Vince Carter for Ray Ray

[Jon]

Last time I checked, Vince Carter was a loser.  Also, last time I checked, Ray Allen could create his own shot: it's just that the C's often don't let him do it.  Case in point, his break down of Sasha in the 2008 Finals. 

Carter has had similiar success as all three of the Celtics stars had before they cam togther.

True, but why would you trade a star that you know can fit in for a star that you don't?  Sure, Vince is a couple years younger, but he's been more injury prone and has relied more on his athleticism to succeed than Ray ever has. 

It just doesn't make any sense.

And TP for Change for that clip. 

[PosImpos]

Last time I checked, Vince Carter was a loser.  Also, last time I checked, Ray Allen could create his own shot: it's just that the C's often don't let him do it.  Case in point, his break down of Sasha in the 2008 Finals. 

Carter has had similiar success as all three of the Celtics stars had before they cam togther.

Exactly, that's what I meant when I said that I'm sure he'd work hard if he came here - just as Ray has done.

[Who]

Good trade for the Celtics.

I'm a little worried about the finances, but yeah, I'd do this deal.

[PosImpos]

Yeah I'd definitely do the trade if the guys they gave us along with Carter allowed us to fill positions of need.

If we could get Dooling and Simmons or at least Dooling, Hassel and Williams that would be nice.

[Fan from VT]

I would be in favor of bringing in Carter if the other pieces made it worth while. I think Carter is underrated overall because he didn't end up being as good as the hype of the next Jordan. He's also lacked teams success, but, frankly, he's had as much team success as Jason Kidd, yet Kidd doesn't get the "loser" label, somehow.

Anyway, I think a deal for both sides would be:

Ray plus Giddens and Pruitt (or Tony or Scal if they prefer, but Giddens&Pruitt would save them the most money)

for

Carter, Najera, Dooling and Boone.

NJ saves 4.5 right away, as well as 23 mil the following year.

For Boston, Boone is a solid extra big body with legit size, Najera might provide some hustle but is really financial incentive for NJ, Dooling is a legit backup guard who is a defensive standout, and Carter fills in for Ray. Additionally, Carter would have a team option the same year Pierce and Dooling comes off the books, so the C's would have 42 million coming off the books at the same time in that offseason just between those three players:

Rondo/Dooling
Carter/Eddie
Pierce/Walker/Tony
KG/Baby or MLE
Perk/Boone

[ToppersBsktball10]

Last time I checked, Vince Carter was a loser.  Also, last time I checked, Ray Allen could create his own shot: it's just that the C's often don't let him do it.  Case in point, his break down of Sasha in the 2008 Finals. 

Carter has had similiar success as all three of the Celtics stars had before they cam togther.

But he's faked injuries and even admitted he hasn't given 100% at all in his career.

[pearljammer10]

Why does everyone want to trade ray? Doesnt make sense...Especially for a guy like Vince Carter? I yi yi this is going to be a long frustrating off season.

This is not a terrible trade as long as the Celtics take advantage of NJ's desire to cut payroll.


Ray for Carter, Boone and a 1st would have to be something to think about.

Are we talking about the same Vince Carter? I'll admit it I love the guy, but he is not an everyday player. Somedays he'll bring it and when he does hes a superstar. But on those off days look out, hes stubborn and takes very bad shots. Hes only two years younger than ray so it isnt like we are getting youth in the deal. The biggest thing.... He's getting paid through 2012!! He'll be making 18 mil when he is 36... No thanks. Id rather have Ray for one more year and take a chance at using him as a 6th man for the MLE when he turns 35 than an 18 mil carter who plays half the season and is often injured.

[ScalPal]

Ray Allen cant create his own shot any more, Sasha just sucks hence be barely played in the playoffs and Fisher stunk until games 4 and 5. He needs screens to score.

Ray is a jump shooter who is now very streaky and now very injury prone, when he misses teams get long rebounds and easy run outs. When he's not shooting well he DOESNT make up for it with good D. He doesnt pass that well.

Honestly the big 3 is Rondo Pierce and KG. Ray is a great shooter but VC has the capicity to be a better Defender and gets to the rim and can create a shot when they need to.

The only reason not to do it is the money.

[PosImpos]

The only reason not to do it is the money.

I agree, and I think Wyc might be willing to pony up for it.

That said, since we haven't heard anything about Vince being traded at all...it seems unlikely.

But I'd love to see Vince and Dooling in green even if it meant Ray getting traded.  Vince may have past issues but I think our team has shown that guys with past issues can change their public perception here.

[Fafnir]

The only reason not to do it is the money.

I agree, and I think Wyc might be willing to pony up for it.

That said, since we haven't heard anything about Vince being traded at all...it seems unlikely.

But I'd love to see Vince and Dooling in green even if it meant Ray getting traded.  Vince may have past issues but I think our team has shown that guys with past issues can change their public perception here.

I am not a huge fan of this trade. I don't think it makes us significantly better or extends our window of contention. All it does is get us more long term salary on the books.

Vince isn't much of an upgrade over Ray, if at all.

[PosImpos]

The only reason not to do it is the money.

I agree, and I think Wyc might be willing to pony up for it.

That said, since we haven't heard anything about Vince being traded at all...it seems unlikely.

But I'd love to see Vince and Dooling in green even if it meant Ray getting traded.  Vince may have past issues but I think our team has shown that guys with past issues can change their public perception here.

I am not a huge fan of this trade. I don't think it makes us significantly better or extends our window of contention. All it does is get us more long term salary on the books.

Vince isn't much of an upgrade over Ray, if at all.

I think he may or may not be an upgrade, but I think he's at least on the same level, and will probably be at that level for a longer time than Ray is. 

The point about taking on more long term salary is well taken, though, and that's probably what kills this potential trade.

[snively]

Ray Allen cant create his own shot any more, Sasha just sucks hence be barely played in the playoffs and Fisher stunk until games 4 and 5. He needs screens to score.

Ray is a jump shooter who is now very streaky and now very injury prone, when he misses teams get long rebounds and easy run outs. When he's not shooting well he DOESNT make up for it with good D. He doesnt pass that well.

Honestly the big 3 is Rondo Pierce and KG. Ray is a great shooter but VC has the capicity to be a better Defender and gets to the rim and can create a shot when they need to.

The only reason not to do it is the money.

I agree that Ray is not a primary playmaker.  He needs off-ball screens or a shifting defense to create good looks.  Vince Carter is a lot better at iso-scoring.  He's got great ball-handling skills, enduring athleticism and good moves.  

Still I think there's more risk than just money.  While we could definitely use better playmaking and shot-creating on this team, we need it more off the bench.  Rondo, Carter and Pierce are all guys who really need the ball to play to their strengths.  The beauty of Ray Allen and KG's offensive games is that they mesh so nicely with Rondo and Pierce alternating speed and power attacks.  While adding VC would create another point of attack, it would upset some of the team's offensive balance.

It might be worth the risk though.  While he's no spring chicken, Vince is a year and a 1/2 younger than Ray and should have more left in the tank, perhaps extending the window an extra year.  He'd also be a great boost as a holdover with the subs, a role that Ray has struggled with.  The chance to add a solid bench player like Dooling would also be nice.

NJ would probably do it too.  This would be a good chance for them to clear out some unnecessary spending without hurting their team much (depending on the throw-ins included of course).

Certainly not a home run move, but an intriguing idea.

[PosImpos]

It might be worth the risk though.  

Certainly not a home run move, but an intriguing idea.

This is pretty much how I feel about it.

[LB3533]

I think people are quick to trade Ray Allen because he had a poor Conference Semis.

If Ray didn't have to utilize every bit of his energy for the Chicago series, he would have performed much better the rest of the playoffs.

[Fafnir]

I think people are quick to trade Ray Allen because he had a poor Conference Semis.

If Ray didn't have to utilize every bit of his energy for the Chicago series, he would have performed much better the rest of the playoffs.

He had a bad hammy, which kills your shooting. Look at Ben Gordon's shooting percentages after he tweaked his, just awful.