Patriots 2023 Season

[Vermont Green]

I'm excited about this defense. I think it'll keep them in a lot of games.  Still concerned about the offense.  AFC is loaded.  Both division & interconference.  Offensive line is real concerning.  I just see it being tough going score to score with a lot of these teams. If the offense is struggling, the defense is out on the field more and I don't care how good they are, they'll break down.

The defense is going to have to be all time great good to keep them in games. Better than last year and we all saw how last year ended when they played the better offenses, winning just the 2 games out of 7 when they didn't face the starting QB. 

While the Jets are better this year, the Pats do have an easier schedule overall this year and play some mediocre to bad offenses throughout the year.  So the defense may be good enough to get them some wins after what I anticipate to be a rough start (Philly, Miami, @Jets, @ Dallas).  After those 4 they play 2 poor offenses then te Bills and Fins, and then have a stretch of 5 very winnable games before closing with KC, @Den, @ Buf, Jets.

I don't think the offense is good enough though for this to be a playoff team and frankly even matching last years win total will be hard even though they should be a better team than last year.

Given that the biggest (by far) complaint of last year’s 8-9 team was offensive coaching, logic tells me they’ll be better on offense this year - better game-planning and prep, better in-game decisions, more faith in the staff.  Mac was either cheated out of a growth year in Year 2 or he wasn’t. Can’t have that both ways. 

If he’s protected, the offense will move the ball. Big if of course - dependent on health and attitude of the o-line, Trent Brown in particular. The schedule concern to me is all about the AFC East.  Pats have to compete in the division and it remains to be seen whether they will.

The Patriots were 8-9 last season and just missed the playoffs.  They don't need to be a whole lot better to be 9-8 or even 10-7 and be right in the playoff hunt again.  I am not making that my prediction, just kind of thinking out loud.  Assuming that the bulk of the incremental improvement will need to come from the Offense, we do have an actual Offensive Coordinator this season so you would like to think there will be developmental improvement.

That said, I am not ready to predict the Pats will incrementally improve and make the playoffs.  I don't know how to gauge the current state of the O-Line.  The O-Line needs to stabilize or it isn't going to matter who the O-Coordinator is.  Brown-Strange-Andrew-Onwenu-Reiff, with some back up depth, could be just fine, I don't know.  It could also be no better than last season.

[footey]

Mac Jones needs to get rid of ball quicker.  Offensive line weakness dictates that. He has good processing speed, but questionable pocket manipulation (Brady was a master). Of course his receivers must get open sooner. 

[Moranis]

Mac Jones needs to get rid of ball quicker.  Offensive line weakness dictates that. He has good processing speed, but questionable pocket manipulation (Brady was a master). Of course his receivers must get open sooner.

Therein lies the rub, the WR's aren't any good.  No #1 and I don't even think they have a #2.  TE group isn't any good either.  Good RB's (though not explosive), but an OL that is bad, minimizing some of the effectiveness of the good RB group.  Hopkins would have done wonders for the whole offense, but they didn't want to pay him and now they have a garbage pass catching unit just as they did last year (well this one is probably worse as Meyers is better than JuJu).  Now maybe a guy like Thornton takes a big jump and elevates into a legit WR, but that seems unlikely that he'd improve that much to make that sort of difference. And Mac is below average at best so it isn't like a great QB is there to elevate everyone else.  O'Brien is much better than the mess last year, but the offensive talent is still among the worst in the league so better coaching can only do so much. 

The defense looks to be among the best in the league though, so the Pats have a shot to be in and win games against good teams. They do that, they could improve their record from last year, but I think is far more likely they win 6 games than it is they win 10 games.  Just not enough offensive talent.

[Donoghus]

I'm excited about this defense. I think it'll keep them in a lot of games.  Still concerned about the offense.  AFC is loaded.  Both division & interconference.  Offensive line is real concerning.  I just see it being tough going score to score with a lot of these teams. If the offense is struggling, the defense is out on the field more and I don't care how good they are, they'll break down.

The defense is going to have to be all time great good to keep them in games. Better than last year and we all saw how last year ended when they played the better offenses, winning just the 2 games out of 7 when they didn't face the starting QB. 

While the Jets are better this year, the Pats do have an easier schedule overall this year and play some mediocre to bad offenses throughout the year.  So the defense may be good enough to get them some wins after what I anticipate to be a rough start (Philly, Miami, @Jets, @ Dallas).  After those 4 they play 2 poor offenses then te Bills and Fins, and then have a stretch of 5 very winnable games before closing with KC, @Den, @ Buf, Jets.

I don't think the offense is good enough though for this to be a playoff team and frankly even matching last years win total will be hard even though they should be a better team than last year.

Given your track record with Patriots prognostication, I'll be sure to be taking this with a rather large grain of salt.

[Moranis]

I'm excited about this defense. I think it'll keep them in a lot of games.  Still concerned about the offense.  AFC is loaded.  Both division & interconference.  Offensive line is real concerning.  I just see it being tough going score to score with a lot of these teams. If the offense is struggling, the defense is out on the field more and I don't care how good they are, they'll break down.

The defense is going to have to be all time great good to keep them in games. Better than last year and we all saw how last year ended when they played the better offenses, winning just the 2 games out of 7 when they didn't face the starting QB. 

While the Jets are better this year, the Pats do have an easier schedule overall this year and play some mediocre to bad offenses throughout the year.  So the defense may be good enough to get them some wins after what I anticipate to be a rough start (Philly, Miami, @Jets, @ Dallas).  After those 4 they play 2 poor offenses then te Bills and Fins, and then have a stretch of 5 very winnable games before closing with KC, @Den, @ Buf, Jets.

I don't think the offense is good enough though for this to be a playoff team and frankly even matching last years win total will be hard even though they should be a better team than last year.

Given your track record with Patriots prognostication, I'll be sure to be taking this with a rather large grain of salt.

Sure, I obviously under projected their wins (a 3rd string QB from an opponent doesn’t help those things), but my reasoning for the low win total was spot on last year.  I said, they had a terrible offense that wouldn't be able to keep pace with the much better offenses they played down the stretch and that wins would be very hard to come by.  That was true, but Murray getting hurt made Airizona a bad offense and Miami started with Teddy and finished with Skylar.  With Tua the Pats lose that game. Heck if Teddy didn't get hurt in the game, they may have lost as well though who know for sure as it was close when he left.

The Patriots are not a good team. They are projected to finish last in the division for a reason.  The offensive talent just isn’t there.

[Neurotic Guy]

Mac Jones needs to get rid of ball quicker.  Offensive line weakness dictates that. He has good processing speed, but questionable pocket manipulation (Brady was a master). Of course his receivers must get open sooner.

Therein lies the rub, the WR's aren't any good.  No #1 and I don't even think they have a #2.  TE group isn't any good either.  Good RB's (though not explosive), but an OL that is bad, minimizing some of the effectiveness of the good RB group.  Hopkins would have done wonders for the whole offense, but they didn't want to pay him and now they have a garbage pass catching unit just as they did last year (well this one is probably worse as Meyers is better than JuJu).  Now maybe a guy like Thornton takes a big jump and elevates into a legit WR, but that seems unlikely that he'd improve that much to make that sort of difference. And Mac is below average at best so it isn't like a great QB is there to elevate everyone else.  O'Brien is much better than the mess last year, but the offensive talent is still among the worst in the league so better coaching can only do so much. 

The defense looks to be among the best in the league though, so the Pats have a shot to be in and win games against good teams. They do that, they could improve their record from last year, but I think is far more likely they win 6 games than it is they win 10 games.  Just not enough offensive talent.

It’s a defensible take but certainly a pessimistic one:
- don’t have a #2 receiver
- TE group isn’t any good
- bad OL
- garbage pass catching unit probably worse than last year
- Meyers is better than Juju
- Mac is below average at best
- offensive talent among the worst in the league

If you’ve nailed all of the above, should be a dismal season for the offense and likely a similar w-l record to last year.

We’ll see what we have with short routes and a crew of what I think are decent 2/3 receivers plus two good TEs, some pass catching out of the backfield, and an interesting slot receiver showing something in preseason. And a solid running game.  Protect Mac and the offense will be fine.

[celticsclay]

I'm excited about this defense. I think it'll keep them in a lot of games.  Still concerned about the offense.  AFC is loaded.  Both division & interconference.  Offensive line is real concerning.  I just see it being tough going score to score with a lot of these teams. If the offense is struggling, the defense is out on the field more and I don't care how good they are, they'll break down.

The defense is going to have to be all time great good to keep them in games. Better than last year and we all saw how last year ended when they played the better offenses, winning just the 2 games out of 7 when they didn't face the starting QB. 

While the Jets are better this year, the Pats do have an easier schedule overall this year and play some mediocre to bad offenses throughout the year.  So the defense may be good enough to get them some wins after what I anticipate to be a rough start (Philly, Miami, @Jets, @ Dallas).  After those 4 they play 2 poor offenses then te Bills and Fins, and then have a stretch of 5 very winnable games before closing with KC, @Den, @ Buf, Jets.

I don't think the offense is good enough though for this to be a playoff team and frankly even matching last years win total will be hard even though they should be a better team than last year.

Given your track record with Patriots prognostication, I'll be sure to be taking this with a rather large grain of salt.

Sure, I obviously under projected their wins (a 3rd string QB from an opponent doesn’t help those things), but my reasoning for the low win total was spot on last year.  I said, they had a terrible offense that wouldn't be able to keep pace with the much better offenses they played down the stretch and that wins would be very hard to come by.  That was true, but Murray getting hurt made Airizona a bad offense and Miami started with Teddy and finished with Skylar.  With Tua the Pats lose that game. Heck if Teddy didn't get hurt in the game, they may have lost as well though who know for sure as it was close when he left.

The Patriots are not a good team. They are projected to finish last in the division for a reason.  The offensive talent just isn’t there.

Lol just admit you were wrong for gods sake. Add it to your signature cause you objectively were. You want to whine about some third string qb but don’t even mention they had the flukiest loss of the year against the raiders. You were wrong. Contrary to your belief we would not respect you less if you actually admitted this, we would respect you a lot more. Unless you can do that I know at least some people don’t want to go through another year of dealing with your nonsense about the patriots (obviously you can still post you just seem very unaware how this stuff comes off)

[celticsclay]

Mac Jones needs to get rid of ball quicker.  Offensive line weakness dictates that. He has good processing speed, but questionable pocket manipulation (Brady was a master). Of course his receivers must get open sooner.

Therein lies the rub, the WR's aren't any good.  No #1 and I don't even think they have a #2.  TE group isn't any good either.  Good RB's (though not explosive), but an OL that is bad, minimizing some of the effectiveness of the good RB group.  Hopkins would have done wonders for the whole offense, but they didn't want to pay him and now they have a garbage pass catching unit just as they did last year (well this one is probably worse as Meyers is better than JuJu).  Now maybe a guy like Thornton takes a big jump and elevates into a legit WR, but that seems unlikely that he'd improve that much to make that sort of difference. And Mac is below average at best so it isn't like a great QB is there to elevate everyone else.  O'Brien is much better than the mess last year, but the offensive talent is still among the worst in the league so better coaching can only do so much. 

The defense looks to be among the best in the league though, so the Pats have a shot to be in and win games against good teams. They do that, they could improve their record from last year, but I think is far more likely they win 6 games than it is they win 10 games.  Just not enough offensive talent.

It’s a defensible take but certainly a pessimistic one:
- don’t have a #2 receiver
- TE group isn’t any good
- bad OL
- garbage pass catching unit probably worse than last year
- Meyers is better than Juju
- Mac is below average at best
- offensive talent among the worst in the league

If you’ve nailed all of the above, should be a dismal season for the offense and likely a similar w-l record to last year.

We’ll see what we have with short routes and a crew of what I think are decent 2/3 receivers plus two good TEs, some pass catching out of the backfield, and an interesting slot receiver showing something in preseason. And a solid running game.  Protect Mac and the offense will be fine.

Juju was the number one receiver for the chiefs for most of last year. He led their receivers in receptions, targets and yards despite missing a game. He was previously a one for the Steelers. Now he maybe not even a number 2 cause someone is really portly
Informed about football? Man it is still preseason and this is already annoying .

[celticsclay]

Mac Jones needs to get rid of ball quicker.  Offensive line weakness dictates that. He has good processing speed, but questionable pocket manipulation (Brady was a master). Of course his receivers must get open sooner.

Therein lies the rub, the WR's aren't any good.  No #1 and I don't even think they have a #2.  TE group isn't any good either.  Good RB's (though not explosive), but an OL that is bad, minimizing some of the effectiveness of the good RB group.  Hopkins would have done wonders for the whole offense, but they didn't want to pay him and now they have a garbage pass catching unit just as they did last year (well this one is probably worse as Meyers is better than JuJu).  Now maybe a guy like Thornton takes a big jump and elevates into a legit WR, but that seems unlikely that he'd improve that much to make that sort of difference. And Mac is below average at best so it isn't like a great QB is there to elevate everyone else.  O'Brien is much better than the mess last year, but the offensive talent is still among the worst in the league so better coaching can only do so much. 

The defense looks to be among the best in the league though, so the Pats have a shot to be in and win games against good teams. They do that, they could improve their record from last year, but I think is far more likely they win 6 games than it is they win 10 games.  Just not enough offensive talent.

It’s a defensible take but certainly a pessimistic one:
- don’t have a #2 receiver
- TE group isn’t any good
- bad OL
- garbage pass catching unit probably worse than last year
- Meyers is better than Juju
- Mac is below average at best
- offensive talent among the worst in the league

If you’ve nailed all of the above, should be a dismal season for the offense and likely a similar w-l record to last year.

We’ll see what we have with short routes and a crew of what I think are decent 2/3 receivers plus two good TEs, some pass catching out of the backfield, and an interesting slot receiver showing something in preseason. And a solid running game.  Protect Mac and the offense will be fine.

Gesiki and Hunter is at absolute worst an Average group. Most would say above average. To call this a bad group suggest the person doesn’t really follow football. Missing Nick 

[Neurotic Guy]

Mac Jones needs to get rid of ball quicker.  Offensive line weakness dictates that. He has good processing speed, but questionable pocket manipulation (Brady was a master). Of course his receivers must get open sooner.

Therein lies the rub, the WR's aren't any good.  No #1 and I don't even think they have a #2.  TE group isn't any good either.  Good RB's (though not explosive), but an OL that is bad, minimizing some of the effectiveness of the good RB group.  Hopkins would have done wonders for the whole offense, but they didn't want to pay him and now they have a garbage pass catching unit just as they did last year (well this one is probably worse as Meyers is better than JuJu).  Now maybe a guy like Thornton takes a big jump and elevates into a legit WR, but that seems unlikely that he'd improve that much to make that sort of difference. And Mac is below average at best so it isn't like a great QB is there to elevate everyone else.  O'Brien is much better than the mess last year, but the offensive talent is still among the worst in the league so better coaching can only do so much. 

The defense looks to be among the best in the league though, so the Pats have a shot to be in and win games against good teams. They do that, they could improve their record from last year, but I think is far more likely they win 6 games than it is they win 10 games.  Just not enough offensive talent.

It’s a defensible take but certainly a pessimistic one:
- don’t have a #2 receiver
- TE group isn’t any good
- bad OL
- garbage pass catching unit probably worse than last year
- Meyers is better than Juju
- Mac is below average at best
- offensive talent among the worst in the league

If you’ve nailed all of the above, should be a dismal season for the offense and likely a similar w-l record to last year.

We’ll see what we have with short routes and a crew of what I think are decent 2/3 receivers plus two good TEs, some pass catching out of the backfield, and an interesting slot receiver showing something in preseason. And a solid running game.  Protect Mac and the offense will be fine.

Gesiki and Hunter is at absolute worst an Average group. Most would say above average. To call this a bad group suggest the person doesn’t really follow football. Missing Nick

You knew I was quoting Moranis, right?  Yeah you knew.

[celticsclay]

Mac Jones needs to get rid of ball quicker.  Offensive line weakness dictates that. He has good processing speed, but questionable pocket manipulation (Brady was a master). Of course his receivers must get open sooner.

Therein lies the rub, the WR's aren't any good.  No #1 and I don't even think they have a #2.  TE group isn't any good either.  Good RB's (though not explosive), but an OL that is bad, minimizing some of the effectiveness of the good RB group.  Hopkins would have done wonders for the whole offense, but they didn't want to pay him and now they have a garbage pass catching unit just as they did last year (well this one is probably worse as Meyers is better than JuJu).  Now maybe a guy like Thornton takes a big jump and elevates into a legit WR, but that seems unlikely that he'd improve that much to make that sort of difference. And Mac is below average at best so it isn't like a great QB is there to elevate everyone else.  O'Brien is much better than the mess last year, but the offensive talent is still among the worst in the league so better coaching can only do so much. 

The defense looks to be among the best in the league though, so the Pats have a shot to be in and win games against good teams. They do that, they could improve their record from last year, but I think is far more likely they win 6 games than it is they win 10 games.  Just not enough offensive talent.

It’s a defensible take but certainly a pessimistic one:
- don’t have a #2 receiver
- TE group isn’t any good
- bad OL
- garbage pass catching unit probably worse than last year
- Meyers is better than Juju
- Mac is below average at best
- offensive talent among the worst in the league

If you’ve nailed all of the above, should be a dismal season for the offense and likely a similar w-l record to last year.

We’ll see what we have with short routes and a crew of what I think are decent 2/3 receivers plus two good TEs, some pass catching out of the backfield, and an interesting slot receiver showing something in preseason. And a solid running game.  Protect Mac and the offense will be fine.

Gesiki and Hunter is at absolute worst an Average group. Most would say above average. To call this a bad group suggest the person doesn’t really follow football. Missing Nick

You knew I was quoting Moranis, right?  Yeah you knew.

Yeah I knew. Sorry I didn’t make that more clear was agreeing with you. I agree you that mo’s patriots takes are pessimistic at best. That’s probably the nicest most well intentioned way one could describe them.

[green_bballers13]

I'm excited about this defense. I think it'll keep them in a lot of games.  Still concerned about the offense.  AFC is loaded.  Both division & interconference.  Offensive line is real concerning.  I just see it being tough going score to score with a lot of these teams. If the offense is struggling, the defense is out on the field more and I don't care how good they are, they'll break down.

The defense is going to have to be all time great good to keep them in games. Better than last year and we all saw how last year ended when they played the better offenses, winning just the 2 games out of 7 when they didn't face the starting QB. 

While the Jets are better this year, the Pats do have an easier schedule overall this year and play some mediocre to bad offenses throughout the year.  So the defense may be good enough to get them some wins after what I anticipate to be a rough start (Philly, Miami, @Jets, @ Dallas).  After those 4 they play 2 poor offenses then te Bills and Fins, and then have a stretch of 5 very winnable games before closing with KC, @Den, @ Buf, Jets.

I don't think the offense is good enough though for this to be a playoff team and frankly even matching last years win total will be hard even though they should be a better team than last year.

Given your track record with Patriots prognostication, I'll be sure to be taking this with a rather large grain of salt.

Sure, I obviously under projected their wins (a 3rd string QB from an opponent doesn’t help those things), but my reasoning for the low win total was spot on last year.  I said, they had a terrible offense that wouldn't be able to keep pace with the much better offenses they played down the stretch and that wins would be very hard to come by.  That was true, but Murray getting hurt made Airizona a bad offense and Miami started with Teddy and finished with Skylar.  With Tua the Pats lose that game. Heck if Teddy didn't get hurt in the game, they may have lost as well though who know for sure as it was close when he left.

The Patriots are not a good team. They are projected to finish last in the division for a reason.  The offensive talent just isn’t there.

This is pure gold. I am a fan of your work.

I am interested in how you have generated so many thoughts about the Patriots. You seem to miss a lot of key details about the last 23 years. Do they play the Patriots in Ohio regularly? Genuinely curious. I'd imagine they don't play every game, and you're talking to a lot of guys that have watched every single minute of every Patriots game since the 90's. I wouldn't begin to think that I know enough to take on a Cleveland Brown fanbase, given how little I watch them.

[Moranis]

Hunter and Gesiciki combined for 73 catches and 871 yards last year and Gesicki is already hurt.  I maintain thay arent any good as a group. They aren't terrible, never said that, but they aren't good either.

As for JuJu he was eclipsed by both Johnson and Claypool, which is why the Steelers let him go.  Well that plus the injury which took a lot from him.  He can't create separation or space like he used to be able to. He can still catch the ball, but doesn't function like a 1 or 2 any more.  Solid possession type guy, but you need a guy like Kelce to open space for him (Mahomes doesnt hurt either).  That is where Hopkins would have really helped.  He could have aerved as the main focus opening space for JuJu.  I do also think Meyers is better than JuJu, so that is a downgrade (Aglohor is gone as well but he more like a #4, they just didn't replace him).  Meyers impressed me last year. Think he can be a solid #2, I'd have kept him and not gone with JuJu.  I just don't think going from Meyers and Agolohor to JuJu is an upgrade and that is really the only change to the roster (Thornton should get better, but hed have done that had they kept Meyers).

[gouki88]

Hunter and Gesiciki combined for 73 catches and 871 yards last year and Gesicki is already hurt.  I maintain thay arent any good as a group. They aren't terrible, never said that, but they aren't good either.

As for JuJu he was eclipsed by both Johnson and Claypool, which is why the Steelers let him go.  Well that plus the injury which took a lot from him.  He can't create separation or space like he used to be able to. He can still catch the ball, but doesn't function like a 1 or 2 any more.  Solid possession type guy, but you need a guy like Kelce to open space for him (Mahomes doesnt hurt either).  That is where Hopkins would have really helped.  He could have aerved as the main focus opening space for JuJu.  I do also think Meyers is better than JuJu, so that is a downgrade (Aglohor is gone as well but he more like a #4, they just didn't replace him).  Meyers impressed me last year. Think he can be a solid #2, I'd have kept him and not gone with JuJu.  I just don't think going from Meyers and Agolohor to JuJu is an upgrade and that is really the only change to the roster (Thornton should get better, but hed have done that had they kept Meyers).

Your irrational pessimism never ceases to amaze

[celticsclay]

Hunter and Gesiciki combined for 73 catches and 871 yards last year and Gesicki is already hurt.  I maintain thay arent any good as a group. They aren't terrible, never said that, but they aren't good either.

As for JuJu he was eclipsed by both Johnson and Claypool, which is why the Steelers let him go.  Well that plus the injury which took a lot from him.  He can't create separation or space like he used to be able to. He can still catch the ball, but doesn't function like a 1 or 2 any more.  Solid possession type guy, but you need a guy like Kelce to open space for him (Mahomes doesnt hurt either).  That is where Hopkins would have really helped.  He could have aerved as the main focus opening space for JuJu.  I do also think Meyers is better than JuJu, so that is a downgrade (Aglohor is gone as well but he more like a #4, they just didn't replace him).  Meyers impressed me last year. Think he can be a solid #2, I'd have kept him and not gone with JuJu.  I just don't think going from Meyers and Agolohor to JuJu is an upgrade and that is really the only change to the roster (Thornton should get better, but hed have done that had they kept Meyers).

Your irrational pessimism never ceases to amaze

Seems like a bitter ravens fan with a limited understanding of the game. After his weird post refusing to  admit he was actually  wrong after he jammed his prediction down our throat for 3 months last year I’m not really entertained by it. He made matters worse by disappearing after they won more than 6. I think maybe deserves less oxygen this year in this thread.   

As for people posting in good faith, I am not super high on the patriots this year and it hurts that our division is really talented. I really hope we see a leap from mac and last year was more about not having an offensive coordinator. If this year we don’t see some improvement we are kind of back to the drawing board from a team that won’t be bottom 3 and that is a rough place to be.