These Dirk v Bird comparisons are getting embarrassing

[gar]

Not saying better; but if you are talking about sharp shooting big men then you have to have Bird and Dirk in the top 5, so is only natural that there would be comparisons. Dirk has shot over 90% FT 3 times in his career so far(.877 career avg.), Bird did it 5 times (.886 career avg.). There is a comparison. Given that Dirk still is not done there are not many big men you can make that kind of meaningful comparison with.

Dirk Shot 0.978 FT in the finals (.942 for the playoffs), that is amazing. Of course Ray Allen is better than both of these guys in FT's; but that is another story.

[Kane3387]

  Larry Bird in 1986 was at the height of his powers and at that point was in my mind the greatest basketball player who ever lived.  He could beat you in more ways then Jordan or anyone else could.  His all out all the time style of play resulted in his body breaking down prematurely and cost him the longevity to rank higher then Jordan when comparing their careers but no player in my eyes was ever better then the mid 80's Larry Bird.  Those who aren't old enough to have  seen him then really missed a one of a kind basketball genius.

When Bird himself called a guy "God in basketball shoes" I think it puts to rest that debate. Bird is far better then Dirk. It's sad that one and I mean one good & complete playoff run can all of a sudden make people feel comparisons are justified.

Bird > Dirk
Jordan > Bird

Yes I am a Celtics fan, but I am putting my bias aside because Jordan was the ultimate finisher in the modern era. 6-6 in the finals?! Only Russell's teams were better.

[Kane3387]

  To me what separates Bird from all of his contemporaries in any greatest of all-time conversation was his through the roof BBIQ. 

  You don't get to the NBA unless you are a pretty amazing athlete.  With that said Larry Bird couldn't run fast or jump high but he could run forever.  His game was completely below the rim yet he was still in his prime as dominant as anyone who has ever played and did it in every meaningful facet of the game.

 He rebounded at a very high level against guys who were bigger, stronger and could jump through the roof because he mastered boxing out.  He passed as well as any PG who's ever played and did so with a Globe-Trotter-esque flair and unparalleled court vision.

  He began his career just as the 3pt shot was introduced into the NBA and while his percentage from there doesn't compare to some who have played since him he was taking those shots with guys draped all over him.  Most of his contemporaries weren't being guarded as closely from deep as Bird was.

  In the clutch he didn't just beat you with a jump shot although he did that plenty.  He'd also beat you in the low post, or with an amazing no look pass, a rebound amongst the trees or an impossible defensive play.

  I just think, out of necessity, Larry Bird had to think the game better then anyone else has before him or since.  He couldn't rely on his athletic ability because the players he played against were better athletes then he was.  He beat you with his basketball mind.  If there is such a thing as a basketball genius it was Larry Bird.

Larry Bird was a 6'10" John Stockton 

[BballTim]

  To me what separates Bird from all of his contemporaries in any greatest of all-time conversation was his through the roof BBIQ. 

  You don't get to the NBA unless you are a pretty amazing athlete.  With that said Larry Bird couldn't run fast or jump high but he could run forever.  His game was completely below the rim yet he was still in his prime as dominant as anyone who has ever played and did it in every meaningful facet of the game.

 He rebounded at a very high level against guys who were bigger, stronger and could jump through the roof because he mastered boxing out.  He passed as well as any PG who's ever played and did so with a Globe-Trotter-esque flair and unparalleled court vision.

  He began his career just as the 3pt shot was introduced into the NBA and while his percentage from there doesn't compare to some who have played since him he was taking those shots with guys draped all over him.  Most of his contemporaries weren't being guarded as closely from deep as Bird was.

  In the clutch he didn't just beat you with a jump shot although he did that plenty.  He'd also beat you in the low post, or with an amazing no look pass, a rebound amongst the trees or an impossible defensive play.

  I just think, out of necessity, Larry Bird had to think the game better then anyone else has before him or since.  He couldn't rely on his athletic ability because the players he played against were better athletes then he was.  He beat you with his basketball mind.  If there is such a thing as a basketball genius it was Larry Bird.

Larry Bird was a 6'10" John Stockton 

  You're vastly overrating Stockton.

[BballTim]

  Larry Bird in 1986 was at the height of his powers and at that point was in my mind the greatest basketball player who ever lived.  He could beat you in more ways then Jordan or anyone else could.  His all out all the time style of play resulted in his body breaking down prematurely and cost him the longevity to rank higher then Jordan when comparing their careers but no player in my eyes was ever better then the mid 80's Larry Bird.  Those who aren't old enough to have  seen him then really missed a one of a kind basketball genius.

When Bird himself called a guy "God in basketball shoes" I think it puts to rest that debate. Bird is far better then Dirk. It's sad that one and I mean one good & complete playoff run can all of a sudden make people feel comparisons are justified.

Bird > Dirk
Jordan > Bird

Yes I am a Celtics fan, but I am putting my bias aside because Jordan was the ultimate finisher in the modern era. 6-6 in the finals?! Only Russell's teams were better.

  I don't think Jordan went up against any teams that would have beaten the Celts from the mid 80s.

[Redz]

  To me what separates Bird from all of his contemporaries in any greatest of all-time conversation was his through the roof BBIQ. 

  You don't get to the NBA unless you are a pretty amazing athlete.  With that said Larry Bird couldn't run fast or jump high but he could run forever.  His game was completely below the rim yet he was still in his prime as dominant as anyone who has ever played and did it in every meaningful facet of the game.

 He rebounded at a very high level against guys who were bigger, stronger and could jump through the roof because he mastered boxing out.  He passed as well as any PG who's ever played and did so with a Globe-Trotter-esque flair and unparalleled court vision.

  He began his career just as the 3pt shot was introduced into the NBA and while his percentage from there doesn't compare to some who have played since him he was taking those shots with guys draped all over him.  Most of his contemporaries weren't being guarded as closely from deep as Bird was.

  In the clutch he didn't just beat you with a jump shot although he did that plenty.  He'd also beat you in the low post, or with an amazing no look pass, a rebound amongst the trees or an impossible defensive play.

  I just think, out of necessity, Larry Bird had to think the game better then anyone else has before him or since.  He couldn't rely on his athletic ability because the players he played against were better athletes then he was.  He beat you with his basketball mind.  If there is such a thing as a basketball genius it was Larry Bird.

Now you've gone and made me cry 

Very fitting description of Larry.  Few things get me as sentimental as reminiscing about Larry. 

[Kane3387]

  To me what separates Bird from all of his contemporaries in any greatest of all-time conversation was his through the roof BBIQ. 

  You don't get to the NBA unless you are a pretty amazing athlete.  With that said Larry Bird couldn't run fast or jump high but he could run forever.  His game was completely below the rim yet he was still in his prime as dominant as anyone who has ever played and did it in every meaningful facet of the game.

 He rebounded at a very high level against guys who were bigger, stronger and could jump through the roof because he mastered boxing out.  He passed as well as any PG who's ever played and did so with a Globe-Trotter-esque flair and unparalleled court vision.

  He began his career just as the 3pt shot was introduced into the NBA and while his percentage from there doesn't compare to some who have played since him he was taking those shots with guys draped all over him.  Most of his contemporaries weren't being guarded as closely from deep as Bird was.

  In the clutch he didn't just beat you with a jump shot although he did that plenty.  He'd also beat you in the low post, or with an amazing no look pass, a rebound amongst the trees or an impossible defensive play.

  I just think, out of necessity, Larry Bird had to think the game better then anyone else has before him or since.  He couldn't rely on his athletic ability because the players he played against were better athletes then he was.  He beat you with his basketball mind.  If there is such a thing as a basketball genius it was Larry Bird.

Larry Bird was a 6'10" John Stockton 

  You're vastly overrating Stockton.

What? He was the most unathletic player on the court almost all the time... Bird's size helped him out incredibly. Stockton's assist record is a record that will likely never be touched and he was a master at getting steals. I believe if you gave Stockton 8 more inches he could have been almost as good as Bird. That guy was a computer much like Bird.

[Kane3387]

  Larry Bird in 1986 was at the height of his powers and at that point was in my mind the greatest basketball player who ever lived.  He could beat you in more ways then Jordan or anyone else could.  His all out all the time style of play resulted in his body breaking down prematurely and cost him the longevity to rank higher then Jordan when comparing their careers but no player in my eyes was ever better then the mid 80's Larry Bird.  Those who aren't old enough to have  seen him then really missed a one of a kind basketball genius.

Yeah but the question is would his team have? Those Pistons were good too that he beat in 91. I mean Jordan gave the 86 Celtics a fight in that first round. That was only like his second year. I know they got swept but the Celtics didn't run over the Bulls and Jordan was a greater all around team player in the early 90s.

Cool to think about because the match-ups would have been epic and likely all those games are decided by a few plays and calls. Two close to call honestly.

When Bird himself called a guy "God in basketball shoes" I think it puts to rest that debate. Bird is far better then Dirk. It's sad that one and I mean one good & complete playoff run can all of a sudden make people feel comparisons are justified.

Bird > Dirk
Jordan > Bird

Yes I am a Celtics fan, but I am putting my bias aside because Jordan was the ultimate finisher in the modern era. 6-6 in the finals?! Only Russell's teams were better.

  I don't think Jordan went up against any teams that would have beaten the Celts from the mid 80s.

[BballTim]

  To me what separates Bird from all of his contemporaries in any greatest of all-time conversation was his through the roof BBIQ. 

  You don't get to the NBA unless you are a pretty amazing athlete.  With that said Larry Bird couldn't run fast or jump high but he could run forever.  His game was completely below the rim yet he was still in his prime as dominant as anyone who has ever played and did it in every meaningful facet of the game.

 He rebounded at a very high level against guys who were bigger, stronger and could jump through the roof because he mastered boxing out.  He passed as well as any PG who's ever played and did so with a Globe-Trotter-esque flair and unparalleled court vision.

  He began his career just as the 3pt shot was introduced into the NBA and while his percentage from there doesn't compare to some who have played since him he was taking those shots with guys draped all over him.  Most of his contemporaries weren't being guarded as closely from deep as Bird was.

  In the clutch he didn't just beat you with a jump shot although he did that plenty.  He'd also beat you in the low post, or with an amazing no look pass, a rebound amongst the trees or an impossible defensive play.

  I just think, out of necessity, Larry Bird had to think the game better then anyone else has before him or since.  He couldn't rely on his athletic ability because the players he played against were better athletes then he was.  He beat you with his basketball mind.  If there is such a thing as a basketball genius it was Larry Bird.

Larry Bird was a 6'10" John Stockton 

  You're vastly overrating Stockton.

What? He was the most unathletic player on the court almost all the time... Bird's size helped him out incredibly. Stockton's assist record is a record that will likely never be touched and he was a master at getting steals. I believe if you gave Stockton 8 more inches he could have been almost as good as Bird. That guy was a computer much like Bird.

  Bird had a lot more going for him than size. Grow Stockton and you'd probably have Bird's passing and defense, not his scoring or rebounding. So I'll go with a poor man's Larry Bird.

[CelticsFanNC]

 Larry Bird in 1986 was at the height of his powers and at that point was in my mind the greatest basketball player who ever lived.  He could beat you in more ways then Jordan or anyone else could.  His all out all the time style of play resulted in his body breaking down prematurely and cost him the longevity to rank higher then Jordan when comparing their careers but no player in my eyes was ever better then the mid 80's Larry Bird.  Those who aren't old enough to have  seen him then really missed a one of a kind basketball genius.

When Bird himself called a guy "God in basketball shoes" I think it puts to rest that debate. Bird is far better then Dirk. It's sad that one and I mean one good & complete playoff run can all of a sudden make people feel comparisons are justified.

Bird > Dirk
Jordan > Bird

Yes I am a Celtics fan, but I am putting my bias aside because Jordan was the ultimate finisher in the modern era. 6-6 in the finals?! Only Russell's teams were better.

  I don't think Jordan went up against any teams that would have beaten the Celts from the mid 80s.

  The teams of the 80's were stacked much like the top teams today.  Chicago was great during the Jordan era but that era was watered down due to a tremendous amount of expansion.  Jordan's Bulls don't win 6 titles during the 80's, maybe 1 or 2....very possibly 0.

  Just look at the rosters.  Who on the 90's Bull's would start in Boston during the 80's?  No one other then Jordan.  Pippen the 2nd best player on those teams isn't going to start in Boston over Larry Bird.  Now reverse it.  McHale starts in Chicago.  Parish starts in Chicago.  Dennis Johnson/Tiny Archibald starts in Chicago. Bird obviously starts in Chicago.  The benches weren't even close asthe Celtics(and Lakers) of the 80's had former All-Stars and starters coming off of their benches.  At only one position would the Chicago Bull's of the 90's have an advantage over thee 80's Celtics or Lakers.

    If Bird's Celtics or Magic's Lakers had played a decade later then they did instead of head to head against each other against the inferior competition of the 90's I am quite sure they would have had as much success as the 90's Bull's did.  Those 80's teams were simply and IMO pretty obviously better then the 90's Bulls were.

  I'm not saying Bird was better then Jordan because I have begrudgingly come to the conclusion that Jordan is the greatest of All-Time but the margin between Bird in his prime, Magic in his prime and Jordan in his prime is a whole lot closer then most want to admit mostly because Jordan's greatness has been sold down our throats by the media for twenty years while Bird and Magic were relegated to being an after thought by the very same media.  Jordan to me was better because his prime years lasted longer, not because he was better in his prime then Bird or Magic were.  Bird in his prime could beat you in more way then Jordan could as could Magic.  Jordan was more of a scorer then Magic.  Bird played with other great scorers while Jordan really didn't so it is kind of hard to really say if Jordan was a better scorer then Bird.  Bird could have easily put up 30ppg had he wanted or his team needed him to do so. Jordan was better defender, yes.  Magic and Bird did all of the other less glamorous things that help you win basketball games like passing and rebounding better then Jordan did.

  Jordan being the best because he has more NBA titles then Bird or Magic is a very weak and lazy argument.  Like I said....compare the rosters and compare the competition.  Winning a title in the 80's was one heck of a lot more difficult then winning one in the 90's.
  

[Moranis]

  To me what separates Bird from all of his contemporaries in any greatest of all-time conversation was his through the roof BBIQ. 

  You don't get to the NBA unless you are a pretty amazing athlete.  With that said Larry Bird couldn't run fast or jump high but he could run forever.  His game was completely below the rim yet he was still in his prime as dominant as anyone who has ever played and did it in every meaningful facet of the game.

 He rebounded at a very high level against guys who were bigger, stronger and could jump through the roof because he mastered boxing out.  He passed as well as any PG who's ever played and did so with a Globe-Trotter-esque flair and unparalleled court vision.

  He began his career just as the 3pt shot was introduced into the NBA and while his percentage from there doesn't compare to some who have played since him he was taking those shots with guys draped all over him.  Most of his contemporaries weren't being guarded as closely from deep as Bird was.

  In the clutch he didn't just beat you with a jump shot although he did that plenty.  He'd also beat you in the low post, or with an amazing no look pass, a rebound amongst the trees or an impossible defensive play.

  I just think, out of necessity, Larry Bird had to think the game better then anyone else has before him or since.  He couldn't rely on his athletic ability because the players he played against were better athletes then he was.  He beat you with his basketball mind.  If there is such a thing as a basketball genius it was Larry Bird.

Larry Bird was a 6'10" John Stockton 

  You're vastly overrating Stockton.

What? He was the most unathletic player on the court almost all the time... Bird's size helped him out incredibly. Stockton's assist record is a record that will likely never be touched and he was a master at getting steals. I believe if you gave Stockton 8 more inches he could have been almost as good as Bird. That guy was a computer much like Bird.

  Bird had a lot more going for him than size. Grow Stockton and you'd probably have Bird's passing and defense, not his scoring or rebounding. So I'll go with a poor man's Larry Bird.

Probably not the rebounding, but if Stockton was 6'10" he would have been an insane scorer.

[drza44]

I disagree that the comparisons are embarrassing.  I think Bird was better, but Dirk is good enough that it warrants discussion without sneering.  By my estimation Dirk is probably the 3rd or 4th best player of his generation (those drafted in the mid-late 90s), and he's on the short list of MVP/champions in league history.  It's not embarrassing to compare him to anyone that's played. 

[BballTim]

  To me what separates Bird from all of his contemporaries in any greatest of all-time conversation was his through the roof BBIQ. 

  You don't get to the NBA unless you are a pretty amazing athlete.  With that said Larry Bird couldn't run fast or jump high but he could run forever.  His game was completely below the rim yet he was still in his prime as dominant as anyone who has ever played and did it in every meaningful facet of the game.

 He rebounded at a very high level against guys who were bigger, stronger and could jump through the roof because he mastered boxing out.  He passed as well as any PG who's ever played and did so with a Globe-Trotter-esque flair and unparalleled court vision.

  He began his career just as the 3pt shot was introduced into the NBA and while his percentage from there doesn't compare to some who have played since him he was taking those shots with guys draped all over him.  Most of his contemporaries weren't being guarded as closely from deep as Bird was.

  In the clutch he didn't just beat you with a jump shot although he did that plenty.  He'd also beat you in the low post, or with an amazing no look pass, a rebound amongst the trees or an impossible defensive play.

  I just think, out of necessity, Larry Bird had to think the game better then anyone else has before him or since.  He couldn't rely on his athletic ability because the players he played against were better athletes then he was.  He beat you with his basketball mind.  If there is such a thing as a basketball genius it was Larry Bird.

Larry Bird was a 6'10" John Stockton 

  You're vastly overrating Stockton.

What? He was the most unathletic player on the court almost all the time... Bird's size helped him out incredibly. Stockton's assist record is a record that will likely never be touched and he was a master at getting steals. I believe if you gave Stockton 8 more inches he could have been almost as good as Bird. That guy was a computer much like Bird.

  Bird had a lot more going for him than size. Grow Stockton and you'd probably have Bird's passing and defense, not his scoring or rebounding. So I'll go with a poor man's Larry Bird.

Probably not the rebounding, but if Stockton was 6'10" he would have been an insane scorer.

  If Bird was 6'1 he'd still have been an insane scorer.

[BballTim]

I disagree that the comparisons are embarrassing.  I think Bird was better, but Dirk is good enough that it warrants discussion without sneering.  By my estimation Dirk is probably the 3rd or 4th best player of his generation (those drafted in the mid-late 90s), and he's on the short list of MVP/champions in league history.  It's not embarrassing to compare him to anyone that's played. 

  Comparing the (arguably) 3rd or 4th best player that entered the league in a 6-7 year period with someone who's always in the conversation for best player ever is a fairly bad comparison.

[Fafnir]

I disagree that the comparisons are embarrassing.  I think Bird was better, but Dirk is good enough that it warrants discussion without sneering.  By my estimation Dirk is probably the 3rd or 4th best player of his generation (those drafted in the mid-late 90s), and he's on the short list of MVP/champions in league history.  It's not embarrassing to compare him to anyone that's played. 

  Comparing the (arguably) 3rd or 4th best player that entered the league in a 6-7 year period with someone who's always in the conversation for best player ever is a fairly bad comparison.

If he's in the conversation as best in a given era, its only natural that he be compared to the best of all time.

Though I don't think Dirk is compared to Bird if they both aren't tall white guys.