Grant Williams decision revisited

[Silas]

I still don't miss his game or his mouth.

[Celtics2021]

They essentially got Xavier Tillman and Jaden Springer for Grant Williams and Mohamed Gueye.  Ultimately it will depend somewhat on what Tillman and Springer bring going forward, but I thought I’d miss Grant more than I do.

[Big333223]

I do think Grant being unceremoniously shipped out and Dallas needing to send Seth Curry and a 1st just to bring back a role player reflects well on Brad's decision not to pay him. Brad getting two 2nds for Grant and now turning around and getting Tillman for two 2nds feels pretty good. Tillman obviously isn't the shooter Grant is but I think he has an opportunity to have a bigger defensive impact and be more of what the team needs. We'll see how it pans out.

Now I'm seeing a flurry of reports that Dallas wanted Grant gone because no one liked him. I always wondered if he was more of a locker room problem in Boston than the C's let on.

[Roy H.]

They essentially got Xavier Tillman and Jaden Springer for Grant Williams and Mohamed Gueye.  Ultimately it will depend somewhat on what Tillman and Springer bring going forward, but I thought I’d miss Grant more than I do.

I still wish we'd taken TJD.  We could have used a different pick for Tillman.

[Celtics2021]

They essentially got Xavier Tillman and Jaden Springer for Grant Williams and Mohamed Gueye.  Ultimately it will depend somewhat on what Tillman and Springer bring going forward, but I thought I’d miss Grant more than I do.

I still wish we'd taken TJD.  We could have used a different pick for Tillman.

For what it’s worth, he’s fallen out of the Warriors rotation recently.

[Roy H.]

They essentially got Xavier Tillman and Jaden Springer for Grant Williams and Mohamed Gueye.  Ultimately it will depend somewhat on what Tillman and Springer bring going forward, but I thought I’d miss Grant more than I do.

I still wish we'd taken TJD.  We could have used a different pick for Tillman.

For what it’s worth, he’s fallen out of the Warriors rotation recently.

Yeah, I don't think he'd have a lot of playing time for us in year one. But, I like his potential.

[Who]

So (1) Dallas wanted PJ Washington last summer, and, (2) Charlotte wanted Grant Williams last summer.

Not sure why Dallas are giving up a pick here.

[green_bballers13]

I still don't miss his game or his mouth.

I agree. Loud and good works, as does quiet and average. Loud and average doesn't work.

Apparently he's smart, kinda nerdy, and talks a lot.

I will always remember his 7 3's against the Bucks in Game 7. He won that game for the Celtics.

[Indocelts]

I don't miss him at all.

He is a hard working player with a limited skill (3pt shot), but he is a smart and he  knows how to sell his "value" by going the extra miles as to be active in the NBAPA, being a ref in the summer league, talkative on the court, just to make others see him.

He would have been a very good sales director had he chosen to work in a company.

That being said, i don't think he will last long in the NBA. He already got his $53M, but it will be very hard to get another contract like that in the future.

[celticsclay]

Yeah I ran the numbers somewhere and Grant's contract put him in the 4th highest on a team, but that doesn't account for rookies.  I think it is something like 2 rookies start on average, which bumps him to 6th on a team.  Grant got rotation player/spot starter money.  That is what he is and his minutes, even in Dallas reflect that.

The real issue he had in Dallas is he wasn't shooting well after the first couple weeks of the season.

How can 2 rookies start on average?  That would be 60 rookies starting on 30 teams.  I guess you mean on average 2 on rookie contracts are starting?  That seems possible but still high.

At any rate, I still think that DAL signed Grant thinking he was going to be a starter and he was a starter, until they realized he wasn't that good.  The Celtics didn't see him as a starter so they likely were offering less.  I suspect that moving forward, teams will use their NT-MLE (those that have one) on players that are expected to be starters, just like DAL did with Grant.

It is certainly true that teams resigning their own may pay more for a bench player, especially contending teams, but I don't think we are going to see all that much of that.  There will be top teams where all the starters make more than Grant, but that will be more the exception than the rule.  There will be 2-3 max or super max contracts, there will be a couple in the NT-MLE range or lower, and there will be rookie or min deals to fill out the roster.  That is how the CBA is going to force teams to build their rosters.

If teams are paying more than that for their bench players, they just aren't going to be able to remain competitive.

I think this is all pretty fair. The middle class is screwed by the super max contracts. There will definitely be cheap starters in a lot of teams. Also, I do believe Mo meant rookie contracts not actual rookies so 2 a team may be a little high, but plausible.

[tenn_smoothie]

Guess I should have made a poll but doesn’t seem like anyone feels we blew it let letting him walk

I thought letting him go and getting very little in return was the problem. Though, as Roy pointed out, we ended up making good use of those marginal draft picks. Grant would have been an asset for the Celts this season if 1) Joe had given him back his regular minutes and 2) he would have been willing to accept less money. Seems the $$ was his #1 priority.

So his shooting dropped off this year ? Any speculation as to why ?

[cman88]

Yeah I ran the numbers somewhere and Grant's contract put him in the 4th highest on a team, but that doesn't account for rookies.  I think it is something like 2 rookies start on average, which bumps him to 6th on a team.  Grant got rotation player/spot starter money.  That is what he is and his minutes, even in Dallas reflect that.

The real issue he had in Dallas is he wasn't shooting well after the first couple weeks of the season.

How can 2 rookies start on average?  That would be 60 rookies starting on 30 teams.  I guess you mean on average 2 on rookie contracts are starting?  That seems possible but still high.

At any rate, I still think that DAL signed Grant thinking he was going to be a starter and he was a starter, until they realized he wasn't that good.  The Celtics didn't see him as a starter so they likely were offering less.  I suspect that moving forward, teams will use their NT-MLE (those that have one) on players that are expected to be starters, just like DAL did with Grant.

It is certainly true that teams resigning their own may pay more for a bench player, especially contending teams, but I don't think we are going to see all that much of that.  There will be top teams where all the starters make more than Grant, but that will be more the exception than the rule.  There will be 2-3 max or super max contracts, there will be a couple in the NT-MLE range or lower, and there will be rookie or min deals to fill out the roster.  That is how the CBA is going to force teams to build their rosters.

If teams are paying more than that for their bench players, they just aren't going to be able to remain competitive.

I think this is all pretty fair. The middle class is screwed by the super max contracts. There will definitely be cheap starters in a lot of teams. Also, I do believe Mo meant rookie contracts not actual rookies so 2 a team may be a little high, but plausible.

I wonder if the NBA realizes what they are creating by on one hand saying they want to pay superstars ridiculous sums on a supermax contract.

but on the other hand, punish teams for paying guys those contracts....

what ultimately ends up happening in reality is that teams will still pay the top end players. and then the middle class guys instead of seeing their salaries rise will end up seeing their salaries cut. guys like fred van fleet wont make $40million (which was kind of ridiculous) they will end up seeing their salaries drastically cut as teams prioritize who they want

same thing is happening in the NFL. Quarterback salaries are going through the roof. teams just are saying "nah we not gonna pay you guys" to certain positions as they allocate their funds.

while the leagues want to create more parity. what ultimately ends up happening is it creates a top-down roster where you have extremely highly paid guys. and guys being paid nothing. and if it works you just get a mediocre/worse product (see how many bad NFL games there are. even the chiefs weren't that great this year)

[Big333223]

I still don't miss his game or his mouth.

I agree. Loud and good works, as does quiet and average. Loud and average doesn't work.

Apparently he's smart, kinda nerdy, and talks a lot.

I will always remember his 7 3's against the Bucks in Game 7. He won that game for the Celtics.

What I remember is Milwaukee giving him practice shots all night and he shot worse than his season average on 3's. I remember him looking tentative and scared of the moment. It's actually the game that turned me off Grant.

[cman88]

back to the topic at hand, i always thought Grant was over-rated. sometimes we as celtics fans tend to vastly over-rate our role players.

his reputation is largely built on our finals run where he defended giannis/Embid decently and had that huge game 7. somehow even though he was benched last year and didn't have much of an impact in the ECF against Miami it tricked Dallas into thinking he was a viable starter.

the only thing i'll criticize is I think we should've gotten more back.

[SHAQATTACK]

Big Baby