Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick

[PhoSita]

Why even bother coveting picks in trades if when you actually get the consensus #1 pick in a strong draft you go ahead and trade it away?

If I have to watch Fultz be a perennial All-Star on the Sixers or Lakers for a decade I'm gonna be ill.  Chronically ill.

I am a little surprised you are this upset without even knowing the details of the talks. I am pretty into Fultz myself. If we end up with a team of IT, Bradley, Butler, Blake, Horford with Bench of Brown, Crowder and vets is that bad? I think that team can win the championship. 4 perennial all-stars....

(a) I don't think Butler is worth the top pick, let alone that plus future picks and whatever players we'd need to match salary.

(b) I don't like the spacing on that team, or the injury risk.  I don't think that team is a sure thing to beat Cleveland, let alone compete with GS.

How is the spacing a risk?
Horford obviously spaces the floor
Bradley and IT are very good shooters
Butler Shoots 37% from 3
Blake doesn't have 3 range really, but has pretty far range.

Assuming you still have Smart and Crowder on the bench that team is very competitive with Golden State in my opinion.

I don't think Butler is that great a shooter, and I don't trust Blake's spacing either.

Too many of those guys are best with the ball.


I'd much rather have a young core of Fultz, Brown, Smart, etc and see what we can do in free agency to buttress Thomas, Crowder, Horford in the present.

No need to trade away a consensus #1 pick just for a shot at getting killed by the Warriors instead of the Cavs.

[Vox_Populi]

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.

I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.

[PickNRoll]

The reason Danny would make the trade at all is because Jackson projects as the better pro. Plenty of flashy scorers come and go in the league.  It's the elite 2-way wing players that are winning finals MVP every year.

there's little evidence that Jackson is going to be elite on either end, though.

he's a nice physical prospect with two way potential, but his scoring isn't particularly efficient and he's not an amazing defender.

you know what is a guaranteed value in today's league?  elite pick and roll ball handlers who can score from anywhere.

Agree to disagree I guess.  Incredible athlete.  Far more explosive than Fultz. Elite defender already. Rebounds his position very well.  Guards 2-3 positions on D, minimum.  Good vision and passing.  Very smart kid, check out his interviews.  Shot a higher % on 3's than fultz over the second half of the year.  The worst you can say is that the top 3 picks are very close.  I've had Jackson #1 for a while.  I could see taking ball ahead of fultz as well.

[mef730]

Impossible to even think about this without knowing what we would get back.

ESPN just said it is #3 and one other pick. Now, that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee but, if that does turn out to be true, I'll be sick.

Mike

[Bobshot]

Those folks saying Ainge is parlaying this trade into a deal for a Davis or Butler had better be right. Future picks are unknowns in the NBA lottery system.

[max215]

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.

I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.

The goal of asset collection is to get Markelle Fultz. This is what we've been waiting for. Ainge is going to throw it away. I feel sick.

[jpotter33]

Sense from involved parties in Boston-Philly talks is Cs are all in. Checking physicals, poised to give No. 1 for package centered on No. 3

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/875833518600855552

Amick is rock solid. This is happening.

https://twitter.com/ForeverGreen_/status/875833013543858181?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

The Celtics are trying to get multiple picks in order to trade for Jimmy Butler
(@AdamZagoria)

So, if this was true, he'd probably have number 3 this year and then two probable top-5 picks (Brooklyn and LA) next year in the draft. How many picks would Butler cost? I can't imagine he costs more than number 3 this year and something like Rozier, along with the matching salary.

Isaiah-Butler-Horford isn't beating Golden State. They're not even beating Cleveland! Add Hayward to that and we probably take Cleveland to 7, maybe even win...and go on to get swept by the Warriors.

I'm not a fan of that plan either, just trying to make sense of the logic being used here. I think Fultz + Hayward or Griffin is the best bet of seriously competing now while not mortgaging our future.

But for argument's sake:

Trade #1 for #3 and 2018 Lakers pick;

(In whatever order needed to work in the cap) sign Griffin and trade for Butler with some combination of trading AB, Rozier, Jackson, and the #3 pick;

Lineup of:

PG: IT, Smart
SG: Butler, Green (vet minimum)
SF: Crowder, Brown
PF: Griffin, ? (perhaps O'Quinn in a trade from NY)
C: Horford, Zizic

I think that group has a legitimate shot of overthrowing both Cleveland and GS, as long as we stay healthy. I think Butler can only command something like #3, Bradley, and Rozier in terms of value, so that'd leave us with two probable top-5 picks in next year's draft. If nothing else, we still have the Memphis and Clippers pick to sweeten the pot.

Of course, how affordable that group is going forward is sketchy, but I think they have a legitimate shot of winning it all while still not technically mortgaging our future by keeping two top-5 picks next year.

Still, though, unless Fultz's knees are sketchy, I prefer taking him and signing one of Hayward or Griffin this summer.

[PickNRoll]

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than Jackson, they have to trade down.  That is an easy decision.

If they don't rate Fultz much higher than everyone else, that is itself the problem.

I knew Ainge would do something like this. And I don't understand it either. You rarely have a draft as talented as this one....that still has a consensus no. 1 pick.

Not a concensus.  Internet concensus because of Draftexpress maybe.  Danny has seen all these kids in person.  Hundreds of games.  He doesn't care about internet concensus.  Many GM's do not have Fultz #1 reportedly. 

[celticsclay]

Why even bother coveting picks in trades if when you actually get the consensus #1 pick in a strong draft you go ahead and trade it away?

If I have to watch Fultz be a perennial All-Star on the Sixers or Lakers for a decade I'm gonna be ill.  Chronically ill.

I am a little surprised you are this upset without even knowing the details of the talks. I am pretty into Fultz myself. If we end up with a team of IT, Bradley, Butler, Blake, Horford with Bench of Brown, Crowder and vets is that bad? I think that team can win the championship. 4 perennial all-stars....

(a) I don't think Butler is worth the top pick, let alone that plus future picks and whatever players we'd need to match salary.

(b) I don't like the spacing on that team, or the injury risk.  I don't think that team is a sure thing to beat Cleveland, let alone compete with GS.

How is the spacing a risk?
Horford obviously spaces the floor
Bradley and IT are very good shooters
Butler Shoots 37% from 3
Blake doesn't have 3 range really, but has pretty far range.

Assuming you still have Smart and Crowder on the bench that team is very competitive with Golden State in my opinion.

I don't think Butler is that great a shooter, and I don't trust Blake's spacing either.

Too many of those guys are best with the ball.


I'd much rather have a young core of Fultz, Brown, Smart, etc and see what we can do in free agency to buttress Thomas, Crowder, Horford in the present.

No need to trade away a consensus #1 pick just for a shot at getting killed by the Warriors instead of the Cavs.

I mean I think it is fare to prefer the young core for sure. However, I don't think your criticism of that starting lineup is fair. Is 37% shooting from 3 on high volume not a solid shooter? This is between where Bradley was the last two seasons. Also do these guys need the ball in their hands any more than the Warriors team does?

Curry and Durant at the very least need the ball in their hands, or did before coming to the Warriors. I guess your argument would be that Klay doesn't, but I think they are not taking advantage of him fully using him as a spot up shooter.

On this Celtics dream team Bradley and Horford work very well off the ball right? Presumably you have Blake being fed in the post also. It would seem like an embarassment of riches with a team that could beat you inside and out and only has one below average defender in the lineup (IT)

[BostonClamCrowdah]

Those folks saying Ainge is parlaying this trade into a deal for a Davis or Butler had better be right. Future picks are unknowns in the NBA lottery system.

Butler or George don't get you near Cleveland, so no, nothappening

[KGBirdBias]

Guys we don't know what the assets are for...it could be for Anthony Davis.

He may need the assets to grab a star to entice another star to sign.

2017 #3
Lakers 2018 #1
2 -2017 2nd round picks
AB

for Anthony Davis

IT
Smart
Hayward
Davis
Horford

[Celtics18]

I'm psyched if we are trading the #1 for the #3 and additional picks if it means we land Josh Jackson.  If we do that deal and Jackson goes at 2, I'll be devastated.

[max215]

Alright, I'm checking out for a while. Hopefully, I'll wake up from this nightmare.

[Smokeeye123]

If its one and another celtics pick for 3 sac and lal pick then id do it

[Atzar]

Not really a fan of Philly as a trading partner.  I don't like the idea of trading the #1 for other picks.  I don't think the Belichick strategy translates very well to the NBA, where it's much harder to pick up elite talent after the first few picks and the lottery can swamp a great situation. 

The 76ers were looking like a borderline playoff team with Embiid healthy.  I wouldn't count on that 2018 pick being near the top of the draft, especially when you're filling their biggest hole for them by allowing them to take Fultz.  And the Lakers are adding another top pick to a good core of talent - if Fultz or Ball jumpstarts their engine, that pick could quickly lose value as well.  2019 Sacramento is more interesting because I have no faith in that FO's ability to get anything right, but a lot can change in two years.  To me, this would be like striking it rich on the roulette board... and then pushing your winnings right back in on the next spin.  Just a huge, huge gamble.

Now if Simmons+3 is the eventual goal, then my tune changes a bit.  I don't think Brown/Jackson/Simmons fit well together (not enough spacing) but at least we'd be receiving the right level of talent.  I'd still probably prefer Fultz, but I would understand that deal.  Just not interested in the gift basket of picks.