LeBron doesn't want to change his game because it would make him "a roleplayer"

[MBunge]

He is the best player on the Heat.  The team needs to adjust to his game and not try to adjust to both his and Wade's "alpha male" game.  There can only be one, everyone else adjust around.


Look at the Celtics in 2008.  They made KG the alpha male, Pierce and Ray adjusted their games around KG.  Did it make Pierce or Ray less of stars?  No.  Star players are star players. 

Uh, did KG's game demand that Ray and Pierce stand around with a stick up their butts while KG pounded the ball into the ground?

KG has never been the same sort of offensive player that LeBron is. His career high usage is 2 points below LeBron's career average. Very different type of players, LeBron is more like Jordan.

That's the point.  LeBron/Wade/Bosh are a much different mix than KG/Paul/Ray.  Miami won't play together or function the way Boston did or does.  But if Wade and Bosh have to subordinate their games to LeBron...what the heck was the point of getting three such talented players together in the first place?

Mike

[LB3533]

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500? 


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed. 


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)

SNIP

The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three. 

If Cleveland can be 7-9 without LeBron but LeBron can only be 9-8 with Wade and Bosh, what does that say?

If LeBron can't function on the court without turning a scoring champion and a 20/10 guy into role players, it seems to me that he's as much of a problem as anything else in Miami.

Mike

Cavs should be 6-10...we should have never lost to them.

Of their 7 wins, 6 are against teams below the .500 mark. The Cavs can win against inferior teams, just like any team in the NBA on any given night etc. etc.

Cavs can't keep their current play up because their roster is just not that talented and also their schedule will pick up and they won't be facing mediocre to poorish teams anymore.

 

[BballTim]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

  A few points though. MJ was older than James when he changed his game. His numbers went down but his usage% was about the same between those two years. And the change was slight, so one could argue that the change to LeBron's game this year is as significant as the change to MJ's game. One big difference was that the Bulls roster was continually tailored to MJ's game while LeBron is now on a team that isn't conducive to his game.

[snively]

LeBron and Wade are both shooting at or near career lows from the field.  They are really hurting each other's games. 

Can't really blame LeBron without blaming Wade at the same time. 

[Finkelskyhook]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

  A few points though. MJ was older than James when he changed his game. His numbers went down but his usage% was about the same between those two years. And the change was slight, so one could argue that the change to LeBron's game this year is as significant as the change to MJ's game. One big difference was that the Bulls roster was continually tailored to MJ's game while LeBron is now on a team that isn't conducive to his game.

LOL....Exactly what team would be conducive to the messiah's game?  He's the ultimate role player already....He plays every role on his team to the detriment of his teammates.

The best illustration is Shaq.  When Shaq is on the court this season, his teammates play to his unique talents to the benefit of the team.  When Shaq was on the court last season, the messiah played to the messiah's talents and Shaq's talent was neutralized.

The messiah is the modern day Iverson.

Teams that the messiah plays for...(And like Iverson, there will be many teams he plays for) Will continually tinker, retune, and overhaul their rosters so they're "conducive" to the messiah's game....With the same result.

Ultimately the messiah will end up a more talented, dynamic, but ultimately equally successful version of Iverson.  

Jordan, Jabbar, Duncan, Bird, Garnett, Bryant, etc care/cared about winning above their marketability. The difference between them and the messiah is that their marketability was a result of their team's success.  It's most noteworthy with Bryant and Jabbar because they won championships with completely different rosters.   The messiah doesn't have to have the success they did to be more marketable than they were.  IMHO, the coddling and ridiculous overt officiating partiality the messiah gets on the court has hurt his game.  Winning stroked/strokes the above egos.  The messiah is wired different.

[wdleehi]

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500?  


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed.  


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)

SNIP

The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three.  

If Cleveland can be 7-9 without LeBron but LeBron can only be 9-8 with Wade and Bosh, what does that say?

If LeBron can't function on the court without turning a scoring champion and a 20/10 guy into role players, it seems to me that he's as much of a problem as anything else in Miami.

Mike

That Wade and Bosh need to do a better job or be put in a better position to help Lebron.  The Heat have shown at points of being scary.  It's when they put the ball in Lebrons hands.


No star can win if the team plays three different offenses depending on who they want to score.  There needs to be a plan in place that takes advantage of the teams strengths. 


Would the Celtics have worked if Pierce or Ray demanded the ball go through them?  No. 



If the Heat want to win, they need to pick a single strategy.  An offense going through Lebron has proven capable of taking a team to the NBA finals without a good 2nd option.  It is up to Wade and Bosh to fit themselves into that offense so they can support Lebron while still playing like stars. 




Oh, and they need depth and a PG. 

[BballTim]

I don't see Jordan ever change his game to support Pippen. It was the other way around.

I disagree.  Jordan changed his game for the betterment of his team, going from a guy who averaged around 33/8/8 to a player putting up 30/5/5.  Jordan was willing to give up the ball more, playing within the offense rather than a guy who needed the ball for the first 20 seconds of the 24 second clock.  Obviously the offense was still run around Jordan, but he scored less and got fewer assists and rebounds, because he learned to trust his teammates, not only to make open baskets, but to do the right things when needed.  Jordan also became a better outside shooter and better defender as time went on.

Now, Jordan probably didn't change his game drastically, but he absolutely did modify his player to better mesh with his teammates, which is all anybody is asking Lebron to do.

  A few points though. MJ was older than James when he changed his game. His numbers went down but his usage% was about the same between those two years. And the change was slight, so one could argue that the change to LeBron's game this year is as significant as the change to MJ's game. One big difference was that the Bulls roster was continually tailored to MJ's game while LeBron is now on a team that isn't conducive to his game.

LOL....Exactly what team would be conducive to the messiah's game?  He's the ultimate role player already....He plays every role on his team to the detriment of his teammates.

  Better shooters maybe? Better defenders as well. Cleveland had the best record in the league a couple of years in a row and they've gone deep in the playoffs more than once. You act like he's been hanging around 40 wins and getting beat in the first round every year.

The best illustration is Shaq.  When Shaq is on the court this season, his teammates play to his unique talents to the benefit of the team.  When Shaq was on the court last season, the messiah played to the messiah's talents and Shaq's talent was neutralized.

  Shaq is playing with significantly better players at 3 of the other 4 starting spots. Want to compare the attention KG and RA get to what AV and Anthony Parker command? And LeBron can't run an offense or distribute the ball like Rondo, but then only a couple of people in the league can and they're all pgs.

Teams that the messiah plays for...(And like Iverson, there will be many teams he plays for) Will continually tinker, retune, and overhaul their rosters so they're "conducive" to the messiah's game....With the same result.

You can't even make a serious argument that MJ's teams were as successful as LeBron's teams at the same ages. LeBron's biggest problem is impatience, wanting the quick fix every season instead of letting his GM build for the long term. And, again, he's had much more success than MJ, both in the regular season and in the playoffs at the same point in their careers.

Jordan, Jabbar, Duncan, Bird, Garnett, Bryant, etc care/cared about winning above their marketability. The difference between them and the messiah is that their marketability was a result of their team's success. 

  Jordan was as interested if not more interested in stats than winning in the early portions of his career. Before Bird's back problem and Magic's HIV people would have chuckled if you claimed MJ was in their class of players.

[BballTim]

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500?  


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed.  


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)

SNIP

The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three.  

If Cleveland can be 7-9 without LeBron but LeBron can only be 9-8 with Wade and Bosh, what does that say?

  For starters, it says that making your 2nd best player a ball dominant slasher without much of an outside shot doesn't complement his game. Another way to look at it, though, is to see how close Cleveland comes to 60+ wins without him.

  How many fewer wins than last year are you expecting from Cleveland?

[NoraG1]

That article is trash.

I don't get why Lebron should be separated with Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron said he won't become a role player.

What does being a role player have anything to do with the holy trinity of basketball?

Did his airness or Magic or Bird ever join forces and was asked to be role players?

Would either three of their egos allowed them to accept a role player's role?

So basically, Lebron shouldn't be in the same class as Jordan, Magic and Bird because Lebron will not accept being a lesser player.

I mean, Jordan, Magic and Bird were the greatest role players ever!!!

Lebron, why can't you be more like those 3 awesome role playesrs?

I think you're misreading the article.  Nobody is saying that Lebron should be a role-player. 

Rather, they're saying that his philosophy of "if I change my game, then that makes me a role player" is a load of bunk.  The counter-examples (Jordan, Bird, Magic) are of elite, HOF players who did change their games.

That article is poorly written and Lebron's quote is probably taken too far out of context or I am just interpreting his quote too strongly.

Just playing on the same team with Wade has changed Lebron's game. The ball is not in Lebron's hands 90% of the time anymore. Same deal goes for Wade.

To ask Lebron to change his game more would make no sense because the Heat didn't sign Lebron to play like a lesser player.

Mediocre basketball deserves a mediocre article I guess

[NoraG1]

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500?  


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed.  


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)

SNIP

The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three.  

If Cleveland can be 7-9 without LeBron but LeBron can only be 9-8 with Wade and Bosh, what does that say?

If LeBron can't function on the court without turning a scoring champion and a 20/10 guy into role players, it seems to me that he's as much of a problem as anything else in Miami.

Mike

Cavs should be 6-10...we should have never lost to them.

Of their 7 wins, 6 are against teams below the .500 mark. The Cavs can win against inferior teams, just like any team in the NBA on any given night etc. etc.

Cavs can't keep their current play up because their roster is just not that talented and also their schedule will pick up and they won't be facing mediocre to poorish teams anymore.

 

Miami's record should be worse too then.

[Boris Badenov]

The missing ingredient for the Heat is a coach who's both smart enough to recognize the right scheme for these players, and mentally tough enough to get the players to buy in.

Even Jordan has admitted that Phil Jackson played a significant role in getting him to see the light.

Right now the Heat have such a guy - but he's in the front office, not coaching. I expect that to change pretty soon.

[Finkelskyhook]

The missing ingredient for the Heat is a coach who's both smart enough to recognize the right scheme for these players, and mentally tough enough to get the players to buy in.

Even Jordan has admitted that Phil Jackson played a significant role in getting him to see the light.

Right now the Heat have such a guy - but he's in the front office, not coaching. I expect that to change pretty soon.

Riley will probably be their coach by mid-season.  I'll maintain Riley wouldn't have assembled this train wreck unless his ego told him he could coach it....And they'll have a similar turnaround as the Cowboys...But it won't last.   Either the messiah or Wade will have to go.  The both need the ball too much.

[nba is the worst]

He is the best player on the Heat.  The team needs to adjust to his game and not try to adjust to both his and Wade's "alpha male" game.  There can only be one, everyone else adjust around.


Look at the Celtics in 2008.  They made KG the alpha male, Pierce and Ray adjusted their games around KG.  Did it make Pierce or Ray less of stars?  No.  Star players are star players. 

Uh, did KG's game demand that Ray and Pierce stand around with a stick up their butts while KG pounded the ball into the ground?

The whole problem with LeBron is exactly that everyone has always "adjusted around" him.  No one has ever made him do anything he didn't want to do or made him play a role on a team he didn't want to play.  People made excuses for LeBron in Cleveland, saying he didn't have enough talent around him.  Well, even with the weaknesses in the Heat roster, Bron is now playing with the two most talented teammates he's ever had in the NBA.  Do you see Bron doing ANYTHING on the court to make best use of that talent?

Oh, and that Cleveland team that everyone thought sucked around LeBron?  They're now sitting at 7-9 with the 8th best record in the East and have one more road win than the Heat.

Mike

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500?  


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed.  


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)


And Lebron has added to his game.  His defense has greatly improved from 2008 to 2010.  


Lebron quit?  Then so did Kobe against the Celtics in the playoffs because his numbers were worst.  Good thing has Gasol (the real LA MVP in that series)  Give credit where credit belongs.  Lebron didn't quit.  He got nailed by the Celtics defense.  


Is he selfish?  Yep.

Does he have to learn to put more trust in his teammates?  Yes.  Once those teammates start proving themselves to him.   How many bad games have we seen Wade and Bosh have this season?


The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three.  

I disagree on multiple points.

1. The Cavs have a new coach and system, and are still improving.  They are learning to play as a team as opposed to a supporting cast.

2. To claim "quitting" is based on numbers rather than watching a player suddenly play with no effort doesn't make sense.

C's fans and LeBronists are the only people I've seen who credit the C's defense for what LeBron didn't do in games 4 and 5...

3. Teams built around one p[layer don't usually win titles due to lack of balance.  And with the Heat's flawed roster, that can only change via trade.

I'm with Roy - LeBron needs a post game if the Heat are to succeed.

The Heat should hire Hakeem as a coach!

[nba is the worst]

So they went from the best record in the NBA and now they are sub-500? 


Yeah, that team is going places.  Good thing they are in the East where sub 500 teams can make the playoffs to be sacrificed to the number 1 seed. 


Cleveland stinks and are playing over their head right now.  They want to prove they do not need Lebron.  They will crash back down.  (well crash as hard as a sub 500 team can)

SNIP

The Heat need a strategy.  Their best player is Lebron.  It should be built around him, not all three. 

If Cleveland can be 7-9 without LeBron but LeBron can only be 9-8 with Wade and Bosh, what does that say?

If LeBron can't function on the court without turning a scoring champion and a 20/10 guy into role players, it seems to me that he's as much of a problem as anything else in Miami.

Mike

Cavs should be 6-10...we should have never lost to them.

Of their 7 wins, 6 are against teams below the .500 mark. The Cavs can win against inferior teams, just like any team in the NBA on any given night etc. etc.

Cavs can't keep their current play up because their roster is just not that talented and also their schedule will pick up and they won't be facing mediocre to poorish teams anymore.
 

The ironic thing about this is that of the Heat's 9 wins, 8 are against teams below the .500 mark...

Why do you say that "Cavs should be 6-10...we should have never lost to them" - I watched that game and the Cavs deserved to win - they played harder.

[2short]

The offense should be run through Lebron on the block much like larry bird.  Probably no one can remember it but Lebron USED TO BE a great passer.  He's pretty much a ball hog now and no I don't care what his assist numbers are, he needs to dominate ball and everyone else on his team(s) stand.  Back to my original point, lebron can post up EVERY sf in the nba, sure a blake griffin could cover him down low but he can pass out and move.  He needs to get dirty and stay on the box, rebound when it matters and play good team ball.
Anyone think Love is that great of a rebounder or he is just out working the many many nba players who stand waiting for rebound or instead of boxing out jump as high as they can for "posters"