Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick

[CELTICSofBOSTON]

Who else is legitimately p---ed?

[PickNRoll]

I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.

If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.

I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.

 Nope.  Prime Paul Pierce is more valuable than prime CJ McCollum, regardless of era.

Are people really thinking Jackson is suddenly going to develop a shot and turn into a Paul Pierce level player? Unless he somehow develops a really reliable shot and takes that ridiculous hitch out of his shot, I don't see how he comes anywhere close to Pierce's level.

Isn't Smart a really big recent example of this fallacious notion of drafting players hoping they'll improve their shots? I still think Smart was a good pick given the options that we had at that time, but we literally have the first pick of the draft in this scenario. There's no use in gambling on something like that.

EDIT: I feel like Tatum is a much more apt Pierce comparison than Jackson.

But Jackson shot a better % from 3 than Fultz over the 2nd half of the season.

[mctyson]

Clearly Ainge doesn't believe Fultz is a transcendent player or he thinks there are 2 others in the draft.

Fultz is not a "transcendent" player, whatever that means nowadays.  If we are talking about perennial MVPs...those guys come around 5 times every 20-25 years, and they don't lead teams to 9-22 records in college.  Can he be great? Maybe.  Is he James Harden redux? Maybe.  Is James Harden redux the centerpiece to an NBA Champion.  Probably not.

I think Ainge knows this.  Picking Fultz is the safe play. Ainge doesn't like safe.

[the_gunner]

I'm a bit ambivalent with this trade, as I'm really looking forward to see the Celtics get a star like Fultz.

On the other hand, if we can get Jackson and at the same time Davis, then I think we will be contenders for years to come and maybe be a real force for many years to come.

Is it even possible to make a trade in which we can get Davis without giving up the core of our team? What kind of a trade would that be?

[BitterJim]

I would so much rather have an elite pick and roll scorer type prospect than a guy who projects as a kind of Gerald Wallace / Joe Johnson / Andre Iguodala type player.

Look, if we were sitting at #3 after the lottery I'd be all about Josh Jackson.

Fultz is a better prospect. 

I know we already have a great lead scoring guard in Thomas, but he won't last forever.  To me the value of a prospect like Fultz is exponentially higher than a guy like Jackson.

The chances of him becoming another tweener who can't shoot (e.g. MKG, Winslow, Johnson, etc) seem a lot higher than the chance he becomes Kawhi Leonard.

If it helps, think of Jackson as a Paul Pierce type.  And Fultz as CJ McCollum.  That's in play.

I think in today's league the McCollum type prospect is more valuable.

 Nope.  Prime Paul Pierce is more valuable than prime CJ McCollum, regardless of era.

Are people really thinking Jackson is suddenly going to develop a shot and turn into a Paul Pierce level player? Unless he somehow develops a really reliable shot and takes that ridiculous hitch out of his shot, I don't see how he comes anywhere close to Pierce's level.

Isn't Smart a really big recent example of this fallacious notion of drafting players hoping they'll improve their shots? I still think Smart was a good pick given the options that we had at that time, but we literally have the first pick of the draft in this scenario. There's no use in gambling on something like that.

EDIT: I feel like Tatum is a much more apt Pierce comparison than Jackson.

I like Andre Iguodala as a Jackson comp much more than Pierce

Yep, and I LOVE Andre Iguodala.

But not when the Celts could draft somebody who compares favorably to Dame Lillard, James Harden, or Gilbert Arenas (prime) instead.


Iggy's whole deal, his whole career, is that he was a really super nice player who couldn't be the best player on a serious team.  That's not the kind of player you want to take at the top of the draft.

Agreed 100%. I always hated playing against him in Philly because of his D on Pierce.  Iguodala would be a good outcome for a #3 pick (and if he became "Iguodala with a good shot", even better), but we have a chance for a transcendent player.  It would take a lot (minimum of #3, better of Lakers/76ers next year, and better of Kings/76ers in 2019) for me to even listen if I were Danny

We'll see, though.  "Insiders" have been saying a lot about Danny being "close" on deals for the past year or so with nothing coming of it, so I'm just kind of ignoring the noise for now.  If Bulpett says something, I'll start taking seriously, but until then it's just an interesting anecdote

[Dchuck]

We're gonna be a bunch of scrappy, high motor, defensive hustlers with one scorer/slash playmaker! 

So instead of GSW and Cle scoring 115-130 on us they'll avg 100-115!  While we barely reach 90!  Woohoo! 

[BitterJim]

Is the Lakers 2018 first protected?

Yes.  It became an unprotected pick when it failed to convey this year.  The Kings' 2019 pick is also unprotected (what the heck were the Kings thinking on that trade?)

Edit: That should be "No".  The Lakers pick is unprotected

[Ilikesports17]

Is the Lakers 2018 first protected?

Yes.  It became an unprotected pick when it failed to convey this year.  The Kings' 2019 pick is also unprotected (what the heck were the Kings thinking on that trade?)

that was lowkey one of the dumbest trades of all time.

[BitterJim]

Who else is legitimately p---ed?

Getting "p---ed" about something that someone is rumored to be considering is a waste of energy

[PhoSita]

We'll see, though.  "Insiders" have been saying a lot about Danny being "close" on deals for the past year or so with nothing coming of it, so I'm just kind of ignoring the noise for now.  If Bulpett says something, I'll start taking seriously, but until then it's just an interesting anecdote

The thing that gives me pause is Lowe seeming pretty sure it's close to happening.

I'm really hoping you're right and it's just another deal that will have been "very close" but won't actually happen.

[JOMVP]

Who else is legitimately p---ed?

I got a 30 page paper due at the end of next week, and I can't even begin to concentrate on it because this is the only thing on my mind. Ugh.

[PickNRoll]

Clearly Ainge doesn't believe Fultz is a transcendent player or he thinks there are 2 others in the draft.

Fultz is not a "transcendent" player, whatever that means nowadays.  If we are talking about perennial MVPs...those guys come around 5 times every 20-25 years, and they don't lead teams to 9-22 records in college.  Can he be great? Maybe.  Is he James Harden redux? Maybe.  Is James Harden redux the centerpiece to an NBA Champion.  Probably not.

I think Ainge knows this.  Picking Fultz is the safe play. Ainge doesn't like safe.

Exactly.  Think of it this way.  Is he more transcendent than Ray Allen?   He's the same size, not as good a shooter, worse handle, worse defender worse athlete.   More dynamic going to the rim.  Maybe a little more polished mid range.  So what is he transcending?

[JOMVP]

We'll see, though.  "Insiders" have been saying a lot about Danny being "close" on deals for the past year or so with nothing coming of it, so I'm just kind of ignoring the noise for now.  If Bulpett says something, I'll start taking seriously, but until then it's just an interesting anecdote

The thing that gives me pause is Lowe seeming pretty sure it's close to happening.

I'm really hoping you're right and it's just another deal that will have been "very close" but won't actually happen.

And the fact that Fultz had his second meeting with Celtics cancelled and is heading to Philadelphia as early as tomorrow. This thing is done.

[Dino Pitino]

18 pages later and I'm pretty sure the people attached to Fultz and upset would've been just as attached to Joe Barry Carroll, i.e., they've completely sold themselves on the Fultz groupthink and can't rearrange their heads to ponder other possibilities.

[tazzmaniac]

Think of how good Fultz is!

Philly is willing to part with all these picks for him.  They would be happy to give up all those assets for him, because they feel he is that special!  If Fultz and Jackson are "so close" talent wise, why doesn't Philly just draft Jackson and keep all those picks? 

Oh, it's because Philly realizes an offensive talent with a wide range of tools is harder to come by than another MKG/Winslow/Stanley Johnson/Iguadola etc.  you can find those guys multiple times over in every draft.

Precisely.

We don't know what the parameters of the trade are but there is a much higher chance of Ainge fleecing Colangelo than the reverse.  If it really is the #3, Lakers 2018 and Kings 2019, Colangelo is making a heck of a gamble on Embiid's health and the potential of Simmons and Fultz.