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Author Topic: The Kyrie Irving free agency thread(to sign 4yr/$141M w/Nets page 105)  (Read 145632 times)

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Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #135 on: March 25, 2019, 03:09:26 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I ultimately don't think Kyrie is the player we need to win a championship, but the fans need to accept that the team has had a number of smaller failures that have just added up to a bigger disappointment. I think we could have done a few things strategically to be better, and Kyrie could have been willing to adapt to the team's makeup quite a bit better, but we were in trouble this year, regardless.

Hayward just hasn't been anything other than a non-starting rotation level player.
Horford hasn't had a great year and can't be relied on every game.
Likewise, Baynes has missed a lot of games with injuries and can't maintain his role.
Tatum isn't what we thought he was.
Morris surged early, but has regressed to being the borderline starter he's always been
Brown slumped early, and the team has struggled to establish a consistent role for him.
Rozier was handed a diminished role and has handled it badly.


The net result is there is no one established in a reliable scoring role for this team except Kyrie. The expectation was that Tatum would be that guy, and that Hayward would be getting there by now. Both guys have been big disappointments.

For their part, Ainge and Stevens could have had better years too. Ainge should have cared about roles more, and moved Morris and Rozier.

Stevens should demand that the team to play faster and move the ball more consistently. I also just don't understand what he is doing with Jaylen Brown. He's the only one on the roster right now who looks like he should be doing more. Try him as the second option and see what happens.
I gave you 5 TPs for this because it ties so fluidly into something I believe most need to understand, that being, the Celtics are a team and the failure of this season is that of the whole team.

Ainge: He signed Bird and obviously missed he had an unstable individual on the team. What Bird did is his fault, and that all adds in but we will get to him later. Ainge's handling of Bird hurt because it took up a roster spot that Ainge could have used to help the club. He took until February to do it. Bird should have been salary dumped in November and someone added to help this team. Ainge's fault.

Ainge: He appears frozen into doing nothing but wait for the offseason to trade for Davis. Also, how much did being so very little over the luxury tax affect his decision making in making additions or trades? If the plan was to hope for a Finals run and then add Davis, well, in concentrating on the latter he screwed up the former. Ainge's fault.

Stevens: Poor handling of Hayward and his minutes and being able to identify the psychology of what was happening in his locker and be able to prevent the division that occurred. Inability to define roles and get the players to buy into those roles. The inability to get his players to consistently give an effort. The inability to get his players to stop taking so many lazy threes a game. Really bad season of knowing when to take timeouts. Steven's fault.

Players: There is everything td450 said:

"Hayward just hasn't been anything other than a non-starting rotation level player.
Horford hasn't had a great year and can't be relied on every game.
Likewise, Baynes has missed a lot of games with injuries and can't maintain his role.
Tatum isn't what we thought he was.
Morris surged early, but has regressed to being the borderline starter he's always been
Brown slumped early, and the team has struggled to establish a consistent role for him.
Rozier was handed a diminished role and has handled it badly." All those players faults.

Also:
Kyrie: Exceptional play all year. Just fantastic. Probably top 3 PG in the league this year. Candidate for worst leader ever. His very public criticism of the young guys and bringing locker room problems out of the locker room really hurt this team. His handling of the media during the whole Klutch manufactured drama hurt this team as well. Kyrie's fault.

Bird: I truly wonder how Bird's actions just before training camp started affected this team. Maybe none but, he was close with Brown and could have been close to many of the others as he was part of last year's team the whole year. If his actions caused a distraction that affected this team...Bird's fault.

Yabusele and Williams: Both players, as far as we fans can see in the ridiculously small amount of minutes both have played, haven't developed to help this team. Yabu's and RW's fault.

Smart: Awesome year but Smart being Smart means he still does a bunch of silly to stupid things. Forcing passes. Ridiculous layups. Bad threes. And of course stuff like the Philly game. I think he matures out of all those things in another couple years but for now, even in a great season, he still did some things that weren't great. Smart's fault.

The reason I include Smart is because I think everyone on this team is, in their own way, no matter how much, responsible for the season that is occurring. If this season turns out to be a failure, then it will be the failure of the whole team. From Ainge to Stevens to the rest of the coaching staff to the scouting department to each and every player including Jabari Bird, everyone on this team is at fault for the failure if this year ends up a failure.

It's not just one person's fault.



Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #136 on: March 25, 2019, 03:15:01 PM »

Offline gpap

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Not really.

This "trader Danny" reputation is a myth. Ainge is actually alot more gun shy than people make him out to be. The last meaningful trade he made was getting Kyrie and that was back in August 2017. Since then, he hasn't done anything.

Go back to the big 3 era with KG. After he acquired KG and Ray in the summer of 2007, do you know how many trades Ainge made between 2007 and when the big 3 era ended in 2013? Two...only 2 trades in 6 years. Eddie House for Nate and Perk/Nate for Krstic/Green/1st rounder.

If anything, alot of times Ainge isn't aggressive enough and is always "looking to the future."

We've been "looking to the future" since winning 2008. This team needs to WIN NOW and forget the future. How many more "look to the future" are we gonna keep hearing? By then it'll probably exceed our 22-year drought. When that future comes, worry about it later.
Agree in retrospect Ainge should have traded for Butler and George in the summer of 2017 to pair them with Kyrie , Hayward and Horford. I think at that point in time it would have taken brown and filler for George and number 3 pick (or a swap) for butler. He didn’t do those moves but given how weak the Eastern Conference has been we would probably make the finals last year even with the injuries we had

In fairness to Ainge, I think he did try to trade for Paul George on draft night in 2017 but the Pacers weren't interested in what
the Celts were offering and instead Indy opted to trade PG to OKC for Oladipo and Sabonis.

As for Butler, my recollection is there wasn't enough interest from Ainge/Stevens in Butler to give up the #3 pick(which ended up being Tatum) and/or Brown. So they wanted George, but couldn't get him. Then instead of going after Butler, they decided to go all in for Hayward.

Then, the Kyrie trade sort of fell in their lap in August of that summer.

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #137 on: March 25, 2019, 04:15:19 PM »

Offline GreenCoffeeBean

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Not really.

This "trader Danny" reputation is a myth. Ainge is actually alot more gun shy than people make him out to be. The last meaningful trade he made was getting Kyrie and that was back in August 2017. Since then, he hasn't done anything.

Go back to the big 3 era with KG. After he acquired KG and Ray in the summer of 2007, do you know how many trades Ainge made between 2007 and when the big 3 era ended in 2013? Two...only 2 trades in 6 years. Eddie House for Nate and Perk/Nate for Krstic/Green/1st rounder.

If anything, alot of times Ainge isn't aggressive enough and is always "looking to the future."

We've been "looking to the future" since winning 2008. This team needs to WIN NOW and forget the future. How many more "look to the future" are we gonna keep hearing? By then it'll probably exceed our 22-year drought. When that future comes, worry about it later.
Agree in retrospect Ainge should have traded for Butler and George in the summer of 2017 to pair them with Kyrie , Hayward and Horford. I think at that point in time it would have taken brown and filler for George and number 3 pick (or a swap) for butler. He didn’t do those moves but given how weak the Eastern Conference has been we would probably make the finals last year even with the injuries we had

Hahaha what? How do you afford that?

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #138 on: March 25, 2019, 04:25:35 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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You know what? If Smart was the actual point it would solve so many problems this team has. I'm dead serious.

Then we go after a big with that salary spot, because we all know Gordon ain't going anywhere.

Develope our picks and keep it moving.

But who am I kidding though...Danny has a trade-gambling problem :)

Not really.

This "trader Danny" reputation is a myth. Ainge is actually alot more gun shy than people make him out to be. The last meaningful trade he made was getting Kyrie and that was back in August 2017. Since then, he hasn't done anything.

Go back to the big 3 era with KG. After he acquired KG and Ray in the summer of 2007, do you know how many trades Ainge made between 2007 and when the big 3 era ended in 2013? Two...only 2 trades in 6 years. Eddie House for Nate and Perk/Nate for Krstic/Green/1st rounder.

If anything, alot of times Ainge isn't aggressive enough and is always "looking to the future."

We've been "looking to the future" since winning 2008. This team needs to WIN NOW and forget the future. How many more "look to the future" are we gonna keep hearing? By then it'll probably exceed our 22-year drought. When that future comes, worry about it later.
Agree in retrospect Ainge should have traded for Butler and George in the summer of 2017 to pair them with Kyrie , Hayward and Horford. I think at that point in time it would have taken brown and filler for George and number 3 pick (or a swap) for butler. He didn’t do those moves but given how weak the Eastern Conference has been we would probably make the finals last year even with the injuries we had

Hahaha what? How do you afford that?
Given what George and butler were traded for ... brown and the number 3 pick at the time would be enough for us to acquire them... salary matching would have been tough but not impossible.. Kyrie , George and butler were all in the 18-21 M salary range at the time ... we could  afford it.. I think a team (especially Celtics) can afford to have 5 guys making $30M a year if the rest of the players are on rookie or vet min contracts.... in fact I think that’s the most realistic way to buy your way into contending... see the warriors payroll next year..

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #139 on: March 25, 2019, 04:59:11 PM »

Offline ozgod

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It's not just one person's fault.

Scapegoating is so much easier when you focus on one person though isn't it  ::)
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #140 on: March 25, 2019, 05:27:15 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It's not just one person's fault.


I agree with this.


Part of the issue with Kyrie, though, is that he acts like he wants to be the guy who fields all the tough questions and gets all the credit, positive and negative, for the way the team plays.

But he hasn't backed that up this year by doing all the big and small things on and off the court that a franchise player has to do in order to carry the team through difficulties.

That could be things like propping up the young guys when they have bad games or make mistakes (instead of throwing them under the bus over and over).  It could be things like coming in and hitting a few shots or forcing his way to the free throw line when the offense has gone cold.

It could be something like stepping up to answer questions after a bad loss and take responsibility without any hedging or deflecting or suggesting that the games don't matter.


Basically, he could act like Damian Lillard.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/4/5/17189070/damian-lillard-portland-trail-blazers-nba-playoffs-western-conference



Similar players on the court.

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Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #141 on: March 25, 2019, 05:38:46 PM »

Online RJ87

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It's not just one person's fault.


I agree with this.


Part of the issue with Kyrie, though, is that he acts like he wants to be the guy who fields all the tough questions and gets all the credit, positive and negative, for the way the team plays.

But he hasn't backed that up this year by doing all the big and small things on and off the court that a franchise player has to do in order to carry the team through difficulties.

That could be things like propping up the young guys when they have bad games or make mistakes (instead of throwing them under the bus over and over).  It could be things like coming in and hitting a few shots or forcing his way to the free throw line when the offense has gone cold.

It could be something like stepping up to answer questions after a bad loss and take responsibility without any hedging or deflecting or suggesting that the games don't matter.


Basically, he could act like Damian Lillard.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/4/5/17189070/damian-lillard-portland-trail-blazers-nba-playoffs-western-conference



Similar players on the court.

Night and day off the court.

And here's the issue I have with this assessment. For some people, leadership is natural. For some, it takes time. You have to go through issues and try to figure it out. Celtics fans should be used to this - Paul Pierce didn't become The Captain that we all know and love until his 30s. Even KG punched a teammate (or two) in his 20s. For all the talk about young guys vs. vets, Kyrie was 26 coming into this season. I'm sure he was buying into the hype about how good this team was going to be just as the media and fanbase did, but there's been some bumps in the road and he hasn't done as well with leading this team as hoped. Why does he need to figure right away though? Why can't we give him time to mature and hopefully get there?

Even with that said, Kyrie is one part of this team. There are other guys who have more experience (Al) , longer tenures in Boston (Smart), even higher salaries (Gordon) whose leadership should also be counted on, but one guy continually gets thrown under the bus win or lose. It's weird to me.
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PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #142 on: March 25, 2019, 05:48:43 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Even with that said, Kyrie is one part of this team. There are other guys who have more experience (Al) , longer tenures in Boston (Smart), even higher salaries (Gordon) whose leadership should also be counted on, but one guy continually gets thrown under the bus win or lose. It's weird to me.


The problem is two-fold:

1) Kyrie acts like he should be the one that everybody looks to, win or lose.

2) The young players clearly look to Kyrie first and foremost, not the other guys you mentioned.


I agree that it would be ideal, and would make more sense, if Horford and Smart were the leaders in the locker room and on the court.  It would be ideal if the media treated them as such.  The team would be better off if the younger players tried to emulate Horford and/or Smart rather than Kyrie or Morris.


Unfortunately, that's not what has happened.  For better or worse, the most famous, highest scoring guy on your team is going to tend to be viewed and treated as the leader. 

Yes, Kyrie is not a natural leader and clearly has a lot of work to do in that area.  That shouldn't be an excuse for him.  Rather, it means that currently he's not as well equipped to be the lead guy on a good team as we hoped.
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Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #143 on: March 25, 2019, 06:55:21 PM »

Online RJ87

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Even with that said, Kyrie is one part of this team. There are other guys who have more experience (Al) , longer tenures in Boston (Smart), even higher salaries (Gordon) whose leadership should also be counted on, but one guy continually gets thrown under the bus win or lose. It's weird to me.


The problem is two-fold:

1) Kyrie acts like he should be the one that everybody looks to, win or lose.

2) The young players clearly look to Kyrie first and foremost, not the other guys you mentioned.


I agree that it would be ideal, and would make more sense, if Horford and Smart were the leaders in the locker room and on the court.  It would be ideal if the media treated them as such.  The team would be better off if the younger players tried to emulate Horford and/or Smart rather than Kyrie or Morris.


Unfortunately, that's not what has happened.  For better or worse, the most famous, highest scoring guy on your team is going to tend to be viewed and treated as the leader. 

Yes, Kyrie is not a natural leader and clearly has a lot of work to do in that area. That shouldn't be an excuse for him.  Rather, it means that currently he's not as well equipped to be the lead guy on a good team as we hoped.

I never said it should be an excuse for him. Rather, I said he hasn't been a good leader but that I don't understand why there's a rush to write him off as we've seen other players lack in that area grow into the role.

And again, there's a complete lack of accountability for other guys on the roster that's odd. The best teams, the ones we should be trying to emulate, haven't been led solely by one guy. GSW has Curry and Draymond, the Spurs teams had Timmy/Manu/Parker - even as Kawhi emerged as the team's best player. Mavs had Dirk and Terry. Even the Heatles had Wade and Bron, and to some extent, Bosh.
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Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #144 on: March 25, 2019, 07:05:39 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I ultimately don't think Kyrie is the player we need to win a championship, but the fans need to accept that the team has had a number of smaller failures that have just added up to a bigger disappointment. I think we could have done a few things strategically to be better, and Kyrie could have been willing to adapt to the team's makeup quite a bit better, but we were in trouble this year, regardless.

Hayward just hasn't been anything other than a non-starting rotation level player.
Horford hasn't had a great year and can't be relied on every game.
Likewise, Baynes has missed a lot of games with injuries and can't maintain his role.
Tatum isn't what we thought he was.
Morris surged early, but has regressed to being the borderline starter he's always been
Brown slumped early, and the team has struggled to establish a consistent role for him.
Rozier was handed a diminished role and has handled it badly.


The net result is there is no one established in a reliable scoring role for this team except Kyrie. The expectation was that Tatum would be that guy, and that Hayward would be getting there by now. Both guys have been big disappointments.

For their part, Ainge and Stevens could have had better years too. Ainge should have cared about roles more, and moved Morris and Rozier.

Stevens should demand that the team to play faster and move the ball more consistently. I also just don't understand what he is doing with Jaylen Brown. He's the only one on the roster right now who looks like he should be doing more. Try him as the second option and see what happens.
I gave you 5 TPs for this because it ties so fluidly into something I believe most need to understand, that being, the Celtics are a team and the failure of this season is that of the whole team.

Ainge: He signed Bird and obviously missed he had an unstable individual on the team. What Bird did is his fault, and that all adds in but we will get to him later. Ainge's handling of Bird hurt because it took up a roster spot that Ainge could have used to help the club. He took until February to do it. Bird should have been salary dumped in November and someone added to help this team. Ainge's fault.

Ainge: He appears frozen into doing nothing but wait for the offseason to trade for Davis. Also, how much did being so very little over the luxury tax affect his decision making in making additions or trades? If the plan was to hope for a Finals run and then add Davis, well, in concentrating on the latter he screwed up the former. Ainge's fault.

Stevens: Poor handling of Hayward and his minutes and being able to identify the psychology of what was happening in his locker and be able to prevent the division that occurred. Inability to define roles and get the players to buy into those roles. The inability to get his players to consistently give an effort. The inability to get his players to stop taking so many lazy threes a game. Really bad season of knowing when to take timeouts. Steven's fault.

Players: There is everything td450 said:

"Hayward just hasn't been anything other than a non-starting rotation level player.
Horford hasn't had a great year and can't be relied on every game.
Likewise, Baynes has missed a lot of games with injuries and can't maintain his role.
Tatum isn't what we thought he was.
Morris surged early, but has regressed to being the borderline starter he's always been
Brown slumped early, and the team has struggled to establish a consistent role for him.
Rozier was handed a diminished role and has handled it badly." All those players faults.

Also:
Kyrie: Exceptional play all year. Just fantastic. Probably top 3 PG in the league this year. Candidate for worst leader ever. His very public criticism of the young guys and bringing locker room problems out of the locker room really hurt this team. His handling of the media during the whole Klutch manufactured drama hurt this team as well. Kyrie's fault.

Bird: I truly wonder how Bird's actions just before training camp started affected this team. Maybe none but, he was close with Brown and could have been close to many of the others as he was part of last year's team the whole year. If his actions caused a distraction that affected this team...Bird's fault.

Yabusele and Williams: Both players, as far as we fans can see in the ridiculously small amount of minutes both have played, haven't developed to help this team. Yabu's and RW's fault.

Smart: Awesome year but Smart being Smart means he still does a bunch of silly to stupid things. Forcing passes. Ridiculous layups. Bad threes. And of course stuff like the Philly game. I think he matures out of all those things in another couple years but for now, even in a great season, he still did some things that weren't great. Smart's fault.

The reason I include Smart is because I think everyone on this team is, in their own way, no matter how much, responsible for the season that is occurring. If this season turns out to be a failure, then it will be the failure of the whole team. From Ainge to Stevens to the rest of the coaching staff to the scouting department to each and every player including Jabari Bird, everyone on this team is at fault for the failure if this year ends up a failure.

It's not just one person's fault.

And don’t forget that we’ve got an assistant coach facing a felony for institutional corruption. It’s hard to ask players to sacrifice when you cheated and broke trust at your last stop.

This entire season has had bad juju.


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Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #145 on: March 26, 2019, 04:59:35 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Even with that said, Kyrie is one part of this team. There are other guys who have more experience (Al) , longer tenures in Boston (Smart), even higher salaries (Gordon) whose leadership should also be counted on, but one guy continually gets thrown under the bus win or lose. It's weird to me.


The problem is two-fold:

1) Kyrie acts like he should be the one that everybody looks to, win or lose.

2) The young players clearly look to Kyrie first and foremost, not the other guys you mentioned.


Is (2) for sure true?   I don't know if we really know that the young players clearly look to Kyrie first and foremost.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #146 on: March 26, 2019, 10:37:02 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Even with that said, Kyrie is one part of this team. There are other guys who have more experience (Al) , longer tenures in Boston (Smart), even higher salaries (Gordon) whose leadership should also be counted on, but one guy continually gets thrown under the bus win or lose. It's weird to me.


The problem is two-fold:

1) Kyrie acts like he should be the one that everybody looks to, win or lose.

2) The young players clearly look to Kyrie first and foremost, not the other guys you mentioned.


I agree that it would be ideal, and would make more sense, if Horford and Smart were the leaders in the locker room and on the court.  It would be ideal if the media treated them as such.  The team would be better off if the younger players tried to emulate Horford and/or Smart rather than Kyrie or Morris.


Unfortunately, that's not what has happened.  For better or worse, the most famous, highest scoring guy on your team is going to tend to be viewed and treated as the leader. 

Yes, Kyrie is not a natural leader and clearly has a lot of work to do in that area. That shouldn't be an excuse for him.  Rather, it means that currently he's not as well equipped to be the lead guy on a good team as we hoped.

I never said it should be an excuse for him. Rather, I said he hasn't been a good leader but that I don't understand why there's a rush to write him off as we've seen other players lack in that area grow into the role.

And again, there's a complete lack of accountability for other guys on the roster that's odd. The best teams, the ones we should be trying to emulate, haven't been led solely by one guy. GSW has Curry and Draymond, the Spurs teams had Timmy/Manu/Parker - even as Kawhi emerged as the team's best player. Mavs had Dirk and Terry. Even the Heatles had Wade and Bron, and to some extent, Bosh.
Kyrie has been in the league for 8 years.  He is who is at this point.  He isn't going to change and all of a sudden morph into the leader we want him to be.  That quite simply has never been his personality and it never will be.  And speaking of that, he is a pretty strange dude and always has been.  His odd world views aren't the easiest to get along with.  Couple that with his tremendous ego (and I'm not saying that is a bad thing in and of itself), and Kyrie quite simply shouldn't be the face of a franchise for his personality (let alone his actual game which isn't good enough).  Irving is at his best when he has someone as good or better than him next to him.  A person to take the spot light off, but that also recognizes that Irving can be the best closer in the game when he is on.  That is why him and James worked so well on the court and why I wouldn't be all that surprised to see Irving in a Lakers uniform next year.
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Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #147 on: March 27, 2019, 12:02:39 AM »

Offline gpap

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Even with that said, Kyrie is one part of this team. There are other guys who have more experience (Al) , longer tenures in Boston (Smart), even higher salaries (Gordon) whose leadership should also be counted on, but one guy continually gets thrown under the bus win or lose. It's weird to me.


The problem is two-fold:

1) Kyrie acts like he should be the one that everybody looks to, win or lose.

2) The young players clearly look to Kyrie first and foremost, not the other guys you mentioned.


I agree that it would be ideal, and would make more sense, if Horford and Smart were the leaders in the locker room and on the court.  It would be ideal if the media treated them as such.  The team would be better off if the younger players tried to emulate Horford and/or Smart rather than Kyrie or Morris.


Unfortunately, that's not what has happened.  For better or worse, the most famous, highest scoring guy on your team is going to tend to be viewed and treated as the leader. 

Yes, Kyrie is not a natural leader and clearly has a lot of work to do in that area. That shouldn't be an excuse for him.  Rather, it means that currently he's not as well equipped to be the lead guy on a good team as we hoped.

I never said it should be an excuse for him. Rather, I said he hasn't been a good leader but that I don't understand why there's a rush to write him off as we've seen other players lack in that area grow into the role.

And again, there's a complete lack of accountability for other guys on the roster that's odd. The best teams, the ones we should be trying to emulate, haven't been led solely by one guy. GSW has Curry and Draymond, the Spurs teams had Timmy/Manu/Parker - even as Kawhi emerged as the team's best player. Mavs had Dirk and Terry. Even the Heatles had Wade and Bron, and to some extent, Bosh.
Kyrie has been in the league for 8 years.  He is who is at this point.  He isn't going to change and all of a sudden morph into the leader we want him to be.  That quite simply has never been his personality and it never will be.  And speaking of that, he is a pretty strange dude and always has been.  His odd world views aren't the easiest to get along with.  Couple that with his tremendous ego (and I'm not saying that is a bad thing in and of itself), and Kyrie quite simply shouldn't be the face of a franchise for his personality (let alone his actual game which isn't good enough).  Irving is at his best when he has someone as good or better than him next to him.  A person to take the spot light off, but that also recognizes that Irving can be the best closer in the game when he is on.  That is why him and James worked so well on the court and why I wouldn't be all that surprised to see Irving in a Lakers uniform next year.

Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me either. If that did happen, the Celtics/Lakers rivalry will hit a fever pitch for me, personally.

Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #148 on: March 27, 2019, 12:29:02 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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I would just be happy if Kyrie would keep his mouth shut and dribble the ball less - Isaiah Thomas was not seen as the team leader when he was here - just as our most explosive scorer. Why can't Irving be happy being a great scoring guard in the league, an all-star and help a team win multiple titles, the Boston Celtics no less. That would be enough to get your #11 retired. Problem is, Kyrie Irving, by nature, is a restless soul. He is always going to find discontent in his current circumstance, for whatever reason that is. He gets in his own way.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 12:34:58 AM by tenn_smoothie »
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Re: This is why I don't want to sign Kyrie
« Reply #149 on: March 27, 2019, 03:49:57 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Even with that said, Kyrie is one part of this team. There are other guys who have more experience (Al) , longer tenures in Boston (Smart), even higher salaries (Gordon) whose leadership should also be counted on, but one guy continually gets thrown under the bus win or lose. It's weird to me.


The problem is two-fold:

1) Kyrie acts like he should be the one that everybody looks to, win or lose.

2) The young players clearly look to Kyrie first and foremost, not the other guys you mentioned.


Is (2) for sure true?   I don't know if we really know that the young players clearly look to Kyrie first and foremost.

In fact I would say the evidence we have points to (2) not being true. They seem to look to Horford first