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Brown and Rozier
« on: January 11, 2019, 11:55:04 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.   

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2019, 12:41:43 PM »

Offline bopna

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I have no more hopes for Rozier..

He is only looking for his shot. Momentum killer and is playing for himself not the team.

Jaylen is Jeff Green in the flesh.. Serviceable at times but useless next game hence he has a bit more value than Rozier..

Go get Vucevic if possible.. Hope Danny is tired of this crap.

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2019, 12:51:33 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.

Its not obvious. I firmly believe he will be an all star. Its a strange time to be peddling this take, he has been dissapointing on the whole this year but the last month and a half he has been pretty much what he was during the playoffs (on a per 36 basis). And the previous five games (before his Miami dud), he was even better. What he us now is already better than the role players you want to trade him for, and thats before you factor in what he could be.

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2019, 12:56:02 PM »

Offline wiley

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I disagree on both players. 

I think Terry is very team oriented, but just a super aggressive offensive player.  He may be pressing too hard due to short minutes, that's all.  Just about every time he starts there are good results.  I cannot knock a player like this.  It's a little greedy of people to expect us to have a "star" backup PG along the likes of Jeremy Lin/JJ Barea, to go with all of our max type players.  I like his rebounding and I think he has a bit of the clutch gene.

Brown is not at all like Jeff Green.  If anything Brown is TOO emotional.  This is not Jeff Green territory.  Brown's problem is minutes.  Nothing more.   He may not play with the same IQ as Hayward yet, he may not have a perfect BBIQ, but it's not a bad IQ at all for a 21 year old.  If he's kept, he'll eventually be a starter and prove himself worthy.  If he's traded he'll get back to last year's production sooner but for another team.   


Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2019, 01:01:45 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.   
"need to go"?  hardly.  there is no "need" to move either of them.

Jaylen's young and in just his 3rd year.  what he showed last year was a lot of improvement and potential.  Having to adjust to a lesser role has taken time but he's showing recently that he's getting it.  one hot take after a bad game doesn't change that.  He provides the C's with someone capable of playing great D with the potential to provide 20 points off the bench.  In combination with Hayward off the bench, that's a potent rotation.

Rozier, he is what he is.  inconsistent and needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective.  Not someone I'd be adverse to moving before the deadline if it gets us a vet back up PG that is better at running an offense and provides a more consistent effort on both ends of the floor.  I don't like shaking up a roster that has the pieces to make a deep run in the playoffs unless it's a clear improvement or in Rozier's case, getting something for a player that would otherwise be allowed to walk in the offseason for nothing.  I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him --> this would not be a situation where we'd improve by subtraction.

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2019, 01:01:48 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I disagree on both players. 

I think Terry is very team oriented, but just a super aggressive offensive player.  He may be pressing too hard due to short minutes, that's all.  Just about every time he starts there are good results.  I cannot knock a player like this.  It's a little greedy of people to expect us to have a "star" backup PG along the likes of Jeremy Lin/JJ Barea, to go with all of our max type players.  I like his rebounding and I think he has a bit of the clutch gene.

Brown is not at all like Jeff Green.  If anything Brown is TOO emotional.  This is not Jeff Green territory.  Brown's problem is minutes.  Nothing more.   He may not play with the same IQ as Hayward yet, he may not have a perfect BBIQ, but it's not a bad IQ at all for a 21 year old.  If he's kept, he'll eventually be a starter and prove himself worthy.  If he's traded he'll get back to last year's production sooner but for another team.
I love how people want to make brown younger.  Dude has been 22 since October.  For most good players, the rapid growth occurs until about this age.  Any improvement here on will be mostly incremental.  He may look different or better in another situation but that does not make him better.

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2019, 01:03:25 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.   
"need to go"?  hardly.  there is no "need" to move either of them.

Jaylen's young and in just his 3rd year.  what he showed last year was a lot of improvement and potential.  Having to adjust to a lesser role has taken time but he's showing recently that he's getting it.  one hot take after a bad game doesn't change that.  He provides the C's with someone capable of playing great D with the potential to provide 20 points off the bench.  In combination with Hayward off the bench, that's a potent rotation.

Rozier, he is what he is.  inconsistent and needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective.  Not someone I'd be adverse to moving before the deadline if it gets us a vet back up PG that is better at running an offense and provides a more consistent effort on both ends of the floor.  I don't like shaking up a roster that has the pieces to make a deep run in the playoffs unless it's a clear improvement or in Rozier's case, getting something for a player that would otherwise be allowed to walk in the offseason for nothing.  I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him --> this would not be a situation where we'd improve by subtraction.
I posted this in October, before we played a single game.  It's not a hot take, it's an evaluation of the players and the team.  We need more complimentary guys.

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2019, 01:13:13 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.   
"need to go"?  hardly.  there is no "need" to move either of them.

Jaylen's young and in just his 3rd year.  what he showed last year was a lot of improvement and potential.  Having to adjust to a lesser role has taken time but he's showing recently that he's getting it.  one hot take after a bad game doesn't change that.  He provides the C's with someone capable of playing great D with the potential to provide 20 points off the bench.  In combination with Hayward off the bench, that's a potent rotation.

Rozier, he is what he is.  inconsistent and needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective.  Not someone I'd be adverse to moving before the deadline if it gets us a vet back up PG that is better at running an offense and provides a more consistent effort on both ends of the floor.  I don't like shaking up a roster that has the pieces to make a deep run in the playoffs unless it's a clear improvement or in Rozier's case, getting something for a player that would otherwise be allowed to walk in the offseason for nothing.  I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him --> this would not be a situation where we'd improve by subtraction.
I posted this in October, before we played a single game.  It's not a hot take, it's an evaluation of the players and the team.  We need more complimentary guys.
no we don't.

Rozier's complimentary anyway - a different complimentary player would possibly be better but the question is, who would that be that would be worth disrupting the team chemistry.  granted, the chemistry has been a bit off at times but any deal would have to be a clear improvement over what Rozier can provide. 

Brown isn't complimentary, he's starter caliber coming off the bench and he seems to have adjusted to his role over the past several weeks.  I have no desire to get rid of that caliber of player for a 'complimentary' player.   in addition to that, considering the C's are a "live by the 3, die by the 3" team, Brown's one of our better drive-to-the-basket players.  I fault Brad's offensive schemes for focussing too much on outside shots than driving to the basket far more than I fault Brown in that regard.

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2019, 01:16:44 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.

I agree with you - especially on Rozier. Personally, I think you can replace Rozier with a guy like Jeremy Lin and have a much more consistent 2nd unit.
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Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2019, 02:03:16 PM »

Offline Silky

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I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.

no one on this team has start potential.

As evidenced by no one outside of Kyrie making star plays, well maybe Marcus Smart as he has a knack for making game changing plays

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2019, 03:17:13 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I disagree on both players. 

I think Terry is very team oriented, but just a super aggressive offensive player.  He may be pressing too hard due to short minutes, that's all.  Just about every time he starts there are good results.  I cannot knock a player like this.  It's a little greedy of people to expect us to have a "star" backup PG along the likes of Jeremy Lin/JJ Barea, to go with all of our max type players.  I like his rebounding and I think he has a bit of the clutch gene.

Brown is not at all like Jeff Green.  If anything Brown is TOO emotional.  This is not Jeff Green territory.  Brown's problem is minutes.  Nothing more.   He may not play with the same IQ as Hayward yet, he may not have a perfect BBIQ, but it's not a bad IQ at all for a 21 year old.  If he's kept, he'll eventually be a starter and prove himself worthy.  If he's traded he'll get back to last year's production sooner but for another team.
I love how people want to make brown younger.  Dude has been 22 since October.  For most good players, the rapid growth occurs until about this age.  Any improvement here on will be mostly incremental.  He may look different or better in another situation but that does not make him better.

This is just flat out wrong. Look at guys like Butler, George, Kawhi, Hayward, Oladipo. None of those guys reach the levels representative of their peaks untill at least age 23 (George), if not age 24 (Kawhi, Hayward) or 25 (Butler, Oladipo). For most MVP level players you may be right, but plenty of 2nd or 3rd team all nba level guys ( especially wings) keep improving all the way up to their early primes around age 26.

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2019, 03:21:28 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I disagree on both players. 

I think Terry is very team oriented, but just a super aggressive offensive player.  He may be pressing too hard due to short minutes, that's all.  Just about every time he starts there are good results.  I cannot knock a player like this.  It's a little greedy of people to expect us to have a "star" backup PG along the likes of Jeremy Lin/JJ Barea, to go with all of our max type players.  I like his rebounding and I think he has a bit of the clutch gene.

Brown is not at all like Jeff Green.  If anything Brown is TOO emotional.  This is not Jeff Green territory.  Brown's problem is minutes.  Nothing more.   He may not play with the same IQ as Hayward yet, he may not have a perfect BBIQ, but it's not a bad IQ at all for a 21 year old.  If he's kept, he'll eventually be a starter and prove himself worthy.  If he's traded he'll get back to last year's production sooner but for another team.
I love how people want to make brown younger.  Dude has been 22 since October.  For most good players, the rapid growth occurs until about this age.  Any improvement here on will be mostly incremental.  He may look different or better in another situation but that does not make him better.

This is just flat out wrong. Look at guys like Butler, George, Kawhi, Hayward, Oladipo. None of those guys reach the levels representative of their peaks untill at least age 23 (George), if not age 24 (Kawhi, Hayward) or 25 (Butler, Oladipo). For most MVP level players you may be right, but plenty of 2nd or 3rd team all nba level guys ( especially wings) keep improving all the way up to their early primes around age 26.

But those guys are special talents.
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C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2019, 03:50:00 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Brown is already a good player. Time will tell if he ever becomes a great player, but I see no need to trade him Unless it is part of a package for a legit star.

With Terry, I think his departure is inevitable. He ads very little this season unless Kyrie goes down.


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Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2019, 04:25:21 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.   
"need to go"?  hardly.  there is no "need" to move either of them.

Jaylen's young and in just his 3rd year.  what he showed last year was a lot of improvement and potential.  Having to adjust to a lesser role has taken time but he's showing recently that he's getting it.  one hot take after a bad game doesn't change that.  He provides the C's with someone capable of playing great D with the potential to provide 20 points off the bench.  In combination with Hayward off the bench, that's a potent rotation.

Rozier, he is what he is.  inconsistent and needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective.  Not someone I'd be adverse to moving before the deadline if it gets us a vet back up PG that is better at running an offense and provides a more consistent effort on both ends of the floor.  I don't like shaking up a roster that has the pieces to make a deep run in the playoffs unless it's a clear improvement or in Rozier's case, getting something for a player that would otherwise be allowed to walk in the offseason for nothing.  I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him --> this would not be a situation where we'd improve by subtraction.
I posted this in October, before we played a single game.  It's not a hot take, it's an evaluation of the players and the team.  We need more complimentary guys.

Just because you stated it before doesnt make it legit. It seems to me you waited until he has a bad game to reinforce your statement. Where was this when he was playing really well the last few games?

This board's overreaction is really bad atm. I think a lot of you have an unreal expectation that this is going to be a smooth season. Newsflash, this is reality. Teams and players have ups and downs, what's important is you have to get it when playoffs start.

Btw, 22 is young. Some rookies are even older than that.

Re: Brown and Rozier
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2019, 05:02:36 PM »

Offline playdream

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I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.   
"need to go"?  hardly.  there is no "need" to move either of them.

Jaylen's young and in just his 3rd year.  what he showed last year was a lot of improvement and potential.  Having to adjust to a lesser role has taken time but he's showing recently that he's getting it.  one hot take after a bad game doesn't change that.  He provides the C's with someone capable of playing great D with the potential to provide 20 points off the bench.  In combination with Hayward off the bench, that's a potent rotation.

Rozier, he is what he is.  inconsistent and needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective.  Not someone I'd be adverse to moving before the deadline if it gets us a vet back up PG that is better at running an offense and provides a more consistent effort on both ends of the floor.  I don't like shaking up a roster that has the pieces to make a deep run in the playoffs unless it's a clear improvement or in Rozier's case, getting something for a player that would otherwise be allowed to walk in the offseason for nothing.  I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him --> this would not be a situation where we'd improve by subtraction.
I posted this in October, before we played a single game.  It's not a hot take, it's an evaluation of the players and the team.  We need more complimentary guys.

Just because you stated it before doesnt make it legit. It seems to me you waited until he has a bad game to reinforce your statement. Where was this when he was playing really well the last few games?

This board's overreaction is really bad atm. I think a lot of you have an unreal expectation that this is going to be a smooth season. Newsflash, this is reality. Teams and players have ups and downs, what's important is you have to get it when playoffs start.

Btw, 22 is young. Some rookies are even older than that.
Brown was terrible on D those previous games in general, people just give him a pass since his O came back, the fact is you can't be lazy on D no matter you are 22 or anything