Say OKC gets booted , would they trade Westbrook for Rondo then ? and would you?

[BballTim]

You need to pair 2~3 hall of famers around Rondo to win titles
Rondo isn't just can't shoot/score, he slows down the whole team's offense flow

   The Celtics went to game 7 of the finals in 2010 and those 2-3 hofers combined to get fewer all-nba votes than Chris Kaman. Not that I think that's a realistic commentary on their level of play that year, but neither is HOFers. He needs to be surrounded by good players for his team to do well, just like anyone else. But it's not like he needs the 2008 (or younger) versions of the big three.

[D.o.s.]

You need to pair 2~3 hall of famers around Rondo to win titles
Rondo isn't just can't shoot/score, he slows down the whole team's offense flow

   The Celtics went to game 7 of the finals in 2010 and those 2-3 hofers combined to get fewer all-nba votes than Chris Kaman. Not that I think that's a realistic commentary on their level of play that year, but neither is HOFers. He needs to be surrounded by good players for his team to do well, just like anyone else. But it's not like he needs the 2008 (or younger) versions of the big three.

Not to dredge up the arguments about whether or not Rondo as the best player, but surely the jury is still out on how well he performs as the hands down best player on the post-KG/Pierce Celtics for 82 games?

[BballTim]

You need to pair 2~3 hall of famers around Rondo to win titles
Rondo isn't just can't shoot/score, he slows down the whole team's offense flow

   The Celtics went to game 7 of the finals in 2010 and those 2-3 hofers combined to get fewer all-nba votes than Chris Kaman. Not that I think that's a realistic commentary on their level of play that year, but neither is HOFers. He needs to be surrounded by good players for his team to do well, just like anyone else. But it's not like he needs the 2008 (or younger) versions of the big three.

Not to dredge up the arguments about whether or not Rondo as the best player, but surely the jury is still out on how well he performs as the hands down best player on the post-KG/Pierce Celtics for 82 games?

   Sure, same with Westbrook and the bulk of the star players in the league. We've seen plenty of stars generally fail when they were hands down the best player on their team (Wade, Kobe, KG, PP, Ray, Griffin et al), some of them with mixed results, some not so much.

[D.o.s.]

Agreed, but I don't know if I'd put Wade on that list -- he was definitely the best player on that '06 team, and even if that Finals series was officiated terribly (spoiler: it was) the Mavericks didn't get jobbed so much as Wade went above and beyond any wing we've seen since (but not before, obviously). "generally failed" is a pretty broad term, though, so he could fit there most of the time, esp. with his injury trouble.

[Celtics18]

If Rondo can't find an open man and he's left wide open, does he make a wide open jump shot?

The answer to that is:

At a slightly better rate than Russell Westbrook.

[BballTim]

Agreed, but I don't know if I'd put Wade on that list -- he was definitely the best player on that '06 team, and even if that Finals series was officiated terribly (spoiler: it was) the Mavericks didn't get jobbed so much as Wade went above and beyond any wing we've seen since (but not before, obviously). "generally failed" is a pretty broad term, though, so he could fit there most of the time, esp. with his injury trouble.

  Shaq was first team all-nba that year. He was better than you give him credit for.

[D.o.s.]

Not saying Shaq played badly, but he was definitely the Kobe to Wade's Shaq in 2006.

If Rondo can't find an open man and he's left wide open, does he make a wide open jump shot?

The answer to that is:

At a slightly better rate than Russell Westbrook.

Perhaps the more salient question is -- does Rondo take the wide open jump shot?

Not intended as a better/worse thing.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Wade + Shaq + Joey Crawford was an elite Big 3 that year in the Finals

[BballTim]

Not saying Shaq played badly, but he was definitely the Kobe to Wade's Shaq in 2006.

If Rondo can't find an open man and he's left wide open, does he make a wide open jump shot?

The answer to that is:

At a slightly better rate than Russell Westbrook.

Perhaps the more salient question is -- does Rondo take the wide open jump shot?

Not intended as a better/worse thing.

  If there isn't a better option, does Rondo take the shot? That question was much more salient in 2008 or 2009. Rondo didn't hit all of his jumpers last year but he showed that he wasn't afraid to take them. Just like he did the previous few years.

[Snakehead]

From Tom Haberstroh


"That is the average length of time that Westbrook has possessed the ball in between passes this postseason. Actually, it's 8.7 seconds, to be exact. Sometimes it's longer than that, sometimes a bit shorter. Almost nine seconds on average.

This is what we've learned from Spor****'s 3D cameras that have tracked every possession of every game this season. Westbrook pounds the ball more than anybody in the NBA. In the regular season, Westbrook received a HabersTrophy in the ball-hogging category by averaging 7.8 seconds of possession between passes, the highest such rate in the NBA during the regular season.

You thought that was sticky? The ball has been sticking like glue this postseason. Westbrook's NBA-high ball-hogging rate has now crept up in the postseason, and he's shooting 34 percent from the floor and 18 percent from downtown. His average time of possession is by far the highest of any point guard this postseason.

And now the Oklahoma City Thunder are one loss away from a first-round exit."

This guy is ruining their team.  I love his talent level and athleticisim but everything else is miserable.  Yes he is a firey competitor and sometimes that's awesome but plenty of times it backfires and he has poor floor vision and low basketball IQ.  Not a PG.

OKC should wish they had Rondo and we should absolutely hold onto Rondo over taking Westbrook on.  He'd put up numbers but our team would suffer.

[Celtics18]

From Tom Haberstroh


"That is the average length of time that Westbrook has possessed the ball in between passes this postseason. Actually, it's 8.7 seconds, to be exact. Sometimes it's longer than that, sometimes a bit shorter. Almost nine seconds on average.

This is what we've learned from Spor****'s 3D cameras that have tracked every possession of every game this season. Westbrook pounds the ball more than anybody in the NBA. In the regular season, Westbrook received a HabersTrophy in the ball-hogging category by averaging 7.8 seconds of possession between passes, the highest such rate in the NBA during the regular season.

You thought that was sticky? The ball has been sticking like glue this postseason. Westbrook's NBA-high ball-hogging rate has now crept up in the postseason, and he's shooting 34 percent from the floor and 18 percent from downtown. His average time of possession is by far the highest of any point guard this postseason.

And now the Oklahoma City Thunder are one loss away from a first-round exit."

This guy is ruining their team.  I love his talent level and athleticisim but everything else is miserable.  Yes he is a firey competitor and sometimes that's awesome but plenty of times it backfires and he has poor floor vision and low basketball IQ.  Not a PG.

Ah, the "pounding the ball" angle rears it's ugly head. 

[Snakehead]

Ah, the "pounding the ball" angle rears it's ugly head.

I'm not much on it say as a criticism of Rondo, but look at the data for that.  Rondo was like middle of the pack as far as that went.  Westbrook leads the league in the regular season and post season.  He is clearly not a passer and he has hurt his team.  He is shooting terribly and taking more than 30 shots last night.  I can't see what there is to defend.  He is not a smart player and he should be taking the most blame for what OKC is going through.

[Celtics18]

Here's what I'm taking from many of you on this argument:

"Rondo hasn't proven he can lead a team to title contention [even though he actually has], therefore we'll assume that he can't.

It hasn't been proven that Westbrook can't lead a team to title contention, therefore we'll assume that he can."

I'm sure I'm getting that wrong, though.

[D.o.s.]

Ah, the "pounding the ball" angle rears it's ugly head.

I'm not much on it say as a criticism of Rondo, but look at the data for that.  Rondo was like middle of the pack as far as that went.  Westbrook leads the league in the regular season and post season.  He is clearly not a passer and he has hurt his team.  He is shooting terribly and taking more than 30 shots last night.  I can't see what there is to defend.  He is not a smart player and he should be taking the most blame for what OKC is going through.

Maybe you should try reading the thread. There's lots of good info on both sides of the debate.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I would be down with Westbrook if we drafted Exum somehow at 5.  I think a Westbrook / Exum backcourt would be ridiculously entertaining.  W / E and then Green / Sully / Asik with Olynyk as the 6th man. What a weird team that would be.