Author Topic: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment  (Read 16040 times)

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Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #105 on: April 14, 2018, 03:28:52 PM »

Offline feckless

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That being said, if someone calls it to our attention that maybe a particular statement is not very tactful, should we say ok and not use that term around them, or should we dig in and bring up the Constitution and other reasons why there's no negative intent, etc. etc. etc.

I don’t think anybody objects to being politely educated about an offensive phrase.

Taking away somebody’s paycheck for using a phrase in common usage is another thing entirely.

Common usage for which type of people?

I'm in my 30's and have never used this term. I get your point if you're talking to an 80 year old. We should let things slide for older people, in my opinion.

I don’t know what the age cut off is, but is there anybody who grew up in the 80s or before who hasn’t heard the phrase?

I’ve def heard it, just haven’t used it. I also didn’t need to do a Google search to realize that it is a statement that a young white man should not be making.

That’s because our education system has let you down, leaving you with the impression that “cotton picking” automatically refers to blacks.

Nothing to do with our education system the obvious historic fact that predominantly slaves picked cotton and slaves are predominantly associated with picking cotton is all that is needed for it to automatically refer to blacks.  Seems ridiculous, to me, to give it any other meaning.  Read the full context of the earlier referenced phrase research.

I am in my late 60's and old enough to have heard and used the phrase.  I had never thought about the origin but when I think about how and when the phrase is used it has a racial undertone and I have been enlightened.
Since you think it is a racist phrase and you admit to using it, I think you should apologize to every black person you encounter for the next week. 

Edit:  Of course if you do so, they'll probably think that you're out of your cotton-picking mind.   ;D

Do you realize how childish/silly you sound?  This was something I probably used when it was a more common phrase when I was a child.  Why can't you just think about it, open your eyes like the Oklahoma Thunder and the announcer who said it and realize it is an antiquated phrase that was meant to demean people and has a racist Jim Crow derivation.

It’s not really any of those things, though. It’s a replacement for “da—“.

Quote
The phrase “cotton picking” arose in the southern U.S. states sometime during the 1700s and was used to describe something that was unpleasant or troublesome.  Back then, cotton was a garden crop tended by white as well as black Southerners and the cotton was turned into cloth for home use in much the same that flax was turned into cloth for home use in the North.

“Cotton-picking” became part of the vernacular in the U.S. and in time, it was the phrase swapped in for unacceptable comments such as “God-[dang]” or “[dang]” when in polite society or if women were present.

The verdict:  Cotton pickin’ minute is not a racial slur but calling someone a cotton picker could be considered an insult.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/idiomation.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/cotton-pickin-minute/amp/

Quote
Definition of cotton-picking

1 : [dang]ed —used as a generalized expression of disapproval a cotton-picking hypocrite
2 : [dang]ed —used as an intensive
out of his cotton-picking mind —Irving Kristol

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cotton-picking

Every neutral site I look at suggests that it’s basically an expression of contempt / cuss word related not to race, but rather to the fact that cotton picking is grueling, painful work.

The origin of the phrase is up for debate, but with the history of slavery in America the comment has been construed by people as racist. Thunder Vice President of Broadcasting Dan Mahoney told The Norman Transcript Davis' comments were "offensive and inappropriate."

The Thunder and Brian Davis (he apologized) disagree that it is not racist.  Cotton picking is and has been identified as a slave function.  Cotton Picking may be the primary purpose for slavery in the South.  On reflection I see it as likely having a racist derivation and undertone in it's use.  None of the explanations here have been definitive.  I am the first to admit that I have been wrong before.

So Brian Davis thought it was racist, but used it anyway? Odd that he was able to keep his job.

As for the Thunder, it’s easier to punish somebody without fault than it is to stand up to the SJW’s constantly claiming “offense”.  As a rule of thumb, it’s easier to say “no can do” and sell your employees down the river than it is to tell the peanut gallery of SJWs  that they’re out of their cotton-pickin’ minds.

Or maybe like me he never had thought about it and when he reflected on what it likely meant he realized he should not have said it in regard to a black man?
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #106 on: April 14, 2018, 03:35:10 PM »

Online Roy H.

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That being said, if someone calls it to our attention that maybe a particular statement is not very tactful, should we say ok and not use that term around them, or should we dig in and bring up the Constitution and other reasons why there's no negative intent, etc. etc. etc.

I don’t think anybody objects to being politely educated about an offensive phrase.

Taking away somebody’s paycheck for using a phrase in common usage is another thing entirely.

Common usage for which type of people?

I'm in my 30's and have never used this term. I get your point if you're talking to an 80 year old. We should let things slide for older people, in my opinion.

I don’t know what the age cut off is, but is there anybody who grew up in the 80s or before who hasn’t heard the phrase?

I’ve def heard it, just haven’t used it. I also didn’t need to do a Google search to realize that it is a statement that a young white man should not be making.

That’s because our education system has let you down, leaving you with the impression that “cotton picking” automatically refers to blacks.

Nothing to do with our education system the obvious historic fact that predominantly slaves picked cotton and slaves are predominantly associated with picking cotton is all that is needed for it to automatically refer to blacks.  Seems ridiculous, to me, to give it any other meaning.  Read the full context of the earlier referenced phrase research.

I am in my late 60's and old enough to have heard and used the phrase.  I had never thought about the origin but when I think about how and when the phrase is used it has a racial undertone and I have been enlightened.
Since you think it is a racist phrase and you admit to using it, I think you should apologize to every black person you encounter for the next week. 

Edit:  Of course if you do so, they'll probably think that you're out of your cotton-picking mind.   ;D

Do you realize how childish/silly you sound?  This was something I probably used when it was a more common phrase when I was a child.  Why can't you just think about it, open your eyes like the Oklahoma Thunder and the announcer who said it and realize it is an antiquated phrase that was meant to demean people and has a racist Jim Crow derivation.

It’s not really any of those things, though. It’s a replacement for “da—“.

Quote
The phrase “cotton picking” arose in the southern U.S. states sometime during the 1700s and was used to describe something that was unpleasant or troublesome.  Back then, cotton was a garden crop tended by white as well as black Southerners and the cotton was turned into cloth for home use in much the same that flax was turned into cloth for home use in the North.

“Cotton-picking” became part of the vernacular in the U.S. and in time, it was the phrase swapped in for unacceptable comments such as “God-[dang]” or “[dang]” when in polite society or if women were present.

The verdict:  Cotton pickin’ minute is not a racial slur but calling someone a cotton picker could be considered an insult.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/idiomation.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/cotton-pickin-minute/amp/

Quote
Definition of cotton-picking

1 : [dang]ed —used as a generalized expression of disapproval a cotton-picking hypocrite
2 : [dang]ed —used as an intensive
out of his cotton-picking mind —Irving Kristol

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cotton-picking

Every neutral site I look at suggests that it’s basically an expression of contempt / cuss word related not to race, but rather to the fact that cotton picking is grueling, painful work.

The origin of the phrase is up for debate, but with the history of slavery in America the comment has been construed by people as racist. Thunder Vice President of Broadcasting Dan Mahoney told The Norman Transcript Davis' comments were "offensive and inappropriate."

The Thunder and Brian Davis (he apologized) disagree that it is not racist.  Cotton picking is and has been identified as a slave function.  Cotton Picking may be the primary purpose for slavery in the South.  On reflection I see it as likely having a racist derivation and undertone in it's use.  None of the explanations here have been definitive.  I am the first to admit that I have been wrong before.

So Brian Davis thought it was racist, but used it anyway? Odd that he was able to keep his job.

As for the Thunder, it’s easier to punish somebody without fault than it is to stand up to the SJW’s constantly claiming “offense”.  As a rule of thumb, it’s easier to say “no can do” and sell your employees down the river than it is to tell the peanut gallery of SJWs  that they’re out of their cotton-pickin’ minds.

Or maybe like me he never had thought about it and when he reflected on what it likely meant he realized he should not have said it in regard to a black man?

I’ll defer to Occam’s Razor, and just assume that he wanted to keep his job.

Would it be better if he’d used it in regard to a non-black man? An Asian? A Hispanic? What about a “white Hispanic”, like George Zimmerman? A Pacific Islander? A Caucasian? What about if it was a native African who had never picked cotton? Or a white laborer who had?


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Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #107 on: April 14, 2018, 03:40:04 PM »

Offline feckless

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That being said, if someone calls it to our attention that maybe a particular statement is not very tactful, should we say ok and not use that term around them, or should we dig in and bring up the Constitution and other reasons why there's no negative intent, etc. etc. etc.

I don’t think anybody objects to being politely educated about an offensive phrase.

Taking away somebody’s paycheck for using a phrase in common usage is another thing entirely.

Common usage for which type of people?

I'm in my 30's and have never used this term. I get your point if you're talking to an 80 year old. We should let things slide for older people, in my opinion.

I don’t know what the age cut off is, but is there anybody who grew up in the 80s or before who hasn’t heard the phrase?

I’ve def heard it, just haven’t used it. I also didn’t need to do a Google search to realize that it is a statement that a young white man should not be making.

That’s because our education system has let you down, leaving you with the impression that “cotton picking” automatically refers to blacks.

Nothing to do with our education system the obvious historic fact that predominantly slaves picked cotton and slaves are predominantly associated with picking cotton is all that is needed for it to automatically refer to blacks.  Seems ridiculous, to me, to give it any other meaning.  Read the full context of the earlier referenced phrase research.

I am in my late 60's and old enough to have heard and used the phrase.  I had never thought about the origin but when I think about how and when the phrase is used it has a racial undertone and I have been enlightened.
Since you think it is a racist phrase and you admit to using it, I think you should apologize to every black person you encounter for the next week. 

Edit:  Of course if you do so, they'll probably think that you're out of your cotton-picking mind.   ;D

Do you realize how childish/silly you sound?  This was something I probably used when it was a more common phrase when I was a child.  Why can't you just think about it, open your eyes like the Oklahoma Thunder and the announcer who said it and realize it is an antiquated phrase that was meant to demean people and has a racist Jim Crow derivation.

It’s not really any of those things, though. It’s a replacement for “da—“.

Quote
The phrase “cotton picking” arose in the southern U.S. states sometime during the 1700s and was used to describe something that was unpleasant or troublesome.  Back then, cotton was a garden crop tended by white as well as black Southerners and the cotton was turned into cloth for home use in much the same that flax was turned into cloth for home use in the North.

“Cotton-picking” became part of the vernacular in the U.S. and in time, it was the phrase swapped in for unacceptable comments such as “God-[dang]” or “[dang]” when in polite society or if women were present.

The verdict:  Cotton pickin’ minute is not a racial slur but calling someone a cotton picker could be considered an insult.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/idiomation.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/cotton-pickin-minute/amp/

Quote
Definition of cotton-picking

1 : [dang]ed —used as a generalized expression of disapproval a cotton-picking hypocrite
2 : [dang]ed —used as an intensive
out of his cotton-picking mind —Irving Kristol

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cotton-picking

Every neutral site I look at suggests that it’s basically an expression of contempt / cuss word related not to race, but rather to the fact that cotton picking is grueling, painful work.

The origin of the phrase is up for debate, but with the history of slavery in America the comment has been construed by people as racist. Thunder Vice President of Broadcasting Dan Mahoney told The Norman Transcript Davis' comments were "offensive and inappropriate."

The Thunder and Brian Davis (he apologized) disagree that it is not racist.  Cotton picking is and has been identified as a slave function.  Cotton Picking may be the primary purpose for slavery in the South.  On reflection I see it as likely having a racist derivation and undertone in it's use.  None of the explanations here have been definitive.  I am the first to admit that I have been wrong before.

So Brian Davis thought it was racist, but used it anyway? Odd that he was able to keep his job.

As for the Thunder, it’s easier to punish somebody without fault than it is to stand up to the SJW’s constantly claiming “offense”.  As a rule of thumb, it’s easier to say “no can do” and sell your employees down the river than it is to tell the peanut gallery of SJWs  that they’re out of their cotton-pickin’ minds.

Or maybe like me he never had thought about it and when he reflected on what it likely meant he realized he should not have said it in regard to a black man?

I’ll defer to Occam’s Razor, and just assume that he wanted to keep his job.

Would it be better if he’d used it in regard to a non-black man? An Asian? A Hispanic? What about a “white Hispanic”, like George Zimmerman? A Pacific Islander? A Caucasian? What about if it was a native African who had never picked cotton? Or a white laborer who had?

You are probably right on wanting to keep his job.  Your other question makes my head hurt!
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #108 on: April 14, 2018, 03:41:12 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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if 5% of the population think something is racist and pipe up about it and 95% don't and keep quiet who's to be the judge? The Thunder probably wanted to head this off at the pass before it blew up - like things tend to do in the social media age.


As for the Thunder, it’s easier to punish somebody without fault than it is to stand up to the SJW’s constantly claiming “offense”.

Both of these comments seem to very much be what has happened here. But my question is how do combat this? Should the rest of us just roll over willingly? What do you do when you correct someone on the actual meaning of something but they choose to ignore you?

It seems like the loudest among us, no matter how wrong they may or may not be, ultimately end up dictating things. 

Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #109 on: April 14, 2018, 03:50:46 PM »

Online Roy H.

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if 5% of the population think something is racist and pipe up about it and 95% don't and keep quiet who's to be the judge? The Thunder probably wanted to head this off at the pass before it blew up - like things tend to do in the social media age.


As for the Thunder, it’s easier to punish somebody without fault than it is to stand up to the SJW’s constantly claiming “offense”.

Both of these comments seem to very much be what has happened here. But my question is how do combat this? Should the rest of us just roll over willingly? What do you do when you correct someone on the actual meaning of something but they choose to ignore you?

It seems like the loudest among us, no matter how wrong they may or may not be, ultimately end up dictating things.

No idea, other than voting and debating.

The idiot we have in office (and the last two governors I’ve lived under, Chris Christie and Paul LePage) are the result of a backlash against this. Nixon’s “silent majority” still cares.

What we need are good politicians that don’t fold as easily as the Thunder or Laura Ingram’s advertisers. We need candidates of conviction who aren’t pompous bullies.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 04:19:21 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #110 on: April 14, 2018, 04:10:28 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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if 5% of the population think something is racist and pipe up about it and 95% don't and keep quiet who's to be the judge? The Thunder probably wanted to head this off at the pass before it blew up - like things tend to do in the social media age.


As for the Thunder, it’s easier to punish somebody without fault than it is to stand up to the SJW’s constantly claiming “offense”.

Both of these comments seem to very much be what has happened here. But my question is how do combat this? Should the rest of us just roll over willingly? What do you do when you correct someone on the actual meaning of something but they choose to ignore you?

It seems like the loudest among us, no matter how wrong they may or may not be, ultimately end up dictating things.
The squeakiest wheel does get the grease.

I am torn between the sides of being politically correct and then going overboard with it. Obviously, I think people who view this as offensive or racist in nature are probably much more politically correct than those that don't see it as offensive or racist. Of course, there is also the group that just don't think its offensive or racist because they believe the saying has nothing to do with race and never did. There's been ample evidence provided that this could be the case.

I can see where the term "cotton pickin" was originally used as a derogative against slaves. But I also think it evolved and certain phrases where "cotton pickin" is used is just not used as a racist remark. "Cotton pickin minute" and "Cotton pickin mind" seem to be in this group.

Who's to say what is racist and what isn't? I don't have an answer for that. There are definitely a group of people who are going to be very vocal on both sides. Only time will tell whether terms like this will be seen as racist or not and time will probably cause the term to stop being used if it is found as offensive.

Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #111 on: April 14, 2018, 04:25:29 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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It sounds like the term "cotton-picking" and its racial connotations has become a topic of debate here. This baffles me. I thought we had collectively moved past what is a decent thing to say, and what is not. It is clear to me that some things are not what I thought they were.

I didn't know much about this statement until I started googling around its multiple meanings. Some were benign, and a couple of interpretations were really ugly. This is one of these terms that I've decided is a third rail for myself. There are a bunch of others that I would get in trouble for using here in this forum.

I find it strange that people feel passionately about defending the right to say something. I love the first amendment, but not if it creates pain for others. While I'm not offended by much of anything, I don't feel the need to get defensive when others say something doesn't sound right to them. Race related jokes or comments in the public forum are held to a higher standard. I can't tell a black person how they should feel about something said on TV, and vice-versa. So again, I'm not offended, but I could see how people (including Westbrook) would be offended.

I heard the clip. It sounded awkward at best and racist at worst. I am assuming that it was just a dated attempt at humor that fell flat. The perception is different than the intent. The intent should be considered, but what was said can't be unsaid. Yes, it sucks that the guy is getting suspended. It is likely an overreaction by a company that is sensitive to race relations. All things being equal, a quick apology from him would have been best.

I don't understand people that are trying to defend the use of the term "cotton-picking" as a metaphor. Such a conversation crosses a line of decency.

Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #112 on: April 14, 2018, 04:30:04 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I find it strange that people feel passionately about defending the right to say something

I feel passionate about not punishing people for things that aren’t intended to be offensive.

For instance:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/student-dressed-in-a-bacon-outfit-slammed-by-cnn-commentator-for-being-anti-semitic

What percentage of people being offended does it take to suppress speech? Is one ignorant moron enough? 10? Give me a number at which point the average person should change their ways to accommodate the most radical and/or thin-skinned among us?

Quote
I don't understand people that are trying to defend the use of the term "cotton-picking" as a metaphor. Such a conversation crosses a line of decency.

Lol. Really? Are you going to censor terms like [d—n], For God’s Sake, Holy Cow, and “Jesus Christ” because they’re offensive to Christians? Is talking about their place in our language such an affront that it crosses a line of decency?

“Cotton picking” as a cuss word / adjective started because picking cotton was a really crappy activity, quite literally talking about the actual picking of cotton.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 04:56:49 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #113 on: April 14, 2018, 05:18:14 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I don't believe you can tell anyone else what they can and can't be offended by. If someone is offended by something that you're not, it doesn't make the offended party wrong, it means that we all have different sensibilities.

I'm personally surprised that this phrase is found to be offensive. I understand why someone might take offense but I also wonder if anyone here was personally offended by the phrase or just worried about its possible offense to others?

I do want to push back on this idea that liberals are more oversensitive or more prone to overreaction than conservatives. Many liberals are certainly oversensitive but not anymore than the types of conservatives who want to boycott Starbucks for changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays on their paper cups, who post videos of themselves on youtube destroying keurigs as some weird solidarity with Sean Hannity, or who decry the NFL kneeling (a harmless expression that was initially suggested by a navy seal and yet many conservatives want people to lose their jobs over it).

Oversensitivity and overreaction is, unfortunately, a non partisan hobby.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 08:43:32 AM by Big333223 »
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Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #114 on: April 14, 2018, 06:02:54 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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I find it strange that people feel passionately about defending the right to say something.

I don't think it's strange. As long as it's not something like yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, people should be able to speak their mind.

I love the first amendment, but not if it creates pain for others.

Depends on how you define "pain." I certainly don't think "disagreement" can be straight-up equated with "pain."

I don't understand people that are trying to defend the use of the term "cotton-picking" as a metaphor. Such a conversation crosses a line of decency.

I don't think it's indecent to have this discussion. I think this type of discussion can be healthy and productive.

Are you going to censor terms like [d—n], For God’s Sake, Holy Cow, and “Jesus Christ” because they’re offensive to Christians? Is talking about their place in our language such an affront that it crosses a line of decency?

As a Christian, I certainly wish no one would use "Jesus Christ" as a pejorative, but I don't think having a discussion about it crosses a line of decency. Such discussions would probably increase understanding across various subgroups.
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Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #115 on: April 14, 2018, 06:07:57 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I don't understand people that are trying to defend the use of the term "cotton-picking" as a metaphor. Such a conversation crosses a line of decency.

Lol. Really? Are you going to censor terms like [d—n], For God’s Sake, Holy Cow, and “Jesus Christ” because they’re offensive to Christians? Is talking about their place in our language such an affront that it crosses a line of decency?
This forum does, so...
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Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #116 on: April 14, 2018, 07:09:46 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I don't believe you can tell anyone else what they can and can't be offended by. If someone is offended by something that you're not, it doesn't make the offended party wrong, it means that we all have different sensibilities.

Well, obviously you can't stop someone from feeling however they do, but you certainly can try to explain to them why they might be wrong for feeling the way they do.  If someone feels offended based on a misunderstanding of the intent or meaning of something, the hope would be that after explaining this they might see they were wrong.  Of course, the opposite could be true as well, and the person who feels offended was correct in their understanding of what was said.

As it pertains to the topic being discussed here, I'm just not sure how anyone could not see that there is no racial basis behind the phrase in question.  It's strictly about a mental condition (delirium) caused by the onset of heat stroke while picking cotton (something that is most certainly not exclusive to slaves).  That really isn't debatable, it is a fact that this is where the phrase came from and that it predates slavery.  Yes, different phrases that use the term "cotton picking" have been used in a racially derogatory manner, specifically towards black slaves, but the various phrases aren't the same and should not preclude the use of a specific term that doesn't inherently imply racial bias.

Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #117 on: April 14, 2018, 09:21:00 PM »

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I still hear people saying “taken behind the woodshed”, which I guess is racist too.

Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #118 on: April 14, 2018, 09:28:51 PM »

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I still hear people saying “taken behind the woodshed”, which I guess is racist too.

I know of white men who were taken behind the woodshed for punishment when they were young, so I don't see this saying as racist.
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Re: OKC announcer suspended 1 game for offensive comment
« Reply #119 on: April 14, 2018, 10:32:46 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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I think that announcers should stop screaming whatever comes into their head to hype up a play to get the fans excited.

He should have said "Westbrook gets the rebound".

That announcer should follow Mike Gorman around for a while.

Stay away from Tommy though.