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Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?

Do you find Simmons funny and a don't miss read?
21 (70%)
Or not? Please post your reason(s) below
9 (30%)

Total Members Voted: 30

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Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2010, 01:43:23 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I enjoy reading his columns, but not as much as I enjoy his podcasts. I think he's really good at getting interesting guests and letting them have a free-wheeling forum to just talk about sports stuff.

I think because of the podcasts he's gotten a little lazier with the columns. But I like the podcasts more, so I'll take that trade off.

I do have a few problems with his writing, but not enough that I'll stop reading.

1. I dislike how definitively he states things. Then, when wrong, (which most people are, by the way, not just hated experts) he just chalks it up to being a self-acknowledged "idiot," but then goes on to make other definitive predictions. To be fair, this is the case with pretty much everyone (fans, talking heads, etc.), but he seems smart enough to know better.

2. I really hate that he "learns" lessons, then either a. ignores them because he thinks they no longer fit, then it turns out he should have listened to his lessons, and uses that as proof of his lessons, or b. decides that he doesn't need to actually follow through on lessons because he's a "fan." As an example of "a." see all of his gambling "rules." As an example of "b." see his "5-year post-championship no-complaints" rule. I actually like this rule, but it took him only a couple of years to figure out why it shouldn't apply to him, which, in his writing, is okay because he's just a fan.

3. Related to above, I think he's having a very hard time straddling the line of "fan" vs. "commentator." It's difficult, but I don't think he's doing the best job of it either; he's basically trying to have his cake and eat it too. He's always talking about not being crazy and overreacting, then goes crazy and overreacts, but, at the time, truly thinks he's not overreacting, then a few weeks later will acknowledge that he overreacts but that it's okay and forgiveable because he's a fan.

4. Not exclusive to him, but rather an epidemic in ALL sports writing, is how sports writers force reality into their own pre-written narrative structure, regardless of how well it fits. This in particular was my biggest problem with his Book of Basketball. Now, I really enjoyed the vast majority of it, but I really could have done without the whole "secret" premise, as well as his discussion of how he'll have to re-work some of it with Kobe's post-book success. This is how a lot of people's minds work, especially with regards to sports, but it still drives me crazy with him. Essentially, he adopts the premise that all championship teams must embrace the "secret." The flipside of this is that players and teams that don't win didn't win because they don't possess the secret. Unfortunately, the logic is entirely unprovable and cyclical, and instead of analyzing all championship teams vs. non-winners and then figuring out the common thread (if any), he starts with his conclusion, and then actively FINDS the supporting evidence in championship teams and FINDS the lack of evidence in non-winners. Lazy. Completely arbitrary. EVERY sports writer does it, and it's stupid. Because now, he's essentially locked into describing how Kobe, WHO HAS PLAYED EVERY SINGLE GAME OF HIS CAREER THE SAME EXACT WAY, didn't have the secret, then suddenly now does (maybe Pau brought it with him? Maybe that has something to do with it?). I hate it, and almost all writers do it, regardless of how things actually played out.

-aside-
The above, however, is true for almost all sportswriters, so while I hate it when Simmons does it, it's unfair to really hold it against him too much. However, I want to point out that this is one reason I think Hollinger (gasp!) is one of the better and more interesting writers, simply because he lets the games unfold, then tries to explain why things happened the way they did based on what actually happened, and not based on what he expected to happen going in.

For example, in the Celts/Lakers finals, there were basically 2 stories that were going to get told afterwards, regardless of what actually unfolded on the court. If the Lakers won, it was because Kobe's figured it out and he's a winner. If the Celts won, it was because they were a smothering, defensive team and because Kobe hadn't quite figured it out. Of course, the reality was that the Celtics played incredible defense, good enough to win, but their OFFENSE failed, and Kobe played THE EXACT WAY HE HAS HIS ENTIRE CAREER, namely shootig a LOT, regardless of how well he's shooting, and allowing his big men to quietly be ridiculously efficient. But guess what, the story was already written one of two ways, the writers were just waiting for the outcome to plug in the formula. Hollinger, to his credit, tries to avoid this; he's the only one I can think of that really does that on the national stage.



So, after seeing the above, why do I like Simmons? Sadly, he's still among the best sports  writers, despite the above flaws; that's how bad most are. Additionally, he has a few things that I still truly look forward to and enjoy:
-I always like his quit-hitting Friday Football previews. Usually quite amusing.
-I always like his NBA previews where he picks a movie to quote and applies those to predictions. Again, amusing, and this is one of those columns where everyone knows most of those predictons will be wrong, but it's fun.
-Trade Value Column
-NBA draft running diary.

All are pretty much more bankably entertaining than 99% of everything else out there about sports.
 

Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2010, 02:07:43 PM »

Offline nba is the worst

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To employ one of his schticks against him:

"Reading Simmons now is a lot like watching Jack Nicholson act during the last twenty years. There are occasional good moments, but for the most part you've seen them before, and every once in a while you wonder whether he's intentionally plagiarizing his younger, better self, or whether he's just incapable of expanding his repertoire. You also used to think he'd be a blast to hang out with, but now you think that it would be too much 'celebrity experience' and 'ego' as opposed to fun."

"Oh, and they both go to WAY too many games at Staples to merit a positive impression from Celtics fans."

GREAT response - Your talent is obvious!
 :D

Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2010, 05:48:13 PM »

Offline nba is the worst

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I was a big fan of Simmons when I first discovered his columns. Since then, and especially since his consistent "I pretend to be a Celtics fan but I despise everything about them" speech (and the way he said that no Celtic fan who had followed the team last season could have predicted that they would go this far in the playoffs... uh, yes, a lot of people believed they could do that), I see him more as an entertainer than a good reporter/analyst.

I still read his columns - NBA related only so I can't judge him on other sports - because I love his writing style and his humor (he is funny most of the time), and his podcasts are often interesting (depending on who he invites of course).

And his Book of Basketball is really awesome. Sure, it's biased but he explains his points of view with a lot of arguments, which are credible. It's really a great book if you love basketball and whether you like Simmons or not.


I was one who believed the Celtics were done after their 27-27 finish in a weak eastern conference, and I still believe if LeBron hadn't quit, the Celtics wouldn't have advanced.  But I certainly expected the Heat to be a breeze regardless - and I think Simmons did as well. He often mentions that he feels picking Boston-area teams jinxes them...

Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2010, 07:59:35 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I used to read him a lot, but I don't any more.

He's knowledgeable, but not as knowledgeable as he thinks he is.  The things that I like least about him are that 1) his writing has become stale / recycled; 2) he presents himself as a Boston "superfan", despite being very down on the team and most of its moves; and 3) he's got a huge ego and can't stand being disagreed with in "real life".

He's still occasionally funny, but I rarely find him insightful anymore.  If he was a good writer, I could overcome the fact that I find him to be personally distasteful.  Since he's lost much of his writer's voice, however, I don't bother anymore.
I think you listed the core problem. He is knowledgeable but not insightful. It is one thing to know a lot of things, it is another to analyze the data. He can process data and come up with funny jokes, but not with sound arguments.

Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2010, 12:14:27 AM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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He is a sell out.

He used his and his fathers fandom of the Celtics to get to the top then once he was there he spends all his time talking about the greatness of the Lakers and picking against us in he first round of the playoffs.

Sell out.

His article was titled something so absurd like "I know the celtics will lose to Miami".

I mean... How do you even title an article like that? **** Bill Simmons.


He's terrible.  I completely agree with what you said.  The guy is a complete bandwagon fan when it comes to the Boston teams.  When everything is going well he's all for the teams and when everything is going bad he jumps off the bandwagon making articles like "I know the Celtics will lose to Miami" and "Why the Red Sox are Boring". 
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Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2010, 02:06:52 AM »

Offline byennie

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Exaggerate much? "Used" his father's fandom? Geez god forbid a guy obsessed with Boston sports all of his life become a sportswriter and ascend to a national column with ESPN while writing about his personal experiences as a fan. What a jerk!

As for sell out, that's gotta be one of the most overused phrases out there. It's not like he sold his daughter into slavery. He became successful, wrote books, and got a national column. Should he have refused success and never left Boston just to make us happy?

So he doesn't write every column as a Boston homer with blind faith in Boston sports, that makes him a bandwagon fan? As far as I can tell he's a [dang] loyal fan. It happens to be his JOB to take a broader perspective once in a while. I kinda doubt he ever stopped rooting for the Celtics. It doesn't make you a bandwagon fan just because you can find flaws in your home team, especially if, as mentioned, that's his job.

Hey, if you don't like all of the pop culture references, or miss the days when he was a Boston ONLY columnist, that's understandable. But let me ask you this, would you rather have a New York guy in his place?

Or are we just playing the fun game where we hate everything that becomes too popular and/or successful?

He is a sell out.

He used his and his fathers fandom of the Celtics to get to the top then once he was there he spends all his time talking about the greatness of the Lakers and picking against us in he first round of the playoffs.

Sell out.

His article was titled something so absurd like "I know the celtics will lose to Miami".

I mean... How do you even title an article like that? **** Bill Simmons.


He's terrible.  I completely agree with what you said.  The guy is a complete bandwagon fan when it comes to the Boston teams.  When everything is going well he's all for the teams and when everything is going bad he jumps off the bandwagon making articles like "I know the Celtics will lose to Miami" and "Why the Red Sox are Boring". 

Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2010, 07:16:26 AM »

Offline soap07

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Anytime he writes a diary or mailbag, it is pretty much a must read. His trade value columns are always great too. Why would anyone read him for hard-hitting analysis though? He's an entertainer. His problem now is that he rose because he was able to relate to the college crowd with his fandom and what not. Now, he's older, richer, has a kid (kids?)....he has to find a new way to stay fresh and at times struggles with that. He got big because of his ability to relate to normal fans in a way that elite sportswriters couldn't. Now, he can't really play that card all that often when he gets invited to all the backstage stuff.

Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2010, 08:52:29 AM »

Offline aporel#18

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I think he's entertaining, and funny (not as funny as he thinks, just like everybody else), and I don't know if you can ask for more to a sportswriter. As long as sports are a business, they still are just a game, and the main purpose is entertain people.

I'd like to listen to him broadcasting a Celtics game, just a game. Not to take Tommy and Mike's role, I mean one of those games when you get sick of hearing JVG or Reggie Miller. He can't be worse than Tanguay or Donny Marshall, and I guess he's funnier than all of them.

My knowledge of the game (bit of basketball, nothing about hockey, baseball or american football) is so weak that I wouldn't judge his abilities out of entertainment. Again, I think the media "experts", even if they have real knowledge (former coaches and players), play an entertaining role more than a pedagogical one. Simmons is a good example.

Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2010, 11:25:10 AM »

Offline action781

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I used to read him a lot, but I don't any more.

He's knowledgeable, but not as knowledgeable as he thinks he is.  The things that I like least about him are that 1) his writing has become stale / recycled; 2) he presents himself as a Boston "superfan", despite being very down on the team and most of its moves; and 3) he's got a huge ego and can't stand being disagreed with in "real life".

He's still occasionally funny, but I rarely find him insightful anymore.  If he was a good writer, I could overcome the fact that I find him to be personally distasteful.  Since he's lost much of his writer's voice, however, I don't bother anymore.

IMO, this is an example of something a lot of bloggers are, which is being TOO SERIOUS, and denying themselves light-hearted pleasures which are often readily available just by blowing off/not making judgements about (in this case, Simmons') ego, writing ability, etc.

I hope you read the link anyway - this week's column was pretty darned funny, and insightful as well IMO

When I read Roy's post, I felt it described my feelings dead on.  I read every "column" of his when I was in college 2002-06.  I had a ridiculous amount of free time, they were great for laughs, I was at an age when my brain was starting to become more seriously analytical of everything so the reads were getting me to utilize that part of my brain.

Also, he appealed to the "everyday" kinda guy.  Talked about sharing sports with his dad, metaphorical references that we could relate to from a non-celebrity perspective (like how we felt watching some WWF moment on tv several years ago), talking about his wife and how he explains sports to girls, and his fantasy sports drafts columns (my favorites).

Now, as Roy pointed out, his jokes do seem recycled.  I still smile at them, but it's not the same kind of "OMG, wow! that's so true!" and laugh out loud that I used to get.  And his columns are so long with the laughs spread out more (to me), I usually only read articles my friends tell me are "must reads" or certain snippets they send me.  Also, I'm not as into pop culture as I was, so I plainly don't get as many of the jokes now as I did.

To "nba is the worst" 's comment, you say that you need to not think so much about Simmons' ego, writing ability, etc.  I guess to answer that, you need to answer the question: "Is Simmons a columnist/journalist or a blogger?"  If one could accept him as a blogger, then sure, people wouldn't think too much about those things.  He has personally got upset when other media personalities have called him a blogger though, so he definitely considers himself a columnist/journalist.  So, shouldn't he uphold himself to the standards of that discipline?
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Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2010, 11:34:25 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Simmons' football columns have become very plodding and repetitive to me lately (seriously, how much money is he losing with this idiotic "system" that seems to change radically every year?), but I still love most everything he writes about basketball.  The key is to remember that like every journalist, his job is to get attention, not to be accurate or even-handed.  Take everything he says with a few grains of salt and the columns become a lot less irritating.

If Simmons can tone down the "I'm a middle-aged guy trying to raise small children, so now everything makes me cranky and nothing is as good as it used to be!" vibe, I think his columns would improve again.  But despite a noticeable drop in quality and originality, he's still my favorite sports writer out there, and one of the few with his own distinct voice.

Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2010, 11:39:57 AM »

Offline Assassin70

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He is a sell out.

He used his and his fathers fandom of the Celtics to get to the top then once he was there he spends all his time talking about the greatness of the Lakers and picking against us in he first round of the playoffs.

Sell out.

His article was titled something so absurd like "I know the celtics will lose to Miami".

I mean... How do you even title an article like that? **** Bill Simmons.


He's terrible.  I completely agree with what you said.  The guy is a complete bandwagon fan when it comes to the Boston teams.  When everything is going well he's all for the teams and when everything is going bad he jumps off the bandwagon making articles like "I know the Celtics will lose to Miami" and "Why the Red Sox are Boring". 

/co sign

He sold out for mass appeal.  He will either be all over Miami or against them depending on the court of public opinion come playoff time.  Whatever will generate the most traffic to his articles.
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Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2010, 12:58:01 PM »

Offline CDawg834

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I used to be a huge fan of his work, and I did enjoy The Book of Basketball, but IMO, he's gotten to be a bit much.  He's starting to come off as smug and self-important.  A lot of his articles are basically him stating an opinion or some obscure pop culture reference, followed by something like "Aren't I right?"  "Doesn't this make sense?" "How could you possibly disagree?"  Repeat for 10 more pages.

For example, his article where he recreates the rules of fantasy football like he is some kind of genius and everyone else is stupid.  I don't look forward to his articles as much because he's really getting quite full of himself.

Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2010, 03:33:21 PM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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He is a sell out.

He used his and his fathers fandom of the Celtics to get to the top then once he was there he spends all his time talking about the greatness of the Lakers and picking against us in he first round of the playoffs.

Sell out.

His article was titled something so absurd like "I know the celtics will lose to Miami".

I mean... How do you even title an article like that? **** Bill Simmons.


Don't forget that he has never endorsed Doc Rivers as the head coach of the C's. Never! Let that resonate for a while.

But my hatred for Billy boy is deeper rooted for the following reason:

He likes to play on both sides of the fence....

When he's right....he's all about "I TOLD YOU SO!"

When he's wrong....he hardly ever admits to it and creates excuses, or just expects you to give him a freebie and move on.

His references to pop culture do nothing for me as I find anyone can make a solid analogy these days.

Lastly, there are no real Celtics fans living in L.A.
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Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2010, 03:52:01 PM »

Offline jarufu

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His book does quite a heavy rotation beside my toilet (I have absolutely no clue if that's an endorsement or not :o )
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Re: Bill Simmons - Funny / Knowledgeable or Not Funny / Other?
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2010, 04:20:16 PM »

Offline Eja117

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To me he's like a really good actor/musician who hasn't made a great movie in a while. 

It's like when an actor makes a bunch of phenomenal movies, then a bunch of bad ones, then not much for a couple years.

Still if someone walks up and is like "Yo. Paul McCartney just came out with a phenomenal album". You run down to the store to buy it, even though on the way you're like "I didn't know he was still making good music."

Yeah, he's on a losing streak, but his hey day was awesome.

There's still some stuff he does that's pretty good, like when his father drafts Lebron #1 overall and says "I like my team"

or when they watch the draft over the phone and his father says something like "David Stern looks like he just gagged on a buzzard trying to pronounce that adrekevicus"

And this is also my point. Ok fine. So maybe you don't like him so much these days. So who would you rather read? Ron Borges? Exactly.