Say OKC gets booted , would they trade Westbrook for Rondo then ? and would you?

[tstorey_97]

The Oklahoma City thunder are struggling in late season games because of management. The roster isn't built right. I don't see it as anymore Westbrook's fault than this Celtic's season is Rondo's fault.

Offensive teams get exposed by defensive teams in the playoffs. Auerbach built balanced teams with the focus on defense. Defense was the "fount of victory."

The Thunder are not a team with a defensive tradition. They are a team with a deep scoring tradition. Auerbach would agree...I think.

The center must live and die for defense and the back court players must commit to the defense.
The Thunder are none of the above. Looking at stats in this series with the Grizzlies? Memphis is committed to their defense, they take pride in it and they know it will get them success. OKC? Throw up lots of threes...that is the plan.

Will Memphis win the title? Doubt it, but they are handling that cupcake, highlight reel OKC team pretty well by exposing them with hard defense.

Ainge will build a team the way Auerbach built teams. Teams that break their opponents with relentless defense. This would explain why the Celtics have banners and the Thunder can't get by Memphis.

I don't think Ainge wants Westbrook, but, if he traded for him? Ainge would know how to balance the roster properly and eventually win a title with Westbrook instead of a million regular season games.

San Diego Thunder
Oklahoma City Chargers

[mmmmm]

Right -- I think there are people who are fundamentally opposed to a point guard taking 31 shots. That's whatever to me, it's obviously a big deal to some other posters. To my mind, being a scorer isn't a position based skill, and the Thunder's offense is predicated around two scorers. One of them happens to nominally be described point guard. It happens.

To me, the biggest sign that it's bigger than RW is that the Thunder have been playing very similarly (per the eye test, haven't looked at the numbers) when Reggie Jackson takes over for him. Jackson's shot better than Westbrook, but my supposition -- if someone wants to look up the numbers, I won't have time for a bit -- is that their per 36 shot attempts and usage rates would be pretty close.

I don't think folks have a fundamental opposition to a point guard taking 31 shots.   What makes the stomache turn is any player taking 31 shots while completing only 10 of them.   And on a team with multiple players who are, very simply, better shooters.

Blame it on Brooks if you will - that's bad basketball.   And it's the only style of basketball I've seen Westbrook play.   How can you be certain Westbrook would be better (less inefficient) with another coach?

Westbrook shot 20.2 FGA/36 this year.   Jackson shot 14.5.

Westbrook's USG% was 34.4%.   Jackson's was 22.6.

Jackson actually played more minutes (2277) this season than Westbrook (1412) and started 36 of his 80 games.

Was Jackson not playing within Brooks' system during all that time?

[BballTim]

I could go back and quote to you all the skin deep analysis about Westbrook's shooting, but giant blocks of text are a no-no with the new layout.

There have been a few really good posts saying he shoots too much relative to his efficiency. You've even made some of those posts -- they're still in the minority.

  No need, I'll take your word for it. I tend to remember things I respond to more than things that I don't.

[D.o.s.]

Right -- I think there are people who are fundamentally opposed to a point guard taking 31 shots. That's whatever to me, it's obviously a big deal to some other posters. To my mind, being a scorer isn't a position based skill, and the Thunder's offense is predicated around two scorers. One of them happens to nominally be described point guard. It happens.

To me, the biggest sign that it's bigger than RW is that the Thunder have been playing very similarly (per the eye test, haven't looked at the numbers) when Reggie Jackson takes over for him. Jackson's shot better than Westbrook, but my supposition -- if someone wants to look up the numbers, I won't have time for a bit -- is that their per 36 shot attempts and usage rates would be pretty close.

I don't think folks have a fundamental opposition to a point guard taking 31 shots.   What makes the stomache turn is any player taking 31 shots while completing only 10 of them.   And on a team with multiple players who are, very simply, better shooters.

Blame it on Brooks if you will - that's bad basketball.   And it's the only style of basketball I've seen Westbrook play.   How can you be certain Westbrook would be better (less inefficient) with another coach?

Westbrook shot 20.2 FGA/36 this year.   Jackson shot 14.5.

Westbrook's USG% was 34.4%.   Jackson's was 22.6.

Jackson actually played more minutes (2277) this season than Westbrook (1412) and started 36 of his 80 games.

Was Jackson not playing within Brooks' system during all that time?

Very solid points -- missed most of the game last night, but 21 missed shots isn't going to look good to any one.

I was actually referring to Jackson's play during this playoffs series, since I haven't watched more than probably half of the Thunder's regular season games this year. By the numbers, Westbrook's shooting more than twice as often as Jackson per 36, and generally playing like crap on the offensive end -- although he is posting a much higher assist percentage and a lower turnover percentage.

Looks like my eye test was incorrect on that one. Westbrook could accurately be called Westbrick by the numbers:
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/1110-Russell-Westbrook/season/2013-2014-POST

On the flip side, I don't remember anyone talking about abhorrent Durant's 5-21 performance in game 4 -- Who wants to see 16 missed shots?. Probably because they won that game. Probably because he's Kevin Durant, and Westbrook is the whipping boy on that squad.

[mmmmm]

Right -- I think there are people who are fundamentally opposed to a point guard taking 31 shots. That's whatever to me, it's obviously a big deal to some other posters. To my mind, being a scorer isn't a position based skill, and the Thunder's offense is predicated around two scorers. One of them happens to nominally be described point guard. It happens.

To me, the biggest sign that it's bigger than RW is that the Thunder have been playing very similarly (per the eye test, haven't looked at the numbers) when Reggie Jackson takes over for him. Jackson's shot better than Westbrook, but my supposition -- if someone wants to look up the numbers, I won't have time for a bit -- is that their per 36 shot attempts and usage rates would be pretty close.

I don't think folks have a fundamental opposition to a point guard taking 31 shots.   What makes the stomache turn is any player taking 31 shots while completing only 10 of them.   And on a team with multiple players who are, very simply, better shooters.

Blame it on Brooks if you will - that's bad basketball.   And it's the only style of basketball I've seen Westbrook play.   How can you be certain Westbrook would be better (less inefficient) with another coach?

Westbrook shot 20.2 FGA/36 this year.   Jackson shot 14.5.

Westbrook's USG% was 34.4%.   Jackson's was 22.6.

Jackson actually played more minutes (2277) this season than Westbrook (1412) and started 36 of his 80 games.

Was Jackson not playing within Brooks' system during all that time?

Very solid points -- missed most of the game last night, but 21 missed shots isn't going to look good to any one.

I was actually referring to Jackson's play during this playoffs series, since I haven't watched more than probably half of the Thunder's regular season games this year. By the numbers, Westbrook's shooting more than twice as often as Jackson per 36, and generally playing like crap on the offensive end -- although he is posting a much higher assist percentage and a lower turnover percentage.

Looks like my eye test was incorrect on that one. Westbrook could accurately be called Westbrick by the numbers:
http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/1110-Russell-Westbrook/season/2013-2014-POST

On the flip side, I don't remember anyone talking about abhorrent Durant's 5-21 performance in game 4 -- Who wants to see 16 missed shots?. Probably because they won that game. Probably because he's Kevin Durant, and Westbrook is the whipping boy on that squad.

Probably because shooting a lot at a low efficiency is a real abnormality for Durant and yet a pretty common state of things for Westbrook.

It isn't just one game and it isn't just one playoff series.  These are trends that have been going on for a while.

[Snakehead]

TP for the stats ^.  As I said before I agree and feels right to see the stats follow that up.

Durant has had a tough series but I think it's clear that he is almost always super efficient.

All the stats, eye tests, how he holds the ball, tries to play hero ball... Just not a fan.  And again talents there.  I loved him coming into the league I just wouldn't want him on my team or to be the PG on my Durant featured team.  Obviously there has been success and a few times a game he makes some remarkable plays but the team could be better.  When it's ugly it can get very ugly.