Possible #30 picks

[Eeyore III]

How about filling the back-up C hole with Primoz Brezec?  Unrestricted free agent.  He's big and can shoot.  No D, but he could be signed for $3 millionish.  Could be an OK option if we go wing at #30.  I think we need a bench player who is over 6'8".   

[P2]

How about filling the back-up C hole with Primoz Brezec?  Unrestricted free agent.  He's big and can shoot.  No D, but he could be signed for $3 millionish.  Could be an OK option if we go wing at #30.  I think we need a bench player who is over 6'8".   

I think we buy a pick in the 15-25 range to draft a wing, and will use 30 to draft a big Center, probably Jawai or Hardin.

[jgod213]

I want Hibbert.  He is exactly what we need. And we have the defense to prevent him suffering too much from his lack of skills...

Any chance he slips?

OK, I will give up on my crusade against him for a bit, convince me on him.  How is he exactly what we need?  What does he bring to the table, other than being tall?

I think that when you're where the Celtics are in the draft, you have to pick according to need.  Buuut, when you're at 30, you're not going to get anyone to fill a need on a nightly basis.  Douglas-Roberts is wasted on our team. So is Brandon Rush. Are either of these guys going to beat out Posey for minutes?

You're completely right in that, at 30, you need to draft the best available talent rather than to fill a hole.  For this reason, you MUST draft CDR or Brandon Rush if available (although highly unlikely).

You're also right in that, on a championship team, a guy like CDR or Posey won't beat out Posey for minutes; however, James Posey is not a long term solution in any role.  Posey will be 32 next year, as will Pierce...Allen will be 34.  We must begin to infuse some more youth into that position as Tony Allen alone isn't enough to get us by (assuming he's still with the team).

CDR and Rush can contribute immediately on many teams, but that doesn't mean you need to avoid them if you don't need them immediately.  The Celts had a clean bill of health this year, who's to say it happens the same way next year? Who's to say Ray Allen and James Posey will still be here in two more years?  Sure, we could just regroup through free agency, but by taking one of those 2 at 30 (CDR or Rush if available), you're not only taking the best available talent, you're being proactive about a position that will turn into a need very soon.

[Chris]

I think that when you're where the Celtics are in the draft, you have to pick according to need.  Buuut, when you're at 30, you're not going to get anyone to fill a need on a nightly basis.  Douglas-Roberts is wasted on our team. So is Brandon Rush. Are either of these guys going to beat out Posey for minutes?

I agree that need should come into the equation at 30 (unless there is a talent much greater than the others available).  However, I believe that the C's do have a need on the wing. 

Currently they have Pierce, Ray Allen, Posey (although he could opt out and be gone), and Tony Allen.

Personally I think Tony Allen is on his way out.  He has not improved much since his rookie year, and he is running out of chances.  Not to mention, I believe that CDR, Walker, and Rush could all be better than Tony almost immediately.  You are right that they won't be getting minutes over Posey, however, in an 82 game season you need more than 3 guys for depth in those two positions (SG, SF).  Especially since Ray Allen seems to be breaking down a bit over the minutes he played this year, and IMO could really be helped by dropping down to 30 minutes or less per game.

If we are able to get a talented wing (like the 3 mentioned) who could come in and provide depth, and scoring off the bench, then I think that is absolutely filling a need.

As the Celtics are an aging team, they need someone who can come in and provide some certain offense.  Notice I didn't say "instant." Hibbert is like a plodding fairy tale giant! But he shoots 60% from the field.

Hibbert - or any offensive-minded big man - would add a new dimension to the team.

See, my problem is that I don't see Hibbert as "Certain offense".  I feel that because of his lack of quickness, and his mediocre footwork, he would really struggle to get quality shots off in the post against NBA defenders.  He is not a great outside shooter, like someone like Z, so he can't really hurt defenses that way, and although he is a good passer, he isn't extraordinary.

Basically I see him as being a guy whose only skill that is above average is his height.  Everything else is average at best (shooting, passing), or significantly below average (defense, footwork, quickness).

And finally, I think that you can't discount the fact that he is a horrible fit for the C's defensive scheme, which forces big men to stray far from the basket, and be able to stick with quicker guys on the perimeter.  There is about a 90% chance he would never even see the floor for the C's because of this.

[Who]

How about filling the back-up C hole with Primoz Brezec?  Unrestricted free agent.  He's big and can shoot.  No D, but he could be signed for $3 millionish.  Could be an OK option if we go wing at #30.  I think we need a bench player who is over 6'8".   

I expect Brezec will be available for the veteran's minimum.

I don't want him here though. Soft in the paint and on the glass. He doesn't add enough to the team to be worthwhile signing. He's a 60-loss player, they're the only teams where he can have significant minutes and be helpful.

[Who]

I like Roy Hibbert, with some good coaching he has a lot of upside. He's well worth any pick outside of the lottery and might even be worth a look by some late lottery teams.

[Who]

DJ White has impressed me. I'd love seeing him in a Celtics uniform.

He remind me a lot of post-injury Antonio McDyess. Good shot, some post moves, good on the boards, good defensively, smart. A fairly solid big man with good size who can contribute right away and be a rotation player for a long time.

[Cman]

How about filling the back-up C hole with Primoz Brezec?  Unrestricted free agent.  He's big and can shoot.  No D, but he could be signed for $3 millionish.  Could be an OK option if we go wing at #30.  I think we need a bench player who is over 6'8".   

I think we buy a pick in the 15-25 range to draft a wing, and will use 30 to draft a big Center, probably Jawai or Hardin.

I like this idea, because I always get excited around draft time and because the two picks would go a long way towards infusing some youth on this team, but I just don't see it happening.  Cs already have a high salary number, and drafting a 15-25 range player will only increase that number (we are talking $1-$1.5M more on top of the $950K to pay the #30 pick, plus all these numbers get doubled if over the cap (likely)).  IMHO a better move would be to trade the #30 to the Blazers for their #33 plus a 2009 2nd rounder.

Instead I think the Cs will go that route next year when they don't have a pick in the draft.

[Chris]

DJ White has impressed me. I'd love seeing him in a Celtics uniform.

He remind me a lot of post-injury Antonio McDyess. Good shot, some post moves, good on the boards, good defensively, smart. A fairly solid big man with good size who can contribute right away and be a rotation player for a long time.

I like him too, and think some team is going to be very happy with him...I just doubt it will be the C's, who already have a couple undersized PFs.

[jaketwice]

I think that when you're where the Celtics are in the draft, you have to pick according to need.  Buuut, when you're at 30, you're not going to get anyone to fill a need on a nightly basis.  Douglas-Roberts is wasted on our team. So is Brandon Rush. Are either of these guys going to beat out Posey for minutes?

I agree that need should come into the equation at 30 (unless there is a talent much greater than the others available).  However, I believe that the C's do have a need on the wing. 

Currently they have Pierce, Ray Allen, Posey (although he could opt out and be gone), and Tony Allen.

Personally I think Tony Allen is on his way out.  He has not improved much since his rookie year, and he is running out of chances.  Not to mention, I believe that CDR, Walker, and Rush could all be better than Tony almost immediately.  You are right that they won't be getting minutes over Posey, however, in an 82 game season you need more than 3 guys for depth in those two positions (SG, SF).  Especially since Ray Allen seems to be breaking down a bit over the minutes he played this year, and IMO could really be helped by dropping down to 30 minutes or less per game.

If we are able to get a talented wing (like the 3 mentioned) who could come in and provide depth, and scoring off the bench, then I think that is absolutely filling a need.

That's a good point.  I suppose, however, that since we have some good players at that position, it's a less critical need than center.

As the Celtics are an aging team, they need someone who can come in and provide some certain offense.  Notice I didn't say "instant." Hibbert is like a plodding fairy tale giant! But he shoots 60% from the field.

Hibbert - or any offensive-minded big man - would add a new dimension to the team.

See, my problem is that I don't see Hibbert as "Certain offense".  I feel that because of his lack of quickness, and his mediocre footwork, he would really struggle to get quality shots off in the post against NBA defenders.  He is not a great outside shooter, like someone like Z, so he can't really hurt defenses that way, and although he is a good passer, he isn't extraordinary.

Basically I see him as being a guy whose only skill that is above average is his height.  Everything else is average at best (shooting, passing), or significantly below average (defense, footwork, quickness).

And finally, I think that you can't discount the fact that he is a horrible fit for the C's defensive scheme, which forces big men to stray far from the basket, and be able to stick with quicker guys on the perimeter.  There is about a 90% chance he would never even see the floor for the C's because of this.

[/quote]

I saw some of his games at Georgetown, and I appreciated his court vision - I actually did not think him selfish enough.  And while he may not, as of this writing, be the greatest finisher around the basket (though he DOES have skills near the basket, don't get me wrong) if you look at what Clifford Ray has had to work with, and what he has produced: name one young current Celtics big man who hasn't, at some point, excited you to the point where you were thinking "he's going to be great!" Scalabrine is not young.

There would have to be a different kind of offense AND a different kind of defense centered around him when he was in the game. 

[nickagneta]

Does anyone else think like I do that this whole thread could be for naught because the Celtics aren't planning on bringing in anymore youth.

I see them selling or trading the pick(after they pick of course to maintain the rule about trading #1s in two consecutive years).

They aren't putting a team in the Summer League.

They obviously feel vets are the way to go as they brought in Brown and Cassell for the playoffs necessitating going away from some of their youth.

They already have Rondo, 22, Perkins, 23, Davis, 22, Powe, 24, and Pruitt at 22. That's one third of their roster that will next year be 25 and under.

The Celtics get rid of the pick and use the LLe and MLE and vet mins to fill out the roster next year. At least that's the way I see it.

[liam]

Does anyone else think like I do that this whole thread could be for naught because the Celtics aren't planning on bringing in anymore youth.

I see them selling or trading the pick(after they pick of course to maintain the rule about trading #1s in two consecutive years).

They aren't putting a team in the Summer League.

They obviously feel vets are the way to go as they brought in Brown and Cassell for the playoffs necessitating going away from some of their youth.

They already have Rondo, 22, Perkins, 23, Davis, 22, Powe, 24, and Pruitt at 22. That's one third of their roster that will next year be 25 and under.

The Celtics get rid of the pick and use the LLe and MLE and vet mins to fill out the roster next year. At least that's the way I see it.

Unless someone really good falls to them in that spot or they pick a young center to keep over seas for a few years. I don't think it's cut and dried.

[Chris]

I think that when you're where the Celtics are in the draft, you have to pick according to need.  Buuut, when you're at 30, you're not going to get anyone to fill a need on a nightly basis.  Douglas-Roberts is wasted on our team. So is Brandon Rush. Are either of these guys going to beat out Posey for minutes?

I agree that need should come into the equation at 30 (unless there is a talent much greater than the others available).  However, I believe that the C's do have a need on the wing. 

Currently they have Pierce, Ray Allen, Posey (although he could opt out and be gone), and Tony Allen.

Personally I think Tony Allen is on his way out.  He has not improved much since his rookie year, and he is running out of chances.  Not to mention, I believe that CDR, Walker, and Rush could all be better than Tony almost immediately.  You are right that they won't be getting minutes over Posey, however, in an 82 game season you need more than 3 guys for depth in those two positions (SG, SF).  Especially since Ray Allen seems to be breaking down a bit over the minutes he played this year, and IMO could really be helped by dropping down to 30 minutes or less per game.

If we are able to get a talented wing (like the 3 mentioned) who could come in and provide depth, and scoring off the bench, then I think that is absolutely filling a need.

That's a good point.  I suppose, however, that since we have some good players at that position, it's a less critical need than center.

Well, we have a heck of a starting center right now.  Perkins has solidified his spot in this team, and has played like one of the best defensive centers in the league throughout the playoffs, and has now started to even show some confidence on offense.

More importantly though, it is much tougher to find a rotation quality Center who can contribute right away than a rotation quality wing who can contribute right away.  I think there are a few guys who have some potential there, but no one you could actually count on filling a role anytime soon.

It makes much more sense to get a veteran big man to back up Perk, and using the pick to solidify the wing position (I think Rush, CDR, Walker, and Lee could all play right away).

If they did want to go after a project big man, I also think they would be much better off going after one of the more athletic ones.  The C's system really requires big men to have good mobility, and in general, athleticism translates more to the NBA for big men more than raw size.  So you are much better off taking a 6'11" guy who can move than a 7'2" guy who can't.

If they want to look at big men, they should be looking at guys like Hardin, Plaisted, Hickson, or Nathan Jawai.

If they really want a skilled big man with potential, they should try to move up a bit to get Kosta Koufos.  He has the potential to be a star, and is incredibly skilled both in the post and on the perimeter.

[greg_kite]

Does anyone else think like I do that this whole thread could be for naught because the Celtics aren't planning on bringing in anymore youth.

I see them selling or trading the pick(after they pick of course to maintain the rule about trading #1s in two consecutive years).

They aren't putting a team in the Summer League.

They obviously feel vets are the way to go as they brought in Brown and Cassell for the playoffs necessitating going away from some of their youth.

They already have Rondo, 22, Perkins, 23, Davis, 22, Powe, 24, and Pruitt at 22. That's one third of their roster that will next year be 25 and under.

The Celtics get rid of the pick and use the LLe and MLE and vet mins to fill out the roster next year. At least that's the way I see it.

With Danny drafting I don't think you sell the pick.  You keep it and try to get another valuable piece.  This might only be a two year window at this level so if he can get any kind of head start on the rebuilding he should take it.  Imagine if he gets the next Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Manu Ginobli or Leandro Barbosa.  All those guys were picked around this time of the draft.  If anyone can find those guys it's Danny.

[sk7326]

[/quote]
With Danny drafting I don't think you sell the pick.  You keep it and try to get another valuable piece.  This might only be a two year window at this level so if he can get any kind of head start on the rebuilding he should take it.  Imagine if he gets the next Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Manu Ginobli or Leandro Barbosa.  All those guys were picked around this time of the draft.  If anyone can find those guys it's Danny.
[/quote]

I agree.  HOWEVER, a guy he drafts at #30 comes with a guaranteed contract, with a limited ability to contribute to a possible world champion.  Also, with this team's sudden explosion, the veterans exceptions that we could not give away in previous years become seriously coveted.  Those key veterans like PJ and Cassell, there will be others out there, guys who will take the pay cut to play a role on a team like this.  That might just squeeze out a kid.  Looking at the 2008 free agent list, there are plenty of those types of candidates:

Eduardo Najera
Sagana Diop
Keyon Dooling
Grant Hill (Player Option)
James Jones (Player Option)
Beno Udrih
Kurt Thomas

And that is just on a pass through of guys I think would really bolster the Celtics bench.  There are others who could be upgrades (Juan Dixon over Eddie House perhaps).  Hell, putting on my this-will-never-happen dreamers hat, Jermaine O'Neal has an early termination option, and with his incredibly poor injury history, maybe at this stage of his career he'd take a pay cut to be a super sub in the Celtics front court.  Is that a pipe dream?  Yes, but this team's success and position as a contender allows such dreams to not be complete rubbish.

But going back to #30.  I think if there is a foreigner with greats tools/athleticism, Danny could very likely grab him and be happy to stuff him in Europe for a couple of years, and avoid having to use the roster spot or getting the guy's free agent clock started for the 2009 season.