All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[tazzmaniac]

Would you rather be the Celtics or the 76ers right now? haha

That is an interesting question because right now the Sixers have the 2 best players on either team (Embiid and Butler) and might have the best rookie contract player (Simmons), but after that are very thin, while Boston is much deeper and has a lot more draft capital to improve the team through trades or drafts.  At the end of the day, I probably take the team with the best player, especially when that player is still super young (even with his injury history).  It is just a lot harder to find a true franchise player and Embiid certainly looks like one of those.

“Cocaine is a hell of a drug.”

Embiid is also the most injury prone of all the players (besides maybe Hayward) and I mean.... Embiid is literally the Process, not Simmons. He goes down and PHI is really screwed, even with Butler now added. That's where being deep (having depth) really helps. We even beat that PHI team without Kyrie and Hayward last season in just 5 games. They added Butler but it looks like Fultz is now a bust (not #1 pick value) and they still lack shooting outside of Reddick. Everyone loves to talk about Simmons and Embiid but it was their perimeter shooting that really helped them last year with the additions of Belinelli and Illyasova (also Covington & Saric). They were a .500 team before they added those 2 last season.

how many serious injuries has hayward had aside from last season that makes you write those words?

My bad lol I probably should have worded that better. Meant to say more "injury risk".

But coming off serious injuries like what Embiid and Hayward dealt with usually leaves a player with a higher risk to get hurt again in the future, unfortunately. That's not at all to say they will but it's just the risk gets or remains higher still than most other players (nagging injuries, complications from previous, etc.)

Embiid is 3 years from his 2nd foot surgery for the same injury.  Subsequent to that he's had meniscus surgery and the facial surgery from the collision with Fultz.  Both of which were minor and unrelated to the foot surgery.  At this point, is he really more of an injury risk than Irving or Butler?

You left out fractured vertebrae in college.

I'm curious if there is any actual statistic validity to the idea that centers with foot and leg problems are more prone to shorter careers than wings and guards with the same problems. There are obviously the high profile cases of ming, bowie, oden, Walton and our own mchale, but there are also a ton of high profile guys like tmac, Brandon Roy, penny hardaway and grant hill in this century of the top of my head. The idea that a guy with a bigger frame/more weight like embid would be at a higher risk makes sense logically, but I am not really sure if statistics data really bare this out. Anyone know?

Even if there was, it wouldn't be that relevant today.  The medical treatment and training is so much better and the environment is so much different.  McHale cut short his career by playing  with a broken foot.  That's much less likely to occur nowadays. 

[tazzmaniac]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

Someone smart will trade a first for him.  He may have been overdrafted by a couple of spots but he's still a top 10 pick in that draft. 

20 year old pointguards with a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio don't stay on the market for very long.

Yeah, and those kind of 20-year old point guards RARELY hit the market to begin with.

Seems like a pretty big red flag that PHI traded for Butler and now seem desperate to trade Fultz so fast. Also he's seeing a shoulder specialist after supposedly spending all of last year and the summer trying to heal and correct his issues. He may even miss more significant time right now.

There isn't any evidence that the Sixers are trying to trade Fultz and Fultz's agent denied reports that he wants to be traded.  Maybe that changes after the results from these  specialist visits are known.  However trading for Butler actually lessens the pressure on Fultz and the Sixers.  The Sixers have their 3 stars now so they have the option of waiting on Fultz to get right or at least "better" so that they could selectively showcase him and try to increase his trade value. 

[celticsclay]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

Someone smart will trade a first for him.  He may have been overdrafted by a couple of spots but he's still a top 10 pick in that draft. 

20 year old pointguards with a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio don't stay on the market for very long.

Yeah, and those kind of 20-year old point guards RARELY hit the market to begin with.

Seems like a pretty big red flag that PHI traded for Butler and now seem desperate to trade Fultz so fast. Also he's seeing a shoulder specialist after supposedly spending all of last year and the summer trying to heal and correct his issues. He may even miss more significant time right now.

There isn't any evidence that the Sixers are trying to trade Fultz and Fultz's agent denied reports that he wants to be traded.  Maybe that changes after the results from these  specialist visits are known.  However trading for Butler actually lessens the pressure on Fultz and the Sixers.  The Sixers have their 3 stars now so they have the option of waiting on Fultz to get right or at least "better" so that they could selectively showcase him and try to increase his trade value.

His agent, who is also a lawyer, gave a real lawyer answer on this. He denied a trade request was made, but didn't outright deny fultz being unhappy (at least according to LB). Given he has gone from starting to fighting for scrap minutes with McConnell it seems pretty likely he would prefer a fresh start. They don't really have that much time to wait around on him. If they want money for free agency they need to move him before next season. Furthermore, he is making 9 or 10 million next year which isn't exactly a great contract

[celticsclay]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

Someone smart will trade a first for him.  He may have been overdrafted by a couple of spots but he's still a top 10 pick in that draft. 

20 year old pointguards with a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio don't stay on the market for very long.

Yeah, and those kind of 20-year old point guards RARELY hit the market to begin with.

Seems like a pretty big red flag that PHI traded for Butler and now seem desperate to trade Fultz so fast. Also he's seeing a shoulder specialist after supposedly spending all of last year and the summer trying to heal and correct his issues. He may even miss more significant time right now.

There isn't any evidence that the Sixers are trying to trade Fultz and Fultz's agent denied reports that he wants to be traded.  Maybe that changes after the results from these  specialist visits are known.  However trading for Butler actually lessens the pressure on Fultz and the Sixers.  The Sixers have their 3 stars now so they have the option of waiting on Fultz to get right or at least "better" so that they could selectively showcase him and try to increase his trade value.

It's pretty clear that you are not objective about things related to the 76ers so your opinion doesn't hold a lot of sway with me personally on this matter. I am genuinely curious from people that are a bit more objective on them.

[LarBrd33]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

[celticsclay]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

Great idea old friend. And I'll be darned if I don't tell you I miss you

[Phantom255x]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

Wait seriously? You think PHI is well positioned to beat TOR?? 

I don't think Boston is either by the way, but neither is PHI.

[PAOBoston]

Delete

[CelticsElite]

Markelle Fultz will have his right shoulder examined through Wednesday in New York. A decision on Fultz's next steps won't be made until later in the week.

Fultz has lost the ability to carry out and follow through on long jump shots, and there's been internal and external debate about how much of this perplexing circumstance is physical vs. mental.

The Philadelphia 76ers still expect Fultz to return to the team and have a role in the rotation.

The 76ers have also stopped listening to trade offers for T.J. McConnell.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25386270/markelle-fultz-shoulder-exam-last-wednesday

[hwangjini_1]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

Wait seriously? You think PHI is well positioned to beat TOR?? 

I don't think Boston is either by the way, but neither is PHI.

Forget it. This is lb spouting about the sixers. Remember his ideas on okafur.? Logic will not apply here.

[nickagneta]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

Just looked at Philly's salary for next year. If they want to retain Butler they will need to sign him to a contract starting at $37 million per with a cap hold around $30 million. Given other cap holds, I don't see them having enough for another max contract. They look to be $8-10 million short.

[Phantom255x]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

Just looked at Philly's salary for next year. If they want to retain Butler they will need to sign him to a contract starting at $37 million per with a cap hold around $30 million. Given other cap holds, I don't see them having enough for another max contract. They look to be $8-10 million short.

The assumption is that they'll flip Fultz for expiring(s) and save about 9M next season too. But yeah my math says PHI still needs to find a way to clear like 10M-15M to have enough for a max.

[Moranis]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

Just looked at Philly's salary for next year. If they want to retain Butler they will need to sign him to a contract starting at $37 million per with a cap hold around $30 million. Given other cap holds, I don't see them having enough for another max contract. They look to be $8-10 million short.

The assumption is that they'll flip Fultz for expiring(s) and save about 9M next season too. But yeah my math says PHI still needs to find a way to clear like 10M-15M to have enough for a max.

They'd be at around 75 million in LB's trade assuming they bought out Hill and Korver and with the cap holds (including Butler).  So they could in theory offer the max to the smallest tier of max players (i.e. the 25% persons). 

[tazzmaniac]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

Just looked at Philly's salary for next year. If they want to retain Butler they will need to sign him to a contract starting at $37 million per with a cap hold around $30 million. Given other cap holds, I don't see them having enough for another max contract. They look to be $8-10 million short.

Jimmy Butler doesn't have 10 years and isn't eligible for supermax.  He will be 30% Max not 35% so it would be ~32.4M next season (~190M over 5 years).  If they renounce all their free agents and trade Fultz taking no salary back, they'd be close to having 30% Max is cap space. 

[tazzmaniac]

A win/win trade I've been talking about for a couple weeks would be for Philly to trade Fultz and the Chandler expiring to the Cavs for George Hill and Kyle Korver (both have 2 years left on their deals). 

- Cavs get to take a chance on Fultz and shed some long-term salary.

- Philly gets some lethal shooting to put around SImmons.  George Hill is shooting 53% from the field and 48% from three.  Korver is well known as an elite shooter.  You trot out a line-up of Hill, Redick, Butler, Simmons and Embiid - you have basically 4 great shooters around Simmons. 

As-is, I think Philly is well positioned to beat the Raptors in the ECF, but that trade probably locks them in as the favorites.

The only reason Philly should NOT do that trade is because they are in line for max cap space this Summer to add a 4th star to pair with their 3 current all-stars.   

Considering there are unrestricted free agents like Durant, Kawhi, Kemba, Klay, Kyrie and Middleton this Summer - pairing one of them with Embiid, Simmons and Butler could swing the era.

On the positive side, next season Hill's contract is only 1M guaranteed and Korver's is only ~3M guaranteed so the Sixers could walk away from both pretty easily without impacting their cap space if better free agents are available next offseason. 

On the negative side, the Sixers are already weak at the 4 and this trade proposal would make that worse.  My big question would be how good Hill's defense is.  Statistically Hill's defense has really dropped these past 2 seasons.  Is that because he's physically declining or is it because the teams he's played for?  The Sixers cannot afford to have Hill and Redick as their backcourt if Hill is no longer a good defender. 

Personally I'd hold off.  I think the Sixers have a good chance of adding better additions later via buyout or a better trade.  Heck Hill and/or Korver could end up getting bought out.