Author Topic: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread  (Read 615319 times)

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Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3570 on: June 09, 2011, 07:31:14 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Best bench players by position?

C - Dave Cowens
PF - undecided (Kemp? B.Jones? S.Haywood -- didn't see any games of his while in his prime)
SF - Tracy McGrady
SG - Dave Thompson
PG - undecided (I like big guards so leaning towards B-Roy or Penny)

The talent at small forward is pretty amazing -- McGrady, Grant Hill, Bernard King, Carmelo Anthony, Dennis Rodman, Billy Cunningham ... M.Aguirre, A.English.

Small forward and the center position seem to have the most depth in talent off the bench.

I'd take Sam Jones or Pete Maravich off the bench over Dave Thompson, I think.  I like Thompson, but he doesn't rank with the all-time greats in my mind.


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Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3571 on: June 09, 2011, 08:01:16 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Best bench players by position?

C - Dave Cowens
PF - undecided (Kemp? B.Jones? S.Haywood -- didn't see any games of his while in his prime)
SF - Tracy McGrady
SG - Dave Thompson
PG - undecided (I like big guards so leaning towards B-Roy or Penny)

The talent at small forward is pretty amazing -- McGrady, Grant Hill, Bernard King, Carmelo Anthony, Dennis Rodman, Billy Cunningham ... M.Aguirre, A.English.

Small forward and the center position seem to have the most depth in talent off the bench.

I'd take Sam Jones or Pete Maravich off the bench over Dave Thompson, I think.  I like Thompson, but he doesn't rank with the all-time greats in my mind.
Someone I think needs to be mentioned as well is Hal Greer. He was tough as nails defensively, a scorer and an excellent rebounder and passer. really doesn't get the credit he deserves because he had his best years when the Big O and Jerry West were in their prime.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3572 on: June 09, 2011, 10:41:38 PM »

Online Moranis

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Earl Monroe has to be up there as far as best backup guard.

Prime Sheed off the bench is pretty ridiculous too.  Are there any other elite defenders and low-post players that are good at shooting 3s and can play both PF and C?

I'm gonna have to finally look at other teams' benches now.
Sheed wasn't on my radar. I had him listed at backup center and there are just better players available there. He'd be amongst the best at PF though. Nice.

Earl Monroe was in my top three at PG at first glance along with Penny and B-Roy ... I am partial to those players because I like guards with good size who can play both backcourt positions and have all-round games.
Like Dennis Johnson
Or Gail Goodrich, the leading scorer on a title team that had Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain.
He didn't offer a whole lot else though -- defense, rebounding or passing.
He wasn't a bad rebounder, 3.6 isn't bad, especially for someone 6'1".  4.5 assists also wasn't terrible for a guy who wasn't the primary ball handler.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3573 on: June 09, 2011, 10:43:19 PM »

Online Moranis

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Best bench players by position?

C - Dave Cowens
PF - undecided (Kemp? B.Jones? S.Haywood -- didn't see any games of his while in his prime)
SF - Tracy McGrady
SG - Dave Thompson
PG - undecided (I like big guards so leaning towards B-Roy or Penny)

The talent at small forward is pretty amazing -- McGrady, Grant Hill, Bernard King, Carmelo Anthony, Dennis Rodman, Billy Cunningham ... M.Aguirre, A.English.

Small forward and the center position seem to have the most depth in talent off the bench.

I'd take Sam Jones or Pete Maravich off the bench over Dave Thompson, I think.  I like Thompson, but he doesn't rank with the all-time greats in my mind.
Someone I think needs to be mentioned as well is Hal Greer. He was tough as nails defensively, a scorer and an excellent rebounder and passer. really doesn't get the credit he deserves because he had his best years when the Big O and Jerry West were in their prime.
I, of course, am partial to Hal Greer.  And I fully agree with you.  I think he was great value especially when I got him.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3574 on: June 09, 2011, 11:32:04 PM »

Offline mgent

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Best bench players by position?

C - Dave Cowens
PF - undecided (Kemp? B.Jones? S.Haywood -- didn't see any games of his while in his prime)
SF - Tracy McGrady
SG - Dave Thompson
PG - undecided (I like big guards so leaning towards B-Roy or Penny)

The talent at small forward is pretty amazing -- McGrady, Grant Hill, Bernard King, Carmelo Anthony, Dennis Rodman, Billy Cunningham ... M.Aguirre, A.English.

Small forward and the center position seem to have the most depth in talent off the bench.

I'd take Sam Jones or Pete Maravich off the bench over Dave Thompson, I think.  I like Thompson, but he doesn't rank with the all-time greats in my mind.
I think both of those guys are better than Dave Thompson.  Another guy I was gonna throw into the discussion is Hal Greer, but Nick already said him.

If I really had to decide I'd say

PG - Penny Hardaway
SG - Ray Allen
SF - Bernard King
PF -Dave Cowens
C - Yao Ming
combo guard - Allen Iverson (behind the Pearl)
swing man - Tracy McGrady (could easily be Mark Aguirre though)
point forward - Grant Hill
forward/center - Amare Stoudemire (behind Sheed)
combo forward - Carmelo Anthony
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3575 on: June 10, 2011, 12:10:34 AM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Best bench players by position?

C - Dave Cowens
PF - undecided (Kemp? B.Jones? S.Haywood -- didn't see any games of his while in his prime)
SF - Tracy McGrady
SG - Dave Thompson
PG - undecided (I like big guards so leaning towards B-Roy or Penny)

The talent at small forward is pretty amazing -- McGrady, Grant Hill, Bernard King, Carmelo Anthony, Dennis Rodman, Billy Cunningham ... M.Aguirre, A.English.

Small forward and the center position seem to have the most depth in talent off the bench.

I'd take Sam Jones or Pete Maravich off the bench over Dave Thompson, I think.  I like Thompson, but he doesn't rank with the all-time greats in my mind.
I think both of those guys are better than Dave Thompson.  Another guy I was gonna throw into the discussion is Hal Greer, but Nick already said him.

If I really had to decide I'd say

PG - Penny Hardaway
SG - Ray Allen
SF - Bernard King
PF -Dave Cowens
C - Yao Ming
combo guard - Allen Iverson (behind the Pearl)
swing man - Tracy McGrady (could easily be Mark Aguirre though)
point forward - Grant Hill
forward/center - Amare Stoudemire (behind Sheed)
combo forward - Carmelo Anthony


My bench is awesome.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3576 on: June 10, 2011, 12:38:11 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Best bench players by position?

C - Dave Cowens
PF - undecided (Kemp? B.Jones? S.Haywood -- didn't see any games of his while in his prime)
SF - Tracy McGrady
SG - Dave Thompson
PG - undecided (I like big guards so leaning towards B-Roy or Penny)

The talent at small forward is pretty amazing -- McGrady, Grant Hill, Bernard King, Carmelo Anthony, Dennis Rodman, Billy Cunningham ... M.Aguirre, A.English.

Small forward and the center position seem to have the most depth in talent off the bench.

I'd take Sam Jones or Pete Maravich off the bench over Dave Thompson, I think.  I like Thompson, but he doesn't rank with the all-time greats in my mind.
I think both of those guys are better than Dave Thompson.  Another guy I was gonna throw into the discussion is Hal Greer, but Nick already said him.

If I really had to decide I'd say

PG - Penny Hardaway
SG - Ray Allen
SF - Bernard King
PF -Dave Cowens
C - Yao Ming
combo guard - Allen Iverson (behind the Pearl)
swing man - Tracy McGrady (could easily be Mark Aguirre though)
point forward - Grant Hill
forward/center - Amare Stoudemire (behind Sheed)
combo forward - Carmelo Anthony


My bench is awesome.

What I find funny is that Jermaine O'Neal, Ralph Sampson or Ben Wallace aren't mentioned.

Or Michael Cooper (I don't see any other Defensive Players of the Year on this bench?)

Ben Wallace - only a 4-time consecutive Defensive Player of the Year?

Jermaine O'Neal is a little more polished defensively than Amar'e, with only a slight drop-off offensively.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3577 on: June 10, 2011, 01:37:06 AM »

Offline mgent

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Best bench players by position?

C - Dave Cowens
PF - undecided (Kemp? B.Jones? S.Haywood -- didn't see any games of his while in his prime)
SF - Tracy McGrady
SG - Dave Thompson
PG - undecided (I like big guards so leaning towards B-Roy or Penny)

The talent at small forward is pretty amazing -- McGrady, Grant Hill, Bernard King, Carmelo Anthony, Dennis Rodman, Billy Cunningham ... M.Aguirre, A.English.

Small forward and the center position seem to have the most depth in talent off the bench.

I'd take Sam Jones or Pete Maravich off the bench over Dave Thompson, I think.  I like Thompson, but he doesn't rank with the all-time greats in my mind.
I think both of those guys are better than Dave Thompson.  Another guy I was gonna throw into the discussion is Hal Greer, but Nick already said him.

If I really had to decide I'd say

PG - Penny Hardaway
SG - Ray Allen
SF - Bernard King
PF -Dave Cowens
C - Yao Ming
combo guard - Allen Iverson (behind the Pearl)
swing man - Tracy McGrady (could easily be Mark Aguirre though)
point forward - Grant Hill
forward/center - Amare Stoudemire (behind Sheed)
combo forward - Carmelo Anthony


My bench is awesome.

What I find funny is that Jermaine O'Neal, Ralph Sampson or Ben Wallace aren't mentioned.

Or Michael Cooper (I don't see any other Defensive Players of the Year on this bench?)

Ben Wallace - only a 4-time consecutive Defensive Player of the Year?

Jermaine O'Neal is a little more polished defensively than Amar'e, with only a slight drop-off offensively.
I considered JO over Cowens, he was probably my second choice.  Ben Wallace is a guy I love, but I think Amare would just destroy so many of the earlier era less athletic bigs.  Wallace's offense is too damaging in this league, and that was also one of the reasons I put Melo ahead of Rodman.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3578 on: June 10, 2011, 04:42:41 AM »

Offline Bahku

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I apologize for the late replies, guys ... my schedule is nuts right now.
_______________________________________________________________________________



Some questions:

Philly:  Why decide to play Jordan only 34 minutes per game?



As I stated in the summary, minutes especially are very fluid for this team, depending on who we're matched up with. I like the idea of KJ being able to play the SG spot when facing smaller teams, so I divided the minutes to allow for that. Normally I see MJ playing between 38 to 40 mins, and Stack playing around 8 to 10, (and possibly swinging him to SF for the same purposes, along with his scoring strength).

 

How do you see Dirk on the defensive end and how to combat his inefficiencies there?



Well, he's got size which is going to make the paint very formidable alongside Dwight, (and they average over 20 RB/G between the two of them - another ten with 'Nique on the other side), and I've got Dolph on limited minutes, but can extend that for defenses purposes if needed.

I also think his defensive numbers will go up, simply because of the other guys he has in the frontcourt with him, and his foot speed. His role on this team is going to be much different than that to what it has been, and with less of the offensive duties, he'll be more free to strengthen his game at the opposite end.



What are your thoughts on Dwights production now in a league where the Center position is historically weak facing all time greats who have done what he has done and more and a more comptetive era from a positional stand point?


Quite simply, speed. This is a fast team, and that, (along with shooting), is our strength. Centers of the past were overall, (there are exceptions, obviously), larger and taller, but also slower, and not quite so eager to get down the floor on the fast-break ... Dwight can do that with supreme efficiency, and there are very few in this fantasy league that will be able to keep up, and therefor, defend.

If your bigs are the first down the floor, then even the greatest defenders become a non-issue. With Dwight as the "point of the spear" on the fast-break, the ball will be in the basket before our opponents get into their defensive sets.

As an option, I've got a couple very traditional and dominant Centers off the bench in the "A-Train", Artis Gilmore, (at 7'2", 240lbs), and Ron Seikaly, (or even Dolph, who can play Center as well in a small-ball situation).

_______________________________________________________________________________




So, I'm not a panelist, but I have a question for everybody:

If you could take one of your draft picks back, which one would it be, and who would you have replaced that player with?


This is probably pretty easy to see, but I would most likely take back either Lenny Wilkens or Rony Seikaly, and go with a guy like AK47, Jack Sikma, or Vin Baker, for defensive purposes, (which is our weakest area, at present). More size is needed, and we've got plenty of speed and quickness at the PG spot without Lenny.

_______________________________________________________________________________




Philadelphia:

I love moving Kevin Johnson to the starting spot, but I still don’t like Nique or Melo next to Jordan. But, with Dirk there to pass and space the floor, this team has incredible potential. Explain to me how the offense works, and compare it to a current or recent NBA team, in the way you see the dynamic playing out.




Wow ... tough question, great, but tough. I really don't see any current NBA team with a similar dynamic. There is a ton of speed, athleticism, and shooting prowess on this team, that I feel goes far beyond any team of the past, (and that was my intent from the get-go). My main problem was dealing with the rather large egos on the floor at the same time, but, (with maybe Stack as the exception), I don't see that as a problem with Pop as our coach.

Having watched 'Nique and Jordan play together on the original "Dream Team" in the Olympics, I know that Wilkins has no problem deferring to Jordan's leadership, and that goes for the rest of the guys as well. With MJ and 'Nique attacking the hoop, and the physicality and speed of Dwight in the paint, Dirk's role becomes even more exciting, because he can be a facilitator as well as keep opponents' defenses honest with his ability beyond the arc.

In the year I chose KJ, he was actually the best 3-point ace on my team, shooting the tres at a smoking .441, so you can see why I chose to start him over Cousy, (as well as his added strength). That also leaves me with a more traditional line-up off the bench. My starting five excites the heck out of me, (I would love to see it in action for real), and the other options I have for changing my rotations are practically endless, with a bench as deep as any I've seen.




:)
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Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3579 on: June 10, 2011, 07:04:52 AM »

Offline Who

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What I find funny is that Jermaine O'Neal, Ralph Sampson or Ben Wallace aren't mentioned.

Or Michael Cooper (I don't see any other Defensive Players of the Year on this bench?)
Jermaine O'Neal, Ben Wallace and Ralph Sampson are fine players but they have nothing on Dave Cowens. MVP of the league. Led his team to two titles.

Michael Cooper is amongst the best defensive backup wings in this contest but not amongst the best overall players on the wing.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3580 on: June 10, 2011, 07:17:19 AM »

Offline Who

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Or Gail Goodrich, the leading scorer on a title team that had Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain.
He didn't offer a whole lot else though -- defense, rebounding or passing.
He wasn't a bad rebounder, 3.6 isn't bad, especially for someone 6'1".  4.5 assists also wasn't terrible for a guy who wasn't the primary ball handler.
3.6 rebounds would be about average today but for that time period it was firmly below average. Goodrich had a rebounding rate of 4.1 to 4.4% during his years chasing a title in Los Angeles. He is one of the weaker rebounding guards here.

The passing is fine. He wasn't a selfish player. He was a solid passer. Fairly average ... just not an exceptional passer and there are a few PGs on that bench that are (like Bob Cousy).

Defensively, again, for me, below average.

The scoring is the only part of his game that stands out as above average relative to his competition (backup PGs) in this fantasy game. The rest of his game lacks impact or even a positive contribution (defense / rebounding).

------------------------------------------------

I think Goodrich's combination of elite scoring (prolific + very efficient) + solid passing ... makes him one of the finest offensive backup guards in the league.

Not a fan of his defense or rebounding contributions which holds me back from putting him near the top of the backup guards list.

Anyway, that is my take on Goodrich and why he isn't on my best guard nominations list (plus my interest in having big guards which Goodrich is not).

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3581 on: June 10, 2011, 07:19:56 AM »

Offline Who

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My bench is awesome.
Yes, it is ... I think you might best bench in this league.

I also really like those Miami + Portland benches.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3582 on: June 10, 2011, 10:34:41 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Uh, Glen Rice anybody?

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3583 on: June 10, 2011, 10:37:28 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Best bench players by position?

C - Dave Cowens
PF - undecided (Kemp? B.Jones? S.Haywood -- didn't see any games of his while in his prime)
SF - Tracy McGrady
SG - Dave Thompson
PG - undecided (I like big guards so leaning towards B-Roy or Penny)

The talent at small forward is pretty amazing -- McGrady, Grant Hill, Bernard King, Carmelo Anthony, Dennis Rodman, Billy Cunningham ... M.Aguirre, A.English.

Small forward and the center position seem to have the most depth in talent off the bench.

I'd take Sam Jones or Pete Maravich off the bench over Dave Thompson, I think.  I like Thompson, but he doesn't rank with the all-time greats in my mind.
I think both of those guys are better than Dave Thompson.  Another guy I was gonna throw into the discussion is Hal Greer, but Nick already said him.

If I really had to decide I'd say

PG - Penny Hardaway
SG - Ray Allen
SF - Bernard King
PF -Dave Cowens
C - Yao Ming
combo guard - Allen Iverson (behind the Pearl)
swing man - Tracy McGrady (could easily be Mark Aguirre though)
point forward - Grant Hill
forward/center - Amare Stoudemire (behind Sheed)
combo forward - Carmelo Anthony


My bench is awesome.

I like your team a lot KC, but I'm concerned about your teams' ability to cover the wide body bigs.

Re: 2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread
« Reply #3584 on: June 10, 2011, 10:41:10 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Best bench players by position?

C - Dave Cowens
PF - undecided (Kemp? B.Jones? S.Haywood -- didn't see any games of his while in his prime)
SF - Tracy McGrady
SG - Dave Thompson
PG - undecided (I like big guards so leaning towards B-Roy or Penny)

The talent at small forward is pretty amazing -- McGrady, Grant Hill, Bernard King, Carmelo Anthony, Dennis Rodman, Billy Cunningham ... M.Aguirre, A.English.

Small forward and the center position seem to have the most depth in talent off the bench.

I'd take Sam Jones or Pete Maravich off the bench over Dave Thompson, I think.  I like Thompson, but he doesn't rank with the all-time greats in my mind.
I think both of those guys are better than Dave Thompson.  Another guy I was gonna throw into the discussion is Hal Greer, but Nick already said him.

If I really had to decide I'd say

PG - Penny Hardaway
SG - Ray Allen
SF - Bernard King
PF -Dave Cowens
C - Yao Ming
combo guard - Allen Iverson (behind the Pearl)
swing man - Tracy McGrady (could easily be Mark Aguirre though)
point forward - Grant Hill
forward/center - Amare Stoudemire (behind Sheed)
combo forward - Carmelo Anthony


My bench is awesome.

I like your team a lot KC, but I'm concerned about your teams' ability to cover the wide body bigs.

This guy agrees

CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16