All Aboard the Rozier Train...I guess

[celticinorlando]

Rather have Rubio than Rozier. Would rather let Hayward run the offense.

[footey]

Rather have Rubio than Rozier. Would rather let Hayward run the offense.

Why can’t Hayward run the offense and Terry play off the ball which is his more natural fit. He can guard the other team’s PG. Return Marcus Smart to the bench as 6th man. Could work. Just need another power forward or center and move Al to the 4.

[footey]

Rather have Rubio than Rozier. Would rather let Hayward run the offense.

Why can’t Hayward run the offense and Terry play off the ball which is his more natural fit. He can guard the other team’s PG. Return Marcus Smart to the bench as 6th man. Could work. Just need another power forward or center and move Al to the 4.

I’m assuming no Kyrie and no Davis.

[ScoobyDoo]

I tried to find the Celtics record with and without Irving the last two years but couldn’t and don’t have time to run through it. However, wasn’t it notably better with Rozier starting over Irving.  Further, not only was the record better, but didn’t the team just look so much better, everyone involved and just the energy on both ends of the floor. A particularly memorable game was the win in Philly this year with Rozier starting. I wonder how good this team would be with AD in the middles and a Rozier and Rubio or George Hill mid level back up PG rotation?...

[PAOBoston]

No to Rozier. Bad defender. Bad shooter. Selfish player. Time to move on from him.

[Who]

I tried to find the Celtics record with and without Irving the last two years but couldn’t and don’t have time to run through it. However, wasn’t it notably better with Rozier starting over Irving.  Further, not only was the record better, but didn’t the team just look so much better, everyone involved and just the energy on both ends of the floor. A particularly memorable game was the win in Philly this year with Rozier starting. I wonder how good this team would be with AD in the middles and a Rozier and Rubio or George Hill mid level back up PG rotation?...

Title contender

[jambr380]

I tried to find the Celtics record with and without Irving the last two years but couldn’t and don’t have time to run through it. However, wasn’t it notably better with Rozier starting over Irving.  Further, not only was the record better, but didn’t the team just look so much better, everyone involved and just the energy on both ends of the floor. A particularly memorable game was the win in Philly this year with Rozier starting. I wonder how good this team would be with AD in the middles and a Rozier and Rubio or George Hill mid level back up PG rotation?...

If I recall correctly, many of the games Irving sat out - at least this season - were planned as we were playing much lesser teams. As everybody knows, that hardly guaranteed a W this past season, but our record and his stats with Terry starting are probably slightly indicative of that lesser competition.

We need a Point Guard, someone who can dribble, distribute, penetrate, and be a reliable shooter. 

We don't need Rozier, a guy who can't dribble, has minimal court vision, is an unreliable shooter, and absolutely zero basketball intuition.  He's a very good athlete masquerading as a basketball player, which he might get away with he if played power forward or something.  The only thing he's good as is rebounding for a guy his size.  I'll be pretty annoyed if we have to watch him lead an offense at all in 2020

He can score too.  He can drive to the hoop. 

My only advice is:  Be careful what you wish for.  PG's who do everything the right way but don't really stand out at all can be very tiresome.  At full minutes, Rozier makes a few plays every game that make you say wow.  I can agree he did not perform well as a backup this year, but that's a silly reason to throw him off the team if it doesn't cost much to match. 

Rozier's critics seem to want him gone even if he's cheap.  Big mistake.  He will turn back into a decent player and or a good asset. 

This is kind-of my take, as well. There are no guarantees in life, but I'd be willing to be bet that Terry would be much more engaged if given a bigger role. I just don't think he and Kyrie got along at all.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I tried to find the Celtics record with and without Irving the last two years but couldn’t and don’t have time to run through it. However, wasn’t it notably better with Rozier starting over Irving.  Further, not only was the record better, but didn’t the team just look so much better, everyone involved and just the energy on both ends of the floor. A particularly memorable game was the win in Philly this year with Rozier starting. I wonder how good this team would be with AD in the middles and a Rozier and Rubio or George Hill mid level back up PG rotation?...

If I recall correctly, many of the games Irving sat out - at least this season - were planned as we were playing much lesser teams. As everybody knows, that hardly guaranteed a W this past season, but our record and his stats with Terry starting are probably slightly indicative of that lesser competition.

We need a Point Guard, someone who can dribble, distribute, penetrate, and be a reliable shooter. 

We don't need Rozier, a guy who can't dribble, has minimal court vision, is an unreliable shooter, and absolutely zero basketball intuition.  He's a very good athlete masquerading as a basketball player, which he might get away with he if played power forward or something.  The only thing he's good as is rebounding for a guy his size.  I'll be pretty annoyed if we have to watch him lead an offense at all in 2020

He can score too.  He can drive to the hoop. 

My only advice is:  Be careful what you wish for.  PG's who do everything the right way but don't really stand out at all can be very tiresome.  At full minutes, Rozier makes a few plays every game that make you say wow.  I can agree he did not perform well as a backup this year, but that's a silly reason to throw him off the team if it doesn't cost much to match. 

Rozier's critics seem to want him gone even if he's cheap.  Big mistake.  He will turn back into a decent player and or a good asset. 

This is kind-of my take, as well. There are no guarantees in life, but I'd be willing to be bet that Terry would be much more engaged if given a bigger role. I just don't think he and Kyrie got along at all.

Why? Rozier has said the opposite. Maybe he has been lying about it but he has been honest this offseason and hasn't said it yet. He said it was difficult adjusting to Ky but that was about how the offense was around him. I know he hinted at some things but why is no one assuming it's CBS he took issue with? because CBS controlled his play time and his usage.

[LarBrd33]

I tried to find the Celtics record with and without Irving the last two years but couldn’t and don’t have time to run through it. However, wasn’t it notably better with Rozier starting over Irving.  Further, not only was the record better, but didn’t the team just look so much better, everyone involved and just the energy on both ends of the floor. A particularly memorable game was the win in Philly this year with Rozier starting. I wonder how good this team would be with AD in the middles and a Rozier and Rubio or George Hill mid level back up PG rotation?...

If I recall correctly, many of the games Irving sat out - at least this season - were planned as we were playing much lesser teams. As everybody knows, that hardly guaranteed a W this past season, but our record and his stats with Terry starting are probably slightly indicative of that lesser competition.

We need a Point Guard, someone who can dribble, distribute, penetrate, and be a reliable shooter. 

We don't need Rozier, a guy who can't dribble, has minimal court vision, is an unreliable shooter, and absolutely zero basketball intuition.  He's a very good athlete masquerading as a basketball player, which he might get away with he if played power forward or something.  The only thing he's good as is rebounding for a guy his size.  I'll be pretty annoyed if we have to watch him lead an offense at all in 2020

He can score too.  He can drive to the hoop. 

My only advice is:  Be careful what you wish for.  PG's who do everything the right way but don't really stand out at all can be very tiresome.  At full minutes, Rozier makes a few plays every game that make you say wow.  I can agree he did not perform well as a backup this year, but that's a silly reason to throw him off the team if it doesn't cost much to match. 

Rozier's critics seem to want him gone even if he's cheap.  Big mistake.  He will turn back into a decent player and or a good asset. 

This is kind-of my take, as well. There are no guarantees in life, but I'd be willing to be bet that Terry would be much more engaged if given a bigger role. I just don't think he and Kyrie got along at all.

It's not that Rozier and Kyrie don't get along.  Rozier has consistently said Kyrie is like a brother to him and he has a ton of respect for him.  Rozier has had nothing but praise for Kyrie's talent and leadership.

It's that Rozier thinks of himself as Kyrie's equal is and angry he is in a backup role behind Kyrie.  Rozier has flat out admitted that he saw his own teammates as his competition when he was on the court, because they had what he wanted (minutes/roles)... he also whined that he sacrificed more than anyone on the team.  It's that Rozier has a fat ego having lead the team on a fluke 2018 playoff run and thinks of himself as a star-level player unfairly buried on a bench.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I tried to find the Celtics record with and without Irving the last two years but couldn’t and don’t have time to run through it. However, wasn’t it notably better with Rozier starting over Irving.  Further, not only was the record better, but didn’t the team just look so much better, everyone involved and just the energy on both ends of the floor. A particularly memorable game was the win in Philly this year with Rozier starting. I wonder how good this team would be with AD in the middles and a Rozier and Rubio or George Hill mid level back up PG rotation?...

If I recall correctly, many of the games Irving sat out - at least this season - were planned as we were playing much lesser teams. As everybody knows, that hardly guaranteed a W this past season, but our record and his stats with Terry starting are probably slightly indicative of that lesser competition.

We need a Point Guard, someone who can dribble, distribute, penetrate, and be a reliable shooter. 

We don't need Rozier, a guy who can't dribble, has minimal court vision, is an unreliable shooter, and absolutely zero basketball intuition.  He's a very good athlete masquerading as a basketball player, which he might get away with he if played power forward or something.  The only thing he's good as is rebounding for a guy his size.  I'll be pretty annoyed if we have to watch him lead an offense at all in 2020

He can score too.  He can drive to the hoop. 

My only advice is:  Be careful what you wish for.  PG's who do everything the right way but don't really stand out at all can be very tiresome.  At full minutes, Rozier makes a few plays every game that make you say wow.  I can agree he did not perform well as a backup this year, but that's a silly reason to throw him off the team if it doesn't cost much to match. 

Rozier's critics seem to want him gone even if he's cheap.  Big mistake.  He will turn back into a decent player and or a good asset. 

This is kind-of my take, as well. There are no guarantees in life, but I'd be willing to be bet that Terry would be much more engaged if given a bigger role. I just don't think he and Kyrie got along at all.

It's not that Rozier and Kyrie don't get along.  Rozier has consistently said Kyrie is like a brother to him and he has a ton of respect for him.  Rozier has had nothing but praise for Kyrie's talent and leadership.

It's that Rozier thinks of himself as Kyrie's equal is and angry he is in a backup role behind Kyrie.  Rozier has flat out admitted that he saw his own teammates as his competition when he was on the court, because they had what he wanted (minutes/roles)... he also whined that he sacrificed more than anyone on the team.  It's that Rozier has a fat ego having lead the team on a fluke 2018 playoff run and thinks of himself as a star-level player unfairly buried on a bench.

TY! This was what I was saying but you spelled it out better!

[jambr380]

Okay, I should clarify - and maybe you guys already did it for me - but I should say that having Kyrie here didn't make Rozier very happy. Even though they apparently liked each other as individuals, Terry never got over the fact that he led a team to the ECF and now was like 8th-9th man in the rotation. One of his greatest traits is his ridiculous confidence; that obviously took a hit going to the bench where his play was less than stellar.

And I will also agree that Rozier in no way the main reason for that ECF run that could have easily ended after round 1. I would put Horford, Tatum, and Brown ahead of Rozier in terms of impact.

[feckless]

I have a different take.  What I heard Rozier say at the end of the season was we would go into games with Brad's game plan but then, game is on, and we would do it Kyrie's way.  What if Rozier, admittedly not the most instinctive point guard, got us to the Eastern finals last year by following what Brad wanted.  And this year Kyrie had a dismal series against the Bucks and was,  in my view unbelievably selfish (a la Ricky Davis), and his selfish individual play rubbed off on the J's.

I always felt that last year Terry played as the back-up starting point over Marcus because he did what the coach asked instead of going heroic all the time, last year Marcus's shot selection was atrocious.   This year he shot better because he took better shots.

Could it be as simple as Kyrie thinks he knows more/better than Brad and does it his way, does not follow the game plan, Marcus tries too hard to be the hero and Terry when given responsibility tries to please Brad, follow the game plan? But often after Kyrie not following the plan the team was not on the same page.

 For those who say he is a terrible defender you cannot deny his reckless pursuit of rebounds and a better than average number of deflections.  Where does he stand statistically on steals?  He has had some important steals.

[mobilija]

I have a different take.  What I heard Rozier say at the end of the season was we would go into games with Brad's game plan but then, game is on, and we would do it Kyrie's way.  What if Rozier, admittedly not the most instinctive point guard, got us to the Eastern finals last year by following what Brad wanted.  And this year Kyrie had a dismal series against the Bucks and was,  in my view unbelievably selfish (a la Ricky Davis), and his selfish individual play rubbed off on the J's.

I always felt that last year Terry played as the back-up starting point over Marcus because he did what the coach asked instead of going heroic all the time, last year Marcus's shot selection was atrocious.   This year he shot better because he took better shots.

Could it be as simple as Kyrie thinks he knows more/better than Brad and does it his way, does not follow the game plan, Marcus tries too hard to be the hero and Terry when given responsibility tries to please Brad, follow the game plan? But often after Kyrie not following the plan the team was not on the same page.

 For those who say he is a terrible defender you cannot deny his reckless pursuit of rebounds and a better than average number of deflections.  Where does he stand statistically on steals?  He has had some important steals.

Good take, TP.

I think that is the biggest worry/question mark on if Kyrie returns... will he listen to and play for Brad? Is that where the chemistry issues stem from, Kyrie vs Brad?

[ChillyWilly]

He had a tough year and he said some stuff he probably should have kept to himself.

All that aside I'm still a fan and I hope he resigns if Kyrie bounces. Everyone allowed to have a rough year, I don't think the Troz3 we saw last season was what he is. Maybe I'm wrong.

[BringToughnessBack]

Choo, Choo...this why Danny did not trade him and why it made so much sense to keep him this year.