Author Topic: NFL Playoffs thread  (Read 23577 times)

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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #135 on: February 03, 2020, 11:29:06 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Shanahan absolutely choked in both the Falcons game and yesterday.  His play calling is atrocious.  The Falcons win the Superbowl if on 2nd and 11 up 8 with under 5 minutes left in FG range if the Falcons just take knees, but instead of running the ball, he calls a pass on 2nd and 11, Ryan gets sacked for -12 yards.  So now it is 3rd and 23 from the 35 (still FG range), but there is holding on yet another pass play, so now it is 3rd and 33 from the 45 and no longer in FG range.  Incomplete pass and a punt back to NE with 3:40 left and a 1 score game.  NE of course drives down the field gets the TD, gets the 2 point, and ties the game. 

That is the perhaps the worst coaching sequence in Superbowl history.  The Falcons win the game if they just run the ball 2 more times, even if they lose yards (like they did on 1st down) they are still in FG range and a FG there wins the game (the runs also eat up a ton of clock or force NE to take timeouts). 

Yesterday, Shanahan did the same thing in the 4th quarter.  Niners are up by 3 with 6:13 left and have a 1st and 10 on their own 20.  On 1st down they hand the ball off and get 5 yards.  So what do they do on 2nd and 5, hey lets drop back into shotgun and throw the ball.  yeah that seems like the right strategy.  Incomplete pass.  Another pass on 3rd and 5, again incomplete pass.  Punt back to the Chiefs with over 5 minutes left and 0 timeouts taken.  Horrible play calling sequence.  I mean you don't trust your QB to throw the ball at the end of the 1st half (the no timeout was a poor decision as well), but you trust him to throw the ball with the game hanging in the balance when you still have the lead as time is winding down.  Even if runs on 2nd and 3rd down don't get a 1st down, you've taken well over a minute off the clock (instead of less than 10 seconds), but what do you think the odds of the Chiefs actually stopping the Niners 2 plays only needing 5 yards was.  I'd say very small.  The Niners might not have won the game getting a 1st down there, but their odds of doing so would have dramatically increased.  And the game is riddled with this weird play calling.  I mean even the first FG scoring drive, the Niners are running the ball down the Chiefs throats getting to the KC 25, they then throw the ball 3 straight times for 0 yards net (they had a 5 yard offside to move a bit closer) and settle for a FG. 

Shanahan got horribly outclassed as a coach in that game.  A better offensive game plan and the Niners win that game easily (as it played out, maybe not if they played the game again).

disagree

The chiefs were sitting on the running game at that juncture

running and short passes

daring Jimmy G to pass the long ball


Jimmy G had no confidence nor was able to hit the long pass in the 4th quarter.  We saw him attempt it and overthrew the pass... so the Chiefs strategy was correct

Is that Shanahan fault?

Also going back to that Atlanta miscue game.  Was he the head coach?  At the end of the day the big boss should make the final decision.  Shanahan helped that Atlanta rack up enough points to win.  Where is the blame on the D meltdown?

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #136 on: February 03, 2020, 11:34:20 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 11:39:45 AM by Tr1boy »

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #137 on: February 03, 2020, 11:45:38 AM »

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.


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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #138 on: February 03, 2020, 11:50:49 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core. 


Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #139 on: February 03, 2020, 11:53:28 AM »

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.

KC went 3 & out in their first possession after receiving the opening kickoff.

SF started the 2nd half with a FG on their first possession.  And probably should've hit on the double score if it wasn't for some head scratching playcalling at the end of the first half & a questionable OPI call on Kittle.

There was literally nothing dumb about that decision.


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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #140 on: February 03, 2020, 11:59:23 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.

KC went 3 & out in their first possession after receiving the opening kickoff.

SF started the 2nd half with a FG on their first possession.  And probably should've hit on the double score if it wasn't for some head scratching playcalling at the end of the first half & a questionable OPI call on Kittle.

There was literally nothing dumb about that decision.

we will have to agree to disagree

you pint point those situations as mishaps

I think starting behind the 8 ball by deferring is not a smart way to start the game

And imo San Fran D was running out of gas ....  with a QB like Mahomes you want to keep them as fresh as possible

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #141 on: February 03, 2020, 12:18:52 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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One takeaway I have from that SB is that if you're a run-heavy team you need to be willing to place trust in your run game even when the game is tight and time is running low in the game.  In that situation, sure it would be nice to pick up a big chunk of yards through the air.  But if you've known all year that your team is much better at getting 5-6 yards on the ground, why look to your game manager QB to get you 15 yards when steadily gaining 1st downs on the ground would suffice?

If you've been a run-reliant team all year, you need to be able to lean on the run even when it feels risky.  Place trust in the identity that your team has had all year.



Obviously the best teams are versatile and can adapt their strategy to fit the game situation.  But I think if your team has an identity it doesn't make sense to shy away from that identity when you're at a make or break point in an elimination game.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 12:24:10 PM by PhoSita »
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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #142 on: February 03, 2020, 12:20:50 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.

KC went 3 & out in their first possession after receiving the opening kickoff.

SF started the 2nd half with a FG on their first possession.  And probably should've hit on the double score if it wasn't for some head scratching playcalling at the end of the first half & a questionable OPI call on Kittle.

There was literally nothing dumb about that decision.

we will have to agree to disagree

you pint point those situations as mishaps

I think starting behind the 8 ball by deferring is not a smart way to start the game

And imo San Fran D was running out of gas ....  with a QB like Mahomes you want to keep them as fresh as possible
And that is why San Fran should have been running the ball.  You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You should always defer.  And in this case it worked well for San Fran as they stopped KC on the first drive of the game and scored themselves on the first drive of the second half.  That is exactly what you want.  The Niners lost because Shanahan likes to pass when he should run.
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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #143 on: February 03, 2020, 12:21:13 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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One takeaway I have from that SB is that if you're a run-heavy team you need to be willing to place trust in your run game even when the game is tight and time is running low in the game.  In that situation, sure it would be nice to pick up a big chunk of yards through the air. 

If you've been a run-reliant team all year, you need to be able to lean on the run even when it feels risky.  Place trust in the identity that your team has had all year.
My takeaway is that you shouldn't be conservative in play calling even if your defense has been awesome. Hurry up and late game situations has a way of melting pass rush down, especially given how many holds they won't flag in those situations.

Even if you're a running team, you should be aggressive in trying to score or keep the ball. Offenses are too good now to rely on any defense stopping them.

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #144 on: February 03, 2020, 12:24:53 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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President Trump was quick to congratulate the Chiefs on their win. A little too quick perhaps. Maybe he should have checked Google Earth first.


https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/481130-trump-shares-then-deletes-tweet-praising-chiefs-for-representing
I wonder if Mike Pompeo brought him out a map of America and asked Trump to point to Kansas City, if he could do it?

Mr Trump, Bangladesh is not Kansas City.

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #145 on: February 03, 2020, 12:26:23 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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One takeaway I have from that SB is that if you're a run-heavy team you need to be willing to place trust in your run game even when the game is tight and time is running low in the game.  In that situation, sure it would be nice to pick up a big chunk of yards through the air. 

If you've been a run-reliant team all year, you need to be able to lean on the run even when it feels risky.  Place trust in the identity that your team has had all year.
My takeaway is that you shouldn't be conservative in play calling even if your defense has been awesome. Hurry up and late game situations has a way of melting pass rush down, especially given how many holds they won't flag in those situations.

Even if you're a running team, you should be aggressive in trying to score or keep the ball. Offenses are too good now to rely on any defense stopping them.


I don't disagree with anything you said.  I just think it's unreasonable to expect your game manager / play-action QB to suddenly air it out in the last 8 minutes of a close playoff game. 

You can run the ball without being conservative.  SF got to the SB by having a dynamic, lightning fast running game using multiple RBs, full back, TE etc.  Then when things are tight at the end of the SB suddenly they're asking Jimmy G to operate out of shotgun and try to make plays down field.
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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #146 on: February 03, 2020, 12:36:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #147 on: February 03, 2020, 12:46:25 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

Parcells was doing this in the 80's with the Giants.   Which of course, is where Belichik learned it from.

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #148 on: February 03, 2020, 12:49:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

Parcells was doing this in the 80's with the Giants.   Which of course, is where Belichik learned it from.
That makes sense but it will always be attributed to Belichick because, as I said, it is a coaching technique and it was first mastered by Belichick and the Patriots.

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #149 on: February 03, 2020, 12:51:18 PM »

Online Roy H.

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

Parcells was doing this in the 80's with the Giants.   Which of course, is where Belichik learned it from.

We did this throughout high school. I think our coach just liked seeing how the game was going, and hoped to grab some momentum coming out at halftime.


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