Author Topic: The Durant-Irving deception  (Read 9902 times)

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The Durant-Irving deception
« on: May 20, 2019, 08:31:07 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I thought of posting this within another thread but it kept growing and I thought I'd start one to focus on this thought, I hope that is ok.

There has been lots of talk recently and Kyrie's future, the lure of Durant, do we / don't we trade for Davis with / without Kyrie, can we get all 3??

I think it's highly unlikely that all three end up here. There would be so many dominoes that would need to fall in one summer, I don't think even Ainge is contemplating it.

I do think that amongst this there is some interesting deception going on amongst all this.

Firstly lets assume that the rumours about KD are true and he intends to leave the Warriors in the summer. His intent is to build a legacy at his own franchise where it is deemed his team. Basically anywhere except GS and the Lakers....

It's also very clear that KD and Irving have a good relationship and are excited about the prospect of playing on the same team.

The more I read and think about it the more I conclude that they are aiming to play on the same team next year. There are only a handful of teams where this can happen; Boston, New York, Brooklyn and LA Clippers. It seems Boston (Kyrie is there, there are routes to Durant) and New York (Free agency, seem to be more desirable for the two of them) are the forerunners here so let's focus on them.

As information comes out, it starts to make me think that their plan is to attempt to team up in Boston and fall back on New York if that doesn't work. Let me explain why...

For Golden State, it becomes clear Durant is leaving. He's made a decision, its done. As a clear minded GM, Bob Myers is thinking about where to go now. When approached with the possibility of a Durant opt in and trade to Boston deal, vs New York in free agency, I think he considers it carefully. The package must be based around Hayward for salary purposes, which is already a good haul in my eyes given they open no cap space and potentially lose Thompson too. But there must be more from the Celtics, something they can use in case they blow it up down the road. So it's likely the Memphis pick, #14 or another good pick would be included. There may also be the inclusion of someone like Robert Williams. I don't think it goes as far as including Brown or Tatum, though I think it is justifiable. (side question: would you include them?)

Should GS-Boston not work out a deal, I think that is the point that Durant and Irving head to New York. New York only require a few million extra in cap space to sign both to a max deal, easily achieved by doing a sign and trade for Irving, sending Ntilikina or Smith Jr to us in return for example. This is also what gives Golden State leverage in talks with us, because we lose Irving if the talks don't work.

For Boston, this could leave us with a team including Irving, Durant, Horford and a young trio of Smart, Tatum and/or Brown. In that scenario there is certainly the ability to trade for Davis but would you want to? Horford is likely a better fit with his low usage and passing, along with the certainty of contract situation. And I think we've learned that a clearer hierarchy of talent is needed, not a 1a/b/c.

So is Davis the smokescreen Ainge is using to divert attention from Durant? We have certainly seen it before with Paul George and Jimmy Butler before trading for Irving. It also fits because we have pursued an interest in Durant for so long, Ainge clearly rates him at the top of the list. It's definitely a better outcome than the trades for Davis I have seen, and you have a clear best player on the roster with Durant.

I think Danny is the best at pushing things over the line. If Myers is willing to talk, which he should be, then we steal a march on the NBA and enter next season as the favourites for a title with Irving and Durant leading the way. I think Davis ends up going to the Lakers to team up with Lebron and New York ends up in a pit of misery once again.

How do you rate the soundness of this argument? And what chances do you give it of becoming true?

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2019, 08:54:54 AM »

Offline JBcat

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It seems like the only chance we have of trading for Durant either with or without Davis is if Durant opts into the last year of his contract.  Not sure he is going to do that.  A sign and trade for Durant is really not possible as pointed out by Nick in other threads.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2019, 10:01:54 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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It seems like the only chance we have of trading for Durant either with or without Davis is if Durant opts into the last year of his contract.  Not sure he is going to do that.  A sign and trade for Durant is really not possible as pointed out by Nick in other threads.

Durant would indeed need to opt in, much like Chris Paul did in the trade to Houston. He would be giving up about $6.7m next year in order to do this. A sign and trade is not possible because we will be a tax paying team, the appropriate term for this transaction would be 'opt in and trade'.

In terms of the likelihood of him doing that, I don't see why he would be averse to it. He's repeatedly taken less money to win in Golden State. Were he to team up with Irving in New York he would likely have to take slightly less than the max as well. He is one of the biggest endorsement earners in the NBA. From his comments in the past he values winning over money, I think he's definitely open to it.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 10:15:00 AM »

Offline jambr380

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It seems like the only chance we have of trading for Durant either with or without Davis is if Durant opts into the last year of his contract.  Not sure he is going to do that.  A sign and trade for Durant is really not possible as pointed out by Nick in other threads.

Yeah, because of the s&t rules as well as the issue with the 'apron' (although maybe not as much of an issue if we are not trading for AD), it seems next to impossible to do a simple s&t with Durant.

I do wonder if another team might be willing to take on Hayward and his contract, though - one that knows they are not going to get any other top tier FAs, but will have cap space. In this case, GSW would probably need something worthwhile coming back (Jaylen Brown?). In a vacuum, I would be happy to trade Hayward and Brown for Durant and Kyrie re-signed to new 4-5 year contracts, but it still feels like a lot to give up just to make contracts work.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2019, 10:26:28 AM »

Offline Never Nervous Pervis

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A trade with Golden State for Durant would start with Hayward/Horford, Tatum/Brown (if not both), and at least two first rounders.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2019, 10:37:27 AM »

Online mobilija

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If Durant is leaving GS regardless, why should GS expect a big return in trade? (i.e. lotto picks or top young players)

A "opt in" and trade resulting in Hayward is a lot better than just letting him walk, Right? Maybe they don't do it to save money but otherwise...

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 10:46:38 AM »

Offline Never Nervous Pervis

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If Durant is leaving GS regardless, why should GS expect a big return in trade? (i.e. lotto picks or top young players)

A "opt in" and trade resulting in Hayward is a lot better than just letting him walk, Right? Maybe they don't do it to save money but otherwise...

Because:

1. Boston can't sign Durant otherwise
2. Many across the league view Hayward's contract as an albatross
3. The Clippers got a huge haul from the Rockets for CP3 in a similar scenario


Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2019, 11:01:42 AM »

Offline GreenCoffeeBean

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A trade with Golden State for Durant would start with Hayward/Horford, Tatum/Brown (if not both), and at least two first rounders.

And create yet another GS team that we and nobody else in the NBA has any chance of beating.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2019, 11:07:29 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Uh the Clippers didn't get a huge haul for CP3. They got every role player who wasn't strapped down and a low first round pick.

Lou Williams was a nice bench player who just was worth a low first round pick at that point and Harrell was a out of rotation young project.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2019, 11:09:03 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Are we 100% sure KD and Kyrie are teaming up? While possible, I still think the C’s have the best chances of retaining him. I do think KD is gone from GSW but I think DA can convince Kyrie of the impending shakeup in this roster
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Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2019, 11:19:01 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Are we 100% sure KD and Kyrie are teaming up? While possible, I still think the C’s have the best chances of retaining him. I do think KD is gone from GSW but I think DA can convince Kyrie of the impending shakeup in this roster
I'm not. I am sure that Kyrie isn't coming back unless we shake up the current team somehow.

I assume that means AD, but who knows the NBA is weird. Still another month and a bit more before we know.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2019, 11:21:08 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Let's assume that Golden State does indeed settle for a reduced return for Durant.  Would Golden State be better off accepting Hayward and a pick, or letting Durant go to NY for nothing?

Taking on $60+ million for an unknown health risk might be too risky for them, particularly since Golden State would be deep in tax territory.


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Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2019, 11:23:32 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Let's assume that Golden State does indeed settle for a reduced return for Durant.  Would Golden State be better off accepting Hayward and a pick, or letting Durant go to NY for nothing?

Taking on $60+ million for an unknown health risk might be too risky for them, particularly since Golden State would be deep in tax territory.
It could be Horford instead of Hayward potentially, could it not? Horford next to a more aggressive Draymond could be a really good pairing.
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Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2019, 11:28:09 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Let's assume that Golden State does indeed settle for a reduced return for Durant.  Would Golden State be better off accepting Hayward and a pick, or letting Durant go to NY for nothing?

Taking on $60+ million for an unknown health risk might be too risky for them, particularly since Golden State would be deep in tax territory.
It could be Horford instead of Hayward potentially, could it not? Horford next to a more aggressive Draymond could be a really good pairing.

Yeah, that would be the better option for them, particularly on a one year deal.


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Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2019, 11:33:12 AM »

Offline Never Nervous Pervis

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Uh the Clippers didn't get a huge haul for CP3. They got every role player who wasn't strapped down and a low first round pick.

Lou Williams was a nice bench player who just was worth a low first round pick at that point and Harrell was a out of rotation young project.

The Clippers got 3 main cogs on a legitimate playoff team: Lou Williams, who is coming off consecutive 6th man of the year awards; Montrezl Harrell, another finalist for the 6th man of the year award and a revelation in the pick-and-roll; and defensive specialist Patrick Beverly. These three took the Warriors to 6 games in the first round of the playoffs.

Not only that, the Clips got a protected 1st round pick and salary relief.

For a guy who was all but gone, that's a great haul.