Author Topic: Windhorst: Ainge was "really upset" about tampering in regards to Horford  (Read 9282 times)

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Offline Moranis

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Wasn't it also tampering when they went into negotiations with Kemba Walker before even June 30th

if you aint tempering you aint trying, and it aint tampering till you get caught.

Well, there's ways to get caught. It's obvious tampering was involved with Horford and Philly.

Horford opted out back on June 18th and immediately after there were rumors that he was already gone with a "mystery" team willing to offer him a max. Pretty easy to figure out tampering was going on.
It isn't tampering at least as has been presented.  At least no more than what Boston did with Kemba or pretty much every team did.  This just seems like a bunch of sour grapes. 

And the other side of this was, if Ainge knew what Horford's market was, he could have matched it.  Why didn't he?  Ainge was never going to sign Horford for that contract, so what the heck is he complaining about.
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Offline gpap

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Wasn't it also tampering when they went into negotiations with Kemba Walker before even June 30th

if you aint tempering you aint trying, and it aint tampering till you get caught.

Well, there's ways to get caught. It's obvious tampering was involved with Horford and Philly.

Horford opted out back on June 18th and immediately after there were rumors that he was already gone with a "mystery" team willing to offer him a max. Pretty easy to figure out tampering was going on.
It isn't tampering at least as has been presented.  At least no more than what Boston did with Kemba or pretty much every team did.  This just seems like a bunch of sour grapes. 

And the other side of this was, if Ainge knew what Horford's market was, he could have matched it.  Why didn't he?  Ainge was never going to sign Horford for that contract, so what the heck is he complaining about.

Fair point. Unless Al already had his mind made up he was leaving Boston, regardless....

And I suppose a better question is why didn't Ainge acquire a power forward to replace Horford.

Offline tonydelk

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I don’t think there is any way we were giving him 86 for 3 anyways so it doesn’t really matter. Plus we probably did tamper with walker as others said

It seems the C's thought they were getting Al back at a reduced rate and were negotiating weeks before FA.  It seemed like it was a done deal.  Then all of a sudden out of the blue when they were negotiating he pulled out and it was over.  Al was the first FA to have been rumored to have a deal a week before FA started.  This is the issue.  If Philly waited and not tampered Al would probably have signed the C's deal.  I hope Al gets abused by PF's next year and age's a lot.  I will boo for his arse as hard as I will boo for Kryme.

Offline DrinkinCelticKool-Aid

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Another reason to dislike Al Horford.

He blew the Celtics off instead at least giving them a chance to match the offer or come close.

Not that I'm an Ainge defender, but something with Horford signing with the Sixers really doesn't sit well with me (not like Horford cares.)

Yeah I agree. I lost some respect with the fact he went there and blew them off too.

Offline Bobshot

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There was tampering all over the place this season. Silver has pretty much lost control of it.

The solution is to open up the free agency season  to give everyone a fair shot. No sense in trying to enforce what is unenforceable.

I think the real problem is FA players setting up situations where another player is under contract and forces his team to trade him so he can pair up with his friend. That should be verboten, and Silver has to do something about that. OKC lost two stars under contract like that. If I were Presti, I would have refused to trade George and then Westbrook, and hold them to honoring their guaranteed contracts. Silver should enforce that.

Offline Bobshot

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Regarding Horford, I think Al was a bit piqued when Ainge didn't give him some help up front in the stretch when Baynes went down. Horford is not a dominant player, and he had his hands full without up front help. Everybody thought Ainge was holding his chips for Davis, but he apparently changed his mind. Obviously, Tatum would have sealed the Davis deal, but he backed off on Tatum, and the Lakers found themselves competing with themselves--and the Pelicans who didn't have to trade him pre-season.

Ainge suddenly found himself short of bigs, especially with the other good teams stacking up on them. So he went out and got Kanter (good sign if he plays to his strengths inside) and Poirier (an unknown by NBA standards) and Tacko Fall ( a very tall shot in the dark). We'll see how all this plays out.

Offline KGs Knee

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There was tampering all over the place this season. Silver has pretty much lost control of it.

The solution is to open up the free agency season  to give everyone a fair shot. No sense in trying to enforce what is unenforceable.

I think the real problem is FA players setting up situations where another player is under contract and forces his team to trade him so he can pair up with his friend. That should be verboten, and Silver has to do something about that. OKC lost two stars under contract like that. If I were Presti, I would have refused to trade George and then Westbrook, and hold them to honoring their guaranteed contracts. Silver should enforce that.

Presti certainly could have taken that approach. Of course all that would have resulted from that was a couple of angry players, and a situation where no free agent worth their salt would ever consider signing with OKC as long as Presti was in charge. Other players take notice when teams act this way.

Offline gift

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If this report is true, then I'd guess the distinction the Celtics would make is that the Horford tampering involved actual negotiating and specific numbers which otherwise would have been an unknown. Whereas, when the Celtics have quickly made deals with players, there wasn't a lot of negotiation necessary. There was a max slot that everyone knew about and a max player everyone knew about and all they had to do was point out the obvious.

Online Neurotic Guy

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Al left Atlanta and he left Boston.  Every right to do it, but you can't blame fans for not liking it. 

Re: tampering, if Al knew his market before C's had a chance to make an offer I think this does influence the negotiating process.  Obviously, the C's could have made a Godfather offer after they became aware of other offers, but I do think there is a psychological component to Free Agency negotiations and timing and sequence can have an impact on decision-making.   

Offline gpap

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Regarding Horford, I think Al was a bit piqued when Ainge didn't give him some help up front in the stretch when Baynes went down. Horford is not a dominant player, and he had his hands full without up front help. Everybody thought Ainge was holding his chips for Davis, but he apparently changed his mind. Obviously, Tatum would have sealed the Davis deal, but he backed off on Tatum, and the Lakers found themselves competing with themselves--and the Pelicans who didn't have to trade him pre-season.

Ainge suddenly found himself short of bigs, especially with the other good teams stacking up on them. So he went out and got Kanter (good sign if he plays to his strengths inside) and Poirier (an unknown by NBA standards) and Tacko Fall ( a very tall shot in the dark). We'll see how all this plays out.

Well, there's no doubt Ainge deserves a big "F" for his performance in the last calendar year. Did nothing last offseason, did nothing leading up to the trade deadline, misread the Anthony Davis situation and misread the Kyrie situation.

And to a certain extent, you're right...he may have misread the Al Horford situation. It's quite possible Horford was ticked with the uncertain direction of the franchise and just decided to move on from Boston.

Offline RodyTur10

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Regarding Horford, I think Al was a bit piqued when Ainge didn't give him some help up front in the stretch when Baynes went down. Horford is not a dominant player, and he had his hands full without up front help. Everybody thought Ainge was holding his chips for Davis, but he apparently changed his mind. Obviously, Tatum would have sealed the Davis deal, but he backed off on Tatum, and the Lakers found themselves competing with themselves--and the Pelicans who didn't have to trade him pre-season.

Ainge suddenly found himself short of bigs, especially with the other good teams stacking up on them. So he went out and got Kanter (good sign if he plays to his strengths inside) and Poirier (an unknown by NBA standards) and Tacko Fall ( a very tall shot in the dark). We'll see how all this plays out.

TP, I think so too. Having to bang with the big centers in this league, be the sole rim protector, be the prime rebounder, set screens, initiate the offense from the post and stretch the floor, Horford had a lot of responsibilities. He must have missed a Millsap or Baynes to help him out. Now in Philadelphia he has Embiid to share a lot of the dirty work.

Offline Bobshot

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There was tampering all over the place this season. Silver has pretty much lost control of it.

The solution is to open up the free agency season  to give everyone a fair shot. No sense in trying to enforce what is unenforceable.

I think the real problem is FA players setting up situations where another player is under contract and forces his team to trade him so he can pair up with his friend. That should be verboten, and Silver has to do something about that. OKC lost two stars under contract like that. If I were Presti, I would have refused to trade George and then Westbrook, and hold them to honoring their guaranteed contracts. Silver should enforce that.

Presti certainly could have taken that approach. Of course all that would have resulted from that was a couple of angry players, and a situation where no free agent worth their salt would ever consider signing with OKC as long as Presti was in charge. Other players take notice when teams act this way.

I think somebody needs to put their foot down on this issue. Presti could have done Silver and other GMs  a favor if he rejected trade demands and forced these guys to play out their contracts. As it is, he lost both his stars--the core of his team. And he's left with a bunch of future draft picks he might not be around for all of.

Offline Evantime34

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There was tampering all over the place this season. Silver has pretty much lost control of it.

The solution is to open up the free agency season  to give everyone a fair shot. No sense in trying to enforce what is unenforceable.

I think the real problem is FA players setting up situations where another player is under contract and forces his team to trade him so he can pair up with his friend. That should be verboten, and Silver has to do something about that. OKC lost two stars under contract like that. If I were Presti, I would have refused to trade George and then Westbrook, and hold them to honoring their guaranteed contracts. Silver should enforce that.

Presti certainly could have taken that approach. Of course all that would have resulted from that was a couple of angry players, and a situation where no free agent worth their salt would ever consider signing with OKC as long as Presti was in charge. Other players take notice when teams act this way.

I think somebody needs to put their foot down on this issue. Presti could have done Silver and other GMs  a favor if he rejected trade demands and forced these guys to play out their contracts. As it is, he lost both his stars--the core of his team. And he's left with a bunch of future draft picks he might not be around for all of.
The Thunder also went from a team that got bounced in the first round with no legitimate avenues for improvement, to having the brightest future of any team in the league.

Those trades worked out great for the Thunder, they essentially got more for George than we got in the Nets trade. Presti probably did say no to George at first which caused the Clippers to have to give up an outrageous package. Presti probably bought himself 10 years of job security with those moves.
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Online Roy H.

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Another reason to dislike Al Horford.

He blew the Celtics off instead at least giving them a chance to match the offer or come close.

Not that I'm an Ainge defender, but something with Horford signing with the Sixers really doesn't sit well with me (not like Horford cares.)

Yeah I agree. I lost some respect with the fact he went there and blew them off too.

Where is it reported that Al blew the Celtics off?

According to the Celtics, they’re mad that Al “knew his market”. That sounds like they’re angry that they couldn’t get Al to commit to a below-market contract.

If the Celtics had met that market, there’s no indication that he would have left.


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Offline nickagneta

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Another reason to dislike Al Horford.

He blew the Celtics off instead at least giving them a chance to match the offer or come close.

Not that I'm an Ainge defender, but something with Horford signing with the Sixers really doesn't sit well with me (not like Horford cares.)

Yeah I agree. I lost some respect with the fact he went there and blew them off too.

Where is it reported that Al blew the Celtics off?

According to the Celtics, they’re mad that Al “knew his market”. That sounds like they’re angry that they couldn’t get Al to commit to a below-market contract.

If the Celtics had met that market, there’s no indication that he would have left.
It was reported by Mannix(I heard it him on WEEI), as well as Jackie M, I think, that when Horford opted out, he cut off all conversations with Ainge because he already had a mystery team out there willing to pay Horford money that Ainge was not near in his negotiations with Horford to that point. They could have extended the date for Al to opt in or out another week or more to continue talks but Al just shut down talks and opted out. His decision was seemingly already made.

Now, I don't remember if after that there were reports of Ainge and Horford having anymore talks or if Al gave the Celtics a chance to match, but at that point, when Al opted out, he did shut down talks with Ainge. Maybe that is what Drinkin....(sorry name is too long so from now on your just Drinkin to me) ....was referencing.