CelticsStrong

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CelticsElite on May 28, 2018, 02:33:58 AM

Title: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: CelticsElite on May 28, 2018, 02:33:58 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23628377/marcus-smart-restricted-free-agency-worth-more-12m-14m

Smart, who will be a restricted free agent this summer, was told that Boston might not be able -- or willing -- to afford the $12-14 million a year price tag that he reportedly has been seeking.

"To be honest, I'm worth more than 12-14 million," Smart told ESPN. "Just for the things I do on the court that don't show up on the stat sheet. You don't find guys like that. I always leave everything on the court, every game. Tell me how many other players can say that."
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year"
Post by: Beat LA on May 28, 2018, 02:35:30 AM
K thanks bye ;D.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year"
Post by: playdream on May 28, 2018, 02:40:35 AM
K thanks bye ;D.
As above
I love Smart but he just choked a game 7 and he talking this?
We should make a poll on this
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: mr. dee on May 28, 2018, 02:41:06 AM
Not liking this statement but I'll just leave it to Danny to negotiate and make moves.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: gouki88 on May 28, 2018, 03:10:00 AM
That's ridiculous. No he is not
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: SparzWizard on May 28, 2018, 03:14:55 AM
Send him packing with Rozier too. Sick of watching Smart chucking 3's.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: TA9 on May 28, 2018, 05:00:34 AM
He really has some nerve going out there and claiming that he's worth 14 million a year after his atrocious performance in Game 7.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: makaveli on May 28, 2018, 05:53:22 AM
Wow, i am his biggest fan, but this has to be one of the dummest statements ever. You play a bad game 7, lose, and on the same day, you come up with this...come on
I would love for him to stay, he is chanpinship caliber guy, but 14 mil, danny is not givong that money, 2 year 25 would be max for me.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: gouki88 on May 28, 2018, 05:59:23 AM
He really has some nerve going out there and claiming that he's worth 14 million a year after his atrocious performance in Game 7.
The audacity is astonishing really
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Who on May 28, 2018, 06:19:39 AM
Too much money unfortunately. He is my favourite player on the team. I'll be sad to see him go.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on May 28, 2018, 06:43:13 AM
A trademark of ainge is to never overpay for bench players.

Either smart changes his tune or he goes. Then again,this might be a negotiating ploy...,maybe.  :P
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Rakulp on May 28, 2018, 06:48:17 AM
A trademark of ainge is to never overpay for bench players.

Either smart changes his tune or he goes. Then again,this might be a negotiating ploy...,maybe.  :P

If it is a negotiating ploy, it's a rather stupid one at a stupid time.  This after hurting his hand doing something else stupid.

If another team values him more, so be it...but this team next year has Finals written all over it, with or without Smart.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on May 28, 2018, 06:55:21 AM
Smartest business statement Smart could make.  If you didn’t like “back up the Brink’s Truck” you shouldn’t like this.   I don’t like it, but I can’t blame him for it.  Danny knows his limit and I trust him.  If Danny isn’t willing to go high, I hope he can pull off an S&T.   If nothing else, Cs need some tradeable salary if they want to be in the mix for Leonard, Davis, Towns...
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: apc on May 28, 2018, 06:59:09 AM
Welcome Semi, the next Marcus Smart.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Csfan1984 on May 28, 2018, 07:03:24 AM
Mle level or let him walk.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: jambr380 on May 28, 2018, 07:04:44 AM
What a moronic thing to say after his abysmal 1-10 shooting performance. Sure, he makes unique plays and provides a high level of intensity, but he is a back-up guard. Noel thought the same thing when he turned down 70M over 4 years from the Mavs and took the QO. I guess that is the best we can hope for with Smart.

Funny thing is, the picture frame incident was very close to being a season ender. If that had happened, we might very well be talking tax-payers MLE right now for the guy. This playoff run was a lot of fun, but it might have cost us Smart and Baynes.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Csfan1984 on May 28, 2018, 07:05:24 AM
Smartest business statement Smart could make.  If you didn’t like “back up the Brink’s Truck” you shouldn’t like this.   I don’t like it, but I can’t blame him for it.  Danny knows his limit and I trust him.  If Danny isn’t willing to go high, I hope he can pull off an S&T.   If nothing else, Cs need some tradeable salary if they want to be in the mix for Leonard, Davis, Towns...
Smart brings the brick truck.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: CFAN38 on May 28, 2018, 07:15:36 AM
Lowe speculated “ and I think he might be right” that smart would not be happy with the offers he receives this offseason and ends up taking his qualifying offer. This would mean the Cs get him back for one year at 6mill and then he becomes a UFA. This might actually be best case for Cs who would then have more room under the lux tax to retain Baynes. The follow My year they will be over the lux tax and likely willing to pay Smart more then this offseason.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 07:17:38 AM
If he really gets an offer that big he's gone. I'm skeptical he will, him accepting the QO seems more likely to me.

I have no problem with him wanting to get paid though, he plays hard and is young guy.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: dreamgreen on May 28, 2018, 07:35:10 AM
Cant wait for him to be gone! His next team the fans will hate him. Watching him be the go to guy makes me go crazy!!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: CelticD on May 28, 2018, 07:42:46 AM
He was probably worth more during the preseason but we've seen he hasn't improved his game nearly as much as he made everyone believe during the offseason.

"It's a new me."

Is it? He's still a horrible 3-point shooter, still has poor shot selection, and still gets caught making silly passes on a regular. The hustle and energy is fine, but people also would like to pay for potential, and Smart's ceiling is looking pretty low.

Can't wait till he's off the team.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: iadera on May 28, 2018, 07:47:14 AM
Welcome Semi, the next Marcus Smart.

Semi at least doesn't throw bricks at audience...
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: celticinorlando on May 28, 2018, 07:51:52 AM
No way I pay him a penny over 9 or 10.

His offense is too inconsistent to be paid that much

Deft a defensive minded guy

And spent the money on one or two guys to
 replace him

That is just ridiculous. Boston can find someone in free agency cheaper to replace him
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on May 28, 2018, 08:06:24 AM
Watch the linked video and tell me what he said that was wrong after this loss.   The story doesn’t match the video.  Did he actually say what is attributed to him last night?  If so, it’s not on the linked video.   If he said what is in the article, it was in response to someone questioning whether he thinks he’s worth 12-14M (or a reporter goading him by suggesting Boston won’t pay that much). No one here thinks he’s going to say “no, I don’t think I’m worth that much”, right?   He could also say “I’m not talking about it”. But why do that?  If you are an RFA you want teams to know you are available and that there is a price that your current team probably won’t match.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: celticinorlando on May 28, 2018, 08:08:46 AM
Nobody is paying him that

He is a hustle guy

Develop semi for that

Smart was putrid last night

1-7 shooting

Missed free throws

Turnovers
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Birdman on May 28, 2018, 08:09:02 AM
Let him walk..be lot of players in free agency who will b cheaper and can score better
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: gouki88 on May 28, 2018, 08:17:51 AM
Let him walk..be lot of players in free agency who will b cheaper and can score better
Yeah, precisely.

I'd much rather throw money at guys like Evans, Favors, Gerald Green (yet again!), Rondo, Redick or Belinelli than offer Smart upwards of $11m/year
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: droopdog7 on May 28, 2018, 08:22:00 AM
Is anyone really shocked?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: CelticD on May 28, 2018, 08:23:55 AM
Let him walk..be lot of players in free agency who will b cheaper and can score better
Yeah, precisely.

I'd much rather throw money at guys like Evans, Favors, Gerald Green (yet again!), Rondo, Redick or Belinelli than offer Smart upwards of $11m/year

Ya this should be the offseason where the C's pick up ring-chasing vets for cheap. There'll be a lot of players looking to be a apart of a winning system and playing along Kyrie and Horford.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: celticinorlando on May 28, 2018, 08:25:33 AM
Reddick might be too much money, but I would love to see him off the bench as 6th man in Boston
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Birdman on May 28, 2018, 08:26:30 AM
Should have gotten Tyreke Evans..
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: colincb on May 28, 2018, 08:30:00 AM
Bad look to be negotiating over salary right after a tough loss in which he was 1-10.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: hodgy03038 on May 28, 2018, 08:32:53 AM
Reddick might be too much money, but I would love to see him off the bench as 6th man in Boston

I agree that would be some potent bench scoring. Maybe Smart signs with Philly and we sign Redick.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: hpantazo on May 28, 2018, 08:34:46 AM
He can think what he wants to think, but I have a hard time believing any team will offer him 14 million or more per year.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: hodgy03038 on May 28, 2018, 08:38:34 AM
He can think what he wants to think, but I have a hard time believing any team will offer him 14 million or more per year.

How much did Evan Turner get?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: hpantazo on May 28, 2018, 08:39:50 AM
He can think what he wants to think, but I have a hard time believing any team will offer him 14 million or more per year.

How much did Evan Turner get?

Different market this offseason, different type of player too.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: ETNCeltics on May 28, 2018, 08:42:07 AM
He looks like a me-first, first-class idiot, saying this after going 1-10 in the biggest game of his life.

Just shut up, Marcus.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: colincb on May 28, 2018, 08:46:52 AM
He can think what he wants to think, but I have a hard time believing any team will offer him 14 million or more per year.

How much did Evan Turner get?

Way too much even for a market where teams were drowning in excess cap money to spend. The Cs didn't extend him and from reading Jackie, I'm pretty sure they won't pay him $14MM.

Quote
The Celtics can make a qualifying offer of nearly $6.1 million to Smart and can match any free-agent offer that is made by another team, but it's unlikely they will do so if the numbers climb too high. Boston discussed an extension with its gritty defensive specialist, team sources said, but the dollar figures were too far apart. The Celtics are resigned that Smart will opt for a bigger payday elsewhere instead of taking a hometown discount.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: satch on May 28, 2018, 08:48:27 AM
He does some good things and he does some bad things. I like him but I don't see 14 million reasons of like.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: apc on May 28, 2018, 08:53:50 AM
We have our stars. Everyone else on the team should be on a rookie/min/mle type deals.
We are in a position where good vets should want to come here and play for a champ on a discounted deal.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 09:01:00 AM
He can think what he wants to think, but I have a hard time believing any team will offer him 14 million or more per year.

How much did Evan Turner get?

Different market this offseason, different type of player too.
Plus the spending splurge of that offseason is still making teams tight on cap space/budget.

All those deals are still around and teams are far more gun shy with big offers for role players now.

Look at how badly the Deng/Mahnmi/Mosgov/Turner/Batum deals are thought of.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 09:02:41 AM
We have our stars. Everyone else on the team should be on a rookie/min/mle type deals.
We are in a position where good vets should want to come here and play for a champ on a discounted deal.
Naw one or two bigger deals is good to have just from a potential trade aspect. The discount of Tatum/Brown rooke scale contract should be utilized to the fullest they can without removing all flexibility for the future.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: lrybrd on May 28, 2018, 09:26:49 AM
This is the problem with Smart.  He thinks that he is a good shooter and just doesn’t know his limitations.  If he would just play to his strengths, he would be worth the money.  But, he considers himself a go-to-scorer.  There’s the door brother!!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: celticinorlando on May 28, 2018, 09:27:04 AM
Makes the decision to keep Rozier over smart pretty easy

Need to get Kyrie signed ASAP. Last night was so evident how important he is
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Roy H. on May 28, 2018, 09:38:22 AM
(https://m.popkey.co/219d6d/5jjeN.gif)

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: celticinorlando on May 28, 2018, 09:38:57 AM
If Danny green opts out would love to get him
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: bdm860 on May 28, 2018, 09:43:50 AM
If he really gets an offer that big he's gone. I'm skeptical he will, him accepting the QO seems more likely to me.

I have no problem with him wanting to get paid though, he plays hard and is young guy.

This is the best case scenario IMO.

I think the more he wants a big payday, the more likely he is to take the QO this year.

Smart on the QO will go a long way to keeping the team under the luxury tax threshold next year, which puts off the repeater tax another year too (which comes 5 years later).

Also Smart on a QO also gives the team another year to decide who they want to keep, Rozier or Smart (or none or both).

Nothing wrong with him thinking he deserves a huge payday.  Good for him if a team wants to pay him $20m per.   Definitely wouldn't be wise to take a discount with Trader Danny as your GM.  I do wonder what his real market value is though, will be interesting to see how this (and Rozier next year) plays out.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Androslav on May 28, 2018, 09:47:12 AM
If Danny green opts out would love to get him
Ojeleye finds his stroke and we are all good.

I adore MS plays,
unfortunately, just the defensive ones.

14$ is starters money - sorry Marcus.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Banner18now! on May 28, 2018, 09:52:16 AM
You don't pay a hustle guy 14 million a year. I highly doubt a team is going to come with that high of an offer but if one is stupid enough to do that then goodbye. His offense is too putrid and hurts the team to pay him 14 million a year. He just went out and played a horrible game and makes these statements?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: perks-a-beast on May 28, 2018, 10:09:48 AM
best to go for a replacement via draft or free agency than to pay a guy who is consistently going one for ten over 10 mill...

a lot of defensive minded guards in this years draft...
Grayson Allen
Troy Brown
Melvin Frazier
Bruce Brown
Rawle Alkins
Josh Okogie


I think we'll be fine post smart to be honest..
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: cman88 on May 28, 2018, 10:14:03 AM
what smart wants and what smart gets are two different things. they should pull a belichick...let smart go out there and see his value. If he realizes no team will pay him 14million then he comes back with his tail between his legs and signs the QO for a year or his demands come down.

If not, then see you later. the NBA is about STARS. teams dont win paying role-players big $$.

and if a team wants to pay marcus smart 14+ million to be "the guy" on their team...they will quickly regret it as he bricks up 10shots a game
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: slamtheking on May 28, 2018, 10:21:11 AM
I'm as big a fan of Smart as there is here but that's way more than he's worth --> particularly after a 1-10 shooting performance in a game 7. 

he brings a lot to the table that doesn't show up in a stat sheet which is true but that's a lot of money to invest in someone who's unlikely to be on the court in crunch time going forward when we have Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown getting those minutes.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Rosco917 on May 28, 2018, 10:30:57 AM
The one thing about Marcus that bothers me is, he still doesn't know who he is. He doesn't realize when not to shoot the 27 foot 3 ball.

I'd like to have him on this team for reasonable NBA dollars.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 10:34:28 AM
and if a team wants to pay marcus smart 14+ million to be "the guy" on their team...they will quickly regret it as he bricks up 10shots a game
Well 14 million is Joe Ingles, Taj Gibson, Demare Carrol, Eric Bledsoe, Reggie Jackson, Dennis Schroeder, JR Smith, etc etc money

That's not "the guy" money. The guy money is now $25-35 million depending on your years of service.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Phantom255x on May 28, 2018, 10:38:56 AM
Highest I'd do is between 10-12M/Year.

I love Smart, but if some team actually offers him 15M or more a year, then he's gone. Frankly though, I don't see much of a market for him to even command that. Maybe 12-14M/Year at best, but more?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: hardlyyardley on May 28, 2018, 10:41:34 AM
Sixers convert Riddick $$ to Smart....they ned a guy like him and it weakens the C's
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: BitterJim on May 28, 2018, 10:43:48 AM
If he really gets an offer that big he's gone. I'm skeptical he will, him accepting the QO seems more likely to me.

I have no problem with him wanting to get paid though, he plays hard and is young guy.

This is the best case scenario IMO.

I think the more he wants a big payday, the more likely he is to take the QO this year.

Smart on the QO will go a long way to keeping the team under the luxury tax threshold next year, which puts off the repeater tax another year too (which comes 5 years later).

Also Smart on a QO also gives the team another year to decide who they want to keep, Rozier or Smart (or none or both).

Nothing wrong with him thinking he deserves a huge payday.  Good for him if a team wants to pay him $20m per.   Definitely wouldn't be wise to take a discount with Trader Danny as your GM.  I do wonder what his real market value is though, will be interesting to see how this (and Rozier next year) plays out.

Even bigger than preventing the repeater tax, it will allow us to use the full MLE, likely to retain Baynes.  We need his size and toughness back (especially if the 3 keeps falling)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 10:50:55 AM
Sixers convert Riddick $$ to Smart....they ned a guy like him and it weakens the C's
They most certainly do not need a secondary play maker who cannot shoot lol.

They have much bigger fish to go after.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Kuberski33 on May 28, 2018, 10:51:09 AM
Smartest business statement Smart could make.  If you didn’t like “back up the Brink’s Truck” you shouldn’t like this.   I don’t like it, but I can’t blame him for it.  Danny knows his limit and I trust him.  If Danny isn’t willing to go high, I hope he can pull off an S&T.   If nothing else, Cs need some tradeable salary if they want to be in the mix for Leonard, Davis, Towns...
I agree with the first part.  He just told all the owners what he's looking for and I'm guessing one of them who loves Smart is going to say...let's go $15-$16 and get him - he's going to change our culture.  As for the second please forget about Davis.  He's not coming here.

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 28, 2018, 10:51:49 AM
Should have gotten Tyreke Evans..

Exactly
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Kuberski33 on May 28, 2018, 10:56:33 AM
If he really gets an offer that big he's gone. I'm skeptical he will, him accepting the QO seems more likely to me.

I have no problem with him wanting to get paid though, he plays hard and is young guy.

This is the best case scenario IMO.

I think the more he wants a big payday, the more likely he is to take the QO this year.

Smart on the QO will go a long way to keeping the team under the luxury tax threshold next year, which puts off the repeater tax another year too (which comes 5 years later).

Also Smart on a QO also gives the team another year to decide who they want to keep, Rozier or Smart (or none or both).

Nothing wrong with him thinking he deserves a huge payday.  Good for him if a team wants to pay him $20m per.   Definitely wouldn't be wise to take a discount with Trader Danny as your GM.  I do wonder what his real market value is though, will be interesting to see how this (and Rozier next year) plays out.

Even bigger than preventing the repeater tax, it will allow us to use the full MLE, likely to retain Baynes.  We need his size and toughness back (especially if the 3 keeps falling)
Given the choice between Baynes and Smart - moving forward you need to be able to deal with Embid and the other quality bigs around the league. And Embid especially...I think Baynes is a higher priority.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: tazzmaniac on May 28, 2018, 10:58:12 AM
Sixers convert Riddick $$ to Smart....they ned a guy like him and it weakens the C's
Smart is a terrible fit for the Sixers.  With Simmons and Smart on the court, teams would just collapse into the paint on Embiid and dare the Sixers to shoot 3s.  Redick on the other hand is a very good fit for them. 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: BitterJim on May 28, 2018, 11:00:28 AM
If he really gets an offer that big he's gone. I'm skeptical he will, him accepting the QO seems more likely to me.

I have no problem with him wanting to get paid though, he plays hard and is young guy.

This is the best case scenario IMO.

I think the more he wants a big payday, the more likely he is to take the QO this year.

Smart on the QO will go a long way to keeping the team under the luxury tax threshold next year, which puts off the repeater tax another year too (which comes 5 years later).

Also Smart on a QO also gives the team another year to decide who they want to keep, Rozier or Smart (or none or both).

Nothing wrong with him thinking he deserves a huge payday.  Good for him if a team wants to pay him $20m per.   Definitely wouldn't be wise to take a discount with Trader Danny as your GM.  I do wonder what his real market value is though, will be interesting to see how this (and Rozier next year) plays out.

Even bigger than preventing the repeater tax, it will allow us to use the full MLE, likely to retain Baynes.  We need his size and toughness back (especially if the 3 keeps falling)
Given the choice between Baynes and Smart - moving forward you need to be able to deal with Embid and the other quality bigs around the league. And Embid especially...I think Baynes is a higher priority.

If I had to pick, I'd pick the 24 year old over the 31 year old. I think the decision is more likely to be Smart vs. Baynes vs. Morris, though, in which case I'd pack Morris' bags for him. There's just no room for him behind Hayward, Tatum, and Brown
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 28, 2018, 11:01:11 AM
https://hoopshype.com/2018/05/27/marcus-smart-boston-celtics-free-agency/
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
Morris isn't going anywhere next year unless its part of a bigger trade.

He's on a bargain $5.3 million contract. For a flexible wing who can defend and shoot 3s off the bench that's too good of a value to jetison.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: jmen788 on May 28, 2018, 11:02:38 AM
2 Words for Marcus Smart: Bye Felicia
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: td450 on May 28, 2018, 11:05:53 AM
This is not up to Smart, and it really isn't under Ainge's control either. This is about the market for his services, and there are only a handful of teams who could even consider paying him over $10M. This is a bad year to hope someone overpays you.

The only way Marcus sticks here long term is if he takes a deal less than $10M. If we match an offer that is higher than that, it can't be much higher, because Ainge will absolutely have to move him. If he gets an offer for $14M we do not match, because we don't have the minutes to make him an attractive player at that price, and there is no way he can stay.

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: cman88 on May 28, 2018, 11:07:02 AM
and if a team wants to pay marcus smart 14+ million to be "the guy" on their team...they will quickly regret it as he bricks up 10shots a game
Well 14 million is Joe Ingles, Taj Gibson, Demare Carrol, Eric Bledsoe, Reggie Jackson, Dennis Schroeder, JR Smith, etc etc money

That's not "the guy" money. The guy money is now $25-35 million depending on your years of service.

Yeah, I forget that the pay range for NBA players has changed. I still think most of those guys are over-paid and smart getting 14million plus would be as well.

The question for ainge becomes, with Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford....is smart worth the money to be a 15-20minute a game player. he surely isnt going to start before those guys in crunchtime.

last year when another good roleplayer in avery bradley's pay demands exceeded what ainge would be willing to pay he shipped him off for Marcus morris who has become a solid roleplayer. At the time I remember fans worrying how we would fill bradleys void on defense.

I think much like Belichick, ainge understands this is a stars game. And if the player isn't a star you can find role-players who can fit in and fill their role. I wouldnt be surprised if ainge packages smart or rozier or both in sign and trades for cheaper/short deal role-players.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: jpotter33 on May 28, 2018, 11:08:26 AM
Well, I guess we now know what the extension talks were this past summer - Smart was wanting closer to $20M per and Danny was in the $12 - $14M range. After this season, I don’t think $14M would still be on the table with his lack of shooting improvement.

I don’t see any team offering him any more than that, so I could see us coming to some sort of agreement around the $10 - $12M per year range. Otherwise he takes the QO and hopes for improvement before free agency in 2019.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: BitterJim on May 28, 2018, 11:15:18 AM
Morris isn't going anywhere next year unless its part of a bigger trade.

He's on a bargain $5.3 million contract. For a flexible wing who can defend and shoot 3s off the bench that's too good of a value to jetison.

AB on $8 million was a bargain as well.  But if you need to clear space to resign a better or more important player, being on a great contract is irrelevant.  I think he'll be a cap casualty, because if we need to clear space he's the obvious choice.

"No way we even consider trading them" tier:
Hayward: $31.2 million
Horford: $28.9 million
Irving: $20.0 million
Tatum: $6.7 million
Brown: $5.2 million

"Could be traded" tier:
Morris: $5.4 million
Rozier: $3.0 million
Yabusele: $2.7 million
Semi: $1.4 million
Nader: $1.4 million
Theis: $1.4 million

Of the non-untouchable players, Morris makes the most by far (you need to put the next 2 players together to equal him, but even then the roster spot you would leave open would put Morris back on top). If we need to clear space, he'll be gone.  And given that Smart and Baynes are more important to the team than having Morris as our 4th string PF, I can't see him staying (unless Smart gets offered way too much and goes elsewhere OR he signs the QO and leaves us plenty of cap space)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 11:21:15 AM
Morris isn't going anywhere next year unless its part of a bigger trade.

He's on a bargain $5.3 million contract. For a flexible wing who can defend and shoot 3s off the bench that's too good of a value to jetison.

AB on $8 million was a bargain as well.  But if you need to clear space to resign a better or more important player, being on a great contract is irrelevant.  I think he'll be a cap casualty, because if we need to clear space he's the obvious choice.
We will not have cap space and if we're dumping players for no salary back I bet we send out Yabu or Nader first if were trying to dodge the tax.

The Celtics aren't having their roster have only 4 wings given Hayward is recovering from an injury.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: GreenShooter on May 28, 2018, 11:23:43 AM
If Smart doesn't want to play for the qualifying offer then how often does a sign and trade happen in these kind of situations? I don't really remember any that were good fits for either team.
Let's hope there's a player of similar caliber in the draft (very good defensive player but one that can shoot the 3). I won't mind missing the pit-bull mentality he brings. Teams have won plenty without one of these type players. Drafting Bruce Brown could help replace Smart. He's a bad shooter but does everything else pretty well.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Kuberski33 on May 28, 2018, 11:29:23 AM
Morris isn't going anywhere next year unless its part of a bigger trade.

He's on a bargain $5.3 million contract. For a flexible wing who can defend and shoot 3s off the bench that's too good of a value to jetison.

AB on $8 million was a bargain as well.  But if you need to clear space to resign a better or more important player, being on a great contract is irrelevant.  I think he'll be a cap casualty, because if we need to clear space he's the obvious choice.

"No way we even consider trading them" tier:
Hayward: $31.2 million
Horford: $28.9 million
Irving: $20.0 million
Tatum: $6.7 million
Brown: $5.2 million

"Could be traded" tier:
Morris: $5.4 million
Rozier: $3.0 million
Yabusele: $2.7 million
Semi: $1.4 million
Nader: $1.4 million
Theis: $1.4 million

Of the non-untouchable players, Morris makes the most by far (you need to put the next 2 players together to equal him, but even then the roster spot you would leave open would put Morris back on top). If we need to clear space, he'll be gone.  And given that Smart and Baynes are more important to the team than having Morris as our 4th string PF, I can't see him staying (unless Smart gets offered way too much and goes elsewhere OR he signs the QO and leaves us plenty of cap space)
Morris could be moved but I think he's more likely to stay if Smart leaves. He's probably their best defensive matchup vs Lebron (for what that's worth) but also him at 5.4 ml is a better deal than Smart at 14 mil.

You're not going to replace Smart's penchant for the game changing play but that will be offset by they guys they're getting back plus a year older Tatum/Brown. 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 11:30:48 AM
If Smart doesn't want to play for the qualifying offer then how often does a sign and trade happen in these kind of situations?
They don't. Especially given the C's lack cap space to make it easier to match salaries.

If he can't get an offer sheet he'll end up playing for the QO.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Monkhouse on May 28, 2018, 11:31:08 AM
My prediction?

Smart resigns with for 13.5 million with team friendly incentives that could have annual raises of up to 1.7 million like rebounding more, getting more assists, and shooting above a certain percentage on his shots and 3 point attempts.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: cman88 on May 28, 2018, 11:36:22 AM
I feel like Avery bradleys situation is closer to smarts than marcus morris....bradley was a coveted roleplayer known for his defensive hustle (much like smart). Although in his last year we knew Bradley was going to demand 20million$ so ainge traded him...partly to create space for Gordon Hayward...and partly because the celtics werent paying 20million to a roleplayer. in return they got another roleplayer in Morris on a cheaper/longer deal.

If you take Gordon hayward out early in the quarter and then put him back with the 2nd unit as a ball-handler(which was a large part of his role in utah). Does that negate some of smarts value? we know ainges original plan was to always have one of Kyrie/Hayward/horford on the floor...I can only imagine it will stay the same next year with the added benefit of Tatum/Brown
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Kuberski33 on May 28, 2018, 11:40:45 AM
I feel like Avery bradleys situation is closer to smarts than marcus morris....bradley was a coveted roleplayer known for his defensive hustle (much like smart). Although in his last year we knew Bradley was going to demand 20million$ so ainge traded him...partly to create space for Gordon Hayward...and partly because the celtics werent paying 20million to a roleplayer. in return they got another roleplayer in Morris on a cheaper/longer deal.

If you take Gordon hayward out early in the quarter and then put him back with the 2nd unit as a ball-handler(which was a large part of his role in utah). Does that negate some of smarts value? we know ainges original plan was to always have one of Kyrie/Hayward/horford on the floor...I can only imagine it will stay the same next year with the added benefit of Tatum/Brown
It absolutely does.  Brad's going to be able to have 2 all star caliber players on the court at all times next season, assuming they stay relatively healthy. They'll destroy a lot of 2nd units.  So between Morris, Semi and Rozier they'd be able to mitigate the loss of Smart.  I do think that in a perfect world however they'd want him back at what they consider a reasonable salary.  I'm just not sure that's in the cards.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Sophomore on May 28, 2018, 11:43:40 AM
I feel like Avery bradleys situation is closer to smarts than marcus morris....bradley was a coveted roleplayer known for his defensive hustle (much like smart). Although in his last year we knew Bradley was going to demand 20million$ so ainge traded him...partly to create space for Gordon Hayward...and partly because the celtics werent paying 20million to a roleplayer. in return they got another roleplayer in Morris on a cheaper/longer deal.

If you take Gordon hayward out early in the quarter and then put him back with the 2nd unit as a ball-handler(which was a large part of his role in utah). Does that negate some of smarts value? we know ainges original plan was to always have one of Kyrie/Hayward/horford on the floor...I can only imagine it will stay the same next year with the added benefit of Tatum/Brown
It absolutely does.  Brad's going to be able to have 2 all star caliber players on the court at all times next season, assuming they stay relatively healthy. They'll destroy a lot of 2nd units.  So between Morris, Semi and Rozier they'd be able to mitigate the loss of Smart.  I do think that in a perfect world however they'd want him back at what they consider a reasonable salary.  I'm just not sure that's in the cards.

As many people have said, I can’t believe they’d pay him $15 million starting next year. I really admire his spirit, and who knows, maybe he’ll become a league-average shooter by the end of his next contract (which would make him a very nice player), but we can’t pay that much for a sixth or seventh man.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Chief Macho on May 28, 2018, 11:51:06 AM
That's hilarious.

What they need to do is convert Rozier and Smart into a better backup point guard or a young pg with higher ceiling.   

What a league when Marcus Smart is asking for 14 million dollar a year.   14 MILLION DOLLARS.  Christ,  NBA pay is insane.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: celticinorlando on May 28, 2018, 12:00:29 PM
Rumor is the pacers are going to come hard after Smart
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Green-18 on May 28, 2018, 12:05:26 PM
Rumor is the pacers are going to come hard after Smart

Makes complete sense for them.  Dipo's ability in the P&R would allow the pairing to work during crunch time.  Their defense in the back court would be insane!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 12:07:57 PM
Rumor is the pacers are going to come hard after Smart
I'm sure Smart's agent is working the rumors hard to try and drum up a market.

Hard is going to be for less money than Smart wants is my guess.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Chief Macho on May 28, 2018, 12:08:38 PM
If Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Irving are your core why would you spend big money on anyone else?  Tradeable contracts I guess,  but everything Smart does can be replicated with someone else cheaper with Brad coaching.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: cman88 on May 28, 2018, 12:11:42 PM
celtics should be at a point now especially after this run where quality role-players will want to come here for a chance at a ring.

Ainge's top job now is going to be able to fill the coffers and keep solid role-players around a core of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford.

Assuming everyone is healthy I dont think smart would get enough minutes to warrant 14+ million. Imagine last nights game, except Gordon Hayward or Kyrie Irving would be out there taking 10+ 3's instead of smart/rozier.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 28, 2018, 12:18:56 PM
celtics should be at a point now especially after this run where quality role-players will want to come here for a chance at a ring.

Ainge's top job now is going to be able to fill the coffers and keep solid role-players around a core of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford.

Assuming everyone is healthy I dont think smart would get enough minutes to warrant 14+ million. Imagine last nights game, except Gordon Hayward or Kyrie Irving would be out there taking 10+ 3's instead of smart/rozier.
I think hitting on draft picks who can become supporting players and converting that SAC pick into the best talent possible is his foremost concern.
Title: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on May 28, 2018, 12:37:22 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23628377/marcus-smart-restricted-free-agency-worth-more-12m-14m (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23628377/marcus-smart-restricted-free-agency-worth-more-12m-14m)

Quote
Smart, who will be a restricted free agent this summer, was told that Boston might not be able -- or willing -- to afford the $12-14 million a year price tag that he reportedly has been seeking.

"To be honest, I'm worth more than 12-14 million," Smart told ESPN. "Just for the things I do on the court that don't show up on the stat sheet. You don't find guys like that. I always leave everything on the court, every game. Tell me how many other players can say that."

Well, is this goodbye, then?

Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: BringToughnessBack on May 28, 2018, 12:42:07 PM
I would not give Marcus Smart 14M a year but it is what I thought would play out with him. Someone will most likely, someone desperate in need of a culture change.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: bopna on May 28, 2018, 12:45:25 PM
Time to develop the kids and see what we have in Semi, Yabu and Jabari Bird.

The sarting five on opening night will be the main contributors on offense.. See what we canget in a Sign and trade with Smart..if we include Rozier.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: Monkhouse on May 28, 2018, 12:56:11 PM
I would be okay with giving Smart 12 to 14 million with incentives locked in for good shooting, more rebounding, All Defensive awards or more passing numbers.

That being said.. My favorite player will probably be leaving us shortly..
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: CelticsElite on May 28, 2018, 01:00:08 PM
This is not up to Smart, and it really isn't under Ainge's control either. This is about the market for his services, and there are only a handful of teams who could even consider paying him over $10M. This is a bad year to hope someone overpays you.

The only way Marcus sticks here long term is if he takes a deal less than $10M. If we match an offer that is higher than that, it can't be much higher, because Ainge will absolutely have to move him. If he gets an offer for $14M we do not match, because we don't have the minutes to make him an attractive player at that price, and there is no way he can stay.
good way of looking at it
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on May 28, 2018, 01:03:14 PM
I see there's a similar thread that was here already and I didn't see it.

I want to apologize to the moderators for posting a similar thread. Sorry...
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: ETNCeltics on May 28, 2018, 01:07:16 PM
Very likely that Smart is gone.

Teams have to be very particular about giving big contracts to mid level players. You get into the tax, a guy like Smart will wind up costing you as much as a max player.

Last night, tons of minutes, tons of opportunities with 2 stars out of the lineup, and Smart lays an egg.

The Celtics won't pay him $12 million, and no other team likely will either. His only chance at that much is if some team short of the minimum needs some place to dump a little extra $ on a one year deal.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on May 28, 2018, 01:26:05 PM
Will this help Danny be comfortable in matching that price point?

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/17/celtics-co-owner-wyc-grousbeck-ready-to/

Quote
For those that were concerned that the frugal Bostonians heading the Boston Celtics front office would be reluctant to pay the price of keeping their deep and talented core in tact, there’s no need. On Wednesday, Celtics co-owner Wycliffe Grousbeck appeared on 98.5 The Sports Hub and, when asked if the Celtics will pay deep into the luxury tax to keep theteam together in the future, said he’s hoping to “pay for performance” and “we are prepared to do whatever it takes to win again”.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on May 28, 2018, 01:27:17 PM
K thanks bye ;D.

IN DANNY WE TRUST!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: vjcsmoke on May 28, 2018, 01:27:52 PM
I feel like we're going to give Smart the 6m QO.  Then we'll offer an extension something like 3/36 or 4/44.  Take it or leave it Marcus because I don't think any other team will make a bigger offer.

If he doesn't sign the extension, he'll probably find out that he made a Nerlens Noel mistake - overvalue your own worth, turn down the money, and find yourself in limbo and regretting that decision.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: goCeltics on May 28, 2018, 01:30:53 PM
if he doesn't get a high enough offer he might sign the QO, Rozier is as a capable backup and hedge on Kyrie despite game 7 where smart was not much better. If he moves on should mean that the c's would be free to spend the full mle.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: libermaniac on May 28, 2018, 01:31:04 PM
It doesn’t matter what he thinks he’s worth at this time. It’s what the market thinks he’s worth. His thinking might also lead to him turning down smaller offers or him signing the qualifying offer. So it might lead to a Nerlens Noel type of situation. I’d love to retain him because IMO he’s the heart and soul of this team.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 28, 2018, 01:36:27 PM
if he doesn't get a high enough offer he might sign the QO, Rozier is as a capable backup and hedge on Kyrie despite game 7 where smart was not much better. If he moves on should mean that the c's would be free to spend the full mle.

He will get somebody to offer 12-13 million per season

But I don't think the Celts will match it.  He is a bench player at the end of the day in the Celts lineup. Same with Rozier

Celts hope he signs the 1 year QO, but if Smart feels like that won't improve his money making capabilities the season after (BC he will be coming off the bench). 

I think he signs with the first team that offers anywhere north of 12 million for 3 years +. Then tries to pad stats in search of more money for the contract after
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 28, 2018, 01:38:58 PM
Wouldn't it be interesting if Smart and Isaiah team up again

Magic for example could sign both (13-15 million each)  to be the teams backcourt next season.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: sdceltsfan on May 28, 2018, 01:40:02 PM
Not sure how anyone who focuses on Smarts “intangible” plays, never realizes that the reality is that his poor shooting percentages and turnovers outweigh the handful of gritty plays he makes to create a second chance or steal.

His shooting is that bad, that 9 tomes out of 10, it is a mulligan at best in my eyes. The games that we barely win by because of one or two “Marcus Smart heads up plays” would have been easy wins if the missed/forced shots went to other players who can actually make them consistently.

There isn’t ome Celtics fan out there who doesn’t cringe/shout out loud “Nooooo” every time Smart catches a pass in a set position behind the 3-pt line. Admit it!

How then, are we talking about throwing even TEN million a year for a player that is such an offensive liability?

I’m sure Smart will get a $14 million/yr offer, but it will be from a team like Sacramento or Atlanta who actually REPEL the top free-agents in the league, and have to settle for over-paying the mediocrity of the league.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: SparzWizard on May 28, 2018, 01:43:54 PM
Not sure how anyone who focuses on Smarts “intangible” plays, never realizes that the reality is that his poor shooting percentages and turnovers outweigh the handful of gritty plays he makes to create a second chance or steal.

His shooting is that bad, that 9 tomes out of 10, it is a mulligan at best in my eyes. The games that we barely win by because of one or two “Marcus Smart heads up plays” would have been easy wins if the missed/forced shots went to other players who can actually make them consistently.

There isn’t ome Celtics fan out there who doesn’t cringe/shout out loud “Nooooo” every time Smart catches a pass in a set position behind the 3-pt line. Admit it!

How then, are we talking about throwing even TEN million a year for a player that is such an offensive liability?

I’m sure Smart will get a $14 million/yr offer, but it will be from a team like Sacramento or Atlanta who actually REPEL the top free-agents in the league, and have to settle for over-paying the mediocrity of the league.

Lol oh every time I see him hovering around the perimeter I cringe. I know that he wants to CHUCK a 3 right there.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 28, 2018, 01:44:57 PM
Not sure how anyone who focuses on Smarts “intangible” plays, never realizes that the reality is that his poor shooting percentages and turnovers outweigh the handful of gritty plays he makes to create a second chance or steal.

His shooting is that bad, that 9 tomes out of 10, it is a mulligan at best in my eyes. The games that we barely win by because of one or two “Marcus Smart heads up plays” would have been easy wins if the missed/forced shots went to other players who can actually make them consistently.

There isn’t ome Celtics fan out there who doesn’t cringe/shout out loud “Nooooo” every time Smart catches a pass in a set position behind the 3-pt line. Admit it!

How then, are we talking about throwing even TEN million a year for a player that is such an offensive liability?

I’m sure Smart will get a $14 million/yr offer, but it will be from a team like Sacramento or Atlanta who actually REPEL the top free-agents in the league, and have to settle for over-paying the mediocrity of the league.

Sacramento already has Fox and Hield.  Atlanta could be a possible destination if Schroeder is traded

I think the Magic for some reason will pursue Smart. Along with Thomas
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Emmette Bryant on May 28, 2018, 02:00:56 PM
https://twitter.com/byjayking/status/1001140148199976960?s=21
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Th3M2n on May 28, 2018, 02:02:23 PM
More of a chance hell freezes over and Bron becomes the "king of hell" than us giving Smart 14M+....NOT......A.......CHANCE!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 28, 2018, 02:04:24 PM

Celts hope he signs the 1 year QO, but if Smart feels like that won't improve his money making capabilities the season after (BC he will be coming off the bench). 


This is a good point. He was playing big minutes for most of the year and all of the playoffs, and he had some incredible performances (the Harden game, etc.).

His value is at its highest now. Hard to believe he doesn't just sign the best offer he can get.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: libermaniac on May 28, 2018, 02:06:35 PM
Smart is a horrendous shooter. But at 35% on 10 shots a game he’s really only
missing one extra shot a game over a respectable shooter. I think his defense, toughness and opportunistic play more than makes up for that one extra miss. That said, he’s not worth $14 million. To me $10 is more like it.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 28, 2018, 02:07:03 PM
I will say one of the most encouraging things from this series was the way Smart was used out of the post occasionally. He seemed to be effective there. I've long thought that would be the best way to make him a passable offensive threat.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: sdceltsfan on May 28, 2018, 02:15:26 PM
Not sure how anyone who focuses on Smarts “intangible” plays, never realizes that the reality is that his poor shooting percentages and turnovers outweigh the handful of gritty plays he makes to create a second chance or steal.

His shooting is that bad, that 9 tomes out of 10, it is a mulligan at best in my eyes. The games that we barely win by because of one or two “Marcus Smart heads up plays” would have been easy wins if the missed/forced shots went to other players who can actually make them consistently.

There isn’t ome Celtics fan out there who doesn’t cringe/shout out loud “Nooooo” every time Smart catches a pass in a set position behind the 3-pt line. Admit it!

How then, are we talking about throwing even TEN million a year for a player that is such an offensive liability?

I’m sure Smart will get a $14 million/yr offer, but it will be from a team like Sacramento or Atlanta who actually REPEL the top free-agents in the league, and have to settle for over-paying the mediocrity of the league.

Sacramento already has Fox and Hield.  Atlanta could be a possible destination if Schroeder is traded

I think the Magic for some reason will pursue Smart. Along with Thomas

I wouldn’t argue that. My point was more that there is no way a contending team is going to pay much more than what we offer him after Ainge initially offers the QO and his agent rejects it.

If the Celtics offer him 2 years at 22, to give him a chance to improve his shooting and get a legit long-term deal, and he goes and takes 3 years at 38 million from Utah, well, good for Marcus. I don’t see anything from his body of work that suggests that we should expect significant improvements to his shooting percentages or form.

In reality though, yeah, I think Orlando is another great example of a bottom feeder with no stars or
current free agent appeal, that can/will be the type of team Smart gets a more “max offer” from. If he takes/gets an offer of 4-years/60 million from ORL, and I’m his agent......shoot im telling him, “If you want to set yourself up for life right now, you better [dang] sign that deal before they change their mind!” If playing for a title or two and building his long-term value in exchange for a home-town discount appeals to him, then I say offer him 2 years $22 million at the most.

Kyries deal expires then, and if Smart truly improves then there is an option to re-sign him and have Rozier locked in if Kyrie tries to up and leave...
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: SparzWizard on May 28, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
https://twitter.com/byjayking/status/1001140148199976960?s=21

Then don't ask for the brinks truck. Haven't you learned your lesson from watching Isaiah Thomas, Marcus?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Kuberski33 on May 28, 2018, 02:27:37 PM
Will this help Danny be comfortable in matching that price point?

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/17/celtics-co-owner-wyc-grousbeck-ready-to/

Quote
For those that were concerned that the frugal Bostonians heading the Boston Celtics front office would be reluctant to pay the price of keeping their deep and talented core in tact, there’s no need. On Wednesday, Celtics co-owner Wycliffe Grousbeck appeared on 98.5 The Sports Hub and, when asked if the Celtics will pay deep into the luxury tax to keep theteam together in the future, said he’s hoping to “pay for performance” and “we are prepared to do whatever it takes to win again”.
We really do have great ownership.  'Fireworks' aside - I don't think Wyc & co get the credit they deserve for putting this organization together.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Bobshot on May 28, 2018, 02:51:07 PM
Frankly, I cringe anytime somebody other than Tatum steps up to the 3P line and bombs a 3.
They really don't have any 3P specialists. That was evident last night. They have guys shooting the 3 who shouldn't be. And that will bite you eventually. They sure did miss Irving last night!

As for Smart, he is Mr Toughness, and worth something for that. I don't think he was the reason they lost last night. It was more Rozier and Brown having poor offensive games. Plus the Coach did not have a good tactical game.

My guess Smart will wind up elsewhere, because Ainge is working on a tight budget and Smart isn't about to take home team discounts.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: td450 on May 28, 2018, 03:07:38 PM
Remember, we have serious draft assets tee'd up the next 3 years, and as others have pointed out, we've reached the phase where other players suddenly want to do cheap one year deals with us to get a shot at a title. We will have talent coming in waves, with discounts built in.

The only way to screw this up is to overpay our second tier players.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: GreenShooter on May 28, 2018, 03:25:49 PM
Remember, we have serious draft assets tee'd up the next 3 years, and as others have pointed out, we've reached the phase where other players suddenly want to do cheap one year deals with us to get a shot at a title. We will have talent coming in waves, with discounts built in.

The only way to screw this up is to overpay our second tier players.
Just curious who some of those players might be (this upcoming year, of course)? This is dependent on Smart & Baynes leaving. We could also trade ScaryTerry. We'll have Morris and Theis as solid contributors and likely Rozier stays if Smart goes. So we have maybe 2 spots open for these talents coming in waves. We just need one wave with two surfers on it for now. Who are the most logical and realistic? Wrong thread maybe, for sure, for this discussion.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: blink on May 28, 2018, 03:30:26 PM
I love smart, and I hope he is back next year.  But I hope it is for the qualifying offer.  We can see how things work out next year by bringing everyone back and then make needed changes the following year when our Sac pick hopefully hits top 5 and then we are forced to consolidate.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: PAOBoston on May 28, 2018, 03:36:59 PM
Outside of a suck bag team like Orlando or Atlanta, I do t see who offers Smart that much money. I guess it could happen but I have my doubts anyone offers that much.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 28, 2018, 03:38:29 PM
There are always Igoudalas, Livingstons, Boguts, JR Smiths, Iman Shumperts, Tristan Thompsons, Mike Millers, Richard Jeffersons, Jason Terry, Caron Butler, Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion ...

And on, and on it goes.

Every championship team has mid-tier players on sizable contracts. The question isn't whether or not we should/will eventually have them.

There are three real questions about that:1) Is Smart a contending team's mid tier player? 2) Do the Celtics have their cornerstones locked in? 3) Are there other players that can fulfill Smart's role in different ways?

Smart's play-making and ball-handling will be absolutely unnecessary on this team next year.
Smart's versatility on defense will be absolutely unnecessary on this team neat year (quite possibly the most versatile team of all time).
Smart's defense will be missed, but with Brown and Tatum blossoming, Hayward coming back, and CBS to find pieces to plug into a 3/d role (Byrd? Ojeleye? etc.), they can make up for pretty much all of his defensive abilities.

The hustle will be missed, but that can be made up for competitive spirit (Brown, Rozier).
The timely plays will be missed, but that can be made up for with high IQ basketball.

He might be a solid mid-tier player to have, but the Cs are overflowing with legit talent. Overpaying is not necessary.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Forza Juventus on May 28, 2018, 03:41:45 PM
No matter what we do we won't have cap room so we should sign him and pay the tax. Last time I checked we don't receive any money in the mail from Wyc if he dodges the tax.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 28, 2018, 03:51:36 PM
Frankly, I cringe anytime somebody other than Tatum steps up to the 3P line and bombs a 3.
They really don't have any 3P specialists. That was evident last night. They have guys shooting the 3 who shouldn't be. And that will bite you eventually. They sure did miss Irving last night!

We were 2nd in the league last year. Horford was top 10 (43%). Brown shot almost 40%. Rozier was excellent (38%) as well.

We have a lot of good shooters. We just missed a lot of shots last night.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 28, 2018, 04:20:55 PM

Celts hope he signs the 1 year QO, but if Smart feels like that won't improve his money making capabilities the season after (BC he will be coming off the bench). 


This is a good point. He was playing big minutes for most of the year and all of the playoffs, and he had some incredible performances (the Harden game, etc.).

His value is at its highest now. Hard to believe he doesn't just sign the best offer he can get.

agree
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Emmette Bryant on May 28, 2018, 04:24:08 PM
https://twitter.com/byjayking/status/1001140148199976960?s=21

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/1001163864145383429
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Beat LA on May 28, 2018, 04:52:06 PM
Smartest business statement Smart could make.  If you didn’t like “back up the Brink’s Truck” you shouldn’t like this.   I don’t like it, but I can’t blame him for it.  Danny knows his limit and I trust him.  If Danny isn’t willing to go high, I hope he can pull off an S&T.   If nothing else, Cs need some tradeable salary if they want to be in the mix for Leonard, Davis, Towns...
Smart brings the brick truck.

Lol, TP ;D. They should put this on the jumbotron whenever he checks into the game ahahaha ;D -

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhcG2rZY79U5rz3ZWK
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 28, 2018, 08:35:12 PM
Marcus Smart: Celtics are "already planning for me to be here."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMSyUdNziv0

Doesn't Marcus know by now....not to trust Danny??

In a month or two..
Smart: Danny I took a little paycut (12.5 million per year) so i can stay. Glad it all worked out
Danny: Marcus you just been just traded.  You will get a chance to start there

Smart: Danny you snake!
Danny: We will miss you too!  ;D
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: JSD on May 28, 2018, 11:37:26 PM
NBA Rumors: Marcus Smart Could Sign Three-Year, $40 Million Offer Sheet With Spurs, ‘HoopsHype’ Suggests

https://www.inquisitr.com/4918271/nba-rumors-marcus-smart-could-sign-three-year-40-million-offer-sheet-with-spurs-hoopshype-suggests/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+google%2FyDYq+%28The+Inquisitr+-+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: gouki88 on May 28, 2018, 11:49:18 PM
NBA Rumors: Marcus Smart Could Sign Three-Year, $40 Million Offer Sheet With Spurs, ‘HoopsHype’ Suggests

https://www.inquisitr.com/4918271/nba-rumors-marcus-smart-could-sign-three-year-40-million-offer-sheet-with-spurs-hoopshype-suggests/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+google%2FyDYq+%28The+Inquisitr+-+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results
Wonder if a sign & trade is on the books. Threaten to match as leverage ;)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: CelticsElite on May 28, 2018, 11:52:29 PM
NBA Rumors: Marcus Smart Could Sign Three-Year, $40 Million Offer Sheet With Spurs, ‘HoopsHype’ Suggests

https://www.inquisitr.com/4918271/nba-rumors-marcus-smart-could-sign-three-year-40-million-offer-sheet-with-spurs-hoopshype-suggests/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+google%2FyDYq+%28The+Inquisitr+-+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results
wow
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: uconnceltic on May 29, 2018, 12:07:46 AM
A very good role player who is not a starter on this team, but is a cog. I would not go over $10 million a year.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Beat LA on May 29, 2018, 12:17:41 AM
NBA Rumors: Marcus Smart Could Sign Three-Year, $40 Million Offer Sheet With Spurs, ‘HoopsHype’ Suggests

https://www.inquisitr.com/4918271/nba-rumors-marcus-smart-could-sign-three-year-40-million-offer-sheet-with-spurs-hoopshype-suggests/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+google%2FyDYq+%28The+Inquisitr+-+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results
wow

Have fun with that, Pop, LOL ::) ;D.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: KGs Knee on May 29, 2018, 12:21:23 AM
If Smart gets that kind of an offer I let him walk and don't think twice about it.

But I don't think Smart is going to get an offer like that, and I think he knows it.  This is probably just his way of trying to create a market that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: GreenEnvy on May 29, 2018, 12:27:21 AM
I almost feel like he would become a better player if he leaves compared to staying, as if maybe he’s too comfortable here and if we don’t match that would be the motivation he needs to become reliable beyond the arc.

I sincerely hope they all learned from this season, the good and the bad. Use it for motivation and it will make winning the championship next season all the more sweeter.

Hayward and Irving know this was a golden opportunity and they will be ready to start the season and more determined than ever.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: libermaniac on May 29, 2018, 12:34:30 AM
NBA Rumors: Marcus Smart Could Sign Three-Year, $40 Million Offer Sheet With Spurs, ‘HoopsHype’ Suggests

https://www.inquisitr.com/4918271/nba-rumors-marcus-smart-could-sign-three-year-40-million-offer-sheet-with-spurs-hoopshype-suggests/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+google%2FyDYq+%28The+Inquisitr+-+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results
wow
That article is 100% speculation.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 29, 2018, 12:54:06 AM
NBA Rumors: Marcus Smart Could Sign Three-Year, $40 Million Offer Sheet With Spurs, ‘HoopsHype’ Suggests

https://www.inquisitr.com/4918271/nba-rumors-marcus-smart-could-sign-three-year-40-million-offer-sheet-with-spurs-hoopshype-suggests/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+google%2FyDYq+%28The+Inquisitr+-+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results
wow
That article is 100% speculation.

Whats next.... horford, brown, rozier for Leonard?

Spurs would then have this years Celtics squad  ;D
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: C3LTSF4N on May 29, 2018, 01:28:21 AM
There’s no way the spurs are looking for a starting backcourt of Marcus Smart and Dejounte Murray.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on May 29, 2018, 01:51:58 AM
I think Danny would match a 3 year, $40mil offer.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: celtsrp33 on May 29, 2018, 02:24:42 AM
Gonezo
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: LGC88 on May 29, 2018, 02:57:51 AM
I honestly don't think Smart is in the future picture anymore.
Danny and Brad obviously shift to SIZE type of play.
Irving is the exception because he's just the best handler in the planet and a proven scorer.
Other than that, the team will be 6'7 to 7ft switchable big that can run the floor defend perimeter shoot 3s and can post in the paint or make layups. That's the recipe to win a title nowadays.
Smart is just not good enough in offense.
If Danny takes a small combo/guard, it will be for bench scoring or very small ball transition oriented BB (like what Spurs have with Mills e.g.)
Unless it's below 10mil a year, I think Smart is gone. Same as Rozier after next season probably.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Androslav on May 29, 2018, 03:32:27 AM
I honestly don't think Smart is in the future picture anymore.
Danny and Brad obviously shift to SIZE type of play.
Irving is the exception because he's just the best handler in the planet and a proven scorer.
Other than that, the team will be 6'7 to 7ft switchable big that can run the floor defend perimeter shoot 3s and can post in the paint or make layups. That's the recipe to win a title nowadays.
Smart is just not good enough in offense.
If Danny takes a small combo/guard, it will be for bench scoring or very small ball transition oriented BB (like what Spurs have with Mills e.g.)
Unless it's below 10mil a year, I think Smart is gone. Same as Rozier after next season probably.
Smart is unnecessary for us to have to win the chip, that is the bottom line.
He is not a starter level of player. Even though he can play like one majority of the time. His athleticism and shooting don't suggest major improvements as well.

I would sign him to a friendly deal if I could. To have him in case of injuries and to have a mid-size contract if a trade opportunity arrives. But I would also look to trade him within a year.

Rozier is our Mills, PG shooter that doesn't need to start. At least ATM he is.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on May 29, 2018, 03:52:07 AM
https://twitter.com/byjayking/status/1001140148199976960?s=21

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/1001163864145383429

I wouldn't say that means anything, IT4 and AB could be heard saying similar things right b4 being traded a week or so prior.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: SparzWizard on May 29, 2018, 03:53:49 AM
https://twitter.com/byjayking/status/1001140148199976960?s=21

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/1001163864145383429

I wouldn't say that means anything, IT4 and AB could be heard saying similar things right b4 being traded a week or so prior.

It means he is GONE. G-O-N-E. Danny Ainge is a sneaky one.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 29, 2018, 12:34:02 PM
Gonezo

sounds like it
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: PhoSita on May 29, 2018, 12:40:20 PM
He'll take his qualifying offer and then we'll see what offers he can get next summer.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: IDreamCeltics on May 29, 2018, 12:45:18 PM
I've been saying this for like three years, the Celtics aren't resigning Smart. 

Unfortunately he got injured at the worst possible time this year which prevented him from being tradable.

He'd be ideal playing next to Russell Westbrook or some other Ball Dominant guard who can carry an offense and just needs defenders around him.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: green_bballers13 on May 29, 2018, 01:16:06 PM
The Celtics are one of the most talented teams in the NBA. There are probably 26 teams that are worse than the Celtics that should be willing to overpay Smart.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 29, 2018, 01:22:13 PM
He'll take his qualifying offer and then we'll see what offers he can get next summer.
Yup.

He'll either end up with the QO or some sort of compromise short term contract is my guess. I don't think he ends up getting an offer sheet that he's happy with.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: azzenfrost on May 29, 2018, 01:46:47 PM
Sign him at whatever price the market dictates. If it's on the high side, flip him.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: kozlodoev on May 29, 2018, 02:02:27 PM
The Celtics are one of the most talented teams in the NBA. There are probably 26 teams that are worse than the Celtics that should be willing to overpay Smart.
And not all of those 26 teams will actually be able to pay him under salary cap rules. Not to mention that defensive one-trick ponies like Smart don't move the needle for truly awful teams that need go-to guys.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 29, 2018, 02:14:27 PM
How many teams are desperate for a guy like Smart?

Spurs, Hawks, Grizzlies ... there is a nice list.   While the Celts have an eye to make the finals, these teams would want nothing more than to make the playoffs and get past the 1st round.   Smart is the type of player/character that can help

Instead of overpaying for an ok talent like Otto Porter 20 plus million.   Its probably a safer investment to pay Smart 15 million for 3 years (maybe even 4 if it comes down to it).

I just can't see Danny/Wyc paying this to a "glue" guy when you have to worry about paying Kyrie, Brown (likely near max), Tatum (max) sooner than later .... plus need to worry about bringing back important pieces like Baynes etc

This is why Horford and his salary is tough is to swallow.  It means if affects to resign secondary/semi starting pieces like Smart, Rozier. 

At the end of the day

Celtics:  We will give 75 percent of what the market can.  Can you stay?  you are an important piece

Smart/Rozier:  So while you guys  are generous to pay/overpay Horford etc.   (and I think I'm just as important)  I have to take a paycut?  ...  thanks for everything, but I'm leaving.  Might be one of my last chance to obtain top dollars in my career.   

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: green_bballers13 on May 29, 2018, 03:04:55 PM

Celtics:  We will give 75 percent of what the market can.  Can you stay?  you are an important piece

Smart/Rozier:  So while you guys  are generous to pay/overpay Horford etc.   (and I think I'm just as important)  I have to take a paycut?  ...  thanks for everything, but I'm leaving.  Might be one of my last chance to obtain top dollars in my career.

This seems accurate. I'm not sure about the actual #s, but I have to think that there are a couple of teams out there that will outspend the Celtics for Smart.

The Celtics shouldn't overpay Smart, and Smart shouldn't take a discount. He's young enough that he can make his money now then sign on with a contender after his next contract.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: bknova on May 29, 2018, 03:16:52 PM

Celtics:  We will give 75 percent of what the market can.  Can you stay?  you are an important piece

Smart/Rozier:  So while you guys  are generous to pay/overpay Horford etc.   (and I think I'm just as important)  I have to take a paycut?  ...  thanks for everything, but I'm leaving.  Might be one of my last chance to obtain top dollars in my career.

This seems accurate. I'm not sure about the actual #s, but I have to think that there are a couple of teams out there that will outspend the Celtics for Smart.

The Celtics shouldn't overpay Smart, and Smart shouldn't take a discount. He's young enough that he can make his money now then sign on with a contender after his next contract.

Young guys always take the money.  Very few players get multiple big contracts.  Hometown discounts are given by veterans who place happiness and contentment over money, or who've already banked their cash.  Young guys go for the money.  Always.  Smart, Rozier will chase the money. Turner did, even though he played his best ball under Brad. 

Brown will. Tatum will.  The difference being that Ainge will match or just offer the max to these two.  The other two, they're gonna go for the money.  Even if its from the Kings or Nets.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 29, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
delete
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 29, 2018, 03:44:41 PM
The project cap/tax for next year is:

$101 million salary cap, $123 million for luxury tax.

I doubt there is a drop due to fewer playoff games like last year, both conference finals went to 7 games and were highly rated.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 29, 2018, 03:48:08 PM
The project cap/tax for next year is:

$101 million salary cap, $123 million for luxury tax.

I doubt there is a drop due to fewer playoff games like last year, both conference finals went to 7 games and were highly rated.

thanks. Yeah I meant luxury tax
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on May 29, 2018, 03:50:16 PM
I d hate to see him on the Heat
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 29, 2018, 03:52:50 PM
I d hate to see him on the Heat

or 76ers, or Bucks

If he leaves, hope he goes west
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: GreenEnvy on May 29, 2018, 03:54:29 PM
I’d rather not lose Smart for nothing. Even if that means resigning him at more than we are comfortable with and then packaging him midway through the season, we probably should.

Also depends on what we do with our pick, if we can get someone like DiVincenzo (doubt it) then maybe he could step in and fill that role as backup SG.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 29, 2018, 03:58:18 PM
Quote
If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92). A restricted free agent's resulting contract (whether with the new team or the contract is matched by the player's prior team) cannot be amended in any manner for one year.
It is unlikely we can trade smart for a full year because of this provision.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: GreenEnvy on May 29, 2018, 04:00:32 PM
Quote
If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92). A restricted free agent's resulting contract (whether with the new team or the contract is matched by the player's prior team) cannot be amended in any manner for one year.
It is unlikely we can trade smart for a full year because of this provision.

But that’s only if he is matched, if we just resign him we can trade him what, December 15?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Fafnir on May 29, 2018, 04:02:01 PM
Yes that is only if an offer sheet is matched.

Also if he takes the QO he can also refuse any trade as well.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: saltlover on May 29, 2018, 04:18:00 PM
I’m coming out from under my rock to say that the Pacers could give Smart a 4-year deal in the $60-72 million range that both might make sense for them and be very difficult for the Celtics to match.

And now I’m going back under my rock.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: kozlodoev on May 29, 2018, 04:43:29 PM
I’m coming out from under my rock to say that the Pacers could give Smart a 4-year deal in the $60-72 million range that both might make sense for them and be very difficult for the Celtics to match.

And now I’m going back under my rock.
If Indiana comes out and offers him a whooping $18 million per season, I don't think there will be much of a conversation about whether he's staying or going.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Monkhouse on May 29, 2018, 05:15:28 PM
I’m coming out from under my rock to say that the Pacers could give Smart a 4-year deal in the $60-72 million range that both might make sense for them and be very difficult for the Celtics to match.

And now I’m going back under my rock.

Come back out.

And if IND offers anything more than 15+ million, well.. Love you Smart, will greatly miss you, but bye! :( :(  :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: Beat LA on May 29, 2018, 05:44:08 PM
I’m coming out from under my rock to say that the Pacers could give Smart a 4-year deal in the $60-72 million range that both might make sense for them and be very difficult for the Celtics to match.

And now I’m going back under my rock.

Well, it does tend to be cooler, there, in the summer ;D.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: liam on May 29, 2018, 11:02:21 PM
Iggy got from Golden State 3 year / $48,000,000. Seems like a lot but for a contender. If Smart could hit that corner 3 like Iggy he might be worth it. Smart takes a lot of long threes from the top but should mainly be shooting from the corners.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 29, 2018, 11:08:19 PM
I can see the Celts offering 10, 11, 12 million 3 year deal

Smart is likely looking for 15 average per season. 

Danny offers the above, Smart says no.  Danny signs him to a qualifying offer then goes from there

If another team offers 14 + .....  I can't see Danny matching. Wyc won't pay luxury tax for a super role player like Smart

Smart could be the 1st key (or semi key) player Danny loses for nothing.   AB with 1 year remaining - traded.  KG/PP with minimal years remaining - traded.  Rondo with 1 year remaining -traded.    IT4 with 1 year remaining - traded.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 30, 2018, 01:54:13 AM
It doesn’t matter what he thinks he’s worth at this time. It’s what the market thinks he’s worth. His thinking might also lead to him turning down smaller offers or him signing the qualifying offer.

Well said.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: wiley on May 30, 2018, 11:25:56 AM
If Irving and Hayward are going to be healthy longterm C's,  Smart is quite perfect on this team...
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: Monkhouse on May 30, 2018, 11:32:01 AM
If Irving and Hayward are going to be healthy longterm C's,  Smart is quite perfect on this team...


I agree. I love Brown, and he's going to be a huge contributor for our team. But ideally, you can slot Smart with the starting or bench unit, and he would still do remarkably well. I think Brown is better off starting, so it complicates issues, even though I think he could certainly feast on 2nd units.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: trickybilly on May 30, 2018, 11:56:50 AM
Is anyone willing to believe that Marcus still has room to develop a better three point shot? Or is it time to give up on that dream?

Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: Tr1boy on May 30, 2018, 12:00:49 PM
Is anyone willing to believe that Marcus still has room to develop a better three point shot? Or is it time to give up on that dream?

Lol

He is done developing
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: Monkhouse on May 30, 2018, 12:01:09 PM
Is anyone willing to believe that Marcus still has room to develop a better three point shot? Or is it time to give up on that dream?

Only real notable examples would be Kawhi and Patty Mills. Players who both didn't shoot well into their early seasons, and were meh in college.

I think at this point, Smart can be like Billups/JR. Smith, in that he'll always be up and down as a streaky shooter.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: PickNRoll on May 30, 2018, 12:04:19 PM
Is anyone willing to believe that Marcus still has room to develop a better three point shot? Or is it time to give up on that dream?
It's time to stop caring.  Are we worried about Kyrie's rebounding?  Are we worried that Tom Brady can't tackle?  Worried about Steph Curry's questionable goatee?  No.  They're bada$s winners, like Marcus, and it's irrelevant.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: PickNRoll on May 30, 2018, 12:07:21 PM
I can see the Celts offering 10, 11, 12 million 3 year deal

Smart is likely looking for 15 average per season. 

Danny offers the above, Smart says no.  Danny signs him to a qualifying offer then goes from there

If another team offers 14 + .....  I can't see Danny matching. Wyc won't pay luxury tax for a super role player like Smart

Smart could be the 1st key (or semi key) player Danny loses for nothing.   AB with 1 year remaining - traded.  KG/PP with minimal years remaining - traded.  Rondo with 1 year remaining -traded.    IT4 with 1 year remaining - traded.
I agree with this analysis, but I hope we keep him.  I think Smart would be foolish to part with Stevens over a couple million.  Smart's talent is fully realized in Steven's system and that's not a guarantee with most coaches.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: Boise To Boston on May 31, 2018, 12:32:44 PM
Great point.  If you look at the teams with Cap Space - the only place I see looking to sign him for $14m per year would be Indiana.  With the cap as flat as it's been - there just isn't room for most teams (including any contender) to sign him.  I think we end up getting him at 4 for $40m.

It doesn’t matter what he thinks he’s worth at this time. It’s what the market thinks he’s worth. His thinking might also lead to him turning down smaller offers or him signing the qualifying offer. So it might lead to a Nerlens Noel type of situation. I’d love to retain him because IMO he’s the heart and soul of this team.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on May 31, 2018, 12:37:32 PM
he may be disappointed
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: kozlodoev on May 31, 2018, 12:39:02 PM
Great point.  If you look at the teams with Cap Space - the only place I see looking to sign him for $14m per year would be Indiana.  With the cap as flat as it's been - there just isn't room for most teams (including any contender) to sign him.  I think we end up getting him at 4 for $40m.

It doesn’t matter what he thinks he’s worth at this time. It’s what the market thinks he’s worth. His thinking might also lead to him turning down smaller offers or him signing the qualifying offer. So it might lead to a Nerlens Noel type of situation. I’d love to retain him because IMO he’s the heart and soul of this team.
Or he will take the QO and take his chances next season.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: Boise To Boston on May 31, 2018, 01:00:32 PM
Great point.  With the Cap only going from $99m in '17 to $101m in '18 and then jumping to $108m next year, I bet we see a lot of guys sign qualifying offers to take advantage of the influx of cash that teams will have in 2019.

Great point.  If you look at the teams with Cap Space - the only place I see looking to sign him for $14m per year would be Indiana.  With the cap as flat as it's been - there just isn't room for most teams (including any contender) to sign him.  I think we end up getting him at 4 for $40m.

It doesn’t matter what he thinks he’s worth at this time. It’s what the market thinks he’s worth. His thinking might also lead to him turning down smaller offers or him signing the qualifying offer. So it might lead to a Nerlens Noel type of situation. I’d love to retain him because IMO he’s the heart and soul of this team.
Or he will take the QO and take his chances next season.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: cman88 on May 31, 2018, 08:36:12 PM
Is anyone willing to believe that Marcus still has room to develop a better three point shot? Or is it time to give up on that dream?

at this point, I think his shooting is what it is. He really hasnt improved in that aspect at all in his years in the NBA.

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on June 01, 2018, 06:15:01 AM
(https://m.popkey.co/219d6d/5jjeN.gif)

You know what happened to Curly Bill after that...............and I could see Marcus on another team getting ready to face Boston in the playoffs at some point in the future saying, "You tell the Celtics that I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me !!"
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 01, 2018, 06:59:03 AM
Quote
"You tell the Celtics that I'm comin' and Hell's comin' with me !!

And then we would slack off him and watch him miss shots...
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: dreamgreen on June 01, 2018, 08:21:46 AM
Someone needs to reach out to Smart ASAP. Apparently he never got the memo "crack kills"!!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: droopdog7 on June 01, 2018, 11:20:28 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: celts55 on June 01, 2018, 11:26:13 AM
Is anyone willing to believe that Marcus still has room to develop a better three point shot? Or is it time to give up on that dream?

at this point, I think his shooting is what it is. He really hasnt improved in that aspect at all in his years in the NBA.

I'm not so sure. He appeared to be shooting the ball better earlier in the year. Than he punched a mirror, and injured this thumb diving for a ball after that. I have to think these hand injuries didn't help his shot.
I'm certainly not saying he will improve, but I believe it's possible.
On the bright side, he can't get any worse.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Monkhouse on June 01, 2018, 12:47:38 PM
Quote
“I think that everybody is replaceable,” Ainge said Thursday. “If there was ever a situation with a team where guys would know that, it would be this team that just went through what we went through this year. We’re all replaceable, and we’ll be able to move on and move forward without any players. Nobody is irreplaceable, but Marcus certainly is a player that has been big for us over the last few years.”

 The Celtics can make a qualifying offer worth about $6.1 million to Smart. They also can match any free agent offer that is made by another team. It’ll be interesting to see how the market shakes out for his services, seeing as much of his impact is difficult to quantify. But Ainge had no problem with Smart pumping up his own value immediately after Boston was eliminated from the NBA playoffs. “I wouldn’t, but a lot of players do, so it’s his prerogative,” Ainge said. “Just simply he’s got a million cameras in front of him, a bunch of mics. It’s not like he’s coming out and saying, ‘Hey, I need this.’ Someone was asking that question and was persisting on like, ‘Well, what do you think you’re worth?’ And he just answered it in his honest opinion.”

“We need Marcus. Marcus is a good player,” Ainge said Thursday on 98.5 The Sports Hub’s “Toucher and Rich.” “He provides a lot of energy for our team and I hope that we can work something out going forward.” Ainge also is realistic, though. And while he’ll be the first to acknowledge Smart’s importance to the Celtics over the last four seasons, he understands the NBA landscape and what it takes to build a contender while managing payroll.

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2018/05/danny-ainge-hopeful-realistic-about-marcus-smarts-future-with-celtics/

Danny Ainge seemed very honest in his interview. I think we all know what he's saying. We lose our defensive identity without Smart. We need Smart and Horford. They are the soul, and Horford is the heart/engine that keeps us moving to contest and make the right plays.

Is anyone willing to believe that Marcus still has room to develop a better three point shot? Or is it time to give up on that dream?

at this point, I think his shooting is what it is. He really hasnt improved in that aspect at all in his years in the NBA.

I'm not so sure. He appeared to be shooting the ball better earlier in the year. Than he punched a mirror, and injured this thumb diving for a ball after that. I have to think these hand injuries didn't help his shot.
I'm certainly not saying he will improve, but I believe it's possible.
On the bright side, he can't get any worse.

I agree, I don't think he's ever going to be a great shooter. His form and motion looks way better, and there isn't that weird hitch. I think he'll have those 30-35% up and down seasons where he'll shoot great, and sometimes he'll shoot terrible.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Bobshot on June 01, 2018, 09:53:09 PM
Considering ESPN never waxes positive about any Boston team, I'll take these "quotes" with a grain or two of salt. Is Jackie still pushing Potopenko?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart at $12-$14 million per year?
Post by: SparzWizard on June 01, 2018, 10:52:59 PM
Is anyone willing to believe that Marcus still has room to develop a better three point shot? Or is it time to give up on that dream?

Lol

He is done developing

Yup he's been here since 2014. He's only good for his defensive intensity. Forget about his 3-point shot. He better start driving into the hoop more while getting hit or hammered.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: CelticsElite on June 01, 2018, 11:17:24 PM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: liam on June 02, 2018, 01:04:49 AM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?

Could Rodman shoot at all?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Beat LA on June 02, 2018, 01:06:05 AM
Quote
“I think that everybody is replaceable,” Ainge said Thursday.

We know ::).
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: SparzWizard on June 02, 2018, 01:21:46 AM
Quote
“I think that everybody is replaceable,” Ainge said Thursday.

We know ::).

Get ready for your hearts when he ships Tatum out for Kawhi Leonard!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Beat LA on June 02, 2018, 02:18:35 AM
Quote
“I think that everybody is replaceable,” Ainge said Thursday.

We know ::).

Get ready for your hearts when he ships Tatum out for Kawhi Leonard!

I don't feel anything, anymore, lol ;D.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: gouki88 on June 02, 2018, 03:33:18 AM
Quote
“I think that everybody is replaceable,” Ainge said Thursday.

We know ::).

Get ready for your hearts when he ships Tatum out for Kawhi Leonard!
Don't you joke about this you monster ;D

Brown for Leonard I could at least fathom. But not Tatum... never Tatum
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Androslav on June 02, 2018, 05:13:19 AM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Our old friend Tony Allen.
Wings that defend like hell, both were drafted and played like true Celtics, none can shoot, similar lenght measurements.
Smart can dribble and pass, while Tony was much more explosive. Still, they have a lot of similarities.
Hopefully we can sign and trade Marcus for that Memphis pick. That would add another similarity and that's where I stand now regarding Marcus.

My take is that unless you resign Marcus at a market favourable contract, you find a way to S&T him, if not then Q. offer.
The logic behind is that Marcus started just 4 games this playoffs, making him a 6th man on an ECF team that lacks GH and Kyrie. In my book that makes him 8th best player on this team and IMO, the 8th best player is worth at max a non taxpayers MLE, around 8 mil $.

One other thing, CBS makes all his players better so we might see even a worse Marcus Smart offensively on some other team. Similarly, I am sure that Brad could use the surplus of the newly found offense enough to cover for Smarts plus defense.

I love Smart, but we have bigger fish to fry.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: gouki88 on June 02, 2018, 05:59:41 AM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Our old friend Tony Allen.
My main problem with this is that TA was really good at picking his spots with us. Around 48% from the field with very little 3’s attempted.

Marcus on the other hand has never averaged less than 4 3PA’s a game, while amazingly never shooting as well as he did in his rookie year (nailing a gruesome .301% this year).
If Marcus was efficient and knew his spots like TA I’d like him so much more
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 02, 2018, 06:46:25 AM
Ill say DA might go,10 , and he ll hit the road other wise
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: trickybilly on June 02, 2018, 07:04:32 AM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Our old friend Tony Allen.
My main problem with this is that TA was really good at picking his spots with us. Around 48% from the field with very little 3’s attempted.

Marcus on the other hand has never averaged less than 4 3PA’s a game, while amazingly never shooting as well as he did in his rookie year (nailing a gruesome .301% this year).
If Marcus was efficient and knew his spots like TA I’d like him so much more

This is the point. Nowadays wings/ball handlers HAVE to be at least respectable from outside. TA would really struggle if his career was starting in 2018... he would be lucky to get a contract frankly (much as I love TA, and he will remain a C's legend)

This is also why the "Does Tom Brady do X" argument seems spurious. There have been no HUGE developments in the role of a quarterback for 20 years, and there are still many non-running guys running around. The spike in threes in the NBA is nothing short of new-era..
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on June 02, 2018, 08:01:59 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
 
I know you wanted to assume the entire team came back, but I really think we need to assume Baynes is gone.  I don’t see the Celtics wanting to go more than a season with him, and going one season means he can veto any mid-season trade, which is a situation the Ainge likes to avoid when possible.  If Smart’s situation gets resolved quickly, it’s possible they could bring Baynes back, but Marcus I’m sure is the top free agent priority, and as a restricted free agent, his situation could take a month or more to resolve, by which time Baynes will have been off the market for some time.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: gouki88 on June 02, 2018, 08:08:47 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on June 02, 2018, 08:35:09 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D


Man that is some good stuff. Can we replace Nader with a rack of balls? The +/- for bringing a ball rack into the game would be better IMO. ;D
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: dreamgreen on June 02, 2018, 08:35:47 AM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Our old friend Tony Allen.
My main problem with this is that TA was really good at picking his spots with us. Around 48% from the field with very little 3’s attempted.

Marcus on the other hand has never averaged less than 4 3PA’s a game, while amazingly never shooting as well as he did in his rookie year (nailing a gruesome .301% this year).
If Marcus was efficient and knew his spots like TA I’d like him so much more

I think Tony Allen is a good comparison and honestly I was so glad to see him go. He was a total train wreck, I can still see him dribbling the ball off his foot to this day!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: IDreamCeltics on June 02, 2018, 09:09:54 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
 
I know you wanted to assume the entire team came back, but I really think we need to assume Baynes is gone.  I don’t see the Celtics wanting to go more than a season with him, and going one season means he can veto any mid-season trade, which is a situation the Ainge likes to avoid when possible.  If Smart’s situation gets resolved quickly, it’s possible they could bring Baynes back, but Marcus I’m sure is the top free agent priority, and as a restricted free agent, his situation could take a month or more to resolve, by which time Baynes will have been off the market for some time.

When you put it like that it's quite obvious that the Celtics' aren't resigning Smart for any amount of money... In no universe can a contender afford to pay Smart 10 million a year... Let alone 15 million to shoot below 30% from three on high volume...


Even 6-8 mill a year for "Energy" players is a lot... 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: cman88 on June 02, 2018, 09:38:11 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
 
I know you wanted to assume the entire team came back, but I really think we need to assume Baynes is gone.  I don’t see the Celtics wanting to go more than a season with him, and going one season means he can veto any mid-season trade, which is a situation the Ainge likes to avoid when possible.  If Smart’s situation gets resolved quickly, it’s possible they could bring Baynes back, but Marcus I’m sure is the top free agent priority, and as a restricted free agent, his situation could take a month or more to resolve, by which time Baynes will have been off the market for some time.

When you put it like that it's quite obvious that the Celtics' aren't resigning Smart for any amount of money... In no universe can a contender afford to pay Smart 10 million a year... Let alone 15 million to shoot below 30% from three on high volume...


Even 6-8 mill a year for "Energy" players is a lot...

well, igoadala makes 11million and I would say he plays a similar role to smart.  we really need to keep one of smart/rozier to keep Kyries minutes down in the regular season and to spell the bench.

I think the hardest question is, do you pay someone like smart 15million who is going to most likely be on the bench in crunch time this year. And if hes not on the bench how can you sit someone like Kyrie/brown/tatum/hayward/Horford for smart?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Phantom255x on June 02, 2018, 09:45:27 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
 
I know you wanted to assume the entire team came back, but I really think we need to assume Baynes is gone.  I don’t see the Celtics wanting to go more than a season with him, and going one season means he can veto any mid-season trade, which is a situation the Ainge likes to avoid when possible.  If Smart’s situation gets resolved quickly, it’s possible they could bring Baynes back, but Marcus I’m sure is the top free agent priority, and as a restricted free agent, his situation could take a month or more to resolve, by which time Baynes will have been off the market for some time.

When you put it like that it's quite obvious that the Celtics' aren't resigning Smart for any amount of money... In no universe can a contender afford to pay Smart 10 million a year... Let alone 15 million to shoot below 30% from three on high volume...


Even 6-8 mill a year for "Energy" players is a lot...

well, igoadala makes 11million and I would say he plays a similar role to smart.  we really need to keep one of smart/rozier to keep Kyries minutes down in the regular season and to spell the bench.

I think the hardest question is, do you pay someone like smart 15million who is going to most likely be on the bench in crunch time this year. And if hes not on the bench how can you sit someone like Kyrie/brown/tatum/hayward/Horford for smart?

I look at Roberson making 3/30M and think the C's should offer Smart maybe 4 years, 44M.

Give him the QO obviously, but say you're willing to do 10-12M/Year.

Maybe also structure the deal so that it pays something like 9-10M the first year (so we avoid the tax just next year before we all but start paying it in the 2019-2020 season). It's like Roberson who made 9M the 1st year, and projects to make like 11M the 3rd year of the deal. Something like that.

My biggest concern is a team like Indiana clears the cap necessary and offers Smart something like 16-18M/Year, in which case he's gone for good. Then we got to re-sign Baynes and look for another depth guard (maybe draft or trade).
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Ogaju on June 02, 2018, 10:53:48 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D

Saltlover back after Cs elimination from playoffs, Danny is that you?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: gouki88 on June 02, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D

Saltlover back after Cs elimination from playoffs, Danny is that you?
Some may say it's a coincidence. I think not ;)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 02, 2018, 11:00:34 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
 
I know you wanted to assume the entire team came back, but I really think we need to assume Baynes is gone.  I don’t see the Celtics wanting to go more than a season with him, and going one season means he can veto any mid-season trade, which is a situation the Ainge likes to avoid when possible.  If Smart’s situation gets resolved quickly, it’s possible they could bring Baynes back, but Marcus I’m sure is the top free agent priority, and as a restricted free agent, his situation could take a month or more to resolve, by which time Baynes will have been off the market for some time.

When you put it like that it's quite obvious that the Celtics' aren't resigning Smart for any amount of money... In no universe can a contender afford to pay Smart 10 million a year... Let alone 15 million to shoot below 30% from three on high volume...


Even 6-8 mill a year for "Energy" players is a lot...

well, igoadala makes 11million and I would say he plays a similar role to smart.  we really need to keep one of smart/rozier to keep Kyries minutes down in the regular season and to spell the bench.

I think the hardest question is, do you pay someone like smart 15million who is going to most likely be on the bench in crunch time this year. And if hes not on the bench how can you sit someone like Kyrie/brown/tatum/hayward/Horford for smart?
Iguadola's contract is 14.8M, 16M, 17.1M.  Durant signed for 25M so they could keep Iggy.  Smart and Iggy may play a similar role but Iggy is a lot harder for GSW to replace.  Iggy was in high demand.  Houston wanted him.  Per Redick, he was given 20 minutes to decide on the 1yr/23M deal or the Sixers would offer it to Iggy.  I don't expect there to be that much interest in Smart.  I wouldn't go much more than 3yr/30M for Smart. 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: tazzmaniac on June 02, 2018, 11:29:28 AM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D

Saltlover back after Cs elimination from playoffs, Danny is that you?
Some may say it's a coincidence. I think not ;)
Good thought.  Saltlover certainly has more GM acumen than most everyone on here.  However a quick search didn't show any posts defending taking Olynyk over Giannis or any posts expounding on the virtues of Chipotle.   
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on June 02, 2018, 01:03:14 PM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D

Saltlover back after Cs elimination from playoffs, Danny is that you?
Some may say it's a coincidence. I think not ;)
Good thought.  Saltlover certainly has more GM acumen than most everyone on here.  However a quick search didn't show any posts defending taking Olynyk over Giannis or any posts expounding on the virtues of Chipotle.   

I sold my stock in Chipotle a couple months ago.  Before then I didn’t feel it appropriate to extol its virtues in public without a disclaimer.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on June 02, 2018, 01:23:19 PM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D

Saltlover back after Cs elimination from playoffs, Danny is that you?
Some may say it's a coincidence. I think not ;)
Good thought.  Saltlover certainly has more GM acumen than most everyone on here.  However a quick search didn't show any posts defending taking Olynyk over Giannis or any posts expounding on the virtues of Chipotle.   

I sold my stock in Chipotle a couple months ago.  Before then I didn’t feel it appropriate to extol its virtues in public without a disclaimer.

how bad of a record will the kings have next year  :P
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: hwangjini_1 on June 02, 2018, 01:28:34 PM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D

Saltlover back after Cs elimination from playoffs, Danny is that you?
Some may say it's a coincidence. I think not ;)
Good thought.  Saltlover certainly has more GM acumen than most everyone on here.  However a quick search didn't show any posts defending taking Olynyk over Giannis or any posts expounding on the virtues of Chipotle.   

I sold my stock in Chipotle a couple months ago.  Before then I didn’t feel it appropriate to extol its virtues in public without a disclaimer.
sigh. and here i had thought it was simply a matter of good taste.  ;)

p.s. good to see you back. hope you are well.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Ogaju on June 02, 2018, 01:38:31 PM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D

Saltlover back after Cs elimination from playoffs, Danny is that you?
Some may say it's a coincidence. I think not ;)
Good thought.  Saltlover certainly has more GM acumen than most everyone on here.  However a quick search didn't show any posts defending taking Olynyk over Giannis or any posts expounding on the virtues of Chipotle.   

I sold my stock in Chipotle a couple months ago.  Before then I didn’t feel it appropriate to extol its virtues in public without a disclaimer.
sigh. and here i had thought it was simply a matter of good taste.  ;)

p.s. good to see you back. hope you are well.

Ditto, nice to see Saltlover the resident captologist back. :)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 02, 2018, 01:39:55 PM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
 
I know you wanted to assume the entire team came back, but I really think we need to assume Baynes is gone.  I don’t see the Celtics wanting to go more than a season with him, and going one season means he can veto any mid-season trade, which is a situation the Ainge likes to avoid when possible.  If Smart’s situation gets resolved quickly, it’s possible they could bring Baynes back, but Marcus I’m sure is the top free agent priority, and as a restricted free agent, his situation could take a month or more to resolve, by which time Baynes will have been off the market for some time.

When you put it like that it's quite obvious that the Celtics' aren't resigning Smart for any amount of money... In no universe can a contender afford to pay Smart 10 million a year... Let alone 15 million to shoot below 30% from three on high volume...


Even 6-8 mill a year for "Energy" players is a lot...

well, igoadala makes 11million and I would say he plays a similar role to smart.  we really need to keep one of smart/rozier to keep Kyries minutes down in the regular season and to spell the bench.

I think the hardest question is, do you pay someone like smart 15million who is going to most likely be on the bench in crunch time this year. And if hes not on the bench how can you sit someone like Kyrie/brown/tatum/hayward/Horford for smart?

I look at Roberson making 3/30M and think the C's should offer Smart maybe 4 years, 44M.

Give him the QO obviously, but say you're willing to do 10-12M/Year.

Maybe also structure the deal so that it pays something like 9-10M the first year (so we avoid the tax just next year before we all but start paying it in the 2019-2020 season). It's like Roberson who made 9M the 1st year, and projects to make like 11M the 3rd year of the deal. Something like that.

My biggest concern is a team like Indiana clears the cap necessary and offers Smart something like 16-18M/Year, in which case he's gone for good. Then we got to re-sign Baynes and look for another depth guard (maybe draft or trade).


I can see danny doing 4 years  for 44 ....that maybe the max tho
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Beat LA on June 02, 2018, 07:39:25 PM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Our old friend Tony Allen.
My main problem with this is that TA was really good at picking his spots with us. Around 48% from the field with very little 3’s attempted.

Marcus on the other hand has never averaged less than 4 3PA’s a game, while amazingly never shooting as well as he did in his rookie year (nailing a gruesome .301% this year).
If Marcus was efficient and knew his spots like TA I’d like him so much more

I think Tony Allen is a good comparison and honestly I was so glad to see him go. He was a total train wreck, I can still see him dribbling the ball off his foot to this day!

Same. Dude was a total bonehead. Ugh.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Beat LA on June 02, 2018, 07:41:17 PM
This may have been answered already here but I am curious about the tax issues.  Assuming the entire team came back, what is the number (in terms of dollars) that we can also have Smart on the team and avoid whatever tax situation we would prefer to avoid this year?  And is the number is not exact, what is the ballpark number?

Thanks.

There’s no exact number yet, because the tax line is not official.  The estimate going around is $123 million, but it could easily deviate +/- $1 million from that, which would obviously have an impact.  Another factor to consider is whether or not the Celtics would be willing to leave an open roster spot to avoid the tax.  They probably would, but given all the injuries they had last year, they might be a bit leery of that idea.

But let’s assume the following:

1) No trades are made
2) The luxury tax is $123 million on the nose
3) The salary cap is $101 million on the nose (this helps calculate the salary of our draft pick, because the slot value now increases proportionally with the cap)
4) We go with a 14-man roster
5) We sign Jabari Bird to an NBA deal at the rookie minimum in year 1
6) We let all free agents walk, and keep all the non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed guys (Theis, Nader, Ojeleye).

This would leave the Celtics with $12,928,129 of space before they hit the luxury tax.  With that, they could sign him to a 4-year deal that pays up to $57,918,286, or a 5-year deal that pays up to $74,983,495 and stay under the tax this season.

People can adjust the number accordingly as they see fit based on the above assumptions.  I think it will be a little lower, myself, as I think the luxury tax comes in closer to $122 million than $123 million.  But I think the above is a perfectly reasonable starting point for a maximum amount they could offer Smart while avoiding the tax.
I'm glad saltlover is back! No longer clueless about the cap sometimes ;D

Saltlover back after Cs elimination from playoffs, Danny is that you?
Some may say it's a coincidence. I think not ;)
Good thought.  Saltlover certainly has more GM acumen than most everyone on here.  However a quick search didn't show any posts defending taking Olynyk over Giannis or any posts expounding on the virtues of Chipotle.

I sold my stock in Chipotle a couple months ago.  Before then I didn’t feel it appropriate to extol its virtues in public without a disclaimer.
sigh. and here i had thought it was simply a matter of good taste.  ;)

p.s. good to see you back. hope you are well.

Ditto, nice to see Saltlover the resident captologist back. :)

Same. Woot, woot! Welcome back! :)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: gouki88 on June 02, 2018, 07:42:16 PM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Our old friend Tony Allen.
My main problem with this is that TA was really good at picking his spots with us. Around 48% from the field with very little 3’s attempted.

Marcus on the other hand has never averaged less than 4 3PA’s a game, while amazingly never shooting as well as he did in his rookie year (nailing a gruesome .301% this year).
If Marcus was efficient and knew his spots like TA I’d like him so much more

I think Tony Allen is a good comparison and honestly I was so glad to see him go. He was a total train wreck, I can still see him dribbling the ball off his foot to this day!

Same. Dude was a total bonehead. Ugh.
Imagine if Smart ever shot 45+% from the field though :'( makes TA look like a genius shot taker
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on June 04, 2018, 07:07:30 PM
89.5% voted that 14 mil is too much. Rarely see a percentage this high.  :)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Beat LA on June 04, 2018, 07:14:37 PM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Our old friend Tony Allen.
My main problem with this is that TA was really good at picking his spots with us. Around 48% from the field with very little 3’s attempted.

Marcus on the other hand has never averaged less than 4 3PA’s a game, while amazingly never shooting as well as he did in his rookie year (nailing a gruesome .301% this year).
If Marcus was efficient and knew his spots like TA I’d like him so much more

I think Tony Allen is a good comparison and honestly I was so glad to see him go. He was a total train wreck, I can still see him dribbling the ball off his foot to this day!

Same. Dude was a total bonehead. Ugh.
Imagine if Smart ever shot 45+% from the field though :'( makes TA look like a genius shot taker

Don't go there, man, lol ;D.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: gouki88 on June 04, 2018, 07:29:36 PM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Our old friend Tony Allen.
My main problem with this is that TA was really good at picking his spots with us. Around 48% from the field with very little 3’s attempted.

Marcus on the other hand has never averaged less than 4 3PA’s a game, while amazingly never shooting as well as he did in his rookie year (nailing a gruesome .301% this year).
If Marcus was efficient and knew his spots like TA I’d like him so much more

I think Tony Allen is a good comparison and honestly I was so glad to see him go. He was a total train wreck, I can still see him dribbling the ball off his foot to this day!

Same. Dude was a total bonehead. Ugh.
Imagine if Smart ever shot 45+% from the field though :'( makes TA look like a genius shot taker

Don't go there, man, lol ;D.
These are the things I dream of at night
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on June 04, 2018, 07:32:07 PM
Has there ever been a player this bad at offense but his defense and toughness is so good he can pass as a good bench player ?
Our old friend Tony Allen.
My main problem with this is that TA was really good at picking his spots with us. Around 48% from the field with very little 3’s attempted.

Marcus on the other hand has never averaged less than 4 3PA’s a game, while amazingly never shooting as well as he did in his rookie year (nailing a gruesome .301% this year).
If Marcus was efficient and knew his spots like TA I’d like him so much more

I think Tony Allen is a good comparison and honestly I was so glad to see him go. He was a total train wreck, I can still see him dribbling the ball off his foot to this day!

Same. Dude was a total bonehead. Ugh.
Imagine if Smart ever shot 45+% from the field though :'( makes TA look like a genius shot taker

Don't go there, man, lol ;D.
These are the things I dream of at night

not optimistic after last summer's rumored shooting improvement  :P
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 04, 2018, 08:36:07 PM
Im a huge smart fan

but a mans jUST s gotta know his limits .

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MJohnnyboy on June 04, 2018, 08:39:03 PM
Im a huge smart fan

but a mans jUST s gotta know his limits .

You're not the only one, but he's going to be very disappointed this summer.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Alleyoopster on June 04, 2018, 09:10:50 PM
Im a huge smart fan

but a mans jUST s gotta know his limits .

You're not the only one, but he's going to be very disappointed this summer.

Don't bet on it....never thought Evan Turner would get the contract he did. 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MJohnnyboy on June 04, 2018, 09:52:06 PM
Im a huge smart fan

but a mans jUST s gotta know his limits .

You're not the only one, but he's going to be very disappointed this summer.

Don't bet on it....never thought Evan Turner would get the contract he did.

The circumstances are much different now than they were in 2016. Everyone had money then. If you were a free agent two years ago, you essentially won the lottery. Now, hardly anyone will have money this summer, and most teams that do are re-building.

It's more than just the lack of money. What's really going hurt Smart is both his proneness to injury and his immaturity. Teams don't want to pay top dollar for guys who can't stay on the court and/or can't handle themselves off the court, and Smart proved himself to be one of those guys when he punched that picture frame which almost ended his season. If that had happened a few years ago, it wouldn't hold much water, but it happened just a few months prior to his free agency which isn't a good look for him. I'm anticipating that it will negatively impact his chances of a payday in free agency, but I've been wrong before.

If I were Marcus, I'd take the qualifying offer and bet on myself next year with the Celtics aiming for a more substantial playoff run.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: jambr380 on June 04, 2018, 10:13:58 PM
Im a huge smart fan

but a mans jUST s gotta know his limits .

You're not the only one, but he's going to be very disappointed this summer.

Don't bet on it....never thought Evan Turner would get the contract he did.

The circumstances are much different now than they were in 2016. Everyone had money then. If you were a free agent two years ago, you essentially won the lottery. Now, hardly anyone will have money this summer, and most teams that do are re-building.

It's more than just the lack of money. What's really going hurt Smart is both his proneness to injury and his immaturity. Teams don't want to pay top dollar for guys who can't stay on the court and/or can't handle themselves off the court, and Smart proved himself to be one of those guys when he punched that picture frame which almost ended his season. If that had happened a few years ago, it wouldn't hold much water, but it happened just a few months prior to his free agency which isn't a good look for him. I'm anticipating that it will negatively impact his chances of a payday in free agency, but I've been wrong before.

If I were Marcus, I'd take the qualifying offer and bet on myself next year with the Celtics aiming for a more substantial playoff run.

He definitely got lucky the Cs made a deep playoff run and was a key contributor. The picture frame incident and the other thumb injury seem like a distant memory.

I am not sure what kind of contract he will get. Announcers constantly praise his defensive ability and knack for making a big play; I am sure there are other teams who feel the same way. Whether or not one of those teams actually has more than the MLE to give him is another story.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MJohnnyboy on June 04, 2018, 10:30:54 PM
Im a huge smart fan

but a mans jUST s gotta know his limits .

You're not the only one, but he's going to be very disappointed this summer.

Don't bet on it....never thought Evan Turner would get the contract he did.

The circumstances are much different now than they were in 2016. Everyone had money then. If you were a free agent two years ago, you essentially won the lottery. Now, hardly anyone will have money this summer, and most teams that do are re-building.

It's more than just the lack of money. What's really going hurt Smart is both his proneness to injury and his immaturity. Teams don't want to pay top dollar for guys who can't stay on the court and/or can't handle themselves off the court, and Smart proved himself to be one of those guys when he punched that picture frame which almost ended his season. If that had happened a few years ago, it wouldn't hold much water, but it happened just a few months prior to his free agency which isn't a good look for him. I'm anticipating that it will negatively impact his chances of a payday in free agency, but I've been wrong before.

If I were Marcus, I'd take the qualifying offer and bet on myself next year with the Celtics aiming for a more substantial playoff run.

He definitely got lucky the Cs made a deep playoff run and was a key contributor. The picture frame incident and the other thumb injury seem like a distant memory.

I am not sure what kind of contract he will get. Announcers constantly praise his defensive ability and knack for making a big play; I am sure there are other teams who feel the same way. Whether or not one of those teams actually has more than the MLE to give him is another story.

TP, though I think the picture frame incident is going to hurt him big time on the open market. We as a fanbase have forgiven him, but I'm not so sure other teams will do the same.

I'm 100% sure Marcus will have plenty of interested suitors this summer. I believe that he's one of the few non-star glue guys in this league that practically every team would love to have. I just don't think any of those teams are going to offer anything the Celtics can't match.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: green_bballers13 on June 04, 2018, 10:37:09 PM
I know that the cap is changing and guard is a stacked position, etc, etc, etc

but I can't see how the Celtics are favored to sign Smart. There are other teams that have more cap space. Many of these teams will miss on the top free agents and move on to pay Marcus something like $14m per year. Unless Danny is intent on playing the luxury cap game, I can't see why they could pay him as much as a team like Dallas, OKC (when George heads to LA), or a bunch of others.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MJohnnyboy on June 04, 2018, 10:59:45 PM
I know that the cap is changing and guard is a stacked position, etc, etc, etc

but I can't see how the Celtics are favored to sign Smart. There are other teams that have more cap space. Many of these teams will miss on the top free agents and move on to pay Marcus something like $14m per year. Unless Danny is intent on playing the luxury cap game, I can't see why they could pay him as much as a team like Dallas, OKC (when George heads to LA), or a bunch of others.

OKC will most certainly not have cap room regardless of what happens with George. Just FYI.

And I'll believe it when I see it. I want to reiterate my other point that Smart's incident with the picture frame should really hurt him on the open market. Lou Williams took a 3-yr/$24 million extension with the Clippers. Smart should expect his market to be around there.

Last summer, not many bad contracts were handed out. The only ones that I can think of off the top of my head are the Tim Hardaway Jr contract with the Knicks and everything the Kings did, but that's a given with those teams. I really don't expect any team to spend unwisely this time.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 08, 2018, 02:43:26 PM
90% of the people here undersell how crippling it would be if he became a non-shooter.  You cannot play this space offense with non-shooters on the floor.  Taking and making 30% is FAR better than passing open looks or letting the defense ignore you.  He makes enough to keep defenses honest, and 24 seconds isn't enough to keep swinging the ball past the first open look.

Like I've said before, the difference between Smart shooting 30% and 36% at his current volume is 1 point per game.  Totally negligible next to the 5-8 extra possessions he generates.  He also plays a critical strategic role as 6th man -- after the first 6 minutes, Stevens gets to assess who has it and who doesn't, which matchups are bothering us etc., and he can literally insert Smart for any player on the court.  He's the ultimate fixer.

We'd be crazy to let him go.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: perks-a-beast on June 08, 2018, 03:28:05 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 08, 2018, 03:38:56 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: RodyTur10 on June 08, 2018, 03:52:18 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.

One advantage is that the ending of the rookie contracts of Brown and Tatum correlates with the ending of the (max) contracts of Horford and Hayward.

In general paying role players big money (any contract over 8 million) is a recipe for disaster, but Smart is quite unique and crucial in what he brings to the team. Therefore I'd like to see a resigning under reasonable demands (8-12 range).

The growth which Rozier has shown makes him comparable on playing level to Smart, but it's much easier to replace the role of Rozier than Smart's. For a team like the Celtics you'd rather resign Smart than Rozier if the money is the same.

Another team with cap space most likely is a rebuilding team and in that situation I'd rather sign Rozier. In that case you hope that Rozier becomes an (above) average starter which is more likely for him than Smart.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: td450 on June 08, 2018, 03:54:02 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 08, 2018, 04:24:35 PM
I heard that Sullinger was going to get big bucks here and it never happened.

Sullinger salary predictions here:

Quote
4/64 is Mozgov and 4/70 is Noah, right? I can't believe I'm saying this, but 4/72? 

Quote
4/70 at least. I think the Nets are a good fit for him.

Quote
78 million

Is a lot of Whopper

Quote
Quote
4 years 70 million lol

Quote
Somebody will offer him four years, 60 million.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85948.0

Never happened.  There was a lot more but I am trying to illustrate that collectively the blog has no idea what a player will get and it is no different here.

Smart has flaws and they are going to cost him money in the off season.   He also has some big strengths.

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on June 08, 2018, 04:30:32 PM
I hear you on the Sullinger comparison, but do the same for Olynyk and Turner and it turns out a bit differently.  ;)

Plus Marcus tends to get hurt, but he isn't going to eat his way out of the league either.

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: jambr380 on June 08, 2018, 04:37:47 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 08, 2018, 04:42:02 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.
Roster composition matters.   There are a bunch of teams in the league who would win more right now by adding Smart's versatility than Jaylen's scoring.

GSW, PHO, CHA, DAL, MIN, LAL, WAS, OKC... just off the top of my head.  I actually think it's true for atleast half of all teams.  And I'd take that trade any day.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 08, 2018, 04:43:33 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Monkhouse on June 08, 2018, 04:52:20 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.

Okay, like who?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on June 08, 2018, 04:53:39 PM
Okay, like who?
http://www.nba.com/allstar/2018/roster

28 actually.

 ;)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Boris Badenov on June 08, 2018, 04:57:43 PM
Here's a list of guards making $12-14 million this year:

JR Smith
Brandon Knight
Eric Gordon
Jeremy Lin
Kemba Walker

Now $10-12:

Austin Rivers
Courtney Lee
Jordan Clarkson
Dion Waiters
Alec Burks
Patty Mills
Terrence Ross
Iman Shumpert
Darren Collison
Danny Green

Now, $8-10

Tony Snell
Matt Dellavedova
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Andre Roberson
Jerryd Bayless
Avery Bradley
E'Twuan Moore
Vince Carter
Garrett Temple

Obviously these guys were signed at different times and are at different career stages, but which group does Smart seem to fit best with?


Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 08, 2018, 05:05:32 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.

Okay, like who?
Roughly everyone down to Trevor Ariza would be a move that involves tradeoffs, positive and negative.  Any of the top-tier guys are strictly better.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 08, 2018, 05:07:31 PM
Here's a list of guards making $12-14 million this year:

JR Smith
Brandon Knight
Eric Gordon
Jeremy Lin
Kemba Walker

Now $10-12:

Austin Rivers
Courtney Lee
Jordan Clarkson
Dion Waiters
Alec Burks
Patty Mills
Terrence Ross
Iman Shumpert
Darren Collison
Danny Green

Now, $8-10

Tony Snell
Matt Dellavedova
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Andre Roberson
Jerryd Bayless
Avery Bradley
E'Twuan Moore
Vince Carter
Garrett Temple

Obviously these guys were signed at different times and are at different career stages, but which group does Smart seem to fit best with?
I like him in the 10-12M camp.  So... adjusted for cap inflation, he's worth 14. 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: td450 on June 08, 2018, 05:30:38 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.
You know who can replace what Marcus does? Jaylen Brown can.

Marcus makes some exciting defensive plays, but he isn't any better a defender overall than Jaylen was last year. In one or two years, Jaylen will be a substantially more valuable defender. He's much bigger and a far superior athlete and works just as hard as Marcus does.

Jaylen is 21. Saying there are other players who can replace him is a matter of when. Could a number of other players give the same value to the C's that he did last year? Of course.

What do you expect that answer to be when Jaylen is 24, like Marcus is now? He will be an all-NBA player, and Marcus will still be shooting under 40%.


Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on June 08, 2018, 05:39:12 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.
You know who can replace what Marcus does? Jaylen Brown can.

Marcus makes some exciting defensive plays, but he isn't any better a defender overall than Jaylen was last year. In one or two years, Jaylen will be a substantially more valuable defender. He's much bigger and a far superior athlete and works just as hard as Marcus does.

Jaylen is 21. Saying there are other players who can replace him is a matter of when. Could a number of other players give the same value to the C's that he did last year? Of course.

What do you expect that answer to be when Jaylen is 24, like Marcus is now? He will be an all-NBA player, and Marcus will still be shooting under 40%.

I agree. We thought we would take a step down defensively this year because we lost Crowder and Bradley. We thought there was no way we would be better.

Jaylen Brown is a big reason why we were one of the top defenses in the league. His versatility and understanding of team concepts were much better than Bradley's ever were (although Bradley was a superior one-on-one defender on the perimeter).

Talented players make you forget about lost role players pretty quick.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 11, 2018, 12:24:08 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.
You know who can replace what Marcus does? Jaylen Brown can.

Marcus makes some exciting defensive plays, but he isn't any better a defender overall than Jaylen was last year. In one or two years, Jaylen will be a substantially more valuable defender. He's much bigger and a far superior athlete and works just as hard as Marcus does.

Jaylen is 21. Saying there are other players who can replace him is a matter of when. Could a number of other players give the same value to the C's that he did last year? Of course.

What do you expect that answer to be when Jaylen is 24, like Marcus is now? He will be an all-NBA player, and Marcus will still be shooting under 40%.
The plays Marcus makes aren't just exciting, they're winning .  They result in change of possession.  Brown is a solid, versatile defender, but not an impact defender.  He doesn't block shots, take charges, bait fouls, disrupt passing lanes.  He's not impactful when he's off the ball.  He's not a magnet for loose balls.  Smart contests more shots, more 3's, gets to more loose balls, deflects more passes, boxes out better:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS_2PT&dir=1

The only place Jaylen is better is bothering shooters with size, like a Derozan e.g.  And if you're still on about shooting %, you'll never get it.   Don't get me wrong, I want to keep Jaylen too, but they're completely different players.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: moiso on June 11, 2018, 01:02:58 PM
I agree with PickNroll's last post.  Brown is a plus defender, he's fine.  But to say he works as hard on defense as Smart does is crazy.  Smart is an absolute psychopath who doesn't care about keeping his body in one piece.  I have no idea how he seems to come up with seemingly every single loose ball, even when there could be several players much closer to the ball than him.  Brown isn't close to being on that level.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: CF033 on June 11, 2018, 01:14:43 PM
I'm mixed on Marcus Smart, while he is scrappy as heck and can annoy the ever living crud out of the opposition he is a massive liability on offense and really has no business taking half the shots that he takes.

I wonder how many games that Marcus made a big winning play in were close because before the big play he clanged 5 straight 3s and let the other team back in it.

Although I think I'd want to keep him just for what he did to James Harden.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: gift on June 11, 2018, 01:15:07 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.
You know who can replace what Marcus does? Jaylen Brown can.

Marcus makes some exciting defensive plays, but he isn't any better a defender overall than Jaylen was last year. In one or two years, Jaylen will be a substantially more valuable defender. He's much bigger and a far superior athlete and works just as hard as Marcus does.

Jaylen is 21. Saying there are other players who can replace him is a matter of when. Could a number of other players give the same value to the C's that he did last year? Of course.

What do you expect that answer to be when Jaylen is 24, like Marcus is now? He will be an all-NBA player, and Marcus will still be shooting under 40%.
The plays Marcus makes aren't just exciting, they're winning .  They result in change of possession.  Brown is a solid, versatile defender, but not an impact defender.  He doesn't block shots, take charges, bait fouls, disrupt passing lanes.  He's not impactful when he's off the ball.  He's not a magnet for loose balls.  Smart contests more shots, more 3's, gets to more loose balls, deflects more passes, boxes out better:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS_2PT&dir=1

The only place Jaylen is better is bothering shooters with size, like a Derozan e.g.  And if you're still on about shooting %, you'll never get it.   Don't get me wrong, I want to keep Jaylen too, but they're completely different players.

I somewhat agree. I've never seen a player consistently make brilliant plays like Marcus Smart. He's a savant.

That being said, there are times when he, too, gambles or doesn't close out on his man or loses his man. I don't have a good sense of how often it happens or the impact overall. If the game is on the line for one or two possessions, I want Marcus Smart as my main defender. But over the course of the game, I will admit there might be room for another plus defender to close the gap enough, combined with the offensive output, to be worth more to the team.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Diggles on June 11, 2018, 01:41:00 PM
Marcus Smart       Test the open market and let us do a sign n trade if its to rich for our blood....    10 million a year for 4 years..... 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: kozlodoev on June 11, 2018, 01:49:09 PM
The plays Marcus makes aren't just exciting, they're winning .  They result in change of possession.  Brown is a solid, versatile defender, but not an impact defender.  He doesn't block shots, take charges, bait fouls, disrupt passing lanes.  He's not impactful when he's off the ball.  He's not a magnet for loose balls.  Smart contests more shots, more 3's, gets to more loose balls, deflects more passes, boxes out better:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS_2PT&dir=1

The only place Jaylen is better is bothering shooters with size, like a Derozan e.g.  And if you're still on about shooting %, you'll never get it.   Don't get me wrong, I want to keep Jaylen too, but they're completely different players.
Yeah, I think I can live with 0.8 fewer contested shots per game as the cost of not playing 4 on 5 on offense.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 18, 2018, 02:35:54 PM
The plays Marcus makes aren't just exciting, they're winning .  They result in change of possession.  Brown is a solid, versatile defender, but not an impact defender.  He doesn't block shots, take charges, bait fouls, disrupt passing lanes.  He's not impactful when he's off the ball.  He's not a magnet for loose balls.  Smart contests more shots, more 3's, gets to more loose balls, deflects more passes, boxes out better:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS_2PT&dir=1

The only place Jaylen is better is bothering shooters with size, like a Derozan e.g.  And if you're still on about shooting %, you'll never get it.   Don't get me wrong, I want to keep Jaylen too, but they're completely different players.
Yeah, I think I can live with 0.8 fewer contested shots per game as the cost of not playing 4 on 5 on offense.
If we're ignoring the steals, fouls, charges, deflections, loose balls, assists, screens, box-outs, change-of-possession plays, then you're right.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on June 18, 2018, 02:45:00 PM
The plays Marcus makes aren't just exciting, they're winning .  They result in change of possession.  Brown is a solid, versatile defender, but not an impact defender.  He doesn't block shots, take charges, bait fouls, disrupt passing lanes.  He's not impactful when he's off the ball.  He's not a magnet for loose balls.  Smart contests more shots, more 3's, gets to more loose balls, deflects more passes, boxes out better:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS_2PT&dir=1

The only place Jaylen is better is bothering shooters with size, like a Derozan e.g.  And if you're still on about shooting %, you'll never get it.   Don't get me wrong, I want to keep Jaylen too, but they're completely different players.
Yeah, I think I can live with 0.8 fewer contested shots per game as the cost of not playing 4 on 5 on offense.
If we're ignoring the steals, fouls, charges, deflections, loose balls, assists, screens, box-outs, change-of-possession plays, then you're right.

Neither takes many charges, and Jaylen contests more shots and gets more loose balls. Jaylen has fewer turnovers and draws more fouls.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: droopdog7 on June 18, 2018, 02:55:09 PM
you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.
You know who can replace what Marcus does? Jaylen Brown can.

Marcus makes some exciting defensive plays, but he isn't any better a defender overall than Jaylen was last year. In one or two years, Jaylen will be a substantially more valuable defender. He's much bigger and a far superior athlete and works just as hard as Marcus does.

Jaylen is 21. Saying there are other players who can replace him is a matter of when. Could a number of other players give the same value to the C's that he did last year? Of course.

What do you expect that answer to be when Jaylen is 24, like Marcus is now? He will be an all-NBA player, and Marcus will still be shooting under 40%.
The plays Marcus makes aren't just exciting, they're winning .  They result in change of possession.  Brown is a solid, versatile defender, but not an impact defender.  He doesn't block shots, take charges, bait fouls, disrupt passing lanes.  He's not impactful when he's off the ball.  He's not a magnet for loose balls.  Smart contests more shots, more 3's, gets to more loose balls, deflects more passes, boxes out better:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS_2PT&dir=1

The only place Jaylen is better is bothering shooters with size, like a Derozan e.g.  And if you're still on about shooting %, you'll never get it.   Don't get me wrong, I want to keep Jaylen too, but they're completely different players.

I somewhat agree. I've never seen a player consistently make brilliant plays like Marcus Smart. He's a savant.

That being said, there are times when he, too, gambles or doesn't close out on his man or loses his man. I don't have a good sense of how often it happens or the impact overall. If the game is on the line for one or two possessions, I want Marcus Smart as my main defender. But over the course of the game, I will admit there might be room for another plus defender to close the gap enough, combined with the offensive output, to be worth more to the team.
In a vacuum, I would guess that 10 out of 10 GM's would pick brown over smart if given the choice.

But I also agree that smart brings things that no one else on this team does or can.  And it's not just the winning plays idea, especially when if it's about making three's late in games which I think it a myth (though I haven't researched the numbers).  Winning plays are also hot and cold, and not something you can depend on as consistently as say, putting the ball in Lebron's hands to go get a bucket. 

The one thing you CAN depend on from marcus (and does have a consistent impact on the game) is the energy.  There is no question in my mind that marcus' balls out approach lifts his teammates to match it, less they look like slackers.   It's essentially the same thing you get from the home crowd, and I don't think anyone would argue that home court isn't an advantage.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 18, 2018, 03:01:00 PM
The plays Marcus makes aren't just exciting, they're winning .  They result in change of possession.  Brown is a solid, versatile defender, but not an impact defender.  He doesn't block shots, take charges, bait fouls, disrupt passing lanes.  He's not impactful when he's off the ball.  He's not a magnet for loose balls.  Smart contests more shots, more 3's, gets to more loose balls, deflects more passes, boxes out better:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS_2PT&dir=1

The only place Jaylen is better is bothering shooters with size, like a Derozan e.g.  And if you're still on about shooting %, you'll never get it.   Don't get me wrong, I want to keep Jaylen too, but they're completely different players.
Yeah, I think I can live with 0.8 fewer contested shots per game as the cost of not playing 4 on 5 on offense.
If we're ignoring the steals, fouls, charges, deflections, loose balls, assists, screens, box-outs, change-of-possession plays, then you're right.

Neither takes many charges, and Jaylen contests more shots and gets more loose balls. Jaylen has fewer turnovers and draws more fouls.
He doesn't contest more shots or get to more loose balls.  I linked to the stats page in my OP.  You're not accounting for fouls Smart draws on defense.  Smart's Asst/TO is 2.0.  Jaylen 0.8.  Every PG in the league naturally had more TO/36 than a spot-up/post-up SG.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Diggles on June 18, 2018, 03:01:53 PM
Say you are going to war......  Marcus Smart is like having a special weapon that might be needed to get into a building.  Once you are inside you do not need him, but you couldn't have done it with out him.   

At 14 million....... I just might lose this battle, but not the war! 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on June 18, 2018, 03:04:45 PM
Say you are going to war......  Marcus Smart is like having a special weapon that might be needed to get into a building.  Once you are inside you do not need him, but you couldn't have done it with out him.   

At 14 million....... I just might lose this battle, but not the war!
Excellent analogy!  TP!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on June 18, 2018, 04:31:07 PM
The plays Marcus makes aren't just exciting, they're winning .  They result in change of possession.  Brown is a solid, versatile defender, but not an impact defender.  He doesn't block shots, take charges, bait fouls, disrupt passing lanes.  He's not impactful when he's off the ball.  He's not a magnet for loose balls.  Smart contests more shots, more 3's, gets to more loose balls, deflects more passes, boxes out better:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS_2PT&dir=1

The only place Jaylen is better is bothering shooters with size, like a Derozan e.g.  And if you're still on about shooting %, you'll never get it.   Don't get me wrong, I want to keep Jaylen too, but they're completely different players.
Yeah, I think I can live with 0.8 fewer contested shots per game as the cost of not playing 4 on 5 on offense.
If we're ignoring the steals, fouls, charges, deflections, loose balls, assists, screens, box-outs, change-of-possession plays, then you're right.

Neither takes many charges, and Jaylen contests more shots and gets more loose balls. Jaylen has fewer turnovers and draws more fouls.
He doesn't contest more shots or get to more loose balls.  I linked to the stats page in my OP.  You're not accounting for fouls Smart draws on defense.  Smart's Asst/TO is 2.0.  Jaylen 0.8.  Every PG in the league naturally had more TO/36 than a spot-up/post-up SG.

You linked playoff stats.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: wiley on June 18, 2018, 04:47:29 PM
Have to agree with Pick'NRoll...

the eye test...risking bodily harm to get the ball...favors Smart over most players in the league.
And this juices up his teammates.  When he dives to the ground to tie up an opponent it probably doesn't count as a loose ball...absolutely love having Smart on this team.

If he weren't a good PG as well maybe I wouldn't mind sacrificing all that he brings for more offense..but he's done a good job as a facilitator as well as the intangibles/defense.

If he's too expensive...look at Melvin Frazier and Jevon Carter....but don't expect them to see as many minutes as Brad gives Smart. 

And also look to balance his loss with a better 3 point threat whose defense is good enough to see minutes...Khyri Thomas please!  DiVincenzo? Allen?  (none will be as good as Smart...at least not next year).
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: jpotter33 on June 19, 2018, 10:12:32 PM
http://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/1009236648331218944

Smart on the Mavs’ radar for the right price. IIRC, Smart is from the Dallas area, too, and similar to OKC (his college home) he’s elevated his play in Dallas throughout the years. So they could be a serious threat to sign Smart away from us. I wonder what they’re considering the right price, though.

Edit: Seems like they’re looking for him only if cheap (e.g. < $10M per), which I think we’d match.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/06/marcus-smart-could-be-targeted-by-mavs.html
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Eja117 on June 19, 2018, 10:14:38 PM
In some sort of vacuum I'd say he is worth that. In the NBA he's not. I'm beginning to think there will be less and less players making money like this. There will be big stars on teams making around 20 or more, one MLE guy, and like that's it
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: ETNCeltics on June 19, 2018, 10:34:10 PM
I can't see MS getting the $15M he craves unless he's doing it on one or 2 year deals. As Eja said above, the "middle class" of the league is going to dwindle under this cba.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Boris Badenov on June 19, 2018, 10:44:34 PM
In some sort of vacuum I'd say he is worth that. In the NBA he's not.

I'm really trying to understand these two sentences...
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: ETNCeltics on June 19, 2018, 11:07:26 PM
In some sort of vacuum I'd say he is worth that. In the NBA he's not.

I'm really trying to understand these two sentences...
Not to put words in his mouth, but I think he's saying relative to a $100 million + cap, Smart is worth $15 million. But in the current system where max players get most of the $$, it doesn't make sense to pay him that.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Tr1boy on June 19, 2018, 11:09:48 PM
We will see what happens

Celtics draft Divicenzo for example

Celtics bid for Smart drops a couple of million
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: GreenEnvy on June 19, 2018, 11:39:17 PM
We will see what happens

Celtics draft Divicenzo for example

Celtics bid for Smart drops a couple of million

I really don’t think DiVincenzo makes it to 27.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Tr1boy on June 20, 2018, 09:50:50 PM
http://bostonsportsextra.com/boston-celtics/2018/06/marcus-smart-targeted-three-teams-per-reports

not sure how legit this source is

I can buy that Dallas could be interested.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on June 21, 2018, 07:14:03 AM
http://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/1009236648331218944

Smart on the Mavs’ radar for the right price. IIRC, Smart is from the Dallas area, too, and similar to OKC (his college home) he’s elevated his play in Dallas throughout the years. So they could be a serious threat to sign Smart away from us. I wonder what they’re considering the right price, though.

Edit: Seems like they’re looking for him only if cheap (e.g. < $10M per), which I think we’d match.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/06/marcus-smart-could-be-targeted-by-mavs.html

That's the hope, isn't it? That Smart gets some real interest from a team (or teams) unwilling to give him 7 figures a year so he comes back to Boston for, like 4 years/$44 mil.

I know this could result in him taking the qo just as well, but hopefully he's looking for the security of a long term deal.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 01, 2018, 11:04:18 PM
No rumors yet...  :o
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: manl_lui on July 01, 2018, 11:06:20 PM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: trickybilly on July 01, 2018, 11:42:39 PM
Is there anyway we can do right by Smart but avoid the Tax by some carefully structured deal going forward?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 01, 2018, 11:45:13 PM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MaxAMillion on July 02, 2018, 12:16:55 AM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Chris22 on July 02, 2018, 12:25:46 AM
I like Smart, but his horrific shooting negates a lot of the good things he does.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: manl_lui on July 02, 2018, 12:33:44 AM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

that is my thought exactly, if LeBron leaving the East opens up the the East for us, if you believe that statement is true we will need Smart's defense and hustle to beat the likes of Houston or GSW or whoever comes out of the West.

Not just going to the finals, we will need Smart to help defend against Philly or Bucks or whoever we will face in the east
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 02, 2018, 12:43:47 AM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

Our odds increased the moment Lebron left the East.

Smart's a better distributor than Rozier and I'll give you the defense because of his size and switchability, but Rozier is a plus defender and their advanced defensive stats are almost identical. Otherwise, Rozier's a better shooter everywhere on the floor, a better rebounder, and protects the ball much better than Smart who is a turnover machine. As a result, Rozier's Assist/Turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 2.9 to Smart's 2.0. Think Rozier has passed Smart, but I hope Smart comes back at the right price because I keep thinking his shot selection has to improve someday without any evidence that it will.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 02, 2018, 12:44:29 AM
Is there anyway we can do right by Smart but avoid the Tax by some carefully structured deal going forward?

Sure, trade Marcus Morris.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MJohnnyboy on July 02, 2018, 12:46:29 AM
Is there anyway we can do right by Smart but avoid the Tax by some carefully structured deal going forward?

Sure, trade Marcus Morris.

I could see that happening regardless of whether they want to stay under the tax or not.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: mr. dee on July 02, 2018, 12:47:53 AM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

Our odds increased the moment Lebron left the East.

Smart's a better distributor than Rozier and I'll give you the defense because of his size and switchability, but Rozier is a plus defender and their advanced defensive stats are almost identical. Otherwise, Rozier's a better shooter everywhere on the floor, a better rebounder, and protects the ball much better than Smart who is a turnover machine. As a result, Rozier's Assist/Turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 2.9 to Smart's 2.0. Think Rozier has passed Smart, but I hope Smart comes back at the right price because I keep thinking his shot selection has to improve someday without any evidence that it will.

We need both of them at least for this year. Rozier is incapable of playing point. He is still have a poor court vision and not a very good off-ball defender. Not to mention he gets killed on switches and nullifies his defensive capabilities due to positional mismatch. We need Smart more than Rozier because he provides things that Rozier or any scoring guards cannot replace. Not to mention, we already have Kyrie, Tatum and Hayward for scoring load. He's a luxury at this point.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MJohnnyboy on July 02, 2018, 12:50:44 AM
Three teams who I presumed would be Smart suitors are now out of the running.

Indiana, Phoenix, and Dallas all spent substantial money since this morning, so they're out. I really can't think of anyone else who would pony up for him. Maybe Sacramento?

I envision Smart taking a 2-year, $24-26 million type deal to re-sign with the Celtics.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: keevsnick on July 02, 2018, 12:53:35 AM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

Our odds increased the moment Lebron left the East.

Smart's a better distributor than Rozier and I'll give you the defense because of his size and switchability, but Rozier is a plus defender and their advanced defensive stats are almost identical. Otherwise, Rozier's a better shooter everywhere on the floor, a better rebounder, and protects the ball much better than Smart who is a turnover machine. As a result, Rozier's Assist/Turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 2.9 to Smart's 2.0. Think Rozier has passed Smart, but I hope Smart comes back at the right price because I keep thinking his shot selection has to improve someday without any evidence that it will.

We need both of them at least for this year. Rozier is incapable of playing point. He is still have a poor court vision and not a very good off-ball defender. Not to mention he gets killed on switches and nullifies his defensive capabilities due to positional mismatch. We need Smart more than Rozier because he provides things that Rozier or any scoring guards cannot replace. Not to mention, we already have Kyrie, Tatum and Hayward for scoring load. He's a luxury at this point.


Its not really about scoring, its about at least the threat of shooting. Smart does not need to be guarded, and that means his man can help off him and collapse on our drives. Can't do that as much with Rozier. I agree that Smart brings a lot that Rozier doesn't, but If you are just looking for a complementary piece to stick next to a team full of stars or soon to be stars Rozier might be a better fit.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: trickybilly on July 02, 2018, 01:03:57 AM
Three teams who I presumed would be Smart suitors are now out of the running.

Indiana, Phoenix, and Dallas all spent substantial money since this morning, so they're out. I really can't think of anyone else who would pony up for him. Maybe Sacramento?

I envision Smart taking a 2-year, $24-26 million type deal to re-sign with the Celtics.

Why would he do that? If someone else offers Smart a two-year 24 million deal (who?) I think the C's maybe let him walk, and re-sign him in two years time... Marcus is after a 4 year deal at least.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Beat LA on July 02, 2018, 01:13:43 AM
Is there anyway we can do right by Smart but avoid the Tax by some carefully structured deal going forward?

Sure, trade Marcus Morris.

Please don't.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 02, 2018, 01:17:54 AM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

Our odds increased the moment Lebron left the East.

Smart's a better distributor than Rozier and I'll give you the defense because of his size and switchability, but Rozier is a plus defender and their advanced defensive stats are almost identical. Otherwise, Rozier's a better shooter everywhere on the floor, a better rebounder, and protects the ball much better than Smart who is a turnover machine. As a result, Rozier's Assist/Turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 2.9 to Smart's 2.0. Think Rozier has passed Smart, but I hope Smart comes back at the right price because I keep thinking his shot selection has to improve someday without any evidence that it will.

We need both of them at least for this year. Rozier is incapable of playing point. He is still have a poor court vision and not a very good off-ball defender. Not to mention he gets killed on switches and nullifies his defensive capabilities due to positional mismatch. We need Smart more than Rozier because he provides things that Rozier or any scoring guards cannot replace. Not to mention, we already have Kyrie, Tatum and Hayward for scoring load. He's a luxury at this point.

Rozier will be the starter if Irving leaves or gets traded. Smart's a big liability offensively despite the nonsense about him being a better PG. Smart was 441st in total shooting% and 471st in turnover% last season in the NBA. When you're that far down the list, most of the names below you play minimal minutes. As long as he doesn't shoot or put the ball on the floor he's great.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MJohnnyboy on July 02, 2018, 01:41:48 AM
Three teams who I presumed would be Smart suitors are now out of the running.

Indiana, Phoenix, and Dallas all spent substantial money since this morning, so they're out. I really can't think of anyone else who would pony up for him. Maybe Sacramento?

I envision Smart taking a 2-year, $24-26 million type deal to re-sign with the Celtics.

Why would he do that? If someone else offers Smart a two-year 24 million deal (who?) I think the C's maybe let him walk, and re-sign him in two years time... Marcus is after a 4 year deal at least.

Because that's probably the most optimistic deal he gets now. I understand that a 4-year deal is what he wants. I just don't see him getting that in this cap crunch. Restricted free agents got screwed in this market the most. Unless you have proved you have star potential (which Smart has not), you're not getting a long-term expensive deal from anyone.

Also, if I read you correctly, you're saying let Smart walk for two years, then bring him back? That's going to be really tricky given that by then, we'll have to focus on paying long-term for Al, Kyrie, Hayward, and Brown. Not to mention Tatum will be eligible for an extension the following year.

The reason why I see Smart taking a two-year deal is that everyone will miraculously have cap room again in 2020 with an even higher salary cap. Plus by then, he'll be unrestricted so he'll have nothing holding him back.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on July 02, 2018, 01:28:26 PM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

Our odds increased the moment Lebron left the East.

Smart's a better distributor than Rozier and I'll give you the defense because of his size and switchability, but Rozier is a plus defender and their advanced defensive stats are almost identical. Otherwise, Rozier's a better shooter everywhere on the floor, a better rebounder, and protects the ball much better than Smart who is a turnover machine. As a result, Rozier's Assist/Turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 2.9 to Smart's 2.0. Think Rozier has passed Smart, but I hope Smart comes back at the right price because I keep thinking his shot selection has to improve someday without any evidence that it will.

We need both of them at least for this year. Rozier is incapable of playing point. He is still have a poor court vision and not a very good off-ball defender. Not to mention he gets killed on switches and nullifies his defensive capabilities due to positional mismatch. We need Smart more than Rozier because he provides things that Rozier or any scoring guards cannot replace. Not to mention, we already have Kyrie, Tatum and Hayward for scoring load. He's a luxury at this point.

Rozier will be the starter if Irving leaves or gets traded. Smart's a big liability offensively despite the nonsense about him being a better PG. Smart was 441st in total shooting% and 471st in turnover% last season in the NBA. When you're that far down the list, most of the names below you play minimal minutes. As long as he doesn't shoot or put the ball on the floor he's great.

Smart is definitely a better PG than Rozier. It's not even close. Rozier is a good ballhandler but can't run an offense. The reason his turnovers are so low is because he's not looking to create for other guys, he only make the safe, rote pass within the system. Good creators tend to have high turnovers (unless they're freaks like Chris Paul and Rozier is not Chris Paul).
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 02, 2018, 01:53:54 PM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

Our odds increased the moment Lebron left the East.

Smart's a better distributor than Rozier and I'll give you the defense because of his size and switchability, but Rozier is a plus defender and their advanced defensive stats are almost identical. Otherwise, Rozier's a better shooter everywhere on the floor, a better rebounder, and protects the ball much better than Smart who is a turnover machine. As a result, Rozier's Assist/Turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 2.9 to Smart's 2.0. Think Rozier has passed Smart, but I hope Smart comes back at the right price because I keep thinking his shot selection has to improve someday without any evidence that it will.

We need both of them at least for this year. Rozier is incapable of playing point. He is still have a poor court vision and not a very good off-ball defender. Not to mention he gets killed on switches and nullifies his defensive capabilities due to positional mismatch. We need Smart more than Rozier because he provides things that Rozier or any scoring guards cannot replace. Not to mention, we already have Kyrie, Tatum and Hayward for scoring load. He's a luxury at this point.

Rozier will be the starter if Irving leaves or gets traded. Smart's a big liability offensively despite the nonsense about him being a better PG. Smart was 441st in total shooting% and 471st in turnover% last season in the NBA. When you're that far down the list, most of the names below you play minimal minutes. As long as he doesn't shoot or put the ball on the floor he's great.

Smart is definitely a better PG than Rozier. It's not even close. Rozier is a good ballhandler but can't run an offense. The reason his turnovers are so low is because he's not looking to create for other guys, he only make the safe, rote pass within the system. Good creators tend to have high turnovers (unless they're freaks like Chris Paul and Rozier is not Chris Paul).

Rozier's 5.7 assists per game in the playoffs as the primary point guard that took his team to the ECF say hi. Oh, and his 4.75 to 1 assist to turnover ratio called and left a message.

By the way, Rozier's offensive rating of 115 in the playoffs dropped by earlier and would like you to call him back.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 02, 2018, 02:15:30 PM
Smart is coming back. Market is going to be real tough this summer for a defense-first guard. My guess is 1-year QO
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 02, 2018, 02:18:01 PM
Anything below 10M per is good with me, for however many years he wants.

If he wants the QO to test FA next year when there are seemingly more options available, that works as well.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on July 02, 2018, 02:19:24 PM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

Our odds increased the moment Lebron left the East.

Smart's a better distributor than Rozier and I'll give you the defense because of his size and switchability, but Rozier is a plus defender and their advanced defensive stats are almost identical. Otherwise, Rozier's a better shooter everywhere on the floor, a better rebounder, and protects the ball much better than Smart who is a turnover machine. As a result, Rozier's Assist/Turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 2.9 to Smart's 2.0. Think Rozier has passed Smart, but I hope Smart comes back at the right price because I keep thinking his shot selection has to improve someday without any evidence that it will.

We need both of them at least for this year. Rozier is incapable of playing point. He is still have a poor court vision and not a very good off-ball defender. Not to mention he gets killed on switches and nullifies his defensive capabilities due to positional mismatch. We need Smart more than Rozier because he provides things that Rozier or any scoring guards cannot replace. Not to mention, we already have Kyrie, Tatum and Hayward for scoring load. He's a luxury at this point.

Rozier will be the starter if Irving leaves or gets traded. Smart's a big liability offensively despite the nonsense about him being a better PG. Smart was 441st in total shooting% and 471st in turnover% last season in the NBA. When you're that far down the list, most of the names below you play minimal minutes. As long as he doesn't shoot or put the ball on the floor he's great.

Smart is definitely a better PG than Rozier. It's not even close. Rozier is a good ballhandler but can't run an offense. The reason his turnovers are so low is because he's not looking to create for other guys, he only make the safe, rote pass within the system. Good creators tend to have high turnovers (unless they're freaks like Chris Paul and Rozier is not Chris Paul).

Rozier's 5.7 assists per game in the playoffs as the primary point guard that took his team to the ECF say hi. Oh, and his 4.75 to 1 assist to turnover ratio called and left a message.

By the way, Rozier's offensive rating of 115 in the playoffs dropped by earlier and would like you to call him back.

I already talked about why Rozier's TO's are so low. His offensive rating is in no way proof of PG skills.

His assists, I think, are a function of being the primary ballhandler in a system that uses a lot of off ball screens to get players open for spot up opportunities. Rozier is no playmaker but he can follow the system and pass to an open man.

In terms of actual pg skills like looking for teammates or knowing where to put the ball where they are most comfortable, Smart is a lot better than Rozier.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Birdman on July 02, 2018, 02:21:13 PM
Wow big difference!! I also voted no..plenty of talent out there at cheaper price
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 02, 2018, 02:24:43 PM
Pacers aren't out I don't think. Just unlikely given their other spending. Also the space they do have is I think within the range the C's would match. So they're less likely than ever to put out that offer sheet.

This is going to take a while, reminds me of the Glen Davis RFA season. (man the numbers are so wildly different though)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: fairweatherfan on July 02, 2018, 02:27:21 PM
Agree with other folks - the most likely way this ends is with Marcus not getting the offers he wants from other teams or from us and taking the QO.  Which would be just fine for our purposes.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 02, 2018, 02:33:39 PM
Agree with other folks - the most likely way this ends is with Marcus not getting the offers he wants from other teams or from us and taking the QO.  Which would be just fine for our purposes.
I do wonder if the C's are willing to offer 10-12 per year for 4 years. That would be around what he could potentially sign as an offer sheet given the other contracts given out.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 02, 2018, 03:11:10 PM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

Our odds increased the moment Lebron left the East.

Smart's a better distributor than Rozier and I'll give you the defense because of his size and switchability, but Rozier is a plus defender and their advanced defensive stats are almost identical. Otherwise, Rozier's a better shooter everywhere on the floor, a better rebounder, and protects the ball much better than Smart who is a turnover machine. As a result, Rozier's Assist/Turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 2.9 to Smart's 2.0. Think Rozier has passed Smart, but I hope Smart comes back at the right price because I keep thinking his shot selection has to improve someday without any evidence that it will.

We need both of them at least for this year. Rozier is incapable of playing point. He is still have a poor court vision and not a very good off-ball defender. Not to mention he gets killed on switches and nullifies his defensive capabilities due to positional mismatch. We need Smart more than Rozier because he provides things that Rozier or any scoring guards cannot replace. Not to mention, we already have Kyrie, Tatum and Hayward for scoring load. He's a luxury at this point.

Rozier will be the starter if Irving leaves or gets traded. Smart's a big liability offensively despite the nonsense about him being a better PG. Smart was 441st in total shooting% and 471st in turnover% last season in the NBA. When you're that far down the list, most of the names below you play minimal minutes. As long as he doesn't shoot or put the ball on the floor he's great.

Smart is definitely a better PG than Rozier. It's not even close. Rozier is a good ballhandler but can't run an offense. The reason his turnovers are so low is because he's not looking to create for other guys, he only make the safe, rote pass within the system. Good creators tend to have high turnovers (unless they're freaks like Chris Paul and Rozier is not Chris Paul).

Rozier's 5.7 assists per game in the playoffs as the primary point guard that took his team to the ECF say hi. Oh, and his 4.75 to 1 assist to turnover ratio called and left a message.

By the way, Rozier's offensive rating of 115 in the playoffs dropped by earlier and would like you to call him back.
Rozier's 5.7 assists aren't worth anything if he isn't creating better offense with the ball in his hands, same goes for his A/T ratio.  The C's created 105.8 points per 100 possessions in the playoffs with Rozier on the floor and 105.5 with Smart.  The defense was far better with Smart at 102.9 than Rozier 105.2 resulting in better Net rating with Smart +2.6 than Rozier +.6
The regular season numbers favored Smart even more where both the offense and defense were better with him on the floor than Rozier, Smart on 105.9, 99.4, +6.5 and Rozier on 104.0, 101.0, +3.0

The Celtics in the playoffs as a team turned the ball over the least among all players when Smart was on the floor 10.8%, Rozier on floor 11.7%.  The C's also had an A/T ratio higher with Smart on the floor than they did with Rozier 59.4-58.9

Having a high A/T ratio does not mean you are creating more/better offense.  Rozier being safe with the ball and not creating/inability to create high quality scoring opportunities actually hurts your offense. 

The 115 offensive rating you quote for Rozier is a bogus rating of Rozier's own boxscore statistics and has no bearing on reality.  People that continue to spew the nonsense that Smart kills the C's offense are wrong. 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 02, 2018, 03:18:12 PM
can we re-sign him already! now that LeBron is out of the East, we need him more than ever!

We need Smart more because Lebron is gone?

We need him to help ensure that our odds increase for winning the East now that Lebron is gone. Smart is a better distributor and point guard than Rozier. He also is much better defensively than Rozier. They really need to bring him back (I bet BS agrees).

Our odds increased the moment Lebron left the East.

Smart's a better distributor than Rozier and I'll give you the defense because of his size and switchability, but Rozier is a plus defender and their advanced defensive stats are almost identical. Otherwise, Rozier's a better shooter everywhere on the floor, a better rebounder, and protects the ball much better than Smart who is a turnover machine. As a result, Rozier's Assist/Turnover ratio per 100 possessions is 2.9 to Smart's 2.0. Think Rozier has passed Smart, but I hope Smart comes back at the right price because I keep thinking his shot selection has to improve someday without any evidence that it will.

We need both of them at least for this year. Rozier is incapable of playing point. He is still have a poor court vision and not a very good off-ball defender. Not to mention he gets killed on switches and nullifies his defensive capabilities due to positional mismatch. We need Smart more than Rozier because he provides things that Rozier or any scoring guards cannot replace. Not to mention, we already have Kyrie, Tatum and Hayward for scoring load. He's a luxury at this point.

Rozier will be the starter if Irving leaves or gets traded. Smart's a big liability offensively despite the nonsense about him being a better PG. Smart was 441st in total shooting% and 471st in turnover% last season in the NBA. When you're that far down the list, most of the names below you play minimal minutes. As long as he doesn't shoot or put the ball on the floor he's great.

Smart is definitely a better PG than Rozier. It's not even close. Rozier is a good ballhandler but can't run an offense. The reason his turnovers are so low is because he's not looking to create for other guys, he only make the safe, rote pass within the system. Good creators tend to have high turnovers (unless they're freaks like Chris Paul and Rozier is not Chris Paul).

Rozier's 5.7 assists per game in the playoffs as the primary point guard that took his team to the ECF say hi. Oh, and his 4.75 to 1 assist to turnover ratio called and left a message.

By the way, Rozier's offensive rating of 115 in the playoffs dropped by earlier and would like you to call him back.
Rozier's 5.7 assists aren't worth anything if he isn't creating better offense with the ball in his hands, same goes for his A/T ratio.  The C's created 105.8 points per 100 possessions in the playoffs with Rozier on the floor and 105.5 with Smart.  The defense was far better with Smart at 102.9 than Rozier 105.2 resulting in better Net rating with Smart +2.6 than Rozier +.6
The regular season numbers favored Smart even more where both the offense and defense were better with him on the floor than Rozier, Smart on 105.9, 99.4, +6.5 and Rozier on 104.0, 101.0, +3.0

The Celtics in the playoffs as a team turned the ball over the least among all players when Smart was on the floor 10.8%, Rozier on floor 11.7%.  The C's also had an A/T ratio higher with Smart on the floor than they did with Rozier 59.4-58.9

Having a high A/T ratio does not mean you are creating more/better offense.  Rozier being safe with the ball and not creating/inability to create high quality scoring opportunities actually hurts your offense. 

The 115 offensive rating you quote for Rozier is a bogus rating of Rozier's own boxscore statistics and has no bearing on reality.  People that continue to spew the nonsense that Smart kills the C's offense are wrong.

Just to be clear, I'm not one to "spew the nonsense that Smart kills the C's offense."
 
I think Smart's advanced passing, even the ones that don't lead to assists, helps the motion of the offense greatly.

I was pointing out to the poster that, while Rozier runs a very basic offensive set and the assists he gets are mainly through the system, he was pretty good at running the point in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PickNRoll on July 02, 2018, 03:33:05 PM
There were plenty of games last year where the 1st unit wasn't executing and Smart came in and actually settled the OFFENSE down.  We got back to side-to-side motion, penetration, and doing things the Stevens way.  Smart may not be a good offensive player, but the stylistic differences between he and Kyrie/Rozier are important and Stevens uses it.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: dreamgreen on July 02, 2018, 04:19:32 PM
Agree with other folks - the most likely way this ends is with Marcus not getting the offers he wants from other teams or from us and taking the QO.  Which would be just fine for our purposes.
I do wonder if the C's are willing to offer 10-12 per year for 4 years. That would be around what he could potentially sign as an offer sheet given the other contracts given out.

C's aren't paying him $10-12m a year, no way in hell!! Look I understand lot of you are Smart lovers but while wearing that hat can you all please be realistic at the same time? He's a combo guard that can't shoot and turns it over a lot. Sure he brings a lot on defense and other areas but come on pleaseeee!! He has MLE written all over him!
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 02, 2018, 04:22:52 PM
Agree with other folks - the most likely way this ends is with Marcus not getting the offers he wants from other teams or from us and taking the QO.  Which would be just fine for our purposes.
I do wonder if the C's are willing to offer 10-12 per year for 4 years. That would be around what he could potentially sign as an offer sheet given the other contracts given out.

C's aren't paying him $10-12m a year, no way in hell!! Look I understand lot of you are Smart lovers but while wearing that hat can you call please be realistic at the same time?He's a combo guard that can't shoot and turns it over a lot. Sure he brings a lot on defense and other areas but come on pleaseeee!! He has MLE written all over him!
MLE is 8.641 million

So its not so far off. I think Will Barton is a pretty solid comparison for his level of player.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on July 02, 2018, 04:39:22 PM
There were plenty of games last year where the 1st unit wasn't executing and Smart came in and actually settled the OFFENSE down.  We got back to side-to-side motion, penetration, and doing things the Stevens way.  Smart may not be a good offensive player, but the stylistic differences between he and Kyrie/Rozier are important and Stevens uses it.

I've been saying since his 2nd year, he's a born leader. He's not the most talented guy on the floor but when he talks people listen because they seem him put his body on the line night in and night out and always put the team first.

I really hope he stays for a long time.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: ETNCeltics on July 02, 2018, 04:39:36 PM
Smart will have an interesting decision if he gets, say, a $9m/year offer. If he takes the QO, he may run into the same thing next summer. There will be more teams with cap room, but there will also be a lot more guys chasing those $s.

Plus, he could get a serious injury and lose an entire year of salary. Or things could transpire that he gets far less minutes this year. Or he could have an even worse year shooting (just kidding, that's impossible).
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 02, 2018, 04:43:11 PM
I think Fred Van Fleet got what 9 million a year.   Fleet is a better shooter, Marcus has him in most other areas but I think that is his market area maybe a little less or a little more. But that should set up his value.   
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Vermont Green on July 02, 2018, 04:45:52 PM
The Celtics can pay Smart about $8M before they hit the tax threshold.  Whether Smart is worth more or not is moot because I don't believe the Celtics are going to cross the tax cap to sign Smart.  If they go as high as $8M, they will be right up against the tax cap and would have very little flexibility for in-season moves.

Ojeleye and Nader are non-guaranteed (or partially guaranteed) so they can be used to free up a little more room under the tax cap if needed but there is not much money there with either contract (about $1.3M after guarantees).  It would be hardly worth it to release these guys for that kind of money.

A fair deal for Smart at this point might be 4 years, starting at $7.5M with an opt out after 2 seasons.  That would be a full contract in the range of $32M in case he got injured and an opt out at a point when salary cap will have gone up.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on July 02, 2018, 05:01:10 PM
Team defense was bad without Marcus.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 02, 2018, 05:03:13 PM
nm
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 02, 2018, 05:03:55 PM
nm
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 02, 2018, 07:12:14 PM
Agree with other folks - the most likely way this ends is with Marcus not getting the offers he wants from other teams or from us and taking the QO.  Which would be just fine for our purposes.

Agreed.
Title: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: cman88 on July 02, 2018, 10:38:00 PM
so far not a peep on that front....or even teams showing interest...

starting to think he will be back next year.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 02, 2018, 10:41:52 PM
Woj just tweeted he’s going to the Warriors for the vet min.



Kidding, I think.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 02, 2018, 10:44:59 PM
Most restricted free agents don’t get much interest the first couple days.  Once the moratorium is over we’ll see what the market is for RFA’s.  Could be rough this year tho.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: manl_lui on July 02, 2018, 10:45:23 PM
yea it's very very quiet with Smart, no news is good news? I was reading the longer this takes, the less likely someone will offer him a giant contract which forces his hand to settle for our QO
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on July 02, 2018, 10:47:07 PM
he d look stupid in a Pacers jersey


Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: hpantazo on July 02, 2018, 10:47:25 PM
Woj just tweeted he’s going to the Warriors for the vet min.



Kidding, I think.

And so are Brad Stevens and Tom Brady, and Gisele too
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: RJ87 on July 02, 2018, 10:48:58 PM
Did Happy Walters overpromise again? After the Nerlens Noel / Dallas stuff last year, seems like he's drastically misreading the market for his RFA clients.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 02, 2018, 10:50:08 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2784229-celtics-rumors-marcus-smart-is-bostons-top-priority-in-free-agency

Quote
Marcus Smart remains a restricted free agent, but the Boston Celtics reportedly don't want to let him get away.

According to Adam Himmelsbach of the Boston Globe, "Smart's free agency could linger for a while as he waits for a big-money offer. But have been hearing that he absolutely remains the Cs' top priority of the offseason."

Smart, 24, helped the Celtics reach the Eastern Conference Finals with his tenacious defense. While his counting stats don't jump off the page—he averaged 10.2 points, 4.8 assists, 3.5 rebounds and 1.3 steals while shooting only 30.1 percent from three—Smart's ability to guard multiple positions was huge for a Celtics team that thrived on its defense.

With Smart on the court, Boston limited opponents to a meager 99.4 points per 100 possessions, per NBA.com. When he sat, that number rose to 103.0.

Smart's impact on the Celtics defense is one of the reasons they'll likely make a strong push to keep him. And if he improves his perimeter shooting, he'll be an excellent three-and-D option capable of running the point and guarding nearly every position in a pinch.

Given the shrinking number of teams with available cap space, Smart may decide to sign his $6 million qualifying offer and hit unrestricted free agency next year, when the cap will rise and a number of teams should have more money to spend.

Unless an opposing team makes him a strong offer, Smart figures to be back in Boston next year one way or another.

This is all that I've seen on Smart.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Bobshot on July 02, 2018, 10:57:44 PM
I don't think Smart is going anywhere. The Celtics are now rated the #2 team behind GS.
That's enough to keep him in Boston.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Stig on July 03, 2018, 06:13:29 AM
AB just signed for 2year 25m, that's 12.5m/y, should set a market for Smart. AB is a better offensive player, Smart is younger but may have reached his ceiling. so 10m/y for Smart should be fair?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Alleyoopster on July 03, 2018, 06:20:14 AM
AB just signed for 2year 25m, that's 12.5m/y, should set a market for Smart. AB is a better offensive player, Smart is younger but may have reached his ceiling. so 10m/y for Smart should be fair?

Tough guessing what's fair....no offer would surprise me. 

Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Surferdad on July 03, 2018, 07:34:37 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2784229-celtics-rumors-marcus-smart-is-bostons-top-priority-in-free-agency

Quote
Marcus Smart remains a restricted free agent, but the Boston Celtics reportedly don't want to let him get away.

According to Adam Himmelsbach of the Boston Globe, "Smart's free agency could linger for a while as he waits for a big-money offer. But have been hearing that he absolutely remains the Cs' top priority of the offseason."

Smart, 24, helped the Celtics reach the Eastern Conference Finals with his tenacious defense. While his counting stats don't jump off the page—he averaged 10.2 points, 4.8 assists, 3.5 rebounds and 1.3 steals while shooting only 30.1 percent from three—Smart's ability to guard multiple positions was huge for a Celtics team that thrived on its defense.

With Smart on the court, Boston limited opponents to a meager 99.4 points per 100 possessions, per NBA.com. When he sat, that number rose to 103.0.

Smart's impact on the Celtics defense is one of the reasons they'll likely make a strong push to keep him. And if he improves his perimeter shooting, he'll be an excellent three-and-D option capable of running the point and guarding nearly every position in a pinch.

Given the shrinking number of teams with available cap space, Smart may decide to sign his $6 million qualifying offer and hit unrestricted free agency next year, when the cap will rise and a number of teams should have more money to spend.

Unless an opposing team makes him a strong offer, Smart figures to be back in Boston next year one way or another.

This is all that I've seen on Smart.
This is all you need to know:
1. Smart's value can be seen in defensive stats.  Some people claim it can't be quantified which I don't think is true.
2. He could get his payday next season when many teams will be flush with cash, by taking the QO.  This seems most likely, IMO.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 03, 2018, 04:15:58 PM
Indiana’s out of the running, Philly too.  ;D

AB just signed for 2year 25m, that's 12.5m/y, should set a market for Smart. AB is a better offensive player, Smart is younger but may have reached his ceiling. so 10m/y for Smart should be fair?

Good sign that AB only got 14M total guaranteed (year 2 is partially gtd)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PAOBoston on July 03, 2018, 04:36:35 PM
Cs are gonna get Smart on qualifying offer at this point
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 03, 2018, 04:55:37 PM
Been saying for a long time that I thought this would be an awful market for Smart and in it he was probably worth around the non-taxpayers MLE. I would have no problem bringing Smart back at his QO if he thinks he can finally start hitting shots to prove his value is over $10 million a year. I also have no problem returning him on a 4 year $7-8.5 million a year contract.

This is a perfect market for Danny to resign RFAs in. There's no money out there. Danny needs to squeeze Smart some to get a team friendly deal.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 03, 2018, 05:00:19 PM
Been saying for a long time that I thought this would be an awful market for Smart and in it he was probably worth around the non-taxpayers MLE. I would have no problem bringing Smart back at his QO if he thinks he can finally start hitting shots to prove his value is over $10 million a year. I also have no problem returning him on a 4 year $7-8.5 million a year contract.

This is a perfect market for Danny to resign RFAs in. There's no money out there. Danny needs to squeeze Smart some to get a team friendly deal.

Agreed.

Also, with so many guys taking 1-year deals (player options, non-guaranteed, etc.), there will be more players on the market next year. It will be another year of market correction.

I don't think Smart is getting "more than 12-14 million" money next year either.

He'd do well to sign his long-term deal at 8 million and enjoy playing for the EC rep in the finals the next 4 years. 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 03, 2018, 05:01:07 PM
Cs are gonna get Smart on qualifying offer at this point
I doubt it and I don't know why people view that as a good thing.  If he comes back on the QO he won't be happy, the rest of the team won't view his treatment positively, he could hold a grudge/feel slighted and leave as an unrestricted next year.  Imagine Smart, Irving and Rozier all testing a much larger free agent market next year??
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 03, 2018, 05:10:58 PM
Been saying for a long time that I thought this would be an awful market for Smart and in it he was probably worth around the non-taxpayers MLE. I would have no problem bringing Smart back at his QO if he thinks he can finally start hitting shots to prove his value is over $10 million a year. I also have no problem returning him on a 4 year $7-8.5 million a year contract.

This is a perfect market for Danny to resign RFAs in. There's no money out there. Danny needs to squeeze Smart some to get a team friendly deal.

DA can squeeze Smart into a 4 year deal starting at $8.6 MM and totaling $38.8 MM that keeps BOS out of the tax. (Assumes Morris stays, Bird is signed at his QO, Monroe and Larkin renounced, and Nader stretched. 15 contracts with 3 new faces. Supposedly there is some league interest in Bird, however, and he's gone if someone makes a better offer.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: RJ87 on July 03, 2018, 05:11:58 PM
Cs are gonna get Smart on qualifying offer at this point
I doubt it and I don't know why people view that as a good thing.  If he comes back on the QO he won't be happy, the rest of the team won't view his treatment positively, he could hold a grudge/feel slighted and leave as an unrestricted next year.  Imagine Smart, Irving and Rozier all testing a much larger free agent market next year??

Honestly, it's not the team's fault Marcus might not get the deal he wants. They offered an extension and his agent turned it down, saying he could get more in free agency. He actually went on record promising it would cost the team "a lot more money". If anything, Marcus should be mad at his agent for miscalculating the market.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Scintan on July 03, 2018, 05:16:00 PM
Cs are gonna get Smart on qualifying offer at this point
I doubt it and I don't know why people view that as a good thing.  If he comes back on the QO he won't be happy, the rest of the team won't view his treatment positively, he could hold a grudge/feel slighted and leave as an unrestricted next year.  Imagine Smart, Irving and Rozier all testing a much larger free agent market next year??

It doesn't really worry me.  Does it really worry you?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 03, 2018, 05:19:08 PM
Cs are gonna get Smart on qualifying offer at this point
I doubt it and I don't know why people view that as a good thing.  If he comes back on the QO he won't be happy, the rest of the team won't view his treatment positively, he could hold a grudge/feel slighted and leave as an unrestricted next year.  Imagine Smart, Irving and Rozier all testing a much larger free agent market next year??

It doesn't really worry me.  Does it really worry you?

Seriously. There was less money this year, so this class of free agents all mainly too 1-year deals, which means next years class will have twice as many free agents and a normal amount of money.

Next year will be another correction year.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on July 03, 2018, 05:20:17 PM
Pacers sign Tyeke Evans for $12 million.

I haven't done any cap math but that probably crosses them off the list of teams that could offer Smart more than what the Celtics would match (which I'm assuming is around $12-14 mil).
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 03, 2018, 05:25:10 PM
Pacers sign Tyeke Evans for $12 million.

I haven't done any cap math but that probably crosses them off the list of teams that could offer Smart more than what the Celtics would match (which I'm assuming is around $12-14 mil).

I would say now that Dallas and Indiana don’t have anything but exceptions, they are out of the running.

Who does that leave? Sacramento? Does that make sense for either party?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 03, 2018, 05:31:15 PM
Who does that leave? Sacramento? Does that make sense for either party?
Not really they're looking for a wing.

He's going to either take the QO or work out some sort of extension with the C's at this point.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 03, 2018, 05:34:34 PM
Who does that leave? Sacramento? Does that make sense for either party?
Not really they're looking for a wing.

He's going to either take the QO or work out some sort of extension with the C's at this point.

Sacramento reportedly didn't draft Doncic because they liked Fox as the primary ball-handler. I don't think they would sign Smart to take the ball out of his hands more.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 03, 2018, 05:52:32 PM
Been saying for a long time that I thought this would be an awful market for Smart and in it he was probably worth around the non-taxpayers MLE. I would have no problem bringing Smart back at his QO if he thinks he can finally start hitting shots to prove his value is over $10 million a year. I also have no problem returning him on a 4 year $7-8.5 million a year contract.

This is a perfect market for Danny to resign RFAs in. There's no money out there. Danny needs to squeeze Smart some to get a team friendly deal.

Can't ever see Smart being much more than he is now. His QO is the best he's going to do. Is he even meeting with anyone?
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: RJ87 on July 03, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MattyIce on July 03, 2018, 06:05:25 PM
Been saying for a long time that I thought this would be an awful market for Smart and in it he was probably worth around the non-taxpayers MLE. I would have no problem bringing Smart back at his QO if he thinks he can finally start hitting shots to prove his value is over $10 million a year. I also have no problem returning him on a 4 year $7-8.5 million a year contract.

This is a perfect market for Danny to resign RFAs in. There's no money out there. Danny needs to squeeze Smart some to get a team friendly deal.

Can't ever see Smart being much more than he is now. His QO is the best he's going to do. Is he even meeting with anyone?

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Sources: The Boston Celtics and Marcus Smart have had good dialogue on a new deal. Still not there, but neither side is in a rush. With cap space drying up around the league, it lessens need to rush to a new contract.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 03, 2018, 06:05:35 PM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.

Pffft and who is going to pay that aside from the C's? Let's not bid against ourselves here..
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 03, 2018, 06:14:42 PM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.

Pffft and who is going to pay that aside from the C's? Let's not bid against ourselves here..
It is NOT bidding against yourself.  If you don't pay them this year you will have to face paying them next year in a larger market as unrestricted free agents.  The deal you sign them to this year likely saves you money in future years.  Smart has very little incentive to take a below market deal.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: csfansince60s on July 03, 2018, 06:16:47 PM
I'd be shocked if Smart took the QO.

Ben Gordon and Greg Monroe are the only two players who have taken the QO and struck gold.

Reasons why Smart doesn't take the QO:

1. Hi playing style: which will never change, unless he's playing cautiously which is highly unlikely to happen. The more cautiously he plays. the less he's worth.

Smart's balls-to- the-wall playing style has made him susceptible to injury throughout his career. An injury during a QO year will make his stock plummet. Hard to see him chance that.

2. There are 4 teams left who can offer him more than the MLE: Philly, Hawks, Bulls and Kings. He will use them to leverage us, but will give us a hometown discount

I can see him getting 10-12 a year from us for 4 years=financial security for life.

I really fear that Philly squeezes us. I would hate to see him there. Maybe the Wilson Chandler acquisition chills Philly for us.

Bulls have Dunn and Payne and Grant and LaVine still hanging.

Hawks can offer the most.

Don't fear Sac....Smart would NEVER play for such an organization.

3. Ainge and Stevens love him as the heart and soul of the team. If push comes to shove, I see them matching up to 4 yrs/50mil or do a S&T.

Very very few players in any year play for the QO. Not only are you betting on yourself to take a big step forward, but you are also betting you wont be injured.

Smart is too smart for that.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 03, 2018, 06:18:51 PM
I'd be shocked if Smart took the QO.

Ben Gordon and Greg Monroe are the only two players who have taken the QO and struck gold.

Reasons why Smart doesn't take the QO:

1. Hi playing style: which will never change, unless he's playing cautiously which is highly unlikely to happen. The more cautiously he plays. the less he's worth.

Smart's balls-to- the-wall playing style has made him susceptible to injury throughout his career. An injury during a QO year will make his stock plummet. Hard to see him chance that.

2. There are 4 teams left who can offer him more than the MLE: Philly, Hawks, Bulls and Kings. He will use them to leverage us, but will give us a hometown discount

I can see him getting 10-12 a year from us for 4 years=financial security for life.

I really fear that Philly squeezes us. I would hate to see him there. Maybe the Wilson Chandler acquisition chills Philly for us.

Bulls have Dunn and Payne and Grant and LaVine still hanging.

Hawks can offer the most.

Don't fear Sac....Smart would NEVER play for such an organization.

3. Ainge and Stevens love him as the heart and soul of the team. If push comes to shove, I see them matching up to 4 yrs/50mil or do a S&T.

Very very few players in any year play for the QO. Not only are you betting on yourself to take a big step forward, but you are also betting you wont be injured.

Smart is too smart for that.

So Smart is worth double Baynes? This just seems like overpay to me..
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: jpotter33 on July 03, 2018, 06:21:14 PM
http://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1014262180206739457
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on July 03, 2018, 06:21:16 PM
Been saying for a long time that I thought this would be an awful market for Smart and in it he was probably worth around the non-taxpayers MLE. I would have no problem bringing Smart back at his QO if he thinks he can finally start hitting shots to prove his value is over $10 million a year. I also have no problem returning him on a 4 year $7-8.5 million a year contract.

This is a perfect market for Danny to resign RFAs in. There's no money out there. Danny needs to squeeze Smart some to get a team friendly deal.

Can't ever see Smart being much more than he is now. His QO is the best he's going to do. Is he even meeting with anyone?

Keith Smith

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Sources: The Boston Celtics and Marcus Smart have had good dialogue on a new deal. Still not there, but neither side is in a rush. With cap space drying up around the league, it lessens need to rush to a new contract.

I like that news. It makes it sound like both parties are focused on keeping Smart here now it's just a negotiation. Hopefully one that keeps him here for 4 years.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: PAOBoston on July 03, 2018, 06:22:53 PM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.
Smart vastly outplayed Exum over the course of their careers so far. If Exum gets 11 per, Smart must be looking for 14-15 per. Not sure the Cs go that far and I dont see any teams offering that either. Not

Smart might just bet on himself again and sign QO if Cs don't get close to what he wants.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: knuckleballer on July 03, 2018, 06:23:50 PM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.

Pffft and who is going to pay that aside from the C's? Let's not bid against ourselves here..
It is NOT bidding against yourself.  If you don't pay them this year you will have to face paying them next year in a larger market as unrestricted free agents.  The deal you sign them to this year likely saves you money in future years.  Smart has very little incentive to take a below market deal.

The Celtics may prefer paying less this year and more in the future.  They will be close to the luxury tax and will most certainly go well over the following season.  By staying under that this year, they can avoid the repeater penalty for a year. 

I can see Smart settling for the qualifying offer.  He seems to believe in himself and that he's a better shooter than his results have shown.  If he can get his 3 point percentage above 35%, he will get a large contract.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: jpotter33 on July 03, 2018, 06:25:48 PM
I'd be shocked if Smart took the QO.

Ben Gordon and Greg Monroe are the only two players who have taken the QO and struck gold.

Reasons why Smart doesn't take the QO:

1. Hi playing style: which will never change, unless he's playing cautiously which is highly unlikely to happen. The more cautiously he plays. the less he's worth.

Smart's balls-to- the-wall playing style has made him susceptible to injury throughout his career. An injury during a QO year will make his stock plummet. Hard to see him chance that.

2. There are 4 teams left who can offer him more than the MLE: Philly, Hawks, Bulls and Kings. He will use them to leverage us, but will give us a hometown discount

I can see him getting 10-12 a year from us for 4 years=financial security for life.

I really fear that Philly squeezes us. I would hate to see him there. Maybe the Wilson Chandler acquisition chills Philly for us.

Bulls have Dunn and Payne and Grant and LaVine still hanging.

Hawks can offer the most.

Don't fear Sac....Smart would NEVER play for such an organization.

3. Ainge and Stevens love him as the heart and soul of the team. If push comes to shove, I see them matching up to 4 yrs/50mil or do a S&T.

Very very few players in any year play for the QO. Not only are you betting on yourself to take a big step forward, but you are also betting you wont be injured.

Smart is too smart for that.

So Smart is worth double Baynes? This just seems like overpay to me..

Um, yes. Getting Smart for 4/40 would be a steal. In an era where perimeter offense rules the day, having a savvy, big, and versatile perimeter defender like Smart is essential. This kind of contract is even better looking given the uncertainty of Brown’s next contract if we max out Kyrie this summer.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 03, 2018, 06:26:55 PM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.
Smart vastly outplayed Exum over the course of their careers so far. If Exum gets 11 per, Smart must be looking for 14-15 per. Not sure the Cs go that far and I dont see any teams offering that either. Not

Smart might just bet on himself again and sign QO if Cs don't get close to what he wants.

"Vastly"

Exum is a far far better offensive player and it's not even close. Defensively Smart is better but not so much it takes away his offensive deficiencies.

Give me Exum all day,unless you're going to talk some "intangibles"...
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Neurotic Guy on July 03, 2018, 06:27:42 PM
I'd be shocked if Smart took the QO.

Ben Gordon and Greg Monroe are the only two players who have taken the QO and struck gold.

Reasons why Smart doesn't take the QO:

1. Hi playing style: which will never change, unless he's playing cautiously which is highly unlikely to happen. The more cautiously he plays. the less he's worth.

Smart's balls-to- the-wall playing style has made him susceptible to injury throughout his career. An injury during a QO year will make his stock plummet. Hard to see him chance that.

2. There are 4 teams left who can offer him more than the MLE: Philly, Hawks, Bulls and Kings. He will use them to leverage us, but will give us a hometown discount

I can see him getting 10-12 a year from us for 4 years=financial security for life.

I really fear that Philly squeezes us. I would hate to see him there. Maybe the Wilson Chandler acquisition chills Philly for us.

Bulls have Dunn and Payne and Grant and LaVine still hanging.

Hawks can offer the most.

Don't fear Sac....Smart would NEVER play for such an organization.

3. Ainge and Stevens love him as the heart and soul of the team. If push comes to shove, I see them matching up to 4 yrs/50mil or do a S&T.

Very very few players in any year play for the QO. Not only are you betting on yourself to take a big step forward, but you are also betting you wont be injured.

Smart is too smart for that.

So Smart is worth double Baynes? This just seems like overpay to me..

Doesn't sound too far off to me.  I think DA got a good deal on Baynes -- Smart much younger, still growing his game (IMO), and plays nearly twice the minutes Baynes does.  MPG will probably decrease, but Smart's value in the 4th is very high.  Marcus won't start, but he'll finish.   
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Vermont Green on July 03, 2018, 06:27:43 PM
I'd be shocked if Smart took the QO.

Ben Gordon and Greg Monroe are the only two players who have taken the QO and struck gold.

Reasons why Smart doesn't take the QO:

1. Hi playing style: which will never change, unless he's playing cautiously which is highly unlikely to happen. The more cautiously he plays. the less he's worth.

Smart's balls-to- the-wall playing style has made him susceptible to injury throughout his career. An injury during a QO year will make his stock plummet. Hard to see him chance that.

2. There are 4 teams left who can offer him more than the MLE: Philly, Hawks, Bulls and Kings. He will use them to leverage us, but will give us a hometown discount

I can see him getting 10-12 a year from us for 4 years=financial security for life.

I really fear that Philly squeezes us. I would hate to see him there. Maybe the Wilson Chandler acquisition chills Philly for us.

Bulls have Dunn and Payne and Grant and LaVine still hanging.

Hawks can offer the most.

Don't fear Sac....Smart would NEVER play for such an organization.

3. Ainge and Stevens love him as the heart and soul of the team. If push comes to shove, I see them matching up to 4 yrs/50mil or do a S&T.

Very very few players in any year play for the QO. Not only are you betting on yourself to take a big step forward, but you are also betting you wont be injured.

Smart is too smart for that.

This is a good summary of who has cap space left but keep in mind that Boston is approaching the Tax limit.  I don't see them going over the tax for Smart.  They probably don't need to.  It is not the money as much as starting the clock on the repeater status.  As I have said before, 4 years starting at $8M with an opt out after two years.  With annual escalation, that might end up at close to $37M for 4 years or if he plays well and stays healthy, he can opt out and go for a bigger contract in a better market.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Vermont Green on July 03, 2018, 06:30:54 PM
Doesn't sound too far off to me.  I think DA got a good deal on Baynes -- Smart much younger, still growing his game (IMO), and plays nearly twice the minutes Baynes does.  MPG will probably decrease, but Smart's value in the 4th is very high.  Marcus won't start, but he'll finish.

Are you sure?  Who will he play over in the 4th?  Probably not Kyrie or Brown.  Not over Tatum or Hayward.  I think that is the problem.  Unless someone is hurt, i don't think Smart is a game closer for us anymore.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 03, 2018, 06:33:55 PM
Doesn't sound too far off to me.  I think DA got a good deal on Baynes -- Smart much younger, still growing his game (IMO), and plays nearly twice the minutes Baynes does.  MPG will probably decrease, but Smart's value in the 4th is very high.  Marcus won't start, but he'll finish.

Are you sure?  Who will he play over in the 4th?  Probably not Kyrie or Brown.  Not over Tatum or Hayward.  I think that is the problem.  Unless someone is hurt, i don't think Smart is a game closer for us anymore.

With his ill-advised bricks, Smart is the last guy I want playing in crunch-time.

He's best utilized as a 2nd and 3rd qtr energy defense guy off the bench. Maybe situational defense in end of game situations.

Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Neurotic Guy on July 03, 2018, 06:36:53 PM
Thing that scares me about possibly losing Smart is that he and his agent have to see that his salary -- if in the 9-12 range -- quickly becomes a needed/movable salary in any attempt to acquire a high-priced player by trade.   That 9-12M salary number is something Danny actually needs.  If I'm Marcus I make a deal with myself -- hold out for a number you'll be OK with no matter where you play.   I think this factor puts the QO in play for Marcus -- the gamble may be worth it.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Stig on July 03, 2018, 06:37:29 PM
Agreed, smart is the guy who help us turn the momentum in the 2nd and 3rd quarter
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 03, 2018, 06:44:59 PM
Doesn't sound too far off to me.  I think DA got a good deal on Baynes -- Smart much younger, still growing his game (IMO), and plays nearly twice the minutes Baynes does.  MPG will probably decrease, but Smart's value in the 4th is very high.  Marcus won't start, but he'll finish.

Are you sure?  Who will he play over in the 4th?  Probably not Kyrie or Brown.  Not over Tatum or Hayward.  I think that is the problem.  Unless someone is hurt, i don't think Smart is a game closer for us anymore.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him play over Brown or Tatum.  Brad has a lot of confidence in him, as do his teammates.  It would depend a bit on matchup and game flow, but especially when up by a basket or two, he very well could see the floor.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: jpotter33 on July 03, 2018, 06:50:57 PM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.
Smart vastly outplayed Exum over the course of their careers so far. If Exum gets 11 per, Smart must be looking for 14-15 per. Not sure the Cs go that far and I dont see any teams offering that either. Not

Smart might just bet on himself again and sign QO if Cs don't get close to what he wants.

"Vastly"

Exum is a far far better offensive player and it's not even close. Defensively Smart is better but not so much it takes away his offensive deficiencies.

Give me Exum all day,unless you're going to talk some "intangibles"...

http://bkref.com/tiny/4b1Ne

“Far better offensive player”

What in the world are you smoking? That’s not even close to true; the most you can say is that he’s a slightly better shooter, which A) isn’t saying much, and B) is only a part of overall offensive game.

Look at the stats. You are highly overrating Exum and underrating Smart, who is much more impactful on the court than Exum. Only a biased Jazz fan would take Exum over Smart at this stage of their careers  ::)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: jpotter33 on July 03, 2018, 06:55:47 PM
Doesn't sound too far off to me.  I think DA got a good deal on Baynes -- Smart much younger, still growing his game (IMO), and plays nearly twice the minutes Baynes does.  MPG will probably decrease, but Smart's value in the 4th is very high.  Marcus won't start, but he'll finish.

Are you sure?  Who will he play over in the 4th?  Probably not Kyrie or Brown.  Not over Tatum or Hayward.  I think that is the problem.  Unless someone is hurt, i don't think Smart is a game closer for us anymore.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him play over Brown or Tatum.  Brad has a lot of confidence in him, as do his teammates.  It would depend a bit on matchup and game flow, but especially when up by a basket or two, he very well could see the floor.

Yeah, I think he’d play in most situations over Brown. In addition to D, being able to initiate the offense and play Kyrie off the ball is an added benefit that Brown can’t contribute.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: dreamgreen on July 03, 2018, 07:01:53 PM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.

Pffft and who is going to pay that aside from the C's? Let's not bid against ourselves here..
It is NOT bidding against yourself.  If you don't pay them this year you will have to face paying them next year in a larger market as unrestricted free agents.  The deal you sign them to this year likely saves you money in future years.  Smart has very little incentive to take a below market deal.

Exum hasn't done Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. yet and is not worth that money. Just because Utards threw money down the drain doesn't mean C's should. Can't overpay for a 6-8 man you guys have to think longer term/big picture KI has to get paid, JB and than Tatum after that.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: dreamgreen on July 03, 2018, 07:04:06 PM
Been saying for a long time that I thought this would be an awful market for Smart and in it he was probably worth around the non-taxpayers MLE. I would have no problem bringing Smart back at his QO if he thinks he can finally start hitting shots to prove his value is over $10 million a year. I also have no problem returning him on a 4 year $7-8.5 million a year contract.

This is a perfect market for Danny to resign RFAs in. There's no money out there. Danny needs to squeeze Smart some to get a team friendly deal.

Can't ever see Smart being much more than he is now. His QO is the best he's going to do. Is he even meeting with anyone?

Keith Smith

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@KeithSmithNBA
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Sources: The Boston Celtics and Marcus Smart have had good dialogue on a new deal. Still not there, but neither side is in a rush. With cap space drying up around the league, it lessens need to rush to a new contract.

I like that news. It makes it sound like both parties are focused on keeping Smart here now it's just a negotiation. Hopefully one that keeps him here for 4 years.

My offer is 5 years $40m and Smart should take it. It's a lot of money and he ain't getting any better or younger.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 03, 2018, 07:08:41 PM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.

Pffft and who is going to pay that aside from the C's? Let's not bid against ourselves here..
It is NOT bidding against yourself.  If you don't pay them this year you will have to face paying them next year in a larger market as unrestricted free agents.  The deal you sign them to this year likely saves you money in future years.  Smart has very little incentive to take a below market deal.

Exum hasn't done **** yet and is not worth that money. Just because Utards threw money down the drain doesn't mean C's should. Can't overpay for a 6-8 man you guys have to think longer term/big picture KI has to get paid, JB and than Tatum after that.

Don't forget C's have to make a decision on Rozier next summer as well. If Smart gets anything more than $10mm a year anywhere else he should go there..
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: mqtcelticsfan on July 03, 2018, 07:16:37 PM
Doesn't sound too far off to me.  I think DA got a good deal on Baynes -- Smart much younger, still growing his game (IMO), and plays nearly twice the minutes Baynes does.  MPG will probably decrease, but Smart's value in the 4th is very high.  Marcus won't start, but he'll finish.

Are you sure?  Who will he play over in the 4th?  Probably not Kyrie or Brown.  Not over Tatum or Hayward.  I think that is the problem.  Unless someone is hurt, i don't think Smart is a game closer for us anymore.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him play over Brown or Tatum.  Brad has a lot of confidence in him, as do his teammates.  It would depend a bit on matchup and game flow, but especially when up by a basket or two, he very well could see the floor.

Yeah, I think he’d play in most situations over Brown. In addition to D, being able to initiate the offense and play Kyrie off the ball is an added benefit that Brown can’t contribute.

Don’t forget we’ll have Hayward for creating offense as well. I’d think Brown’s ability to shoot would be more important in late game situations with Hayward and Kyrie.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Emmette Bryant on July 04, 2018, 10:51:08 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/1014256626948300800
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: hwangjini_1 on July 04, 2018, 10:54:35 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/1014256626948300800
the link above says:

It’s all but an official lock Marcus Smart will return to the #Celtics

if so, good news.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: tazzmaniac on July 04, 2018, 11:01:15 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/1014256626948300800
the link above says:

It’s all but an official lock Marcus Smart will return to the #Celtics

if so, good news.
But will it be for a multi-year deal or the QO? 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Sophomore on July 04, 2018, 11:19:40 AM
3 year, $33m deal for Dante Exum for Utah... Looks like Marcus's price range is $10m-12.5m per year.
Smart vastly outplayed Exum over the course of their careers so far. If Exum gets 11 per, Smart must be looking for 14-15 per. Not sure the Cs go that far and I dont see any teams offering that either. Not

Smart might just bet on himself again and sign QO if Cs don't get close to what he wants.

The other way to look at that is that Exum’s contract is in overpay. Teams make bad deals.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Chief Macho on July 04, 2018, 02:30:54 PM
I dont know how someone passes up 40 plus million.   Look what happened to Noel. 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Beat LA on July 04, 2018, 02:53:45 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/1014256626948300800

(http://users.content.ytmnd.com/c/f/f/cff52bf1a303bd0541558ce33a0abeee.jpg)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Monkhouse on July 04, 2018, 03:01:42 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/1014256626948300800

(http://users.content.ytmnd.com/c/f/f/cff52bf1a303bd0541558ce33a0abeee.jpg)

Sadly Beat LA, I don't quite share your enthusiasm.

(https://i.imgur.com/RCT1tRD.jpg)
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Beat LA on July 04, 2018, 03:04:32 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/1014256626948300800

(http://users.content.ytmnd.com/c/f/f/cff52bf1a303bd0541558ce33a0abeee.jpg)

Sadly Beat LA, I don't quite share your enthusiasm.

(https://i.imgur.com/RCT1tRD.jpg)

Lol, TP ;D.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Bobshot on July 04, 2018, 09:49:00 PM
Isn't this an old thread?

Not trusting ESPN because they never say anything good about any Boston team.

Besides, the way the current signings are going, the money is down and Smart will be lucky if he gets any $10mil offers. The big money goes to the O guys, not the D guys.

He'll stay a Celtic, because they'll have enough to pay him enough.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Phantom255x on July 04, 2018, 10:22:59 PM
Disappointed. Fireworks are blazing, and Smart still hasn't re-signed here? Bummer  :( :P

Anyways, I honestly feel a lot more confident we're bringing back Smart now. Idk if it's for the QO or some long term deal, but my hope is that we keep Smart at something around 3/33M, or 4 years at 44-48M (11-12M/Year). Might look like a lot now, but a few years from now could look like a bargain and I think at the right price, having someone like Smart on a championship team is vital.

We'd also stay under the tax this year, and if some disgruntled star does become available like 2 years from now, we could use Smart's salary to help facilitate a deal (as of now, we don't have any contract between 7-19M so it's hard to facilitate many deals w/o gutting our roster, as we've seen with Kawhi, Butler, Davis, etc. trade idea rumors).
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: MattyIce on July 04, 2018, 10:36:37 PM
Isn't this an old thread?

Not trusting ESPN because they never say anything good about any Boston team.

Besides, the way the current signings are going, the money is down and Smart will be lucky if he gets any $10mil offers. The big money goes to the O guys, not the D guys.

He'll stay a Celtic, because they'll have enough to pay him enough.

exum's contract helped him
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Csfan1984 on July 04, 2018, 10:45:14 PM
The longer things go the less likely a deal is done and he signs his QO
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: trickybilly on July 04, 2018, 11:08:41 PM
Disappointed. Fireworks are blazing, and Smart still hasn't re-signed here? Bummer  :( :P

Anyways, I honestly feel a lot more confident we're bringing back Smart now. Idk if it's for the QO or some long term deal, but my hope is that we keep Smart at something around 3/33M, or 4 years at 44-48M (11-12M/Year). Might look like a lot now, but a few years from now could look like a bargain and I think at the right price, having someone like Smart on a championship team is vital.

We'd also stay under the tax this year, and if some disgruntled star does become available like 2 years from now, we could use Smart's salary to help facilitate a deal (as of now, we don't have any contract between 7-19M so it's hard to facilitate many deals w/o gutting our roster, as we've seen with Kawhi, Butler, Davis, etc. trade idea rumors).

Pretty sure giving Marcus 12 mill puts us in the tax, unless Morris is traded.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 04, 2018, 11:10:41 PM
The longer things go the less likely a deal is done and he signs his QO

While this is true, four days is not very long.  Restricted free agents don’t normally agree with teams other than their own before the moratorium period ends, which this year occurs on Friday.  It’s possible he gets an offer from another team (one of Atlanta, Chicago, or Sacramento) over the weekend.  Not likely, but not impossible.

I’d be very surprised if he signed a QO before August 1st.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Csfan1984 on July 04, 2018, 11:15:37 PM
The longer things go the less likely a deal is done and he signs his QO

While this is true, four days is not very long.  Restricted free agents don’t normally agree with teams other than their own before the moratorium period ends, which this year occurs on Friday.  It’s possible he gets an offer from another team (one of Atlanta, Chicago, or Sacramento) over the weekend.  Not likely, but not impossible.

I’d be very surprised if he signed a QO before August 1st.
You're right he will wait as long as possible jic a team steps up.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 05, 2018, 12:56:27 AM
Doubt there are any offers coming for Smart. Nor do I expect BOS will finalize an offer to Smart until after the VSL ends on 7/17. After that, DA will figure out what the roster will be and who gets cut, stretched, or moved. That will give DA an amount to offer Smart and still stay under the luxury tax line. Then Smart has to make a decision as to whether to take the QO or the offer. I expect DA's offer will end up in the 4 years, $39-41 MM range, which Smart should take, but may not.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Chris22 on July 05, 2018, 02:47:35 AM
Doubt there are any offers coming for Smart. Nor do I expect BOS will finalize an offer to Smart until after the VSL ends on 7/17. After that, DA will figure out what the roster will be and who gets cut, stretched, or moved. That will give DA an amount to offer Smart and still stay under the luxury tax line. Then Smart has to make a decision as to whether to take the QO or the offer. I expect DA's offer will end up in the 4 years, $39-41 MM range, which Smart should take, but may not.

Smart is not worth that.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: makaveli on July 05, 2018, 04:45:08 AM
Doubt there are any offers coming for Smart. Nor do I expect BOS will finalize an offer to Smart until after the VSL ends on 7/17. After that, DA will figure out what the roster will be and who gets cut, stretched, or moved. That will give DA an amount to offer Smart and still stay under the luxury tax line. Then Smart has to make a decision as to whether to take the QO or the offer. I expect DA's offer will end up in the 4 years, $39-41 MM range, which Smart should take, but may not.

Smart is not worth that.

That is his bottom value IMO. I would love that contract
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: gouki88 on July 05, 2018, 04:50:01 AM
Doubt there are any offers coming for Smart. Nor do I expect BOS will finalize an offer to Smart until after the VSL ends on 7/17. After that, DA will figure out what the roster will be and who gets cut, stretched, or moved. That will give DA an amount to offer Smart and still stay under the luxury tax line. Then Smart has to make a decision as to whether to take the QO or the offer. I expect DA's offer will end up in the 4 years, $39-41 MM range, which Smart should take, but may not.

Smart is not worth that.

That is his bottom value IMO. I would love that contract
Yeah, around $10m/year for Smart would be awesome
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Green-18 on July 05, 2018, 07:01:33 AM
Doubt there are any offers coming for Smart. Nor do I expect BOS will finalize an offer to Smart until after the VSL ends on 7/17. After that, DA will figure out what the roster will be and who gets cut, stretched, or moved. That will give DA an amount to offer Smart and still stay under the luxury tax line. Then Smart has to make a decision as to whether to take the QO or the offer. I expect DA's offer will end up in the 4 years, $39-41 MM range, which Smart should take, but may not.

Smart is not worth that.

That is his bottom value IMO. I would love that contract
Yeah, around $10m/year for Smart would be awesome

Agreed.  I have a feeling that Smart would be willing to sign this type of deal if there's a player option after the 2nd year. 
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on July 05, 2018, 08:02:52 AM
I've said this before but I think a long term contract for Smart could help him a lot.

Generally, playing for a new contract gives players motivation and they do better. But Smart is unique. He doesn't need more motivation. He has the opposite problem where he often gets too intense and that's when he makes a lot of mistakes. Maybe a long term deal will give him a sense of comfort that won't diminish his drive but calm him to where he doesn't make so many of the frustrating mistake and loosen him up so his shooting improves to, like, mediocre.

That's my hope.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 05, 2018, 03:26:11 PM
I am starting to wonder why we haven't signed Marcus yet. I am not sure of timing of signings and how that works but is it possible he is not signed yet because he is on the table to the Spurs in a Kawhi deal (sign and trade) but the numbers and deal is not final until they can get all of the numbers and assets to work?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 05, 2018, 03:33:48 PM
I am starting to wonder why we haven't signed Marcus yet. I am not sure of timing of signings and how that works but is it possible he is not signed yet because he is on the table to the Spurs in a Kawhi deal (sign and trade) but the numbers and deal is not final until they can get all of the numbers and assets to work?

Players can’t sign officially until noon tomorrow.  Accordingly, if another team had interest in signing Smart, the clock on the Celtics matching or not wouldn’t start until noon tomorrow, even if he agreed to something on July 1st, so teams wouldn’t offer him anything.  While this is primarily why he’s not gotten an offer, it’s also a reason for his side to wait, in case the market moves for him once July 6th comes around.  I would have been very surprised if he agreed to a deal early (happy, but surprised).
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 05, 2018, 03:39:02 PM
I am starting to wonder why we haven't signed Marcus yet. I am not sure of timing of signings and how that works but is it possible he is not signed yet because he is on the table to the Spurs in a Kawhi deal (sign and trade) but the numbers and deal is not final until they can get all of the numbers and assets to work?

Players can’t sign officially until noon tomorrow.  Accordingly, if another team had interest in signing Smart, the clock on the Celtics matching or not wouldn’t start until noon tomorrow, even if he agreed to something on July 1st, so teams wouldn’t offer him anything.  While this is primarily why he’s not gotten an offer, it’s also a reason for his side to wait, in case the market moves for him once July 6th comes around.  I would have been very surprised if he agreed to a deal early (happy, but surprised).

Thank you Mr. Salt. TP
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: tstorey_97 on July 05, 2018, 03:46:11 PM
Tatum
Smart
Morris
Rozier

Celtic's bench....are you kidding me? They've all started a lot of playoff games and that's the bench.

(Yes, Baynes gets the first whatever minutes so Tatum comes off the bench...it'll be all right, calm down he'll still log more minutes than anyone on the team this season)



Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on July 05, 2018, 03:50:28 PM
ive given the green light to Danny to resign him.  ;)
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Monkhouse on July 05, 2018, 04:04:06 PM
One thing that people are seriously underrating is how much of an improved passer Smart has become. With the Celtics becoming Lob City 2.0, JB, Theis, Horford, Williams, Tatum, and a few others are going to feast on the easy lobs that Smart can just chuck out of nowhere. I can't wait to see him and Williams do well and mesh in terms of chemistry on 1st/2nd units.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: johnnygreen on July 05, 2018, 04:09:36 PM
Would it make sense for the Celtics and Marcus to do a 4 year $44M deal, with year four being a player option? I know he thinks he's worth $14M per year, but I'm also not aware of any offers to date. I'm not certain if he could get that ($14M/year) next year when more teams will supposedly have the cap space.

Assuming he signs a $44M deal, he would hypothetically make $11M in year one, and cummulatively have made $22M by year two, $33M by year three, and $44M by year four.

Now let's assume he signs the qualifying offer and gets a 3 year $42M deal next season. He would hypothetically make $6M this season, and cummulatively have made $20M by year two, $34M by year three, and $48M by year four.

After three years, that would only be a $1M difference, which could serve almost as an insurance policy. If he improves his shooting and maintains a high level of defense, then he could opt out and certainly make that $14M salary. I like it for the Celtics too, as not only would we still have Marcus but Danny also has the option of having a $11M salary player to include in trade talks, which is something the Celtics need.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 05, 2018, 04:27:35 PM
My hope is that the Celtics and Smart end up at an approximately 5/$52 million deal.  They could agree to this and stay under the tax by stretching/trading Nader.   It might be enough to keep Marcus with — if he accepted his qualifying offer he’d need to get 4 years/$46 million in free agency to make up the difference, with year one starting around $10.7 million.  He could get that, but there’s no guarantee.

That’s the figure I’m targeting — we’ll see where it comes out.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on July 05, 2018, 05:47:05 PM
My hope is that the Celtics and Smart end up at an approximately 5/$52 million deal.  They could agree to this and stay under the tax by stretching/trading Nader.   It might be enough to keep Marcus with — if he accepted his qualifying offer he’d need to get 4 years/$46 million in free agency to make up the difference, with year one starting around $10.7 million.  He could get that, but there’s no guarantee.

That’s the figure I’m targeting — we’ll see where it comes out.

How's that? I was at ~8 mil under the tax after renouncing Gibson, Larkin, Monroe, and then stretching Nader.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 05, 2018, 05:50:39 PM
My hope is that the Celtics and Smart end up at an approximately 5/$52 million deal.  They could agree to this and stay under the tax by stretching/trading Nader.   It might be enough to keep Marcus with — if he accepted his qualifying offer he’d need to get 4 years/$46 million in free agency to make up the difference, with year one starting around $10.7 million.  He could get that, but there’s no guarantee.

That’s the figure I’m targeting — we’ll see where it comes out.

How's that? I was at ~8 mil under the tax after renouncing Gibson, Larkin, Monroe, and then stretching Nader.

I don’t know.  I’m at $8.94 million after doing all that, which over 5 years gets you to $51.8 million or so.  Do you have Bird in your calculations?  I decided I was willing to sacrifice Jabari if it meant a 5-year deal for Marcus.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: The Oracle on July 05, 2018, 06:18:09 PM
Hey Saltlover.  What are your thoughts on an unlikely bonus being included in Smart's contract? 
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 05, 2018, 06:27:36 PM
Hey Saltlover.  What are your thoughts on an unlikely bonus being included in Smart's contract?

Living up to your username, you correctly divined that I have thought about it.  In general I’m not a fan of giving bonuses that you’re kind of hoping a player won’t reach, since if he does reach them then you’re in the luxury tax.  It’d certainly be permissible — I just don’t think it’s a good practice.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Snakehead on July 05, 2018, 06:35:02 PM
One thing that people are seriously underrating is how much of an improved passer Smart has become. With the Celtics becoming Lob City 2.0, JB, Theis, Horford, Williams, Tatum, and a few others are going to feast on the easy lobs that Smart can just chuck out of nowhere. I can't wait to see him and Williams do well and mesh in terms of chemistry on 1st/2nd units.

Also you really can use a guy like that with all these mouths to feed.  Not that he can't jack some shots himself but mostly he is very willing and like you say there will be even more lob potential.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 05, 2018, 06:35:50 PM
Ainge is letting him find out what he is worth and will sign him for less than he wants, I bet.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: The Oracle on July 05, 2018, 06:43:10 PM
Hey Saltlover.  What are your thoughts on an unlikely bonus being included in Smart's contract?

Living up to your username, you correctly divined that I have thought about it.  In general I’m not a fan of giving bonuses that you’re kind of hoping a player won’t reach, since if he does reach them then you’re in the luxury tax.  It’d certainly be permissible — I just don’t think it’s a good practice.
If you could write in like $1.5 million in unlikely bonuses that are achievable, you could adjust at the trade deadline if they appear likely and an adjustment is necessary?  Maybe 3%, a finals bonus or possibly minutes related at like 1700?  A contract similar to Olynyk's as a template, maybe slightly less?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 05, 2018, 06:44:01 PM
Hey Saltlover.  What are your thoughts on an unlikely bonus being included in Smart's contract?

Living up to your username, you correctly divined that I have thought about it.  In general I’m not a fan of giving bonuses that you’re kind of hoping a player won’t reach, since if he does reach them then you’re in the luxury tax.  It’d certainly be permissible — I just don’t think it’s a good practice.

Responding to myself, if you set a really high threshold in year one, and then lowered it in future years, it might work.  For example, a 15% bonus this year if he’s DPOY (probably not happening), and then a 15% bonus in subsequent years if he’s all-Defense (could happen some years.).
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 05, 2018, 06:45:19 PM
Hey Saltlover.  What are your thoughts on an unlikely bonus being included in Smart's contract?

Living up to your username, you correctly divined that I have thought about it.  In general I’m not a fan of giving bonuses that you’re kind of hoping a player won’t reach, since if he does reach them then you’re in the luxury tax.  It’d certainly be permissible — I just don’t think it’s a good practice.
If you could write in like $1.5 million in unlikely bonuses that are achievable, you could adjust at the trade deadline if they appear likely and an adjustment is necessary?  Maybe 3%, a finals bonus or possibly minutes related at like 1700?  A contract similar to Olynyk's as a template, maybe slightly less?

No, can’t do that.  You can’t adjust the contract and you certainly can’t game his minutes so as not to pay it.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: The Oracle on July 05, 2018, 06:55:42 PM
Hey Saltlover.  What are your thoughts on an unlikely bonus being included in Smart's contract?

Living up to your username, you correctly divined that I have thought about it.  In general I’m not a fan of giving bonuses that you’re kind of hoping a player won’t reach, since if he does reach them then you’re in the luxury tax.  It’d certainly be permissible — I just don’t think it’s a good practice.
If you could write in like $1.5 million in unlikely bonuses that are achievable, you could adjust at the trade deadline if they appear likely and an adjustment is necessary?  Maybe 3%, a finals bonus or possibly minutes related at like 1700?  A contract similar to Olynyk's as a template, maybe slightly less?

No, can’t do that.  You can’t adjust the contract and you certainly can’t game his minutes so as not to pay it.
Sorry I wasn't suggesting rewriting Smart's contract, I was suggesting trading someone else to get the C's under the tax, if necessary.  It is not even for sure the C's would have to do anything as they may find a deal that gets them a few million below the luxury tax anyway.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 05, 2018, 07:26:31 PM
Hey Saltlover.  What are your thoughts on an unlikely bonus being included in Smart's contract?

Living up to your username, you correctly divined that I have thought about it.  In general I’m not a fan of giving bonuses that you’re kind of hoping a player won’t reach, since if he does reach them then you’re in the luxury tax.  It’d certainly be permissible — I just don’t think it’s a good practice.
If you could write in like $1.5 million in unlikely bonuses that are achievable, you could adjust at the trade deadline if they appear likely and an adjustment is necessary?  Maybe 3%, a finals bonus or possibly minutes related at like 1700?  A contract similar to Olynyk's as a template, maybe slightly less?

No, can’t do that.  You can’t adjust the contract and you certainly can’t game his minutes so as not to pay it.
Sorry I wasn't suggesting rewriting Smart's contract, I was suggesting trading someone else to get the C's under the tax, if necessary.  It is not even for sure the C's would have to do anything as they may find a deal that gets them a few million below the cap anyway.

You could, but you might get caught holding the hot potato at the end of the year if Smart hits that incentive and you can’t find a place to trade him, which is really the same problem as guaranteeing the higher amount to begin with.  At the same time, you introduce an incentive that he might alter his playing style to make.  For example, if it’s a minutes threshold, does he dive on the ground to preserve himself a bit more?  Does he get upset at the end of the year if you cut minutes to rest for the playoffs and he’s close?  The reason I don’t like most incentives is that they often introduce perverse incentives, which is not what you want.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: The Oracle on July 05, 2018, 07:59:30 PM
Hey Saltlover.  What are your thoughts on an unlikely bonus being included in Smart's contract?

Living up to your username, you correctly divined that I have thought about it.  In general I’m not a fan of giving bonuses that you’re kind of hoping a player won’t reach, since if he does reach them then you’re in the luxury tax.  It’d certainly be permissible — I just don’t think it’s a good practice.
If you could write in like $1.5 million in unlikely bonuses that are achievable, you could adjust at the trade deadline if they appear likely and an adjustment is necessary?  Maybe 3%, a finals bonus or possibly minutes related at like 1700?  A contract similar to Olynyk's as a template, maybe slightly less?

No, can’t do that.  You can’t adjust the contract and you certainly can’t game his minutes so as not to pay it.
Sorry I wasn't suggesting rewriting Smart's contract, I was suggesting trading someone else to get the C's under the tax, if necessary.  It is not even for sure the C's would have to do anything as they may find a deal that gets them a few million below the cap anyway.

You could, but you might get caught holding the hot potato at the end of the year if Smart hits that incentive and you can’t find a place to trade him, which is really the same problem as guaranteeing the higher amount to begin with.  At the same time, you introduce an incentive that he might alter his playing style to make.  For example, if it’s a minutes threshold, does he dive on the ground to preserve himself a bit more?  Does he get upset at the end of the year if you cut minutes to rest for the playoffs and he’s close?  The reason I don’t like most incentives is that they often introduce perverse incentives, which is not what you want.
You are pretty much where I am as to unlikely bonuses then.  Smart is probably as difficult a player as there is to write them for.  I really like using them to sign someone under the cap but not so much around the luxury tax.  Still think the C's can easily remedy the luxury tax situation and get Smart payed at the same time.  If Ojeleye or Yabu develops there will be very little reason to keep Morris and trading his salary for a smaller one solves everything.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on July 05, 2018, 08:07:10 PM
My hope is that the Celtics and Smart end up at an approximately 5/$52 million deal.  They could agree to this and stay under the tax by stretching/trading Nader.   It might be enough to keep Marcus with — if he accepted his qualifying offer he’d need to get 4 years/$46 million in free agency to make up the difference, with year one starting around $10.7 million.  He could get that, but there’s no guarantee.

That’s the figure I’m targeting — we’ll see where it comes out.

How's that? I was at ~8 mil under the tax after renouncing Gibson, Larkin, Monroe, and then stretching Nader.

I don’t know.  I’m at $8.94 million after doing all that, which over 5 years gets you to $51.8 million or so.  Do you have Bird in your calculations?  I decided I was willing to sacrifice Jabari if it meant a 5-year deal for Marcus.

That was the difference.  I'm there now with 13 + Kadeem Allen.  Didn't realize we could reach that figure with the remaining space.  I think Smart has to eventually take it.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: nickagneta on July 05, 2018, 08:56:00 PM
I would have no trouble giving Smart a deal that starts at something that gets us close to the tax threshold and giving him 5 year. What does that come out to, about $51 million over 5 years. Also, give him a 15% trade clause kicker. That way if the Cs want to trade him his contract is worth more money going out and Smart makes more money
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: td450 on July 05, 2018, 09:16:59 PM
I know that many on this board believe in the importance of what Marcus has done for this team, but up until now, there hasn't been enough talent to cut into his minutes. Last year could have been a problem for him, but injuries gave him a reprieve. Next year he's likely looking at closer to 20 minutes or less, rather than the 30 he's accustomed to.

Terry Rozier is threatening to take his spot in the pecking order, and rather than using him as a small forward in spots, we will have log jams there too. After next year comes waves of draft picks, and because we are top contenders, vets will look to jump on for cheap one year deals.

This is just a long winded way of saying Marcus is not likely to get paid here. If he gets a $10M> deal, he will become a piece in a trade. There will suddenly be a lot of competition for the 6-7th man role here, and there will be some pretty good options that are much cheaper than he is.

Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 05, 2018, 09:20:36 PM
I would have no trouble giving Smart a deal that starts at something that gets us close to the tax threshold and giving him 5 year. What does that come out to, about $51 million over 5 years. Also, give him a 15% trade clause kicker. That way if the Cs want to trade him his contract is worth more money going out and Smart makes more money

It would not be worth more going out.  Trade bonuses only count for incoming salary, not outgoing.  I’m still fine with it because I like Smart.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Surferdad on July 05, 2018, 09:34:39 PM
I know that many on this board believe in the importance of what Marcus has done for this team, but up until now, there hasn't been enough talent to cut into his minutes. Last year could have been a problem for him, but injuries gave him a reprieve. Next year he's likely looking at closer to 20 minutes or less, rather than the 30 he's accustomed to.

Terry Rozier is threatening to take his spot in the pecking order, and rather than using him as a small forward in spots, we will have log jams there too. After next year comes waves of draft picks, and because we are top contenders, vets will look to jump on for cheap one year deals.

This is just a long winded way of saying Marcus is not likely to get paid here. If he gets a $10M> deal, he will become a piece in a trade. There will suddenly be a lot of competition for the 6-7th man role here, and there will be some pretty good options that are much cheaper than he is.
All that may come to pass, but I think we need to see how this roster works first and, hate to say it, but injuries could play a major role, as they did this season. IMO, keeping Smart for 2018-19 is a top priority.  Beyond that is hard to predict right now.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: celticinorlando on July 05, 2018, 09:36:40 PM
Per Murph:

NEW: Source says Marcus Smart has not heard from Celtics since start of free agency, and he's "hurt and disgusted."
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: gouki88 on July 05, 2018, 09:43:42 PM
Per Murph:

NEW: Source says Marcus Smart has not heard from Celtics since start of free agency, and he's "hurt and disgusted."
Uh oh
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 05, 2018, 09:45:03 PM
Per Murph:

NEW: Source says Marcus Smart has not heard from Celtics since start of free agency, and he's "hurt and disgusted."

This is different than other rumors.  My hope is that Danny has talked to his agent and was giving Smart space to be with family instead while the two parties work out preliminary negotiations.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: CelticD on July 05, 2018, 09:46:25 PM
Per Murph:

NEW: Source says Marcus Smart has not heard from Celtics since start of free agency, and he's "hurt and disgusted."

I ain't mad.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 05, 2018, 09:48:07 PM
Per Murph:

NEW: Source says Marcus Smart has not heard from Celtics since start of free agency, and he's "hurt and disgusted."

This is different than other rumors.  My hope is that Danny has talked to his agent and was giving Smart space to be with family instead while the two parties work out preliminary negotiations.

https://twitter.com/waltermccarty/status/1015048374976999424

Quote
Sources??? 😂 sources are funny people sometimes

This makes me feel a bit better. While not officially a part of the C's anymore, I think Walter would be a bit more informed about this than others.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 05, 2018, 09:56:01 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2018/07/marcus_smart_hurt_that_celtics_have_not_spoken_to_him_about_new_contract#.Wz7GNMax8FY.twitter

Quote
LAS VEGAS — Though the NBA marketplace has overflowed with activity since the opening of free agency on July 1, Marcus Smart and his negotiating team are still waiting for their first call from the Celtics.

And according to someone close to the Smart camp, who requested anonymity to comment on the situation, the Celts guard is frustrated with the lack of outreach from his team.

“He loves the Celtics, but with these crickets he’s hearing, he’s hurt and disgusted by it,” said the source.

Though fellow 2014 lottery alumnus Dante Exum signed an eye-opening three-year, $33 million contract with Utah, for the most part the market has been bearish for restricted free agents.

However, limited prospects aren’t the main issue behind Smart’s disillusionment.

“I don’t think that bothers Marcus as much as no communication from Danny (Ainge),” said the source.

Reached Thursday, Ainge, the Celts president of basketball operations, declined comment.

For now, the only tangible bid from the team remains the $6.05 million qualifying offer tendered on June 29 to retain matching rights. For a player who projects his value in the vicinity of $14 million to $15 million, the lack of anything beyond a qualifying offer is being taken as an insult.

“He would have thought there would have been some kind of three- to four-year deal from them to show they’re interested,” said the source. “But the qualifying offer is the only one he has received, and there’s been no talk since free agency opened. He’s most disappointed that there has been no reaching out from their end.

“He’s just hurt and frustrated that Danny hasn’t reached out. That’s the most discouraging part of this whole thing. The last contact was a few days before free agency started.”

Smart has been in Dallas with his mother, Camilla, helping her deal with the pain and debilitation from bone marrow cancer. He recently moved her into an apartment across the street from the Dallas area clinic where she is receiving chemotherapy treatment.

And Smart is still waiting for that call, now with a thought that he may indeed have to plan on unrestricted free agency next summer when NBA teams are expected to once again be flush with money.

“If that’s the indication the Celtics are giving him — a one-year deal –— then absolutely, yes, he’s prepared for it,” said the source. “And that doesn’t bode well for the Celtics if it comes down to that.”

Teammates reached out to Smart, showing support and expressing hope he gets the contract he deserves.

“It’s like Isaiah (Thomas) last year, Marcus has played through injury,” the source said. “He pushed himself to return early (from thumb surgery) in the playoffs, taking the gamble that he was healed enough to play. He pours his heart out every day for that team. He’s been hurt and quite frankly disgusted by how this has gone. But you know what else? He’s kind of over it. You have to move on.”

Much has been made of the deal signed by Exum, a lavish reward for a player who averaged only 40.5 games over his first four injury-marred seasons.

Exum’s money isn’t the problem.

“Marcus doesn’t look at it that way — Oh, look what Dante got — but he does look at what he brings to the table for (the Celtics),” the source said. “And anyone who knows Marcus knows that he brings it all the time. Everyone knows he loves Boston. It’s his kind of place — loyal fans, a hard-nosed group. But there has been no progress in negotiations, regardless of what you might have read. That’s very untrue.”

Yeah, I'm calling BS on this. Does anyone really believe that Danny hasn't at least talked to Marcus or his agent one time since free agency started? The dude picked up a phone call on draft night from Rozier five minutes before drafting!

This is Walters not liking the offers and trying to get them up. What a joke.

EDIT: That last part has Walters written all over it.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Eja117 on July 05, 2018, 10:24:30 PM
Well. Actually Smart said he was worth more than $14mill and we have the right to match so I can easily see Ainge not calling him. You call us.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: playdream on July 05, 2018, 10:53:03 PM
Don't care either way, if it's true, then he isn't "all about winning" instead "all about money"
(so what do Smart sacrifice really if all the hustle is for the money?)

Then i don't really want him here long term

It will only look bad on Smart's part
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: knuckleballer on July 05, 2018, 10:57:07 PM
Don't care either way, if it's true, then he isn't "all about winning" instead "all about money"
(so what do Smart sacrifice really if all the hustle is for the money?)

Then i don't really want him here long term

It will only look bad on Smart's part

I don't agree at all.  Money should be a major factor for him.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: ManUp on July 05, 2018, 11:00:38 PM
Whether or not it's true it seems like Marcus screwed himself when he decided not to take Danny's offer last years which I think was 13-14 range.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: playdream on July 05, 2018, 11:02:28 PM
Don't care either way, if it's true, then he isn't "all about winning" instead "all about money"
(so what do Smart sacrifice really if all the hustle is for the money?)

Then i don't really want him here long term

It will only look bad on Smart's part

I don't agree at all.  Money should be a major factor for him.
True, but that's his choice not ours to make. we made our offers,take it or leave it
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 05, 2018, 11:09:21 PM
Whether or not it's true it seems like Marcus screwed himself when he decided not to take Danny's offer last years which I think was 13-14 range.

Yep. I don’t think Smart’s quote about “$12 - $14M” was arbitrary. I think that’s exactly the type of contract he was being offered and refused during the extension talks. Danny now has no pressure given that the market isn’t forcing his hand like Smart was hoping.

Still think a deal gets done around $12M for 4 years.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: RJ87 on July 05, 2018, 11:37:35 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2018/07/marcus_smart_hurt_that_celtics_have_not_spoken_to_him_about_new_contract#.Wz7GNMax8FY.twitter

Quote
LAS VEGAS — Though the NBA marketplace has overflowed with activity since the opening of free agency on July 1, Marcus Smart and his negotiating team are still waiting for their first call from the Celtics.

And according to someone close to the Smart camp, who requested anonymity to comment on the situation, the Celts guard is frustrated with the lack of outreach from his team.

“He loves the Celtics, but with these crickets he’s hearing, he’s hurt and disgusted by it,” said the source.

Though fellow 2014 lottery alumnus Dante Exum signed an eye-opening three-year, $33 million contract with Utah, for the most part the market has been bearish for restricted free agents.

However, limited prospects aren’t the main issue behind Smart’s disillusionment.

“I don’t think that bothers Marcus as much as no communication from Danny (Ainge),” said the source.

Reached Thursday, Ainge, the Celts president of basketball operations, declined comment.

For now, the only tangible bid from the team remains the $6.05 million qualifying offer tendered on June 29 to retain matching rights. For a player who projects his value in the vicinity of $14 million to $15 million, the lack of anything beyond a qualifying offer is being taken as an insult.

“He would have thought there would have been some kind of three- to four-year deal from them to show they’re interested,” said the source. “But the qualifying offer is the only one he has received, and there’s been no talk since free agency opened. He’s most disappointed that there has been no reaching out from their end.

“He’s just hurt and frustrated that Danny hasn’t reached out. That’s the most discouraging part of this whole thing. The last contact was a few days before free agency started.”

Smart has been in Dallas with his mother, Camilla, helping her deal with the pain and debilitation from bone marrow cancer. He recently moved her into an apartment across the street from the Dallas area clinic where she is receiving chemotherapy treatment.

And Smart is still waiting for that call, now with a thought that he may indeed have to plan on unrestricted free agency next summer when NBA teams are expected to once again be flush with money.

“If that’s the indication the Celtics are giving him — a one-year deal –— then absolutely, yes, he’s prepared for it,” said the source. “And that doesn’t bode well for the Celtics if it comes down to that.”

Teammates reached out to Smart, showing support and expressing hope he gets the contract he deserves.

“It’s like Isaiah (Thomas) last year, Marcus has played through injury,” the source said. “He pushed himself to return early (from thumb surgery) in the playoffs, taking the gamble that he was healed enough to play. He pours his heart out every day for that team. He’s been hurt and quite frankly disgusted by how this has gone. But you know what else? He’s kind of over it. You have to move on.”

Much has been made of the deal signed by Exum, a lavish reward for a player who averaged only 40.5 games over his first four injury-marred seasons.

Exum’s money isn’t the problem.

“Marcus doesn’t look at it that way — Oh, look what Dante got — but he does look at what he brings to the table for (the Celtics),” the source said. “And anyone who knows Marcus knows that he brings it all the time. Everyone knows he loves Boston. It’s his kind of place — loyal fans, a hard-nosed group. But there has been no progress in negotiations, regardless of what you might have read. That’s very untrue.”

Yeah, I'm calling BS on this. Does anyone really believe that Danny hasn't at least talked to Marcus or his agent one time since free agency started? The dude picked up a phone call on draft night from Rozier five minutes before drafting!

This is Walters not liking the offers and trying to get them up. What a joke.

EDIT: That last part has Walters written all over it.

It reeks of Happy Walters. He pulled the same crap with Nerlens Noel last offseason.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 05, 2018, 11:45:51 PM
What's Ainge supposed to do? I know Smart isn't this dumb.

Ainge is going to have 3 max guys next year, and 4 the year after that.

He still has to pay Rozier and secure another big to play with Baynes and Horford as they age (Williams?).

I love Smart as much as anyone, but grit isn't worth as much as stars.

I want him back, but he needs to be back on a grit contract. He's not a star and can't demand star money.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 05, 2018, 11:47:33 PM
$12-14M per is a lot for a defensive specialist. While I know he is an elite defender, he is still a rather poor offensive player.

When a defensive guy like Baynes less than half that, it makes you wonder how much is Smart really worth?

I guess you can pay for the potential that he puts it together offensively, but he’s made little progress in his shot during his NBA tenure.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: colincb on July 06, 2018, 02:10:00 AM
If any team thought Smart was worth $14MM, that team would have made an offer knowing that BOS would have been hard-pressed to match and stay out of the lux tax. Everyone knows what everybody else has to spend. It's not rocket science to the people who have to deal with cap issues as a big part of their job.

Don't assume that Smart's going to get a long-term offer from BOS either. The heart and soul of the team has a nice ring to it, but the heart, soul, and future of the Cs are the three UFAs they’ve acquired along with Tatum and Brown. Smart's not going to get the same minutes as last year and Danny may well go for someone who can spark the second unit instead.

I still think Danny's intends to re-sign Smart at a number that both sides can live with and that will keep the Cs out of the lux tax this year. Nonetheless, Danny will do what he thinks is in the Celtics' best interest and in Danny I trust a lot more than Smart and, especially, Smart's agent.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: vjcsmoke on July 06, 2018, 02:23:52 AM
I'd offer Smart 3 years/33 million dollars.  This precedent already set by Dante Exum.

If he wants, give Marcus an opt out after 2 years so he can chase dollars relatively quickly if he believes he can get more later.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 06, 2018, 02:29:30 AM
If any team thought Smart was worth $14MM, that team would have made an offer knowing that BOS would have been hard-pressed to match and stay out of the lux tax. Everyone knows what everybody else has to spend. It's not rocket science to the people who have to deal with cap issues as a big part of their job.

Don't assume that Smart's going to get a long-term offer from BOS either. The heart and soul of the team has a nice ring to it, but the heart, soul, and future of the Cs are the three UFAs they’ve acquired along with Tatum and Brown. Smart's not going to get the same minutes as last year and Danny may well go for someone who can spark the second unit instead.

I still think Danny's intends to re-sign Smart at a number that both sides can live with and that will keep the Cs out of the lux tax this year. Nonetheless, Danny will do what he thinks is in the Celtics' best interest and in Danny I trust a lot more than Smart and, especially, Smart's agent.

I only half agree with you.  Teams that might have been interested in Smart, most notably Indiana, had the choice of making a reasonable offer that the Celtics might match, even if difficult for them.  However, doing so would have tied the team’s negotiable cap space up until this Sunday, when other potential targets might have been long off the board.  There’s a reason that all the major free agents that are left are restricted ones, and that’s because no one is going to sign those players until after the moratorium period is over in 10 hours.  This year almost all the money has dried up, however.

I also feel Ainge is willing to match a Smart offer that takes the team reasonably into the tax.  The Celtics rightfully believe they have a championship contender, and you don’t let an important, even if not most important, piece walk away because you’re worried about paying the repeater tax four years from now.  The preference is of course to avoid that, but if Smart got his $14 million I really believe the team would match.  Of course, this in itself helps to keep Smart from getting that offer, because no one wants to help Ainge sign Smart to a long-term deal.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 06, 2018, 02:43:49 AM
Another data point that this “rumor” that the Celtics haven’t talked to Smart (or his team) since free agency began is bunk:  Happy Walters is also the agent for newest Celtic Brad Wanamaker.  Certainly they’ve been in contact.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: colincb on July 06, 2018, 02:48:06 AM
If any team thought Smart was worth $14MM, that team would have made an offer knowing that BOS would have been hard-pressed to match and stay out of the lux tax. Everyone knows what everybody else has to spend. It's not rocket science to the people who have to deal with cap issues as a big part of their job.

Don't assume that Smart's going to get a long-term offer from BOS either. The heart and soul of the team has a nice ring to it, but the heart, soul, and future of the Cs are the three UFAs they’ve acquired along with Tatum and Brown. Smart's not going to get the same minutes as last year and Danny may well go for someone who can spark the second unit instead.

I still think Danny's intends to re-sign Smart at a number that both sides can live with and that will keep the Cs out of the lux tax this year. Nonetheless, Danny will do what he thinks is in the Celtics' best interest and in Danny I trust a lot more than Smart and, especially, Smart's agent.

I only half agree with you.  Teams that might have been interested in Smart, most notably Indiana, had the choice of making a reasonable offer that the Celtics might match, even if difficult for them.  However, doing so would have tied the team’s negotiable cap space up until this Sunday, when other potential targets might have been long off the board.  There’s a reason that all the major free agents that are left are restricted ones, and that’s because no one is going to sign those players until after the moratorium period is over in 10 hours.  This year almost all the money has dried up, however.

I also feel Ainge is willing to match a Smart offer that takes the team reasonably into the tax.  The Celtics rightfully believe they have a championship contender, and you don’t let an important, even if not most important, piece walk away because you’re worried about paying the repeater tax four years from now.  The preference is of course to avoid that, but if Smart got his $14 million I really believe the team would match.  Of course, this in itself helps to keep Smart from getting that offer, because no one wants to help Ainge sign Smart to a long-term deal.

We're far apart on our thinking about the Cs willingness to dip a toe into the luxury tax this year to sign Smart. There's no need to and the cost is prohibitive down the road because you're bound to get hit with an extra year of luxury tax at a substantial amount. You don't go into the tax for $3 or $4 million to keep Smart happy, especially if that's not the market for his talents.

Don't think the league has felt the full effect of the luxury tax system yet, but we can already see that OKC can cut Melo outright and save over $100 million. That's a sobering eye-opener of how the tax escalates.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: colincb on July 06, 2018, 03:09:39 AM
One last thought about the luxury tax. GSW's bill is going to skyrocket too, but they're trying to sell seats to a new arena and they have to have a Championship team to justify the high ticket prices. Cannot imagine the Cs going that deep into the tax, unless they start thinking about their own arena.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/ostler/article/Warriors-new-arena-gives-some-season-12720962.php
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: KGs Knee on July 06, 2018, 03:10:51 AM
If Smart really feels like he's being undervalued he should just take the QO and become a UFA next summer.

Honestly, I wish more RFAs would 'bet on themselves' and do this.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: trickybilly on July 06, 2018, 04:11:56 AM
Well, 60 hours left to match any offers for Marcus. Crickets...

Is it possible that noone has made an offer above the MLE? Is that why we are hearing nothing?

Surely Marcus' agent is taking meetings... and if so, why wouldn't they just concoct rumors to drive up the price?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: tazzmaniac on July 06, 2018, 07:10:04 AM
Well, 60 hours left to match any offers for Marcus. Crickets...

Is it possible that noone has made an offer above the MLE? Is that why we are hearing nothing?

Surely Marcus' agent is taking meetings... and if so, why wouldn't they just concoct rumors to drive up the price?
That is almost certainly the case.  Teams generally don't go after other teams' RFAs.  When they do, it isn't for a defensive specialist like Smart.  There are now only 3 teams with cap space above MLE: Kings, Bulls and Hawks.  There is no reason for any of those teams to go after Smart.   

Concocting rumors wouldn't help.  There has to be an actual contract offer from another team and then there would be 3 days to match.  Ainge is smart enough to know the market.  He's not going to bid against himself. 
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: IDreamCeltics on July 06, 2018, 07:29:38 AM
Here's one.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-marcus-smart-hurt-and-disgusted-with-celtics-danny-ainge/ar-AAzEp0k?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Surferdad on July 06, 2018, 07:34:38 AM
Well, 60 hours left to match any offers for Marcus. Crickets...

Is it possible that noone has made an offer above the MLE? Is that why we are hearing nothing?

Surely Marcus' agent is taking meetings... and if so, why wouldn't they just concoct rumors to drive up the price?
That is almost certainly the case.  Teams generally don't go after other teams' RFAs.  When they do, it isn't for a defensive specialist like Smart.  There are now only 3 teams with cap space above MLE: Kings, Bulls and Hawks.  There is no reason for any of those teams to go after Smart.   

Concocting rumors wouldn't help.  There has to be an actual contract offer from another team and then there would be 3 days to match.  Ainge is smart enough to know the market.  He's not going to bid against himself.
This.  The QO is way below his market value.  He may not be building a relationship with Smart, but he is running a business.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Surferdad on July 06, 2018, 07:37:17 AM
Here's one.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-marcus-smart-hurt-and-disgusted-with-celtics-danny-ainge/ar-AAzEp0k?ocid=spartanntp
That's a story about a story.  Nothing new, just lazy journalism.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: colincb on July 06, 2018, 08:10:23 AM
All the players getting one-year contracts this year will be free agents again next along with the normal free agent class. More cap money. More free agents chasing it. If Smart gets a compromise deal in the $39-41 MM range for 4 years, and I think he will, he should take it.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 06, 2018, 08:23:22 AM
If any team thought Smart was worth $14MM, that team would have made an offer knowing that BOS would have been hard-pressed to match and stay out of the lux tax. Everyone knows what everybody else has to spend. It's not rocket science to the people who have to deal with cap issues as a big part of their job.

Don't assume that Smart's going to get a long-term offer from BOS either. The heart and soul of the team has a nice ring to it, but the heart, soul, and future of the Cs are the three UFAs they’ve acquired along with Tatum and Brown. Smart's not going to get the same minutes as last year and Danny may well go for someone who can spark the second unit instead.

I still think Danny's intends to re-sign Smart at a number that both sides can live with and that will keep the Cs out of the lux tax this year. Nonetheless, Danny will do what he thinks is in the Celtics' best interest and in Danny I trust a lot more than Smart and, especially, Smart's agent.

I only half agree with you.  Teams that might have been interested in Smart, most notably Indiana, had the choice of making a reasonable offer that the Celtics might match, even if difficult for them.  However, doing so would have tied the team’s negotiable cap space up until this Sunday, when other potential targets might have been long off the board.  There’s a reason that all the major free agents that are left are restricted ones, and that’s because no one is going to sign those players until after the moratorium period is over in 10 hours.  This year almost all the money has dried up, however.

I also feel Ainge is willing to match a Smart offer that takes the team reasonably into the tax.  The Celtics rightfully believe they have a championship contender, and you don’t let an important, even if not most important, piece walk away because you’re worried about paying the repeater tax four years from now.  The preference is of course to avoid that, but if Smart got his $14 million I really believe the team would match.  Of course, this in itself helps to keep Smart from getting that offer, because no one wants to help Ainge sign Smart to a long-term deal.

We're far apart on our thinking about the Cs willingness to dip a toe into the luxury tax this year to sign Smart. There's no need to and the cost is prohibitive down the road because you're bound to get hit with an extra year of luxury tax at a substantial amount. You don't go into the tax for $3 or $4 million to keep Smart happy, especially if that's not the market for his talents.

Don't think the league has felt the full effect of the luxury tax system yet, but we can already see that OKC can cut Melo outright and save over $100 million. That's a sobering eye-opener of how the tax escalates.

A few of things:

Firstly, it’s very hard to predict four years into the future when you might care about the repeater tax.  Does Irving leave next year? Does Horford (in 2019 or 2020?) Does Hayward fully recover?  Losing any of those three will probably knock you below the tax.  Furthermore, Horford and Hayward will both be hitting their 4th contract next time around — if you’ve been spending to put together a championship team, do either work with you to make certain their salaries don’t prevent the extension of another key contributor earlier in his career?  And then there’s the possibility of a potential revenue spike coming in due to gambling revenues.  If that spike comes 3-4 years from now, it can also alleviate the issue, either by taking the team below the tax or to an affordable level.

Additionally, let’s talk about market value.  Firstly, I said that Ainge would likely be willing to match a contract of a higher amount than he’s willing to offer, even if it meant going into the tax.  That is, in fact, market value.  Secondly, market value this year and next year might not be the same.  This year Smart will not get offers because Ainge has the right of first refusal, and teams are wary of giving Smart an offer that Ainge would match, because that means they’ve helped the Celtics resign Smart.  Next year, no such right of first refusal will exist, at the same time a ton of teams will have cap room.  His market value next year could be substantial, and getting something done this summer could allow you to keep him down the road.  None of us know whether the Celtics truly want to keep him for many more years, but if they do, going a little higher this year is not bidding against yourself — it’s bidding against the existential threat posed by unrestricted free agency and next year’s cap space.

Finally, I’m going to reiterate this.  If the Celtics truly think they have a team with a real chance to win the title (and from all info they do feel this, and outside observers seem to agree with this assessment that they should feel this way) you pay to keep that opportunity.  It’s what the last 5 years have been about, to get to this point.  You don’t bail on that because you’re worried about the luxury tax in four years.  Not with all the uncertainty described above.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Fafnir on July 06, 2018, 08:40:47 AM
Other reporters and Walter McCarty https://twitter.com/waltermccarty/status/1015048374976999424

have refuted the no contact report. While I don't doubt Marcus is unhappy with the long process (RFA is a drag) him and the C's are talking or at least the C's and his agent.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 06, 2018, 08:58:46 AM
So what is the most we can realistically offer Smart and stay out of the tax this year, either through staying out of the tax right now or trading non-essential pieces later in the year before the deadline?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 06, 2018, 09:58:32 AM
So what is the most we can realistically offer Smart and stay out of the tax this year, either through staying out of the tax right now or trading non-essential pieces later in the year before the deadline?

We can offer Smart right around 5 years, $52 million guaranteed by stretching or trading Nader (the difference is about $400k over the life of the contract if he’s stretched or traded).  We can also give him a trade bonus of 15%.  Finally, we can offer him performance bonuses of up to 15% a year. It’s not clear to me how... aggressive... the team can be with these.  For example, could we offer him a bonus this year of 15% if he gets DPOY.  That’s highly unlikely to happen, and if Smart played so well that he earned DPOY, I think you have to be okay with eating the luxury tax because that happened.  The question that I have not been able to answer yet is how easy can subsequent bonuses be to attain.  Can it be a simple playing time bonus (say, 1000 minutes played) or a team success bonus (make the playoffs)?  Or would it also have to be something considered “unlikely.”  The CBA seems to be silent about this.  I do know that bonuses don’t have to be uniform throughout the life of the contract, but at a certain point you get to rules circumvention and a disallowed contract.

Anyway, if you’re allowed to do a funky bonus regime (something that he’s not hitting this year, but something that is highly likely in future years) you’re getting to around 5 years, $58.5 million while staying under the tax.  That bonus regime is probably not allowed, but something in the middle might be (1st team defense AND 2300 minutes played this year, All-NBA defense OR 1800 minutes subsequent years).  All are considered unlikely, but Smart could reasonably expect to hit those thresholds in some future years, and has a chance to hit it this year.

Also, a player option can always sweeten the pot.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 06, 2018, 11:29:30 AM
So what is the most we can realistically offer Smart and stay out of the tax this year, either through staying out of the tax right now or trading non-essential pieces later in the year before the deadline?

We can offer Smart right around 5 years, $52 million guaranteed by stretching or trading Nader (the difference is about $400k over the life of the contract if he’s stretched or traded).  We can also give him a trade bonus of 15%.  Finally, we can offer him performance bonuses of up to 15% a year. It’s not clear to me how... aggressive... the team can be with these.  For example, could we offer him a bonus this year of 15% if he gets DPOY.  That’s highly unlikely to happen, and if Smart played so well that he earned DPOY, I think you have to be okay with eating the luxury tax because that happened.  The question that I have not been able to answer yet is how easy can subsequent bonuses be to attain.  Can it be a simple playing time bonus (say, 1000 minutes played) or a team success bonus (make the playoffs)?  Or would it also have to be something considered “unlikely.”  The CBA seems to be silent about this.  I do know that bonuses don’t have to be uniform throughout the life of the contract, but at a certain point you get to rules circumvention and a disallowed contract.

Anyway, if you’re allowed to do a funky bonus regime (something that he’s not hitting this year, but something that is highly likely in future years) you’re getting to around 5 years, $58.5 million while staying under the tax.  That bonus regime is probably not allowed, but something in the middle might be (1st team defense AND 2300 minutes played this year, All-NBA defense OR 1800 minutes subsequent years).  All are considered unlikely, but Smart could reasonably expect to hit those thresholds in some future years, and has a chance to hit it this year.

Also, a player option can always sweeten the pot.

TP. Super knowledgeable about this stuff, per usual.

Why was I thinking that we couldn’t offer him a five year less-than-max deal? Perhaps that’s only w/ rookie scale extensions that I’m thinking about?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 06, 2018, 11:36:09 AM
So what is the most we can realistically offer Smart and stay out of the tax this year, either through staying out of the tax right now or trading non-essential pieces later in the year before the deadline?

We can offer Smart right around 5 years, $52 million guaranteed by stretching or trading Nader (the difference is about $400k over the life of the contract if he’s stretched or traded).  We can also give him a trade bonus of 15%.  Finally, we can offer him performance bonuses of up to 15% a year. It’s not clear to me how... aggressive... the team can be with these.  For example, could we offer him a bonus this year of 15% if he gets DPOY.  That’s highly unlikely to happen, and if Smart played so well that he earned DPOY, I think you have to be okay with eating the luxury tax because that happened.  The question that I have not been able to answer yet is how easy can subsequent bonuses be to attain.  Can it be a simple playing time bonus (say, 1000 minutes played) or a team success bonus (make the playoffs)?  Or would it also have to be something considered “unlikely.”  The CBA seems to be silent about this.  I do know that bonuses don’t have to be uniform throughout the life of the contract, but at a certain point you get to rules circumvention and a disallowed contract.

Anyway, if you’re allowed to do a funky bonus regime (something that he’s not hitting this year, but something that is highly likely in future years) you’re getting to around 5 years, $58.5 million while staying under the tax.  That bonus regime is probably not allowed, but something in the middle might be (1st team defense AND 2300 minutes played this year, All-NBA defense OR 1800 minutes subsequent years).  All are considered unlikely, but Smart could reasonably expect to hit those thresholds in some future years, and has a chance to hit it this year.

Also, a player option can always sweeten the pot.

TP. Super knowledgeable about this stuff, per usual.

Why was I thinking that we couldn’t offer him a five year less-than-max deal? Perhaps that’s only w/ rookie scale extensions that I’m thinking about?

Yes, the 5-year limit with extensions is for max extensions only off rookie deals.  Once you hit free agency, you can go 5 years with Bird rights, as we did with Crowder 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Tr1boy on July 06, 2018, 12:07:58 PM
Smart either takes a multi year deal (approx  9 million per season or takes the qualifying offer and bets on himself he will be able to get more money as a ufa next offseason

He is not getting what he is hoping for ... from anybody

Prob the best case scenerio at this point is...2 year deal for 18 million with 2nd year player option.... I cant see why the Celts wouldnt at least provide this flexibility
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on July 06, 2018, 12:33:31 PM
Smart either takes a multi year deal (approx  9 million per season or takes the qualifying offer and bets on himself he will be able to get more money as a ufa next offseason

He is not getting what he is hoping for ... from anybody

Prob the best case scenerio at this point is...2 year deal for 18 million with 2nd year player option.... I cant see why the Celts wouldnt at least provide this flexibility

Yeah, both sides win here. We get to keep Smart for atleast another year with a raise, and he gets to choose if he wants to go out of the market again next year.

I like this. I think this is where we should go.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: mrceltics2013 on July 06, 2018, 12:33:35 PM
I'm shocked they haven't given him a 15m year deal tbh.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: aingeforthree on July 06, 2018, 12:52:04 PM
I'm shocked they haven't given him a 15m year deal tbh.

Why bid against yourself?

Our GM plays it smart, as we’ve seen time & time again. This isn’t a dummy at the helm. He knows exactly how to play it
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on July 06, 2018, 12:53:36 PM
Smart either takes a multi year deal (approx  9 million per season or takes the qualifying offer and bets on himself he will be able to get more money as a ufa next offseason

He is not getting what he is hoping for ... from anybody

Prob the best case scenerio at this point is...2 year deal for 18 million with 2nd year player option.... I cant see why the Celts wouldnt at least provide this flexibility
I think DA will give him 11mil like thise Exum just 2 instead of 3 years.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Phantom255x on July 06, 2018, 12:56:15 PM
3 years, 35M OR 4/44M. Simple. Get it done, Danny!
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: dreamgreen on July 06, 2018, 02:06:21 PM
I think the problem a lot of Smart fans on here are having is they see bad money being thrown around to players that don't deserve it. So they think that you just overpay for a guys like Smart like the others teams have (Utah) and it doesn't matter. But the problem is it does matter! You have luxury tax issues, roster building on and on. Those other teams don't manage their cap well often, make poor moves and are always just hoping they make the playoffs. You guys want to pay our 6th, maybe 7th or 8th man depending on line ups $10-14m a year! No good team in the NBA is paying that guy 8 figures!! Players that earn that kind of money are starters. Danny is not going to overpay for a combo guard that can't shoot, he can't!
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Tr1boy on July 06, 2018, 02:09:11 PM
I am starting to wonder why we haven't signed Marcus yet. I am not sure of timing of signings and how that works but is it possible he is not signed yet because he is on the table to the Spurs in a Kawhi deal (sign and trade) but the numbers and deal is not final until they can get all of the numbers and assets to work?

look at his stats.... shooting under 40 percent (from the beginning) and having a spot on an NBA roster, is unheard of

Remember Tony Allen/Bruce Bowen? They made 4-6 million per season max....  They shot better than 40 percent on average at least

Ainge wants to keep Smart ... but on a fair deal/avoid Wyc from paying extra fees/tax as much as possible

If rumors were true that Smart was offered a 7-8 million a season deal during last season.....  and currently the Q.... 

Sounds like Ainge doesn't want to reach out first, to offer the same numbers he has already offered. Instead Ainge (who is on the driver seat right now, since there is no noise about a potential team signing him to an offer sheet) is waiting for Smart and reps to call him....and take the offer(s), Ainge has laid out on the table

Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: footey on July 06, 2018, 02:12:58 PM
I am starting to wonder why we haven't signed Marcus yet. I am not sure of timing of signings and how that works but is it possible he is not signed yet because he is on the table to the Spurs in a Kawhi deal (sign and trade) but the numbers and deal is not final until they can get all of the numbers and assets to work?

look at his stats.... shooting under 40 percent (from the beginning) and having a spot on an NBA roster, is unheard of

Remember Tony Allen/Bruce Bowen? They made 4-6 million per season max....  They shot better than 40 percent on average at least

Ainge wants to keep Smart ... but on a fair deal/avoid Wyc from paying extra fees/tax as much as possible

If rumors were true that Smart was offered a 7-8 million a season deal during last season.....  and currently the Q.... 

Sounds like Ainge doesn't want to reach out first, to offer the same numbers he has already offered. Instead Ainge (who is on the driver seat right now, since there is no noise about a potential team signing him to an offer sheet) is waiting for Smart and reps to call him....and take the offer(s), Ainge has laid out on the table

We got cheap with Tony and it could have cost us another championship. Should have never let him go. Bad example.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: BitterJim on July 06, 2018, 02:13:10 PM
I think the problem a lot of Smart fans on here are having is they see bad money being thrown around to players that don't deserve it. So they think that you just overpay for a guys like Smart like the others teams have (Utah) and it doesn't matter. But the problem is it does matter! You have luxury tax issues, roster building on and on. Those other teams don't manage their cap well often, make poor moves and are always just hoping they make the playoffs. You guys want to pay our 6th, maybe 7th or 8th man depending on line ups $10-14m a year! No good team in the NBA is paying that guy 8 figures!! Players that earn that kind of money are starters. Danny is not going to overpay for a combo guard that can't shoot, he can't!

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

No way those successful teams would ever pay bench players that much. It's not like being over the cap severely limits your ability to add yalent, and letting talent go for nothing will hurt long-term

Danny will let him walk if keeping him would cost something like $14 million, but I don't see anyone here saying to pay that (or any team that will offer him that)
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Tr1boy on July 06, 2018, 02:16:56 PM
The reality is

Smart has barely improved since his rookie season (outside of rookie to vet wrinkles).  He is still shooting under 40 percent.  Self inflicting hand injury last season during a critical stretch was dumb.  After losing to the Cavs (horrible shooting night) , "back up the brinks truck" comment was the even dumber

Smart intangibles (especially on defense) is valuable. But his offense plain out stinks. 

Q offer for approx 6 million =  5 million for defense and 1 million for offense.   If the old offer is still good.... 8 million per season = 6-7 million for defense and 1 million for offense.  There is little to no hope Smart offense gets any better

Maybe what Smart should do is get a new agent....set things straight
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: BitterJim on July 06, 2018, 02:17:06 PM
I am starting to wonder why we haven't signed Marcus yet. I am not sure of timing of signings and how that works but is it possible he is not signed yet because he is on the table to the Spurs in a Kawhi deal (sign and trade) but the numbers and deal is not final until they can get all of the numbers and assets to work?

look at his stats.... shooting under 40 percent (from the beginning) and having a spot on an NBA roster, is unheard of

Remember Tony Allen/Bruce Bowen? They made 4-6 million per season max....  They shot better than 40 percent on average at least

Ainge wants to keep Smart ... but on a fair deal/avoid Wyc from paying extra fees/tax as much as possible

If rumors were true that Smart was offered a 7-8 million a season deal during last season.....  and currently the Q.... 

Sounds like Ainge doesn't want to reach out first, to offer the same numbers he has already offered. Instead Ainge (who is on the driver seat right now, since there is no noise about a potential team signing him to an offer sheet) is waiting for Smart and reps to call him....and take the offer(s), Ainge has laid out on the table

Those numbers aren't relevant to today. The salary cap is nearly double what it was when Tony Allen's rookie contract ended in 2010.

Percent of the salary cap would be more relevant
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jambr380 on July 06, 2018, 02:21:18 PM
Smart either takes a multi year deal (approx  9 million per season or takes the qualifying offer and bets on himself he will be able to get more money as a ufa next offseason

He is not getting what he is hoping for ... from anybody

Prob the best case scenerio at this point is...2 year deal for 18 million with 2nd year player option.... I cant see why the Celts wouldnt at least provide this flexibility

Yeah, both sides win here. We get to keep Smart for atleast another year with a raise, and he gets to choose if he wants to go out of the market again next year.

I like this. I think this is where we should go.

Is this just a good faith sort-of thing where we hope Smart will give us a good deal next summer? Otherwise, it is giving him $9M this year instead of the QO and him declining his option next year.

I think the only way we go multi-year with a player option is on at least a 3-yr deal; otherwise, Danny will just let him play for the QO and hope to re-sign him next year. Either way, Smart is going to take the best deal that works for him in 2019 - either from the Cs or another team. We will also have a much better picture of Kyrie's/Rozier's future.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: dreamgreen on July 06, 2018, 02:24:42 PM
I think the problem a lot of Smart fans on here are having is they see bad money being thrown around to players that don't deserve it. So they think that you just overpay for a guys like Smart like the others teams have (Utah) and it doesn't matter. But the problem is it does matter! You have luxury tax issues, roster building on and on. Those other teams don't manage their cap well often, make poor moves and are always just hoping they make the playoffs. You guys want to pay our 6th, maybe 7th or 8th man depending on line ups $10-14m a year! No good team in the NBA is paying that guy 8 figures!! Players that earn that kind of money are starters. Danny is not going to overpay for a combo guard that can't shoot, he can't!

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

No way those successful teams would ever pay bench players that much. It's not like being over the cap severely limits your ability to add yalent, and letting talent go for nothing will hurt long-term

Danny will let him walk if keeping him would cost something like $14 million, but I don't see anyone here saying to pay that (or any team that will offer him that)

I'm not sure the intention was to have those guys come off the bench when they signed those deals and when healthy both those players are better than Smart! Also I have seen people on here saying he's worth $14m a year that's what scares the hell out of me! He's a hard nose player that's nice to have on the team don't get me wrong. But when you can't shoot you can't shoot. Take the QO practice shooting all off season and see if transfers into the games and if it does he will get some good offers.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: BitterJim on July 06, 2018, 02:26:29 PM
The reality is

Smart has barely improved since his rookie season (outside of rookie to vet wrinkles).  He is still shooting under 40 percent.  Self inflicting hand injury last season during a critical stretch was dumb.  After losing to the Cavs (horrible shooting night) , "back up the brinks truck" comment was the even dumber

Smart intangibles (especially on defense) is valuable. But his offense plain out stinks. 

Q offer for approx 6 million =  5 million for defense and 1 million for offense.   If the old offer is still good.... 8 million per season = 6-7 million for defense and 1 million for offense.  There is little to no hope Smart offense gets any better

Maybe what Smart should do is get a new agent....set things straight

The game (even the offensive end) is more than just shooting. His shooting may not have improved, but the rest of his game (individual defence, team defense, rebounding, passing, and posting up smaller players) have all improved greatly since his rookie year.

What should Smart have said when asked if he thought he was worth what he was asking for at the beginning of the season? "No, I don't think teams should spend money on me. They should offer the vet min at most"? No player will ever talk down their value when asked point blank about it. There's a big difference between simply answering a question and bringing up your next contract a lot/wearing custom sandals with a Brinks truck on them
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jambr380 on July 06, 2018, 02:27:45 PM
Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

Those guys are legit two-way players who easily could start and be at least the 3rd best player on the majority of teams in the league. Smart is awesome at what he does, but he is still kind-of a niche player. I would love to keep him, but not at those numbers (Gordon's $13M/yr isn't killer, though).

Those numbers aren't relevant to today. The salary cap is nearly double what it was when Tony Allen's rookie contract ended in 2010.

Percent of the salary cap would be more relevant

True, but max-level players are still eating up most of the salary. As we are seeing, paying mid-tier players relatively big money isn't working. The new model seems to be acquiring as many max-level players as possible and filling the rest of the roster with rookie scale, vet min, exception contract guys. While Smart may technically be worth $15M/yr, it doesn't seems to be what teams are trying to do.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Tr1boy on July 06, 2018, 02:28:54 PM
I am starting to wonder why we haven't signed Marcus yet. I am not sure of timing of signings and how that works but is it possible he is not signed yet because he is on the table to the Spurs in a Kawhi deal (sign and trade) but the numbers and deal is not final until they can get all of the numbers and assets to work?

look at his stats.... shooting under 40 percent (from the beginning) and having a spot on an NBA roster, is unheard of

Remember Tony Allen/Bruce Bowen? They made 4-6 million per season max....  They shot better than 40 percent on average at least

Ainge wants to keep Smart ... but on a fair deal/avoid Wyc from paying extra fees/tax as much as possible

If rumors were true that Smart was offered a 7-8 million a season deal during last season.....  and currently the Q.... 

Sounds like Ainge doesn't want to reach out first, to offer the same numbers he has already offered. Instead Ainge (who is on the driver seat right now, since there is no noise about a potential team signing him to an offer sheet) is waiting for Smart and reps to call him....and take the offer(s), Ainge has laid out on the table

We got cheap with Tony and it could have cost us another championship. Should have never let him go. Bad example.

Allen also never shot under 40 percent

While Wanamaker is likely no Smart on defense, I'm hearing that he is a very very good defender, that has a strong body, 6'8 wingspan.  Plus is better on the offensive end

Ainge offered something to Smart during last season....Smart balked.  Smart didn't increase production/efficiency on offense .... and on national TV spurt out something ridiculous (12-14 million demand)

I mean there is a chance that the previous offer (8 million per season) is no longer on the table

I feel bad for Smart....he definitely overshot his worth
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: IDreamCeltics on July 06, 2018, 02:32:31 PM
The reality is

Smart has barely improved since his rookie season (outside of rookie to vet wrinkles).  He is still shooting under 40 percent.  Self inflicting hand injury last season during a critical stretch was dumb.  After losing to the Cavs (horrible shooting night) , "back up the brinks truck" comment was the even dumber

Smart intangibles (especially on defense) is valuable. But his offense plain out stinks. 

Q offer for approx 6 million =  5 million for defense and 1 million for offense.   If the old offer is still good.... 8 million per season = 6-7 million for defense and 1 million for offense.  There is little to no hope Smart offense gets any better

Maybe what Smart should do is get a new agent....set things straight

The game (even the offensive end) is more than just shooting. His shooting may not have improved, but the rest of his game (individual defence, team defense, rebounding, passing, and posting up smaller players) have all improved greatly since his rookie year.

What should Smart have said when asked if he thought he was worth what he was asking for at the beginning of the season? "No, I don't think teams should spend money on me. They should offer the vet min at most"? No player will ever talk down their value when asked point blank about it. There's a big difference between simply answering a question and bringing up your next contract a lot/wearing custom sandals with a Brinks truck on them

Some of Smart's individual skills may have improved but his decision making hasn't evolved. 

In fact this whole episode with him being hurt and shocked that the Celtics haven't been wooing him during free-agency is a microcosm of Marcus Smart's entire problem.  He thinks of himself as a star on the court instead of a defensive specialist/role-player.  He'd be so much more valuable if he learned to stop trying to force his shot and offense. 
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Monkhouse on July 06, 2018, 02:34:57 PM
The reality is

Smart has barely improved since his rookie season (outside of rookie to vet wrinkles).  He is still shooting under 40 percent.  Self inflicting hand injury last season during a critical stretch was dumb.  After losing to the Cavs (horrible shooting night) , "back up the brinks truck" comment was the even dumber

Smart intangibles (especially on defense) is valuable. But his offense plain out stinks. 

Q offer for approx 6 million =  5 million for defense and 1 million for offense.   If the old offer is still good.... 8 million per season = 6-7 million for defense and 1 million for offense.  There is little to no hope Smart offense gets any better

Maybe what Smart should do is get a new agent....set things straight

The game (even the offensive end) is more than just shooting. His shooting may not have improved, but the rest of his game (individual defence, team defense, rebounding, passing, and posting up smaller players) have all improved greatly since his rookie year.

What should Smart have said when asked if he thought he was worth what he was asking for at the beginning of the season? "No, I don't think teams should spend money on me. They should offer the vet min at most"? No player will ever talk down their value when asked point blank about it. There's a big difference between simply answering a question and bringing up your next contract a lot/wearing custom sandals with a Brinks truck on them

Some of Smart's individual skills may have improved but his decision making hasn't evolved. 

In fact this whole episode with him being hurt and shocked that the Celtics haven't been wooing him during free-agency is a microcosm of Marcus Smart's entire problem.  He thinks of himself as a star on the court instead of a defensive specialist/role-player.  He'd be so much more valuable if he learned to stop trying to force his shot and offense.

Yeah.... There is no legit sources except for one reporter who has a Boston bias..

Also Smart's passing, and decision making on that end has improved greatly... Horford can attest to that.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: BitterJim on July 06, 2018, 02:35:20 PM
I think the problem a lot of Smart fans on here are having is they see bad money being thrown around to players that don't deserve it. So they think that you just overpay for a guys like Smart like the others teams have (Utah) and it doesn't matter. But the problem is it does matter! You have luxury tax issues, roster building on and on. Those other teams don't manage their cap well often, make poor moves and are always just hoping they make the playoffs. You guys want to pay our 6th, maybe 7th or 8th man depending on line ups $10-14m a year! No good team in the NBA is paying that guy 8 figures!! Players that earn that kind of money are starters. Danny is not going to overpay for a combo guard that can't shoot, he can't!

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

No way those successful teams would ever pay bench players that much. It's not like being over the cap severely limits your ability to add yalent, and letting talent go for nothing will hurt long-term

Danny will let him walk if keeping him would cost something like $14 million, but I don't see anyone here saying to pay that (or any team that will offer him that)

I'm not sure the intention was to have those guys come off the bench when they signed those deals and when healthy both those players are better than Smart! Also I have seen people on here saying he's worth $14m a year that's what scares the hell out of me! He's a hard nose player that's nice to have on the team don't get me wrong. But when you can't shoot you can't shoot. Take the QO practice shooting all off season and see if transfers into the games and if it does he will get some good offers.

The Warriors absolutely payed that with the idea of hom coming off the bench, and Eric Gordon came off the bench for 60 of the 75 games he played the year he signed with Houston. They both were payed to be the 6th man, and we're much older when they signed.

If your only argument is "he's not worth $14 million", you won't find many people here that will disagree with you. But there's a huge gap between paying him $14 milion and giving him a multi-year deal in the $10 million per year range that most have suggested. Saying no to $14 million is a good decision, saying no to anything over the QO is not
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 06, 2018, 02:37:10 PM
Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

Those guys are legit two-way players who easily could start and be at least the 3rd best player on the majority of teams in the league. Smart is awesome at what he does, but he is still kind-of a niche player. I would love to keep him, but not at those numbers (Gordon's $13M/yr isn't killer, though).

Those numbers aren't relevant to today. The salary cap is nearly double what it was when Tony Allen's rookie contract ended in 2010.

Percent of the salary cap would be more relevant

True, but max-level players are still eating up most of the salary. As we are seeing, paying mid-tier players relatively big money isn't working. The new model seems to be acquiring as many max-level players as possible and filling the rest of the roster with rookie scale, vet min, exception contract guys. While Smart may technically be worth $15M/yr, it doesn't seems to be what teams are trying to do.

Iggy shot 28% from 3 last year. I agree that he’s a positive impact on offense, but so is Smart despite similar poor shooting.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: BitterJim on July 06, 2018, 02:41:56 PM
Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

Those guys are legit two-way players who easily could start and be at least the 3rd best player on the majority of teams in the league. Smart is awesome at what he does, but he is still kind-of a niche player. I would love to keep him, but not at those numbers (Gordon's $13M/yr isn't killer, though).

Those numbers aren't relevant to today. The salary cap is nearly double what it was when Tony Allen's rookie contract ended in 2010.

Percent of the salary cap would be more relevant

True, but max-level players are still eating up most of the salary. As we are seeing, paying mid-tier players relatively big money isn't working. The new model seems to be acquiring as many max-level players as possible and filling the rest of the roster with rookie scale, vet min, exception contract guys. While Smart may technically be worth $15M/yr, it doesn't seems to be what teams are trying to do.

The new model isn't just surrounding max players with min salary and MLE players, it's surrounding them with the best players you can. The means drafting players and keeping them when they become RFAs, too. Smart would be a part of that
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Tr1boy on July 06, 2018, 02:43:37 PM
If we examine this situation,  roster, playing time, signing of Wanamaker, pay or avoid tax

What Danny might be really seeking is that somebody offers him a 1st or a couple of high 2nds for Smart

With Irving, Hayward returning.....  having Brown, Tatum, Smart, Rozier =  minutes spread thin

Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something


Examining the lineup

Starting unit A  (vs legit starting center)

Baynes
Horford
Hayward
Brown/Tatum
Irving

Staring unit B (against anybody else)

Horford
Hayward
Brown
Tatum
Irving

Regular Bench
Theis/Baynes
Morris
Rozier
Brown/Tatum
+ rotate in Irving, Horford, Hayward

Likely to get 5-7 min a night
Wanamaker

Playing min to go around is very tight
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Tr1boy on July 06, 2018, 02:46:43 PM
Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

Those guys are legit two-way players who easily could start and be at least the 3rd best player on the majority of teams in the league. Smart is awesome at what he does, but he is still kind-of a niche player. I would love to keep him, but not at those numbers (Gordon's $13M/yr isn't killer, though).

Those numbers aren't relevant to today. The salary cap is nearly double what it was when Tony Allen's rookie contract ended in 2010.

Percent of the salary cap would be more relevant

True, but max-level players are still eating up most of the salary. As we are seeing, paying mid-tier players relatively big money isn't working. The new model seems to be acquiring as many max-level players as possible and filling the rest of the roster with rookie scale, vet min, exception contract guys. While Smart may technically be worth $15M/yr, it doesn't seems to be what teams are trying to do.

Iggy shot 28% from 3 last year. I agree that he’s a positive impact on offense, but so is Smart despite similar poor shooting.

Iguadala still shot 46 percent overall and had one off 3 pt shooting efficiency last season

He is still a 33-34 percent 3 pt shooting on average

Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: dreamgreen on July 06, 2018, 03:04:47 PM
I think the problem a lot of Smart fans on here are having is they see bad money being thrown around to players that don't deserve it. So they think that you just overpay for a guys like Smart like the others teams have (Utah) and it doesn't matter. But the problem is it does matter! You have luxury tax issues, roster building on and on. Those other teams don't manage their cap well often, make poor moves and are always just hoping they make the playoffs. You guys want to pay our 6th, maybe 7th or 8th man depending on line ups $10-14m a year! No good team in the NBA is paying that guy 8 figures!! Players that earn that kind of money are starters. Danny is not going to overpay for a combo guard that can't shoot, he can't!

Imagine if Andre Iguodala got paid 3/48, or Eric Gordon 4/53

No way those successful teams would ever pay bench players that much. It's not like being over the cap severely limits your ability to add yalent, and letting talent go for nothing will hurt long-term

Danny will let him walk if keeping him would cost something like $14 million, but I don't see anyone here saying to pay that (or any team that will offer him that)

I'm not sure the intention was to have those guys come off the bench when they signed those deals and when healthy both those players are better than Smart! Also I have seen people on here saying he's worth $14m a year that's what scares the hell out of me! He's a hard nose player that's nice to have on the team don't get me wrong. But when you can't shoot you can't shoot. Take the QO practice shooting all off season and see if transfers into the games and if it does he will get some good offers.

The Warriors absolutely payed that with the idea of hom coming off the bench, and Eric Gordon came off the bench for 60 of the 75 games he played the year he signed with Houston. They both were payed to be the 6th man, and we're much older when they signed.

If your only argument is "he's not worth $14 million", you won't find many people here that will disagree with you. But there's a huge gap between paying him $14 milion and giving him a multi-year deal in the $10 million per year range that most have suggested. Saying no to $14 million is a good decision, saying no to anything over the QO is not

No my argument is not to pay him $14m a year only a fool would do that. I'm saying he's a typical MLE level player and I wouldn't pay him much more or go into the luxury tax for him. I reserve that for KI, JB and JT.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 06, 2018, 03:21:54 PM
Quote
Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: bogg on July 06, 2018, 05:46:22 PM
Quote
Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

People really don't get how special Smart is on defense for a guy who can also play the point guard spot on offense. Any deal that gets cut has to make sense for the team, but he's not a guy you can just replace off the scrap heap.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on July 06, 2018, 06:07:15 PM
Quote
Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

People really don't get how special Smart is on defense for a guy who can also play the point guard spot on offense. Any deal that gets cut has to make sense for the team, but he's not a guy you can just replace off the scrap heap.

Complete agree.  Losing Smart takes something  from the C’s repertoire that is not easily replaced. Countless times Marcus has come in and completely changed the flow of the game. He makes mistakes and he shoots more than he should, but Smart is a presence on the floor and good things often happen late in games when he’s on the court.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: MattyIce on July 06, 2018, 08:49:38 PM
New: Latest on Marcus Smart situation. A source close to Smart says he’s “over it” & prepared to sign qualifying offer if it comes to it. But league sources say the Cs’ fondness for Smart has not waned, and that Ainge will mend personal fences if needed:

https://twitter.com/adamhimmelsbach/status/1015396520798052352?s=21
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Joyride on July 06, 2018, 08:59:56 PM
Quote
Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

You really don’t need someone like Smart when you’re blowing out teams every night. The only reason Smart was so valuable was because the Celts sucked and Smart helped us get over the hump with the others misfit toys.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: RJ87 on July 06, 2018, 09:01:53 PM
New: Latest on Marcus Smart situation. A source close to Smart says he’s “over it” & prepared to sign qualifying offer if it comes to it. But league sources say the Cs’ fondness for Smart has not waned, and that Ainge will mend personal fences if needed:

https://twitter.com/adamhimmelsbach/status/1015396520798052352?s=21

My biggest takeaway from this story is that Marcus is seeking $15m-$17m annually. I love the guy's fire, but that's just an absurd about of money for a guy with no offensive game.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: MattyIce on July 06, 2018, 09:01:58 PM
Quote
Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

You really don’t need someone like Smart when you’re blowing out teams every night. The only reason Smart was so valuable was because the Celts sucked and Smart helped us get over the hump with the others misfit toys.

tell that to Harden
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Monkhouse on July 06, 2018, 09:02:32 PM
Quote
Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

You really don’t need someone like Smart when you’re blowing out teams every night. The only reason Smart was so valuable was because the Celts sucked and Smart helped us get over the hump with the others misfit toys.

 :laugh: :laugh: ::) ::)

Sure, whatever you say buddy.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Joyride on July 06, 2018, 09:08:33 PM
Quote
Wanamaker can play half the mins Smart played ... and still provide something

We really do not know that.   I worry about losing our toughness with Smart.

You really don’t need someone like Smart when you’re blowing out teams every night. The only reason Smart was so valuable was because the Celts sucked and Smart helped us get over the hump with the others misfit toys.

 :laugh: :laugh: ::) ::)

Sure, whatever you say buddy.

Just saying, if you had to pick between Rozier or Smart, I’d take Rozier.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Kuberski33 on July 06, 2018, 09:26:03 PM
Smart's probably freaking out over what LaVine just got offered.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: CelticsElite on July 07, 2018, 12:35:20 AM
Himmelsbach- significant interest in marcus smart around the league at a salary closer to $9 mill per year , but smart has no interest in entertaining those offerS

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/07/06/marcus-smart-frustrated-wait-but-celtics-have-plans-part-with-him/eksrvnRDNgvL8v3TWhO0PO/story.html
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Birdman on July 07, 2018, 04:24:43 AM
Maybe Celtics dont want Smart and waiting for someone to offer him a contract and wont match it
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Surferdad on July 07, 2018, 07:16:39 AM
Maybe Celtics dont want Smart and waiting for someone to offer him a contract and wont match it
I believe they already offered the QO.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 07, 2018, 07:37:39 AM
Quote
Maybe Celtics dont want Smart and waiting for someone to offer him a contract and wont match it

They are using market forces, aka demand, to set his value and show him he is a not a huge contract guy
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: mgent on July 07, 2018, 08:03:00 AM
Quote
Maybe Celtics dont want Smart and waiting for someone to offer him a contract and wont match it

They are using market forces, aka demand, to set his value and show him he is a not a huge contract guy

Yup.  I remember we did that with Big Baby.  Told him to go get that much if he really thinks he can get it, and we ended up with him for dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Vermont Green on July 07, 2018, 08:05:09 AM
Himmelsbach- significant interest in marcus smart around the league at a salary closer to $9 mill per year , but smart has no interest in entertaining those offerS

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/07/06/marcus-smart-frustrated-wait-but-celtics-have-plans-part-with-him/eksrvnRDNgvL8v3TWhO0PO/story.html

This is exactly right.  The Celtics only have about $8M under the tax cap and the other teams know this.  I doubt they go into the tax to sign Smart.  A team can offer $9M and the Celtics probably won't match.  The only question is whether he will get better offers.

Four years, starting at $8M, with player opt out after two years.  I don't know what the allowable escalation is but maybe it is something like 8-9-10-11.  That is $38M guaranteed and can opt out into a better market in two years if he plays well and stays healthy.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: bellerephon on July 07, 2018, 08:31:37 AM
Celts would 100% match at 9 million. I have no doubts about that. I think they would probably match offers up to 12 mill, maybe even higher.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: dreamgreen on July 07, 2018, 08:52:11 AM
Celts would 100% match at 9 million. I have no doubts about that. I think they would probably match offers up to 12 mill, maybe even higher.

Crack kills!  ;)
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: bellerephon on July 07, 2018, 09:00:02 AM
They are in a win now mode and they think Smart helps them win. They know they are going to pay the lux tax at some point. Avoiding the repeater tax is an issue but I think they believe keeping Smart is a priority. It does not seem like they will need to go that high, but I would not have been surprised if they went as high as 12 mil per year.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jambr380 on July 07, 2018, 09:32:01 AM
If Smart is expecting LaVine money, then this is a best case for the Cs. They totally avoid the tax this year (with room to spare), can keep Bird, sign another vet min guy, get to field a championship caliber team with all of its ‘parts’, and can let the market dictate who to keep between him and Rozier next offseason (or both if Kyrie leaves - Yikes!).

Of course I would love to sign Smart at $8M/yr over 4 years, but that doesn’t look like a possibility and I am okay with that. Our depth next year will be insane!
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Chris22 on July 07, 2018, 09:50:32 AM
In today's NBA it's all about the 3.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: greenrunsdeep41 on July 07, 2018, 09:52:43 AM
If Smart is expecting LaVine money, then this is a best case for the Cs. They totally avoid the tax this year (with room to spare), can keep Bird, sign another vet min guy, get to field a championship caliber team with all of its ‘parts’, and can let the market dictate who to keep between him and Rozier next offseason (or both if Kyrie leaves - Yikes!).

Of course I would love to sign Smart at $8M/yr over 4 years, but that doesn’t look like a possibility and I am okay with that. Our depth next year will be insane!

TP, I am hoping we retain him on the QO then let the PG position shake out next offseason. I have the feeling it will be 2/3 with Kyrie being one of those two.

Although, I could see a future where Rozier improves enough to be our starter. He will clearly never be Kyrie, but maybe he doesn't have to be. "IF" Smart could improve his consistency from the outside/be slightly better finishing near the rim ( I know, huge if, at this point) then I could see us being a team that could withstand the loss of Kyrie.

I say this with adoration and respect for KI's game and basketball muscles.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 07, 2018, 10:06:02 AM
Quote
The Celtics only have about $8M under the tax cap and the other teams know this.  I doubt they go into the tax to sign Smart.  A team can offer $9M and the Celtics probably won't match.

They've got around $8.44 million.  If they waive and stretch Nader (which they should regardless), they're up to $9.76 million.

That means they could sign Smart to approximately 4 years, $43,680,000 without hitting the tax.

(I don't believe that two-way contracts count against the tax; if they do, a slightly lower number would have to be negotiated).

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=907901305b40c878b8146518189575
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: timpiker on July 07, 2018, 10:07:10 AM
Bulpett's article this morning says the C's offered Smart more than $11M per for 4 years and it was turned down.  So, the crying/whining from Smart is bull.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 07, 2018, 10:12:18 AM
Bulpett's article this morning says the C's offered Smart more than $11M per for 4 years and it was turned down.  So, the crying/whining from Smart is bull.

In fairness, the offer has reportedly gone down this off-season, but yeah, there's no reason for acrimony.  Either you take that deal -- which is in line with the market -- or you just decide to play for the QO.  Business is business.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: More Banners on July 07, 2018, 10:15:52 AM
Bulpett's article this morning says the C's offered Smart more than $11M per for 4 years and it was turned down.  So, the crying/whining from Smart is bull.

Pretty sure someday he's going to regret turning down $44M, if that is indeed the case.

He could just as easily never make half of that in his lifetime.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Rakulp on July 07, 2018, 10:27:12 AM
Bulpett's article this morning says the C's offered Smart more than $11M per for 4 years and it was turned down.  So, the crying/whining from Smart is bull.

Smart is valuable on defense...and if he were consistent with his offense, would be worth more.  But I believe that offer is fair value for him, so if he turns it down and "bets on himself", then I almost hope he ends up as Noels.

How much is enough nowadays...sheesh.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: kmart12 on July 07, 2018, 10:29:08 AM
In today's NBA it's all about the 3.

As much as I love Smart and hope he stays with us, I have been thinking about this point a lot lately. The game has evolved to where shooting is now a necessity in guards; even a player like Rondo, who has essentially no outside shot, can finish around the rim and convert within the 3 point line. Smart's overall shooting is a liability and something that I hope he understands can't be made up for with defense and intensity. I love his playmaking ability, and can even forgive his turnover rate, but his shooting needs to improve for him to truly develop into a caliber worthy on 30 mpg on a championship team.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Hawkeye199 on July 07, 2018, 10:32:30 AM
Bulpett's article this morning says the C's offered Smart more than $11M per for 4 years and it was turned down.  So, the crying/whining from Smart is bull.


Link?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: dreamgreen on July 07, 2018, 10:38:29 AM
Bulpett's article this morning says the C's offered Smart more than $11M per for 4 years and it was turned down.  So, the crying/whining from Smart is bull.

In fairness, the offer has reportedly gone down this off-season, but yeah, there's no reason for acrimony.  Either you take that deal -- which is in line with the market -- or you just decide to play for the QO.  Business is business.

I'd say that's more than fair heading towards generous. He's a fool if he turned that down. I know he thinks next year he can make the money but you never know that. If he had a horrible injury, shoots just as bad or god forbid worse, get less PT because of the roster. Take the $ now work on your game and still have next time to earn more if you proved yourself.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: cman88 on July 07, 2018, 10:44:23 AM
teams just arent willing to pay 15-17 million on a player who cant shoot...its as simple as that..smart seems to be hoping that if no one gives him that this summer they will next.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 07, 2018, 11:10:32 AM
If you're Danny, as a sign of good will would you offer Marcus something like a 1 year $8 million deal, with a second year player option?

There's no real necessity to do something like that, but it's a sign of good will in hopes of keeping Smart happy (while still staying below the tax line).  It's essentially a gift of $2 million to ensure that Smart doesn't sign a higher tender with another team.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Chris22 on July 07, 2018, 11:33:12 AM
If you're Danny, as a sign of good will would you offer Marcus something like a 1 year $8 million deal, with a second year player option?

There's no real necessity to do something like that, but it's a sign of good will in hopes of keeping Smart happy (while still staying below the tax line).  It's essentially a gift of $2 million to ensure that Smart doesn't sign a higher tender with another team.

$6 million a year is not enough good will?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 07, 2018, 11:52:03 AM
If you're Danny, as a sign of good will would you offer Marcus something like a 1 year $8 million deal, with a second year player option?

There's no real necessity to do something like that, but it's a sign of good will in hopes of keeping Smart happy (while still staying below the tax line).  It's essentially a gift of $2 million to ensure that Smart doesn't sign a higher tender with another team.

$6 million a year is not enough good will?

Where's the "good will" in offering the minimum qualifying offer?   The restricted free agency process is causing some friction with a good player.  Giving more than necessary can help heal hurt feelings.

If you're sacrificing $2 million for guaranteeing the player comes back (and comes back a little happier) it might be worth considering.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: greenrunsdeep41 on July 07, 2018, 11:54:39 AM
If you're Danny, as a sign of good will would you offer Marcus something like a 1 year $8 million deal, with a second year player option?

There's no real necessity to do something like that, but it's a sign of good will in hopes of keeping Smart happy (while still staying below the tax line).  It's essentially a gift of $2 million to ensure that Smart doesn't sign a higher tender with another team.

Yea, I am hoping for this type of offer. A two year, prove it deal would be best case for the team.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: knuckleballer on July 07, 2018, 11:59:21 AM
If you're Danny, as a sign of good will would you offer Marcus something like a 1 year $8 million deal, with a second year player option?

There's no real necessity to do something like that, but it's a sign of good will in hopes of keeping Smart happy (while still staying below the tax line).  It's essentially a gift of $2 million to ensure that Smart doesn't sign a higher tender with another team.

Absolutely, that's definitely a good idea.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: bellerephon on July 07, 2018, 12:12:42 PM
There's no need to offer more money in search of good will. I think this is posturing by Smart's camp to try to get the Celts to offer more. The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit. If he takes the QO that's good for the Celts and then they can deal with an extension next year.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 07, 2018, 12:17:12 PM
The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jambr380 on July 07, 2018, 12:29:24 PM
The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.

If it 'guaranteed' his return next year, then yeah, obviously; however, I would guess that he will probably take the most money offered next year whether it is from the Cs or another team.

It might be nice to give him that extra $2M, but I would prefer to sign another vet minimum player and hang on to Bird with that money. Smart is going to be upset if he doesn't get a big deal this offseason, regardless.

Also - and this certainly doesn't benefit Smart - by signing Bird and a vet min player, you add more quality to the roster which may cut into Smart's minutes possibly making him even more affordable next year. It really is a win-win for the Cs.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: trickybilly on July 07, 2018, 12:29:24 PM
Bulpett's article this morning says the C's offered Smart more than $11M per for 4 years and it was turned down.  So, the crying/whining from Smart is bull.

Pretty sure someday he's going to regret turning down $44M, if that is indeed the case.

He could just as easily never make half of that in his lifetime.

So dangerous. He could be diagnosed with something awful tomorrow and not even get another contract.

I would eat my ears for 44million...
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 07, 2018, 12:55:39 PM
The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.

If it 'guaranteed' his return next year, then yeah, obviously; however, I would guess that he will probably take the most money offered next year whether it is from the Cs or another team.

It might be nice to give him that extra $2M, but I would prefer to sign another vet minimum player and hang on to Bird with that money. Smart is going to be upset if he doesn't get a big deal this offseason, regardless.

Also - and this certainly doesn't benefit Smart - by signing Bird and a vet min player, you add more quality to the roster which may cut into Smart's minutes possibly making him even more affordable next year. It really is a win-win for the Cs.

Signing Smart gets us to 15 players. Waiving and stretching Nader gets us one roster spot. We would have enough room under the luxury tax for a minimum contract.



Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: CelticSooner on July 07, 2018, 12:59:52 PM
If you're Danny, as a sign of good will would you offer Marcus something like a 1 year $8 million deal, with a second year player option?

There's no real necessity to do something like that, but it's a sign of good will in hopes of keeping Smart happy (while still staying below the tax line).  It's essentially a gift of $2 million to ensure that Smart doesn't sign a higher tender with another team.

I think he’d rather do that then lose the ability to trade him if he takes the QO.

The more I look at this the more it comes off as having questionable representation. This is the same agent that represented Noel (who he fired)who turned down $70 million and was forced to take a minimum deal this summer. This agent doesn’t exactly have the greatest NBA clientele, almost all role players.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Fred Roberts on July 07, 2018, 01:05:11 PM
4/44 is a perfect deal for Smart. If accurate, he should have nabbed it and worried about getting better before the next contract. Even Steph Curry took a deal like that to ensure he made good money while he figured out if his body would hold up. Marcus needs to figure out if he can round out his game with better shot making.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Tr1boy on July 07, 2018, 01:12:36 PM
If you're Danny, as a sign of good will would you offer Marcus something like a 1 year $8 million deal, with a second year player option?

There's no real necessity to do something like that, but it's a sign of good will in hopes of keeping Smart happy (while still staying below the tax line).  It's essentially a gift of $2 million to ensure that Smart doesn't sign a higher tender with another team.

yes but Danny needs to contact Smart (I believe this rumor vs that talks are going smooth)

The urge/fear of losing Smart doesn't seem like is there

So I can understand why Smart and camp is upset about this

at the end of the day if Danny doesn't press.... I'm assuming the only deal on the table is the QO

Smart either takes this and bets on himself for a higher pay next offseason....or agent asks for previous offer (shoot a bit higher) made during last season  (7-8 million per season - assumption)

The longer this drags on + no real offers from other teams...the worst this becomes for Smart
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Eja117 on July 07, 2018, 01:17:00 PM
It seems like either the Celts don't think Smart is worth much or they want to sign him to something small for some reason (easier to trade him for a draft pick?) or they want to make some example to the other players of the risks of not signing extensions when offered. Or they think Rozier is about to seriously surpass him and there's not lots of reason to bring him back. Maybe they think a 6ft 4 Brad Wannamaker at 800K is a way better deal.

Maybe some combo of this.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: KGs Knee on July 07, 2018, 01:31:55 PM
My guess is Danny is perfectly comfortable waiting until all potential teams with cap space have exhausted their funds, at which point Danny will approach Smart with a low ball offer (basically MLE money). Smart will then be forced to choose between that or the QO. 

I'm betting Smart takes the QO.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: bogg on July 07, 2018, 01:55:16 PM
The more I look at this the more it comes off as having questionable representation. This is the same agent that represented Noel (who he fired)who turned down $70 million and was forced to take a minimum deal this summer. This agent doesn’t exactly have the greatest NBA clientele, almost all role players.

Wasn't there some uncertainty about who exactly advised Noel to turn down that deal? He switched representation to Klutch that summer, and I seem to remember some internet sniping between Noel's former agent and Rich Paul over the declined extension. I was left with the impression that Noel's former agent actually wanted him to sign that $70 million deal and Noel switched to Klutch looking for something in excess of $20 million a year (which obviously never materialized) rather than what was, at the time, Timo Mozgov money.

Then again, I also don't have access to the specifics and may be misremembering.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 07, 2018, 01:59:14 PM
The more I look at this the more it comes off as having questionable representation. This is the same agent that represented Noel (who he fired)who turned down $70 million and was forced to take a minimum deal this summer. This agent doesn’t exactly have the greatest NBA clientele, almost all role players.

Wasn't there some uncertainty about who exactly advised Noel to turn down that deal? He switched representation to Klutch that summer, and I seem to remember some internet sniping between Noel's former agent and Rich Paul over the declined extension. I was left with the impression that Noel's former agent actually wanted him to sign that $70 million deal and Noel switched to Klutch looking for something in excess of $20 million a year (which obviously never materialized) rather than what was, at the time, Timo Mozgov money.

Then again, I also don't have access to the specifics and may be misremembering.

There was sniping by Happy Walters, but Noel signed his QO 5 days after switching agents, and that reported offer (reported by his agent himself) was off the table long before the switch.  I assume it was someone in Noel’s camp that nixed the deal, and not another agent. If Noel turned down that deal because Rich Paul told him to do so while still being represented by Walters, that might have ended up in court over the lost commission.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: RJ87 on July 07, 2018, 02:11:47 PM
It seems like either the Celts don't think Smart is worth much or they want to sign him to something small for some reason (easier to trade him for a draft pick?) or they want to make some example to the other players of the risks of not signing extensions when offered. Or they think Rozier is about to seriously surpass him and there's not lots of reason to bring him back. Maybe they think a 6ft 4 Brad Wannamaker at 800K is a way better deal.

Maybe some combo of this.

Or they're simply allowing the market to dictate his value. Nothing wrong with that. If no other team is willing to sign him for more than $9m per, why should we pay significantly more?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Scintan on July 07, 2018, 02:16:38 PM
The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.

Where was Smart's good will when he reportedly passed on an offer of $11m per?

I'm generally pro-player when it comes to guys getting their money, but players don't take less money to generate good will from their teams, so why should the team do it in the other direction?  Marcus isn't going to fight with the team, settle on a contract, and then say "OK, now, for the sake of good will, let's take a million dollars per season off what we just agreed upon".
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: bogg on July 07, 2018, 02:17:12 PM
The more I look at this the more it comes off as having questionable representation. This is the same agent that represented Noel (who he fired)who turned down $70 million and was forced to take a minimum deal this summer. This agent doesn’t exactly have the greatest NBA clientele, almost all role players.

Wasn't there some uncertainty about who exactly advised Noel to turn down that deal? He switched representation to Klutch that summer, and I seem to remember some internet sniping between Noel's former agent and Rich Paul over the declined extension. I was left with the impression that Noel's former agent actually wanted him to sign that $70 million deal and Noel switched to Klutch looking for something in excess of $20 million a year (which obviously never materialized) rather than what was, at the time, Timo Mozgov money.

Then again, I also don't have access to the specifics and may be misremembering.

There was sniping by Happy Walters, but Noel signed his QO 5 days after switching agents, and that reported offer (reported by his agent himself) was off the table long before the switch.  I assume it was someone in Noel’s camp that nixed the deal, and not another agent. If Noel turned down that deal because Rich Paul told him to do so while still being represented by Walters, that might have ended up in court over the lost commission.

Fair enough, but I still got the sense Walters had wanted Noel to sign that deal, as opposed to pushing him to turn it down in order to hunt a max contract. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: The Oracle on July 07, 2018, 02:19:31 PM
The more I look at this the more it comes off as having questionable representation. This is the same agent that represented Noel (who he fired)who turned down $70 million and was forced to take a minimum deal this summer. This agent doesn’t exactly have the greatest NBA clientele, almost all role players.

Wasn't there some uncertainty about who exactly advised Noel to turn down that deal? He switched representation to Klutch that summer, and I seem to remember some internet sniping between Noel's former agent and Rich Paul over the declined extension. I was left with the impression that Noel's former agent actually wanted him to sign that $70 million deal and Noel switched to Klutch looking for something in excess of $20 million a year (which obviously never materialized) rather than what was, at the time, Timo Mozgov money.

Then again, I also don't have access to the specifics and may be misremembering.

There was sniping by Happy Walters, but Noel signed his QO 5 days after switching agents, and that reported offer (reported by his agent himself) was off the table long before the switch.  I assume it was someone in Noel’s camp that nixed the deal, and not another agent. If Noel turned down that deal because Rich Paul told him to do so while still being represented by Walters, that might have ended up in court over the lost commission.
The $70 million offer the Mavs had on the table was only good until free agency opened last summer.  Happy Walters said later on that he had told Noel to take the offer and Noel declined as he wanted more.  The second free agency opened the Mavs did pull the offer off the table and it is unclear as to what the subsequent discussions were.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 07, 2018, 02:30:29 PM
The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.

Where was Smart's good will when he reportedly passed on an offer of $11m per?

I'm generally pro-player when it comes to guys getting their money, but players don't take less money to generate good will from their teams, so why should the team do it in the other direction?  Marcus isn't going to fight with the team, settle on a contract, and then say "OK, now, for the sake of good will, let's take a million dollars per season off what we just agreed upon".

Danny has developed a reputation of being cut throat, not only to opposing GMs but to his own players. He’s well within his rights to never pay a penny more than he has to, but again citing leagues that have salary arbitration, it doesn’t seem to be the best strategy for player relationships with the team.

And, many players do take less, the guys in Golden State being a prime example.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: nickagneta on July 07, 2018, 02:34:24 PM
My guess is Danny is perfectly comfortable waiting until all potential teams with cap space have exhausted their funds, at which point Danny will approach Smart with a low ball offer (basically MLE money). Smart will then be forced to choose between that or the QO. 

I'm betting Smart takes the QO.
I agree with all this except for the wording that the MLE money, around $8.5 million is a low ball offer for Marcus. I think a 4 year $34 million offer is pretty fair calue for Smart. And if no one other than Boston is offering that, then that's his market value.

I think Smart has a severely overrated opinion of what his market value is. I blame that on poor representation. His agent should have known about the poor market for RFAs this year and known that poor offensive players, especially poor shooters that like to shoot, don't get big bucks.

I have no problem with Roy's idea of offering him an $8 million one year guaranteed contract with an option. But if Smart takes that, or the QO, is he going to be effected mentally because he feels he should be making 2 to 3 times more than that? Could he be a problem in the locker room because he will feel he has been shafted? I wonder.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Scintan on July 07, 2018, 02:38:09 PM
The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.

Where was Smart's good will when he reportedly passed on an offer of $11m per?

I'm generally pro-player when it comes to guys getting their money, but players don't take less money to generate good will from their teams, so why should the team do it in the other direction?  Marcus isn't going to fight with the team, settle on a contract, and then say "OK, now, for the sake of good will, let's take a million dollars per season off what we just agreed upon".

Danny has developed a reputation of being cut throat, not only to opposing GMs but to his own players. He’s well within his rights to never pay a penny more than he has to, but again citing leagues that have salary arbitration, it doesn’t seem to be the best strategy for player relationships with the team.

And, many players do take less, the guys in Golden State being a prime example.

Golden State players aren't taking less money out of goodwill towards the team.  They are taking less in order to keep the roster together.  That's different reasoning.

I've got no problem with a team deciding to give a player a pay raise, for whatever reason.  It's their choice, and sometimes (generally when they've got a huge underpay going) it's the right thing to do.  But the idea that they should do so in order to build good will, particularly after the player turned down an offer for more money previously, makes no sense to me. 
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: The Oracle on July 07, 2018, 02:40:10 PM
The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.

Where was Smart's good will when he reportedly passed on an offer of $11m per?

I'm generally pro-player when it comes to guys getting their money, but players don't take less money to generate good will from their teams, so why should the team do it in the other direction?  Marcus isn't going to fight with the team, settle on a contract, and then say "OK, now, for the sake of good will, let's take a million dollars per season off what we just agreed upon".

Danny has developed a reputation of being cut throat, not only to opposing GMs but to his own players. He’s well within his rights to never pay a penny more than he has to, but again citing leagues that have salary arbitration, it doesn’t seem to be the best strategy for player relationships with the team.

And, many players do take less, the guys in Golden State being a prime example.
And Marcus Smart is well within his rights to hold out or sign the QO and say he is done with the Celtics after next season.  Danny doesn't hold all the cards here as next off season looks like a bounty compared to this one and Smart would then be unrestricted.  Smart doesn't want to play on the QO next season but the C's shouldn't want that either as it could force them into a larger contract or Smart being lost for nothing and leaving them in a position where they cannot replace him.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: KGs Knee on July 07, 2018, 03:07:13 PM
My guess is Danny is perfectly comfortable waiting until all potential teams with cap space have exhausted their funds, at which point Danny will approach Smart with a low ball offer (basically MLE money). Smart will then be forced to choose between that or the QO. 

I'm betting Smart takes the QO.
I agree with all this except for the wording that the MLE money, around $8.5 million is a low ball offer for Marcus. I think a 4 year $34 million offer is pretty fair calue for Smart. And if no one other than Boston is offering that, then that's his market value.

I think Smart has a severely overrated opinion of what his market value is. I blame that on poor representation. His agent should have known about the poor market for RFAs this year and known that poor offensive players, especially poor shooters that like to shoot, don't get big bucks.

I have no problem with Roy's idea of offering him an $8 million one year guaranteed contract with an option. But if Smart takes that, or the QO, is he going to be effected mentally because he feels he should be making 2 to 3 times more than that? Could he be a problem in the locker room because he will feel he has been shafted? I wonder.

Oh, I agree that anything around MLE type money is probably fair value for Smart. I've been saying that for a while. I meant that Smart would view that as a low ball offer.

As to whether or not Smart would then spend the year unhappy about it, I guess that's something Danny has to consider, but I'm not sure it's meaningful enough to overpay, or put the team over the tax threshold.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Phantom255x on July 07, 2018, 04:59:29 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: nickagneta on July 07, 2018, 05:10:40 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 07, 2018, 05:15:36 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: KGs Knee on July 07, 2018, 05:23:20 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

There's some merit to this, but Ainge still has to think Smart is actually worth paying that much money.  It doesn't really matter how much Ainge thinks some other team might be willing to pay Smart as an UFA if it's more than he is comfortable with.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: playdream on July 07, 2018, 05:28:16 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.
$14-16? Nah he aren't gonna get it
Next year Smart will be playing less mins and a lesser role, there is no way his value will rise more than this year
This year is his time, he bet on it and he blew it, if he can't take the consequence of his own decision and keep whining i have no problem let him go after next season, and i love Smart
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 07, 2018, 05:30:42 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

There's some merit to this, but Ainge still has to think Smart is actually worth paying that much money.  It doesn't really matter how much Ainge thinks some other team might be willing to pay Smart as an UFA if it's more than he is comfortable with.

Yes, there’s an assumption in there that Ainge agrees that Smart is worth what other teams does, or at least an amount less than that he could get Smart to agree to.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: nickagneta on July 07, 2018, 05:32:25 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.
Gigantic if. Gigantic.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: byennie on July 07, 2018, 05:36:08 PM
3 yrs $30M as a 2+1

Team gets him at $10M per. He gets the same money over the next two years as QO + $14M next year. He makes an extra $3M this year, a nice raise from his rookie deal. After that, he can opt to stay for $11M or go after the money.

Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: liam on July 07, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
If The Celtics win a championship Smart is going to get a whopping big pay day at the end of next season so maybe he should just sign the QO...
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: vjcsmoke on July 07, 2018, 05:52:32 PM
I'm thinking 3/33m makes sense.  You could do it as 2+1.  Marcus could opt out after 2 years and chase bigger money.  He would be able to hit free agency at a still very young age 26.  Gives the team slightly longer control and Marcus gets the security he can stay 3 years if he wants or bet on himself in free agency relatively soon.

The Celtics are silent because they are waiting for RFA offers and they can match if they need to.  When free agency is over I guess they make the multi-year offer and if I were Smart's agent I'd either advise him to choose to play on the QO or just get a big raise now, and a couple years later go for it at age 26 in free agency. 

But playing on the QO sacrifices an immediate pay bump and there's no guarantee Smart would get a hugely better offer next year.  Especially if his shooting ability stays the same.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 07, 2018, 08:40:38 PM
Quote
“While no deal is imminent, two #NBA officials whose teams have had some level of interest in Marcus Smart are getting a strong sense he will sign the $6.1M qualifying offer made by the #Celtics and become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2019.”

https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/1015688018542383104
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Beat LA on July 07, 2018, 08:49:36 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

Who would ever give Smart that kind of money? That's just insane, imo, lol ;D.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: liam on July 07, 2018, 08:58:48 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

Who would ever give Smart that kind of money? That's just insane, imo, lol ;D.

The Kings?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Dino Pitino on July 07, 2018, 09:02:26 PM
Quote
“While no deal is imminent, two #NBA officials whose teams have had some level of interest in Marcus Smart are getting a strong sense he will sign the $6.1M qualifying offer made by the #Celtics and become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2019.”

https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/1015688018542383104

I'm glad he'll be back for a year. I wonder how much he'll get next summer after a season of coming off the bench for, what, 20-25 minutes a game?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: aefgogreen on July 07, 2018, 09:16:47 PM
Ainge never pays more than he has to.  And if a mistake has to be made, he'd rather pass on someone he should have kept than.signed someone he should have let go.  If Smart doesn't get a better offer, Ainge will punt on making a decision this year and let Smart take the QO.  I doubt there is going to be enough money on the table next year for teams to make a significantly higher offer.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Beat LA on July 07, 2018, 09:20:43 PM
I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).
Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

Who would ever give Smart that kind of money? That's just insane, imo, lol ;D.

The Kings?

I was honestly going to say that but elected not to do so, lol ;D, so TP.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Snakehead on July 07, 2018, 09:24:03 PM
From my read on it Ainge is just letting the business run its course.  I think he legitimately likes Smart enough to pay him the money but with the way the team is set up it can't happen at that price.  And the market has been perfectly down for him unfortunately.

I'm sympathetic because the guy plays so hard and deserves to be payed.  I really do think if he ends up making like 9 or 10 million he is a lot better than guys making that much money. 

I just need this guy to be on the team.  I'm a big fan if people can't tell but I would be bummed about, especially because of his fit on a team that is going to have plenty of scoring anyways.  I hope it can happen for years but how it's going I am expecting a 1 or 2 year deal.  Hope to be wrong and he can be on for years to come.  He is truly one of my favorite players of all time from watching him over his time here and I think there's a lot more great play to come from him.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on July 08, 2018, 03:57:05 AM
Marcus Smart rumors ?

Yeah - Danny has not seen fit to at least stay in contact with Marcus and has now angered a guy who gives everything he has to the team and has clearly stated how much he wants to stay a Celtic - unlike someone else I could mention. It means something to him to put that jersey on.

Why does Danny do stuff like this and alienate players from the organization ? I am not asking that he offer the guy $12M per and hold a parade, but at the very least, stay in contact and make sure Marcus knows that you want him in Boston. Would that be so hard to do?

Danny publicly shops these guys and treats them like chess pieces. The Celts are getting the reputation of being a heartless organization that is only about business. Danny could take a lesson from Red. It's not that hard to make players feel appreciated, even while you are careful about the bottom line.  He is going to ruin all the hard work that has gone into this team.

Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: makaveli on July 08, 2018, 05:30:53 AM
Marcus Smart rumors ?

Yeah - Danny has not seen fit to at least stay in contact with Marcus and has now angered a guy who gives everything he has to the team and has clearly stated how much he wants to stay a Celtic - unlike someone else I could mention. It means something to him to put that jersey on.

Why does Danny do stuff like this and alienate players from the organization ? I am not asking that he offer the guy $12M per and hold a parade, but at the very least, stay in contact and make sure Marcus knows that you want him in Boston. Would that be so hard to do?

Danny publicly shops these guys and treats them like chess pieces. The Celts are getting the reputation of being a heartless organization that is only about business. Danny could take a lesson from Red. It's not that hard to make players feel appreciated, even while you are careful about the bottom line.  He is going to ruin all the hard work that has gone into this team.

Marcus was offered a contract extension, he declined, betted on himself. I do not believe that hr was not contacted or whatever, danny values marcus, or he would have been gone via trade long ago. It is just a matter of patience.
If i was marcus i would tske a 4 year contraxt ASAP, because he will have a tough time finding minutes at the end of the game with all of our guys healthy, and that is where he earned his value.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: RJ87 on July 08, 2018, 06:21:39 AM
Marcus Smart rumors ?

Yeah - Danny has not seen fit to at least stay in contact with Marcus and has now angered a guy who gives everything he has to the team and has clearly stated how much he wants to stay a Celtic - unlike someone else I could mention. It means something to him to put that jersey on.

Why does Danny do stuff like this and alienate players from the organization ? I am not asking that he offer the guy $12M per and hold a parade, but at the very least, stay in contact and make sure Marcus knows that you want him in Boston. Would that be so hard to do?

Danny publicly shops these guys and treats them like chess pieces. The Celts are getting the reputation of being a heartless organization that is only about business. Danny could take a lesson from Red. It's not that hard to make players feel appreciated, even while you are careful about the bottom line.  He is going to ruin all the hard work that has gone into this team.

In all fairness, it doesn't take a whole to anger Marcus now, does it? He's emotional, I have a feeling that plays as much of a part in the lack interest from other teams as much as his historically bad offense.

The Celtics made an offer believed to be in the range of $11m-$12m earlier this year, but Marcus thinks he's worth more. That's fine. Its the offseason now, Celtics extend the qualifying offer and basically say "you think you're worth more than what we offered? Go get that offer sheet." I don't see the problem there. Maybe he should direct his anger at his agent for not properly evaluating the market for him.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: gouki88 on July 08, 2018, 07:46:04 AM
Marcus Smart rumors ?

Yeah - Danny has not seen fit to at least stay in contact with Marcus and has now angered a guy who gives everything he has to the team and has clearly stated how much he wants to stay a Celtic - unlike someone else I could mention. It means something to him to put that jersey on.

Why does Danny do stuff like this and alienate players from the organization ? I am not asking that he offer the guy $12M per and hold a parade, but at the very least, stay in contact and make sure Marcus knows that you want him in Boston. Would that be so hard to do?

Danny publicly shops these guys and treats them like chess pieces. The Celts are getting the reputation of being a heartless organization that is only about business. Danny could take a lesson from Red. It's not that hard to make players feel appreciated, even while you are careful about the bottom line.  He is going to ruin all the hard work that has gone into this team.

In all fairness, it doesn't take a whole to anger Marcus now, does it? He's emotional, I have a feeling that plays as much of a part in the lack interest from other teams as much as his historically bad offense.

The Celtics made an offer believed to be in the range of $11m-$12m earlier this year, but Marcus thinks he's worth more. That's fine. Its the offseason now, Celtics extend the qualifying offer and basically say "you think you're worth more than what we offered? Go get that offer sheet." I don't see the problem there. Maybe he should direct his anger at his agent for not properly evaluating the market for him.
Yeah, the bold is absolutely key
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: mctyson on July 08, 2018, 08:15:33 AM
From my read on it Ainge is just letting the business run its course.  I think he legitimately likes Smart enough to pay him the money but with the way the team is set up it can't happen at that price.  And the market has been perfectly down for him unfortunately.

I'm sympathetic because the guy plays so hard and deserves to be payed.  I really do think if he ends up making like 9 or 10 million he is a lot better than guys making that much money. 

I just need this guy to be on the team.  I'm a big fan if people can't tell but I would be bummed about, especially because of his fit on a team that is going to have plenty of scoring anyways.  I hope it can happen for years but how it's going I am expecting a 1 or 2 year deal.  Hope to be wrong and he can be on for years to come.  He is truly one of my favorite players of all time from watching him over his time here and I think there's a lot more great play to come from him.

Lost in all of this is the fact that Ainge already made Smart an extension offer - before the season started in 2017. 

Smart rejected that because he believed he could get more from another team this offseason.  That obviously has not happened yet, and might not happen at all.  So the ball is really in his court at this point.  The Celtics have no reason to get this done quickly.

And if he signs the qualifying offer, that is just fine for the 2018-2019 Celtics.  He will be become unrestricted next year, yet that does not magically make him a more valuable player as no one is going to offer him a max deal. 
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Phantom255x on July 08, 2018, 11:39:04 AM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on July 08, 2018, 11:48:45 AM
appears nobody wants him, but Danny


steve auston ....no Martus Smart

six million dollar man
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: RJ87 on July 08, 2018, 11:50:15 AM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: playdream on July 08, 2018, 12:14:30 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: tazzmaniac on July 08, 2018, 12:28:23 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier. 
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Boris Badenov on July 08, 2018, 01:59:55 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.

He *might* get paid more.

First, he could get hurt. With his style of play and history that's a significant risk.

Second, he could plateau or even regress offensively. It'll be one more data point suggesting that he will never develop a quality 3pt shot or offensive game.

Third, there are more teams with cap room, but a lot more players will be free agents too, including a lot of guys who signed one-year contracts or QOs this year to chase the money next year. It's just simple math - higher cap room comes from a higher number of players without contracts.

So, there are a lot of variables that could mean signing something like a 4/40 deal this year is the wise choice. Including the value of a sure thing vs. uncertainty.


Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Birdman on July 08, 2018, 02:01:18 PM
Guy cant shoot and kind of headcase is why no one going give him big money
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 08, 2018, 02:57:31 PM
Quote
The only teams with cap space to make the Celtics sweat on Marcus Smart are Atlanta, Brooklyn and Sacramento. One team exec said “They all have young PGs they love. Everyone would love to have a guy like Smart, but not for non-contenders who have their own young guys to develop.”

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1015964234641883136
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 08, 2018, 03:24:52 PM
Quote
The only teams with cap space to make the Celtics sweat on Marcus Smart are Atlanta, Brooklyn and Sacramento. One team exec said “They all have young PGs they love. Everyone would love to have a guy like Smart, but not for non-contenders who have their own young guys to develop.”

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1015964234641883136

Unless Howard gave back a ton of money, Brooklyn doesn’t the cap space to make Boston sweat at all.  Only Atlanta, Chicago and Sacramento have that space.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 08, 2018, 03:26:12 PM
Quote
The only teams with cap space to make the Celtics sweat on Marcus Smart are Atlanta, Brooklyn and Sacramento. One team exec said “They all have young PGs they love. Everyone would love to have a guy like Smart, but not for non-contenders who have their own young guys to develop.”

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1015964234641883136

Unless Howard gave back a ton of money, Brooklyn doesn’t the cap space to make Boston sweat at all.  Only Atlanta, Chicago and Sacramento have that space.

He have back somewhere between $4 - $5 million.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 08, 2018, 03:33:35 PM
Quote
The only teams with cap space to make the Celtics sweat on Marcus Smart are Atlanta, Brooklyn and Sacramento. One team exec said “They all have young PGs they love. Everyone would love to have a guy like Smart, but not for non-contenders who have their own young guys to develop.”

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1015964234641883136

Unless Howard gave back a ton of money, Brooklyn doesn’t the cap space to make Boston sweat at all.  Only Atlanta, Chicago and Sacramento have that space.

He have back somewhere between $4 - $5 million.

He’d need to have given back about $10 million for Brooklyn to be a factor.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: nickagneta on July 08, 2018, 03:37:42 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Scintan on July 08, 2018, 04:00:50 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 08, 2018, 04:02:30 PM
Celts need to get this done and soon. I want a happy Marcus Smart on my team.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: nickagneta on July 08, 2018, 04:16:58 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Not a lot of good bigs at the top of next year's draft, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Scintan on July 08, 2018, 04:38:06 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Not a lot of good bigs at the top of next year's draft, unfortunately.

That's why I didn't want the Celtics giving up the Brooklyn pick last year, but that's a dead issue now, so Danny will have to find a way to make it work.  The Celtics don't need wings.  They need a true big, and it's up to Ainge to get one.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 08, 2018, 04:39:30 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Not a lot of good bigs at the top of next year's draft, unfortunately.

That's why I didn't want the Celtics giving up the Brooklyn pick last year, but that's a dead issue now, so Danny will have to find a way to make it work.

Of course all the top bigs were gone even by the time the Brooklyn pick came up, so it’s moot anyway.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: KGs Knee on July 08, 2018, 04:50:28 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Not a lot of good bigs at the top of next year's draft, unfortunately.

That's why I didn't want the Celtics giving up the Brooklyn pick last year, but that's a dead issue now, so Danny will have to find a way to make it work.

Of course all the top bigs were gone even by the time the Brooklyn pick came up, so it’s moot anyway.

Well, Ainge could have traded up from 8 to grab one of the top bigs.

But I'm much happier we have Kyrie anyways, so I'm not worried.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on July 08, 2018, 07:33:15 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Not a lot of good bigs at the top of next year's draft, unfortunately.

That's why I didn't want the Celtics giving up the Brooklyn pick last year, but that's a dead issue now, so Danny will have to find a way to make it work.

Of course all the top bigs were gone even by the time the Brooklyn pick came up, so it’s moot anyway.

Well, Ainge could have traded up from 8 to grab one of the top bigs.

But I'm much happier we have Kyrie anyways, so I'm not worried.

Just because we're buying, doesn't mean other teams are selling. Especially when all the other teams in the lottery knew this was a good year. How much was Danny willing to overpay to move up 2-3 spots?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Dino Pitino on July 08, 2018, 07:37:04 PM
Quote
Of course all the top bigs were gone even by the time the Brooklyn pick came up, so it’s moot anyway.


The best available big at #8 would've been Williams. :)
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Scintan on July 08, 2018, 09:16:14 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Not a lot of good bigs at the top of next year's draft, unfortunately.

That's why I didn't want the Celtics giving up the Brooklyn pick last year, but that's a dead issue now, so Danny will have to find a way to make it work.

Of course all the top bigs were gone even by the time the Brooklyn pick came up, so it’s moot anyway.

One could argue Porter, and one could argue that Boston lucked into one with Williams, but it's all irrelevant as anything other than a footnote at this point, anyway.  And, thanks to Brooklyn's pick falling to 8th, people's remorse over the trade is mostly "what if?" at this point, as opposed to "See?".

The team needs a center.  Here's to hoping that Williams works out, and that Ainge finds another one in next year's draft, as well.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Vermont Green on July 08, 2018, 09:41:09 PM
With Dwight Howard reportedly signing in Washington, I don't know who else is left that the Celtics would sign other than Marcus.  Tough year to be a FA.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Androslav on July 08, 2018, 09:44:28 PM
QO.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: nickagneta on July 08, 2018, 09:54:29 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Not a lot of good bigs at the top of next year's draft, unfortunately.

That's why I didn't want the Celtics giving up the Brooklyn pick last year, but that's a dead issue now, so Danny will have to find a way to make it work.

Of course all the top bigs were gone even by the time the Brooklyn pick came up, so it’s moot anyway.

One could argue Porter, and one could argue that Boston lucked into one with Williams, but it's all irrelevant as anything other than a footnote at this point, anyway.  And, thanks to Brooklyn's pick falling to 8th, people's remorse over the trade is mostly "what if?" at this point, as opposed to "See?".

The team needs a center.  Here's to hoping that Williams works out, and that Ainge finds another one in next year's draft, as well.
The team has Al Horford a 2nd team All-Defense center who also happens to be the best passing center in the league while scoring 13 PPG and gets 7.5 RPG. Al also shoots 43% from three on good volume.

They also just sign Baynes for 2 years and he put up some of the best defensive stats for centers in the league. He's the best rim protector they have and a presence down low.

Then Celtics drafted a guy who was expected to go top 10 who is a center and could develop into a better defensive version of Clint Capella. It will take a few years to see. There's no rush to add a center in next years draft that might cost you a superstar at another position because you're to busy taking the best center available.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: trickybilly on July 08, 2018, 10:53:07 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on July 08, 2018, 11:14:01 PM
apologies if this was already posted:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/smart-likely-sign-qualifying-offer-return-celtics

Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 08, 2018, 11:23:11 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: trickybilly on July 09, 2018, 02:31:26 AM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.

TP. As always.

I was surprised to learn that Smart can still field offers until training camp. EDIT: (Camp starts October 1)

Surely we can't be expected to wait several more weeks to see if someone can move enough money around to make him a big offer...
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 09, 2018, 07:20:51 AM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.

TP. As always.

I was surprised to learn that Smart can still field offers until training camp. EDIT: (Camp starts October 1)

Surely we can't be expected to wait several more weeks to see if someone can move enough money around to make him a big offer...

If we don’t want to wait that long, we can rescind his QO by July 13th unilaterally, or later if he agrees to the QO being revoked.  I don’t see either happening, so it could drag on a while.  On October 1st the Celtics can make the QO go away but Smart would still be restricted, reducing his leverage further, so it will likely end by that date.  If it goes beyond the next week or so, I expect it won’t be resolved until late September, because deadlines have a way of making things happen.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: celticinorlando on July 09, 2018, 08:30:44 AM
@AdamHimmelsbach said on @NBCSBoston it's possible Marcus Smart's free agency could linger until September or October, considering neither side is in a rush to get the deal done. #Celtics
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: loco_91 on July 09, 2018, 11:03:05 AM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.

Great analysis re: implications for Rozier
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Scintan on July 09, 2018, 03:27:33 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Not a lot of good bigs at the top of next year's draft, unfortunately.

That's why I didn't want the Celtics giving up the Brooklyn pick last year, but that's a dead issue now, so Danny will have to find a way to make it work.

Of course all the top bigs were gone even by the time the Brooklyn pick came up, so it’s moot anyway.

One could argue Porter, and one could argue that Boston lucked into one with Williams, but it's all irrelevant as anything other than a footnote at this point, anyway.  And, thanks to Brooklyn's pick falling to 8th, people's remorse over the trade is mostly "what if?" at this point, as opposed to "See?".

The team needs a center.  Here's to hoping that Williams works out, and that Ainge finds another one in next year's draft, as well.
The team has Al Horford a 2nd team All-Defense center who also happens to be the best passing center in the league while scoring 13 PPG and gets 7.5 RPG. Al also shoots 43% from three on good volume.

They also just sign Baynes for 2 years and he put up some of the best defensive stats for centers in the league. He's the best rim protector they have and a presence down low.

Then Celtics drafted a guy who was expected to go top 10 who is a center and could develop into a better defensive version of Clint Capella. It will take a few years to see. There's no rush to add a center in next years draft that might cost you a superstar at another position because you're to busy taking the best center available.

The team is covered on the wings, with the combination of Tatum, Brown and Hayward.  Unless the plan is to be rid of Smart, Irving and Rozier, the team is covered at the point.  The team is not covered at center.  The center position is comprised of a #1 and #2 who are over 30 and can opt out of their deals after this year, and the young pick you mention hasn't played a second of NBA ball.

So, while future events could obviously change the equation, we're looking at things from the lens of what's there today.  And, as of today, if there's not a rush to add a center, there should be.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: td450 on July 09, 2018, 03:52:50 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 09, 2018, 04:07:43 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.

They could try, but ultimately I think Rozier wants to be a starter in his own right, whereas Marcus doesn’t seem to need that role.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: footey on July 09, 2018, 04:52:09 PM
Why wouldn’t a team with sufficient cap space (ex. Kings?) sign Smart to one year offer of $15mm?  Enough to screw Celtics tax planning but term short so the new team not really taking a lot of risk. Maybe team takes option for a second year at same rate, in case he really proves valuable.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: JHTruth on July 09, 2018, 05:07:54 PM
I think we need to try to lock up Smart on a multi-year deal.

If he signs the QO, we keep him but probably only for a year. We don't keep his Bird Rights after this year (if he re-signs with QO), right?

No, we keep his bird rights. He'd just be unrestricted so we'd lose the right to match.
His value isn't going higher next season
So it will be his choice to stay on the team or not
And if he decide to leave, well i don't want a player who don't want to be here anyway
He'll have a much better opportunity to get paid next offseason.  He'll be a UFA and teams will have significantly more cap space.  We'll be focused on re-signing Irving and possibly Horford. 
Could end up losing both Smart and Rozier.
Rozier will be restricted next year. Doubt we lose them both in same year, besides, we could have a very high draft pick, like top 5, to replace Smart, and another pick that could be in the lottery to replace Rozier.

That top 5 pick needs to go for a big, preferably an actual center.
Not a lot of good bigs at the top of next year's draft, unfortunately.

That's why I didn't want the Celtics giving up the Brooklyn pick last year, but that's a dead issue now, so Danny will have to find a way to make it work.

Of course all the top bigs were gone even by the time the Brooklyn pick came up, so it’s moot anyway.

One could argue Porter, and one could argue that Boston lucked into one with Williams, but it's all irrelevant as anything other than a footnote at this point, anyway.  And, thanks to Brooklyn's pick falling to 8th, people's remorse over the trade is mostly "what if?" at this point, as opposed to "See?".

The team needs a center.  Here's to hoping that Williams works out, and that Ainge finds another one in next year's draft, as well.
The team has Al Horford a 2nd team All-Defense center who also happens to be the best passing center in the league while scoring 13 PPG and gets 7.5 RPG. Al also shoots 43% from three on good volume.

They also just sign Baynes for 2 years and he put up some of the best defensive stats for centers in the league. He's the best rim protector they have and a presence down low.

Then Celtics drafted a guy who was expected to go top 10 who is a center and could develop into a better defensive version of Clint Capella. It will take a few years to see. There's no rush to add a center in next years draft that might cost you a superstar at another position because you're to busy taking the best center available.

Honestly they should be looking at the 4 of the future next year. We'll be set for a few with Hayward/Tatum. But would love to get that 10-year guy..
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: td450 on July 09, 2018, 05:09:46 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.

They could try, but ultimately I think Rozier wants to be a starter in his own right, whereas Marcus doesn’t seem to need that role.
That may be true. But its also possible Rozier may prefer to stay a Celtic, especially if he can be the first guard off the bench.

I still stand by the idea that it may be in everyone's interest to resolve these issues now. Neither Smart or Rozier will likely never again play as much as they did last year for this team. It will only get worse after next year unless Kyrie decides to go elsewhere.

If Rozier wants to be a starter, maybe now is the optimal time for both him and the team to make a move. If we only keep one of these guys, the minutes should be OK. If we keep both, I don't see either being happy with the result.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: JHTruth on July 09, 2018, 05:10:46 PM
appears nobody wants him, but Danny


steve auston ....no Martus Smart

six million dollar man

Smart's game is only valuable to a really good team. His hustle/grit off the bench are perfect for a contender.

To a young rebuilding team, he's be a terrible fit, especially competing for minutes with a young guy the team is trying to develop.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: JHTruth on July 09, 2018, 05:13:10 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.

They could try, but ultimately I think Rozier wants to be a starter in his own right, whereas Marcus doesn’t seem to need that role.
That may be true. But its also possible Rozier may prefer to stay a Celtic, especially if he can be the first guard off the bench.

I still stand by the idea that it may be in everyone's interest to resolve these issues now. Neither Smart or Rozier will likely never again play as much as they did last year for this team. It will only get worse after next year unless Kyrie decides to go elsewhere.

If Rozier wants to be a starter, maybe now is the optimal time for both him and the team to make a move. If we only keep one of these guys, the minutes should be OK. If we keep both, I don't see either being happy with the result.

Realistically we have to keep Rozier until Kyrie re-signs officially. Smart and Bird are not the answer at starting PG..
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: droopdog7 on July 09, 2018, 05:26:37 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.

They could try, but ultimately I think Rozier wants to be a starter in his own right, whereas Marcus doesn’t seem to need that role.
That may be true. But its also possible Rozier may prefer to stay a Celtic, especially if he can be the first guard off the bench.

I still stand by the idea that it may be in everyone's interest to resolve these issues now. Neither Smart or Rozier will likely never again play as much as they did last year for this team. It will only get worse after next year unless Kyrie decides to go elsewhere.

If Rozier wants to be a starter, maybe now is the optimal time for both him and the team to make a move. If we only keep one of these guys, the minutes should be OK. If we keep both, I don't see either being happy with the result.

Realistically we have to keep Rozier until Kyrie re-signs officially. Smart and Bird are not the answer at starting PG..
Rozier isn't the answer either. 
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: colincb on July 09, 2018, 05:36:44 PM
Why wouldn’t a team with sufficient cap space (ex. Kings?) sign Smart to one year offer of $15mm?  Enough to screw Celtics tax planning but term short so the new team not really taking a lot of risk. Maybe team takes option for a second year at same rate, in case he really proves valuable.

CBA:

Quote
The offer sheet must be for at least two seasons (not including option years)...
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: JHTruth on July 09, 2018, 06:00:52 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.

They could try, but ultimately I think Rozier wants to be a starter in his own right, whereas Marcus doesn’t seem to need that role.
That may be true. But its also possible Rozier may prefer to stay a Celtic, especially if he can be the first guard off the bench.

I still stand by the idea that it may be in everyone's interest to resolve these issues now. Neither Smart or Rozier will likely never again play as much as they did last year for this team. It will only get worse after next year unless Kyrie decides to go elsewhere.

If Rozier wants to be a starter, maybe now is the optimal time for both him and the team to make a move. If we only keep one of these guys, the minutes should be OK. If we keep both, I don't see either being happy with the result.

Realistically we have to keep Rozier until Kyrie re-signs officially. Smart and Bird are not the answer at starting PG..
Rozier isn't the answer either.

He's a starting quality PG. I mean he needs some more growth but he's getting pretty dang good..
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: td450 on July 09, 2018, 06:42:16 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.

They could try, but ultimately I think Rozier wants to be a starter in his own right, whereas Marcus doesn’t seem to need that role.
That may be true. But its also possible Rozier may prefer to stay a Celtic, especially if he can be the first guard off the bench.

I still stand by the idea that it may be in everyone's interest to resolve these issues now. Neither Smart or Rozier will likely never again play as much as they did last year for this team. It will only get worse after next year unless Kyrie decides to go elsewhere.

If Rozier wants to be a starter, maybe now is the optimal time for both him and the team to make a move. If we only keep one of these guys, the minutes should be OK. If we keep both, I don't see either being happy with the result.

Realistically we have to keep Rozier until Kyrie re-signs officially. Smart and Bird are not the answer at starting PG..
Why worry about keeping Rozier?

The easiest position to fill in the NBA is point guard. We've got a foreseeable future where our wings can make plays all day long off the dribble. We would be better off starting a 6'6 athlete at the point that can defend at a high level and shoot 3's. If we got a decent return for Rozier, with all the draft picks and assets we'd have, it would be easy enough to move on from Kyrie, if he was crazy enough to want to leave.

I think we would even have cap space to sign a major free agent.



Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: nickagneta on July 09, 2018, 07:44:38 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.

They could try, but ultimately I think Rozier wants to be a starter in his own right, whereas Marcus doesn’t seem to need that role.
That may be true. But its also possible Rozier may prefer to stay a Celtic, especially if he can be the first guard off the bench.

I still stand by the idea that it may be in everyone's interest to resolve these issues now. Neither Smart or Rozier will likely never again play as much as they did last year for this team. It will only get worse after next year unless Kyrie decides to go elsewhere.

If Rozier wants to be a starter, maybe now is the optimal time for both him and the team to make a move. If we only keep one of these guys, the minutes should be OK. If we keep both, I don't see either being happy with the result.

Realistically we have to keep Rozier until Kyrie re-signs officially. Smart and Bird are not the answer at starting PG..
Why worry about keeping Rozier?

The easiest position to fill in the NBA is point guard. We've got a foreseeable future where our wings can make plays all day long off the dribble. We would be better off starting a 6'6 athlete at the point that can defend at a high level and shoot 3's. If we got a decent return for Rozier, with all the draft picks and assets we'd have, it would be easy enough to move on from Kyrie, if he was crazy enough to want to leave.

I think we would even have cap space to sign a major free agent.
No...no we wouldn't. We might be some millions below the cap if we renounce Irving, Rozier, and Theis and don't pick up the options on Yabusele, Nader and Ojeleye. But it wouldn't be anywhere near enough to sign a star player.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: CelticsJG on July 09, 2018, 08:36:45 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.

They could try, but ultimately I think Rozier wants to be a starter in his own right, whereas Marcus doesn’t seem to need that role.
That may be true. But its also possible Rozier may prefer to stay a Celtic, especially if he can be the first guard off the bench.

I still stand by the idea that it may be in everyone's interest to resolve these issues now. Neither Smart or Rozier will likely never again play as much as they did last year for this team. It will only get worse after next year unless Kyrie decides to go elsewhere.

If Rozier wants to be a starter, maybe now is the optimal time for both him and the team to make a move. If we only keep one of these guys, the minutes should be OK. If we keep both, I don't see either being happy with the result.

Realistically we have to keep Rozier until Kyrie re-signs officially. Smart and Bird are not the answer at starting PG..
Why worry about keeping Rozier?

The easiest position to fill in the NBA is point guard. We've got a foreseeable future where our wings can make plays all day long off the dribble. We would be better off starting a 6'6 athlete at the point that can defend at a high level and shoot 3's. If we got a decent return for Rozier, with all the draft picks and assets we'd have, it would be easy enough to move on from Kyrie, if he was crazy enough to want to leave.

I think we would even have cap space to sign a major free agent.

You need an elite guard to win in todays NBA
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: footey on July 09, 2018, 08:44:23 PM
Why wouldn’t a team with sufficient cap space (ex. Kings?) sign Smart to one year offer of $15mm?  Enough to screw Celtics tax planning but term short so the new team not really taking a lot of risk. Maybe team takes option for a second year at same rate, in case he really proves valuable.

CBA:

Quote
The offer sheet must be for at least two seasons (not including option years)...

Tp thx.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 09, 2018, 08:47:04 PM
@Saltlover:

Just curious if Marcus does take the QO, what further moves do you think are most likely? And what salary implications are there for next offseason, when Marcus will be much more able to get a much better (and much longer) deal?

It depends when Marcus signs the QO.  If he signs it tomorrow, we’d be at 15, but with enough tax room to sign another player while staying under the tax and releasing Nader without having to stretch him.  I expect that would happen (most likely with Bird being signed, but perhaps a vet free agent).  If Marcus waited until training camp, it’s likely Nader would have been stretched, but perhaps he’d still be on the roster.  Some of that depends on Bird — will he have accepted the QO by then, gotten an offer that we’ve matched, gotten an offer that wasn’t matched, or gone overseas?  Can’t say, honestly.  If Bird has required us to make a decision because he’s gotten another offer, Nader will be off the roster.  And if Marcus waits until training camp, it’s unliekly that a vet that we’d be interested in would be available.

I expect that we would have to wait for a while for Smart.  He knows the team isn’t rescinding the QO, but he can wait until the October 1st deadline to sign it while negotiations continue.  Jabari Bird could be caught in the unfortunate crossfire and not get a deal from anyone, forcing him to a 2-way or Europe.

As for next offseason, the loser would probably be Terry.  If Smart is signed long-term this year and the Celtics re-sign Kyrie, Terry can probably comfortably field offers from teams not worried the Celtics will match.  If Smart is a UFA, the Celtics could let him walk if he got that big offer, and instead keep Rozier for at least one more season on his QO.
I think the C's could alternatively make a case to Rozier to sign a decent extension now. They could offer Rozier the opportunity to claim the 3rd guard slot before offering it to Marcus.

Minutes will be shrinking considerably for these two.  Neither Smart or Rozier wants to hit the market after a year playing 15 minutes a night. It might not be a bad time for all involved to make up their mind what they want going forward. We don't really know who Ainge would keep if he feels he has to pick one.

They could try, but ultimately I think Rozier wants to be a starter in his own right, whereas Marcus doesn’t seem to need that role.
That may be true. But its also possible Rozier may prefer to stay a Celtic, especially if he can be the first guard off the bench.

I still stand by the idea that it may be in everyone's interest to resolve these issues now. Neither Smart or Rozier will likely never again play as much as they did last year for this team. It will only get worse after next year unless Kyrie decides to go elsewhere.

If Rozier wants to be a starter, maybe now is the optimal time for both him and the team to make a move. If we only keep one of these guys, the minutes should be OK. If we keep both, I don't see either being happy with the result.

Realistically we have to keep Rozier until Kyrie re-signs officially. Smart and Bird are not the answer at starting PG..

Jabari Bird is in no sense a point guard.  He isn’t put on point guards to guard. He plays off the ball on offense. He is a classic 2 guard. He has outstanding length but in order to guard bigger wings he needs to get up to 210 or more.

Is Marcus Smart a point guard? Hard to say. For the last two years he has gotten nearly all his minutes with either Rozier or Irving or Thomas on the floor. That allows them to play off the ball, so that they get a break from ball handling. So he’s used as a ballhandler; but he guards wings.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: kraidstar on July 09, 2018, 09:02:10 PM
A Sherrod Blakely says the Kings are going to make an offer for Smart
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: colincb on July 09, 2018, 09:02:35 PM
Quote
A. Sherrod Blakely

Verified account
 
@ASherrodblakely
 5m5 minutes ago
More
Source: After striking out on Zach Levine, the Sacramento Kings are preparing to put together an offer #Celtics Marcus Smart.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: celticinorlando on July 09, 2018, 09:05:48 PM
If Kings offer him the deal they offered Levine, Danny better shake his hand, thank him for the service and run as fast as he can away.

Take that cash, resign Terry and add someone new to the team

Would be fine with giving Bird Smart's minutes
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: kraidstar on July 09, 2018, 09:06:12 PM
Quote
A. Sherrod Blakely

Verified account
 
@ASherrodblakely
 5m5 minutes ago
More
Source: After striking out on Zach Levine, the Sacramento Kings are preparing to put together an offer #Celtics Marcus Smart.

I hope he doesn't want to rot in Sacramento.

Hopefully he and the C's can come to a reasonable deal, maybe this will be the impetus, as he finally has some leverage.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: MattyIce on July 09, 2018, 09:10:01 PM
Quote
A. Sherrod Blakely

Verified account
 
@ASherrodblakely
 5m5 minutes ago
More
Source: After striking out on Zach Levine, the Sacramento Kings are preparing to put together an offer #Celtics Marcus Smart.

I hope he doesn't want to rot in Sacramento.

Hopefully he and the C's can come to a reasonable deal, maybe this will be the impetus, as he finally has some leverage.

during the year i said to Smart "hey i'm hearing that the Kings are going to put out a big # to get you in restricted free agency"  (because i did indeed hear that)...and his response was "I hope not"...regardless I wish him the best but I sure hope he stays!

true story
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on July 09, 2018, 09:11:24 PM
are you referring to the 4 years $80 million offer? i really doubt they will offer that to smart. but they may offer something in the $14/year range. sacramento is not well run.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 09, 2018, 09:13:00 PM
Quote
A Sherrod Blakely says the Kings are going to make an offer for Smart

Then he can hurt our draft pick all year.   I don't he meshes well with Fox.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: celticinorlando on July 09, 2018, 09:13:56 PM
are you referring to the 4 years $80 million offer? i really doubt they will offer that to smart. but they may offer something in the $14/year range. sacramento is not well run.

Exactly my fear. I am not matching anything over 10 mill and giving him 10 mill a season would still be sketchy
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 09, 2018, 09:16:00 PM
are you referring to the 4 years $80 million offer? i really doubt they will offer that to smart. but they may offer something in the $14/year range. sacramento is not well run.

Exactly my fear. I am not matching anything over 10 mill and giving him 10 mill a season would still be sketchy

I imagine Danny ends up matching something around $14, but not much higher.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: PAOBoston on July 09, 2018, 09:17:01 PM
A dumb offer was inevitable after the idiotic Exum deal. I don't blame Smart. If I saw Exum get 11 mil per, I'd think I was worth at least 15 mil per too. Sacramento is dumb enough to give him that too.

The Levine deal doesn't help at all either.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: mr. dee on July 09, 2018, 09:23:24 PM
One dimensional scorers are more sought by dumb GMs than an elite defensive stopper.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Phantom255x on July 09, 2018, 09:32:01 PM
Quote
A. Sherrod Blakely
‏Verified account
 @ASherrodblakely

Source: After striking out on Zach Levine, the Sacramento Kings are preparing to put together an offer #Celtics Marcus Smart.

5:55 PM - 9 Jul 2018 from Paradise, NV

UH OH.

(Well, it is from Blakely, so it's probably wrong LOL. Hopefully it is wrong)

UPDATE: Wow my bad. I sent this via phone but the wifi went off then when it turned back on it posted a while later LOL (and others posted beforehand). Carry on!  :P
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Phantom255x on July 09, 2018, 09:36:04 PM
If the Kings offer him 14M/Year or less, I match it.

If it's 15M a year or higher, then sorry Smart, I love you and thank you for everything, but bye bye! Then I'd really prioritize re-signing Rozier going forward and also bringing back Jabari Bird for sure this season.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on July 09, 2018, 09:41:40 PM
ET should be in jail for that Trailblazer heist .

I don't see a repeat for Smart
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: nickagneta on July 09, 2018, 09:47:46 PM
If the offer is over $11 million a year I don't see Danny matching. Guys who can't shoot but are great defenders aren't worth more than that.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on July 09, 2018, 09:48:15 PM
one of ainge's trademarks is NOT over paying for role players. as much as i love smart, if the sac offer is $14 million i think ainge waves good bye.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 09, 2018, 09:57:01 PM
The thing is, I highly doubt Smart is anywhere near as impactful in a situation like Sacramento. Even with his God-awful shooting, he was still a positive on both sides of the court last year because he was surrounded by ideal pieces for his game and Brad utilized him well and allowed him to do what he does well on the floor.

There are quite a few non-shooters on that Sacramento roster, and I just don’t see how Smart really fits and thrives there, like at all.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Phantom255x on July 09, 2018, 09:58:22 PM
I'm surprised SAC would consider making Smart an offer before Jabari Parker.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 09, 2018, 10:03:21 PM
I'm surprised SAC would consider making Smart an offer before Jabari Parker.

Especially since they already have Fox, Hield, Boggy, and Mason under contract. Granted, they also have Bagley, Skal, and Giles that also play that quick 4 position, similar to Parker.

I think Parker is definitely more of a 4 than a 3, but you could get away playing him at the 3 I think. Still makes more sense than Smart, IMO.
Title: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: Chef Parish on July 09, 2018, 10:03:37 PM
He'll put in a ridiculous offer for Smart. Saw the King's interest coming as soon as Levine offer was matched.

Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: LilRip on July 09, 2018, 10:20:55 PM
Yeah, as much as I want him on the C’s, I don’t think it’d be wise to pay him $18m/yr. Isn’t that the deal Zach Lavine got?
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: Fred Roberts on July 09, 2018, 10:25:14 PM
Yikes. Could change the culture there and get way more of a leading role.

Can't hate him for getting paid.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on July 09, 2018, 10:25:17 PM
Let Vlade have him for that price.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Sophomore on July 09, 2018, 10:30:09 PM
I'm surprised SAC would consider making Smart an offer before Jabari Parker.

Sacramento is the magic 8-Ball of NBA franchises. You never know what they’re going to do, or why.

If we lose Smart I honestly think the Kings are the most likely reason. Not because it’s a great basketball move for them, but because they’re the Kings. Cap money seems to be burning a hole in their pocket right now - that offer sheet for LaVine was insane. 
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: knuckleballer on July 09, 2018, 10:31:31 PM
I'm surprised SAC would consider making Smart an offer before Jabari Parker.

Sacramento is the magic 8-Ball of NBA franchises. You never know what they’re going to do, or why.

Neither do they.  That team always makes me laugh, but I won't find it so funny if they offer Smart a huge contract.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: playdream on July 09, 2018, 10:35:53 PM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Kuberski33 on July 09, 2018, 10:37:57 PM
4 yrs $16 mill per probably gets him for Sac.  And they'd be better off paying him than LaVine.  The thing is if they don't overpay, my guess is that if the Celtics can get in the ballpark, he'd go with them and compete for a title vs getting every last possible dollar.


Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: Ogaju on July 09, 2018, 10:38:40 PM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not

Getting money for himself is winning. How are you sure staying with Cs guarantee a championship if that is all you consider to be winning?
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: A Future of Stevens on July 09, 2018, 10:39:21 PM
Smart deserves a pay day. I want him on the celtics long term, but I cant disrespect him for getting his money.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: action781 on July 09, 2018, 10:43:49 PM
Zach Lavine scored 22 points per 36 last season while coming back from injury. The Kings future pg and c are not known for their scoring. It makes sense for them to throw big money at Lavine, even if it was an overpay. You can expect an overpay offer at Smart too if they make an offer, but not quite the one they offered Lavine because Smart doesn't give them as much of what they need -- scoring.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: loco_91 on July 09, 2018, 10:45:31 PM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not

You can be all about winning when it's game time, and still make the right decision for you + your family when it comes to the $$$.

If Smart is going to the Kings, I hope they'll make him a very wealthy man.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 09, 2018, 10:50:19 PM
4 yrs $16 mill per probably gets him for Sac.  And they'd be better off paying him than LaVine.  The thing is if they don't overpay, my guess is that if the Celtics can get in the ballpark, he'd go with them and compete for a title vs getting every last possible dollar.

That ballpark means we’d probably have to let one of our starters go at some point. You can’t give a one-sided role player 15% of your cap.

If he gets $15 million, I’d sign Jamal Crawford and call it a day.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: celticinorlando on July 09, 2018, 10:54:32 PM
Smart said tonight that he has no idea what’s going on with the Celtics.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: mmmmm on July 09, 2018, 10:57:00 PM
If the Kings offer him 14M/Year or less, I match it.

If it's 15M a year or higher, then sorry Smart, I love you and thank you for everything, but bye bye! Then I'd really prioritize re-signing Rozier going forward and also bringing back Jabari Bird for sure this season.

Just keep in mind that any amount above $7.9M comes along with some extra costs that are pretty hefty.

1) That puts us in the luxury tax.   If we do nothing else to get back below the tax by the end of the year, then that starts the repeater clock.  Since we are almost certainly not going to come back down below the tax for two consecutive years in the next few seasons, we are going to get hit with the repeater penalties down the road.   Thus, you need to add on an additional cost of ~20M for the simple decision to go over the tax to sign Smart.

2) Alternatively, we can avoid going over the threshold by trading away salary.  That would mean finding some team with cap space (the number of teams with cap space is dwindling) to which we can trade a contract to without taking salary back.  This will also cost a draft pick to get them to take on the salary.  How nice of a pick would depend on the contract we expect them to take.  Losing this player (for example, Morris) plus the pick would be a cost you need to add on to the decision to go over the threshold to sign Smart.

3) At least a couple of teams (PHI, MIN) are interested in Jabari Bird and are only hesitating on making an offer sheet because right now, BOS has the room under the tax threshold to match without hesitation.   If Marcus walks to another team, we have no problem matching any offer and so likely no team will make an offer and we get to keep him on the QO/2-Way 75K deal.   If we sign Marcus to his QO of 6M, then we'll still have plenty of room to match any minimum level contract.  If, however, we use up all the space under the threshold in order to match an offer to Smart, then we would only be able to match Bird with over-the-tax dollars and another team will swoop in to make an offer sheet on Bird.   Losing Bird is not the end of the world -- he's just a 2nd round draft prospect / summer league hero at this point -- but losing him, too, would be a potential cost of going over the tax to retain Smart.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do this.  Danny and Brad may value Smart enough that they are willing to pay those additional costs on top of his salary.    But folks should be aware that paying Smart ~8M or higher means paying a lot more on top of that.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Roy H. on July 09, 2018, 11:02:46 PM
Quote
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 10 minutes ago
New: After crossing paths with Danny Ainge, Marcus Smart spoke to the Globe and the Athletic tonight. On his status with the Celtics: “That’s what I want to know. I have no clue. I can only control what I can control.”
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Kuberski33 on July 09, 2018, 11:04:06 PM
I wouldn't overpay. You can replace most of what he gives you with guys already on the roster. The one thing you can't replace are those crazy plays he seems to make late in games but I think they can overcome the absence of that with just their better talent level. 

You can also - as Roy pointed out - bring in someone else who can actually shoot.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 09, 2018, 11:15:20 PM
Quote
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 10 minutes ago
New: After crossing paths with Danny Ainge, Marcus Smart spoke to the Globe and the Athletic tonight. On his status with the Celtics: “That’s what I want to know. I have no clue. I can only control what I can control.”

Yeah, none of this makes sense. Both Danny and Brad have said all along that they want Smart back, but they're not going to go out there and simply bid against themselves.

This whole situation reeks of Walters whispering crap in Smart's ear trying to get him to go for the payday in a crappier situation, e.g. Sacramento, because he knows Boston won't overpay Smart in the territory that he wants. Dude is shady and has recently screwed other free agents out of major money.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 09, 2018, 11:26:54 PM
4 yrs $16 mill per probably gets him for Sac.  And they'd be better off paying him than LaVine.  The thing is if they don't overpay, my guess is that if the Celtics can get in the ballpark, he'd go with them and compete for a title vs getting every last possible dollar.

That ballpark means we’d probably have to let one of our starters go at some point. You can’t give a one-sided role player 15% of your cap.

If he gets $15 million, I’d sign Jamal Crawford and call it a day.

Honestly, I don’t think % I’d cap means much in a period where the Celtics are going to be significantly over it for a number of years, with or without Smart.  I’d look at it as % of payroll.  Can you give an elite role player like Smart 10-12% of your payroll?  You probably can if it’s a 3-year deal (so runs out when Tatum enter contract #2 and when Hayward’s deal ends).  Trickier if it’s for four years, but you can probably move him as an expiring at that time to someone for a not-exorbitant price, at worst.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: mmmmm on July 09, 2018, 11:30:07 PM
Quote
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 10 minutes ago
New: After crossing paths with Danny Ainge, Marcus Smart spoke to the Globe and the Athletic tonight. On his status with the Celtics: “That’s what I want to know. I have no clue. I can only control what I can control.”

Yeah, none of this makes sense. Both Danny and Brad have said all along that they want Smart back, but they're not going to go out there and simply bid against themselves.

This whole situation reeks of Walters whispering crap in Smart's ear trying to get him to go for the payday in a crappier situation, e.g. Sacramento, because he knows Boston won't overpay Smart in the territory that he wants. Dude is shady and has recently screwed other free agents out of major money.

If Sacramento is willing to pay Smart millions of dollars more per year than the Celtics, then [dang] right Walters should be advising his client to take it.   He would be a terrible agent if he advised otherwise.   

Not only is Smart facing increased competition for his minutes on this Celtics roster, but Smart has also gotten injured each year due to his aggressive style of play and there is no guarantee he'd get a pot of gold at the end of a QO rainbow.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: mmmmm on July 09, 2018, 11:31:53 PM
4 yrs $16 mill per probably gets him for Sac.  And they'd be better off paying him than LaVine.  The thing is if they don't overpay, my guess is that if the Celtics can get in the ballpark, he'd go with them and compete for a title vs getting every last possible dollar.

That ballpark means we’d probably have to let one of our starters go at some point. You can’t give a one-sided role player 15% of your cap.

If he gets $15 million, I’d sign Jamal Crawford and call it a day.

Honestly, I don’t think % I’d cap means much in a period where the Celtics are going to be significantly over it for a number of years, with or without Smart.  I’d look at it as % of payroll.  Can you give an elite role player like Smart 10-12% of your payroll?  You probably can if it’s a 3-year deal (so runs out when Tatum enter contract #2 and when Hayward’s deal ends).  Trickier if it’s for four years, but you can probably move him as an expiring at that time to someone for a not-exorbitant price, at worst.

Whether you want to call it % of cap or percentage of payroll, just make sure you add in ALL the costs of going into the tax in order to sign him.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 09, 2018, 11:45:10 PM
4 yrs $16 mill per probably gets him for Sac.  And they'd be better off paying him than LaVine.  The thing is if they don't overpay, my guess is that if the Celtics can get in the ballpark, he'd go with them and compete for a title vs getting every last possible dollar.

That ballpark means we’d probably have to let one of our starters go at some point. You can’t give a one-sided role player 15% of your cap.

If he gets $15 million, I’d sign Jamal Crawford and call it a day.

Honestly, I don’t think % I’d cap means much in a period where the Celtics are going to be significantly over it for a number of years, with or without Smart.  I’d look at it as % of payroll.  Can you give an elite role player like Smart 10-12% of your payroll?  You probably can if it’s a 3-year deal (so runs out when Tatum enter contract #2 and when Hayward’s deal ends).  Trickier if it’s for four years, but you can probably move him as an expiring at that time to someone for a not-exorbitant price, at worst.

Whether you want to call it % of cap or percentage of payroll, just make sure you add in ALL the costs of going into the tax in order to sign him.

Personally I see no reason to attribute that cost any more to Marcus than to Baynes.  The Celtics knew when they chose to re-sign Baynes that going into the luxury tax was a definite possibility, and if it comes to fruition because he gets the big offer he’s seeking and the Celtics match, presumably they were prepared for it.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: JSD on July 09, 2018, 11:49:25 PM
wrong thread
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: JSD on July 09, 2018, 11:49:38 PM
edit
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: jpotter33 on July 09, 2018, 11:52:42 PM
Quote
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 10 minutes ago
New: After crossing paths with Danny Ainge, Marcus Smart spoke to the Globe and the Athletic tonight. On his status with the Celtics: “That’s what I want to know. I have no clue. I can only control what I can control.”

Yeah, none of this makes sense. Both Danny and Brad have said all along that they want Smart back, but they're not going to go out there and simply bid against themselves.

This whole situation reeks of Walters whispering crap in Smart's ear trying to get him to go for the payday in a crappier situation, e.g. Sacramento, because he knows Boston won't overpay Smart in the territory that he wants. Dude is shady and has recently screwed other free agents out of major money.

If Sacramento is willing to pay Smart millions of dollars more per year than the Celtics, then [dang] right Walters should be advising his client to take it.   He would be a terrible agent if he advised otherwise.   

Not only is Smart facing increased competition for his minutes on this Celtics roster, but Smart has also gotten injured each year due to his aggressive style of play and there is no guarantee he'd get a pot of gold at the end of a QO rainbow.

I'm meaning that I think Walters is exaggerating Smart's market value to him purposefully because he knows that Sacramento could potentially offer an extravagant deal that Danny won't match, making Walters more money. From the sound of the remarks coming from Smart versus the other reports we hear, it also sounds like Walters is misrepresenting to Smart what is going on to breed contempt in Smart and make him more likely to go with a higher offer on another team.

Agents should be concerned about more than simply the dollar amount of the contract. Value in a contract can go far beyond simply financial considerations, and Smart clearly values being in Boston, be it familiarity/inertia, the winning environment, Brad/Danny, etc. To Smart a couple million less per year could be worth it to stay in Boston.

It just doesn't seem that Walters has Smart's overall best interests in mind. And given his recent whiffs on contracts, there's certainly motivation/precedent there for this type of sketchy/questionable advising.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: mmmmm on July 09, 2018, 11:58:12 PM
4 yrs $16 mill per probably gets him for Sac.  And they'd be better off paying him than LaVine.  The thing is if they don't overpay, my guess is that if the Celtics can get in the ballpark, he'd go with them and compete for a title vs getting every last possible dollar.

That ballpark means we’d probably have to let one of our starters go at some point. You can’t give a one-sided role player 15% of your cap.

If he gets $15 million, I’d sign Jamal Crawford and call it a day.

Honestly, I don’t think % I’d cap means much in a period where the Celtics are going to be significantly over it for a number of years, with or without Smart.  I’d look at it as % of payroll.  Can you give an elite role player like Smart 10-12% of your payroll?  You probably can if it’s a 3-year deal (so runs out when Tatum enter contract #2 and when Hayward’s deal ends).  Trickier if it’s for four years, but you can probably move him as an expiring at that time to someone for a not-exorbitant price, at worst.

Whether you want to call it % of cap or percentage of payroll, just make sure you add in ALL the costs of going into the tax in order to sign him.

Personally I see no reason to attribute that cost any more to Marcus than to Baynes.  The Celtics knew when they chose to re-sign Baynes that going into the luxury tax was a definite possibility, and if it comes to fruition because he gets the big offer he’s seeking and the Celtics match, presumably they were prepared for it.

Like it or not, Baynes is already a sunk cost.  Plus Baynes clearly came in well below market, at a very team-friendly price that didn't create any extra budget pressure.  It still left plenty of room under the threshold for Smart's AND Bird's qualifying offers.

We've been through this discussion before.  You seemed to think Baynes was the odd man out.  I disagreed.  I've said all along and I think the way things have resolved make it clear that on this current roster, if healthy, Smart is the odd man out.   Danny came to terms quickly with Baynes and has left it up to the market to determine Smart's fate.   

At this point, retaining Smart at any price above the QO they've already tendered is a decision unto itself.   And it carries a price tag.

Maybe Danny will be willing to pay that price.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Fafnir on July 09, 2018, 11:58:25 PM
Eh Jackie Mac has said Marcus is going to go for the money several time iirc. I don't think its unreasonable to think he'd prioritize the dollars on his first big contract chance without "nefarious agent" pressure.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: playdream on July 10, 2018, 12:01:36 AM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not

You can be all about winning when it's game time, and still make the right decision for you + your family when it comes to the $$$.

If Smart is going to the Kings, I hope they'll make him a very wealthy man.

Right, then Camelo is all about winning too
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: JHTruth on July 10, 2018, 12:09:24 AM
Eh Jackie Mac has said Marcus is going to go for the money several time iirc. I don't think its unreasonable to think he'd prioritize the dollars on his first big contract chance without "nefarious agent" pressure.

I'm ok either way. I've never been fan of Smarts game tbh. Give the minutes to Rozier
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: JHTruth on July 10, 2018, 12:10:13 AM
They'll make a big offer so the Cs don't match. Smart might be a goner
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: wiley on July 10, 2018, 12:23:36 AM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not

Getting money for himself is winning. How are you sure staying with Cs guarantee a championship if that is all you consider to be winning?

Yeah what you just quoted was a big time example of fan over entitlement..
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: droopdog7 on July 10, 2018, 12:28:02 AM
Eh Jackie Mac has said Marcus is going to go for the money several time iirc. I don't think its unreasonable to think he'd prioritize the dollars on his first big contract chance without "nefarious agent" pressure.
Its not just the money.  Presumably he’d get more playing time in sac too.  That’s the tough part of this.  Many fans asking smart to take less both in money and role to stay in Boston.  That’s simply too much to ask IMO.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: CelticsElite on July 10, 2018, 12:36:40 AM
At summer league: Chris Grenham
Chris Grenham
@chrisgrenham
Smart has left the seat with the group and on his way out, he dapped up Danny Ainge, both of them laughing
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: Chris22 on July 10, 2018, 12:37:41 AM
We own Sacramento's pick.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: ozgod on July 10, 2018, 12:45:02 AM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not

You can be all about winning when it's game time, and still make the right decision for you + your family when it comes to the $$$.

If Smart is going to the Kings, I hope they'll make him a very wealthy man.

Very true. Gotta look at it from all angles. Look at IT, he was all about winning, even to the cost of injuring himself and wrecking his Brinks truck (or at least half a Brinks truck) hopes. Marcus needs to do what is best for himself, this is how he makes a living after all. And while I would love to have him back, I definitely don't want us to overpay for him.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: JSD on July 10, 2018, 12:46:44 AM
Could Vlade structure this contract in a funky way, knowing the Celtics are against the wall as far as LT?
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: mr. dee on July 10, 2018, 12:55:44 AM
I don't like the idea of Smart signing with the Kings either. Not only we'd lose his impact, but Kings might move down in the draft and win more games than we're expecting.

The time Smart was drafted, Celtics made it out of the lottery. Granted, it was in the horrible eastern conference. But drafting with any lower than top 5 is bad for our pick.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: JSD on July 10, 2018, 01:13:07 AM
Celtics are going to match. They wanted to delay this inevitability a year, they were hoping Smart would just have to settle for the QO, but since their back will be again the wall, they will match.

Now that begs the question: now what? Let's say it's for $13M per, That would leave them roughly 5.5M into LT area, and then we would start moving towards repeater tax territory. Then we should start talking about salary dumping Morris.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: trickybilly on July 10, 2018, 03:35:35 AM
Here we go. Sac prepping an offer sheet according to NBC..

SURELY VLADE WONT SINK BAD CASH AGAIN!

Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Birdman on July 10, 2018, 04:26:45 AM
If they offer Lavine 4 years 78 million, they will do the same to Smart..overpaying..im saying crazy Divac offer 4 year at 15 per
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: PAOBoston on July 10, 2018, 08:04:41 AM
The C's should stay steadfast and not overpay for Smart. If Sacramento offers something ludicrous like 15 mil per, just let him go. They should believe in their player development abilities. Jabari Bird might not be the same type of player but he can be useful in his own way and has shown promise for a fraction of the cost for example.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Vermont Green on July 10, 2018, 08:20:44 AM
Hard to see that Smart is going to get a big offer from anyone.  He is probably best suited to stay with the Celtics for one year and then try again after this season.  We will be really set at guard if he comes back.

Starters:  Kyrie, Brown
Bench:     Rozier, Smart
Depth:     Wanamaker, Nader (or Bird if you like)

I also think that Hayward is going to see minutes at SG so we have tons of coverage at these positions.  Of course there will be injuries so everyone should get minutes.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Cman on July 10, 2018, 09:40:08 AM
If they offer Lavine 4 years 78 million, they will do the same to Smart..overpaying..im saying crazy Divac offer 4 year at 15 per

I doubt they'll offer the same for Smart, but I'm guessing if they make an offer it will be a big number. Here's my guess: a front-loaded 4 year $55M.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Fafnir on July 10, 2018, 09:48:53 AM
If they offer Lavine 4 years 78 million, they will do the same to Smart..overpaying..im saying crazy Divac offer 4 year at 15 per

I doubt they'll offer the same for Smart, but I'm guessing if they make an offer it will be a big number. Here's my guess: a front-loaded 4 year $55M.
Front loading it won't matter too much for the C's. Any conceivable offer will already push the C's into the luxury tax. A front loaded contract with decreasing amounts would make the contract more attractive in later years.

Now the advance cash provision would likely be in there, but that's just on Wyc's cash flow not a salary cap issue.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: KGBirdBias on July 10, 2018, 10:03:13 AM
If I were Smart, I may sign the QO and stay with C's for one more year. Ball out, get in playoffs and then show other teams what you can do. He will enter the FA market next year and pick where he wants to go...he can get paid and win.

If he takes the money and signs with the Kings, he'll be in obscurity for the next 5 years. The Kings are going nowhere in the West anytime soon.

He would be taking a chance but he has a chance to get to the Finals where the stage is much bigger and his reputation will be enhanced. However there's always IT to learn from I guess.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: timpiker on July 10, 2018, 10:22:16 AM
Most of them learned from the IT situation.  I can't wait for guys like KD to learn the hard way.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: Birdman on July 10, 2018, 11:10:22 AM
Rather see him go to Sac than any other team
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: droopdog7 on July 10, 2018, 11:15:39 AM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not
What does one have to do with the other?  He plays his heart out to win, regardless of the situation.  Getting paid does not in any way contradict that.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: Fafnir on July 10, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not
What does one have to do with the other.  He plays his heart out to win, regardless of the situation.  Getting paid does not in any way contradict that.
The idea that a player must give his all for the team but then the team can be calculating and not match an offer sheet over 2 million in salary is not a position that makes much sense to me either.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: BitterJim on July 10, 2018, 11:28:42 AM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not
What does one have to do with the other.  He plays his heart out to win, regardless of the situation.  Getting paid does not in any way contradict that.

It's very easy to say "winning over money" when it's not you that would be giving up millions of dollars
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: billysan on July 10, 2018, 03:33:01 PM
I hope Marcus Smart stays with us but why should he 'take  a haircut` and no one else does?

The bigger thing I wonder is if Vlade will promise him a starting job.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 10, 2018, 03:38:25 PM
No problem at all for him to get his money

But then don't ever mention "I'm all about winning" again cause you're not
What does one have to do with the other.  He plays his heart out to win, regardless of the situation.  Getting paid does not in any way contradict that.

It's very easy to say "winning over money" when it's not you that would be giving up millions of dollars

Agreed. If you are talking about $8M vs. $40M... gimme that money and I’ll DNP-CD or play 48 every night en route to winning the lottery, whatever you guys want.

Now if we’re taking about $160M vs. $200M... meh. Same lifestyle, you can pick what situation you like best.
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 10, 2018, 03:48:07 PM
How Blakely still has a job is beyond me.   Even the weather men are more accurate than Sherrod.   Didn't he break the story.

https://nesn.com/2018/07/nba-rumors-kings-reported-interest-in-celtics-marcus-smart-not-true/
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: CelticsElite on July 10, 2018, 03:50:07 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dhw-3U3W0AEl8mn?format=jpg)
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: celticinorlando on July 10, 2018, 03:53:36 PM
Per Globe:

New: According to a league source, Marcus Smart is seeking less than $15 million per season. He met with two teams in Vegas Monday and will meet with two more today. Beyond pleasantries, there's been no more contact with the Cs yet:
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Birdman on July 10, 2018, 03:53:41 PM
Is there a deadline for RFA to sign??
Title: Re: Vlade is a loose cannon
Post by: Birdman on July 10, 2018, 03:56:25 PM
Nobody wants to play for Sacramento so they got to overpay players to come
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 10, 2018, 04:05:26 PM
Still hoping for the QO and then we can pay him next season when we assuredly go into the tax (assuming Kyrie stays), but if we have to match a realistic offer from a team like the Kings (or full MLE from someone else), does that mean we will use the MLE? Since we would be over, why not try to add someone for the $5.3M?

Is there anyone still out there worth grabbing?

We’d have Kyrie-Smart-Rozier-Brown for wings, Hayward-Tatum-Morris-Ojeleye swings, Horford-Baynes-Theis-Williams bigs.

Don’t see who would come that’s worth it with such little playing time to go around. Depth is a great thing to have but it can also become an issue.

Other than Semi and Williams, everyone deserves 20+ mpg. Six or seven deserve 30+.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Birdman on July 10, 2018, 04:09:12 PM
Hopefully we get an extra big
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: saltlover on July 10, 2018, 04:12:14 PM
Is there a deadline for RFA to sign??

None.  Smart can be a restricted free agent for the next decade if he never signs an NBA contract between now and then.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Fafnir on July 10, 2018, 04:17:21 PM
Is there a deadline for RFA to sign??
October first is the deadline for Marcus Smart to sign the QO unless it is extended by the Celtics.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: celticinorlando on July 10, 2018, 04:18:14 PM
I am sure Danny has a plan B if Smart walks and the Celtics do not match. Might be Bird, might be a role player FA
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on July 10, 2018, 04:29:25 PM
The globe said the Smart is meeting with some teams. Things are heating up now.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 10, 2018, 04:42:14 PM
I dont know how someone passes up 40 plus million.   Look what happened to Noel.

Funny thing is that Noel's former agent is Smart's agent.   ;D
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 10, 2018, 04:44:47 PM
Quote
League source: The #Kings have no interest in #Celtics’ RFA Marcus Smart.

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1016780967690686464
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 10, 2018, 04:46:16 PM
I dont know how someone passes up 40 plus million.   Look what happened to Noel.

Funny thing is that Noel's former agent is Smart's agent.   ;D
While its clearly a CYA issue that everyone would blame others the reports I've heard is that Happy advised Nerlens to take that contract and Nerlens said no thinking he was going to get a max offer.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: Chief Macho on July 10, 2018, 04:46:57 PM
I dont know how someone passes up 40 plus million.   Look what happened to Noel.

Funny thing is that Noel's former agent is Smart's agent.   ;D

wow.  i did not know that.    he seems to have zero idea of the market.   Smart should have taken the deal last year from the Celtics.  4 for 48 seems like a fair value but Marcus thinks he's worth 14 plus.   
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: Chief on July 10, 2018, 04:59:49 PM
Quote
League source: The #Kings have no interest in #Celtics’ RFA Marcus Smart.

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1016780967690686464

Sherrod is never right about anything.
Title: Re: Smart to ESPN: "i'm worth more than $14 mill a year" Goner?[Merged topics]
Post by: More Banners on July 10, 2018, 05:01:19 PM
I dont know how someone passes up 40 plus million.   Look what happened to Noel.

Funny thing is that Noel's former agent is Smart's agent.   ;D

wow.  i did not know that.    he seems to have zero idea of the market.   Smart should have taken the deal last year from the Celtics.  4 for 48 seems like a fair value but Marcus thinks he's worth 14 plus.   

Dang. Squabbling over a petty few million.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: CelticsElite on July 10, 2018, 05:33:17 PM
Smart, according to source, would "consider" the four-year extension offer Celtics made last October, which was worth more annually than the three-year, $33 million deal just signed by Dante Exum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/murf56/status/1016792496515321856
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: manl_lui on July 10, 2018, 05:34:04 PM
Smart, according to source, would "consider" the four-year extension offer Celtics made last October, which was worth more annually than the three-year, $33 million deal just signed by Dante Exum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/murf56/status/1016792496515321856

please let this be true and get this done!
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 10, 2018, 05:57:49 PM
Smart, according to source, would "consider" the four-year extension offer Celtics made last October, which was worth more annually than the three-year, $33 million deal just signed by Dante Exum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/murf56/status/1016792496515321856
But after a year of once again showing he is incapable of being a shooter of any type, missing 28 games, 11 on a self inflicted wound, and seeing the market for Smart drying up and I doubt that offer from the beginning of last year is still on the table. My guess is Danny waits it out to see what the open market says is Smart's value.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 10, 2018, 06:03:44 PM
Smart, according to source, would "consider" the four-year extension offer Celtics made last October, which was worth more annually than the three-year, $33 million deal just signed by Dante Exum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/murf56/status/1016792496515321856
But after a year of once again showing he is incapable of being a shooter of any type, missing 28 games, 11 on a self inflicted wound, and seeing the market for Smart drying up and I doubt that offer from the beginning of last year is still on the table. My guess is Danny waits it out to see what the open market says is Smart's value.

Eh, you try to leverage him down too far and it just starts to make sense to take the 1-year QO and try again next summer as a UFA, where it's much easier to get an offer in place because your agent can come to an agreement before free agency opens. The non-tax mid-level isn't going to stop being there for him next year, so there's no reason to take an offer in that range now. Ainge was right to hold the line, but you also have to understand just how far you can reasonably take things. Hell, it's good to have him on a mid-sized deal with no no-trade clause (the real issue with the QO) just in case the price gets low enough on someone like Kawhi or Jimmy Butler mid-season.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 10, 2018, 06:05:11 PM
65 million at 5 yrs. would start at $10,743,802 with max raises
60 million at 5 yrs. $9,917,355
55 million at 5 yrs. $9,090,909
50 million at 5 yrs. $8,264,463

52 million at 4 yrs. $11,231,102
48 million at 4 yrs. $10,367,171
44 million at 4 yrs. $9,503,240
40 million at 4 yrs. $8,639,309

39 million at 3 yrs. $11,764,706
36 million at 3 yrs. $10,859,729
33 million at 3 yrs. $9,954,751
30 million at 3 yrs. $9,049,774
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 10, 2018, 06:05:29 PM
Smart, according to source, would "consider" the four-year extension offer Celtics made last October, which was worth more annually than the three-year, $33 million deal just signed by Dante Exum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/murf56/status/1016792496515321856
But after a year of once again showing he is incapable of being a shooter of any type, missing 28 games, 11 on a self inflicted wound, and seeing the market for Smart drying up and I doubt that offer from the beginning of last year is still on the table. My guess is Danny waits it out to see what the open market says is Smart's value.

Eh, you try to leverage him down too far and it just starts to make sense to take the 1-year QO and try again next summer as a UFA, where it's much easier to get an offer in place because your agent can come to an agreement before free agency opens. The non-tax mid-level isn't going to stop being there for him next year, so there's no reason to take an offer in that range now.
And there is no reason to bid against yourself and overpay for a role playing bench player.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 10, 2018, 06:08:00 PM
Smart, according to source, would "consider" the four-year extension offer Celtics made last October, which was worth more annually than the three-year, $33 million deal just signed by Dante Exum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/murf56/status/1016792496515321856
But after a year of once again showing he is incapable of being a shooter of any type, missing 28 games, 11 on a self inflicted wound, and seeing the market for Smart drying up and I doubt that offer from the beginning of last year is still on the table. My guess is Danny waits it out to see what the open market says is Smart's value.

Eh, you try to leverage him down too far and it just starts to make sense to take the 1-year QO and try again next summer as a UFA, where it's much easier to get an offer in place because your agent can come to an agreement before free agency opens. The non-tax mid-level isn't going to stop being there for him next year, so there's no reason to take an offer in that range now.
And there is no reason to bid against yourself and overpay for a role playing bench player.

Well, if he winds up spending the season with a no-trade clause and then walks for nothing next summer I'm sure the organization will be happy to pat themselves on the back about not bidding against themselves, but again - there's a level where it just stops making sense for Smart to sign anything other than the QO.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Scintan on July 10, 2018, 06:12:36 PM
Smart, according to source, would "consider" the four-year extension offer Celtics made last October, which was worth more annually than the three-year, $33 million deal just signed by Dante Exum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/murf56/status/1016792496515321856

Assuming the report is true, it's really nice of him to "consider" what he was too good for last year and up until about 2 days ago.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Birdman on July 10, 2018, 06:19:16 PM
Saw on Sporting News that 4 teams has interest in Smart..wonder who they are
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 10, 2018, 06:20:58 PM
Smart, according to source, would "consider" the four-year extension offer Celtics made last October, which was worth more annually than the three-year, $33 million deal just signed by Dante Exum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/murf56/status/1016792496515321856
But after a year of once again showing he is incapable of being a shooter of any type, missing 28 games, 11 on a self inflicted wound, and seeing the market for Smart drying up and I doubt that offer from the beginning of last year is still on the table. My guess is Danny waits it out to see what the open market says is Smart's value.

Eh, you try to leverage him down too far and it just starts to make sense to take the 1-year QO and try again next summer as a UFA, where it's much easier to get an offer in place because your agent can come to an agreement before free agency opens. The non-tax mid-level isn't going to stop being there for him next year, so there's no reason to take an offer in that range now.
And there is no reason to bid against yourself and overpay for a role playing bench player.

Well, if he winds up spending the season with a no-trade clause and then walks for nothing next summer I'm sure the organization will be happy to pat themselves on the back about not bidding against themselves, but again - there's a level where it just stops making sense for Smart to sign anything other than the QO.
Then he walks for nothing. Marcus Smart not being on this team isn't going to be the deciding factor of whether we win future championships or not. I think a ton of fans here are doing the same thing Smart is, overvaluing his importance to this team.

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Phantom255x on July 10, 2018, 06:21:07 PM
Smart, according to source, would "consider" the four-year extension offer Celtics made last October, which was worth more annually than the three-year, $33 million deal just signed by Dante Exum.
https://mobile.twitter.com/murf56/status/1016792496515321856
But after a year of once again showing he is incapable of being a shooter of any type, missing 28 games, 11 on a self inflicted wound, and seeing the market for Smart drying up and I doubt that offer from the beginning of last year is still on the table. My guess is Danny waits it out to see what the open market says is Smart's value.

I'd much rather we offer him something like 3/33M or 4/44M and get it done.

Also, it would help to have a mid-sized contract like Smart's to help facilitate a trade in the future (using salary), and honestly if we bring back Smart on a QO, I think it's for sure he's gone the year after. 10-12M/Year for someone like Smart in today's NBA is ideal.

I believe we could do that and still stay under the tax as long as we make small moves involving Nader and such.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 10, 2018, 06:26:02 PM
One thing I don't understand about this board....IT, who at the time was averaging 29 PPG and was an MVP candidate and All-NBA worthy, had a large section if the site kinda turn on him because he asked for a Brink's truck and max money but Smart turns down a very fair deal, and the day after they get eliminated says he wants more than $14 million and no one is bothered by this. I personally had no problem with either player asking for big bucks, way more than they were worth, but why did so many turn on IT for asking for the big bucks but not Smart?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Birdman on July 10, 2018, 06:32:45 PM
I dont blame any player trying get more money...but got to look in future..got brown & tatum later on to sign..already have hayward &  horford to big deals..plus Irving be a FA..so giving smart and/or thomas big money wouldnt be or been "smart"
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Phantom255x on July 10, 2018, 06:36:57 PM
QUESTION: Say, Smart signs the QO, and then in a year becomes UFA. We don't have his Bird Rights then, right? Then shouldn't we try to ink him to a 3-4 year deal of sorts at 10-12M/Year?? Or are folks actually fine just letting him walk in a year. Another factor is, having Smart at a 10-12M/Year salary could help facilitate a future trade (as salary filler), which is something we've found difficult to do when making Kawhi trade ideas and such LOL (You got a big gap between Tatum at 6.5M and Kyrie at around 19M).

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on July 10, 2018, 06:39:07 PM
QUESTION: Say, Smart signs the QO, and then in a year becomes UFA. We don't have his Bird Rights then, right? Then shouldn't we try to ink him to a 3-4 year deal of sorts at 10-12M/Year?? Or are folks actually fine just letting him walk in a year. Another factor is, having Smart at a 10-12M/Year salary could help facilitate a future trade (as salary filler), which is something we've found difficult to do when making Kawhi trade ideas and such LOL (You got a big gap between Tatum at 6.5M and Kyrie at around 19M).

We’d have his Bird rights.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 10, 2018, 06:40:56 PM
Then he walks for nothing. Marcus Smart not being on this team isn't going to be the deciding factor of whether we win future championships or not. I think a ton of fans here are doing the same thing Smart is, overvaluing his importance to this team.

Well, I mean, sure - if the position you're operating from is that Smart doesn't matter, then just sit tight on the QO and he'll be gone soon enough. That doesn't appear to jive with the organization's approach over the last several season though. I'd be very surprised if they didn't at least want a mid-sized contract available for trade-building purposes, though, because those 4/5-for-1s you otherwise have to build are borderline untenable come mid-season.


Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Phantom255x on July 10, 2018, 06:47:54 PM
QUESTION: Say, Smart signs the QO, and then in a year becomes UFA. We don't have his Bird Rights then, right? Then shouldn't we try to ink him to a 3-4 year deal of sorts at 10-12M/Year?? Or are folks actually fine just letting him walk in a year. Another factor is, having Smart at a 10-12M/Year salary could help facilitate a future trade (as salary filler), which is something we've found difficult to do when making Kawhi trade ideas and such LOL (You got a big gap between Tatum at 6.5M and Kyrie at around 19M).

We’d have his Bird rights.

Oh, I thought we'd lose them LOL. That changes everything  :P

Still hope we could get it done soon (a multi-year deal). By next year, there will be a lot more teams with cap space. Also, if we hope to make a trade in-season (not Davis due to Rose Rule, but someone else) or next summer for a star (Anthony Davis dream next summer!), having Smart at a 10-12M/Year price would help significantly in facilitating a deal.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 10, 2018, 06:59:18 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?




Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 10, 2018, 07:21:35 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Yea, people forget that Smart's actually good in a way that's additive with the team's best players. Smart playing out the season on the QO isn't Boston "winning" the negotiation, it's both sides losing.
Title: Re: Any Marcus Smart rumors?
Post by: JHTruth on July 10, 2018, 07:24:43 PM
The globe said the Smart is meeting with some teams. Things are heating up now.

He was meeting with the Nets apparently yesterday.

Just ready to get this over with either way.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: knuckleballer on July 10, 2018, 07:39:45 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Great post.  TP
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: KungPoweChicken on July 10, 2018, 07:45:13 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Great post.  TP


I don't understand this stat. Five guys are on the floor. How can there be a rating for a "3 man unit"?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 10, 2018, 07:47:26 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Yea, people forget that Smart's actually good in a way that's additive with the team's best players. Smart playing out the season on the QO isn't Boston "winning" the negotiation, it's both sides losing.
In 2017 season Smart/Isaiah put up an amazing 114.5 offensive rating in 1320 minutes.  Thomas/Horford/Smart 117.4 in 727 minutes. 

When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score.  He is then forced into a much to large of a role.  That shouldn't be a problem going forward with Hayward, Horford, Irving, Tatum, Brown and possibly Morris, Wanamaker etc..  Even Baynes might not be a drag on the offense anymore if the C's can park him in the corner and bang down 3 balls.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: knuckleballer on July 10, 2018, 07:50:15 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Great post.  TP


I don't understand this stat. Five guys are on the floor. How can there be a rating for a "3 man unit"?

I assume it's when those three guys are on the floor at the same time regardless of the other two.  I haven't seen that stat before, but between that and the two man unit, I think it would be a decent way of looking at how effective players are.  Smart obviously has a very positive effect on the offense despite his ugly numbers.

It seems to me that once or twice a game Smart will take such a stupid shot that it frustrates everyone and that's what we remember.  Outside of a couple occurrences a game, he's a very smart decision maker.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: More Banners on July 10, 2018, 07:52:37 PM
As much as it sucks for Smart, to me he's going to be a victim of Danny's draft success. Rozier started in the playoffs; he can be 3rd guard. I mean, seriously, is there any doubt in that at this point?  I don't think so. Would he beat out Smart for minutes?  Doesn't matter.  The position is covered.

So at this point, with the state of the roster, seeing him move on for good money a la BBD would be fine with me.  Wouldn't be a waste of an asset. His loss turns into salary for, like, the starting 5.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 10, 2018, 07:55:59 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Great post.  TP


I don't understand this stat. Five guys are on the floor. How can there be a rating for a "3 man unit"?

I assume it's when those three guys are on the floor at the same time regardless of the other two.  I haven't seen that stat before, but between that and the two man unit, I think it would be a decent way of looking at how effective players are.  Smart obviously has a very positive effect on the offense despite his ugly numbers.
Yes a 3 man unit doesn't care who the other players are on the floor with them, it is considering all 5 man lineups that contain said 3 players. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 10, 2018, 07:58:07 PM
As much as it sucks for Smart, to me he's going to be a victim of Danny's draft success. Rozier started in the playoffs; he can be 3rd guard. I mean, seriously, is there any doubt in that at this point?  I don't think so. Would he beat out Smart for minutes?  Doesn't matter.  The position is covered.

The problem is that Rozier can't really guard forwards, in particular the bigger ones. That's going to matter against Golden State if Boston's serious about trying to take a title off them at some point over the next few years. Terry's just going to get hunted on defense.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: pokeKingCurtis on July 10, 2018, 07:58:26 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Yea, people forget that Smart's actually good in a way that's additive with the team's best players. Smart playing out the season on the QO isn't Boston "winning" the negotiation, it's both sides losing.
In 2017 season Smart/Isaiah put up an amazing 114.5 offensive rating in 1320 minutes.  Thomas/Horford/Smart 117.4 in 727 minutes. 

When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score.  He is then forced into a much to large of a role.  That shouldn't be a problem going forward with Hayward, Horford, Irving, Tatum, Brown and possibly Morris, Wanamaker etc..  Even Baynes might not be a drag on the offense anymore if the C's can park him in the corner and bang down 3 balls.

"Garbage weapons". Haha.

This is the argument for Smart. There will always be a Hayward, an Irving, a Horford or a Tatum on the floor. Smart hounding the opponent on defense could be extremely valuable alongside our offensive talent, whereas Rozier might end up providing diminishing returns
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 10, 2018, 08:00:13 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Yea, people forget that Smart's actually good in a way that's additive with the team's best players. Smart playing out the season on the QO isn't Boston "winning" the negotiation, it's both sides losing.
In 2017 season Smart/Isaiah put up an amazing 114.5 offensive rating in 1320 minutes.  Thomas/Horford/Smart 117.4 in 727 minutes. 

When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score. 
He is then forced into a much to large of a role.  That shouldn't be a problem going forward with Hayward, Horford, Irving, Tatum, Brown and possibly Morris, Wanamaker etc..  Even Baynes might not be a drag on the offense anymore if the C's can park him in the corner and bang down 3 balls.
This kind of tells me that Smart is making no difference whatsoever, offensively.

When with good offensive players his off. ratings are good but when with bad offensive pkayers his off. rating is bad.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on July 10, 2018, 08:08:47 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Yea, people forget that Smart's actually good in a way that's additive with the team's best players. Smart playing out the season on the QO isn't Boston "winning" the negotiation, it's both sides losing.
In 2017 season Smart/Isaiah put up an amazing 114.5 offensive rating in 1320 minutes.  Thomas/Horford/Smart 117.4 in 727 minutes. 

When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score. 
He is then forced into a much to large of a role.  That shouldn't be a problem going forward with Hayward, Horford, Irving, Tatum, Brown and possibly Morris, Wanamaker etc..  Even Baynes might not be a drag on the offense anymore if the C's can park him in the corner and bang down 3 balls.
This kind of tells me that Smart is making no difference whatsoever, offensively.

When with good offensive players his off. ratings are good but when with bad offensive pkayers his off. rating is bad.

Where do you see the evidence for that?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 10, 2018, 08:15:34 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Yea, people forget that Smart's actually good in a way that's additive with the team's best players. Smart playing out the season on the QO isn't Boston "winning" the negotiation, it's both sides losing.
In 2017 season Smart/Isaiah put up an amazing 114.5 offensive rating in 1320 minutes.  Thomas/Horford/Smart 117.4 in 727 minutes. 

When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score. 
He is then forced into a much to large of a role.  That shouldn't be a problem going forward with Hayward, Horford, Irving, Tatum, Brown and possibly Morris, Wanamaker etc..  Even Baynes might not be a drag on the offense anymore if the C's can park him in the corner and bang down 3 balls.
This kind of tells me that Smart is making no difference whatsoever, offensively.

When with good offensive players his off. ratings are good but when with bad offensive pkayers his off. rating is bad.

Where do you see the evidence for that?
There is none, he is misreading the data.  When you have 3 or 4 good offensive players on the floor the team is better when Smart is also part of the 5 man unit rather than a different player.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 10, 2018, 08:22:13 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Yea, people forget that Smart's actually good in a way that's additive with the team's best players. Smart playing out the season on the QO isn't Boston "winning" the negotiation, it's both sides losing.
In 2017 season Smart/Isaiah put up an amazing 114.5 offensive rating in 1320 minutes.  Thomas/Horford/Smart 117.4 in 727 minutes. 

When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score. 
He is then forced into a much to large of a role.  That shouldn't be a problem going forward with Hayward, Horford, Irving, Tatum, Brown and possibly Morris, Wanamaker etc..  Even Baynes might not be a drag on the offense anymore if the C's can park him in the corner and bang down 3 balls.
This kind of tells me that Smart is making no difference whatsoever, offensively.

When with good offensive players his off. ratings are good but when with bad offensive pkayers his off. rating is bad.

Where do you see the evidence for that?
There is none, he is misreading the data.  When you have 3 or 4 good offensive players on the floor the team is better when Smart is also part of the 5 man unit rather than a different player.
You said it not me.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: pokeKingCurtis on July 10, 2018, 08:23:23 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Yea, people forget that Smart's actually good in a way that's additive with the team's best players. Smart playing out the season on the QO isn't Boston "winning" the negotiation, it's both sides losing.
In 2017 season Smart/Isaiah put up an amazing 114.5 offensive rating in 1320 minutes.  Thomas/Horford/Smart 117.4 in 727 minutes. 

When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score. 
He is then forced into a much to large of a role.  That shouldn't be a problem going forward with Hayward, Horford, Irving, Tatum, Brown and possibly Morris, Wanamaker etc..  Even Baynes might not be a drag on the offense anymore if the C's can park him in the corner and bang down 3 balls.
This kind of tells me that Smart is making no difference whatsoever, offensively.

When with good offensive players his off. ratings are good but when with bad offensive pkayers his off. rating is bad.

Where do you see the evidence for that?
There is none, he is misreading the data.  When you have 3 or 4 good offensive players on the floor the team is better when Smart is also part of the 5 man unit rather than a different player.

Makes sense. He spaces the floor by shooting aggressively. He creates additional offensive possessions through defensive plays and offensive rebounds. He creates fast break opportunities. He can make plays on the ball.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: feckless on July 10, 2018, 08:24:23 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

So when Marcus goes 1 - 10 fg and 0 - 4 from the 3 it's a good thing?

Does it help this statistic when he has 5 or 6 turnovers?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: knuckleballer on July 10, 2018, 08:31:21 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

Yea, people forget that Smart's actually good in a way that's additive with the team's best players. Smart playing out the season on the QO isn't Boston "winning" the negotiation, it's both sides losing.
In 2017 season Smart/Isaiah put up an amazing 114.5 offensive rating in 1320 minutes.  Thomas/Horford/Smart 117.4 in 727 minutes. 

When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score. 
He is then forced into a much to large of a role.  That shouldn't be a problem going forward with Hayward, Horford, Irving, Tatum, Brown and possibly Morris, Wanamaker etc..  Even Baynes might not be a drag on the offense anymore if the C's can park him in the corner and bang down 3 balls.
This kind of tells me that Smart is making no difference whatsoever, offensively.

When with good offensive players his off. ratings are good but when with bad offensive pkayers his off. rating is bad.

Where do you see the evidence for that?
There is none, he is misreading the data.  When you have 3 or 4 good offensive players on the floor the team is better when Smart is also part of the 5 man unit rather than a different player.
You said it not me.

He may play poorly when surrounded by bad offensive players, but fortunately he's playing with Irving, Hayward, Tatum, Horford, and Brown.  That's why he didn't make sense for the Kings, but is valuable for the Celtics.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 10, 2018, 08:35:26 PM
You said it not me.

No, you're the one who said it, because the data doesn't mean what you think it means.

Makes sense. He spaces the floor by shooting aggressively. He creates additional offensive possessions through defensive plays and offensive rebounds. He creates fast break opportunities. He can make plays on the ball.


Generally speaking, Marcus' strengths play to the kind of things that guys like Irving, Hayward, and (near future) Tatum need out of their teammates. Smart taking on the most difficult defensive assignments allows them to save energy for offense and Smart acting as a primary initiator and talented passer allows them to focus on getting the ball in their most effective spots/situations. Sure, it'd be better if he were a better shooter, but his skills mesh well in lineups with star-level scorers.


Conversely, one of the better things that Rozier does is his ability to create off the dribble and score the ball. The problem is that if he's sharing the court with Kyrie, Hayward, and Tatum you don't actually want Terry trying to be a primary scorer, and he's more of a defensive liability on the other end (not that he's bad, just that Smart's outstanding). It makes Rozier a better option for trying to carry a lineup of bench palyers and defensive specialists, but Smart's a better option for trying to hang with Golden State's starters.


So when Marcus goes 1 - 10 fg and 0 - 4 from the 3 it's a good thing?

Does it help this statistic when he has 5 or 6 turnovers?


"The best Celtics lineups generally feature Smart" isn't really a complicated idea to grasp. It may not make certain people happy, but it's facts.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: byennie on July 10, 2018, 08:41:03 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

So when Marcus goes 1 - 10 fg and 0 - 4 from the 3 it's a good thing?

Does it help this statistic when he has 5 or 6 turnovers?
Well obviously he doesn't average any of that so I'm not sure what your point is. Irving can go 5-20 with 5 turnovers on a bad night, too.

The point is that Marcus can shoot 37% and all of his other skills still make your team better offensively when paired with the right guys. It could be that his defense turns into offensive opportunities, that he's a good passer, that he does stretch the floor, that he's an extra ball handler, that he makes other guys play hard/ leadership, etc, etc.

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 10, 2018, 08:56:05 PM
You said it not me.


Here is what Oracle said:

"When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score."

So yeah, he basically said when Smart plays with good offensive players his offensive rating is good and when he plays with bad offensive players his numbers are bad. So what does that tell you about Smart?

I haven't looked at the stats. I haven't verified any of the numbers Oracle posted. Just going off what he said. And I can't  help but question the actual use of 2 or 3 man offensive rating numbers if they are showing Smart having an offensive rating that much higher than his yearly 5 man unit offensive rating of 97. If Smart is so good as to have all these team leading 2 and 3 man offensive units, what the hell is he doing the rest of the time to have a yearly offensive rating of 97?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 10, 2018, 08:59:36 PM
The top two 2 man units offensively last season that played at least 200 minutes together were...

                    Off. Rat.     Minutes
Irving/Smart    111.0         861
Horford/Smart  110.7         903


The top four 3 man units offensively that played at least 200 minutes were...

                                Off. Rat.     minutes
Horford/Morris/Smart   116.6         220
Irving/Morris/Smart     116.0         223
Brown/Horford/Smart   113.8         514
Brown/Irving/Smart     113.2         505

Eight of the top nine 4 man units that played at least 100 minutes also contain Smart's name...

If Marcus Smart sucks so bad offensively why does his name appear in all of the most successful lineups???  Why do the C's 2 best offensive players (Irving and Horford) have the most success offensively when on the floor with Smart???  Maybe just maybe some of you might be missing something?

So when Marcus goes 1 - 10 fg and 0 - 4 from the 3 it's a good thing?

Does it help this statistic when he has 5 or 6 turnovers?
The Celtics in the playoffs this year turned the ball over the least of any regular rotation player when Smart was on the floor (10.8%).  The C's turned the ball over 13.3% of the time when he was not on the floor.  In the regular season the C's turned the ball over 13.9% of the time when Smart was on the floor and 14.4% when he wasn't on the floor.  When paired with better players Smart is very good with ball safety, it is when he is forced to create more when on the floor with lesser quality players that things go wrong.

Smart's shooting splits show much better the more talent that is on the floor.  During the regular season with Horford on the floor Smart had a TS% (true shooting) of 53.8%, when Horford was not on the floor Smart had a TS% of 42.6%.  The same was true in the playoffs but the numbers weren't as good.

The Celtics will have a lineup next year that will contain tons of solid offensive options, almost the entire regular rotation is somewhere between average and elite.  Smart should thrive as long as he isn't being cast in to large a role and put on the floor with the end of the bench.  In prior years the C's quality offensive options were few and far between.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 10, 2018, 09:08:55 PM
Here is what Oracle said:

"When surrounded by solid offensive weapons Smart has always prospered.  The problem is when you put him on the floor with a couple garbage weapons he and the team then begin to struggle mightily to score."

So yeah, he basically said when Smart plays with good offensive players his offensive rating is good and when he plays with bad offensive players his numbers are bad. So what does that tell you about Smart?

I haven't looked at the stats. I haven't verified any of the numbers Oracle posted. Just going off what he said. And I can't  help but question the actual use of 2 or 3 man offensive rating numbers if they are showing Smart having an offensive rating that much higher than his yearly 5 man unit offensive rating of 97. If Smart is so good as to have all these team leading 2 and 3 man offensive units, what the hell is he doing the rest of the time to have a yearly offensive rating of 97?

I can tell you haven't looked at any stats or verified anything. Smart's ORTG last season was 105.9, not 97, and was higher than the team's overall average ORTG of 105.2. His DRTG was 99.4 compared to the team's DRTG of 101.5 (lower is better for this stat). The team was both better at scoring the ball and preventing the other team from scoring the ball when Smart was on the court relative to when he was off.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 10, 2018, 09:14:32 PM
Per basketball reference...offensive rating 97

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 10, 2018, 09:26:08 PM
Per basketball reference...offensive rating 97

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html

Take it up with NBA Stats.

http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1 (http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1)

EDIT:

Building off this, BBRef's "ORtg" doesn't appear to be a statistic based on actual lineup performance, but a calculation based on the player's individual statisitcs, kind of like PER or other similar attempts at producing an all-encompassing metric:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html)

NBA Stats OFFRTG (I suppose this is my fault, calling OFFRTG ORTG) is an actual measurement of how the team did while the player was on the floor using the tracking data the NBA has at its disposal.

http://stats.nba.com/help/glossary/#offrtg (http://stats.nba.com/help/glossary/#offrtg)


This is actually a pretty neat proof of the idea that Marcus does stuff that doesn't show up in the box score, but affects winning nonetheless. Despite an individual stat line that suggests otherwise, the team is better-served on offense when Smart's out there.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 10, 2018, 09:59:11 PM
Per basketball reference...offensive rating 97

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html

Take it up with NBA Stats.

http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1 (http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1)

EDIT:

Building off this, BBRef's "ORtg" doesn't appear to be a statistic based on actual lineup performance, but a calculation based on the player's individual statisitcs, kind of like PER or other similar attempts at producing an all-encompassing metric:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html)

NBA Stats OFFRTG (I suppose this is my fault, calling OFFRTG ORTG) is an actual measurement of how the team did while the player was on the floor using the tracking data the NBA has at its disposal.

http://stats.nba.com/help/glossary/#offrtg (http://stats.nba.com/help/glossary/#offrtg)


This is actually a pretty neat proof of the idea that Marcus does stuff that doesn't show up in the box score, but affects winning nonetheless. Despite an individual stat line that suggests otherwise, the team is better-served on offense when Smart's out there.
Had no idea bbr calculated their per 100 possession ratings that way.

Wonder how 82games.com figures out their offensive ratings as they have Smart in the 109 area.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 10, 2018, 10:06:39 PM
Per basketball reference...offensive rating 97

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html

Take it up with NBA Stats.

http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1 (http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1)

EDIT:

Building off this, BBRef's "ORtg" doesn't appear to be a statistic based on actual lineup performance, but a calculation based on the player's individual statisitcs, kind of like PER or other similar attempts at producing an all-encompassing metric:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html)

NBA Stats OFFRTG (I suppose this is my fault, calling OFFRTG ORTG) is an actual measurement of how the team did while the player was on the floor using the tracking data the NBA has at its disposal.

http://stats.nba.com/help/glossary/#offrtg (http://stats.nba.com/help/glossary/#offrtg)


This is actually a pretty neat proof of the idea that Marcus does stuff that doesn't show up in the box score, but affects winning nonetheless. Despite an individual stat line that suggests otherwise, the team is better-served on offense when Smart's out there.
Had no idea bbr calculated their per 100 possession ratings that way.

Wonder how 82games.com figures out their offensive ratings as they have Smart in the 109 area.

Yea, I wasn't aware that those were two entirely different stats either until just now. Got confused about the wildly different numbers on the two pages and did a little digging. Surprised me.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 11, 2018, 04:48:34 AM
Per basketball reference...offensive rating 97

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smartma01.html

Take it up with NBA Stats.

http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1 (http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1)

EDIT:

Building off this, BBRef's "ORtg" doesn't appear to be a statistic based on actual lineup performance, but a calculation based on the player's individual statisitcs, kind of like PER or other similar attempts at producing an all-encompassing metric:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html)

NBA Stats OFFRTG (I suppose this is my fault, calling OFFRTG ORTG) is an actual measurement of how the team did while the player was on the floor using the tracking data the NBA has at its disposal.

http://stats.nba.com/help/glossary/#offrtg (http://stats.nba.com/help/glossary/#offrtg)


This is actually a pretty neat proof of the idea that Marcus does stuff that doesn't show up in the box score, but affects winning nonetheless. Despite an individual stat line that suggests otherwise, the team is better-served on offense when Smart's out there.
Had no idea bbr calculated their per 100 possession ratings that way.

Wonder how 82games.com figures out their offensive ratings as they have Smart in the 109 area.

Yea, I wasn't aware that those were two entirely different stats either until just now. Got confused about the wildly different numbers on the two pages and did a little digging. Surprised me.
Over the last few years I have made multiple posts in regard to the numerous fraudulent metrics that can be found on BBREF.  They are all trash and tend to ruin good basketball discussion as everyone has a different pet metric to quote.  It is impossible to write a comprehensive formula that remotely accurately captures a players true value using box score statistics, there is simply far more to the game than that.  Not to mention that the logic used to construct the formulas behind these metrics has a million holes in it.

As to the Offensive Rating metric specifically found on BBREF, it is a metric that is designed to try and capture a players individual value using his own box score statistics.  The results are laughable unless you agree with the notion that unskilled big men that score on lobs, junk buckets and offensive rebounds are among the best offensive players in the league.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: pokeKingCurtis on July 11, 2018, 06:29:58 AM
I mean, if you could get DeAndre Jordan dunk every possession, or a putback, you're doing well.

Or alternatively a 3, simply because it's 1 more than 2.

That's practically the Rockets, right? They were a Chris Paul injury away from the Warriors, too.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Vermont Green on July 11, 2018, 08:38:14 AM
65 million at 5 yrs. would start at $10,743,802 with max raises
60 million at 5 yrs. $9,917,355
55 million at 5 yrs. $9,090,909
50 million at 5 yrs. $8,264,463

52 million at 4 yrs. $11,231,102
48 million at 4 yrs. $10,367,171
44 million at 4 yrs. $9,503,240
40 million at 4 yrs. $8,639,309

39 million at 3 yrs. $11,764,706
36 million at 3 yrs. $10,859,729
33 million at 3 yrs. $9,954,751
30 million at 3 yrs. $9,049,774

Need to get that first year down around $8M or we go over the tax line.  I don't think the Celtics will or should go over  the tax this year for Smart.  4 years for about $38M, starting at $8M.  Even offer an opt out after two seasons potentially.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on July 11, 2018, 08:42:39 AM
65 million at 5 yrs. would start at $10,743,802 with max raises
60 million at 5 yrs. $9,917,355
55 million at 5 yrs. $9,090,909
50 million at 5 yrs. $8,264,463

52 million at 4 yrs. $11,231,102
48 million at 4 yrs. $10,367,171
44 million at 4 yrs. $9,503,240
40 million at 4 yrs. $8,639,309

39 million at 3 yrs. $11,764,706
36 million at 3 yrs. $10,859,729
33 million at 3 yrs. $9,954,751
30 million at 3 yrs. $9,049,774

Need to get that first year down around $8M or we go over the tax line.  I don't think the Celtics will or should go over  the tax this year for Smart.  4 years for about $38M, starting at $8M.  Even offer an opt out after two seasons potentially.

That’s the ideal, but we can free up more money by waiving Nader or dumping Yabu on a team with cap room.  I think we’d need to get over $10 million AAV for Smart to even consider a deal.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Vermont Green on July 11, 2018, 08:54:24 AM
65 million at 5 yrs. would start at $10,743,802 with max raises
60 million at 5 yrs. $9,917,355
55 million at 5 yrs. $9,090,909
50 million at 5 yrs. $8,264,463

52 million at 4 yrs. $11,231,102
48 million at 4 yrs. $10,367,171
44 million at 4 yrs. $9,503,240
40 million at 4 yrs. $8,639,309

39 million at 3 yrs. $11,764,706
36 million at 3 yrs. $10,859,729
33 million at 3 yrs. $9,954,751
30 million at 3 yrs. $9,049,774

Need to get that first year down around $8M or we go over the tax line.  I don't think the Celtics will or should go over  the tax this year for Smart.  4 years for about $38M, starting at $8M.  Even offer an opt out after two seasons potentially.

That’s the ideal, but we can free up more money by waiving Nader or dumping Yabu on a team with cap room.  I think we’d need to get over $10 million AAV for Smart to even consider a deal.

4 years for about $38M, starting at $8M with an opt out is still a better deal than just the QO.  He is protected against injury and has an opportunity to reenter the market at a more favorable time (assuming he stays healthy and plays well).  Now if someone else offers him more, so be it, he should take the offer and go play somewhere else with no hard feelings.  I like Smart and hope we keep him at the right price but I don't see it as the end of the world if we are not able to.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: footey on July 11, 2018, 08:54:46 AM
If it’s true that Smart rejected 12 per for 4 years last season, would be hard to imagine him accepting less than that now. If his agent advised him to reject that initial offer, he has a lot on the line as well.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Moranis on July 11, 2018, 09:07:57 AM
If it’s true that Smart rejected 12 per for 4 years last season, would be hard to imagine him accepting less than that now. If his agent advised him to reject that initial offer, he has a lot on the line as well.
Noel reportedly rejected a 17.5 million a year contract and what did he sign for this summer.  Sometimes money that was once on the table is no longer there. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Csfan1984 on July 11, 2018, 10:37:18 AM
If it’s true that Smart rejected 12 per for 4 years last season, would be hard to imagine him accepting less than that now. If his agent advised him to reject that initial offer, he has a lot on the line as well.
Noel reportedly rejected a 17.5 million a year contract and what did he sign for this summer.  Sometimes money that was once on the table is no longer there.
Especially if a player doesn't improve much. Early money is based on potential.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: TheSundanceKid on July 11, 2018, 11:39:16 AM
65 million at 5 yrs. would start at $10,743,802 with max raises
60 million at 5 yrs. $9,917,355
55 million at 5 yrs. $9,090,909
50 million at 5 yrs. $8,264,463

52 million at 4 yrs. $11,231,102
48 million at 4 yrs. $10,367,171
44 million at 4 yrs. $9,503,240
40 million at 4 yrs. $8,639,309

39 million at 3 yrs. $11,764,706
36 million at 3 yrs. $10,859,729
33 million at 3 yrs. $9,954,751
30 million at 3 yrs. $9,049,774

Need to get that first year down around $8M or we go over the tax line.  I don't think the Celtics will or should go over  the tax this year for Smart.  4 years for about $38M, starting at $8M.  Even offer an opt out after two seasons potentially.

That’s the ideal, but we can free up more money by waiving Nader or dumping Yabu on a team with cap room.  I think we’d need to get over $10 million AAV for Smart to even consider a deal.

4 years for about $38M, starting at $8M with an opt out is still a better deal than just the QO.  He is protected against injury and has an opportunity to reenter the market at a more favorable time (assuming he stays healthy and plays well).  Now if someone else offers him more, so be it, he should take the offer and go play somewhere else with no hard feelings.  I like Smart and hope we keep him at the right price but I don't see it as the end of the world if we are not able to.

Is it? Everyone likes to bring up the Noel example but that was a silly contract to offer him in the first instance, he was never worth that.

There are as many examples of players locking in at a low rate and becoming discontent when they exceed that production. That's part of the business.

The league is going to be flush with cash next year, lots of teams will line up for the stars and when they get disappointed some will overpay on role players. If I was Smart then I would bank on that, take the QO and see if I can nail down the 3 in that time.

Ultimately I think the only ways Smart is back is the QO or if we give him the $12m he wants and we limit the deal to 3 years. Then if we want to remain under the tax, which I believe we do, we would trade Morris to a team with cap space or an exception.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Vermont Green on July 11, 2018, 12:55:26 PM
4 years for about $38M, starting at $8M with an opt out is still a better deal than just the QO.  He is protected against injury and has an opportunity to reenter the market at a more favorable time (assuming he stays healthy and plays well).  Now if someone else offers him more, so be it, he should take the offer and go play somewhere else with no hard feelings.  I like Smart and hope we keep him at the right price but I don't see it as the end of the world if we are not able to.

Is it? Everyone likes to bring up the Noel example but that was a silly contract to offer him in the first instance, he was never worth that.

There are as many examples of players locking in at a low rate and becoming discontent when they exceed that production. That's part of the business.

The league is going to be flush with cash next year, lots of teams will line up for the stars and when they get disappointed some will overpay on role players. If I was Smart then I would bank on that, take the QO and see if I can nail down the 3 in that time.

Ultimately I think the only ways Smart is back is the QO or if we give him the $12m he wants and we limit the deal to 3 years. Then if we want to remain under the tax, which I believe we do, we would trade Morris to a team with cap space or an exception.

I think so.  If he plays well and is healthy, he can still opt out in the prime of his career and go for a big contract.  If he gets hurt, he has the insurance policy of the full 4 years.

He may roll the dice and take the 1 year QO.  If he decides to do that, good for him.  I wouldn't do that.  Rondo could have extended also but didn't and ended up with a lot less money.  You never know how things will work out.  There are both good and bad examples of any choice.  Marcus will probably be fine either way.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 11, 2018, 01:01:19 PM
I can't help but wonder if a 4 year deal is even still on the table from the Celtics. Ainge is obviously waiting for some other team to offer that 4 year deal to Smart to decide to match or not, but I wonder if because of the lack of interest and no one offering a 4 year deal to Smart if a 4 year deal is off the table right now.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Evantime34 on July 11, 2018, 01:13:11 PM
I can't help but wonder if a 4 year deal is even still on the table from the Celtics. Ainge is obviously waiting for some other team to offer that 4 year deal to Smart to decide to match or not, but I wonder if because of the lack of interest and no one offering a 4 year deal to Smart if a 4 year deal is off the table right now.
This wouldn't surprise me. I'm sure Boston's preference is that he comes back at the QO so they can stay under the tax.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: MattyIce on July 11, 2018, 04:24:16 PM
I think Nets are trying to free up cap space to make a offer on Smart.  We need to get something done before they have a chance right?

https://twitter.com/Mitch_Lawrence/status/1017135849702658048

Oklahoma City looking to get something for Carmelo Anthony and talking to Brooklyn about a deal, with Jeremy Lin potentially going to OKC, per sources. Nets looking to get pick(s). Want to move Lin and would buy out Melo.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 11, 2018, 04:35:15 PM
I think Nets are trying to free up cap space to make a offer on Smart.  We need to get something done before they have a chance right?

https://twitter.com/Mitch_Lawrence/status/1017135849702658048

Oklahoma City looking to get something for Carmelo Anthony and talking to Brooklyn about a deal, with Jeremy Lin potentially going to OKC, per sources. Nets looking to get pick(s). Want to move Lin and would buy out Melo.
The Nets are trying to get future draft picks. You don't try to open up cap space by trading for a $28 million a year player and releasing him or buying him out. If the Nets were looking to free up space to sign a player there are easier ways than trading for Carmelo Anthony.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 11, 2018, 05:11:27 PM
I think Nets are trying to free up cap space to make a offer on Smart.  We need to get something done before they have a chance right?

https://twitter.com/Mitch_Lawrence/status/1017135849702658048

Oklahoma City looking to get something for Carmelo Anthony and talking to Brooklyn about a deal, with Jeremy Lin potentially going to OKC, per sources. Nets looking to get pick(s). Want to move Lin and would buy out Melo.
The Nets are trying to get future draft picks. You don't try to open up cap space by trading for a $28 million a year player and releasing him or buying him out. If the Nets were looking to free up space to sign a player there are easier ways than trading for Carmelo Anthony.

I think the idea is that they would use the stretch provision on Anthony.  If waived before Aug 31, Anthony's remaining year can be stretched across 3 years, reducing the cap hit from 27.9M down to 9.3M per year.

So, if the Nets trade Lin (12.5M) plus, say Carroll (15.4M), for Anthony plus draft picks they can

clear a roster spot
waive Anthony and clear 18.6M of space

That's just one possibility.  Not saying I have any idea whether the Nets want to do this.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on July 11, 2018, 06:38:34 PM
I think Nets are trying to free up cap space to make a offer on Smart.  We need to get something done before they have a chance right?

https://twitter.com/Mitch_Lawrence/status/1017135849702658048

Oklahoma City looking to get something for Carmelo Anthony and talking to Brooklyn about a deal, with Jeremy Lin potentially going to OKC, per sources. Nets looking to get pick(s). Want to move Lin and would buy out Melo.
The Nets are trying to get future draft picks. You don't try to open up cap space by trading for a $28 million a year player and releasing him or buying him out. If the Nets were looking to free up space to sign a player there are easier ways than trading for Carmelo Anthony.

I think the idea is that they would use the stretch provision on Anthony.  If waived before Aug 31, Anthony's remaining year can be stretched across 3 years, reducing the cap hit from 27.9M down to 9.3M per year.

So, if the Nets trade Lin (12.5M) plus, say Carroll (15.4M), for Anthony plus draft picks they can

clear a roster spot
waive Anthony and clear 18.6M of space

That's just one possibility.  Not saying I have any idea whether the Nets want to do this.

If the Nets wanted space to sign Smart, why wouldn’t they just waive and stretch Carroll on their own?  It’s extraneous to take back Carmelo, and would eat more into their future cap room.

And, why would OKC be interested in trading a $27 million contract for another $27 million in contracts?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: jmen788 on July 11, 2018, 07:53:19 PM
Maybe Brooklyn or one of these other teams can do us a favor and sign him to a 4 year deal at like 45-50 mil so we can match it.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 11, 2018, 08:02:08 PM
I think Nets are trying to free up cap space to make a offer on Smart.  We need to get something done before they have a chance right?

https://twitter.com/Mitch_Lawrence/status/1017135849702658048

Oklahoma City looking to get something for Carmelo Anthony and talking to Brooklyn about a deal, with Jeremy Lin potentially going to OKC, per sources. Nets looking to get pick(s). Want to move Lin and would buy out Melo.
The Nets are trying to get future draft picks. You don't try to open up cap space by trading for a $28 million a year player and releasing him or buying him out. If the Nets were looking to free up space to sign a player there are easier ways than trading for Carmelo Anthony.

I think the idea is that they would use the stretch provision on Anthony.  If waived before Aug 31, Anthony's remaining year can be stretched across 3 years, reducing the cap hit from 27.9M down to 9.3M per year.

So, if the Nets trade Lin (12.5M) plus, say Carroll (15.4M), for Anthony plus draft picks they can

clear a roster spot
waive Anthony and clear 18.6M of space

That's just one possibility.  Not saying I have any idea whether the Nets want to do this.

If the Nets wanted space to sign Smart, why wouldn’t they just waive and stretch Carroll on their own?  It’s extraneous to take back Carmelo, and would eat more into their future cap room.

And, why would OKC be interested in trading a $27 million contract for another $27 million in contracts?

I guess the idea for the first question would be to get picks?

As to the second, maybe they want either Lin or Carroll?   Cut/stretch one of them?  All the contracts here are expiring so commitments aren't a problem.  The only issue with keeping Lin & Carroll is that  they'd still take the tax hit.

Maybe there is a 3rd team that can take one of Lin or Carroll's contract in with cap space?   Either would be much easier to do that with than Carmelo.

Nets get:  'Melo + pick(s).   Waive/stretch Anthony.
OKC get:  Lin or Carroll
3rd team gets:  Carroll or Lin + pick(s).

The 3rd team sends a protected 2nd rounder to either Nets or OKC to make the trade legal.

No, I have not looked into each team's pick inventory to see what picks they might have to make this work.  Nor have I looked for a possible 3rd team.  I'm a nerd but my laziness is too strong to make me go that far.

I'm just trying to work out some sort of rationale here for the rumor.  Don't beat me up if it makes no sense!
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 11, 2018, 08:06:57 PM
Maybe Brooklyn or one of these other teams can do us a favor and sign him to a 4 year deal at like 45-50 mil so we can match it.
If Brooklyn or another team signs him to an offer sheet it will likely be with descending salary.  A 4 year $50M contract would likely come with a 1st year salary of $14,204,545 making it more painful for the C's to match.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: jmen788 on July 11, 2018, 08:08:20 PM
Maybe Brooklyn or one of these other teams can do us a favor and sign him to a 4 year deal at like 45-50 mil so we can match it.
If Brooklyn or another team signs him to an offer sheet it will likely be with descending salary.  A 4 year $50M contract would likely come with a 1st year salary of $14,204,545 making it more painful for the C's to match.

But we would still need to match it, no? It would be terrible for the first year but then pretty good on our books the next few years, or am I missing the bigger picture?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 11, 2018, 08:13:29 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: jmen788 on July 11, 2018, 08:17:25 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Very interesting. The logical question is, do either team have anything we want at all that they'd be willing to give up?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Dino Pitino on July 11, 2018, 08:20:10 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Link?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 11, 2018, 08:20:59 PM
Maybe Brooklyn or one of these other teams can do us a favor and sign him to a 4 year deal at like 45-50 mil so we can match it.
If Brooklyn or another team signs him to an offer sheet it will likely be with descending salary.  A 4 year $50M contract would likely come with a 1st year salary of $14,204,545 making it more painful for the C's to match.

But we would still need to match it, no? It would be terrible for the first year but then pretty good on our books the next few years, or am I missing the bigger picture?
The 1st year is the one the C's care about most because they have a chance at staying below the luxury tax line which would enable them to delay the start of repeater tax penalties down the road.  I think they would match anyway and just forget about staying out of the tax.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 11, 2018, 08:21:39 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Link?

Jordan Schultz Twitter.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 11, 2018, 08:22:58 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Very interesting. The logical question is, do either team have anything we want at all that they'd be willing to give up?

More protected future picks? I would hope Boston would find a shooter to replace smart
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: jmen788 on July 11, 2018, 08:25:19 PM
I just looked at the Nets and Grizzlies rosters and they have literally nothing worthwhile for a sign and trade unless they're giving up 1st rounders, which I'm sure they're not. Therefore let's hope we can sign him at a decent number.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 11, 2018, 08:25:38 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Very interesting. The logical question is, do either team have anything we want at all that they'd be willing to give up?
Memphis has JaMychal Green on a $7,666,667 expiring contract who the C's were definitely trying to acquire last off season.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 11, 2018, 08:28:49 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Very interesting. The logical question is, do either team have anything we want at all that they'd be willing to give up?
Memphis has JaMychal Green on a $7,666,667 expiring contract who the C's were definitely trying to acquire last off season.

This is what I thought also.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: jmen788 on July 11, 2018, 08:31:34 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Very interesting. The logical question is, do either team have anything we want at all that they'd be willing to give up?
Memphis has JaMychal Green on a $7,666,667 expiring contract who the C's were definitely trying to acquire last off season.

This is what I thought also.

Obviously getting him instead of losing Smart for nothing would be pretty darn good. Would we rather have Green or Smart at a reasonable number? We'd be playing the same games with Green next offseason too..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: jambr380 on July 11, 2018, 08:33:25 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Very interesting. The logical question is, do either team have anything we want at all that they'd be willing to give up?
Memphis has JaMychal Green on a $7,666,667 expiring contract who the C's were definitely trying to acquire last off season.

I am definitely a JaMychal fan...or at least I was during 2016-17. That salary would bring us awfully close to the tax if we also decided to keep Bird.

But with Green, we really wouldn't need Morris so I wonder if another team would be willing to take him off our hands. That would then allow us to sign IT with whatever we have left to cover the other guard spot with Rozier - voila, problem solved!  :D
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 11, 2018, 08:35:07 PM
You lose smart you can go ahead and resign terry

Would be awkward next summer having to pick between them.

Green would be decent in return.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 11, 2018, 08:56:15 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Link?

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1017199132799262720
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mef730 on July 11, 2018, 09:03:09 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Link?

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1017199132799262720

Anybody else still at that point where your first instinct when you read something like this is, "No, we can't do anything to help Brooklyn!" And then I remember...

Mike
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on July 11, 2018, 09:05:27 PM
Everyone is worried a lot about the tax when DA said today that they expect to be tax payers (was talking this season). They just don't want to overpay Smart just to keep him (my words not theirs).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Sketch5 on July 11, 2018, 09:19:38 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Link?

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1017199132799262720

Anybody else still at that point where your first instinct when you read something like this is, "No, we can't do anything to help Brooklyn!" And then I remember...

Mike

I's like to know who the other teams are. Out side Jackson Jr, the Nets and Griz don't really have much to offer.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 11, 2018, 09:45:48 PM
I think Nets are trying to free up cap space to make a offer on Smart.  We need to get something done before they have a chance right?

https://twitter.com/Mitch_Lawrence/status/1017135849702658048

Oklahoma City looking to get something for Carmelo Anthony and talking to Brooklyn about a deal, with Jeremy Lin potentially going to OKC, per sources. Nets looking to get pick(s). Want to move Lin and would buy out Melo.
The Nets are trying to get future draft picks. You don't try to open up cap space by trading for a $28 million a year player and releasing him or buying him out. If the Nets were looking to free up space to sign a player there are easier ways than trading for Carmelo Anthony.

I think the idea is that they would use the stretch provision on Anthony.  If waived before Aug 31, Anthony's remaining year can be stretched across 3 years, reducing the cap hit from 27.9M down to 9.3M per year.

So, if the Nets trade Lin (12.5M) plus, say Carroll (15.4M), for Anthony plus draft picks they can

clear a roster spot
waive Anthony and clear 18.6M of space

That's just one possibility.  Not saying I have any idea whether the Nets want to do this.

If the Nets are genuinely attempting to trade for Carmelo with the intention of immediately waiving him, it's almost certainly to clear the final year of Allen Crabbe's contract from their cap sheet and go into the 2019 Offseason Of Many Stars with almost perfectly clean books (aside from, hilariously, a $5.4m charge for Deron Williams) by eating the entire charge this season (what they did with Dwight), not in an attempt to waive and stretch Carmelo so they can offer Marcus $80 million in the next few weeks. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 11, 2018, 09:47:56 PM
I think Nets are trying to free up cap space to make a offer on Smart.  We need to get something done before they have a chance right?

https://twitter.com/Mitch_Lawrence/status/1017135849702658048

Oklahoma City looking to get something for Carmelo Anthony and talking to Brooklyn about a deal, with Jeremy Lin potentially going to OKC, per sources. Nets looking to get pick(s). Want to move Lin and would buy out Melo.
The Nets are trying to get future draft picks. You don't try to open up cap space by trading for a $28 million a year player and releasing him or buying him out. If the Nets were looking to free up space to sign a player there are easier ways than trading for Carmelo Anthony.

I think the idea is that they would use the stretch provision on Anthony.  If waived before Aug 31, Anthony's remaining year can be stretched across 3 years, reducing the cap hit from 27.9M down to 9.3M per year.

So, if the Nets trade Lin (12.5M) plus, say Carroll (15.4M), for Anthony plus draft picks they can

clear a roster spot
waive Anthony and clear 18.6M of space

That's just one possibility.  Not saying I have any idea whether the Nets want to do this.

If the Nets are genuinely attempting to trade for Carmelo with the intention of immediately waiving him, it's almost certainly to clear the final year of Allen Crabbe's contract from their cap sheet and go into the 2019 Offseason Of Many Stars with almost perfectly clean books (aside from, hilariously, a $5.4m charge for Deron Williams) by eating the entire charge this season (what they did with Dwight), not in an attempt to waive and stretch Carmelo so they can offer Marcus $80 million in the next few weeks.

Marcus Smart $80mm? Lol they can take him
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 11, 2018, 09:57:07 PM
Marcus Smart $80mm? Lol they can take him


Just, uh...…..just not gonna read the whole post, huh?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: liam on July 11, 2018, 10:51:47 PM
Source: Several teams - inc the #Grizzlies and #Nets - have inquired about a S-T w/the #Celtics for RFA Marcus Smart, who has already met with Brooklyn. Source also says that Boston has had zero communication or contact w/Smart.

Link?

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1017199132799262720

Who would we get in the sign and trade? Would it be a pick?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Eja117 on July 11, 2018, 11:04:13 PM
I'm getting the feeling the Celtics maybe know more about the Smart issue than we do.

It's almost like the hand thing bugged them more than they let on. Maybe a lot more.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 11, 2018, 11:33:24 PM
I'm getting the feeling the Celtics maybe know more about the Smart issue than we do.

It's almost like the hand thing bugged them more than they let on. Maybe a lot more.
Agree completely. Last year apparently the Cs offered 4 years at over $11 million per, Smart said no. After an injury riddled season, 11 games lost to a self-inflicted injury, and another awful offensive season, the front office isn't exactly jumping up and down to offer him an offer. It seems like they have even stepped back and removed that offer they gave him before last season.

Behind the scenes, I agree completely, the Celtics know a ton more that people don't that perhaps has soured their stance on Smart.

I have to say, having a player act so immaturely as to punch a glass picture and hurt himself in anger hours after the loss that left him out for 11 games(and luckily not more as reports are he came very close to doing much more severe damage), would make me deeply question giving such a person a long term lucrative contract.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Eja117 on July 11, 2018, 11:39:24 PM
Ever notice how under Brad anyone that gets out of line even a little ends up gone? Sully. Rondo. IT. Now Smart. And before that Ainge dealt with Big Baby, Delonte, and Ray back in the day. Even a guy or two who really improved had to get paid somewhere else. Like KO.

The Celts have kind of become a place for only 3 kinds of players....stars totally doing their jobs (like Al or Tatum). If you're a former star not doing your job you go to the Nets. Right Pierce? Another kind of player is a cheap as heck one with a lot to prove. Like Evan Turner or Shane Larkin or Theis. Another kind of player is a guy on a rookie deal.

Not a lot of role players. Baynes. Baynes is the role player at a mid level. And that's practically it.

There are no non stars that got paid and stuck around. That doesn't happen here.

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 11, 2018, 11:41:46 PM
Ever notice how under Brad anyone that gets out of line even a little ends up gone? Sully. Rondo. IT. Now Smart. And before that Ainge dealt with Big Baby, Delonte, and Ray back in the day. Even a guy or two who really improved had to get paid somewhere else. Like KO.

The Celts have kind of become a place for only 3 kinds of players....stars totally doing their jobs (like Al or Tatum). If you're a former star not doing your job you go to the Nets. Right Pierce? Another kind of player is a cheap as heck one with a lot to prove. Like Evan Turner or Shane Larkin or Theis. Another kind of player is a guy on a rookie deal.

Not a lot of role players. Baynes. Baynes is the role player at a mid level. And that's practically it.

There are no non stars that got paid and stuck around. That doesn't happen here.

What you're saying is they don't give stiffs big deals. One reason they like picks, young cheap guys who fill out a roster..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 11, 2018, 11:44:27 PM
I'm getting the feeling the Celtics maybe know more about the Smart issue than we do.

It's almost like the hand thing bugged them more than they let on. Maybe a lot more.
Agree completely. Last year apparently the Cs offered 4 years at over $11 million per, Smart said no. After an injury riddled season, 11 games lost to a self-inflicted injury, and another awful offensive season, the front office isn't exactly jumping up and down to offer him an offer. It seems like they have even stepped back and removed that offer they gave him before last season.

Behind the scenes, I agree completely, the Celtics know a ton more that people don't that perhaps has soured their stance on Smart.

I have to say, having a player act so immaturely as to punch a glass picture and hurt himself in anger hours after the loss that left him out for 11 games(and luckily not more as reports are he came very close to doing much more severe damage), would make me deeply question giving such a person a long term lucrative contract.

They're saying all the right things publicly but it seems they're ready to move on. Rosier frankly is much better and much less headache
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 12, 2018, 01:08:01 AM
I'm getting the feeling the Celtics maybe know more about the Smart issue than we do.

It's almost like the hand thing bugged them more than they let on. Maybe a lot more.
Agree completely. Last year apparently the Cs offered 4 years at over $11 million per, Smart said no. After an injury riddled season, 11 games lost to a self-inflicted injury, and another awful offensive season, the front office isn't exactly jumping up and down to offer him an offer. It seems like they have even stepped back and removed that offer they gave him before last season.

Behind the scenes, I agree completely, the Celtics know a ton more that people don't that perhaps has soured their stance on Smart.

I have to say, having a player act so immaturely as to punch a glass picture and hurt himself in anger hours after the loss that left him out for 11 games(and luckily not more as reports are he came very close to doing much more severe damage), would make me deeply question giving such a person a long term lucrative contract.

They're saying all the right things publicly but it seems they're ready to move on. Rosier frankly is much better and much less headache

I do find it strange if there is any truth to the lack of communication from the Celtics if they plan on matching.

Either the source is lying or the Celtics do not intend to match.

If it’s the latter, the Celtics should be careful because his options are running out and he may be forced to accept the QO and they may get stuck with a guy they alienated... who is playing for a contract as an UFA with a NTC. That could end poorly.

Hopefully everything works out for Smart and us, hopefully together.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: trickybilly on July 12, 2018, 01:12:34 AM
I'm getting the feeling the Celtics maybe know more about the Smart issue than we do.

It's almost like the hand thing bugged them more than they let on. Maybe a lot more.
Agree completely. Last year apparently the Cs offered 4 years at over $11 million per, Smart said no. After an injury riddled season, 11 games lost to a self-inflicted injury, and another awful offensive season, the front office isn't exactly jumping up and down to offer him an offer. It seems like they have even stepped back and removed that offer they gave him before last season.

Behind the scenes, I agree completely, the Celtics know a ton more that people don't that perhaps has soured their stance on Smart.

I have to say, having a player act so immaturely as to punch a glass picture and hurt himself in anger hours after the loss that left him out for 11 games(and luckily not more as reports are he came very close to doing much more severe damage), would make me deeply question giving such a person a long term lucrative contract.

They're saying all the right things publicly but it seems they're ready to move on. Rosier frankly is much better and much less headache

I do find it strange if there is any truth to the lack of communication from the Celtics if they plan on matching.

Either the source is lying or the Celtics do not intend to match.

If it’s the latter, the Celtics should be careful because his options are running out and he may be forced to accept the QO and they may get stuck with a guy they alienated... who is playing for a contract as an UFA with a NTC. That could end poorly.

Hopefully everything works out for Smart and us, hopefully together.

There is zero chance of that happening
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Beat LA on July 12, 2018, 01:25:46 AM
Ever notice how under Brad anyone that gets out of line even a little ends up gone? Sully. Rondo. IT. Now Smart. And before that Ainge dealt with Big Baby, Delonte, and Ray back in the day. Even a guy or two who really improved had to get paid somewhere else. Like KO.

The Celts have kind of become a place for only 3 kinds of players....stars totally doing their jobs (like Al or Tatum). If you're a former star not doing your job you go to the Nets. Right Pierce? Another kind of player is a cheap as heck one with a lot to prove. Like Evan Turner or Shane Larkin or Theis. Another kind of player is a guy on a rookie deal.

Not a lot of role players. Baynes. Baynes is the role player at a mid level. And that's practically it.

There are no non stars that got paid and stuck around. That doesn't happen here.

:o
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 12, 2018, 01:45:00 AM
I'm getting the feeling the Celtics maybe know more about the Smart issue than we do.

It's almost like the hand thing bugged them more than they let on. Maybe a lot more.
Agree completely. Last year apparently the Cs offered 4 years at over $11 million per, Smart said no. After an injury riddled season, 11 games lost to a self-inflicted injury, and another awful offensive season, the front office isn't exactly jumping up and down to offer him an offer. It seems like they have even stepped back and removed that offer they gave him before last season.

Behind the scenes, I agree completely, the Celtics know a ton more that people don't that perhaps has soured their stance on Smart.

I have to say, having a player act so immaturely as to punch a glass picture and hurt himself in anger hours after the loss that left him out for 11 games(and luckily not more as reports are he came very close to doing much more severe damage), would make me deeply question giving such a person a long term lucrative contract.

They're saying all the right things publicly but it seems they're ready to move on. Rosier frankly is much better and much less headache

I do find it strange if there is any truth to the lack of communication from the Celtics if they plan on matching.

Either the source is lying or the Celtics do not intend to match.

If it’s the latter, the Celtics should be careful because his options are running out and he may be forced to accept the QO and they may get stuck with a guy they alienated... who is playing for a contract as an UFA with a NTC. That could end poorly.

Hopefully everything works out for Smart and us, hopefully together.

There is zero chance of that happening
Actually players that sign their qualifying offer get a no trade clause as part of the deal for that year they play under the qualifying offer, So if Smart signs the QO, its a certainty he gets the NTC.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: tenn_smoothie on July 12, 2018, 05:49:16 AM
"I do find it strange if there is any truth to the lack of communication from the Celtics if they plan on matching. Either the source is lying or the Celtics do not intend to match.

If it’s the latter, the Celtics should be careful because his options are running out and he may be forced to accept the QO and they may get stuck with a guy they alienated... who is playing for a contract as an UFA with a NTC. That could end poorly."



Danny has become quite skilled at alienating good players.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 12, 2018, 06:58:00 AM
Quote
Danny has become quite skilled at alienating good players

What are you talking about for years no one would come here in Free Agency.  Now we are oftend mentioned and talked about.   I call BS on your statement.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: ederson on July 12, 2018, 07:20:25 AM
The rockets are following the same tactic with capella
I guess morey is a fool too
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 12, 2018, 07:24:29 AM
I just don't understand why this is taking so long. The longer it takes the more likely some teams can move money and make it available to make an offer for Smart (ie. OKC). C'mon Danny get this done and stop dragging it out.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 12, 2018, 07:33:30 AM
I just don't understand why this is taking so long. The longer it takes the more likely some teams can move money and make it available to make an offer for Smart (ie. OKC). C'mon Danny get this done and stop dragging it out.

OKC can’t make an offer for Smart.  They are $57 million over the cap.  There is no team aside from Golden State that is less of a threat.

The Celtics are being patient because they don’t think Smart can get he deal he wants from anybody.  Teams aren’t going to create cap room for the sole purpose of signing Smart, either.  If they do, and Smart accepts their offer, the Celtics can match, meaning that team has acquired cap room can no longer use as well with almost all worthy free agents already off the market.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on July 12, 2018, 07:35:06 AM
I just don't understand why this is taking so long. The longer it takes the more likely some teams can move money and make it available to make an offer for Smart (ie. OKC). C'mon Danny get this done and stop dragging it out.

Quote
The Marcus Smart situation could be resolved tomorrow. The Celtics could step in with a multi-year deal that suits their restricted free agent guard, or another club could make him an offer that is beyond the current market value. But don’t count on it. Sources indicate this may drag on for quite a while. Smart determined his worth to be more than what is out there in this summer’s market, and the Celts are in no rush to bid against themselves. – via Boston Herald

Quote
A source indicated that if nothing gets settled this week, the sides could take a break after Vegas and revisit things later. – via Boston Herald
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 12, 2018, 07:52:54 AM
I just don't understand why this is taking so long. The longer it takes the more likely some teams can move money and make it available to make an offer for Smart (ie. OKC). C'mon Danny get this done and stop dragging it out.

OKC can’t make an offer for Smart.  They are $57 million over the cap.  There is no team aside from Golden State that is less of a threat.

The Celtics are being patient because they don’t think Smart can get he deal he wants from anybody.  Teams aren’t going to create cap room for the sole purpose of signing Smart, either.  If they do, and Smart accepts their offer, the Celtics can match, meaning that team has acquired cap room can no longer use as well with almost all worthy free agents already off the market.

Okay so maybe it's not OKC but how about Brooklyn? or Sacramento? The point is you should try to get this important piece of the team signed without having to match something you don't want to match. I am pretty confident that if we came up a team friendly deal that also made Marcus feel wanted and maybe with a player option at some point that they could get it done. I understand you don't bid against yourself but you should also show some love to your players for their efforts. Does anyone think we would be doing this in a few years when it's time for Jaylen or Jayson? I know it's a different level perhaps but just as important for our team and chemistry. If you know you are going to pay tax then just get it done or be creative to stay just below tax but make the player happy as well.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Birdman on July 12, 2018, 07:55:24 AM
People have spoken in this poll 106 no-18 yes..so we all want smart back but not what he probably asking for..he can be replace plus it would hurt celtics salary cap..sign and trade is what i do
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: PAOBoston on July 12, 2018, 08:04:17 AM
Smart and his agent are probably scrambling to get anything close to the 4 year/$48 mil the C's offered him last year. The reality is for him not to have signed yet, it means he's still holding out hope that someone will offer more than that. At this point, it doesn't sound like anyone has even come close to that.

The C's are sitting pretty imo. They are not going to get against themselves. They may offer Smart that deal again. They may have pulled that deal after this last season. Smart may just sign the QO. I think the C's win in both of those situations.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hwangjini_1 on July 12, 2018, 08:15:37 AM
I just don't understand why this is taking so long. The longer it takes the more likely some teams can move money and make it available to make an offer for Smart (ie. OKC). C'mon Danny get this done and stop dragging it out.

OKC can’t make an offer for Smart.  They are $57 million over the cap.  There is no team aside from Golden State that is less of a threat.

The Celtics are being patient because they don’t think Smart can get he deal he wants from anybody.  Teams aren’t going to create cap room for the sole purpose of signing Smart, either.  If they do, and Smart accepts their offer, the Celtics can match, meaning that team has acquired cap room can no longer use as well with almost all worthy free agents already off the market.

Okay so maybe it's not OKC but how about Brooklyn? or Sacramento? The point is you should try to get this important piece of the team signed without having to match something you don't want to match. I am pretty confident that if we came up a team friendly deal that also made Marcus feel wanted and maybe with a player option at some point that they could get it done. I understand you don't bid against yourself but you should also show some love to your players for their efforts. Does anyone think we would be doing this in a few years when it's time for Jaylen or Jayson? I know it's a different level perhaps but just as important for our team and chemistry. If you know you are going to pay tax then just get it done or be creative to stay just below tax but make the player happy as well.
In all honesty, this is the sort of thinking and visceral reaction that prompts clubs to bid against themselves. I trust Ainge  to never overpay for non-stars.

I want smart back yet I trust ainge to know the market far better than I do.

This may not be resolved soon, so buckle up folks.  ;D
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 12, 2018, 08:25:48 AM
Smart and his agent are probably scrambling to get anything close to the 4 year/$48 mil the C's offered him last year. The reality is for him not to have signed yet, it means he's still holding out hope that someone will offer more than that. At this point, it doesn't sound like anyone has even come close to that.

The C's are sitting pretty imo. They are not going to get against themselves. They may offer Smart that deal again. They may have pulled that deal after this last season. Smart may just sign the QO. I think the C's win in both of those situations.

Disagree that if he is forced to sign QO we don't win. It's a lose-lose.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: PAOBoston on July 12, 2018, 09:19:12 AM
Smart and his agent are probably scrambling to get anything close to the 4 year/$48 mil the C's offered him last year. The reality is for him not to have signed yet, it means he's still holding out hope that someone will offer more than that. At this point, it doesn't sound like anyone has even come close to that.

The C's are sitting pretty imo. They are not going to get against themselves. They may offer Smart that deal again. They may have pulled that deal after this last season. Smart may just sign the QO. I think the C's win in both of those situations.

Disagree that if he is forced to sign QO we don't win. It's a lose-lose.
It really isn't. Cs win big time on that. It's not their fault Smart and his agent misread the market. That's on them. Cs have them an offer last year that no team has come close to offering yet and they turned it down. It's basically the Noel situation all over again.

Cs are letting the market dictate what Smart is really worth. That being said, I do think they will work out a deal.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 12, 2018, 09:25:40 AM
"Winning" a negotiation isn't the most important thing though.

I'd be pretty happy to have Smart on a 10-12 AAV contract. Especially as I think Rozier is going to get far more next season with all the cap space.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mrceltics2013 on July 12, 2018, 10:29:49 AM
I honestly think smart wasn’t signed because DA wanted to trade him for Kawhi
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 12, 2018, 11:16:29 AM
Sure feels like Danny is making a statement on smart’s BS off the court

I mean Boston doesn’t have to do anything until someone gives him an offer.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 12, 2018, 11:41:33 AM
Smart and his agent are probably scrambling to get anything close to the 4 year/$48 mil the C's offered him last year. The reality is for him not to have signed yet, it means he's still holding out hope that someone will offer more than that. At this point, it doesn't sound like anyone has even come close to that.

The C's are sitting pretty imo. They are not going to get against themselves. They may offer Smart that deal again. They may have pulled that deal after this last season. Smart may just sign the QO. I think the C's win in both of those situations.

Disagree that if he is forced to sign QO we don't win. It's a lose-lose.
It really isn't. Cs win big time on that. It's not their fault Smart and his agent misread the market. That's on them. Cs have them an offer last year that no team has come close to offering yet and they turned it down. It's basically the Noel situation all over again.

Cs are letting the market dictate what Smart is really worth. That being said, I do think they will work out a deal.

Exactly the Noel situation all over again. So how did Noel work out on the QO for Noel last year? How did it help out Dallas? Where is Noel now?

Exactly. I do NOT want an unhappy, non-productive Smart this year followed by him leaving as an UFA next year. I want the Marcus Smart we have know up until now for this year and years to come.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: jpotter33 on July 12, 2018, 11:46:16 AM
https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1017239080143282176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1017417298251010048&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
A source close to Marcus Smart says Smart has been “unresponsive” in #Celtics’ efforts to reach out because he is “insulted by what he feels is a lack of respect by front office.”

I mean, it seems like Smart's ego is a bit damaged from all of this, which is the main force driving all of these reports. It's not the C's fault that he overestimated his value on the market this summer. Yeah, Smart has given a lot to the team and gives it his all every time he steps on the court, but the C's still have to do what is best for them as a team/organization. They're not going to simply offer everything Smart wants given the tax ramifications and the fact that no other team is forcing their hand.

Perhaps Smart should've just accepted the 12/48 extension back in October rather than listen to his dumbarse agent giving him false hope. Bad thing is that after all of this it's hard to see Smart sticking with us next summer if he plays this year on the QO.

I wish a team like Sacramento or Brooklyn would sign him to the 12/48 type of contract so we can be forced to match and get this all over with.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: cman88 on July 12, 2018, 11:50:18 AM
Danny seems to be following the Belicheck MO when players ask for more than their market worth. See Donta Hightower or Wes Welker. Both guys agents balked at patriots offers which would've paid them much more than they wound up making. Unfortunately for the pats welker went to another team while Hightower came back with his tail between his legs.

Not sure why smart should ignore the Celtics and feel "disrespected" because they wont pay him millions more than he is worth. Doesn't seem like other teams want to pay him that either.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: GreenShooter on July 12, 2018, 11:52:06 AM
Danny seems to be following the Belicheck MO when players ask for more than their market worth. See Donta Hightower or Wes Welker. Both guys agents balked at patriots offers which would've paid them much more than they wound up making. Unfortunately for the pats welker went to another team while Hightower came back with his tail between his legs.

Not sure why smart should ignore the Celtics and feel "disrespected" because they wont pay him millions more than he is worth. Doesn't seem like other teams want to pay him that either.
I hope this doesn't turn into a Malcolm Butler situation. You Patriot fans know exactly what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: RJ87 on July 12, 2018, 11:58:43 AM
https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1017239080143282176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1017417298251010048&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
A source close to Marcus Smart says Smart has been “unresponsive” in #Celtics’ efforts to reach out because he is “insulted by what he feels is a lack of respect by front office.”

I mean, it seems like Smart's ego is a bit damaged from all of this, which is the main force driving all of these reports. It's not the C's fault that he overestimated his value on the market this summer. Yeah, Smart has given a lot to the team and gives it his all every time he steps on the court, but the C's still have to do what is best for them as a team/organization. They're not going to simply offer everything Smart wants given the tax ramifications and the fact that no other team is forcing their hand.

Perhaps Smart should've just accepted the 12/48 extension back in October rather than listen to his dumbarse agent giving him false hope. Bad thing is that after all of this it's hard to see Smart sticking with us next summer if he plays this year on the QO.

I wish a team like Sacramento or Brooklyn would sign him to the 12/48 type of contract so we can be forced to match and get this all over with.

I think it's quite clear he was expecting an Evan Turner/Kent Bazemore type of contract. Some of these agents really dropped the ball in evaluating the current market and explaining to their clients that the 2016 off season windfall was a fluke.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 12, 2018, 12:16:56 PM
I think Nets are trying to free up cap space to make a offer on Smart.  We need to get something done before they have a chance right?

https://twitter.com/Mitch_Lawrence/status/1017135849702658048

Oklahoma City looking to get something for Carmelo Anthony and talking to Brooklyn about a deal, with Jeremy Lin potentially going to OKC, per sources. Nets looking to get pick(s). Want to move Lin and would buy out Melo.
The Nets are trying to get future draft picks. You don't try to open up cap space by trading for a $28 million a year player and releasing him or buying him out. If the Nets were looking to free up space to sign a player there are easier ways than trading for Carmelo Anthony.

I think the idea is that they would use the stretch provision on Anthony.  If waived before Aug 31, Anthony's remaining year can be stretched across 3 years, reducing the cap hit from 27.9M down to 9.3M per year.

So, if the Nets trade Lin (12.5M) plus, say Carroll (15.4M), for Anthony plus draft picks they can

clear a roster spot
waive Anthony and clear 18.6M of space

That's just one possibility.  Not saying I have any idea whether the Nets want to do this.

If the Nets are genuinely attempting to trade for Carmelo with the intention of immediately waiving him, it's almost certainly to clear the final year of Allen Crabbe's contract from their cap sheet and go into the 2019 Offseason Of Many Stars with almost perfectly clean books (aside from, hilariously, a $5.4m charge for Deron Williams) by eating the entire charge this season (what they did with Dwight), not in an attempt to waive and stretch Carmelo so they can offer Marcus $80 million in the next few weeks.

Yeah, I totally agree.  I'm just trying to make some sense out of the pieces of info in the rumor.  It mentioned Lin as one of the pieces.   'Couldn't figure out how to do both Lin and Crabbe.

It's just a silly mental exercise in making the trade rules work at this point.  Very little of this rumor makes much sense from a basketball standpoint.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: moiso on July 12, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1017239080143282176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1017417298251010048&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
A source close to Marcus Smart says Smart has been “unresponsive” in #Celtics’ efforts to reach out because he is “insulted by what he feels is a lack of respect by front office.”

I mean, it seems like Smart's ego is a bit damaged from all of this, which is the main force driving all of these reports. It's not the C's fault that he overestimated his value on the market this summer. Yeah, Smart has given a lot to the team and gives it his all every time he steps on the court, but the C's still have to do what is best for them as a team/organization. They're not going to simply offer everything Smart wants given the tax ramifications and the fact that no other team is forcing their hand.

Perhaps Smart should've just accepted the 12/48 extension back in October rather than listen to his dumbarse agent giving him false hope. Bad thing is that after all of this it's hard to see Smart sticking with us next summer if he plays this year on the QO.

I wish a team like Sacramento or Brooklyn would sign him to the 12/48 type of contract so we can be forced to match and get this all over with.
I wouldn't automatically blame the agent.  You think Smart has no input?  Who told Smart to go to college for an extra year only to slip lower in the draft than if he declared?  Clearly Smart always bets on himself and always thinks he will improve with time.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 12, 2018, 12:42:27 PM
I just don't understand why this is taking so long. The longer it takes the more likely some teams can move money and make it available to make an offer for Smart (ie. OKC). C'mon Danny get this done and stop dragging it out.

OKC can’t make an offer for Smart.  They are $57 million over the cap.  There is no team aside from Golden State that is less of a threat.

The Celtics are being patient because they don’t think Smart can get he deal he wants from anybody.  Teams aren’t going to create cap room for the sole purpose of signing Smart, either.  If they do, and Smart accepts their offer, the Celtics can match, meaning that team has acquired cap room can no longer use as well with almost all worthy free agents already off the market.

Okay so maybe it's not OKC but how about Brooklyn? or Sacramento? The point is you should try to get this important piece of the team signed without having to match something you don't want to match. I am pretty confident that if we came up a team friendly deal that also made Marcus feel wanted and maybe with a player option at some point that they could get it done. I understand you don't bid against yourself but you should also show some love to your players for their efforts. Does anyone think we would be doing this in a few years when it's time for Jaylen or Jayson? I know it's a different level perhaps but just as important for our team and chemistry. If you know you are going to pay tax then just get it done or be creative to stay just below tax but make the player happy as well.
The bolded area....maybe the front office doesn't think Smart is as important a piece as you do. This team won 55 games without Hayward all year and Kyrie and Smart for a third of the year each. Add Kyrie and Hayward as healthy and subtract Smart, and this team still wins 60+ games and still probably goes to the Finals. Maybe Smart just isn't as important as you think he is.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: slamtheking on July 12, 2018, 12:42:35 PM
https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1017239080143282176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1017417298251010048&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fboston-celtics

Quote
A source close to Marcus Smart says Smart has been “unresponsive” in #Celtics’ efforts to reach out because he is “insulted by what he feels is a lack of respect by front office.”

I mean, it seems like Smart's ego is a bit damaged from all of this, which is the main force driving all of these reports. It's not the C's fault that he overestimated his value on the market this summer. Yeah, Smart has given a lot to the team and gives it his all every time he steps on the court, but the C's still have to do what is best for them as a team/organization. They're not going to simply offer everything Smart wants given the tax ramifications and the fact that no other team is forcing their hand.

Perhaps Smart should've just accepted the 12/48 extension back in October rather than listen to his dumbarse agent giving him false hope. Bad thing is that after all of this it's hard to see Smart sticking with us next summer if he plays this year on the QO.

I wish a team like Sacramento or Brooklyn would sign him to the 12/48 type of contract so we can be forced to match and get this all over with.
I wouldn't automatically blame the agent.  You think Smart has no input?  Who told Smart to go to college for an extra year only to slip lower in the draft than if he declared?  Clearly Smart always bets on himself and always thinks he will improve with time.
Pretty difficult to imagine him being picked earlier than 6th in the prior draft.  not that that year's draft had any standouts or sure things at that time but I think going back for that extra year actually helped his draft position.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Vermont Green on July 12, 2018, 12:57:49 PM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 12, 2018, 01:07:46 PM
I just don't understand why this is taking so long. The longer it takes the more likely some teams can move money and make it available to make an offer for Smart (ie. OKC). C'mon Danny get this done and stop dragging it out.

OKC can’t make an offer for Smart.  They are $57 million over the cap.  There is no team aside from Golden State that is less of a threat.

The Celtics are being patient because they don’t think Smart can get he deal he wants from anybody.  Teams aren’t going to create cap room for the sole purpose of signing Smart, either.  If they do, and Smart accepts their offer, the Celtics can match, meaning that team has acquired cap room can no longer use as well with almost all worthy free agents already off the market.

Okay so maybe it's not OKC but how about Brooklyn? or Sacramento? The point is you should try to get this important piece of the team signed without having to match something you don't want to match. I am pretty confident that if we came up a team friendly deal that also made Marcus feel wanted and maybe with a player option at some point that they could get it done. I understand you don't bid against yourself but you should also show some love to your players for their efforts. Does anyone think we would be doing this in a few years when it's time for Jaylen or Jayson? I know it's a different level perhaps but just as important for our team and chemistry. If you know you are going to pay tax then just get it done or be creative to stay just below tax but make the player happy as well.
The bolded area....maybe the front office doesn't think Smart is as important a piece as you do. This team won 55 games without Hayward all year and Kyrie and Smart for a third of the year each. Add Kyrie and Hayward as healthy and subtract Smart, and this team still wins 60+ games and still probably goes to the Finals. Maybe Smart just isn't as important as you think he is.

I am sure that is very possible that they do not value him as much as I do but adding Hayward & Kyrie certainly helps the offense but I would like to keep the defense in tact as well. Offense wins games, defense wins championships. I still wonder if this has anything to do with Kawhi and the possibility of signing Smart to a bigger contract to accommodate a Kawhi trade. If that's the case then I can live with the delay but if not I just want to get this done. Yes I guess I certainly could value Smart more than the ownership wants to pay tax but if you want to be one of the big boys then start paying like the big boys.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: PAOBoston on July 12, 2018, 02:32:33 PM
Smart and his agent are probably scrambling to get anything close to the 4 year/$48 mil the C's offered him last year. The reality is for him not to have signed yet, it means he's still holding out hope that someone will offer more than that. At this point, it doesn't sound like anyone has even come close to that.

The C's are sitting pretty imo. They are not going to get against themselves. They may offer Smart that deal again. They may have pulled that deal after this last season. Smart may just sign the QO. I think the C's win in both of those situations.

Disagree that if he is forced to sign QO we don't win. It's a lose-lose.
It really isn't. Cs win big time on that. It's not their fault Smart and his agent misread the market. That's on them. Cs have them an offer last year that no team has come close to offering yet and they turned it down. It's basically the Noel situation all over again.

Cs are letting the market dictate what Smart is really worth. That being said, I do think they will work out a deal.

Exactly the Noel situation all over again. So how did Noel work out on the QO for Noel last year? How did it help out Dallas? Where is Noel now?

Exactly. I do NOT want an unhappy, non-productive Smart this year followed by him leaving as an UFA next year. I want the Marcus Smart we have know up until now for this year and years to come.
What would you have them do? Just go above the offer that they offered him last year for no reason just so he won't have hurt feelings? I get what you are saying but it is business. Smart was the one who elected to turn down that deal and chose to play his cards this off-season unfortunately.

Like I said earlier, I expect both sides to come to a deal near the one offered to him last season in the end.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on July 12, 2018, 02:43:04 PM

Exactly the Noel situation all over again. So how did Noel work out on the QO for Noel last year? How did it help out Dallas? Where is Noel now?

Exactly. I do NOT want an unhappy, non-productive Smart this year followed by him leaving as an UFA next year. I want the Marcus Smart we have know up until now for this year and years to come.

I'm not sure I understand.  The Noel situation is a caution for players, not for teams. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 12, 2018, 06:05:34 PM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."

Well, technically Danny didn't say that he was "willing to pay the tax for Smart".  He doesn't even say for sure that they plan on being a tax payer this coming season.  Just that they will pay the luxury tax and that they plan on being a taxpayer.

But that could mean next season.

It's typical Ainge.   Vague and non-committal.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on July 12, 2018, 06:10:29 PM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."

Well, technically Danny didn't say that he was "willing to pay the tax for Smart".  He doesn't even say for sure that they plan on being a tax payer this coming season.  Just that they will pay the luxury tax and that they plan on being a taxpayer.

But that could mean next season.

It's typical Ainge.   Vague and non-committal.

That was my take, too. I get frustrated by the media’s lack of follow up. All we needed was a “This season?” Otherwise, the quote means virtually nothing.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Birdman on July 12, 2018, 06:29:11 PM
Still alot of RFAs still out there..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on July 12, 2018, 07:13:30 PM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."

Well, technically Danny didn't say that he was "willing to pay the tax for Smart".  He doesn't even say for sure that they plan on being a tax payer this coming season.  Just that they will pay the luxury tax and that they plan on being a taxpayer.

But that could mean next season.

It's typical Ainge.   Vague and non-committal.

That was my take, too. I get frustrated by the media’s lack of follow up. All we needed was a “This season?” Otherwise, the quote means virtually nothing.

He was talking about this season though. There was a question before the comment.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: More Banners on July 12, 2018, 08:14:57 PM
At this point, the incentive for the team is the ability to trade him midsession. So avoiding the NTC on a 1-year QO, sign a 2-year with an opt out for a million over the QO, with a trade bonus.

Everybody wins.

The real lesson here kids is this:  when someone tries to hand you forty-eight million dollars, just take it.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 12, 2018, 08:48:14 PM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."

Well, technically Danny didn't say that he was "willing to pay the tax for Smart".  He doesn't even say for sure that they plan on being a tax payer this coming season.  Just that they will pay the luxury tax and that they plan on being a taxpayer.

But that could mean next season.

It's typical Ainge.   Vague and non-committal.

That was my take, too. I get frustrated by the media’s lack of follow up. All we needed was a “This season?” Otherwise, the quote means virtually nothing.

He was talking about this season though. There was a question before the comment.

I just watched the Ainge media scrum and I didn't get the sense Danny was saying he was willing to go into the tax this season. Said Cs would be taxpayers, but that's hardly a revelation. Would be amazed if Ainge would answer any question that pinned him down to a certain action.

Would also be amazed if Danny did go into the tax just to sign Smart. Trade or stretch someone to make more room under the luxury tax to sign Smart? Sure. Sign Smart and go into the tax by a few million? Not a chance in hell. That would be stupid financially and these guys aren't stupid.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 12, 2018, 08:56:09 PM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."

Well, technically Danny didn't say that he was "willing to pay the tax for Smart".  He doesn't even say for sure that they plan on being a tax payer this coming season.  Just that they will pay the luxury tax and that they plan on being a taxpayer.

But that could mean next season.

It's typical Ainge.   Vague and non-committal.

That was my take, too. I get frustrated by the media’s lack of follow up. All we needed was a “This season?” Otherwise, the quote means virtually nothing.

He was talking about this season though. There was a question before the comment.

I just watched the Ainge media scrum and I didn't get the sense Danny was saying he was willing to go into the tax this season. Said Cs would be taxpayers, but that's hardly a revelation. Would be amazed if Ainge would answer any question that pinned him down to a certain action.

Would also be amazed if Danny did go into the tax just to sign Smart. Trade or stretch someone to make more room under the luxury tax to sign Smart? Sure. Sign Smart and go into the tax by a few million? Not a chance in hell. That would be stupid financially and these guys aren't stupid.

I maintain if they weren’t willing to go into the tax to keep Smart they wouldn’t have rushed to sign Baynes to a contract that’s more than most players of his ilk are getting this summer.  I’m sure it’s their preference to not go into the tax this summer, but I think they chose to put that option on the table with Baynes.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 12, 2018, 09:27:03 PM
Yeah, I totally agree.  I'm just trying to make some sense out of the pieces of info in the rumor.  It mentioned Lin as one of the pieces.  'Couldn't figure out how to do both Lin and Crabbe.

It's just a silly mental exercise in making the trade rules work at this point.  Very little of this rumor makes much sense from a basketball standpoint.

Lin and Crabbe are almost an exact match, salary-wise, for Carmelo. It's probably exactly the deal being considered. They'd give OKC some of the perimeter depth (and shooting) that they've lacked the last several years but the flip side of that is that they'd come with massive, record-setting tax payments (and Lin's an enormous health question mark). Ownership is probably trying to figure out whether they'd rather simply cut Carmelo loose and stretch the hit to save real money or whether they're all-in on Westbrook/George and want to convert Carmelo into actual on-the-court talent, albeit overpaid talent.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Dino Pitino on July 12, 2018, 09:55:13 PM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."

Well, technically Danny didn't say that he was "willing to pay the tax for Smart".  He doesn't even say for sure that they plan on being a tax payer this coming season.  Just that they will pay the luxury tax and that they plan on being a taxpayer.

But that could mean next season.

It's typical Ainge.   Vague and non-committal.

That was my take, too. I get frustrated by the media’s lack of follow up. All we needed was a “This season?” Otherwise, the quote means virtually nothing.

He was talking about this season though. There was a question before the comment.

I just watched the Ainge media scrum and I didn't get the sense Danny was saying he was willing to go into the tax this season. Said Cs would be taxpayers, but that's hardly a revelation. Would be amazed if Ainge would answer any question that pinned him down to a certain action.

Would also be amazed if Danny did go into the tax just to sign Smart. Trade or stretch someone to make more room under the luxury tax to sign Smart? Sure. Sign Smart and go into the tax by a few million? Not a chance in hell. That would be stupid financially and these guys aren't stupid.

I like what Ainge's statement portends. They're going for it now, they want to win the championship this year. And if Smart would be an integral part of that then it'd be penny wise and pound foolish not to pay him a market rate-ish number just to avoid the tax by a few million and fend off the penalty for an extra year. Win now. This year.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: More Banners on July 12, 2018, 10:15:42 PM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."

Well, technically Danny didn't say that he was "willing to pay the tax for Smart".  He doesn't even say for sure that they plan on being a tax payer this coming season.  Just that they will pay the luxury tax and that they plan on being a taxpayer.

But that could mean next season.

It's typical Ainge.   Vague and non-committal.

That was my take, too. I get frustrated by the media’s lack of follow up. All we needed was a “This season?” Otherwise, the quote means virtually nothing.

He was talking about this season though. There was a question before the comment.

I just watched the Ainge media scrum and I didn't get the sense Danny was saying he was willing to go into the tax this season. Said Cs would be taxpayers, but that's hardly a revelation. Would be amazed if Ainge would answer any question that pinned him down to a certain action.

Would also be amazed if Danny did go into the tax just to sign Smart. Trade or stretch someone to make more room under the luxury tax to sign Smart? Sure. Sign Smart and go into the tax by a few million? Not a chance in hell. That would be stupid financially and these guys aren't stupid.

I like what Ainge's statement portends. They're going for it now, they want to win the championship this year. And if Smart would be an integral part of that then it'd be penny wise and pound foolish not to pay him a market rate-ish number just to avoid the tax by a few million and fend off the penalty for an extra year.

If not for the eventual team-busting repeater tax. Eventually, they will pay tax to keep their top 7-8. It's about dodging the repeated tax another year.

And Rozier/Jalen Brown/Tatum are all going to get paid much more than Smart, all while we hope Kyrie and Gordon are still here getting the max.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 12, 2018, 10:24:48 PM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."

Well, technically Danny didn't say that he was "willing to pay the tax for Smart".  He doesn't even say for sure that they plan on being a tax payer this coming season.  Just that they will pay the luxury tax and that they plan on being a taxpayer.

But that could mean next season.

It's typical Ainge.   Vague and non-committal.

That was my take, too. I get frustrated by the media’s lack of follow up. All we needed was a “This season?” Otherwise, the quote means virtually nothing.

He was talking about this season though. There was a question before the comment.

I just watched the Ainge media scrum and I didn't get the sense Danny was saying he was willing to go into the tax this season. Said Cs would be taxpayers, but that's hardly a revelation. Would be amazed if Ainge would answer any question that pinned him down to a certain action.

Would also be amazed if Danny did go into the tax just to sign Smart. Trade or stretch someone to make more room under the luxury tax to sign Smart? Sure. Sign Smart and go into the tax by a few million? Not a chance in hell. That would be stupid financially and these guys aren't stupid.

I like what Ainge's statement portends. They're going for it now, they want to win the championship this year. And if Smart would be an integral part of that then it'd be penny wise and pound foolish not to pay him a market rate-ish number just to avoid the tax by a few million and fend off the penalty for an extra year. Win now. This year.
I think its poor fiscal management if you pay Smart so much you go into the luxury tax this year. And by that I even mean paying Smart to the point of being in the tax and not being able to dump enough salary before the end of the year to be out of the tax.

Yes, the one year of a small amount of tax won't kill you this year. But the repeater tax penalty 3 and 4 years down the road with big money going out to Irving, Brown, Tatum, and a resigned Horford on top of the salaries of Smart, Rozier, and some vets plus the high draft pick next year, means tens of millions of tax dollars that come one year earlier than they had to be.

Go for it this year but be fiscally intelligent and don't go over that luxury tax threshold this year. Those extra tens of millions of penalties coming one year earlier would all be due to giving a defensive minded, bench role player, that can't shoot a contract that was an major overpay.

Not smart, imo (pun intended)!!!
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 12, 2018, 10:32:56 PM
Will we be paying tax next year if Kyrie walks? So both Kyrie & Smart could walk next year. Well at least it didn't cost the owners any tax money.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: jambr380 on July 12, 2018, 10:54:29 PM
I maintain if they weren’t willing to go into the tax to keep Smart they wouldn’t have rushed to sign Baynes to a contract that’s more than most players of his ilk are getting this summer.  I’m sure it’s their preference to not go into the tax this summer, but I think they chose to put that option on the table with Baynes.

I don't doubt that the option is technically on the table, but I assumed it meant that Ainge values Baynes more than Smart and was willing to lose Smart for nothing if it came down to it. I believe the tax really does matter to him and I have been preparing myself for the loss of Smart should another team step up and make him even a KO-type offer.

Ideally, I think Ainge would be psyched to bring back Smart at the QO, sign Bird to a Semi-type deal, and call it day. With so many guards on the roster, Ainge would better be able to determine who to keep between Smart/Rozier and if Bird is actually a viable replacement for either; all the while keeping down minutes (and perhaps values) for all of them.

Smart's intensity is infectious and he is a very unique player, but with Hayward's return as well as Brown and Rozier showing incredible improvement in 17-18 (not known when Smart was offered his extension last off-season), Ainge might not value him like he once did...especially without him showing much improvement and of course the infamous picture frame incident (I do not think this should matter, at all, btw).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: #1P4P on July 13, 2018, 12:52:48 AM
I venture to guess that Smart's agent rubbed Celtics brass the wrong way during negotiations before this past season. When negotiations broke down, the quotes seemed as if the situation ended contentiously with Smart's agent offended that the C's didn't budge and Boston pulling their offer and sending them to a thin FA marketplace.

If Marcus wants the pulled offer, he's going to have come to the table on his own behalf (just in case there are any hard feelings between his agent and the C's) or take the QO and try to take advantage of the thicker marketplace.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: tenn_smoothie on July 13, 2018, 01:20:08 AM
Was there ever a confirmation made public that explained the real reason for the picture punching incident in the LA hotel room ?  Lots of rumors circulated for weeks while Marcus healed from the bench. If even part of his reaction that nite was related to losing to the Lakers, I love that Marcus' heart is in the right place. I also appreciated that even though he could not play and had to feel a little sheepish about esentially injuring himself, every game - home & away - there he was, sitting on the bench yelling and supporting his teammates (#11 could take a few lessons from Marcus' dedication to team).

Most championship teams have that special tough guy who does a lot of the dirty work and makes important plays in the 2nd half of crucial games. These players also influence their teammates to have a tougher mindset.

We need to keep Marcus Smart long term and let him help us hang some banners !!
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Birdman on July 13, 2018, 05:30:36 AM
Brooklyn traded Lin so i can see Nets offering Smart some big bucks
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on July 13, 2018, 06:04:21 AM
Brooklyn traded Lin so i can see Nets offering Smart some big bucks

They don’t have cap room after taking on Faried.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: trickybilly on July 13, 2018, 07:34:16 AM
Brooklyn traded Lin so i can see Nets offering Smart some big bucks

Can also see Nets offering Capela and Jabari Parker cash... Also could see them keeping 2.5 max salary slots open for next year's bonanza...
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on July 13, 2018, 07:37:48 AM
Brooklyn traded Lin so i can see Nets offering Smart some big bucks

Can also see Nets offering Capela and Jabari Parker cash... Also could see them keeping 2.5 max salary slots open for next year's bonanza...

The Nets don’t have cap space for Capela, Parker, or anybody else. They just used it in the Faried trade.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: tonydelk on July 13, 2018, 10:05:51 AM
After these deals the only team with cap space left that can sign someone significant seems to be Sacramento.  Tough year for RFA's.  They will either have to sign cheaper deals at lower salaries for security or wait a year when the salary cap goes up but there is a ton of quality FA's next year. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 13, 2018, 10:33:43 AM
I am surprised by this (willing to pay the tax for Smart).  I am surprised Ainge said anything one way or the other.

Per Chris Forsberg
ESPN Staff Writer
Quote
Signing Smart at anything more than the qualifying offer would almost certainly push Boston into the luxury tax this season, but Ainge suggested the team is ready to pay to field a title contender.

"It's my job to be fiscally responsible, but we will pay the tax," Ainge said. "We plan on being a taxpayer for sure."

Well, technically Danny didn't say that he was "willing to pay the tax for Smart".  He doesn't even say for sure that they plan on being a tax payer this coming season.  Just that they will pay the luxury tax and that they plan on being a taxpayer.

But that could mean next season.

It's typical Ainge.   Vague and non-committal.

That was my take, too. I get frustrated by the media’s lack of follow up. All we needed was a “This season?” Otherwise, the quote means virtually nothing.

He was talking about this season though. There was a question before the comment.

I just watched the Ainge media scrum and I didn't get the sense Danny was saying he was willing to go into the tax this season. Said Cs would be taxpayers, but that's hardly a revelation. Would be amazed if Ainge would answer any question that pinned him down to a certain action.

Would also be amazed if Danny did go into the tax just to sign Smart. Trade or stretch someone to make more room under the luxury tax to sign Smart? Sure. Sign Smart and go into the tax by a few million? Not a chance in hell. That would be stupid financially and these guys aren't stupid.

I maintain if they weren’t willing to go into the tax to keep Smart they wouldn’t have rushed to sign Baynes to a contract that’s more than most players of his ilk are getting this summer.  I’m sure it’s their preference to not go into the tax this summer, but I think they chose to put that option on the table with Baynes.

That seems like a stretch in logic.   Simpler explanation is that they simply prioritized Baynes more.  And from a roster construction standpoint prioritizing Baynes makes a ton of sense.  Of our various free agents, he was the one who plays a positional role we had the least depth.

They can still sign Smart without going over the tax threshold by either (a) waiting until he agrees to play for a number under 7.9M or (b) trading Morris in a salary move (that would probably help Morris go to a team where he'll get more minutes anyway).

But I suspect Danny's preference is (a) so he's probably going to wait as long as he needs to.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Birdman on July 13, 2018, 10:38:13 AM
Brooklyn traded Lin so i can see Nets offering Smart some big bucks
Can Nets buy out Faried then have room for a RFA?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 13, 2018, 10:38:15 AM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 13, 2018, 11:12:56 AM
I'm really quite curious what deal the C's have on the table at the moment, especially since it doesn't seem like Smart is getting an offer sheet from anyone at this point.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 13, 2018, 11:13:40 AM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems unwise to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Vermont Green on July 13, 2018, 11:46:24 AM
Crazy how this FA season is playing out.  Here are some of the remaining FAs that teams have to choose from:

Smart
Parker (Jabari, not Tony)
Okafor
Hood
Len
Napier
Capela
Harrell

Marcus is probably the best of this bunch but not by a whole lot in some cases.  Some may put Capela ahead of him.  Marcus should not take this personally.  There are some pretty good young players still waiting along with him.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Tr1boy on July 13, 2018, 12:45:32 PM
Just trade Smart

The marriage is over

To Nets for Hollis Jefferson and 2nd

Or

To Grizzlies for Green or Mclemore and 2nd

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: kraidstar on July 13, 2018, 12:46:06 PM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems inside to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.

Morris has positive value, why on earth would we trade him for a bad multi-year deal?

Some teams have trade exceptions (Portland, Toronto, Denver, Cavs, Bulls, Pistons) that could absorb him and several of them would probably love to have him on their roster. Even rebuilding teams might want him to potentially have him so they could trade him at the deadline. Other teams could feasibly make cap room to absorb him.

No way we take bad salary in return for him unless we're getting something really good out of it. If he were on the market right now he'd be one of the better remaining free agents, and is a better player than stiffs like Rodney Hood who might get more money than his salary.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: smokeablount on July 13, 2018, 01:05:37 PM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems inside to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.

Morris has positive value, why on earth would we trade him for a bad multi-year deal?

Some teams have trade exceptions (Portland, Toronto, Denver, Cavs, Bulls, Pistons) that could absorb him and several of them would probably love to have him on their roster. Even rebuilding teams might want him to potentially have him so they could trade him at the deadline. Other teams could feasibly make cap room to absorb him.

No way we take bad salary in return for him unless we're getting something really good out of it. If he were on the market right now he'd be one of the better remaining free agents, and is a better player than stiffs like Rodney Hood who might get more money than his salary.

Portland is trying to win now, is capped out, and has terrible forwards. They should be eager to use a partial trade exemption to get Morris, who could even start for them. Maybe we could get a protected 1st, or a 2nd.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: PaulAllen on July 13, 2018, 01:37:37 PM
The best thing for Smart is to take the QO , bet on himself., and go into UFA next season.. He's one dimensional so improving his jumpshot could eventually lead him to a max contract somewhere ... not to mention if the C's take down the championship it will only enhance his value..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 13, 2018, 02:13:11 PM
The best thing for Smart is to take the QO , bet on himself., and go into UFA next season.. He's one dimensional so improving his jumpshot could eventually lead him to a max contract somewhere ... not to mention if the C's take down the championship it will only enhance his value..

That's the worst thing he could do.

I know this year was a market correction year for 2016, but next summer will be a market correction year for 2018. All of these FAs who signed 1 year deals will be FA again.

Simple economics of supply and demand. When there is a large amount of supply, it drives the cost down. Next year figures to have about 50% more FAs than normal. When you also allow the increasing number of players who are signed from Europe, the market for Smart could be small.

Smart is losing bargaining power. It sucks, but its true.

Don't get me wrong, Smart is an NBA player, but betting on himself at this moment is not smart. There are forces at work that he simply can't control.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 13, 2018, 02:21:26 PM
The best thing for Smart is to take the QO , bet on himself., and go into UFA next season.. He's one dimensional so improving his jumpshot could eventually lead him to a max contract somewhere ... not to mention if the C's take down the championship it will only enhance his value..

That's the worst thing he could do.

I know this year was a market correction year for 2016, but next summer will be a market correction year for 2018. All of these FAs who signed 1 year deals will be FA again.

Simple economics of supply and demand. When there is a large amount of supply, it drives the cost down. Next year figures to have about 50% more FAs than normal. When you also allow the increasing number of players who are signed from Europe, the market for Smart could be small.

Smart is losing bargaining power. It sucks, but its true.

Don't get me wrong, Smart is an NBA player, but betting on himself at this moment is not smart. There are forces at work that he simply can't control.

Depends on the finances they're discussing. If Boston's offering something in the neighborhood of $11, maybe $10 million annually then there's a good case to be made that Smart should just lock the money in. If Ainge is trying to get him to sign something that starts at like $7-7.5 million and goes for several years then it's much less difficult to make that money up going into next summer as a UFA. Ainge has earned the leeway to just be trusted to do his job, but it's possible for Boston to overplay their hand here too.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 13, 2018, 03:42:36 PM
Quote
Nets now have less than $3M of cap room, after which they’ll sign Joe Harris (replacing his $1.5M with an $8M starting salary) and Ed Davis ($4.4M R-MLE).

https://twitter.com/AlbertNahmad/status/1017740784827863041

Quote
Hawks effectively reduce their max potential cap room from $24.2M to $10.4M in exchange for Jeremy Lin, a 2025 second-round pick from the Nets, and a second-round pick swap right with the Nets in 2023.

https://twitter.com/AlbertNahmad/status/1017740854520369152

Almost all of the potential suitors out of the picture for now.  :D

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: libermaniac on July 13, 2018, 04:22:18 PM
Quote
Nets now have less than $3M of cap room, after which they’ll sign Joe Harris (replacing his $1.5M with an $8M starting salary) and Ed Davis ($4.4M R-MLE).

https://twitter.com/AlbertNahmad/status/1017740784827863041

Quote
Hawks effectively reduce their max potential cap room from $24.2M to $10.4M in exchange for Jeremy Lin, a 2025 second-round pick from the Nets, and a second-round pick swap right with the Nets in 2023.

https://twitter.com/AlbertNahmad/status/1017740854520369152

Almost all of the potential suitors out of the picture for now.  :D
Does that mean Sacto is the only remaining team with space?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Vermont Green on July 13, 2018, 04:30:43 PM
The Bulls still have cap room I think and other teams may have trade exemptions to allow them to go over the cap.  But the list is narrowing.

Smart would actually be good for Sacramento I would think.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 13, 2018, 05:02:34 PM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems unwise to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.

I was using a 3-year stretch value to get it off the books before the repeater penalties kick in.

Ultimately, your objection comes down to whether you favor keeping Morris over keeping Smart, which is fair.  I don't have strong opinion either way.   Both seem likely to have reduced roles this coming year, barring injury.

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 13, 2018, 05:05:21 PM
The Bulls still have cap room I think and other teams may have trade exemptions to allow them to go over the cap.  But the list is narrowing.

Smart would actually be good for Sacramento I would think.

Certainly wouldn't help our draft pick sending them a winner while we are losing a winner.

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: smokeablount on July 13, 2018, 05:13:05 PM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems unwise to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.

I was using a 3-year stretch value to get it off the books before the repeater penalties kick in.

Ultimately, your objection comes down to whether you favor keeping Morris over keeping Smart, which is fair.  I don't have strong opinion either way.   Both seem likely to have reduced roles this coming year, barring injury.

Well, ultimately your objection

I could be wrong, but I’d have to say I’d rather keep Smart than Morris, especially because it’d be for several years vs one for Morris.

If everyone is healthy we need Smart more, and if everyone isn’t healthy, IE Hayward or Tatum, I don’t think Morris is going to step up and help us win it all against GS. I’d take Smart.

Especially if we can get a pick for Morris, ideally in the potential upcoming “double draft” that might mix 2 different high school classes, then I’d be even more in favor of a move.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 13, 2018, 06:03:05 PM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems unwise to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.

I was using a 3-year stretch value to get it off the books before the repeater penalties kick in.

Ultimately, your objection comes down to whether you favor keeping Morris over keeping Smart, which is fair.  I don't have strong opinion either way.   Both seem likely to have reduced roles this coming year, barring injury.

Well, ultimately your objection

Nene's got two seasons left on his contract, so if you waive-and-stretch his contract the cap hit is spread out over the next five seasons, bringing you into repeater territory.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 13, 2018, 06:42:48 PM
I for one would rather have Morris than Nene.

Also the teams they are talking about signing and trading just do not have appealing pieces in return.   MEM is not going to give us Jackson, but I would do that in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 13, 2018, 07:00:58 PM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems unwise to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.

I was using a 3-year stretch value to get it off the books before the repeater penalties kick in.

Ultimately, your objection comes down to whether you favor keeping Morris over keeping Smart, which is fair.  I don't have strong opinion either way.   Both seem likely to have reduced roles this coming year, barring injury.

Well, ultimately your objection

I could be wrong, but I’d have to say I’d rather keep Smart than Morris, especially because it’d be for several years vs one for Morris.

If everyone is healthy we need Smart more, and if everyone isn’t healthy, IE Hayward or Tatum, I don’t think Morris is going to step up and help us win it all against GS. I’d take Smart.

Especially if we can get a pick for Morris, ideally in the potential upcoming “double draft” that might mix 2 different high school classes, then I’d be even more in favor of a move.
Silver let the owners know that upcoming draft isn't happening until 2022 or later. I don't see any team trading a 2022 or later 1st round picks for a couple years at least.

Quote
As Adam Silver made waves by announcing at Tuesday's board of governors meetings in Las Vegas that the NBA is ready to make changes to its age limit, teams have been told privately by league officials not to expect that to actually happen prior to the 2022 NBA draft.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24087675/nba-summer-league-rookies-buzz-news-rumors-more
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 13, 2018, 11:43:40 PM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems unwise to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.

I was using a 3-year stretch value to get it off the books before the repeater penalties kick in.

Ultimately, your objection comes down to whether you favor keeping Morris over keeping Smart, which is fair.  I don't have strong opinion either way.   Both seem likely to have reduced roles this coming year, barring injury.

Well, ultimately your objection

Nene's got two seasons left on his contract, so if you waive-and-stretch his contract the cap hit is spread out over the next five seasons, bringing you into repeater territory.

Well, I was thinking of a post-Sept 1 stretch, which would be a 3-year stretch.

From Larry Coon's CBA FAQ:
Quote
If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year3.

But my math is wrong because the current year would still be at the full 3.65M and only the final year would be stretched over the 3 years.  Thus instead of over 3M of additional room under the tax being cleared up, only 1.8M would be cleared up.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 14, 2018, 01:36:35 AM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems unwise to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.

I was using a 3-year stretch value to get it off the books before the repeater penalties kick in.

Ultimately, your objection comes down to whether you favor keeping Morris over keeping Smart, which is fair.  I don't have strong opinion either way.   Both seem likely to have reduced roles this coming year, barring injury.

Well, ultimately your objection

Nene's got two seasons left on his contract, so if you waive-and-stretch his contract the cap hit is spread out over the next five seasons, bringing you into repeater territory.

Well, I was thinking of a post-Sept 1 stretch, which would be a 3-year stretch.

From Larry Coon's CBA FAQ:
Quote
If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year3.

But my math is wrong because the current year would still be at the full 3.65M and only the final year would be stretched over the 3 years.  Thus instead of over 3M of additional room under the tax being cleared up, only 1.8M would be cleared up.
So, what you are is that all these moves by Brooklyn, probably weren't to get Smart but to amass future draft assets....as I said pages ago?  Because a lot of parts have moved around and the Nets are really no closer to being able to give Smart a big offer as they were a week or two ago.

Simply, the Nets made the trade they did to collect draft picks. Thats really it. No Smart involved.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: cman88 on July 14, 2018, 10:41:38 AM
this situation is pretty simple here. Smart wants 17million$ or so a year, celtics say you are worth 10-12million$ go out and see if you are worth 17million$

Smart goes out there and he realizes the celtics assessment of his worth in the market is more accurate than his own. but feels insulted because they should "overpay!" for what he has given them so wont listen to their contacts of "our offer is still valid" and is holding out hope that some team will come along and offer him what he wants.

But the realistic situation is that no team in their right mind who doesnt feel they are 1-2 pieces away is going to sign smart that kind of $$ to be a major starter on their team. He cant shoot...unless you have him on the floor with other good starters you are going to lose alot of games as smart jacks up 10 horrible 3 pointers and shoots 30% for all he gives you on the other end.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 14, 2018, 11:10:26 PM
How does this trade sound (suggested by a friend of mine after dinner last night):

BOS sends Morris (5.375M) to HOU
HOU sends Nene (3.651M, 3.825M) to BOS
Low-level draft picks get sprinkled appropriately on the deal to make it work.

Why HOU does it:  To get rid of Nene and to replace some of what Ariza and a Moute' took out the door.  I.E., HOU needs a 'big wing'.

Why BOS does it:  BOS then stretches/waives Nene' out, reducing his cost to 2.49, saving just over 3M net over Morris' contract.   This Allows them to pay Smart at a starting salary of as much as 11M without going over.   If they waive Nader before the end of this month, they can clear another ~900K.  Though they may want to use that for Bird.

Morris will likely see his minutes squeezed given the return of Howard and the continued development of Jaylen, Jayson, Theis, Yabusele and Semi.   So Houston would be a good fit for him since they have a need at his position.

Seems fairly straightforward.  Am I missing some obstacle?

Of course, Danny would only do this if he has to match an offer for Smart below the numbers I indicated.  If Smart comes back and signs the QO, then this wouldn't happen.  And if Smart comes back with a large offer sheet from say, SAC, for 14M, then this probably wouldn't happen either.

So Danny will wait before pulling the trigger.

Given that Boston's going to eventually wind up in repeater tax territory, it seems unwise to be paying for Nene over the next five years. That $7.5ish million is going to wind up awfully expensive over time. Plus, I'm pretty partial to Morris and keeping his Bird Rights heading into another crowded FA market in 2019 isn't a bad thing for an over-the-cap team.

I was using a 3-year stretch value to get it off the books before the repeater penalties kick in.

Ultimately, your objection comes down to whether you favor keeping Morris over keeping Smart, which is fair.  I don't have strong opinion either way.   Both seem likely to have reduced roles this coming year, barring injury.

Well, ultimately your objection

Nene's got two seasons left on his contract, so if you waive-and-stretch his contract the cap hit is spread out over the next five seasons, bringing you into repeater territory.

Well, I was thinking of a post-Sept 1 stretch, which would be a 3-year stretch.

From Larry Coon's CBA FAQ:
Quote
If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year3.

But my math is wrong because the current year would still be at the full 3.65M and only the final year would be stretched over the 3 years.  Thus instead of over 3M of additional room under the tax being cleared up, only 1.8M would be cleared up.
So, what you are is that all these moves by Brooklyn, probably weren't to get Smart but to amass future draft assets....as I said pages ago?  Because a lot of parts have moved around and the Nets are really no closer to being able to give Smart a big offer as they were a week or two ago.

Simply, the Nets made the trade they did to collect draft picks. Thats really it. No Smart involved.

Umm... none of my proposal here (which looks less appealing now) had anything to do with the Nets.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 15, 2018, 07:08:51 AM
Quote
this situation is pretty simple here. Smart wants 17million$ or so a year, celtics say you are worth 10-12million$ go out and see if you are worth 17million$


I would wager the QO is less, about 6-8 range.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 15, 2018, 11:13:10 AM
Quote
this situation is pretty simple here. Smart wants 17million$ or so a year, celtics say you are worth 10-12million$ go out and see if you are worth 17million$


I would wager the QO is less, about 6-8 range.
$6.1 million
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 15, 2018, 11:41:33 AM
Quote
$6.1 million

Thanks, Tp to you.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: trickybilly on July 16, 2018, 03:09:55 AM
Two things:

Only Dallas, Atlanta, and Sac have enough cap room to outbid the QO. Only Sac have enough to give Smart a deal above 12million

Question: Can we split off some of the MLE and add it to the QO dollar amount and sign Smart to a 1 year deal? Then
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: kraidstar on July 16, 2018, 03:59:33 AM
Two things:

Only Dallas, Atlanta, and Sac have enough cap room to outbid the QO. Only Sac have enough to give Smart a deal above 12million

Question: Can we split off some of the MLE and add it to the QO dollar amount and sign Smart to a 1 year deal? Then

We wouldn't need the MLE because we have Smart's Bird Rights, as he's been here for 3 years or more. We can sign him to any amount up to the max at any length up to 5 years. So we could feasibly sign him to a one-year, $9M deal to stay under the cap and keep him happy then give him a longer and more lucrative deal next offseason.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on July 16, 2018, 05:45:58 PM
If Smart is truly going to take the QO so he can test the market next summer but otherwise wants to stay in Boston, I think the idea of a 2 year deal makes more sense.

If he thinks he's worth $16 mil and will take the QO to prove it, that would come to $22 mil over two years. So a 2-year deal at $11 mil per year gives him the same pay out over those seasons but a lot more guaranteed money and is probably pretty close to what the Celtics are offering on a longer term deal.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 17, 2018, 03:52:21 PM
Are we in trouble now that Bjelica backed out on Philly and they have a MLE available?

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Roy H. on July 17, 2018, 03:53:25 PM
Are we in trouble now that Bjelica backed out on Philly and they have a MLE available?

No. We would match an MLE deal in a second.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 17, 2018, 03:54:57 PM
Are we in trouble now that Bjelica backed out on Philly and they have a MLE available?

No. We would match an MLE deal in a second.

They also only have their room exception available, which at $4.45 for two years million is not going to be at all attractive to Smart.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 17, 2018, 03:59:20 PM
Are we in trouble now that Bjelica backed out on Philly and they have a MLE available?

No. We would match an MLE deal in a second.

They also only have their room exception available, which at $4.45 for two years million is not going to be at all attractive to Smart.


That makes me feel better. Thanks.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: SHAQATTACK on July 17, 2018, 04:54:35 PM
they wohld not give Smart 17 million , if all the cap room in the world was available
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: makaveli on July 18, 2018, 06:46:57 AM
I can see sac town offering him jabari parker type of a deal 2 year 34 mil with TO. Hope he chooses winning and waiting for one more year
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 06:52:24 AM
I can see sac town offering him jabari parker type of a deal 2 year 34 mil with TO. Hope he chooses winning and waiting for one more year

The deal Parker signed is not allowable while Smart is a restricted free agent. That’s why Milwaukee did Parker a favor and made him an unrestricted free agent before he signed with Chicago.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: goCeltics on July 18, 2018, 07:29:29 AM
a ~10 million dollar salary next year would be useful in an Anthony Davis deal, I starting to think a 3 year 30-33 million dollar deal with 3rd year somewhat Non guaranteed with be a valuable trade chip
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: makaveli on July 18, 2018, 09:43:17 AM
I can see sac town offering him jabari parker type of a deal 2 year 34 mil with TO. Hope he chooses winning and waiting for one more year

The deal Parker signed is not allowable while Smart is a restricted free agent. That’s why Milwaukee did Parker a favor and made him an unrestricted free agent before he signed with Chicago.

Wow, there is like so much to know about these cap/trade/FA things

TP
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: footey on July 18, 2018, 09:50:28 AM
Is Philly out of cap space?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: fairweatherfan on July 18, 2018, 11:57:56 AM
Woj sez:

Quote
Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817)

Looks like we might be locking down Marcus for awhile. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 12:05:56 PM
Woj sez:

Quote
Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817)

Looks like we might be locking down Marcus for awhile.

Yes please.  Also, go for 5 years Danny.

The timing of this in relation to the Kawhi deal makes me wonder whether either or both sides of Smart and the Celtics were exploring a S&T with San Antonio.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 18, 2018, 12:09:04 PM
Woj sez:

Quote
Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817)

Looks like we might be locking down Marcus for awhile.
Based on the timing I wonder if Danny had the old extension offer tabled until Kawhi situation was settled.

Could also just be a coincidence as in the past few days all the cap room has pretty much officially gone away and Vegas is now done.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 18, 2018, 12:09:58 PM
Want Smart back. But also want enough to resign Kyrie and Rozier next season as well as maybe Al.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 18, 2018, 12:10:38 PM
Woj sez:

Quote
Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817)

Looks like we might be locking down Marcus for awhile.
Based on the timing I wonder if Danny had the old extension offer tabled until Kawhi situation was settled.

Could also just be a coincidence as in the past few days all the cap room has pretty much officially gone away and Vegas is now done.

Think this is correct.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 12:12:25 PM
Woj sez:

Quote
Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817)

Looks like we might be locking down Marcus for awhile.
Based on the timing I wonder if Danny had the old extension offer tabled until Kawhi situation was settled.

Could also just be a coincidence as in the past few days all the cap room has pretty much officially gone away and Vegas is now done.

It's possible. Or maybe Smart as you said worked the rounds at Vegas with his agent and realized the C's were going to have the best offer. There's nothing like staring at August without a contract in hand to bring players to the table..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 18, 2018, 12:13:44 PM
Woj sez:

Quote
Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1019611941780770817)

Looks like we might be locking down Marcus for awhile.

Yes please.  Also, go for 5 years Danny.

The timing of this in relation to the Kawhi deal makes me wonder whether either or both sides of Smart and the Celtics were exploring a S&T with San Antonio.

Sounds like it. 5 years at 50 million would be in the right range.

San Antonio liked Derozan/Poetl/1st better than Smart/Yabu/Morris/Kings pick. Pop wanted to win now.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 12:14:51 PM
Want Smart back. But also want enough to resign Kyrie and Rozier next season as well as maybe Al.

I think Al is going to have to wait until 2020 to get another deal. And I'm not 100% sure it will be with the C's. Something tells me we're going to ride the Kyrie/Hayward/Al horse for 2-3 years before handing the keys over to Rozier/Tatum/Brown whomever else develops in that time. Smart, Semi etc off the bench
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: green_bballers13 on July 18, 2018, 12:16:48 PM
Want Smart back. But also want enough to resign Kyrie and Rozier next season as well as maybe Al.

I think Al is going to have to wait until 2020 to get another deal. And I'm not 100% sure it will be with the C's. Something tells me we're going to ride the Kyrie/Hayward/Al horse for 2-3 years before handing the keys over to Rozier/Tatum/Brown whomever else develops in that time. Smart, Semi etc off the bench

I really hope Kyrie is the future PG of the Celtics and not Terry Rozier. I like Terry, but he's not top 5 pg or a top 15 overall player.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 12:19:02 PM
Want Smart back. But also want enough to resign Kyrie and Rozier next season as well as maybe Al.

I think Al is going to have to wait until 2020 to get another deal. And I'm not 100% sure it will be with the C's. Something tells me we're going to ride the Kyrie/Hayward/Al horse for 2-3 years before handing the keys over to Rozier/Tatum/Brown whomever else develops in that time. Smart, Semi etc off the bench

I really hope Kyrie is the future PG of the Celtics and not Terry Rozier. I like Terry, but he's not top 5 pg or a top 15 overall player.

Rozier is actually becoming an excellent PG. Maybe not elite like Kyrie but if you're making Kyrie the centerpiece of your team the team will become hugely expensive in 2-3 years as Brown/Tatum/2019 picks etc come off their rookie deals. Could you live with a very good PG like Rozier and make Tatum the franchise cornerstone? Tough decisions ahead..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 12:29:12 PM
Want Smart back. But also want enough to resign Kyrie and Rozier next season as well as maybe Al.

I think Al is going to have to wait until 2020 to get another deal. And I'm not 100% sure it will be with the C's. Something tells me we're going to ride the Kyrie/Hayward/Al horse for 2-3 years before handing the keys over to Rozier/Tatum/Brown whomever else develops in that time. Smart, Semi etc off the bench

I really hope Kyrie is the future PG of the Celtics and not Terry Rozier. I like Terry, but he's not top 5 pg or a top 15 overall player.

Rozier is actually becoming an excellent PG. Maybe not elite like Kyrie but if you're making Kyrie the centerpiece of your team the team will become hugely expensive in 2-3 years as Brown/Tatum/2019 picks etc come off their rookie deals. Could you live with a very good PG like Rozier and make Tatum the franchise cornerstone? Tough decisions ahead..

If you’re making Kyrie a centerpiece of you’re team your competing for titles, and that’s worth the extra dollars.

It’s not impossible for the Celtics to avoid the tax next year by maxing Kyrie if Horford opts out and takes long term deal that averages in the $20-22 million range, which is not unreasonable for his age.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 12:30:46 PM
Want Smart back. But also want enough to resign Kyrie and Rozier next season as well as maybe Al.


I think Al is going to have to wait until 2020 to get another deal. And I'm not 100% sure it will be with the C's. Something tells me we're going to ride the Kyrie/Hayward/Al horse for 2-3 years before handing the keys over to Rozier/Tatum/Brown whomever else develops in that time. Smart, Semi etc off the bench

I really hope Kyrie is the future PG of the Celtics and not Terry Rozier. I like Terry, but he's not top 5 pg or a top 15 overall player.

Rozier is actually becoming an excellent PG. Maybe not elite like Kyrie but if you're making Kyrie the centerpiece of your team the team will become hugely expensive in 2-3 years as Brown/Tatum/2019 picks etc come off their rookie deals. Could you live with a very good PG like Rozier and make Tatum the franchise cornerstone? Tough decisions ahead..

If you’re making Kyrie a centerpiece of you’re team your competing for titles, and that’s worth the extra dollars.

It’s not impossible for the Celtics to avoid the tax next year by maxing Kyrie if Horford opts out and takes long term deal that averages in the $20-22 million range, which is not unreasonable for his age.

Do you see Al opting out of $30mm? Seems not in his interest to do so to say the least
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 18, 2018, 12:30:48 PM
Want Smart back. But also want enough to resign Kyrie and Rozier next season as well as maybe Al.

I think Al is going to have to wait until 2020 to get another deal. And I'm not 100% sure it will be with the C's. Something tells me we're going to ride the Kyrie/Hayward/Al horse for 2-3 years before handing the keys over to Rozier/Tatum/Brown whomever else develops in that time. Smart, Semi etc off the bench
I think he's going to exercise his option and sign one last big deal, might be with the C's maybe not.

Hopefully the C's and his agent have already had some early conversations about it.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 18, 2018, 12:33:15 PM
Do you see Al opting out of $30mm? Seems not in his interest to do so to say the least
There will never be a better time for him to get another contract than next year.

Lots and lots of cap room around the league and he's a year younger than if he waits another season.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Pucaccia on July 18, 2018, 12:36:18 PM
If the Celtics wrap up Smart for 4 years for what woj is reporting.  this is great news and a steal for the Celtics.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 12:40:04 PM
Do you see Al opting out of $30mm? Seems not in his interest to do so to say the least
There will never be a better time for him to get another contract than next year.

Lots and lots of cap room around the league and he's a year younger than if he waits another season.

Can't remember a single instance of a player opting out of $30mm, But hey there's a first time for everything.. 8)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 18, 2018, 12:40:25 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 18, 2018, 12:44:51 PM
Do you see Al opting out of $30mm? Seems not in his interest to do so to say the least
There will never be a better time for him to get another contract than next year.

Lots and lots of cap room around the league and he's a year younger than if he waits another season.

Can't remember a single instance of a player opting out of $30mm, But hey there's a first time for everything.. 8)

Here are two possible scenarios (of many):

Opts-in to 30 million, and then signs a 4 year, 40 million dollar contract to fit his production as a role player going forward. Over 5 years, he earns 70 million.

Opts-out of 30 million, and then signs 5 year, 80 million dollar contract moving forward. Over 5 years, he earns 80 million.

Opting out of immediate money to sign a longer-term contract is the only way it makes financial sense for Horford, unless he wants to do Boston a favor (ala David West to the Spurs a few years ago).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 12:47:03 PM
Do you see Al opting out of $30mm? Seems not in his interest to do so to say the least
There will never be a better time for him to get another contract than next year.

Lots and lots of cap room around the league and he's a year younger than if he waits another season.

Can't remember a single instance of a player opting out of $30mm, But hey there's a first time for everything.. 8)

Here are two possible scenarios (of many):

Opts-in to 30 million, and then signs a 4 year, 40 million dollar contract to fit his production as a role player going forward. Over 5 years, he earns 70 million.

Opts-out of 30 million, and then signs 5 year, 80 million dollar contract moving forward. Over 5 years, he earns 80 million.

Opting out of immediate money to sign a longer-term contract is the only way it makes financial sense for Horford, unless he wants to do Boston a favor (ala David West to the Spurs a few years ago).

Well we'd have to decide he's worth paying $16mm per until he's 38 lol. I wouldn't.

Best thing for Al is to take the $30mm and then sign for $20mm per for 2 more years while there's still a market for him..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 18, 2018, 12:48:14 PM
This is a compromise between what the market was and what Smart wants. It's an insurance policy for what happens in next year's FA with Irving and Rozier.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 18, 2018, 12:50:32 PM
Do you see Al opting out of $30mm? Seems not in his interest to do so to say the least
There will never be a better time for him to get another contract than next year.

Lots and lots of cap room around the league and he's a year younger than if he waits another season.

Can't remember a single instance of a player opting out of $30mm, But hey there's a first time for everything.. 8)

Here are two possible scenarios (of many):

Opts-in to 30 million, and then signs a 4 year, 40 million dollar contract to fit his production as a role player going forward. Over 5 years, he earns 70 million.

Opts-out of 30 million, and then signs 5 year, 80 million dollar contract moving forward. Over 5 years, he earns 80 million.

Opting out of immediate money to sign a longer-term contract is the only way it makes financial sense for Horford, unless he wants to do Boston a favor (ala David West to the Spurs a few years ago).

Well we'd have to decide he's worth paying $16mm per until he's 38 lol. I wouldn't.

Best thing for Al is to take the $30mm and then sign for $20mm per for 2 more years while there's still a market for him..

It'd be a similar contract to the one Iggy got from GSW.

There's a lot of scenarios that could play out, including the one you mentioned. I'm just saying there is a possible way he could want to opt-out.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 12:56:08 PM
Want Smart back. But also want enough to resign Kyrie and Rozier next season as well as maybe Al.

I think Al is going to have to wait until 2020 to get another deal. And I'm not 100% sure it will be with the C's. Something tells me we're going to ride the Kyrie/Hayward/Al horse for 2-3 years before handing the keys over to Rozier/Tatum/Brown whomever else develops in that time. Smart, Semi etc off the bench

I really hope Kyrie is the future PG of the Celtics and not Terry Rozier. I like Terry, but he's not top 5 pg or a top 15 overall player.

Rozier is actually becoming an excellent PG. Maybe not elite like Kyrie but if you're making Kyrie the centerpiece of your team the team will become hugely expensive in 2-3 years as Brown/Tatum/2019 picks etc come off their rookie deals. Could you live with a very good PG like Rozier and make Tatum the franchise cornerstone? Tough decisions ahead..

If you’re making Kyrie a centerpiece of you’re team your competing for titles, and that’s worth the extra dollars.

It’s not impossible for the Celtics to avoid the tax next year by maxing Kyrie if Horford opts out and takes long term deal that averages in the $20-22 million range, which is not unreasonable for his age.

I fully expect Kyrie to be resigned for 2 years at least after this year. Question is what happens when Kyrie is hitting 29 and Tatum/Brown/Rozier etc are entering their primes and w/ commiserate paydays?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 12:56:50 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: liam on July 18, 2018, 01:00:33 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

Isn't Morris an expiring?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 01:01:56 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

Isn't Morris an expiring?

True, maybe they just waive him..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: jambr380 on July 18, 2018, 01:08:48 PM
I don’t think I would be overly satisfied  with a $50M/4 yr deal for Smart, but I am probably in the minority; was hoping to wrap him up for around $10M/yr or have him just take the QO.

There are worse things in the world and Smart is a good player, but his ceiling seems pretty well established at this point. I guess that means we are choosing Smart over Rozier (for the future). Also, a new contract for Smart this year probably means Morris is on the move and no Bird signing.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: trickybilly on July 18, 2018, 01:12:26 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

No. Nader can be waived to save around 1 mill.

Morris will need to be moved for a late second rounder. Mook, bro, forgive me for saying that. Go win a ring with a West team... You've been stellar... Dude deserves a ring if he keeps doing what he do.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 01:15:40 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

No. Nader can be waived to save around 1 mill.

Morris will need to be moved for a late second rounder. Mook, bro, forgive me for saying that. Go win a ring with a West team... You've been stellar... Dude deserves a ring if he keeps doing what he do.

Man, the guy is worth more than a second rounder lol.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 01:17:30 PM
I don’t think I would be overly satisfied  with a $50M/4 yr deal for Smart, but I am probably in the minority; was hoping to wrap him up for around $10M/yr or have him just take the QO.

There are worse things in the world and Smart is a good player, but his ceiling seems pretty well established at this point. I guess that means we are choosing Smart over Rozier (for the future). Also, a new contract for Smart this year probably means Morris is on the move and no Bird signing.

I think they will also resign Rozier frankly. No reason to let him just walk..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Phantom255x on July 18, 2018, 01:18:41 PM
If we keep Smart at 4 years, between 46-50M total, that would be a BEAUTIFUL deal!  ;D

Also, his contract could help in the future if we do trade for another star (since his contract would be between 11.5-13M/Year). We didn't have a contract like that so a deal for Kawhi or another star was really complicated this summer (unless we were willing to trade a max player OR Brown+Tatum both).

As for the tax, I trust Ainge and the front office to find a way!  8)

My original prediction/hope was 4/44M or 4/48M. Looks like it'll happen. There was the risk a team like SAC or CHI could overpay him this summer, or he takes the QO, does well and gets a ton elsewhere next summer. Locking him up for 3-4 years is nice. I feel like you need someone like Smart to win a championship.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 18, 2018, 01:18:56 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

Isn't Morris an expiring?

True, maybe they just waive him..
Waiving a player does not remove his salary from the books.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: colincb on July 18, 2018, 01:23:39 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

No. Nader can be waived to save around 1 mill.

Morris will need to be moved for a late second rounder. Mook, bro, forgive me for saying that. Go win a ring with a West team... You've been stellar... Dude deserves a ring if he keeps doing what he do.

Stretching Nader's dead money won't be enough.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 01:25:15 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

Isn't Morris an expiring?

True, maybe they just waive him..
Waiving a player does not remove his salary from the books.

Yeah I realized that. Sigh
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: liam on July 18, 2018, 01:26:44 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

Isn't Morris an expiring?

True, maybe they just waive him..
Waiving a player does not remove his salary from the books.

Yeah I realized that. Sigh

Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Fafnir on July 18, 2018, 01:33:40 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Ed Hollison on July 18, 2018, 01:38:41 PM
Next step should be to trade Rozier, preferably for a 1st rounder in 2020 (the potential "double draft"). You're about to lock up your other back-up PG, you've got other ballhandlers at other positions (especially Hayward at SF), and your cap will never allow you to re-sign Rozier and stay out of the repeater tax without dumping one of your elite players.

Only reason Danny doesn't do this is if he thinks the team has a legit chance to win it all this year, and one year of a solid backup PG in Rozier is more valuable than that future 1st. (I think they do have a chance at a title this year, but I'd say that future first, if you can get it, is still worth the last year of Rozier's rookie contract.)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 01:40:31 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: The Oracle on July 18, 2018, 01:52:56 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million. 
There is absolutely no rush anyway as the C's have 6 months or so to figure out the best course of action.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: footey on July 18, 2018, 01:55:27 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million. 
There is absolutely no rush anyway as the C's have 6 months or so to figure out the best course of action.

Reading Smith report, sounds like Celtics want to keep Morris this season. Like his nasty streak.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: footey on July 18, 2018, 01:57:40 PM
Next step should be to trade Rozier, preferably for a 1st rounder in 2020 (the potential "double draft"). You're about to lock up your other back-up PG, you've got other ballhandlers at other positions (especially Hayward at SF), and your cap will never allow you to re-sign Rozier and stay out of the repeater tax without dumping one of your elite players.

Only reason Danny doesn't do this is if he thinks the team has a legit chance to win it all this year, and one year of a solid backup PG in Rozier is more valuable than that future 1st. (I think they do have a chance at a title this year, but I'd say that future first, if you can get it, is still worth the last year of Rozier's rookie contract.)

Doubt they trade Rozier until they get Kyrie to re-sign.  Need his insurance. Bringing back Smart insufficient.

If Kyrie bolts, look for Celtics to target a PG with the SAC pick.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 02:21:54 PM
Next step should be to trade Rozier, preferably for a 1st rounder in 2020 (the potential "double draft"). You're about to lock up your other back-up PG, you've got other ballhandlers at other positions (especially Hayward at SF), and your cap will never allow you to re-sign Rozier and stay out of the repeater tax without dumping one of your elite players.

Only reason Danny doesn't do this is if he thinks the team has a legit chance to win it all this year, and one year of a solid backup PG in Rozier is more valuable than that future 1st. (I think they do have a chance at a title this year, but I'd say that future first, if you can get it, is still worth the last year of Rozier's rookie contract.)

Doubt they trade Rozier until they get Kyrie to re-sign.  Need his insurance. Bringing back Smart insufficient.

If Kyrie bolts, look for Celtics to target a PG with the SAC pick.

If Kyrie bolts, you simply give the keys to Rozier. You're not going to get anyone better in a trade or the draft (2019 draft is very weak at PG anyway). Rozier is criminally underrated here, he's just a throw-in to every trade proposal known to man. He's already a very good PG in his 3rd year. Just don't get the "Let's just toss up Rozier to get whatever marginal bench  player we can get"...
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: PAOBoston on July 18, 2018, 02:28:54 PM
4 years for $48-50 mil? I'd be okay with that. Fair deal imo. Gives the C's a nice mid size contract to trade as well if need be.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Big333223 on July 18, 2018, 02:34:37 PM
Rewind 18 months when people were nervous about Smart wanting a $20 mil a year contract, getting his for less than $13 mil a year is nice. I think locking up his leadership for 4 years is a good idea and I'm continuing to cling to my idea that some long term stability will help his shooting.

As for the rest of the roster, I think this is a championship roster. Make a run at it and figure out the rest later.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: CelticSooner on July 18, 2018, 02:36:01 PM
This what I was hoping to see. I’d say that’s fair value for his services. I thought he’d just sign the QO this late in the game. Good news  8)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: droopdog7 on July 18, 2018, 02:39:39 PM
Want Smart back. But also want enough to resign Kyrie and Rozier next season as well as maybe Al.
Willing to sacrifice rozier if we need to.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: SHAQATTACK on July 18, 2018, 02:39:52 PM
rather have Smart at 48 than ET at 70
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Jvalin on July 18, 2018, 02:40:55 PM
Next step should be to trade Rozier, preferably for a 1st rounder in 2020 (the potential "double draft"). You're about to lock up your other back-up PG, you've got other ballhandlers at other positions (especially Hayward at SF), and your cap will never allow you to re-sign Rozier and stay out of the repeater tax without dumping one of your elite players.

Only reason Danny doesn't do this is if he thinks the team has a legit chance to win it all this year, and one year of a solid backup PG in Rozier is more valuable than that future 1st. (I think they do have a chance at a title this year, but I'd say that future first, if you can get it, is still worth the last year of Rozier's rookie contract.)

Doubt they trade Rozier until they get Kyrie to re-sign.  Need his insurance. Bringing back Smart insufficient.

If Kyrie bolts, look for Celtics to target a PG with the SAC pick.
Problem is, the draft is in June and free agency starts on July 1st. By the time Kyrie signs his new contract, we will have already used the Sac pick.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 18, 2018, 02:42:53 PM
1. I really believe Kyrie stays
2. That Kings pick is really nice to have
3. That Memphis pick is Nice to have
4. Having a young core of Tatum and Brown

Smart adds some teeth to the team.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: droopdog7 on July 18, 2018, 02:48:12 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.
I agree that morris is the likeliest target IF the team wants to stay under the tax line this year.  And while the team may want to keep Morris, would not be surprised if he became a malcontent and basically asked out himself. 

Trade exceptions would be an option but not sure which team has them?  As for trading to a team with space, it's Sac and who else? 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 02:59:28 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.
I agree that morris is the likeliest target IF the team wants to stay under the tax line this year.  And while the team may want to keep Morris, would not be surprised if he became a malcontent and basically asked out himself. 

Trade exceptions would be an option but not sure which team has them?  As for trading to a team with space, it's Sac and who else?

Dallas has the space if they renounce Yogi Ferrell.  I think the Hawks also have enough space, but I was away last week and missed some things.  Cavs, Blazers, Nuggets, and Hornets all have trade exceptions, and maybe a couple others that I’m forgetting.  Nuggets are conveniently $5.5 million under the tax and competing.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 03:12:42 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.
I agree that morris is the likeliest target IF the team wants to stay under the tax line this year.  And while the team may want to keep Morris, would not be surprised if he became a malcontent and basically asked out himself. 

Trade exceptions would be an option but not sure which team has them?  As for trading to a team with space, it's Sac and who else?

Minutes for Mook will be tough to come by. He might be a short-timer here..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: CelticSooner on July 18, 2018, 03:21:08 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.
I agree that morris is the likeliest target IF the team wants to stay under the tax line this year.  And while the team may want to keep Morris, would not be surprised if he became a malcontent and basically asked out himself. 

Trade exceptions would be an option but not sure which team has them?  As for trading to a team with space, it's Sac and who else?

Minutes for Mook will be tough to come by. He might be a short-timer here..

It was a short term move regardless. If things go as planned he’ll be a luxury that can be traded to avoid the luxury tax for one more year.

I still think Rozier is the odd man out though. Ainge doesn’t let guys walk if they have any kind of trade value which he does.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 18, 2018, 03:35:13 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Jiri Welsch on July 18, 2018, 03:38:23 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

I hear you on Yab. The only counterpoint would be that he’s cost effective for a few more years, and might be more valuable as time goes along as a trade chip or bench guy that can fill Morris’s role.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: kraidstar on July 18, 2018, 03:51:20 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

Only $450K of Nader's 2018/2019 salary is guaranteed, so would we even need to stretch that? Can we stretch it if we decline his team option?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: droopdog7 on July 18, 2018, 03:56:41 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.
Don't disagree that mook could be valuable.  But as I mentioned, I also think he may not want to be here if the playing time is not there.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 18, 2018, 03:56:59 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

Only $450K of Nader's 2018/2019 salary is guaranteed, so would we even need to stretch that? Can we stretch it if we decline his team option?

Demetrius Jackson was stretched  :D
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Tr1boy on July 18, 2018, 03:58:40 PM
what does this deal mean for cap situation next season and how much Irving can get?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 04:00:58 PM
what does this deal mean for cap situation next season and how much Irving can get?

These questions are best asked after a new deal is signed.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: droopdog7 on July 18, 2018, 04:15:43 PM
what does this deal mean for cap situation next season and how much Irving can get?

These questions are best asked after a new deal is signed.
I'm sure Kyrie will get a max offer regardless.  If this deal happens, probably means more for rozier, morris, and others on the fringes.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 04:26:45 PM
what does this deal mean for cap situation next season and how much Irving can get?

These questions are best asked after a new deal is signed.
I'm sure Kyrie will get a max offer regardless.  If this deal happens, probably means more for rozier, morris, and others on the fringes.

Yeah, for some reason I read Rozier and not Kyrie when responding to his question.  Barring something unlikely, the Celtics will give Kyrie a max offer.  Whether he accepts that offer or not will probably affect Rozier the most.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 18, 2018, 04:36:43 PM
what does this deal mean for cap situation next season and how much Irving can get?

These questions are best asked after a new deal is signed.
I'm sure Kyrie will get a max offer regardless.  If this deal happens, probably means more for rozier, morris, and others on the fringes.

Yeah, for some reason I read Rozier and not Kyrie when responding to his question.  Barring something unlikely, the Celtics will give Kyrie a max offer.  Whether he accepts that offer or not will probably affect Rozier the most.

The length of Kyrie's commitment will also play a role in what they do with Terry. If he just re-ups for a couple of years, Terry will also be retained. Or say 4-5 years, they might explore S&Ts.
Good PG's take so much time to develop properly, best thing is to keep Rozier..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Ilikesports17 on July 18, 2018, 05:00:12 PM
Terrific news!

glad to have our emotional leader back.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: TheSundanceKid on July 18, 2018, 05:23:01 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 05:29:12 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

Oh, I think Morris would absolutely be in the rotation in the playoffs.  He’s replaceable, yes, but he’d be at worst the 9th man in a 9-man rotation, and maybe the 6th or 7th man depending on matchups.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 18, 2018, 05:51:17 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

I don’t think so.

Maybe not 30mpg but he would definitely get time and he’s the type that can bang a few threes, couple mid-rangers and just like that a double-digit run off the bench. He can play pretty good defense and it can’t hurt to have extra depth.

What guys have panned out for us off the buyout scrap heap? Troy Murphy? Greg Monroe? Stephon Marbury? Nopeeee.

Plus, we may not be able to be buyers come February/March if we want to stay under the tax, so what’s he point of trading Morris to get under it just to hopefully find someone as good and go over?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Roy H. on July 18, 2018, 05:56:05 PM
Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 18, 2018, 06:01:14 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

Morris is the first big swingman off the bench if everyone's healthy. If you dump him Semi is basically the only reserve swingman capable of filling the 3/4 spot, and I'm not at all comfortable with Semi being primary option off the bench.

Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

I assume by Marcus you mean Morris and not Smart? Worse, Beasley doesn't defend at anywhere near the level of Morris, he'd get targeted over and over by the Warriors.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 18, 2018, 06:05:16 PM
Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

If both scenarios keep us under the tax, I’d stick with Morris.

Beasley is the more volatile scorer, but I would trust Morris’ defense more. He’s comfortable now with his role and our system, whereas Beasley may not fit.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 18, 2018, 06:10:16 PM
what does this deal mean for cap situation next season and how much Irving can get?

These questions are best asked after a new deal is signed.
I'm sure Kyrie will get a max offer regardless.  If this deal happens, probably means more for rozier, morris, and others on the fringes.

Yeah, for some reason I read Rozier and not Kyrie when responding to his question.  Barring something unlikely, the Celtics will give Kyrie a max offer.  Whether he accepts that offer or not will probably affect Rozier the most.

I think Ainge hedges and holds onto Rozier as insurance in case Irving bolts. If that’s the case, we resign Terry at a pretty high number.

If Irving resigns at the max, we have to let Terry walk for nothing (unless we can facilitate a S&T, but those usually don’t come to fruition).

In an ideal world, since Smart is staying put, we would trade Terry for someone with more years left who can help us. But with Irving’s situation uncertain, we’ve got to keep TRIII.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Roy H. on July 18, 2018, 06:24:52 PM
Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

If both scenarios keep us under the tax, I’d stick with Morris.

Beasley is the more volatile scorer, but I would trust Morris’ defense more. He’s comfortable now with his role and our system, whereas Beasley may not fit.

Sorry, no, under the assumption that Morris keeps us over the tax but trading Morris and signing Beasley gets us under it.

I think they’re close enough that swapping them would make no meaningful difference.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 06:25:28 PM
Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

Worse.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 18, 2018, 06:39:49 PM
curious to see if there's a team or player option  :D
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Roy H. on July 18, 2018, 06:41:54 PM
Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

Worse.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Michael+Beasley&player_id1_select=Michael+Beasley&y1=2018&player_id1=beaslmi01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Marcus+Morris&player_id2_select=Marcus+Morris&y2=2018&player_id2=morrima03&idx=players

Significantly so? Enough of a difference to justify the repeater tax a year earlier?  I don’t think so.  I doubt having Morris over Beasley would result in even one additional win.

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: mmmmm on July 18, 2018, 06:43:25 PM
Looks as if something else has to happen to keep Cs out of the luxury tax besides Nader getting stretched if this report is true.

Maybe move Morris for an expiring?

No. Nader can be waived to save around 1 mill.

Morris will need to be moved for a late second rounder. Mook, bro, forgive me for saying that. Go win a ring with a West team... You've been stellar... Dude deserves a ring if he keeps doing what he do.

Man, the guy is worth more than a second rounder lol.

You aren't trading him for the 2nd rounder in this scenario.  You are trading him for the cap space.  In fact, in this sort of deal you are likely to need to _give_ a medium-quality pick to a team in order to take him.   And the 2nd rounder you get back is only for the paperwork required by the CBA and likely heavily protected such that it never actually conveys.

None of that is a statement about Mook's value.  It's a statement of how valuable the cap space can be.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: colincb on July 18, 2018, 06:50:13 PM
Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

If both scenarios keep us under the tax, I’d stick with Morris.

Beasley is the more volatile scorer, but I would trust Morris’ defense more. He’s comfortable now with his role and our system, whereas Beasley may not fit.

Sorry, no, under the assumption that Morris keeps us over the tax but trading Morris and signing Beasley gets us under it.

I think they’re close enough that swapping them would make no meaningful difference.


Morris is the better player, but Danny's not going over the tax line to keep him.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: TheSundanceKid on July 18, 2018, 07:17:05 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

Oh, I think Morris would absolutely be in the rotation in the playoffs.  He’s replaceable, yes, but he’d be at worst the 9th man in a 9-man rotation, and maybe the 6th or 7th man depending on matchups.

Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: TheSundanceKid on July 18, 2018, 07:24:32 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

I don’t think so.

Maybe not 30mpg but he would definitely get time and he’s the type that can bang a few threes, couple mid-rangers and just like that a double-digit run off the bench. He can play pretty good defense and it can’t hurt to have extra depth.

What guys have panned out for us off the buyout scrap heap? Troy Murphy? Greg Monroe? Stephon Marbury? Nopeeee.

Plus, we may not be able to be buyers come February/March if we want to stay under the tax, so what’s he point of trading Morris to get under it just to hopefully find someone as good and go over?

Other teams have found great success in the buyout market, our past failures shouldn't cloud that. For example Belinelli and Ilyasova worked out very well for Philly. Derek Fisher to the Thunder and Diaw to the Spurs are other examples.

And wasn't a certain PJ Brown a late season addition?

If you sign from the buyout pile we wouldn't be going back into the tax because that would be pointless. These guys tend to come on the vet min to chase a ring, not like the Monroe addition last year.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: nickagneta on July 18, 2018, 07:37:57 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

Oh, I think Morris would absolutely be in the rotation in the playoffs.  He’s replaceable, yes, but he’d be at worst the 9th man in a 9-man rotation, and maybe the 6th or 7th man depending on matchups.

Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.
If the deal for Smart ends up closer to $44-46 million over 4 years, the best way to get under the tax before the deadline would probably be to sendo ut a 2nd rounder with a couple million dollars and Yabusele. We don't have to be under the tax threshold until the end of the year. So we keep Morris, who I think is about the 2nd or 3rd most important guy off the bench, and dump the salary later using maybe Nader and Yabusele dumps as a way to keep Morris, a proven playoff performer and a guy that on any given day can win you a game by getting hot and dropping 27-30 off the bench.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 18, 2018, 07:39:20 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

I don’t think so.

Maybe not 30mpg but he would definitely get time and he’s the type that can bang a few threes, couple mid-rangers and just like that a double-digit run off the bench. He can play pretty good defense and it can’t hurt to have extra depth.

What guys have panned out for us off the buyout scrap heap? Troy Murphy? Greg Monroe? Stephon Marbury? Nopeeee.

Plus, we may not be able to be buyers come February/March if we want to stay under the tax, so what’s he point of trading Morris to get under it just to hopefully find someone as good and go over?

Other teams have found great success in the buyout market, our past failures shouldn't cloud that. For example Belinelli and Ilyasova worked out very well for Philly. Derek Fisher to the Thunder and Diaw to the Spurs are other examples.

And wasn't a certain PJ Brown a late season addition?


If you sign from the buyout pile we wouldn't be going back into the tax because that would be pointless. These guys tend to come on the vet min to chase a ring, not like the Monroe addition last year.

Definitely!! Also this little guy performed well in limited minutes:

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/71dNr2w_qe_YXZA53LEbdQ--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjAwO2g9MzYwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Yahoo/ept_sports_nba_experts-553825778-1276264081.jpg)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 18, 2018, 07:40:15 PM
.double post
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: KG Living Legend on July 18, 2018, 07:41:23 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

Oh, I think Morris would absolutely be in the rotation in the playoffs.  He’s replaceable, yes, but he’d be at worst the 9th man in a 9-man rotation, and maybe the 6th or 7th man depending on matchups.

Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.


 I hear ya, but the NBA is all about matchups. Some days he'll be the tenth man Off the Bench other games he'll be the 6th Man Off the Bench play 35 minutes and be one of the most important players in that game the NBA is crazy
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: The Oracle on July 18, 2018, 07:53:40 PM
Really curious as to the salary structure.  Sounds like they are considering a declining salary which would save on the tax in the future.  A flat structure at like $11.5 million per year should have some interest also as Smart plus Morris would then be able to bring back Butler as an example.  Still think incentives are an interesting possibility also.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 18, 2018, 08:06:59 PM
Trading Morris to someone and taking no salary back is doable...
Maybe, not much cap room out there currently.

I don't think its a priority though, if it was they'd have needed to salary dump faster. I think the team will keep Morris as a depth piece given their intention to contend this year.

Not much cap room, no, but there are also a few trade exceptions he’d fit into.  Depending where the final numbers are, moving Yabusele could also be sufficient.  A 4-year, $46 million deal could start at $10.3 million.

I don’t know why people are so quick to dump Morris just to stay below the tax line, he’s the type of player that can make a difference in the playoffs. The type that can score 20 off the bench in a Finals game to steal one.

If we can stretch Nader and move Yabu to stay under the tax, that’s definitely the way to go imo. I like Yabu and he was the what, 16th pick? But he’s buried in the depth chart and is still years away at best from being a regular contributor.

He wouldn't even be in the rotation in the playoffs if everyone is healthy. And honestly I think a more impactful weapon could be found in the buyout scrap heap in April. He is in no way essential to the team and is completely replacable

I don’t think so.

Maybe not 30mpg but he would definitely get time and he’s the type that can bang a few threes, couple mid-rangers and just like that a double-digit run off the bench. He can play pretty good defense and it can’t hurt to have extra depth.

What guys have panned out for us off the buyout scrap heap? Troy Murphy? Greg Monroe? Stephon Marbury? Nopeeee.

Plus, we may not be able to be buyers come February/March if we want to stay under the tax, so what’s he point of trading Morris to get under it just to hopefully find someone as good and go over?

Other teams have found great success in the buyout market, our past failures shouldn't cloud that. For example Belinelli and Ilyasova worked out very well for Philly. Derek Fisher to the Thunder and Diaw to the Spurs are other examples.

And wasn't a certain PJ Brown a late season addition?

If you sign from the buyout pile we wouldn't be going back into the tax because that would be pointless. These guys tend to come on the vet min to chase a ring, not like the Monroe addition last year.

PJ Brown was retired. Not a buyout. And if we continually miss on that front, why get rid of a solid contributor for a chance at something we have not excelled in?

If we are trading away Morris to resign Smart, it’s to stay under the tax. Since we have to actually pay these buyout guys with real money (and often bid against other teams, potentially using a portion of our MLE to win them - like we did without DPE for Monroe), we likely would go up above the tax line, unless we dump Nader and Yabu as well.

Obviously we won’t know what it looks like until we see what Smart is getting this upcoming season, but dumping Morris for a potential buyout candidate months down the road seems like a bad idea to me. With Hayward getting eased back into his regular rotation, Morris would be very useful early.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: Jvalin on July 18, 2018, 08:10:46 PM
Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.
The way I see it, there are plenty of scenarios where Morris ends up moving higher than 9th man.

How about if Smart re-signs on the cheap and we trade Rozier for a future pick?

How about if we play against a team with no old school bigs (in terms of size), hence Baynes has to adjust to a diminished role?

How about if we face an injury crisis once again?

Not to mention, Morris is probably the best LeBron stopper we have on the roster (obviously, we can only face LeBron in the Finals). I bet he can play good individual defense on Kawhi as well.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Cman on July 18, 2018, 08:43:55 PM
Great news. Looking forward to having him on board for a few title runs.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: tenn_smoothie on July 18, 2018, 09:12:12 PM
If we keep Smart at 4 years, between 46-50M total, that would be a BEAUTIFUL deal!
Locking him up for 3-4 years is nice.

I feel like you need someone like Smart to win a championship.

Exactly - Almost every title team has a guy like Marcus Smart in one form or another.

Paul Silas, Max & DJ, Bobby Jones, Rambis, Rodman, James Posey, Draymond Green .......
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 18, 2018, 09:24:30 PM
Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

Worse.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Michael+Beasley&player_id1_select=Michael+Beasley&y1=2018&player_id1=beaslmi01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Marcus+Morris&player_id2_select=Marcus+Morris&y2=2018&player_id2=morrima03&idx=players

Significantly so? Enough of a difference to justify the repeater tax a year earlier?  I don’t think so.  I doubt having Morris over Beasley would result in even one additional win.

Yea, meaningfully so. Morris is currently slated as the first (and likely only, when healthy) combo forward off the bench for this team and happens to be both a good defender and a decent enough offensive option. Beasely is fine for soaking up bench touches in short spurts during the regular season, but the guy is just lost on defense and isn't going to hack it in Brad Stevens' playoff rotation. You're basically taking away the only two-way wing off the bench the team currently has (assuming Rozier and Smart are both guards) and electing to roll with an all-offense/no-defense wing and a pretty good defensive wing who'll maybe be a decent catch-and-shoot off-ball guy hopefully. My guess is that Supercool Beas would get bumhunted off the floor in the playoffs and Stevens would roll with Semi as his full-time bench forward.


Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.

The thing is that Morris fills a role that none of Smart, Rozier, Baynes, or Theis does, and he's currently much more well-rounded than Semi is (I like Semi, but he needs some more development on offense). Rozier/Smart and Baynes/Theis have a fair amount of overlap in the roles they'll play for the team, but Morris kind of stands alone as a bigger two-way wing.

If he asks out because he's headed into a contract year and wants to go to a playoff situation where he'll start that's one thing, but if he's okay with the role he's the best option as far as an off-the-bench guy who could slide into the lineup for any of Tatum/Hayward/Brown while causing the least disruption to the system.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: A Future of Stevens on July 18, 2018, 09:50:51 PM
I guess it comes down to how much you are willing to pay for the heart and soul of our celtics. Considering we have 4-5 knock down shooters in our main rotation, I'd be willing to pay 10-13 million for an uber hustle guy who puts it all on the floor.

Get it done Marcus and Danny. Marcus is a guy who leads your team into battle. It's almost like he is our standard bearer.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 18, 2018, 10:30:22 PM
Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

Worse.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Michael+Beasley&player_id1_select=Michael+Beasley&y1=2018&player_id1=beaslmi01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Marcus+Morris&player_id2_select=Marcus+Morris&y2=2018&player_id2=morrima03&idx=players

Significantly so? Enough of a difference to justify the repeater tax a year earlier?  I don’t think so.  I doubt having Morris over Beasley would result in even one additional win.

Yes, significantly so.  I’m going to rely on the market for this one, but Beasley has signed minimum salary contracts for the last 5 seasons, and has never been brought back by his team the following offseason (he had consecutive seasons in Miami, but in the offseason was signed and released by Memphis before rejoining Miami in March, initially on 10-day contracts).  He is yet again a free agent.  I don’t know exactly what it is, but there is probably a reason or reasons that he quickly wears out his welcome with a team and waits late into the offseason/into the regular season to sign somewhere after that team has exhausted other options.  Morris has his flaws, certainly, but way too many teams have tried Beasley and not liked what they’ve seen for me to be willing to make that switch solely for tax purposes.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Beat LA on July 19, 2018, 12:55:46 AM
Question: would we be better, worse, or about the same if we traded Marcus without taking back salary, and signed Michael Beasley?

Worse.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Michael+Beasley&player_id1_select=Michael+Beasley&y1=2018&player_id1=beaslmi01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Marcus+Morris&player_id2_select=Marcus+Morris&y2=2018&player_id2=morrima03&idx=players

Significantly so? Enough of a difference to justify the repeater tax a year earlier?  I don’t think so.  I doubt having Morris over Beasley would result in even one additional win.

Beasley's let's call it "defense" ;) ::) ;D is such that he'd rarely, if ever, get on the floor, imo, which would only compound the error of moving Morris so as to save money as the team would then be wasting money on his replacement, LOL ::) ;D.

Ugh at Smart returning, tho ::). Sigh.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 19, 2018, 01:02:37 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: RockinRyA on July 19, 2018, 01:09:53 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Beat LA on July 19, 2018, 01:12:41 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: RockinRyA on July 19, 2018, 01:48:47 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Androslav on July 19, 2018, 02:36:40 AM
44/4 would be a very good deal.
Locking up Smart in his prime for 4 years, tradeable contract, still provides some upside that he could outperform it.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: GreenEnvy on July 19, 2018, 02:54:41 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Meh, it’s a pretty small sample size that could largely be attributed to rust due to him missing nearly six weeks and being unable to shoot the majority of them. A good shooter would need time to get back to normal, so it’s easy to believe it takes longer for a poor one to regain their mechanics.

And since his playoff free throws were right in line with his regular season mark, no reason to believe his hand will hinder his shot.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Erik on July 19, 2018, 04:02:51 AM
I always found it odd that the people best equipped to evaluate Smart for his intangibles don’t realize his worth to a ball club. It would be understandable coming from generic NBA fans, but coming from people that watch the games? He has a purpose on offense and defense. On defense, he’s an absolute menace. He has quick hands. He has amazing lateral movement and reflexes and can keep his body between the defender and the hoop (sounds trivial but reAlly hard to do in the NBA) with the first step on these guys. On offense, he runs the plays, gets an offensive rebound, and lets our amazing shooters do their job. If you’re going to call him limited on offense, maybe that’s correct (really a subjective word), but then you’d have to throw Ben Simmons into a similar bucket. I’d rather have a 30% 3pt shooter than a no 3 pt shooter. If you don’t even attempt open 3s in the NBA your uncontested average is probably a maximum of 25%. Anything above that and it’s worth taking the point per possession loss(investment) to keep the defense honest. I have no doubt that if Smart were on a garbage team he’d be able to put up 15 points a night on more strightforward opportunities. It’s only in our offense type (find the open guy for the shot) that he seems like the weak link. Still 30% is good enough in my mind. If he ever improves to 33 over the course of this contract, I’d consider it a steal. I value him at 14 million a year based on similar contracts. 4y/46-50 is a bargain. Another thing that cannot be overstated: he’s a great locker room guy and his hustle is contagious. It’s human nature to rise to the challenge and put in your fair share. When you see your brother diving all over the court and sacrificing his body for your team, you want to do it too. He brings the absolute best out in people and I believe that he’s a major reason why the Celtivs have outperformed their expected value for the last 4 years.

https://youtu.be/-pq0yDgyQQM
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: TheSundanceKid on July 19, 2018, 04:59:04 AM
Assuming Smart comes back I've got:
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Smart
Baynes
Rozier

Theis
Ojeleye
Wanamaker

Morris could slot in the gap as you say but would he? Honestly I think Theis provides more to the team than Morris and Ojeleye may well have developed further than him come the playoffs.
I can't see him moving higher than 9th man in any scenario, and I don't think he's mentally equipped for that role in the same way Theis and Ojeleye would be.

The thing is that Morris fills a role that none of Smart, Rozier, Baynes, or Theis does, and he's currently much more well-rounded than Semi is (I like Semi, but he needs some more development on offense). Rozier/Smart and Baynes/Theis have a fair amount of overlap in the roles they'll play for the team, but Morris kind of stands alone as a bigger two-way wing.

If he asks out because he's headed into a contract year and wants to go to a playoff situation where he'll start that's one thing, but if he's okay with the role he's the best option as far as an off-the-bench guy who could slide into the lineup for any of Tatum/Hayward/Brown while causing the least disruption to the system.
I guess this is where I disagree. I don't think he does fill a role that others can't. In the playoffs he got a lot of minutes and had the opportunity to have stretches of being the go to guy for a bucket. I don't believe he did that. I don't think we really play bully ball against smaller lineups which negates his impact at the 4, and he isn't a good 3 pt shooter either. Theis can play the 4 on offense if needed with Al in the post, or Tatum and Hayward if we go small. If we did want a bigger stretch 4 then thats where I think the buyouts come into play, someone like Jared Dudley can fill that role in my eyes.
Then there is the locker room atmosphere to consider. I don't think he's the kind of guy who in a contract year would be happy to play minimal minutes in the hope that the right matchup comes along for him in the playoffs. Nor should he be, but that does cause a sticky situation.

To address some of the other replies as well, it obviously all depends on the amount Smart signs for. If you can stretch Nader and move Yab that is preferable of course. If that doesn't bring you under the tax then it's not an option. On the buyout pile, we have had successes in the past as pointed out in the thread. PJ Brown does count, in the same way a mid season addition of Ray Allen would count (something I could be on board with), and Nate the Great was mentioned as well.
KGLL does bring up a good point about matchups, my view of that is we had the opportunities to do that last playoffs and I didn't see Brad utilise it much. We trust our way of playing and to be honest I think the success speaks for itself.
GreenEnvy raises the point of utilising Morris early in the season. I don't disagree with that at all. We wouldn't have to move Morris before the season starts, only by the deadline. I think we are prepared to pay the tax this year if necessary, it would just be ideal not to. Giving him time at the beginning of the season may in fact increase his rep around the league and make a trade easier. Or, depending of Smart's cap hit, we may bring a player back at a lower salary.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Green-18 on July 19, 2018, 05:09:50 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Meh, it’s a pretty small sample size that could largely be attributed to rust due to him missing nearly six weeks and being unable to shoot the majority of them. A good shooter would need time to get back to normal, so it’s easy to believe it takes longer for a poor one to regain their mechanics.

And since his playoff free throws were right in line with his regular season mark, no reason to believe his hand will hinder his shot.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on the hand because he wasn't able to shoot for a significant period of time while the injury was healing.  By no means am I claiming he can or will become a good shooter. 

However, I don't think we should ignore his playoff 3 point percentage during the prior two postseasons.  Marcus shot 38% on 105 attempts during this time.  This was during a 24 game sample. 

I think a $12/mil per year contract is absolutely perfect for Smart.  No need for me to rehash the intangibles.  All I know is that he coaches and teammates have complete faith in his ability to help them win important games.  Below is a list of players making $12 million or more per year.  I tried to keep it to players who are in the middle of their careers.

How many of these guys actually impact winning?  I see a decent amount of inefficient scorers who don't move the needle on defense.  There are also a couple of one dimensional big men.  I am NOT saying that Marcus is definitively better than every one of these guys.  The list is more or less to show that $12 million per year is fair value for the impact that Marcus brings to the Celtics.  $12 million also reflects his shortcomings as a shooter.  If Marcus was a 35%+ three point shooter then he would have received a similar offer to Zach Lavine.   

Kent Bazemore - $19 million
Evan Turner - $18 Million
Tim Hardaway Jr - $18
Reggie Jackson - $18 million
Bismack Biyambo - $17 Million
Evan Fournier - $17 million (first guy on this list who I would place clearly above Smart.)
Ian Mahimi - $17 million
Solomon Hill - $12 million
Mason Plumlee - $13 million
Dion Waiters - $12.5 Million
Austin Rivers - $12.5 million
Jordan Clarkson - $12.5 million
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - $12.5 million



 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: trickybilly on July 19, 2018, 05:22:45 AM
That Mahinmi contract looks just awful..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: trickybilly on July 19, 2018, 06:23:23 AM
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1019719850342612992

Hadn't even considered that.

Is it possible year 1 is around 14, taking us all the way up to the Apron, but then year 2 drops all the way back to around 11 or so, taking us back under the tax..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Roy H. on July 19, 2018, 06:29:29 AM
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1019719850342612992

Hadn't even considered that.

Is it possible year 1 is around 14, taking us all the way up to the Apron, but then year 2 drops all the way back to around 11 or so, taking us back under the tax..

No. Annual raises or decreases are limited to 8% of the first year value of the contract.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: MattyIce on July 19, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Source says Danny Ainge and Happy Walters are meeting tiday in Boston.

https://twitter.com/murf56/status/1019919507601739776?s=21
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 19, 2018, 08:53:28 AM
Sounds like this should get done today then, unless the sides are further apart then reported.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: kraidstar on July 19, 2018, 09:01:20 AM
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1019719850342612992

Hadn't even considered that.

Is it possible year 1 is around 14, taking us all the way up to the Apron, but then year 2 drops all the way back to around 11 or so, taking us back under the tax..

No. Annual raises or decreases are limited to 8% of the first year value of the contract.
Yep.

And even that 8% gradient would be steep enough that it means Yab is likely gone alongside Nader.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Mike Pemulis on July 19, 2018, 09:11:48 AM
Source says Danny Ainge and Happy Walters are meeting tiday in Boston.

https://twitter.com/murf56/status/1019919507601739776?s=21
This tweet has been deleted. Have you seen the report anywhere else? Since the time it was tweeted yesterday that they were working on a deal, has any new information come out?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 09:17:32 AM
Source says Danny Ainge and Happy Walters are meeting tiday in Boston.

https://twitter.com/murf56/status/1019919507601739776?s=21
This tweet has been deleted. Have you seen the report anywhere else? Since the time it was tweeted yesterday that they were working on a deal, has any new information come out?

There’s a similar tweet from him that still exists:

https://twitter.com/murf56/status/1019923611073826817?s=21 (https://twitter.com/murf56/status/1019923611073826817?s=21)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: tonydelk on July 19, 2018, 09:18:10 AM
Source says Danny Ainge and Happy Walters are meeting tiday in Boston.

https://twitter.com/murf56/status/1019919507601739776?s=21
This tweet has been deleted. Have you seen the report anywhere else? Since the time it was tweeted yesterday that they were working on a deal, has any new information come out?

Marcus Smart - G - Celtics
Marcus Smart and his agent will meet with Celtics officials in Boston on Thursday in hopes of finalizing a deal, according to Shams Charania of Yahoo Sports.

Source: Shams Charania on Twitter Jul 19 - 9:10 AM

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1019931718088785920
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Mike Pemulis on July 19, 2018, 09:19:12 AM
Source says Danny Ainge and Happy Walters are meeting tiday in Boston.

https://twitter.com/murf56/status/1019919507601739776?s=21
This tweet has been deleted. Have you seen the report anywhere else? Since the time it was tweeted yesterday that they were working on a deal, has any new information come out?

Marcus Smart - G - Celtics
Marcus Smart and his agent will meet with Celtics officials in Boston on Thursday in hopes of finalizing a deal, according to Shams Charania of Yahoo Sports.

Source: Shams Charania on Twitter Jul 19 - 9:10 AM

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1019931718088785920

Just saw Shams tweet. You beat me to the post.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on July 19, 2018, 09:27:10 AM
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1019719850342612992

Hadn't even considered that.

Is it possible year 1 is around 14, taking us all the way up to the Apron, but then year 2 drops all the way back to around 11 or so, taking us back under the tax..

No. Annual raises or decreases are limited to 8% of the first year value of the contract.
Yep.

And even that 8% gradient would be steep enough that it means Yab is likely gone alongside Nader.

I could wrap my arms around, and hug the ever living sh1t out of a 4 year contract @ $49.63 (8% decrease annually from $14m year 1). That would be $12.88 (year 2), $11.85 (year 3) and $10.9 (year 4). Average of $12.4m annually.

Or am I misunderstanding the gradient? Is it 8% total decrease from year 1 to last year of contract?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: mef730 on July 19, 2018, 09:39:41 AM
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1019719850342612992

Hadn't even considered that.

Is it possible year 1 is around 14, taking us all the way up to the Apron, but then year 2 drops all the way back to around 11 or so, taking us back under the tax..

No. Annual raises or decreases are limited to 8% of the first year value of the contract.
Yep.

And even that 8% gradient would be steep enough that it means Yab is likely gone alongside Nader.

I could wrap my arms around, and hug the ever living sh1t out of a 4 year contract @ $49.63 (8% decrease annually from $14m year 1). That would be $12.88 (year 2), $11.85 (year 3) and $10.9 (year 4). Average of $12.4m annually.

Or am I misunderstanding the gradient? Is it 8% total decrease from year 1 to last year of contract?

My understanding, at least based on Roy's post, is that it is 8% per year, not total. That 8% is based on the first year, however. So if the first year is $14 million, then every year of the contract could be reduced by up to 1.12 million. In other words, the third year would be 11.76 (12.88-1.12), not 11.85 (12.88*.92).

I think.

Mike
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 09:42:15 AM
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1019719850342612992

Hadn't even considered that.

Is it possible year 1 is around 14, taking us all the way up to the Apron, but then year 2 drops all the way back to around 11 or so, taking us back under the tax..
Assuming this is the case, I bet Morris will be traded for salary relief + minor asset. Let's say a second rounder.


https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1019719850342612992

Hadn't even considered that.

Is it possible year 1 is around 14, taking us all the way up to the Apron, but then year 2 drops all the way back to around 11 or so, taking us back under the tax..

No. Annual raises or decreases are limited to 8% of the first year value of the contract.
Yep.

And even that 8% gradient would be steep enough that it means Yab is likely gone alongside Nader.

I could wrap my arms around, and hug the ever living sh1t out of a 4 year contract @ $49.63 (8% decrease annually from $14m year 1). That would be $12.88 (year 2), $11.85 (year 3) and $10.9 (year 4). Average of $12.4m annually.

Or am I misunderstanding the gradient? Is it 8% total decrease from year 1 to last year of contract?

My understanding, at least based on Roy's post, is that it is 8% per year, not total. That 8% is based on the first year, however. So if the first year is $14 million, then every year of the contract could be reduced by up to 1.12 million. In other words, the third year would be 11.76 (12.88-1.12), not 11.85 (12.88*.92).

I think.

Mike
Yep, that's how it works.

(assuming year 1 starts at $14 mil)

$14,000,000
$12,880,000
$11,760,000
$10,640,000

SUM $49,280,000
Average of $12,320,000 annually
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: MattyIce on July 19, 2018, 10:23:00 AM
Restricted free agent Marcus Smart has agreed to a four-year, $52M deal to return to the Boston Celtics, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1019950309005766656?s=21
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: jpotter33 on July 19, 2018, 10:26:21 AM
Restricted free agent Marcus Smart has agreed to a four-year, $52M deal to return to the Boston Celtics, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1019950309005766656?s=21

Hooray! The pitbull is back!
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: CelticSooner on July 19, 2018, 10:26:55 AM
Great news! Now it’s all about Banner 18  :)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Birdman on July 19, 2018, 10:28:32 AM
Good now lets go!!!!!
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 10:28:32 AM
Restricted free agent Marcus Smart has agreed to a four-year, $52M deal to return to the Boston Celtics, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1019950309005766656?s=21

Hooray! The pitbull is back!

Nice!  Year one will therefore be between $11.6 and $14.8 million, meaning we are a tax team without additional moves.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Phantom255x on July 19, 2018, 10:31:32 AM
YES!!!

FA officially began with us re-signing Baynes, and it almost ends with us re-signing Smart too! (yes, I acknowledge Capela and Melo are still out there)  ;D

Now hopefully Danny and the front office could work some magic to keep us under the tax another year. I trust they'll find a way  8)

LOVE the deal! Lock him up long term, and even if we do decide to trade for another star in the future.... that salary will be beneficial in facilitating a trade (it's something we had difficulty with this past summer in trade talks, since most of them would have required a max player OR BOTH Tatum + Brown in a package for $$$ purposes).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Phantom255x on July 19, 2018, 10:31:53 AM
YES!!!

FA officially began with us re-signing Baynes, and it almost ends with us re-signing Smart too! (yes, I acknowledge Capela and Melo are still out there)  ;D

Now hopefully Danny and the front office could work some magic to keep us under the tax another year. I trust they'll find a way  8)

LOVE the deal! Lock him up long term, and even if we do decide to trade for another star in the future.... that salary will be beneficial in facilitating a trade (it's something we had difficulty with this past summer in trade talks, since most of them would have required a max player OR BOTH Tatum + Brown in a package for $$$ purposes).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 19, 2018, 10:33:22 AM
(https://comps.canstockphoto.com/yes-boy-vector-clipart_csp14311907.jpg)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: jambr380 on July 19, 2018, 10:38:38 AM
$13M/yr is a lot more than I thought he would get. He is obviously being paid on future potential rather than what he currently provides. Hopefully that contract is considered tradable because the Cs seemed to bidding against themselves.

I like Smart, I really do, but do not think it was worth it to go into the tax (or trade other valuable rotation players) to keep him above the QO. They could have essentially signed him for $15M/he next year if he just came back on the QO and still paid the same amount. Like I said, they must be banking on future potential on this deal.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: celticinorlando on July 19, 2018, 10:41:52 AM
Pretty good deal for Boston compared to some of the guys money they got around the league. Plus it is a very tradable deal if need be.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Phantom255x on July 19, 2018, 10:43:33 AM
Not even surprised Shams broke the official news first and not Woj. Yet ESPN is like "sources first tell Woj", etc.  ::)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: makaveli on July 19, 2018, 10:44:27 AM
Let’s GO!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on July 19, 2018, 10:44:59 AM
Signing Marcus to close to what he believes he is worth was a great move. He is the heart of this team and shows we are committed to our players. No one can blame us for KI and IT. Any basketball fan knows that was a win for the Celtics. I am hopeful Marcus will stay healthy and him to find his shot too ala Jason Kidd later in his career. Love his heart; It is contagious.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: fairweatherfan on July 19, 2018, 10:46:03 AM
This was about the most Marcus was gonna get from us, so kudos to him.  It feels kinda like the equivalent of the Avery Bradley deal from a few years back, just under the bigger cap. Hopefully Marcus can use the windfall to pay someone to fight picture frames for him.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Birdman on July 19, 2018, 10:46:21 AM
Im no expert on the cap but do we have any more capspace to sign a vet to a mini salary?? Alex Len or someone like him
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on July 19, 2018, 10:47:42 AM
This deal is awesome. While it may be more than what the market is dictating for a player of his caliber, I feel like he gave a little bit by locking into a 4 year contract vs. shorter term. He offers intangibles and locker room presence at a minimum and becomes a decent trade chip moving forward given contract matching.

Glad he is with us though...lets stop thinking about trading away players for crying outloud. LOL
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 10:48:09 AM
Im no expert on the cap but do we have any more capspace to sign a vet to a mini salary?? Alex Len or someone like him

You don’t need cap space to sign anyone to a minimum salary (unless subject to the hard cap, which the C’s are not at present).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: smokeablount on July 19, 2018, 10:50:36 AM
Im no expert on the cap but do we have any more capspace to sign a vet to a mini salary?? Alex Len or someone like him

You don’t need cap space to sign anyone to a minimum salary (unless subject to the hard cap, which the C’s are not at present).

So are we good to sign Jabari Bird now, or did Smart's signing price us out?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JBcat on July 19, 2018, 10:51:46 AM
If we are going over the tax this year we might as well use our mid level exception at some point. Lol

I wonder what the specifics are if it’s frontloaded, a trade kicker ect.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: manl_lui on July 19, 2018, 10:54:14 AM
was just curious looking at stats

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1

Smart is a top 10 defensive player according to this but i honestly don't think this is that accurate, cuz Draymond Green is at 28
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 10:58:48 AM
Im no expert on the cap but do we have any more capspace to sign a vet to a mini salary?? Alex Len or someone like him

You don’t need cap space to sign anyone to a minimum salary (unless subject to the hard cap, which the C’s are not at present).

So are we good to sign Jabari Bird now, or did Smart's signing price us out?

Time will tell I guess.  We have a qualifying offer of a 2-way contract out to him, and can match any offer unless Sacramento gives him a ridiculous sum of money (over $5.3 million in year one).  Since were already in the tax, it’s less likely a team will give him an offer because it’s more likely we match (as he wouldn’t be thebplayer putting us into the tax).  So maybe we’ll still sign him to a Semi-style deal, maybe we’ll convince him to take the QO so that we can lessen the tax bill or get under the tax more easily, or maybe he’ll go to Europe (in which case we’d still have his rights next summer and until he comes back or we relinquish them).  I don’t think a team at this point tries to outbid us.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: PAOBoston on July 19, 2018, 11:00:11 AM
I can live with this deal. I though 12 per was fair value so maybe a slight overpay but it's good to take care of homegrown talent. I think it sends good message to rest of team that ownership is committed to those guys. Keeps Smart happy and it gives Cs flexibility in making trades in the future.

Glad this is finally over and team roster is basically set for the most part. Cannot wait until training camp.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: perks-a-beast on July 19, 2018, 11:03:39 AM
If there is an "agent of the year" award it has to go to whoever represents smart. Getting Smart $13 mill is insanity.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Birdman on July 19, 2018, 11:07:37 AM
Can he be traded in any of the 4 years?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: MattyIce on July 19, 2018, 11:13:13 AM
If there is an "agent of the year" award it has to go to whoever represents smart. Getting Smart $13 mill is insanity.

well that same agent should have won "worst agent of the year" when he recently let his client nerlens noel decline 70 million
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Big333223 on July 19, 2018, 11:14:02 AM
I love having him locked up for the next 4 years. Love it. I think he's going to have his best year this year.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JBcat on July 19, 2018, 11:14:34 AM
If there is an "agent of the year" award it has to go to whoever represents smart. Getting Smart $13 mill is insanity.

A few years ago I would say yes, but with the big jump in the cap, and max contracts now 30+ mil I’m fine with it.

A lot of big contracts will probably be given out next summer with most teams having cap space.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Smart improves even a little that in 2 years this looks like bargain when you look around the league.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 11:22:59 AM
I love having him locked up for the next 4 years. Love it. I think he's going to have his best year this year.

Meh he is who is he is at this point. A scrappy defender and hustle guy off the bench and Master Mason. It's nice to have him around and it's not my money I guess but between his horrific offense and Kyrie's historical fragility, I just pray it doesn't cost us Rozier..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 19, 2018, 11:27:25 AM
For reference, this contract is a comparable percentage (slightly smaller) of the cap to what Bradley got from Ainge in 2014.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JBcat on July 19, 2018, 11:27:41 AM
I want to say I don’t think Smart is a horrific offensive player.  Aside from his terrible shooting he actually pretty good at running an offense, and driving into the lane and making some nice passes.  Better than Rozier in this area IMO.  Smart and Rozier I think compliment each other well with their strengths and weaknesses.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 11:29:17 AM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 11:31:32 AM
I want to say I don’t think Smart is a horrific offensive player.  Aside from his terrible shooting he actually pretty good at running an offense, and driving into the lane and making some nice passes.  Better than Rozier in this area IMO.  Smart and Rozier I think compliment each other well with their strengths and weaknesses.

IDK I keep hearing that but any objective measure you look at says Smart is simply a terrible, terrible offensive player. I guess there's some immeasurables the team sees somewhere, I just can't find it..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: td450 on July 19, 2018, 11:31:36 AM
Wow.  If you are a huge Marcus Smart fan, you might consider that this sized deal makes it less likely he stays longer term. My guess is that Ainge isn't done with this team's core yet.

It will be interesting to watch how the team might protect his perceived value. I don't see how the team manages the minutes for him and Rozier unless someone goes down again.

I think this means 2018/19 is likely the last year he's a Celtic.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 11:33:02 AM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Assuming Danny doesn't plan to trade Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward. Unless we trade Rozier by the deadline, chances are that we 'll lose him for nothing next summer.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Donoghus on July 19, 2018, 11:48:47 AM
I can live with that contract. 

Also, gives the C's another moveable contract if need be. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: knuckleballer on July 19, 2018, 11:49:49 AM
It's a little more than I was hoping for, but I'm still thrilled that we have re-signed Smart for four years.  Just his leadership alone is worth it.  Irving, Hayward, and Horford aren't vocal leaders like Smart is.  I just hope they don't trade away Morris to get under the tax.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: CelticsElite on July 19, 2018, 11:50:42 AM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Given that we re-signed Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward.
if kyrie walks we can
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: bogg on July 19, 2018, 11:52:04 AM
I want to say I don’t think Smart is a horrific offensive player.  Aside from his terrible shooting he actually pretty good at running an offense, and driving into the lane and making some nice passes.  Better than Rozier in this area IMO.  Smart and Rozier I think compliment each other well with their strengths and weaknesses.

IDK I keep hearing that but any objective measure you look at says Smart is simply a terrible, terrible offensive player. I guess there's some immeasurables the team sees somewhere, I just can't find it..

Well, except that the team was better at offense he's on the floor....
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 11:55:58 AM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Given that we re-signed Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward.
if kyrie walks we can
Problem is, if we wait till next summer to see what happens with Kyrie, we 'll then lose Rozier for nothing (assuming Kyrie re-signs). If I were Danny, I'd trade Rozier at the deadline for the highest pick I could possibly get.

It's only logical to assume that Danny has already talked to Kyrie with regards to his next contract. I bet he has a pretty good understanding of what to expect from Kyrie next summer.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: footey on July 19, 2018, 11:59:37 AM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Given that we re-signed Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward.
if kyrie walks we can
Problem is, if we wait till next summer to see what happens with Kyrie, we 'll then lose Rozier for nothing (assuming Kyrie re-signs). If I were Danny, I'd trade Rozier at the deadline for the highest pick I could possibly get.

He's a RFA, we can always match what he gets and trade him later if necessary.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Assuming Danny doesn't plan to trade Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward. Unless we trade Rozier by the deadline, chances are that we 'll lose him for nothing next summer.

I'd say we'll trade Smart before Rozier. Rozier was the starting PG of an ECF team. Smart is a bench role player..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: footey on July 19, 2018, 12:04:07 PM
If there is an "agent of the year" award it has to go to whoever represents smart. Getting Smart $13 mill is insanity.

Tell that to Nerlens Noel.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 12:04:12 PM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Given that we re-signed Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward.
if kyrie walks we can
Problem is, if we wait till next summer to see what happens with Kyrie, we 'll then lose Rozier for nothing (assuming Kyrie re-signs). If I were Danny, I'd trade Rozier at the deadline for the highest pick I could possibly get.

He's a RFA, we can always match what he gets and trade him later if necessary.
No we cannot. The luxury tax is gonna be huge. Not to mention, if we were willing to match salaries why not keep Rozier in the first place?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: knuckleballer on July 19, 2018, 12:04:17 PM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.


We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Given that we re-signed Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward.
if kyrie walks we can
Problem is, if we wait till next summer to see what happens with Kyrie, we 'll then lose Rozier for nothing (assuming Kyrie re-signs). If I were Danny, I'd trade Rozier at the deadline for the highest pick I could possibly get.

It's only logical to assume that Danny has already talked to Kyrie with regards to his next contract. I bet he has a pretty good understanding of what to expect from Kyrie next summer.

Yeah, but we're trying to win a championship.  I say keep him.  Plus, if Kyrie walks after this season, Rozier is an insurance policy.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JBcat on July 19, 2018, 12:07:46 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: kraidstar on July 19, 2018, 12:08:13 PM
It's a little more than I was hoping for, but I'm still thrilled that we have re-signed Smart for four years.  Just his leadership alone is worth it.  Irving, Hayward, and Horford aren't vocal leaders like Smart is.  I just hope they don't trade away Morris to get under the tax.
Makes more sense to me to just trade Yabu. That should free enough salary. Some team like the Nets will take a flyer.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 12:08:52 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.

I think he wants Rozier to stay badly, and why not? I mean Rozier almost led us to the Finals. Marcus is like a 9th man.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 19, 2018, 12:10:32 PM
I want to say I don’t think Smart is a horrific offensive player.  Aside from his terrible shooting he actually pretty good at running an offense, and driving into the lane and making some nice passes.  Better than Rozier in this area IMO.  Smart and Rozier I think compliment each other well with their strengths and weaknesses.

IDK I keep hearing that but any objective measure you look at says Smart is simply a terrible, terrible offensive player. I guess there's some immeasurables the team sees somewhere, I just can't find it..
Is points scored objective? The team's offense functioned better this year when he was on the court rather than off it.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 19, 2018, 12:11:28 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.

I think he wants Rozier to stay badly, and why not? I mean Rozier almost led us to the Finals. Marcus is like a 9th man.
How is 5th in minutes played per game in the playoffs a 9th man?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 12:12:15 PM
I want to say I don’t think Smart is a horrific offensive player.  Aside from his terrible shooting he actually pretty good at running an offense, and driving into the lane and making some nice passes.  Better than Rozier in this area IMO.  Smart and Rozier I think compliment each other well with their strengths and weaknesses.

IDK I keep hearing that but any objective measure you look at says Smart is simply a terrible, terrible offensive player. I guess there's some immeasurables the team sees somewhere, I just can't find it..
Is points scored objective? The team's offense functioned better this year when he was on the court rather than off it.

Hmmm, where is this? I am looking at an ORtg of 109 for Rozier, 97 for Smart. My god that is bad..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: fairweatherfan on July 19, 2018, 12:12:21 PM
Remember when we were down late at home to Houston and Marcus Smart spontaneously powered up to unleash a Spirit Dime followed by not one but two Omega Flops?  Good times.  Now we get to see a whole lot more of that through 2022.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=difg1ERWZfU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=difg1ERWZfU)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 12:12:23 PM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Assuming Danny doesn't plan to trade Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward. Unless we trade Rozier by the deadline, chances are that we 'll lose him for nothing next summer.

I'd say we'll trade Smart before Rozier. Rozier was the starting PG of an ECF team. Smart is a bench role player..
That's true. Thing is, we already have Kyrie doing what Rozier does (obviously, Kyrie >>> Rozier). We have no one doing what Smart does.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 19, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 12:17:28 PM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Assuming Danny doesn't plan to trade Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward. Unless we trade Rozier by the deadline, chances are that we 'll lose him for nothing next summer.

I'd say we'll trade Smart before Rozier. Rozier was the starting PG of an ECF team. Smart is a bench role player..
That's true. Thing is, we already have Kyrie doing what Rozier does (obviously, Kyrie >>> Rozier). We have no one doing what Smart does.

Meh, they have identical DRtg and Rozier's ORtg is 12 POINTS higher. What does Mighty Marcus provide that Rozier doesn't?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 19, 2018, 12:18:35 PM
I want to say I don’t think Smart is a horrific offensive player.  Aside from his terrible shooting he actually pretty good at running an offense, and driving into the lane and making some nice passes.  Better than Rozier in this area IMO.  Smart and Rozier I think compliment each other well with their strengths and weaknesses.

IDK I keep hearing that but any objective measure you look at says Smart is simply a terrible, terrible offensive player. I guess there's some immeasurables the team sees somewhere, I just can't find it..
Is points scored objective? The team's offense functioned better this year when he was on the court rather than off it.

Hmmm, where is this? I am looking at an ORtg of 109 for Rozier, 97 for Smart. My god that is bad..
On/Off 108 On 107 Off this year for the C's

Which is distinct from ORtg. BTW ORtg on the player pages is not the same thing as the team ORtg despite the same acronym..

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

Team Offensive Rating is possesion/pace normalized scoring. Individual Offensive Rating is a complicated estimate off of box score components and team numbers trying to grade a single players offensive contribution. Its rather similar to PER in that manner, though it weights things differently of course.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 19, 2018, 12:19:31 PM
Meh, they have identical DRtg and Rozier's ORtg is 12 POINTS higher. What does Mighty Marcus provide that Rozier doesn't?
I suggest you look up what ORtg/DRtg on basketball reference actually are.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html
Quote
Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 12:24:16 PM
Meh, they have identical DRtg and Rozier's ORtg is 12 POINTS higher. What does Mighty Marcus provide that Rozier doesn't?
I suggest you look up what ORtg/DRtg on basketball reference actually are.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html
Quote
Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.

So? You're automatically assuming Marcus is better at all those things which seems pretty unsafe to me.

And we're saying even though Marcus has one of the worst offensive ratings in the league the offense is somehow BETTER when he's playing? How in the world does this happen?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 19, 2018, 12:25:45 PM

And we're saying even though Marcus has one of the worst offensive ratings in the league the offense is somehow BETTER when he's playing? How in the world does this happen?
I am not saying it, it literally happened last year. When Marcus Smart was on the floor the Celtics offense was more efficient than it was when he was off the court.

This also occurred during the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018/on-off/

Now raw on/off numbers are tricky, but they do indicate that Marcus wasn't some disaster for the C's offense as you believe.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 12:26:47 PM

And we're saying even though Marcus has one of the worst offensive ratings in the league the offense is somehow BETTER when he's playing? How in the world does this happen?
I am not saying it, it literally happened last year. When Marcus Smart was on the floor the Celtics offense was more efficient than it was when he was off the court.

This also occurred during the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018/on-off/

Simply astounding..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 12:28:57 PM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Assuming Danny doesn't plan to trade Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward. Unless we trade Rozier by the deadline, chances are that we 'll lose him for nothing next summer.

I'd say we'll trade Smart before Rozier. Rozier was the starting PG of an ECF team. Smart is a bench role player..
That's true. Thing is, we already have Kyrie doing what Rozier does (obviously, Kyrie >>> Rozier). We have no one doing what Smart does.

Meh, they have identical DRtg and Rozier's ORtg is 12 POINTS higher. What does Mighty Marcus provide that Rozier doesn't?
Well, for starters, Smart can defend 4 positions (if not 5 against small ball centers). Rozier is a very good on-ball defender and that's about it.

The way I see it, Smart is probably the best PG in the NBA when it comes to switching on defense.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 12:31:22 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I don’t expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price.  He’s a cheap but high-quality reserve on a tax-level championship-caliber team.  At the same time, he’s a restricted free agent which means he offers Kyrie-protection in free agency.  The team is set up to take a real shot at a title — you don’t move Rozier if it doesn’t get you closer this year, or the future value is that substantial.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JHTruth on July 19, 2018, 12:33:00 PM
Kyrie still does up quite a bit defensively..
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 19, 2018, 12:35:16 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I don’t expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price. 
Oh I expect Danny's ask to be huge, and for nothing to get done. But he'll be kicking the tires and Rozier and Picks are really the only things that seem movable at this point. Tatum/Brown seem untouchable, Kryie is expiring and they want to contend, same with Al.

I guess Hayward/Smart could also be talked about mid season....
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 12:36:44 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I don’t expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price. 
Oh I expect Danny's ask to be huge, and for nothing to get done. But he'll be kicking the tires and Rozier and Picks are really the only things that seem movable at this point. Tatum/Brown seem untouchable, Kryie is expiring and they want to contend, same with Al.

I guess Hayward/Smart could also be talked about mid season....

I think by mid season people here will stop suggesting Hayward when they see how well he works with this team.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 19, 2018, 12:38:41 PM
I think by mid season people here will stop suggesting Hayward when they see how well he works with this team.
I certainly hope so. I don't expect him to be even mentioned myself. Just was working through the contracts that matter that could be traded.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: fairweatherfan on July 19, 2018, 12:45:33 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I don’t expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price. 
Oh I expect Danny's ask to be huge, and for nothing to get done. But he'll be kicking the tires and Rozier and Picks are really the only things that seem movable at this point. Tatum/Brown seem untouchable, Kryie is expiring and they want to contend, same with Al.

I guess Hayward/Smart could also be talked about mid season....

I think by mid season people here will stop suggesting Hayward when they see how well he works with this team.

*Flash forward to January when Hayward misses an open 3 late in a meaningless road loss and the entire latest topics is trade proposals*
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 12:46:39 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I don’t expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price. 
Oh I expect Danny's ask to be huge, and for nothing to get done. But he'll be kicking the tires and Rozier and Picks are really the only things that seem movable at this point. Tatum/Brown seem untouchable, Kryie is expiring and they want to contend, same with Al.

I guess Hayward/Smart could also be talked about mid season....

I think by mid season people here will stop suggesting Hayward when they see how well he works with this team.

*Flash forward to January when Hayward misses an open 3 late in a meaningless road loss and the entire latest topics is trade proposals*


Haha, TP.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: keevsnick on July 19, 2018, 12:53:37 PM
4/52 is more than I wanted to go for Smart, I was pretty set on no more than 4/48 for most of the seaosn and dropped that further after seeing how restrictive the market is. Honestly it seems like he wasnt willing to sign really for anything less than this, so if you wanted Marcus long term I guess this is what it takes. My big takeaway is this, if it doesn't hurt your ability to bring back the core five guys then its great. Its an overpay but its not my money and Marcus Smart makes us better. If a year or two form now we start hearing about how the Celtics dont wnat to pay the tax and have to attach a pick too move this it becomes very bad. Given the lack of interest in Smart it would not surprise me if this is a situation where the Celtcs value him more than the league, and these type of contracts can be hard to move. For example, if we wanted to include him in an AD package do the pelicans even value this as a net positive contract?

And I suspect we are gonna end up ditching Morris now.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 12:53:55 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I don’t expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price.  He’s a cheap but high-quality reserve on a tax-level championship-caliber team.  At the same time, he’s a restricted free agent which means he offers Kyrie-protection in free agency.  The team is set up to take a real shot at a title — you don’t move Rozier if it doesn’t get you closer this year, or the future value is that substantial.
Fair enough. So you'd be willing to lose Rozier for nothing in a years' time (assuming we re-sign Kyrie)?

With Smart as our backup PG, Rozier will predominantly play as a backup SG. Problem is, both Smart and Rozier need the ball in their hands in order to be effective on offense. Obviously Smart cannot play off the ball cause he is a terrible shooter. What this means is, we 'll end up using Rozier as a weak side shooter (the way CBS was using him during last year's playoffs run). That's not his style of play. Not worth keeping him in that role (at least imo).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Roy H. on July 19, 2018, 12:54:10 PM
Quote
Jared Weiss: Marcus Smart’s deal is fully guaranteed for all four years with no options and will follow the standard 8% raise structure starting at around $11.6 million, a league source tells The Athletic. – via Twitter JaredWeissNBA
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: cman88 on July 19, 2018, 01:02:34 PM
Clearly with this contract to Marcus, Danny believes we are a contender and he wants to pay to try and have a run at a title. every contending team needs a Marcus smart like player.

Management has always stated that they have no problem paying the tax if they can win championships.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Boris Badenov on July 19, 2018, 01:03:36 PM
Well played by Danny.

Despite grumbling from the Smart camp, it was a good idea to wait out the process before putting a real offer on the table. If Danny had said right at the beginning of FA "we have a 4 year, $52 million contract on the table for Marcus," it would have given other teams incentives to make a higher offer just to mess with our cap situation if Danny matched. Alternatively, it would have been a good signal that Danny really values Marcus, and maybe induced another team to revise their opinion of him and outbid us.

By leaving everyone in the dark as to how he valued Smart, until nearly every other team had used their cap space, he basically cut the competition out of the picture.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 01:05:03 PM
Quote
Jared Weiss: Marcus Smart’s deal is fully guaranteed for all four years with no options and will follow the standard 8% raise structure starting at around $11.6 million, a league source tells The Athletic. – via Twitter JaredWeissNBA
Was hoping for a frontloaded contract. Oh well... I guess the important thing is that he re-signed on a reasonable contract.

Thanks for the update Roy :)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Dino Pitino on July 19, 2018, 01:08:19 PM
Clearly with this contract to Marcus, Danny believes we are a contender and he wants to pay to try and have a run at a title. every contending team needs a Marcus smart like player.

Management has always stated that they have no problem paying the tax if they can win championships.

Yep. There are two reasons to celebrate. Smart is staying, first, and more importantly the front office thinks we're ready to win the title now.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I don’t expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price.  He’s a cheap but high-quality reserve on a tax-level championship-caliber team.  At the same time, he’s a restricted free agent which means he offers Kyrie-protection in free agency.  The team is set up to take a real shot at a title — you don’t move Rozier if it doesn’t get you closer this year, or the future value is that substantial.
Fair enough. So you'd be willing to lose Rozier for nothing in a years' time (assuming we re-sign Kyrie)?

With Smart as our backup PG, Rozier will predominantly play as a backup SG. Problem is, both Smart and Rozier need the ball in their hands in order to be effective on offense. Obviously Smart cannot play off the ball cause he is a terrible shooter. What this means is, we 'll end up using Rozier as a weak side shooter (the way CBS was using him during last year's playoffs run). That's not his style of play. Not worth keeping him in that role (at least imo).

Yes, I would absolutely be willing to lose Rozier in a year for nothing.  Players leave in free agency at times.  It happens.  People are willing all the time here to give up draft picks for expiring contracts on other teams who could give us a boost, but at the same time seem frightful of losing our own players when they leave, when it’s really just a foregone pick instead of a traded pick for similar production.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: vjcsmoke on July 19, 2018, 01:10:22 PM
Well I said all along I was hoping for a 3/39 deal for Smart.  AAV of 13m dollars.  What Smart actually signed was a 4/52, AAV of.... 13m dollars.  This gives the team extra control.  If we ever end up trading Marcus down the road and he is seen as a net positive player, the extra years of team control will be a plus.  On the other hand if he declines in skill level, then his contract will be seen as an albatross.

Believe it or not Marcus Smart is still only 24 years old.  By the end of his contract he will be 28.  The Celtics will have him for his prime years throughout the deal.  So as long as he maintains his current level, or if he miraculously develops a 3 point shot, his value will only increase, or at worse stay about the same.

I like the deal.  I wouldn't be too fussed about the luxury tax implications.  We can make space if we really need to.  But we are pretty much running it back and we are adding a healthy Kyrie Irving and healthy Gordon Hayward to a really good core!

Marcus Smart Salaries:
2018 11.6m
2019 12.5m
2020 13.5m
2021 14.6m
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 01:13:44 PM
Who knows, maybe Danny has a vision of keeping Smart, Irving AND Rozier during our contending years.  Many of us thought Smart would only come back on the QO, and we were wrong.
I think Danny will shop Rozier hard this season once we've seen Kyrie play and be healthy.

He probably won't move him in the end, but he'll shop him hard. (similar to Marcus this season) Then we'll let him walk if Kyrie leaves in FA and he signs a big offer sheet or match his offer sheet (or extend our own) if Kyrie leaves.

I don’t expect much shopping of Rozier, not without a huge asking price.  He’s a cheap but high-quality reserve on a tax-level championship-caliber team.  At the same time, he’s a restricted free agent which means he offers Kyrie-protection in free agency.  The team is set up to take a real shot at a title — you don’t move Rozier if it doesn’t get you closer this year, or the future value is that substantial.
Fair enough. So you'd be willing to lose Rozier for nothing in a years' time (assuming we re-sign Kyrie)?

With Smart as our backup PG, Rozier will predominantly play as a backup SG. Problem is, both Smart and Rozier need the ball in their hands in order to be effective on offense. Obviously Smart cannot play off the ball cause he is a terrible shooter. What this means is, we 'll end up using Rozier as a weak side shooter (the way CBS was using him during last year's playoffs run). That's not his style of play. Not worth keeping him in that role (at least imo).

Yes, I would absolutely be willing to lose Rozier in a year for nothing.  Players leave in free agency at times.  It happens.  People are willing all the time here to give up draft picks for expiring contracts on other teams who could give us a boost, but at the same time seem frightful of losing our own players when they leave, when it’s really just a foregone pick instead of a traded pick for similar production.
We agree to disagree. Rozier can fetch us a mid first. No way I'd let him walk, especially if we plan to use him as a backup SG. The way I see it, Rozier needs the ball in his hands in order to be effective on offense. He won't be the same player he was during the 2018 playoffs next year.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: mef730 on July 19, 2018, 01:25:14 PM
Remember when we were down late at home to Houston and Marcus Smart spontaneously powered up to unleash a Spirit Dime followed by not one but two Omega Flops?  Good times.  Now we get to see a whole lot more of that through 2022.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=difg1ERWZfU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=difg1ERWZfU)

Only in basketball can the last 18 seconds of a game, and with the commercials cut out, still take over six minutes.

Mike
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 19, 2018, 01:30:51 PM
not looking good for Rozier
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 01:35:08 PM
not looking good for Rozier

Depends what you mean.  Rozier will have a better chance of getting a big deal for himself next summer.  If he’s a Celtic all season, either Kyrie leaves and Rozier gets paid by Boston, or Kyrie stays and teams aren’t afraid Boston will match an offer sheet because of payroll reasons.  Or maybe he gets traded this offseason to a team willing to extend him (not what I’d do, but certainly possible).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 19, 2018, 01:36:09 PM
not looking good for Rozier

Depends what you mean.  Rozier will have a better chance of getting a big deal for himself next summer.  If he’s a Celtic all season, either Kyrie leaves and Rozier gets paid by Boston, or Kyrie stays and teams aren’t afraid Boston will match an offer sheet because of payroll reasons.  Or maybe he gets traded this offseason to a team willing to extend him (not what I’d do, but certainly possible).

meant for chances of C's keeping him long term on a big deal, assuming Kyrie stays
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: nickagneta on July 19, 2018, 01:40:47 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 01:46:17 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.

I think it was largely an assessment of what Smart could get as an unrestricted free agent next year.  The Celtics are paying him an extra $5.4 million this year, and then essentially have him on a 3/$40 million contract going forward.  If they think that he could have easily gotten 3 years $48 million, or more, then it’s the type of deal that can be good for both sides.  The Celtics are paying more this year to save on him in the future, and Smart gets certainty.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: blink on July 19, 2018, 01:49:28 PM
The money seems a bit high, but probably won't feel that way by year 3 or 4.  I love smart, and am glad he is back.  He is such a unique player.  Even though he is a terrible shooter, he has such a big impact on winning that it is really hard to determine if this was an overpay or not. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: rondofan1255 on July 19, 2018, 01:56:04 PM
Quote
Smart's annual money on the 4-year, $52 million deal...

2018-19: $11,660,716
2019-20: $12,553,572
2020-21: $13,446,428
2021-22: $14,339,285

Salaries include a $500K likely bonus for body fat weigh in, per sources.

https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1020000716440653825
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Moranis on July 19, 2018, 01:56:42 PM
52 million over 4 years is way too much for Smart. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hpantazo on July 19, 2018, 02:01:32 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: jpotter33 on July 19, 2018, 02:06:56 PM
Any news regarding the structure of the contract? Frontloaded, team/player option, whatever...

In any case, I fully expect us to trade at least one of Morris/Rozier/Yabu. Either during the offseason or close to the trade deadline.

We can't trade Rozier, at least until Kyrie is back in the fold long-term. Smart is not a starter.

Morris and Yabu are expendable however...
Assuming Danny doesn't plan to trade Smart, I fully expect us to trade Rozier.

We cannot keep both Smart and Rozier going forward. Unless we trade Rozier by the deadline, chances are that we 'll lose him for nothing next summer.

I'd say we'll trade Smart before Rozier. Rozier was the starting PG of an ECF team. Smart is a bench role player..

Wait, wait, wait - you do realize that Rozier only started because Smart also tore the thumb ligament the same game as Kyrie’s injury, right? If Smart was healthy, he would’ve been starting over Rozier, and it was solely for the sake of continuity that they continued to keep Rozier as a starter when Smart came back in the playoffs.

And further, by that logic Smart is also technically a starting pg of an ECF team (2017), as IT was injured for most of that series.  ;)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Jvalin on July 19, 2018, 02:08:24 PM
52 million over 4 years is way too much for Smart.
I would argue that in a couple of years it's gonna be considered a steal.

Remember Rodman playing for the Bulls in the 90's? The way I see it, Smart is our Rodman! I love this guy! Really happy he signed a long term contract!
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: jpotter33 on July 19, 2018, 02:08:31 PM
Quote
Smart's annual money on the 4-year, $52 million deal...

2018-19: $11,660,716
2019-20: $12,553,572
2020-21: $13,446,428
2021-22: $14,339,285

Salaries include a $500K likely bonus for body fat weigh in, per sources.

https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1020000716440653825

Interesting. Would’ve thought that there would be shooting incentives or incentives based on defensive accolades, e.g. All-Defensive Team.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Boris Badenov on July 19, 2018, 02:13:34 PM
not looking good for Rozier

Depends what you mean.  Rozier will have a better chance of getting a big deal for himself next summer.  If he’s a Celtic all season, either Kyrie leaves and Rozier gets paid by Boston, or Kyrie stays and teams aren’t afraid Boston will match an offer sheet because of payroll reasons.  Or maybe he gets traded this offseason to a team willing to extend him (not what I’d do, but certainly possible).

meant for chances of C's keeping him long term on a big deal, assuming Kyrie stays

We can still trade Smart next summer if that looks like the best move. I think Rozier's departure is far from certain.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Boris Badenov on July 19, 2018, 02:15:20 PM
52 million over 4 years is way too much for Smart.
I would argue that in a couple of years it's gonna be considered a steal.

Remember Rodman playing for the Bulls in the 90's? The way I see it, Smart is our Rodman! I love this guy! Really happy he signed a long term contract!

I can see this happening too. The cap is rising, Smart is young...there was a lot of griping about Avery Bradley's deal too.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: JBcat on July 19, 2018, 02:17:29 PM
Hopefully with this deal Smart can exhale a bit giving him security, and really improve without a new contract hanging over his head.  He’ll still have time to cash in on another sizable contract later on when he enters his prime.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: jambr380 on July 19, 2018, 02:22:32 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 02:34:27 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Cman on July 19, 2018, 02:58:40 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

Completely agree. This deal will look great at this time next summer.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: jambr380 on July 19, 2018, 03:35:20 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I actually really like Smart and am happy he is staying with the team. I just would have preferred to pay him that $15+/yr contract after he proved himself this year rather than banking on his improvement. Of course if he doesn’t improve, I would be even happier paying him a Roberson-like contract.

I figured we would keep either Smart or Rozier and I would have liked to have another year to look at both (and also see what contract offers each receives). This kind-of puts us out of the Rozier running unless we trade Smart next offseason to one of the many teams with cap space. As I mentioned earlier, I just hope his contract is seen as an asset and not a liability at that point.

I am also not overly excited about potentially losing Morris/Yabu/Bird for nothing. Him taking the QO would have prevented that (but apparently given us one less trade chip in Smart).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: No Nickname on July 19, 2018, 03:38:11 PM
And Avery Bradley got 2yrs/$25MM.  Very similar numbers but we get Smart for two extra years.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: mmmmm on July 19, 2018, 04:40:29 PM

And we're saying even though Marcus has one of the worst offensive ratings in the league the offense is somehow BETTER when he's playing? How in the world does this happen?
I am not saying it, it literally happened last year. When Marcus Smart was on the floor the Celtics offense was more efficient than it was when he was off the court.

This also occurred during the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018/on-off/

Now raw on/off numbers are tricky, but they do indicate that Marcus wasn't some disaster for the C's offense as you believe.

Yeah ... um ... you really have to take these numbers with a GIGANTIC grain of salt unless you actually dive into the details.

For example, you need to consider things like, when Marcus was on the floor about half  (48%) the time Kyrie was also on the floor.  For Rozier, Kyrie shared the floor with him on just 22% of the time.   

Sharing the floor more often with a guy who is not only an elite 60% TS high efficiency scorer but also a very high, greater than 30% USG scorer, will tend to do wonders for your offensive rating.


                 minutes poss   ORtg     DRtg    Net (per 100)
Marcus w/ Irving    837  1667   117.4   104.6    +12.8
Marcus w/o Irving   936  1827   103.8   103.5     +0.3

Rozier w/ Irving    531  1049   112.4   109.5     +2.9
Rozier w/o Irving  1900  3689   108.4   105.7     +2.7


It's important to really look at the details of who is sharing the floor with a player when looking at ORtg and DRtg and on/off number. 

I think it's important to look at actual 5-man data to see what it tells you.  The difficulty there is getting samples of sufficient size.

Marcus' most commonly used 5-man unit was with Kyrie, the two J's and Al.
Rozier's most common 5-man unit was with the two J's, Al and Aron.   Here is how they performed:


Unit                                  minutes  possessions   ORtg     DRtg    Net (per 100)
Kyrie+Smart+Jaylen+Jayson+Horford     140       281          116.2   112.7    +3.5
Rozier+Jaylen+Jayson+Horford+Baynes   163       306          111.0   100.3   +10.7

Unfortunately, the 'swap' units of Smart with the two J's, Al & Aron (just 45 minutes) and Rozier with Kyrie, the two J's and Al (just 49 minutes) are both too small to be useful as comparisons. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: The Oracle on July 19, 2018, 05:31:37 PM

And we're saying even though Marcus has one of the worst offensive ratings in the league the offense is somehow BETTER when he's playing? How in the world does this happen?
I am not saying it, it literally happened last year. When Marcus Smart was on the floor the Celtics offense was more efficient than it was when he was off the court.

This also occurred during the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018/on-off/

Now raw on/off numbers are tricky, but they do indicate that Marcus wasn't some disaster for the C's offense as you believe.

Yeah ... um ... you really have to take these numbers with a GIGANTIC grain of salt unless you actually dive into the details.

For example, you need to consider things like, when Marcus was on the floor about half  (48%) the time Kyrie was also on the floor.  For Rozier, Kyrie shared the floor with him on just 22% of the time.   

Sharing the floor more often with a guy who is not only an elite 60% TS high efficiency scorer but also a very high, greater than 30% USG scorer, will tend to do wonders for your offensive rating.


                 minutes poss   ORtg     DRtg    Net (per 100)
Marcus w/ Irving    837  1667   117.4   104.6    +12.8
Marcus w/o Irving   936  1827   103.8   103.5     +0.3

Rozier w/ Irving    531  1049   112.4   109.5     +2.9
Rozier w/o Irving  1900  3689   108.4   105.7     +2.7


It's important to really look at the details of who is sharing the floor with a player when looking at ORtg and DRtg and on/off number. 

I think it's important to look at actual 5-man data to see what it tells you.  The difficulty there is getting samples of sufficient size.

Marcus' most commonly used 5-man unit was with Kyrie, the two J's and Al.
Rozier's most common 5-man unit was with the two J's, Al and Aron.   Here is how they performed:


Unit                                  minutes  possessions   ORtg     DRtg    Net (per 100)
Kyrie+Smart+Jaylen+Jayson+Horford     140       281          116.2   112.7    +3.5
Rozier+Jaylen+Jayson+Horford+Baynes   163       306          111.0   100.3   +10.7

Unfortunately, the 'swap' units of Smart with the two J's, Al & Aron (just 45 minutes) and Rozier with Kyrie, the two J's and Al (just 49 minutes) are both too small to be useful as comparisons. 

Even 200 minute sample sizes are extremely volatile, so much so that they hold no real value as evidence of anything.  You don't get any sort of normalcy until you reach much higher minute totals.  This makes use of an individual 5 man unit negligible because you simply don't have enough evidence to decipher anything from them.

The Offense was better when irving was paired with Smart rather than Rozier.  The defense was also dramatically better when Irving was paired with Smart.  Irving is going to be on the floor a lot and it shouldn't even be a question as to who you would rather have on the floor with him. 

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: IDreamCeltics on July 19, 2018, 06:09:09 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).     

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 19, 2018, 06:48:14 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 19, 2018, 07:48:20 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 19, 2018, 08:10:09 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: mgent on July 19, 2018, 08:10:30 PM
Dude, this team is really good now.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 19, 2018, 08:14:20 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

Website tabloids and instagram models are notorious buttresses of truth in our society.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 19, 2018, 08:17:27 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 19, 2018, 08:18:25 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 19, 2018, 08:20:34 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: slightly biased bias fan on July 19, 2018, 08:24:26 PM
According to Fred Katz of MassLive.com, Smart will be eligible for a $500,000 bonus each season if he meets certain body fat requirements. This basically means that if Smart stays in shape and doesn't somehow become overweight, he can make a half million more per season.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 19, 2018, 08:24:30 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 19, 2018, 08:28:59 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 19, 2018, 08:32:24 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.


Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 19, 2018, 08:33:10 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 19, 2018, 08:35:57 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.


Except that he injured himself and was out for a few weeks.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 19, 2018, 08:40:21 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.


Except that he injured himself and was out for a few weeks.

Yes that was definitely a problem. I was p---ed about that. But the weed thing I never saw and I can't say if it was proven or not and I would guess that 75% of the league smokes some occasionally. What do you think Robert Parish?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: bdm860 on July 19, 2018, 08:41:39 PM
According to Fred Katz of MassLive.com, Smart will be eligible for a $500,000 bonus each season if he meets certain body fat requirements. This basically means that if Smart stays in shape and doesn't somehow become overweight, he can make a half million more per season.

I wouldn't look at it that way, according to this Fred Katz tweet: (https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1020000716440653825)

Quote
Smart's annual money on the 4-year, $52 million deal...

2018-19: $11,660,716
2019-20: $12,553,572
2020-21: $13,446,428
2021-22: $14,339,285

Salaries include a $500K likely bonus for body fat weigh in, per sources.

So the salaries everybody has been talking about already include that bonus.  That means it's a "likely to be achieved bonus" so it's probably Smart's bodyfat % from the start of last season.  If anything I take it to mean the opposite, Smart can lose half million each season.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged topics]
Post by: bogg on July 19, 2018, 08:47:02 PM
I guess this is where I disagree. I don't think he does fill a role that others can't. In the playoffs he got a lot of minutes and had the opportunity to have stretches of being the go to guy for a bucket. I don't believe he did that. I don't think we really play bully ball against smaller lineups which negates his impact at the 4, and he isn't a good 3 pt shooter either. Theis can play the 4 on offense if needed with Al in the post, or Tatum and Hayward if we go small. If we did want a bigger stretch 4 then thats where I think the buyouts come into play, someone like Jared Dudley can fill that role in my eyes.

Morris just kicked in a little over 12 points a night and shot over 40% from three during Boston's playoff run, where he got shoehorned into a bigger role than is ideal because of injuries. He really shouldn't be playing 30 minutes a night, but he did because Boston didn't have better options.

Semi (who I like, but needs more development) averaged a hair under 2 points a night on 30/27% shooting splits over their playoff run.

Theis was a 31% three-point shooter last season, while Morris was a little better than league-average. Theis is also best served as a small center against lineups a little too quick for Baynes, not as the 4 in super-big lineups. He's not a big wing like Morris - Semi's the only other one the team has on the bench (throw Nader in there if you really want, but he's not ready either).


Then there is the locker room atmosphere to consider. I don't think he's the kind of guy who in a contract year would be happy to play minimal minutes in the hope that the right matchup comes along for him in the playoffs. Nor should he be, but that does cause a sticky situation.


If Morris asks out that's something different. No sense keeping an unhappy camper in the locker room if he feels you're messing with his money (which I'd understand).
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: mgent on July 19, 2018, 08:50:34 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.


Except that he injured himself and was out for a few weeks.

Yeah and those few weeks Marcus missed 7 months ago are seriously going to affect how he plays during the next 4 years.

Glad after a half dozen replies of trying to slander Marcus and troll in general, you finally got your point across.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: trickybilly on July 19, 2018, 09:43:55 PM
It feels like such an Avery Bradley contract...

Bit scary at the beginning, but will be one of the most valuable in the league come 2021-2022
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: liam on July 19, 2018, 09:45:34 PM
Isn't this the deal that Marcus and his agent turned down at the beginning of last year?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 19, 2018, 09:46:17 PM
It feels like such an Avery Bradley contract...

Bit scary at the beginning, but will be one of the most valuable in the league come 2021-2022

The final year of Avery Bradley netted us Marcus Morris and we had to send out a second.  Not saying ABs deal was bad — it wasn’t.  But it wasn’t one of the most valuable in the league at any point.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: jambr380 on July 19, 2018, 10:03:57 PM
Isn't this the deal that Marcus and his agent turned down at the beginning of last year?

Basically...or probably, right? I mean, Smart recently said he was worth at least $12-14M/yr - I am not sure what he was asking for last year, but I guess we are all to assume it was more than that.

If he got exactly what the Cs offered last year, then I am a little disappointed in how the negotiations went down. It would be like a buyer (the Cs) offering to buy a house from a seller (Smart), but the seller turning down the offer because he thinks he can get more. Then, after a few months go by with no action on the property, the seller goes back to that buyer and says he will accept the offer. In any normal circumstance, the buyer would realize that the house isn't worth what he/she originally thought and decrease their offer to what the market really says the property is worth.

Last summer, Smart was showing off a new and improved 3-point shot, was in great shape, and we all thought this was the year. This summer, even being given ample opportunity with the Hayward injury, we see that Smart didn't improve his shooting and showed that he can still be a total butt-head (picture frame), but is still expecting (and amazingly getting) the same offer that came last off-season.

Like I said, I am happy to have Smart back and I will live with the (my) perceived overpay of about $2-3M/yr, but I certainly don't think we are all going to look back on this contract and realize what a bargain it was. Smart will just never have the opportunity as the 6th-7th man to prove himself like AB did as a 2nd-3rd option and at least similar All-NBA Defense.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on July 19, 2018, 10:09:48 PM
Danny made the Smart choice.

One of our most important - and unsung - heroes - is now a Celtic through this group's core contender years.

Looking forward to more of THIS

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/3cbf523cb07f1b36f4db924182147246/tenor.gif?itemid=10681710)

And other lunch pail, hard hat intangibles from him.

Every team that is successful has lunch pail, hard hat guys (PJ Tucker, Draymond Green, etc) and we've NOW locked ours up for four years.

Smart move, Danny.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: CelticsElite on July 19, 2018, 10:23:18 PM
Smart had to go to the hospital today

Smart experienced stomach flu-like symptoms earlier this afternoon and is currently receiving IV fluids at New England Baptist Hospital, so the presser is being postponed and he will speak in the coming days.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 19, 2018, 10:39:07 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.


Except that he injured himself and was out for a few weeks.

Yeah and those few weeks Marcus missed 7 months ago are seriously going to affect how he plays during the next 4 years.

Glad after a half dozen replies of trying to slander Marcus and troll in general, you finally got your point across.


No slander, just facts.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 19, 2018, 10:45:17 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.


Except that he injured himself and was out for a few weeks.

Yeah and those few weeks Marcus missed 7 months ago are seriously going to affect how he plays during the next 4 years.

Glad after a half dozen replies of trying to slander Marcus and troll in general, you finally got your point across.


No slander, just facts.

Tabloid "facts"
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 19, 2018, 10:49:29 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.


Except that he injured himself and was out for a few weeks.

Yeah and those few weeks Marcus missed 7 months ago are seriously going to affect how he plays during the next 4 years.

Glad after a half dozen replies of trying to slander Marcus and troll in general, you finally got your point across.


No slander, just facts.

Tabloid "facts"


The first stage of grief is denial.


Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Beat LA on July 19, 2018, 10:51:57 PM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 19, 2018, 11:10:15 PM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Chris22 on July 20, 2018, 01:21:38 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.

You don't see a problem with a guard who shoots in the low 30s and gets $52 million?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: colincb on July 20, 2018, 01:35:52 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.


His shooting and turnovers, both of which are really bad by NBA standards, don't benefit the team.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: hodgy03038 on July 20, 2018, 07:47:38 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.

You don't see a problem with a guard who shoots in the low 30s and gets $52 million?

No I do not see a problem. He's worth every penny of the owners money. It doesn't come out of my pocket. He is a WINNER. Plus for those of you that don't like him - the salary helps if needed to be in a trade for say Anthony Davis or whoever but in the meantime I will go to battle with him over anyone in the same capacity.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: BitterJim on July 20, 2018, 08:03:16 AM
If the deal is truly increasing over time, then that tells me that the team will do whatever it takes to get under the tax this year. If we were planning on paying the tax this year, we would be front loading the contract with 8% drops each year (to decrease our tax bill down the line, since the tax rate increases as you go further over the tax line). Increasing his salary every year means that we want low salary year 1,  and monetarily that makes the most sense if we're trying to avoid the tax.

Edit: Also, if the contract is exactly 4/52 with 8% raises, we can get ~$1 million under the tax line by trading Nader/Yabu/cash/2nds for no salary back (unfortunately, this leaves us about 300k short of resigning Bird to the minimum and staying under the cap)
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: TheSundanceKid on July 20, 2018, 08:34:20 AM
If the deal is truly increasing over time, then that tells me that the team will do whatever it takes to get under the tax this year. If we were planning on paying the tax this year, we would be front loading the contract with 8% drops each year (to decrease our tax bill down the line, since the tax rate increases as you go further over the tax line). Increasing his salary every year means that we want low salary year 1,  and monetarily that makes the most sense if we're trying to avoid the tax.

Edit: Also, if the contract is exactly 4/52 with 8% raises, we can get ~$1 million under the tax line by trading Nader/Yabu/cash/2nds for no salary back (unfortunately, this leaves us about 300k short of resigning Bird to the minimum and staying under the cap)

To me, this for sure means Morris is gone. I don't think we'll rush moving him but I can see a situation where he is packaged with Yab with a rookie scale contract coming back the other way. Somewhere like Denver makes some sense, maybe Portland is they accept the tax.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: cman88 on July 20, 2018, 08:51:59 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.

You don't see a problem with a guard who shoots in the low 30s and gets $52 million?

for a team that isnt contending...sure...but danny is paying Marcus because he envisions us contending this year and in the future and you need to pay for a player like Marcus. Its like Golden state paying Draymond green/Iggy what they do...

Looking at dannys moves this year vs. last it is clear he and management believe we are ready
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Surferdad on July 20, 2018, 08:56:11 AM
If the deal is truly increasing over time, then that tells me that the team will do whatever it takes to get under the tax this year. If we were planning on paying the tax this year, we would be front loading the contract with 8% drops each year (to decrease our tax bill down the line, since the tax rate increases as you go further over the tax line). Increasing his salary every year means that we want low salary year 1,  and monetarily that makes the most sense if we're trying to avoid the tax.

Edit: Also, if the contract is exactly 4/52 with 8% raises, we can get ~$1 million under the tax line by trading Nader/Yabu/cash/2nds for no salary back (unfortunately, this leaves us about 300k short of resigning Bird to the minimum and staying under the cap)

To me, this for sure means Morris is gone. I don't think we'll rush moving him but I can see a situation where he is packaged with Yab with a rookie scale contract coming back the other way. Somewhere like Denver makes some sense, maybe Portland is they accept the tax.
Ainge has been famously quoted as saying we will pay the tax to be a contender, though he may have been referring to 2019-2020 season.  However, if there's a chance to get under the cap this year, I think he tries to do that to avoid repeater tax in 2019-2020, not specifically to get under the tax this season.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Green-18 on July 20, 2018, 09:13:11 AM
I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.

You don't see a problem with a guard who shoots in the low 30s and gets $52 million?

for a team that isnt contending...sure...but danny is paying Marcus because he envisions us contending this year and in the future and you need to pay for a player like Marcus. Its like Golden state paying Draymond green/Iggy what they do...

Looking at dannys moves this year vs. last it is clear he and management believe we are ready

The poor shooting argument has become a lazy fallback argument for Smart haters.  Too many are unwilling to consider statistics that measure team success.

Here's what happens when you use shooting and turnover stats as the only criteria to evaluate a player.  Zach Lavine pre-injury is a PERFECT example.  In 2016-17 he averaged 19 PPG and had a .58 true shooting percentage to go along with only 1.8 TPG.  At face value I would assume that he's an excellent player.  The reality is that he had the worst net rating of every T-Wolves rotation player.  His net rating has been negative every season of his career.

Smart has posted a positive net rating EVERY season of his career.  This includes his rookie season where we didn't have IT until post All-Star break. 

It's amazing that the worst shooter in the NBA has managed to be a net positive regardless of his offensive shortcomings.  I keep trying to explain that his poor offense is the reason he didn't make Lavine or Jabari Parker money.  If Smart shot 35%+ from three then he would be the highest paid 3&D player in the league. 

Stats aside, there's also the fact that every single coach and teammate wants Marcus on their side in big games.  Remember the grin on Rozier's face when he knew that Marcus was coming back for game 5 against the Bucks?  Love him or hate him, Marcus is a major part of this teams identity.
 
 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Fafnir on July 20, 2018, 09:21:10 AM
I don't get the idea that because its a standard structure that the C's must intend to get under the tax this year. Smart and Happy may have not wanted a contract that declined in value for the same money.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 20, 2018, 09:23:09 AM
If the deal is truly increasing over time, then that tells me that the team will do whatever it takes to get under the tax this year. If we were planning on paying the tax this year, we would be front loading the contract with 8% drops each year (to decrease our tax bill down the line, since the tax rate increases as you go further over the tax line). Increasing his salary every year means that we want low salary year 1,  and monetarily that makes the most sense if we're trying to avoid the tax.

Edit: Also, if the contract is exactly 4/52 with 8% raises, we can get ~$1 million under the tax line by trading Nader/Yabu/cash/2nds for no salary back (unfortunately, this leaves us about 300k short of resigning Bird to the minimum and staying under the cap)

To me, this for sure means Morris is gone. I don't think we'll rush moving him but I can see a situation where he is packaged with Yab with a rookie scale contract coming back the other way. Somewhere like Denver makes some sense, maybe Portland is they accept the tax.
Ainge has been famously quoted as saying we will pay the tax to be a contender, though he may have been referring to 2019-2020 season.  However, if there's a chance to get under the cap this year, I think he tries to do that to avoid repeater tax in 2019-2020, not specifically to get under the tax this season.

If the Celtics are in the luxury tax, the earliest they would be eligible for the repeater tax is 2021-2022.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: The_Truth on July 20, 2018, 11:01:52 AM
I'm glad he got paid. Marcus Smart is our best defensive player. Now watch him win us a Playoff series. Some people just like to complain.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 20, 2018, 11:31:07 AM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

I don’t think you understand how much cap space some teams have lined up next summer.  There are 5 teams that look like they’ll have around $55 million of cap space or more, another 4 that will exceed $40 million, and another 4 that will exceed $20 million.  These numbers even take into account the cap holds of some players that teams may desire to retain (Porzingis, Turner, etc), as well as future draft picks. The cap space will be plentiful, and as the cap projects to increase by $14 million over the next two years, not taking into account any additional revenues that could be earned from legalized gambling, it will be a very good year for players who fall between the MLE tier and the star player tier. 
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Roy H. on July 20, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

I don’t think you understand how much cap space some teams have lined up next summer.  There are 5 teams that look like they’ll have around $55 million of cap space or more, another 4 that will exceed $40 million, and another 4 that will exceed $20 million.  These numbers even take into account the cap holds of some players that teams may desire to retain (Porzingis, Turner, etc), as well as future draft picks. The cap space will be plentiful, and as the cap projects to increase by $14 million over the next two years, not taking into account any additional revenues that could be earned from legalized gambling, it will be a very good year for players who fall between the MLE tier and the star player tier.

Yep. It  might be different if NBA owners had any history of financial restraint whatsoever. However, history tells us that teams with space that miss out on premium free agents will simply over spend it on the second and third tier free agents.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: IDreamCeltics on July 20, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

I don’t think you understand how much cap space some teams have lined up next summer.  There are 5 teams that look like they’ll have around $55 million of cap space or more, another 4 that will exceed $40 million, and another 4 that will exceed $20 million.  These numbers even take into account the cap holds of some players that teams may desire to retain (Porzingis, Turner, etc), as well as future draft picks. The cap space will be plentiful, and as the cap projects to increase by $14 million over the next two years, not taking into account any additional revenues that could be earned from legalized gambling, it will be a very good year for players who fall between the MLE tier and the star player tier.

Two questions...

1.  Where are you getting this salary cap projection from?  I have seen that the NBA is reporting the salary cap will increase by less than 2 million next season and then another 7 million the season after that.

2.  Do you think those teams are jockeying to have that cap space available to sign Marcus Smart?  If so... He'll be paid close to what Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving are currently making... Which is - again - fine with me as long as another team has hamstrung itself by grossly overpaying for him and it's not the Celtics. 

12 million next year for Smart isn't the worst thing in the world, but that's also 6 million more than DeMarcus Cousins will be making when he's starting for the Warriors in the playoffs next season.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 20, 2018, 01:05:26 PM
Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

I don’t think you understand how much cap space some teams have lined up next summer.  There are 5 teams that look like they’ll have around $55 million of cap space or more, another 4 that will exceed $40 million, and another 4 that will exceed $20 million.  These numbers even take into account the cap holds of some players that teams may desire to retain (Porzingis, Turner, etc), as well as future draft picks. The cap space will be plentiful, and as the cap projects to increase by $14 million over the next two years, not taking into account any additional revenues that could be earned from legalized gambling, it will be a very good year for players who fall between the MLE tier and the star player tier.

Two questions...

1.  Where are you getting this salary cap projection from?  I have seen that the NBA is reporting the salary cap will increase by less than 2 million next season and then another 7 million the season after that.

2.  Do you think those teams are jockeying to have that cap space available to sign Marcus Smart?  If so... He'll be paid close to what Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving are currently making... Which is - again - fine with me as long as another team has hamstrung itself by grossly overpaying for him and it's not the Celtics. 

12 million next year for Smart isn't the worst thing in the world, but that's also 6 million more than DeMarcus Cousins will be making when he's starting for the Warriors in the playoffs next season.

Quote
Zach Lowe
@ZachLowe_NBA
Very important information buried in the NBA's salary cap memo sent to teams: projection for 2019-20 cap up to $109 million, and then $116 million for 2020-21. Cap is set at $101.9M for upcoming 2018-19 season.
9:42 PM · Jun 30, 2018
https://mobile.twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/1013236385715834880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-3198831166113582923.ampproject.net%2F1531347091169%2Fframe.html (https://mobile.twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/1013236385715834880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-3198831166113582923.ampproject.net%2F1531347091169%2Fframe.html)

As for what teams are jockeying to do with their cap space.  No, they’re probably not clearing it to sign Marcus Smart.  But we’ve seen time and again that when NBA teams miss out on the 5-7 big names in a major free agency summer the response of many is to give a lot of money to rotational players.  With as many teams having space as they do next summer, certainly this play will repeat itself.

And what does it matter about Cousins? The Celtics never chose between Smart and Cousins.  They may have chosen between Baynes and Cousins, but probably not.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: mmmmm on July 20, 2018, 01:27:15 PM

And we're saying even though Marcus has one of the worst offensive ratings in the league the offense is somehow BETTER when he's playing? How in the world does this happen?
I am not saying it, it literally happened last year. When Marcus Smart was on the floor the Celtics offense was more efficient than it was when he was off the court.

This also occurred during the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018/on-off/

Now raw on/off numbers are tricky, but they do indicate that Marcus wasn't some disaster for the C's offense as you believe.

Yeah ... um ... you really have to take these numbers with a GIGANTIC grain of salt unless you actually dive into the details.

For example, you need to consider things like, when Marcus was on the floor about half  (48%) the time Kyrie was also on the floor.  For Rozier, Kyrie shared the floor with him on just 22% of the time.   

Sharing the floor more often with a guy who is not only an elite 60% TS high efficiency scorer but also a very high, greater than 30% USG scorer, will tend to do wonders for your offensive rating.


                 minutes poss   ORtg     DRtg    Net (per 100)
Marcus w/ Irving    837  1667   117.4   104.6    +12.8
Marcus w/o Irving   936  1827   103.8   103.5     +0.3

Rozier w/ Irving    531  1049   112.4   109.5     +2.9
Rozier w/o Irving  1900  3689   108.4   105.7     +2.7


It's important to really look at the details of who is sharing the floor with a player when looking at ORtg and DRtg and on/off number. 

I think it's important to look at actual 5-man data to see what it tells you.  The difficulty there is getting samples of sufficient size.

Marcus' most commonly used 5-man unit was with Kyrie, the two J's and Al.
Rozier's most common 5-man unit was with the two J's, Al and Aron.   Here is how they performed:


Unit                                  minutes  possessions   ORtg     DRtg    Net (per 100)
Kyrie+Smart+Jaylen+Jayson+Horford     140       281          116.2   112.7    +3.5
Rozier+Jaylen+Jayson+Horford+Baynes   163       306          111.0   100.3   +10.7

Unfortunately, the 'swap' units of Smart with the two J's, Al & Aron (just 45 minutes) and Rozier with Kyrie, the two J's and Al (just 49 minutes) are both too small to be useful as comparisons. 

Even 200 minute sample sizes are extremely volatile, so much so that they hold no real value as evidence of anything.  You don't get any sort of normalcy until you reach much higher minute totals.  This makes use of an individual 5 man unit negligible because you simply don't have enough evidence to decipher anything from them.

The Offense was better when irving was paired with Smart rather than Rozier. The defense was also dramatically better when Irving was paired with Smart.

But was the offense better because Irving was paid with Smart?  Or was it because of who else was on the floor?

Outside of Kyrie, it's pretty clear that the best offensive players (when you consider both volume and efficiency) on last year's squad were Horford, Jayson, Jaylen, Morris and to a lesser extent, Rozier.

When Kyrie and Smart were on the floor,  the other three guys were exclusively from that group 38% of the time (most of that was, in fact from the first three names mentioned).

When Kyrie and Rozier were on the floor, the other three guys were exclusively from that group just 19% of the time.   A much larger percentage of the time was shared with guys like Smart, Baynes, Semi, Theis,Nader, etc.

And certainly, the defense of the KI+MS twosome was better -- for largely the same reason.  Having Al Horford, Jaylen Brown on the floor for most of that is a fearsome defensive thing.  The Kyrie+Smart+Jaylen+Horford foursome gave up just 104.1 points per 100.  But I mean, the Kyrie+Rozier+Jaylen+Horford 4-man unit gave up just 103.1 points per 100 itself.  It's just a small sample, though and only a small portion of Rozier's time on the floor.

Quote
Irving is going to be on the floor a lot and it shouldn't even be a question as to who you would rather have on the floor with him.

This I agree with.  The guys who you should most want to see on the floor next to Kyrie at the 2 spot are Jaylen or Gordon.    Not Smart or Rozier.   Because both Jaylen and Gordon are way, way, way more talented wings than either Smart or Rozier.

In our current depth chart, those two guys have to be considered ahead of either Smart or Rozier at the 2.   Smart and Rozier have to be considered fighting for the 3rd string role at the 2.   And frankly, given his size advantage on defense, it's easy to give Smart the nod there.

The real question is, who do you consider the backup at the 1?   Rozier proved to be pretty good at the 1 this last Spring.   

I don't claim to speak for Brad, but my depth chart would look something like this:

1:  Irving, Rozier, Smart, Wanamaker
2:  Brown/Hayward, Smart, Rozier, Nader, Wanamaker
3:  Hayward/Tatum, Brown, Morris, Semi, Nader
4:  Tatum/Horford, Theis, Morris, Yabusele, Semi
5:  Horford/Baynes, Theis, Yabusele, Williams

The name1/name2 first entries indicate that either guy could be the starter at that spot depending on whether we are starting small or starting big.   
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Cman on July 20, 2018, 09:59:09 PM
Can anyone let me know: what are the implications of the M Smart contract for bringing back Jabari Bird?

Sorry if it’s buried somewhere on page 62 and I missed it....
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: saltlover on July 20, 2018, 11:11:19 PM
Can anyone let me know: what are the implications of the M Smart contract for bringing back Jabari Bird?

Sorry if it’s buried somewhere on page 62 and I missed it....

The Celtics will probably wait until they’ve sorted out Nader, who fully guarantees on July 31st, before moving forward with Bird.  So wait 10-14 more days I think.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 22, 2018, 11:59:31 AM
...  The guys who you should most want to see on the floor next to Kyrie at the 2 spot are Jaylen or Gordon.    Not Smart or Rozier.   Because both Jaylen and Gordon are way, way, way more talented wings than either Smart or Rozier.

Just what does "2 spot" mean here? Because if it means, "the player who guards the opponent's smaller wing", then I'd agree with you about Jaylen but not about Gordon.

In our current depth chart, those two guys have to be considered ahead of either Smart or Rozier at the 2.   Smart and Rozier have to be considered fighting for the 3rd string role at the 2.   And frankly, given his size advantage on defense, it's easy to give Smart the nod there.

This 1-5 business doesn't hold up very well in today's game, and particularly not with today's Celtics.

Smart played nearly all of his minutes paired with either Irving or Rozier. The roles shifted when he was on the court; they became more shooters/scorers while he took on more responsibility for creating offense (we all noticed, I bet, that Brad likes him posting up a lot). So was Smart the "1" when he was in? Not really, in my opinion. He wasn't mostly guarding point guards; in fact he was a lot more likely to guard up.

1-5 is an abstract scheme. It's more useful to fit the scheme to the players rather than the players to the scheme, but even then not everything will work.

The real question is, who do you consider the backup at the 1?   Rozier proved to be pretty good at the 1 this last Spring.   

Rozier is/was the backup, I agree.

...but my depth chart would look something like this:

1:  Irving, Rozier, Smart, Wanamaker
2:  Brown/Hayward, Smart, Rozier, Nader, Wanamaker
3:  Hayward/Tatum, Brown, Morris, Semi, Nader
4:  Tatum/Horford, Theis, Morris, Yabusele, Semi
5:  Horford/Baynes, Theis, Yabusele, Williams

The name1/name2 first entries indicate that either guy could be the starter at that spot depending on whether we are starting small or starting big.

Again, I don't think that it makes sense to have Smart in the depth chart at 1, or Hayward at 2.

Wanamaker at the 2 is dubious; it's likely that we'd see him paired with Rozier or possibly Irving at times (often, in fact), but that's to give those two a break from creating shots so that they can play off the ball, as we saw with Larkin last year - and Larkin always guarded the smaller player. Now Wanamaker is bigger and, we may hope, less exploitable and more versatile on defense than Larkin was, so it'll be interesting to see if he guards wings when he's in with Rozier or Irving. But he'll almost certainly be the primary ball handler when he's on the floor.

With the return of Hayward, I'd bet that the wing minutes for Morris and Ojeleye get reduced. It's true that Morris got minutes in two-big lineups last season, and Ojeleye got a fair number of wing minutes with Morris in big/swing lineups - those won't disappear completely. It's a long season, and the matchup chess match combined with the inevitable injuries means that there will be all sorts of unpredictable and exotic combinations. It will sure be interesting to see if Hayward gets swing minutes; I think that Tatum showed he could take that role, even as a rail-thin rookie; and that's the best role for Morris and Ojeleye.

Your putting Yabusele ahead of Ojeleye at "4" is puzzling; Semi played the bulk of his minutes there last year, and played rotation minutes, while Yabu was in and out of the G-League. How "good" those two are is a hotly debated topic around here, but you aren't actually claiming that Yabusele is the better player - or are you?
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: mmmmm on July 22, 2018, 01:22:48 PM
...  The guys who you should most want to see on the floor next to Kyrie at the 2 spot are Jaylen or Gordon.    Not Smart or Rozier.   Because both Jaylen and Gordon are way, way, way more talented wings than either Smart or Rozier.

Just what does "2 spot" mean here? Because if it means, "the player who guards the opponent's smaller wing", then I'd agree with you about Jaylen but not about Gordon.

In our current depth chart, those two guys have to be considered ahead of either Smart or Rozier at the 2.   Smart and Rozier have to be considered fighting for the 3rd string role at the 2.   And frankly, given his size advantage on defense, it's easy to give Smart the nod there.

This 1-5 business doesn't hold up very well in today's game, and particularly not with today's Celtics.


Excuse me?  Did the NBA suddenly allow the Celtics to play a different number of players than 5?

I specifically used the 1-5 nomenclature because I know some fans here think that the concepts of "PG, SG, SF, PF & C" are no longer useable terms.  But whether you want to call them by those terms or "ball handlers, wings, swings & bigs" there are still 5 positions that need to be played.

Quote



...but my depth chart would look something like this:

1:  Irving, Rozier, Smart, Wanamaker
2:  Brown/Hayward, Smart, Rozier, Nader, Wanamaker
3:  Hayward/Tatum, Brown, Morris, Semi, Nader
4:  Tatum/Horford, Theis, Morris, Yabusele, Semi
5:  Horford/Baynes, Theis, Yabusele, Williams

The name1/name2 first entries indicate that either guy could be the starter at that spot depending on whether we are starting small or starting big.

Again, I don't think that it makes sense to have Smart in the depth chart at 1, or Hayward at 2.

I won't argue about Smart being a 1.   But we are talking 3rd string here.

Gordon Hayward has spent almost all of his NBA career playing either the '2' or '3' in Utah.

He split his time almost equally between those two position his last year there.  He can definitely play the 2.

Quote
Wanamaker at the 2 is dubious;

Again I'm not going to argue over Wanamaker.  Until something changes (injury, emergence) he's not likely to get anything but garbage minutes.  But he's 6' 4", 210 lbs.  He can play the 2.
Quote

With the return of Hayward, I'd bet that the wing minutes for Morris and Ojeleye get reduced.

This seems likely.
Quote

Your putting Yabusele ahead of Ojeleye at "4" is puzzling; Semi played the bulk of his minutes there last year, and played rotation minutes, while Yabu was in and out of the G-League. How "good" those two are is a hotly debated topic around here, but you aren't actually claiming that Yabusele is the better player - or are you?

Nope.  Just seeing him as more of a pure "4" than Semi.  Arguing over whether he is ahead/behind Semi on the depth chart is splitting 3rd/4th string hairs.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: bellerephon on July 22, 2018, 10:20:00 PM
Brad tends to employ a flexible approach to lineups and is not strictly tied to the 1-5 system. Arguing over who is ahead of whom on the depth chart at each position is not all that useful. Brad looks instead at groups that work well together. The starting five will likely be Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford. Smart, Rozier, Morris, Baynes, and Theis will be the main bench players. Semi may also work himself into the rotation, but I am doubtful of that until he shows that he can hit the three. I suspect he'll get most of his minutes filling in when guys are in foul trouble or out with injury.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: mmmmm on July 22, 2018, 10:47:08 PM
Brad tends to employ a flexible approach to lineups and is not strictly tied to the 1-5 system.

What does this mean?  Are you suggesting he's not going to play 5 players at a time?

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Somebody on July 22, 2018, 11:13:17 PM
Brad tends to employ a flexible approach to lineups and is not strictly tied to the 1-5 system.

What does this mean?  Are you suggesting he's not going to play 5 players at a time?
He means the traditional 5 positions: PG, SG, SF, PF, C.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Roy H. on July 22, 2018, 11:14:13 PM
Brad tends to employ a flexible approach to lineups and is not strictly tied to the 1-5 system.

What does this mean?  Are you suggesting he's not going to play 5 players at a time?

I'm not understanding your argument, which you've made several times.

The 1 - 5 system means something fairly specific:  five players playing five distinct positions, 1 - point guard, 2 - shooting guard, 3 - small forward, 4 - power forward, 5 - center

It doesn't mean "5 players", it means five positions.  It means traditional basketball, which clearly isn't the system Brad prefers.  He's a "ball handlers, wings, bigs" coach.  Three positions, rather than five.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: bellerephon on July 23, 2018, 11:50:26 AM
Brad tends to employ a flexible approach to lineups and is not strictly tied to the 1-5 system.

What does this mean?  Are you suggesting he's not going to play 5 players at a time?
What I mean is that Brad is not often going to play a point guard, shooting guard, small forward, big forward and center. He often plays a ball handler, a big, and three wings. Sometimes two ball handlers, two wings and a big. Sometimes a ball handler and four wings. Sometimes a ball handler, two bigs, and two wings. I could go on but you get the idea.

My point is that it does not help all that much to worry about the depth chart with respect to traditional positions. It does not matter whether Theis is ahead of Morris at the 4 or not. Brad will play the lineup that is working well together and that fits the opponent and situation.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: mmmmm on July 23, 2018, 03:33:36 PM
Call the positions whatever you want.   Brad is still going to deploy 5 players at a time.

And they are still generally going to break down across two spectrums:  One of size/athleticism and the other of ball-handling/playmaking skill.    The size axis is driven by the opponents you have to defend while the skill axis is driven by how you want to attack.   Where each player fits in those two axis determines the roles they can play.

And Brad is still going to give more minutes to some players for each given role on the floor than he is to others.

Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: smokeablount on July 23, 2018, 03:57:00 PM
I LOVE MAHHHHHHCUS!!!!
-Tommy Heinsohn
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: csfansince60s on July 23, 2018, 04:19:37 PM
I LOVE MAHHHHHHCUS!!!!
-Tommy Heinsohn

I agree with Tommy.

Smart is the heart and soul of this team.

His fierceness sets the tone for the team and holds others accountable both by word and deed.

Mahhhcus Smahhht!...........Winnahhh!
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: dreamgreen on September 03, 2018, 08:13:02 AM
Well I was moving the week this happened and totally missed it! I'm not a big fan of Smart and I think Danny did an odd move here and overpaid. I assume it's because the cap is going to jump again? I don't see how we keep everyone going forward I mean if Smart breaks us on keeping Kyrie, Brown or Tatum I will hate him for life!

Guess we have to wait and see what happens going forward and watch the brick show.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: gouki88 on September 03, 2018, 08:22:54 AM
Well I was moving the week this happened and totally missed it! I'm not a big fan of Smart and I think Danny did an odd move here and overpaid. I assume it's because the cap is going to jump again? I don't see how we keep everyone going forward I mean if Smart breaks us on keeping Kyrie, Brown or Tatum I will hate him for life!

Guess we have to wait and see what happens going forward and watch the brick show.
Maybe a trade chip ;)

On the one hand, I love his hustle, energy and leadership. But man his scoring is awful
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: dreamgreen on September 03, 2018, 08:34:49 AM
Well I was moving the week this happened and totally missed it! I'm not a big fan of Smart and I think Danny did an odd move here and overpaid. I assume it's because the cap is going to jump again? I don't see how we keep everyone going forward I mean if Smart breaks us on keeping Kyrie, Brown or Tatum I will hate him for life!

Guess we have to wait and see what happens going forward and watch the brick show.
Maybe a trade chip ;)

On the one hand, I love his hustle, energy and leadership. But man his scoring is awful

Yea I'm not trying to hate on the guy. I want him to succeed and he brings a lot to the table but IMO he's negatives equal his positives. If he comes in and just plays within himself and doesn't force shots I like him. But when he starts jacking up shots like he's the number one option out there it makes me want to throw up! With our roster he should be the 4th or 5th option and I'm not convinced he gets that.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Androslav on September 03, 2018, 08:52:06 AM
Well I was moving the week this happened and totally missed it! I'm not a big fan of Smart and I think Danny did an odd move here and overpaid. I assume it's because the cap is going to jump again? I don't see how we keep everyone going forward I mean if Smart breaks us on keeping Kyrie, Brown or Tatum I will hate him for life!

Guess we have to wait and see what happens going forward and watch the brick show.
Maybe a trade chip ;)

On the one hand, I love his hustle, energy and leadership. But man his scoring is awful

Yea I'm not trying to hate on the guy. I want him to succeed and he brings a lot to the table but IMO he's negatives equal his positives. If he comes in and just plays within himself and doesn't force shots I like him. But when he starts jacking up shots like he's the number one option out there it makes me want to throw up! With our roster he should be the 4th or 5th option and I'm not convinced he gets that.
He is by no means a perfect player.
But you don't go for a championship by removing the parts that got you to contention.
Marcus is still our best perimeter defender, he generally makes good decisions with the ball, is the longest-tenured Celtic and at a reasonable (tradeable) salary.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: Big333223 on September 04, 2018, 10:22:41 AM
There's a piece on CelticsBlog right now about who the closing5 should be and there's a nice paragraph about the end of Game 5 against Philly in there, where the Celtics were down by 2 with a minute to go:

Quote
Then Marcus Smart happened.

In the span of sixty seconds, he tied up the game on an offensive rebound put back, generated a turnover on the defensive end to ignite the Celtics’ secondary break, assisted on what would be the game-winning bucket, unintentionally made a free throw, and intercepted the 76ers’ hail mary to end the game.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/9/2/17803526/closers-boston-celtics-marcus-smart-al-horford-jaylen-brown-jayson-tatum-kyrie-irving-gordon-hayward

It really was an amazing sequence. The guy makes good things happen when he's on the court and inspires the players around him. So happy to have him back.
Title: Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
Post by: trickybilly on September 04, 2018, 11:35:12 AM
I still believe he will turn the corner with his 3 point shooting...