Anthony Davis traded to Lakers(page 272)

[Moranis]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible). 

[RodyTur10]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value. Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out? There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

That's not a great way of making your point.

First you make a statement and then immediately you give a counter argument to your statement.

[tazzmaniac]

Tatum is the wild card. If the C's are actually willing to deal him, the C's are in a big advantage in most AD talks. They got Tatum and picks to center a package around. Or Brown + Williams + Picks IF that's still possible (though idk anymore).

The Lakers could offer all of Hart, Kuzma, Ingram, Ball but will they? Maybe 3 of the 4 but probably not all. Lebron himself isn't exactly young anymore so LAL would pretty much be banking on a 2-year all-in window. Sixers may offer Simmons + future pick(s) but I still question if AD/Embiid would fit and who are the guards for the Sixers? 40M/Year Butler? Fultz? Frankly I also think Tatum as a primary or secondary option is better than Simmons (yeah I said it). It's just on this team Tatum more often looks like a 3rd/4th option (but we saw what he did in the playoffs last year as the #2 guy).

It's a good thing that AD is likely staying put through this deadline, so we got at least a chance this summer to acquire him.

It wouldn't be a short window for the Lakers if they trade for AD and then acquire a 3rd star in free agency. 

I think AD/Embiid would work well. AD doesn't like playing center anyway.  Most teams wouldn't have the bigs to defend them or would be forced to play suboptimal 2 big lineups.  On defense, the lane would be a no go zone when they are both on the court.    Chances are AD won't have Philly on his list of teams.  If I'm Philly after AD is traded, I'd put together an offer for Jrue Holiday.  He worked well with Rondo and they could really use his defense. 

One team that could be in play for AD is the Knicks.  They could offer Porzingis, their 2019 1st and Ntilikina.  If Knicks are really in play to get KD, AD might put them on his list.

Actually yeah you're right about the Lakers, but they'd have to be real sure another star is coming for it to work.

And wait, AD has a list? Wonder if BOS is on it. It's important because he will be a rental next year so have to make sure he's willing to re-sign.

If the Lakers can get AD, there are going to do that regardless of getting a 3rd star.  AD would just be 28/29 at the end of Lebron's contract.  So then they could pick up another star.  However assuming they send out equivalent salary for AD, I think they'd have the cap space to get Kawhi too. 

If AD demands a trade, he's going to have a short list of teams that he'd be willing to re-sign with. 

[celticsclay]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

I honestly think the rest of the league is licking their chops at that memphis pick. While it certainly is possible they could have a turnaround it is hard to see a path to that right now in the next two years. Jaren Jackson is only 19 right now. He is probably a few years away from being a real difference maker. Whoever they get from the lottery this year will most likely be a few years away from being a real difference maker for wins. With lottery picks you are a lot more likely to end up with someone like Ingram who takes years to develop and make a difference than you are a Doncic who comes in and sets the world on fire (to say nothing of the very significant chance they end up with someone like Marcus Smart or Julius Randle. So yea, I just can't convince myself that teams are not super excited about a team with one young exciting player, a 34 injured center showing decline and a guy with a massive massive contract on the wrong side of 30.

[mef730]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

I honestly think the rest of the league is licking their chops at that memphis pick. While it certainly is possible they could have a turnaround it is hard to see a path to that right now in the next two years. Jaren Jackson is only 19 right now. He is probably a few years away from being a real difference maker. Whoever they get from the lottery this year will most likely be a few years away from being a real difference maker for wins. With lottery picks you are a lot more likely to end up with someone like Ingram who takes years to develop and make a difference than you are a Doncic who comes in and sets the world on fire (to say nothing of the very significant chance they end up with someone like Marcus Smart or Julius Randle. So yea, I just can't convince myself that teams are not super excited about a team with one young exciting player, a 34 injured center showing decline and a guy with a massive massive contract on the wrong side of 30.

Where do things stand with one and done? If high school grads are eligible in 2020 or 2021, that will only add value to the pick.

Nothing to say that it will last that long, but I'm loving the potential of an unprotected first in the first year that high schoolers are eligible.

Mike

[Moranis]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

I honestly think the rest of the league is licking their chops at that memphis pick. While it certainly is possible they could have a turnaround it is hard to see a path to that right now in the next two years. Jaren Jackson is only 19 right now. He is probably a few years away from being a real difference maker. Whoever they get from the lottery this year will most likely be a few years away from being a real difference maker for wins. With lottery picks you are a lot more likely to end up with someone like Ingram who takes years to develop and make a difference than you are a Doncic who comes in and sets the world on fire (to say nothing of the very significant chance they end up with someone like Marcus Smart or Julius Randle. So yea, I just can't convince myself that teams are not super excited about a team with one young exciting player, a 34 injured center showing decline and a guy with a massive massive contract on the wrong side of 30.

Where do things stand with one and done? If high school grads are eligible in 2020 or 2021, that will only add value to the pick.

Nothing to say that it will last that long, but I'm loving the potential of an unprotected first in the first year that high schoolers are eligible.

Mike

Last I heard was 2022 at the earliest because the league didn't want to have draft picks that had already been traded have a different value and there were picks traded in the 2021 draft without teams knowing of the change. 

[tazzmaniac]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

I honestly think the rest of the league is licking their chops at that memphis pick. While it certainly is possible they could have a turnaround it is hard to see a path to that right now in the next two years. Jaren Jackson is only 19 right now. He is probably a few years away from being a real difference maker. Whoever they get from the lottery this year will most likely be a few years away from being a real difference maker for wins. With lottery picks you are a lot more likely to end up with someone like Ingram who takes years to develop and make a difference than you are a Doncic who comes in and sets the world on fire (to say nothing of the very significant chance they end up with someone like Marcus Smart or Julius Randle. So yea, I just can't convince myself that teams are not super excited about a team with one young exciting player, a 34 injured center showing decline and a guy with a massive massive contract on the wrong side of 30.

Where do things stand with one and done? If high school grads are eligible in 2020 or 2021, that will only add value to the pick.

Nothing to say that it will last that long, but I'm loving the potential of an unprotected first in the first year that high schoolers are eligible.

Mike

I don't think any decision was agreed to but the indications were that it wouldn't happen before 2022.  It came up when the Sixers got the unprotected Miami 2021 pick. 

[Moranis]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

I honestly think the rest of the league is licking their chops at that memphis pick. While it certainly is possible they could have a turnaround it is hard to see a path to that right now in the next two years. Jaren Jackson is only 19 right now. He is probably a few years away from being a real difference maker. Whoever they get from the lottery this year will most likely be a few years away from being a real difference maker for wins. With lottery picks you are a lot more likely to end up with someone like Ingram who takes years to develop and make a difference than you are a Doncic who comes in and sets the world on fire (to say nothing of the very significant chance they end up with someone like Marcus Smart or Julius Randle. So yea, I just can't convince myself that teams are not super excited about a team with one young exciting player, a 34 injured center showing decline and a guy with a massive massive contract on the wrong side of 30.

What are they getting for Marc Gasol and Mike Conley in your scenario?

[Phantom255x]

Personally, the way I see it, Tatum is the best asset out of all the available ones between Boston and LAL (unless you start counting the stars like Kyrie, Lebron, etc. but they obviously aren't getting dealt).

Then it's Kuzma. After that, there's a solid gap between the 2nd best and 3rd, but I'd say Ingram is better than Brown, but only marginally. Then after that, it's Brown, then Ball, and then Hart.

But if you include the picks both teams could have available, Boston beats LA by a big margin. Sure, the Kings Pick isn't landing #2 or Top-5, but it still is likely a lottery pick. The Grizzlies pick, I agree with @celticsclay, that pick is looking a lot more valuable now and teams could be eyeing it down the road (including the Pelicans). They see the situation in Memphis too.

So my ranking between Celtics and Lakers assets:

1. Tatum
2. Kuzma
3. Memphis Pick
4. Ingram
5. Brown
6. Ball
7. Kings Pick
8. Hart
9. Williams (Timelord!)
10. Pretty much everything else (own picks likely in the 20s)

Feel free to argue or discuss as you please.

Two quick things, it might be unfair to Lonzo's talent, but he does come with baggage due to his dad and family. I don't think Pelicans fans will like it if they trade Davis in a package featured by Lonzo and his dad throws a tantrum about it (also directed at the Pelicans and their fans). Either way you could swap Lonzo and Brown in that mini-ranking if you want, but it's not a large gap between the two either. Second, the Kings Pick is 7th here assuming it lands in the 12-14 range, but if it ends up around 7-10, then even that could move up a spot or two here. If we hit the jackpot in the lottery and it's Top-5 (and not #1), then obviously it's 4th best here.

Either way, if LAL offers Ingram, Hart, Kuzma, Ball (all of them) then @Moranis is correct, we HAVE to trade Tatum to acquire him, and probably also include someone like Williams too (along w/salary and whatever picks). We probably have to trade Tatum anyways to acquire him (sadly) unless Brown starts lighting it up from here on out (upping his trade value), but if it's Tatum, and just 1-2 more players needed + picks, we're still in a good spot and we also aren't decimating our roster (unless that other player turns out to be Kyrie in some form but I doubt it).

[celticsclay]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

I honestly think the rest of the league is licking their chops at that memphis pick. While it certainly is possible they could have a turnaround it is hard to see a path to that right now in the next two years. Jaren Jackson is only 19 right now. He is probably a few years away from being a real difference maker. Whoever they get from the lottery this year will most likely be a few years away from being a real difference maker for wins. With lottery picks you are a lot more likely to end up with someone like Ingram who takes years to develop and make a difference than you are a Doncic who comes in and sets the world on fire (to say nothing of the very significant chance they end up with someone like Marcus Smart or Julius Randle. So yea, I just can't convince myself that teams are not super excited about a team with one young exciting player, a 34 injured center showing decline and a guy with a massive massive contract on the wrong side of 30.

What are they getting for Marc Gasol and Mike Conley in your scenario?

I know you probably disagree, but I think they would be lucky to get like the 20th pick in the draft and an expiring contract for Gasol. He basically has 30 games left as a rental (or you paid 26 million for a beat up center in his age 35 seasons). He has probably been a below average starting center this year. Maybe he can bounce back a little bit, but it has really been ugly.

Conley is a lot more complicated cause he is younger, but he is also owed an incredible amount of money. I could see the Knicks giving up Vonleh, Nikitia and Kanter. Or perhaps the Mavericks do something centered around Matthews and DSJ (but in my opinion that would be an absolute heist by Memphis. Sports illustrated suggested Etwaun Moore, Randle (rental) and their first round pick plus filler. I could see that happening as a desperate attempt to keep davis. Overall though, the consensus is that they waited two years too long to do this and there just isn't a lot of value for the guys now. They are not in an enviable position.

[Moranis]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value. Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out? There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

That's not a great way of making your point.

First you make a statement and then immediately you give a counter argument to your statement.

I'm not sure why you think that diminishes the point I was making.  Please explain.

[Roy H.]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value. Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out? There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

That's not a great way of making your point.

First you make a statement and then immediately you give a counter argument to your statement.

I'm not sure why you think that diminishes the point I was making.  Please explain.

Because the pick had more value when it was more uncertain.

It went from a premium asset to a decent one.

[Moranis]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

I honestly think the rest of the league is licking their chops at that memphis pick. While it certainly is possible they could have a turnaround it is hard to see a path to that right now in the next two years. Jaren Jackson is only 19 right now. He is probably a few years away from being a real difference maker. Whoever they get from the lottery this year will most likely be a few years away from being a real difference maker for wins. With lottery picks you are a lot more likely to end up with someone like Ingram who takes years to develop and make a difference than you are a Doncic who comes in and sets the world on fire (to say nothing of the very significant chance they end up with someone like Marcus Smart or Julius Randle. So yea, I just can't convince myself that teams are not super excited about a team with one young exciting player, a 34 injured center showing decline and a guy with a massive massive contract on the wrong side of 30.

What are they getting for Marc Gasol and Mike Conley in your scenario?

I know you probably disagree, but I think they would be lucky to get like the 20th pick in the draft and an expiring contract for Gasol. He basically has 30 games left as a rental (or you paid 26 million for a beat up center in his age 35 seasons). He has probably been a below average starting center this year. Maybe he can bounce back a little bit, but it has really been ugly.

Conley is a lot more complicated cause he is younger, but he is also owed an incredible amount of money. I could see the Knicks giving up Vonleh, Nikitia and Kanter. Or perhaps the Mavericks do something centered around Matthews and DSJ (but in my opinion that would be an absolute heist by Memphis. Sports illustrated suggested Etwaun Moore, Randle (rental) and their first round pick plus filler. I could see that happening as a desperate attempt to keep davis. Overall though, the consensus is that they waited two years too long to do this and there just isn't a lot of value for the guys now. They are not in an enviable position.

Conley apparently has a pretty big market as a number of teams have shown interest.  That will help his trade value immensely.  The Jazz, Bucks, and Pacers have apparently made calls in addition to many of the usual suspects.  I think they will get a 1st, a young player (mid-tier value one), and then contracts (expiring but perhaps a bad one).  Conley can help a lot of teams and while he is paid a lot, it is a couple of years and he is still very good.  Let's say they trade him to the Bucks for something like Bledsoe, Smith, Maker, 1st.

Gasol is harder to move given his contract uncertainty, but I've seen the Hornets linked to him extensively in something like Biyombo, Monk, 1st. 

So if the Grizzlies end up making both those moves, they would pick up Maker, Monk, a couple of 1st's, 2 expiring contracts, and Biyombo with a year left.  They end up with a top 5 pick this year (Rui Hachimura or maybe they get Barrett or Williamson), the Hornets 1st (Darius Garland or whomever), and the Bucks 1st (Chuma Okeke or whomever).  They tank next year all year long and end up with a top 3 pick (Edwards, McDaniels, or Anthony), use their cap space and expiring contracts as a dumping ground for teams and pick up additional assets. 

All of a sudden they enter the 2020/21 season with 3 recent top 5 picks, a bunch of other recent 1st rounders (including Maker and Monk), and end up having a Kings type season and transfer a late lottery pick to Boston in the 2021 draft.  They don't have to make the playoffs for Boston's pick to not have great value.  That is where uncertainty rears its ugly head on future picks and why their value is lessened.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from the Lakers (yeah didn't happen).  Remember when the Cavs were getting a top 5 pick from the Nets via Boston (yeah didn't happen).  Remember when all summer everyone on here (except me) was banging the Kings are going to yield a top 5 pick (only happening with luck in lottery).  Sometimes it works out (see the Brown and Tatum picks), but often future picks don't end up nearly as good as they reasonably could. 

[Moranis]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value. Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out? There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

That's not a great way of making your point.

First you make a statement and then immediately you give a counter argument to your statement.

I'm not sure why you think that diminishes the point I was making.  Please explain.

Because the pick had more value when it was more uncertain.

It went from a premium asset to a decent one.

Ah, I see that, it still works both ways though (especially for someone like me that was screaming up and down this board that Sacto wasn't going to be a bottom 5 team this year) i.e. you just never know where a team is going to end up and teams know this.  If you knew right now the pick was going to be 5, it would have more value than an unprotected pick in the same draft.  Certainty matters.  I mean Boston only has the Sacramento pick because the Lakers didn't end up in the top 5 the prior draft (which was a real possibility). 

[footey]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

Biyombo Monk and 1st for Gasol? Please site your source other than fan website.