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Dumars in the draft
« on: April 08, 2009, 02:20:54 PM »

Offline Jeff

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I was just thinking about this today, for all the hype that Dumars got a year ago for being a great GM (he's not bad, don't get me wrong) I don't think his drafting has been all that stellar - even if you give him a mulligan on the Darko pick

Stuckey at 15 hasn't done as well as people thought
Maxiell (late first round) has already been passed by Big Baby (2nd rouner)
Amir Johnson was supposed to be a 2nd round steal, but not so much

who has he drafted that was a home run?
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Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 02:34:38 PM »

Offline Shots

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I'd say Prince has done pretty good for a 23rd in the first round, but that would also be "it". He also drafted Memo Okur, guess that counts for something as well..

But otherwise.. Yeah, he hasn't got a "Midas Touch" or anything, DA has definitely done better with his picks (and trades for that matter).. 

Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 03:00:49 PM »

Offline DinoRadjaLives

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Since taking over in 2000 here are Dumars choices.

[edit] Recent NBA Draft selections
2008: D. J. White (Round 1, pick 29); Deron Washington (Round 2, pick 59)
Note: The rights to White were traded to the Seattle SuperSonics in exchange for the rights to Seattle's draft picks Walter Sharpe (round 2, pick 32) and Trent Plaisted (round 2, pick 46)
2007: Rodney Stuckey (Round 1, pick 15); Arron Afflalo (Round 1, pick 27); Sammy Mejia (Round 2, pick 57)
2006: Will Blalock (Round 2, pick 60)
2005: Jason Maxiell (Round 1, pick 26); Amir Johnson (Round 2, pick 56); Alex Acker (Round 2, pick 60)
2004: Rickey Paulding (Round 2, pick 54)
2003: Darko Miličić (Round 1, pick 2); Carlos Delfino (Round 1, pick 25); Andreas Glyniadakis (Round 2, pick 58)
2002: Tayshaun Prince (Round 1, pick 23)
2001: Rodney White (Round 1, pick 9); Mehmet Okur (Round 2, pick 38)
2000: Mateen Cleaves (Round 1, pick 14); Brian Cardinal (Round 2, pick 44)

Blue = Good pick/value in the draft
Red = Horrible pick

I would say that he can find value in the lower rounds but when he misses, he misses big. Cleaves, Rodney White,and Darko were horrible considering the below players he could have had instead :

Bosh/Wade/Melo in '03 , Joe Johnson, Tony Parker, Richard Jefferson in '01 and Turkoglu, DeShawn Stevenson, Michael Redd in '00
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Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 03:25:51 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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I was just thinking about this today, for all the hype that Dumars got a year ago for being a great GM (he's not bad, don't get me wrong) I don't think his drafting has been all that stellar - even if you give him a mulligan on the Darko pick

Stuckey at 15 hasn't done as well as people thought
Maxiell (late first round) has already been passed by Big Baby (2nd rouner)
Amir Johnson was supposed to be a 2nd round steal, but not so much

who has he drafted that was a home run?

Stuckey got thrown into the starting lineup after the Billups trade. Granted, that was the whole point of the trade, but I think that's a lot of pressure to put on a 2nd year player. I think people unfairly believe he should have immediately been able to step into Billups' shoes.

I don't agree Maxiell has been passed by Davis. Maxiell's numbers have been seriously (and unfairly, IMO) curtailed by Curry this season; he's averaging nearly 4 full minutes less this year. Maxiell is a much better rebounder and shot blocker than Davis, Davis is a better shooter and passer.

Johnson is still only 21 years old. When he's gotten minutes, he's been able to produce. The question is probably not his ability, but his BBIQ.

Afflalo's a nice player. Maybe not starting caliber, but certainly the first guard off the bench. Good defender, can shoot the three, can play either guard spot.
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Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 04:01:52 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Wow. I didn't realize his drafting record was so horrid. The good picks to me seem to be of the blind squirrel finding a nut variety.

His best pick is Tayshaun, but that's nothing like when DA specifically targeted and traded for Rondo late in the draft.

I don't think it's like picking Delonte where he got him or Powe

Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 04:37:45 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I'd say Prince has done pretty good for a 23rd in the first round, but that would also be "it".

  Ironically that pick was said to have affected his worst pick, Darko. Lots of people said that the Pistons being high on Prince was a factor in passing up Wade and Carmelo.

Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2009, 09:58:12 AM »

Offline Jeff

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I'd say Prince has done pretty good for a 23rd in the first round, but that would also be "it".

  Ironically that pick was said to have affected his worst pick, Darko. Lots of people said that the Pistons being high on Prince was a factor in passing up Wade and Carmelo.

exactly why the rule is always to go with talent over need

I suppose at the time he felt the talent level was equal and so he defaulted to need (and the big over small rule) but clearly he (along with Chad Ford) was wrong
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Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2009, 10:23:01 AM »

Offline footey

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Besides the Darko disaster, I feel he has done pretty well. I think Stuckey was a very good pick at that spot.

Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2009, 10:41:47 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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For where he's drafted, a lot of his picks have been good.  His only real misses, ironically, were in the first half of the first round.

Amir Johnson was the 56th player selected in his draft, and is a legit NBA player (if not a superstar).  Do we criticize Danny for missing on Orien Greene?  In terms of Stuckey, which was a better selection:  him at #15, or Gerald Green at #18 / Marcus Banks at #13?  I think any time you land a solid player outside of the lottery, you're doing well. 

Relative to draft position, Stuckey, Maxiell, Delfino, Okur, Cardinal, Johnson, and Prince have all been good selections.  Yes, some players have been better, but most of the players drafted in similar positions have not turned out as well. 

I think Dumars has been an above-average drafter, with the one huge, huge Darko black mark on his resume' (Darko fooled a lot of people).  He hasn't been as good as Danny, but he's probably in the top-tier of GMs in the league in terms of finding late-round talent.

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Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2009, 11:16:48 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Anytime you get a rotation player or better past pick 15 in the draft, you picked a winner. In that regard, he's 8-14. Thats way way way better than average.


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Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2009, 11:20:42 AM »

Offline crownsy

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Quote
For where he's drafted, a lot of his picks have been good.  His only real misses, ironically, were in the first half of the first round.

also known as the most important, franchise changing picks in the draft.

I agree he picks well later, BUT he has had HAA-UUUGGE misses with his most important picks. missing melo, wade or bosh and then missing parker, JJ or jefferson in the next draft HAS to be held against him to some degree.

imagine if the pistons were:

1.Billups or TP (in this dream, no need for trade because of the next guys)
2.Wade
3. jefferson/melo or johnson
4. sheed
5. something they got for rip or billups if they traded him to start parker?

with prince as their defensive stopper of the bench at 4 positions?

scary stuff.
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Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2009, 11:30:23 AM »

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No matter what there can be no Mulligan with the Darco pick, the guy passed on Melo, Wade, Bosh and more, for a sub par player, it was an obvious choice and he blew it. To me that completely negates all talk of Dumars as any type of draft expert.

Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2009, 11:39:06 AM »

Offline Cman

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No matter what there can be no Mulligan with the Darco pick, the guy passed on Melo, Wade, Bosh and more, for a sub par player, it was an obvious choice and he blew it. To me that completely negates all talk of Dumars as any type of draft expert.

Likewise there should be no mulligans with the Gerald Green pick.  Danny missed picking Nate Robinson, David Lee, Jason Maxiell, Jarrett Jack, Francisco Garcia, CJ Miles, Monta Ellis, Louis Williams, Amir Johnson....

I realize it is not of the same magnitude (whiffing on a #2 pick is worse than on a #18 pick), but there are similarities: lots of people were high on Darko, likewise lots of people were high on Green.  The point is that it is easy to make a mistake when the player involved is young and untested.
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Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2009, 11:45:18 AM »

Offline crownsy

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No matter what there can be no Mulligan with the Darco pick, the guy passed on Melo, Wade, Bosh and more, for a sub par player, it was an obvious choice and he blew it. To me that completely negates all talk of Dumars as any type of draft expert.

Likewise there should be no mulligans with the Gerald Green pick.  Danny missed picking Nate Robinson, David Lee, Jason Maxiell, Jarrett Jack, Francisco Garcia, CJ Miles, Monta Ellis, Louis Williams, Amir Johnson....

I realize it is not of the same magnitude (whiffing on a #2 pick is worse than on a #18 pick), but there are similarities: lots of people were high on Darko, likewise lots of people were high on Green.  The point is that it is easy to make a mistake when the player involved is young and untested.

yea, but the difference between the 18 pick and the 2 is so vast it invalidates the analogy.

outside of ellis, those guys are nice rotation players, with lou mabey moving up to solid starter.

the two pick in that draft (pistons) missed 1 sure fire HOF'er and 3 superstars.

not equivalent IMO.

and, he missed Tony parker, who people were very high on, and joe johnson with another high pick.

Dumars is a above average drafting GM, but nothing special.

I cant rate danny because we've never had a high pick, but if the rumors are true that he wanted durrant over oden, then i say he was going to make a pretty good pick there.

of course, there's also rumors he wanted the chairmen at 5, so mabey that cancles out lol.
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Re: Dumars in the draft
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2009, 11:49:18 AM »

Offline DinoRadjaLives

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No matter what there can be no Mulligan with the Darco pick, the guy passed on Melo, Wade, Bosh and more, for a sub par player, it was an obvious choice and he blew it. To me that completely negates all talk of Dumars as any type of draft expert.

Likewise there should be no mulligans with the Gerald Green pick.  Danny missed picking Nate Robinson, David Lee, Jason Maxiell, Jarrett Jack, Francisco Garcia, CJ Miles, Monta Ellis, Louis Williams, Amir Johnson....

I realize it is not of the same magnitude (whiffing on a #2 pick is worse than on a #18 pick), but there are similarities: lots of people were high on Darko, likewise lots of people were high on Green.  The point is that it is easy to make a mistake when the player involved is young and untested.

The above players you listed are great role players in the NBA. But selecting Green over them didn't cost the franchise multiple championships.

You put Melo, Bosh, Wade on the Pistons with, BWallace, Sheed, Prince, Rip, and Billups and you win atleast two more championships.

That is where your difference is.
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