 3-5 horrid shots a game. Those particular shots, not all the missed shots, are losing plays.

That said Marcus makes 3-5 or more great plays a game that make up for it.

Shooting isn't the only part of offensive play. The good Marcus brings clearly outweighs his shooting issues, and he helps us win more than helps us lose.

I don't any reasonable grounds to disagree with that, given the 4 years of evidence he has provided.

Shooting isn't the only part of offense. For a ball handler its not turning the ball over. Smart has the most turnovers and by far the highest tournover% by a player with high usage on the team. Turnovers are losing plays.

But I wasn't discussing if Marcus creates more winning plays as losing plays, simply that bad shots, and he takes a lot, are in fact losing plays. People were arguing they weren't but in Smart's case, they are.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Wait...not so fast. Smart does take a lot of bad shots that are bad decisions. And being one of the worst shooters in league history, he should not be taking these shots. Those are definitely losing plays

If Kyrie or Tatum miss shots, those are missed shots, they are both efficient scorers and great shooters. But Smart isn't. He is horribly inefficient and a terrible shooter, yet is constantly the player taking the second to most shots. If you know you are a bad scorer/shooter then play within yourself and don't jack up 3-5 horrid shots a game. Those particular shots, not all the missed shots, are losing plays.

That said Marcus makes 3-5 or more great plays a game that make up for it.

Shooting isn't the only part of offensive play. The good Marcus brings clearly outweighs his shooting issues, and he helps us win more than helps us lose.

I don't any reasonable grounds to disagree with that, given the 4 years of evidence he has provided.

Shooting isn't the only part of offense. For a ball handler its not turning the ball over. Smart has the most turnovers and by far the highest tournover% by a player with high usage on the team. Turnovers are losing plays.

But I wasn't discussing if Marcus creates more winning plays as losing plays, simply that bad shots, and he takes a lot, are in fact losing plays. People were arguing they weren't but in Smart's case, they are.

I'd be a lot happier with Smart, and a lot less likely to complain about him, if he would simply limit himself to, say, 5 shots a game, unless he's absolutely on fire (rare, I know).

I understand (and like) that Boston runs an offense based on sharing the ball and having the open players (whomever it may be at any given time) taking the open shots, but if Smart would cut his shot attempts roughly in half (he's at 9.5 per game) and guys like Tatum and Brown could up their shots per game by a few, I think that would help the team.

[wayupnorth]

Wait...not so fast. Smart does take a lot of bad shots that are bad decisions. And being one of the worst shooters in league history, he should not be taking these shots. Those are definitely losing plays

If Kyrie or Tatum miss shots, those are missed shots, they are both efficient scorers and great shooters. But Smart isn't. He is horribly inefficient and a terrible shooter, yet is constantly the player taking the second to most shots. If you know you are a bad scorer/shooter then play within yourself and don't jack up 3-5 horrid shots a game. Those particular shots, not all the missed shots, are losing plays.

That said Marcus makes 3-5 or more great plays a game that make up for it.

Shooting isn't the only part of offensive play. The good Marcus brings clearly outweighs his shooting issues, and he helps us win more than helps us lose.

I don't any reasonable grounds to disagree with that, given the 4 years of evidence he has provided.

Shooting isn't the only part of offense. For a ball handler its not turning the ball over. Smart has the most turnovers and by far the highest tournover% by a player with high usage on the team. Turnovers are losing plays.

But I wasn't discussing if Marcus creates more winning plays as losing plays, simply that bad shots, and he takes a lot, are in fact losing plays. People were arguing they weren't but in Smart's case, they are.

I'd be a lot happier with Smart, and a lot less likely to complain about him, if he would simply limit himself to, say, 5 shots a game, unless he's absolutely on fire (rare, I know).

I understand (and like) that Boston runs an offense based on sharing the ball and having the open players (whomever it may be at any given time) taking the open shots, but if Smart would cut his shot attempts roughly in half (he's at 9.5 per game) and guys like Tatum and Brown could up their shots per game by a few, I think that would help the team.

I am not going to say that thay doesn't make sense to me, because it really does, but I trust Brad makes this sort of decision to encourage him to keep shooting with a darn good reason.

[dreamgreen]

I'm a Smart hater and still am!

I think you guys are giving him way to much credit for those last 2 calls and instead should be giving it to the ref who finally had the courage to make the right calls against a guy that pushes off on every play!

I'll keep saying it Smart is a decent role player when he plays within his abilities. Unfortunately WAY to often he tries to play above his abilities which always hurts the team.

Traded at the trade deadline if anyone will pony up something of value for him.

Nonsense.  They teach all basketball players at the lowest levels on the need to sell offensive fouls.  How many charges are called when a defender stays standing?  Zero.

That is all defensive positioning, instinct, and his ability to foul/annoy people to the point that they elbow him to the ground.

No it's not. Watch next game Smart aka Stupid will foul a 3 point shooter at the end of the game and we will lose because of it. If you go back and watch all the games this year I bet you will easily see for every great play Stupid makes he makes a horrible one. Even worse what I have noticed is he compounds his Stupid plays. Meaning he will come down on the offensive end make a horrible turnover, realizing he screwed up he will race down and foul a jump shooter. Turning 30 seconds into a 4 point swing for the other team. He does this constantly, constantly!!!!

Calling Celtics such derogatory names is clear baiting. Do not continue this.

You guys are way to PC on this site it drives me crazy and it has destroyed most blogs. If you want this blog to fail keep up the PC crap I can assure you all you will have is a bunch of care bears on here. By bunch I mean 10 and there will be nobody else. I've been a member for many years and it's extremely disappointing to see you guys trend this way over the years!

[dreamgreen]

Wait...not so fast. Smart does take a lot of bad shots that are bad decisions. And being one of the worst shooters in league history, he should not be taking these shots. Those are definitely losing plays

If Kyrie or Tatum miss shots, those are missed shots, they are both efficient scorers and great shooters. But Smart isn't. He is horribly inefficient and a terrible shooter, yet is constantly the player taking the second to most shots. If you know you are a bad scorer/shooter then play within yourself and don't jack up 3-5 horrid shots a game. Those particular shots, not all the missed shots, are losing plays.

That said Marcus makes 3-5 or more great plays a game that make up for it.

Shooting isn't the only part of offensive play. The good Marcus brings clearly outweighs his shooting issues, and he helps us win more than helps us lose.

I don't any reasonable grounds to disagree with that, given the 4 years of evidence he has provided.

Shooting isn't the only part of offense. For a ball handler its not turning the ball over. Smart has the most turnovers and by far the highest tournover% by a player with high usage on the team. Turnovers are losing plays.

But I wasn't discussing if Marcus creates more winning plays as losing plays, simply that bad shots, and he takes a lot, are in fact losing plays. People were arguing they weren't but in Smart's case, they are.

Oh sure when I say this it's nonsense and I'm a moron lol, anyway I agree with you 100%.

[dreamgreen]

Dreamgreen, another poster gave you an opportunity to present your case that Marcus makes big defensive mistakes at the end of a game. You chose to not defend this statement.

I wanted to give you another opportunity to provide evidence "for every great play [Smart] makes he makes a horrible one."

I'm assuming that you won't respond, because your statement isn't based in reality.

Or I didn't stay on here all day and this is my first time back on??

Anyway I have to stream all games that are not on national tv and unlike some others on here I can't recall play by play every game but next game that is on national tv I will come on here during the game on the game thread and point out every time Smart does horrible plays and I will YELL it on here when he compounds a bad play with back to back bad plays and it does happen a lot. If you don't see this you're completely bias and need to look in the mirror and call yourself out.

Look he's a Celtic I want him to be good and I agree at times he makes really good plays. What I'm saying is the 100% truth, he makes a LOT of awful plays, bad shots, turnovers, fouls and so.

I'm simply saying IMO he's 50/50 half good half bad and that doesn't make you a great player in any sport other than baseball.

If you like guys that are well below average on offense and do the same things I did at the Y for years as far as hustle and effort great. Makes the experience good for you, personally it makes it painful for me most nights to watch him do the same dumb things over and over.

Maybe he will get better on the offensive end and stop with the dumb stuff and I can cheer for him too. But right now most night he drives my crazy.

[Eja117]

I'll tell you one Smart hater.....the city of Houston. And I'm fine with that

[hwangjini_1]

I'm a Smart hater and still am!

I think you guys are giving him way to much credit for those last 2 calls and instead should be giving it to the ref who finally had the courage to make the right calls against a guy that pushes off on every play!

I'll keep saying it Smart is a decent role player when he plays within his abilities. Unfortunately WAY to often he tries to play above his abilities which always hurts the team.

Traded at the trade deadline if anyone will pony up something of value for him.

Nonsense.  They teach all basketball players at the lowest levels on the need to sell offensive fouls.  How many charges are called when a defender stays standing?  Zero.

That is all defensive positioning, instinct, and his ability to foul/annoy people to the point that they elbow him to the ground.

No it's not. Watch next game Smart aka Stupid will foul a 3 point shooter at the end of the game and we will lose because of it. If you go back and watch all the games this year I bet you will easily see for every great play Stupid makes he makes a horrible one. Even worse what I have noticed is he compounds his Stupid plays. Meaning he will come down on the offensive end make a horrible turnover, realizing he screwed up he will race down and foul a jump shooter. Turning 30 seconds into a 4 point swing for the other team. He does this constantly, constantly!!!!

Calling Celtics such derogatory names is clear baiting. Do not continue this.

You guys are way to PC on this site it drives me crazy and it has destroyed most blogs. If you want this blog to fail keep up the PC crap I can assure you all you will have is a bunch of care bears on here. By bunch I mean 10 and there will be nobody else. I've been a member for many years and it's extremely disappointing to see you guys trend this way over the years!

hi dreamgreen. actually, this blog has been pretty consistent over the years, and i have been here even before the big big server shift in 2006. (yes, i do spend an excessive amount of my time here.) i dont see what you are referring to in your post.

civility is not the same being pc. cb has always been a civil place, populated by mods who do a pretty good job over all...though jeff should give them raises. 

there are folks who have been around a lot for a long time, such as me. but i also see new names and posters popping up often. some stay. some don't.

for me, this place is civil and allows a good level of debate, but always polices abuse. i like that. i want posters here to provide thoughtful, humorous, and well researched posts. it makes reading here a whole lot better.

that is why i called out your lack of evidence and proof earlier. up your posting game and do better please. we would all benefit from that.

in contrast, i also post in SoSH, where i am a member. and there, it is not so nice and i have witnessed some really brutal take downs and pile ons there. there are zero language filters there. but SoSHers do this with a purpose. they wish to weed out weak posters, people who make assertions without the homework and research. quality of post trumps all there...that and talking about drinking. 

they are good at keeping the quality of posts very high. but it is not nearly as welcoming as here. SoSH is anything and everything but pc.

so, go give SoSH a try. see how it goes for you.

[nickagneta]

I'm a Smart hater and still am!

I think you guys are giving him way to much credit for those last 2 calls and instead should be giving it to the ref who finally had the courage to make the right calls against a guy that pushes off on every play!

I'll keep saying it Smart is a decent role player when he plays within his abilities. Unfortunately WAY to often he tries to play above his abilities which always hurts the team.

Traded at the trade deadline if anyone will pony up something of value for him.

Nonsense.  They teach all basketball players at the lowest levels on the need to sell offensive fouls.  How many charges are called when a defender stays standing?  Zero.

That is all defensive positioning, instinct, and his ability to foul/annoy people to the point that they elbow him to the ground.

No it's not. Watch next game Smart aka Stupid will foul a 3 point shooter at the end of the game and we will lose because of it. If you go back and watch all the games this year I bet you will easily see for every great play Stupid makes he makes a horrible one. Even worse what I have noticed is he compounds his Stupid plays. Meaning he will come down on the offensive end make a horrible turnover, realizing he screwed up he will race down and foul a jump shooter. Turning 30 seconds into a 4 point swing for the other team. He does this constantly, constantly!!!!

Calling Celtics such derogatory names is clear baiting. Do not continue this.

You guys are way to PC on this site it drives me crazy and it has destroyed most blogs. If you want this blog to fail keep up the PC crap I can assure you all you will have is a bunch of care bears on here. By bunch I mean 10 and there will be nobody else. I've been a member for many years and it's extremely disappointing to see you guys trend this way over the years!

hi dreamgreen. actually, this blog has been pretty consistent over the years, and i have been here even before the big big server shift in 2006. (yes, i do spend an excessive amount of my time here.) i dont see what you are referring to in your post.

civility is not the same being pc. cb has always been a civil place, populated by mods who do a pretty good job over all...though jeff should give them raises. 

there are folks who have been around a lot for a long time, such as me. but i also see new names and posters popping up often. some stay. some don't.

for me, this place is civil and allows a good level of debate, but always polices abuse. i like that. i want posters here to provide thoughtful, humorous, and well researched posts. it makes reading here a whole lot better.

that is why i called out your lack of evidence and proof earlier. up your posting game and do better please. we would all benefit from that.

in contrast, i also post in SoSH, where i am a member. and there, it is not so nice and i have witnessed some really brutal take downs and pile ons there. there are zero language filters there. but SoSHers do this with a purpose. they wish to weed out weak posters, people who make assertions without the homework and research. quality of post trumps all there...that and talking about drinking. 

they are good at keeping the quality of posts very high. but it is not nearly as welcoming as here. SoSH is anything and everything but pc.

so, go give SoSH a try. see how it goes for you.

Please continue this conversation in the rules and restrictions thread

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=4046.0

I will copy this discussion there.

[Big333223]

Smart does improve the offense, and it's not just a matter of stats being used to prove anything. No doubt, he is a very poor shooter. But he handles the ball well, runs the pick and roll well, and passes well. Those are all extremely useful skills. It is also useful to have him play alongside Kyrie. Smart's ability to play point allows Kyrie to play off the ball at times, giving the opposing team a different look and making the Celts offense harder to defend.

Larkin, Rozier, Horford, and Kyrie all have better assist to to ratios than Smart, and while I've never really thought Smart's passing was bad I've never thought it was all that great either. I can grant that Smart certainly makes some major defensive game winning plays, but the idea that he is an irreplaceable passer, and that his passing is somehow uniquely lifting the Celts offense in a way that the other players can't isn't really something I could agree to.

Rondo. That guy's passing could really change things. Smart...not as much

Talk about cherry picking stats. Smart's AST% is 23.5, Larkin's is 15.9 and Rozier's is 13.5 As a playmaker for others, Rozier is closer to Marcus Morris than he is to Smart. Rozier's turnovers are so low because he's not asked to run the offense the way Smart does. Yes, Rozier takes care of the ball well but he also has a different role in the offense entirely that affects how many turnovers he has.

[Eja117]

Smart does improve the offense, and it's not just a matter of stats being used to prove anything. No doubt, he is a very poor shooter. But he handles the ball well, runs the pick and roll well, and passes well. Those are all extremely useful skills. It is also useful to have him play alongside Kyrie. Smart's ability to play point allows Kyrie to play off the ball at times, giving the opposing team a different look and making the Celts offense harder to defend.

Larkin, Rozier, Horford, and Kyrie all have better assist to to ratios than Smart, and while I've never really thought Smart's passing was bad I've never thought it was all that great either. I can grant that Smart certainly makes some major defensive game winning plays, but the idea that he is an irreplaceable passer, and that his passing is somehow uniquely lifting the Celts offense in a way that the other players can't isn't really something I could agree to.

Rondo. That guy's passing could really change things. Smart...not as much

Talk about cherry picking stats. Smart's AST% is 23.5, Larkin's is 15.9 and Rozier's is 13.5 As a playmaker for others, Rozier is closer to Marcus Morris than he is to Smart. Rozier's turnovers are so low because he's not asked to run the offense the way Smart does. Yes, Rozier takes care of the ball well but he also has a different role in the offense entirely that affects how many turnovers he has.

If it makes you feel any better he has the 2nd most assists on the team per 36 minutes. But he also has the 2nd most turnovers.

[Big333223]

Smart does improve the offense, and it's not just a matter of stats being used to prove anything. No doubt, he is a very poor shooter. But he handles the ball well, runs the pick and roll well, and passes well. Those are all extremely useful skills. It is also useful to have him play alongside Kyrie. Smart's ability to play point allows Kyrie to play off the ball at times, giving the opposing team a different look and making the Celts offense harder to defend.

Larkin, Rozier, Horford, and Kyrie all have better assist to to ratios than Smart, and while I've never really thought Smart's passing was bad I've never thought it was all that great either. I can grant that Smart certainly makes some major defensive game winning plays, but the idea that he is an irreplaceable passer, and that his passing is somehow uniquely lifting the Celts offense in a way that the other players can't isn't really something I could agree to.

Rondo. That guy's passing could really change things. Smart...not as much

Talk about cherry picking stats. Smart's AST% is 23.5, Larkin's is 15.9 and Rozier's is 13.5 As a playmaker for others, Rozier is closer to Marcus Morris than he is to Smart. Rozier's turnovers are so low because he's not asked to run the offense the way Smart does. Yes, Rozier takes care of the ball well but he also has a different role in the offense entirely that affects how many turnovers he has.

If it makes you feel any better he has the 2nd most assists on the team per 36 minutes. But he also has the 2nd most turnovers.

I'm confused. What am I to infer from those stats?

[smokeablount]

Smart does improve the offense, and it's not just a matter of stats being used to prove anything. No doubt, he is a very poor shooter. But he handles the ball well, runs the pick and roll well, and passes well. Those are all extremely useful skills. It is also useful to have him play alongside Kyrie. Smart's ability to play point allows Kyrie to play off the ball at times, giving the opposing team a different look and making the Celts offense harder to defend.

Larkin, Rozier, Horford, and Kyrie all have better assist to to ratios than Smart, and while I've never really thought Smart's passing was bad I've never thought it was all that great either. I can grant that Smart certainly makes some major defensive game winning plays, but the idea that he is an irreplaceable passer, and that his passing is somehow uniquely lifting the Celts offense in a way that the other players can't isn't really something I could agree to.

Rondo. That guy's passing could really change things. Smart...not as much

I agree with many of the points you’re making, but Smart has really stepped up his game this year and become a very capable passer.

[Eja117]

Smart does improve the offense, and it's not just a matter of stats being used to prove anything. No doubt, he is a very poor shooter. But he handles the ball well, runs the pick and roll well, and passes well. Those are all extremely useful skills. It is also useful to have him play alongside Kyrie. Smart's ability to play point allows Kyrie to play off the ball at times, giving the opposing team a different look and making the Celts offense harder to defend.

Larkin, Rozier, Horford, and Kyrie all have better assist to to ratios than Smart, and while I've never really thought Smart's passing was bad I've never thought it was all that great either. I can grant that Smart certainly makes some major defensive game winning plays, but the idea that he is an irreplaceable passer, and that his passing is somehow uniquely lifting the Celts offense in a way that the other players can't isn't really something I could agree to.

Rondo. That guy's passing could really change things. Smart...not as much

Talk about cherry picking stats. Smart's AST% is 23.5, Larkin's is 15.9 and Rozier's is 13.5 As a playmaker for others, Rozier is closer to Marcus Morris than he is to Smart. Rozier's turnovers are so low because he's not asked to run the offense the way Smart does. Yes, Rozier takes care of the ball well but he also has a different role in the offense entirely that affects how many turnovers he has.

If it makes you feel any better he has the 2nd most assists on the team per 36 minutes. But he also has the 2nd most turnovers.

I'm confused. What am I to infer from those stats?

He's a better passer this year than last year.  That's about all I can say for his passing. I suppose it's a plus.