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Are we a real contender next year ?
« on: April 11, 2020, 08:39:37 AM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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First I am sorry for my bad english and congratulates people who will have patience to read me. ;)
 
I am so happy with the decisions we did last year. This young core progression is so great to watch, as the emergence of one or maybe even 2 future superstars. Finally Ainge allways had the reputation to press the red button to upgrade quickly the team. But finally this team was built quietly And even if we he had some fail max signing (Irving, maybe Haward), DA finally drafted very well and built patiently with Nets trade what will become an historic Celtics team I am sure

I really believe we are a little move away to become almost faorite for years to come. This moove(s) are realy easy when we see all the way that has been done since Lamarcus draft.
Even with the question of Stevens to coach stars (OK but then the 2 best players will be CDS developped players), with the relative inexperience of our players (OK but mentally strong young, smart, hard workers…). We maybe just need to find what an Igy or Bogut brought to Warriors to cross the last step.

For you the following team with the addition of DRose by exemple and some vet concurrence from the bench wouldn’t be a title favorite ?

I class the players in level of importance / playing time on my fantasy team:


Point Guard

3* Kemba Walker
 Showed good very good ability to lead the team socring and to be the leader when needed, very hot games. Have to hope a moore healthy second year, it limited the second part of his season but he showed maybe ability to let Tatum be the Superstar and him being the second or third player of a contender  A player still in his prime normally during all his contract, a top 8  PG  in the league garanted fo the next 3 years, with titulary all star level in the east ; some ability to break defenses a little ala Isiah when hot. Can improve in decisive moments and a good alternative to Tatum to close the games.

6* Derrick Rose
Trade for Derrick for his experience, his wonderfull skills and the gap he can maake for this team. his health seem more stable, a wonderfull scorer from the bench, who can take a little of Smart in 2d unit creation, make his own plays. give more creation and penetration scoring … A 6 men that could make the gap to be a real contender next year… With the hope he stays healthy a real change for next year and maybe 3 or 4 more years if D Rose find a so merited indian spring ending carreer on a championship winning caliber team

11 Théo Maledon (if available at 17)
A prospect at PG. Much more promising player to me as Ntlikina, even if he isn’t at all the same kind of player. Ntilikina was supposed to be an NBA level athletic guy who could improve with this on scoring, but he doesn’t have nor the shoot, nor the handling/ technic, nor the egotic mentality a player with his skills must have (maybe he can still be a good role player outside of the Knicks). But I saw Frank few times in Strasbourg (SIG) and was very intrigate about his high rank in the draft. 
Maledon is very different. He improoved quickly with gaps, he his a very creative player, shoot can improove but he has good mechanics and may progress a lot in all the aspect of the games. Some make comparaison with TP (we like to compare in France) as he is his baby in ASVEL team. He is at same time very different as Parker and very similar ; not so quick, never the same inside presence as Parker maybe but a future PG with a winning mentality, high IQ in the game and in understanding his potential, hard working, good adapting abilities to NBA. And moore as a good size, not that quick but intense, smart, brillant, who may become at least a very good substitute at least. If Water was a little taller we could pass on him, but we may allready try to anticipate KW decline or transition in  3 years or so with a little bet on him

If Maledon not available continue with … Waters on the 3 spot… He may still become a correct sub. Or Edwards depends on who can be a futur maybe SUB from the bench at 1 or 2 al Eddie house, we can still hope but he has to progress as a PG to creat, find mid range shots and pass better. I still believe him more than Waters who may be way too soft in my opinion for NBA (and maybe a very good european FIBA PG)

Shooting guard

2 Jaylen Brown
 Showed a little less progress than Tatum but still one of the 5-8 best NBA improvement this year. I love his style, his spirit, his two ways excellence ability. We may have our Butler locked for the next 4 years without bipolar kind of mentality even with an exentric one. He has the green lights to become the perfect lieutenant of JT . I have even moore faith he will become a perfect number 2 in a championship winning team than Tatum becoming a first Superstar player

6 bis Smart
Already one of my top 5 favorite celtics (as I follow the team really since 2000’s or so). He will give a part of the image of this legacy we could build in this decenny. Could mark the CN story. A perfect 6th men bis with D Rose with a total different kind of play. The defensive mentality and soul we need to win a title. He progressed on the offensive (handle 3 point) end and could still progress a little with a def breaker from the bench as Rose on his side ; of course he will always be fragile on the shoot and the paint scoring.  He will be on a very correct contract, the best bench defensive player in the league. Give a wonderfull 4 men backcourt with all the ability we can hope, maybe the best 4 in the league (I guess probably). Could play at 3 in small lineups, may try against Rockets or when we need to score and go quick and intense…

13 Turner
Give a shot to Turner… Maybe to be so far in depth won’t give him confidence he needs, but with an injury (Kemba or Rose) he may match again with Stevens and C’s skills and style. A very correct bet for end bench, still not that old. A concurrence and mentor for the youngs as Langford (and concurent)

Shooting forward

4* Hayward
The biggest question for Celtics future -not only for the cap- but he will surely take his option before testing the market next year… A really wonderfull 4th option in the team as he could be a 3d player in a contending team. Overall minded player, collectiv spirit, good scorer, passer who fluidiy this team. Perfect stretch with JT, JB at the wing. Good defensive player ; IF he stays more healthy next year can find a little moore agressivity. Can become a nice story if he stays long during his 30’ to the Cs and finish by beeing a classic C’s story with CBS and a nice guy who fought to come back and build hiss story.
 After a very good year he will probably test FA next year...  We have maybe to try to sign him this yeat, bet a little on him but the value would be perfect. A long term contract like 4 years around 80 M with maybe a deacrising salary like 23 to 17M)

10 Langford
OK it’s small ball lineup but we can still manage other options with Smart at 3 or Tatum or even Turner… But give a shot to Langford, still with a end 2 team sub. It gives him option to progress on the offensive, become a sub who can sometimes score in paint, destabilise defense and continue to improve on his already correct defense. Hope he’ll have health and have a good motor. He may become in 2 or 3 years a very good 6 men offensive guy after  DRose decline or departure.

14* Mo Harckless Vet Trade Exeption
Nothing to say. An experienced end bench player defensive mind moore strong than others at SG who can play at 4 and may be the Ojeleye sub. Thought first to bring Melo but with this role it twill probably turn bad

Power Forward
1* Tatum
What a player he became this year ; his naturall class, technicity, scoring ability, superstar mentality (on the begening) shined this year. His after All star breack performences could make think this year he could have already make the gap to rush our team in playoff as a possible contender. He showed first two years he is a very good playoff player. Such a pleasure to watch his game. And I love his sobre, mature attitude and his hard working mentality. So pure plays, superstar mooves, confidence, 3 points shoot, elegance, pure talent, lenght. He can still progress on passing, creating, sometimes make better choices as he is very well teamed. He can especially attack the field a little more and may become an overall nightmare. Also he is a good team defensive anchor and surely an improving indivudal defensor, able to swich on the rotations adapted on CBS defensive shems. Good rebounder.  Will it be enough to be one of the 3/5 stars of the NBA ?  He has a lot of oponents to be THE SUPERSTAR with Antetokounpo, Davis, Doncic, Williamson, Embid and maybe Young, Mitchell, Siakam, Simmons, Adebayo… But what ill maybe make the difference as a future MVP is the long time depth of our team and that our team will be top 3 regular season probably years to come...

8* G Williams
I hope a long time celtics. High IQ on both end, strength, switchable and perfect fit to CBS style maybe the upide is not that great offensively, maybe not  a huge potential but I think he could developp on a perfect 5th player as a titular who do the dirty and the smart job to link the sauce. Maybe he can replace Theis as the switchable 5* even if it would make a very small ball

15 *Pat Paterson Vet min to fill the roster in injurie case Or draft Isiah Stewart if Maledon is not available at 17*. Maybe redundant with R Williams but an assurance with Timelord health care

17* P Williams with pick 30  two contract as he could be a sleeper on what some are thinking or Pokusevski draft n stash to try to developp into an future Markannen or so

Center

5 Theis
Showed a very good improovement and as a great salary for his very correct production. Very good for our system defensively ; mobil, switchable and not at all the liablity some thoughts on postgame or against powerfull bigs. Rebounding not so good but we can manage it as a team ; can still progress on 3point shoot. We have to think for the year after because he may ask 12-15M a year and we couldn’t afford that I guess…

8 R Williams
Showed a lot of progress that must still be confirmedthis year. But he could be the perfect fit center for our system as he has some Theis defensive qualities with beibg much moore athletic, explosiv. His BBIQ is stil in question but the biggest concern is health… If he can stay healthy we would have at leats a very solid sub at 5 for the next 2 years

12 * Willy Cauley Stein FA to have a 3 big longer and defensive minded. Better 3d option as Poirier. Or in the best case bit i twill be hard with salaries try to catch Plumlee or of course Gasol with Trade Exeption as we did for Kanter; but teams will probably propose much moore to him . Mason would give us a real different ability to put a strong big in the paint. And I don’t speak about Gasol
16 T Fall another 2 way contrac to see if there is a real improve, if he can give 10-15 mn n 2 years or so with a game with so unusual playing abilities, so fun to watch. And a champ's need also a mascot

So my fantasy mooves :
So Trade : Poirier , Ojeleye, Waters or Edwards as they prefer, Green, 26* for D Rose. So Detroit can try to find 1 to 3 futur role players (Waters, 26 like Vernon Carney or so and even Ojeleye)
Draft Maledon or I Stewart at 17* and a stash at 30*
Sign one or two vets to concurrence the young roster (Turner, WCS, Melo ? ...)


For me without big injuries (OK with DRose, Hayward, Kemba, RWill we are injury prone...) we are next year favorite if we make a smart recruting. But it' not that hard choice to take now... Only with Hayward maybe...

A dream would be to end Lebron domination after he hurted us so much last decenni and take 2 wins all time adventage against Lakers... Hope this dream come true !  ;D
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 09:09:48 AM by Rikibellevie »

Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2020, 11:51:48 AM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Kudos for the huge amount of work.

Two thoughts:

1) yes, Boston will be a contender next year;

2) Derrick Rose would not make the decisive difference.

'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2020, 12:07:15 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I absolutely believe so.

Tatum/Jaylen are still under 25, Smart will only get better, (I think his ball handling + passing has come a long way) Theis can become essential to our defense and offense. Walker will actually have a full season to acclimate and become more potent off-ball, and our team last year was the youngest/most experienced team in the playoffs. Both Williams & Langford have shown they have the ability to stay in this league, and showed more promise than I expected from some rookies.

While I like Rose, and WCS, I'm not 100% sold on their durability or fit. I would rather roll the dice on Myles Turner. I think he would be the perfect big that could allow us to improve our defense and spacing. Or maybe go after some shooters, and role players.

I think when you end up in the top 4 in the Eastern Conference, with so many rookies on the roster, there's bound to be some room for improvement. A lot of people criticized Ainge for not going after bench help, and I think that would've been important, but I'm also okay with keeping the team as is, and going after some additional big man/shooters. We're probably one or two piece away from truly contending.

But it all hinges on the Jays taking that superstar leap. And JT/JB has shown they are pretty darn close.

Anyways, TP for your hard work.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 12:25:37 PM by Monkhouse »
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Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2020, 01:23:48 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Glad you said next year and not next season.

Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2020, 01:29:41 PM »

Online Moranis

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Depends on Tatum.  Boston will go as far as Tatum can take the team, though I do think Milwaukee will be a problem in the East no matter how good Tatum is.
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Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2020, 02:47:31 PM »

Online hwangjini_1

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...

11 Théo Maledon (if available at 17)
A prospect at PG. Much more promising player to me as Ntlikina, even if he isn’t at all the same kind of player. Ntilikina was supposed to be an NBA level athletic guy who could improve with this on scoring, but he doesn’t have nor the shoot, nor the handling/ technic, nor the egotic mentality a player with his skills must have (maybe he can still be a good role player outside of the Knicks). But I saw Frank few times in Strasbourg (SIG) and was very intrigate about his high rank in the draft. 
Maledon is very different. He improoved quickly with gaps, he his a very creative player, shoot can improove but he has good mechanics and may progress a lot in all the aspect of the games. Some make comparaison with TP (we like to compare in France) as he is his baby in ASVEL team. He is at same time very different as Parker and very similar ; not so quick, never the same inside presence as Parker maybe but a future PG with a winning mentality, high IQ in the game and in understanding his potential, hard working, good adapting abilities to NBA. And moore as a good size, not that quick but intense, smart, brillant, who may become at least a very good substitute at least. If Water was a little taller we could pass on him, but we may allready try to anticipate KW decline or transition in  3 years or so with a little bet on him
...
thanks for the detailed post and congrats on all the hard work that went into writing it. tp for sure.

next, i just wanted to raise a bit of a discussion on you points above on Maledon. You probably know more than i do about the european players so i want to find out more. the videos on Maledon looked good. he is fast, good ball handler, nice shooter, and still 18 years old.

but as i watched the videos i noticed that he never, ever finished or shot with his left hand. not once that i saw. even when he drove in on the left side, dribbling with his left hand, he switched for the shot.

do you know anything about his shooting this way? this is not a fatal flaw, but it is odd.

next, Moledon looks good, but do you rate him ahead of Aleksej Pokuševski? if so, please tell me more about why.

thanks once more for the post.
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Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2020, 04:02:06 AM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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Quote
but as i watched the videos i noticed that he never, ever finished or shot with his left hand. not once that i saw. even when he drove in on the left side, dribbling with his left hand, he switched for the shot.

On my little observation (watched 2 euroleague matches and one on french league and looked to frecnch scouting report...).
Yes his left hand is one of the reason he felt in the draft. He most of the time (not all the time) attack the right spot in the paint, avoiding using his left hand. I think it is more a bad habit, his confort zone, as he has a very good handling, passing with both hands. He can finish with left but isn't at all in confidence. But such a talented player and hard worker player, can still change his game. He has allready so many intangibles that yes it's a long work to do... But ass he is naturally gifted and has already very good basics...

The two other problems are the lack of explosivity and health care but for this two I realy think it's overevaluated problems. He had shoulder problems this year and sometimes avoided the picks. But he knows he has to reenforcehis body, take a lot strenght and a little athleticism. He has to still work a lot his body but he has already some big basic qualities 192cm 88kilos, +200cm wingspam. His game won't be based on explosivity but on the offensive way he his still correctly quick and has a very good abilty to change speed during dribble, to choose the good spots for shooting... He has to become more athletic to defend quick PG and to finish in the rim. Strenght for not become injury prone (but it is not as if he had a knee recurant problem...)

What is very good on him is that he is allready elite (on FIBA) on some very important points sometimes underevaluate in US I guess. His BBIQ, vision of the game, passing, mechanics (include shoot) and intangibles are already good to very good. Tht's great for an 18 years old player. He has a very good size and wingspam to become a modern combo Guard who has elite old school point guard abilities... And more than anything else he has that combo of winning mentality, talent and hard working. This conscience of what he still has to do and the will to do it.

Still a lot of work to do of course. But at 17* I think he would be the best bet. When I see how high drafted are/will be Lonzo and now Lamelo Ball (totally different player, especially Lamelo OK), I am not sold the potential of Theo is so much under this guys...

Quote
next, Moledon looks good, but do you rate him ahead of Aleksej Pokuševski? if so, please tell me more about why.

For this, my answer is simple... Maledon showed allready his abilities at senior level and his game seemed to step up even in euroleague... Poku is till a junior player who plays just correctly in Olympiakos reserve, as Bender in Haifa in the past who seems to have big basic qualities to play NBA, on what NBA scouts search... But he hasn't still showed if he isn't a too soft player on style, mentality, question about his motor... OK it's harder to impose in Olympiakos than in ASVEL but Maledon overplayed a former french nation team PG A Diot (in the decline), and in the second part of the season, when he was back 100%, seemed to be still in a quick progression way. To resume Poku may be an overevaluate NBA scout player and Theo an underevaluate given to their standards...

This is my guess, some NBA scouts think he may be already near his top because he isn't a big athlete; but for me he has the talent and the hard working to pass a lot of gap. And become a bigger, better shooter and rebounder, a little slower Ricky Rubio saying...




« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 05:13:21 AM by Rikibellevie »

Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2020, 06:52:41 AM »

Offline Somebody

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We should be a contender if we manage to retain Hayward. The X-factor will be the development of Tatum and Brown: can Tatum crack the top 15 and can Brown break into the 25 or so? Them making that sort of leap should put us near the very top of the league if Kemba maintains his top 20-25 status and Hayward/Smart continue to inch closer to the top 30.
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Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2020, 07:04:27 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Kemba needs to get and stay healthy .

Overall health issues have defeated the team not so much the competition.


Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2020, 11:09:52 AM »

Online hwangjini_1

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Quote
but as i watched the videos i noticed that he never, ever finished or shot with his left hand. not once that i saw. even when he drove in on the left side, dribbling with his left hand, he switched for the shot.

On my little observation (watched 2 euroleague matches and one on french league and looked to frecnch scouting report...).
Yes his left hand is one of the reason he felt in the draft. He most of the time (not all the time) attack the right spot in the paint, avoiding using his left hand. I think it is more a bad habit, his confort zone, as he has a very good handling, passing with both hands. He can finish with left but isn't at all in confidence. But such a talented player and hard worker player, can still change his game. He has allready so many intangibles that yes it's a long work to do... But ass he is naturally gifted and has already very good basics...

The two other problems are the lack of explosivity and health care but for this two I realy think it's overevaluated problems. He had shoulder problems this year and sometimes avoided the picks. But he knows he has to reenforcehis body, take a lot strenght and a little athleticism. He has to still work a lot his body but he has already some big basic qualities 192cm 88kilos, +200cm wingspam. His game won't be based on explosivity but on the offensive way he his still correctly quick and has a very good abilty to change speed during dribble, to choose the good spots for shooting... He has to become more athletic to defend quick PG and to finish in the rim. Strenght for not become injury prone (but it is not as if he had a knee recurant problem...)

What is very good on him is that he is allready elite (on FIBA) on some very important points sometimes underevaluate in US I guess. His BBIQ, vision of the game, passing, mechanics (include shoot) and intangibles are already good to very good. Tht's great for an 18 years old player. He has a very good size and wingspam to become a modern combo Guard who has elite old school point guard abilities... And more than anything else he has that combo of winning mentality, talent and hard working. This conscience of what he still has to do and the will to do it.

Still a lot of work to do of course. But at 17* I think he would be the best bet. When I see how high drafted are/will be Lonzo and now Lamelo Ball (totally different player, especially Lamelo OK), I am not sold the potential of Theo is so much under this guys...

Quote
next, Moledon looks good, but do you rate him ahead of Aleksej Pokuševski? if so, please tell me more about why.

For this, my answer is simple... Maledon showed allready his abilities at senior level and his game seemed to step up even in euroleague... Poku is till a junior player who plays just correctly in Olympiakos reserve, as Bender in Haifa in the past who seems to have big basic qualities to play NBA, on what NBA scouts search... But he hasn't still showed if he isn't a too soft player on style, mentality, question about his motor... OK it's harder to impose in Olympiakos than in ASVEL but Maledon overplayed a former french nation team PG A Diot (in the decline), and in the second part of the season, when he was back 100%, seemed to be still in a quick progression way. To resume Poku may be an overevaluate NBA scout player and Theo an underevaluate given to their standards...

This is my guess, some NBA scouts think he may be already near his top because he isn't a big athlete; but for me he has the talent and the hard working to pass a lot of gap. And become a bigger, better shooter and rebounder, a little slower Ricky Rubio saying...
many thanks for addressing my questions with full, informative, and great insights and information.

a tp once again for you.
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Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2020, 11:47:45 AM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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Merci beaucoup à vous ;)

Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2020, 12:49:43 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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They'll be a dark-horse contender for sure. But IMO a real contender is a top 4 team chasing a ring. They may fall a bit short on that one.

There is a chemistry missing on this Celtic team. They score the ball in mostly one single way. If this team isn't hitting the 3 ball, they have difficulty finding ways to score. Clever playmaking and finding the open man for the simple open opportunity disappears much too often. Certain players need to stop being single minded too. I'm hoping that maturity will help in this area. They need to retain Gordon Hayward for sure, they need a teacher on the floor with this team. 

The bench is well below average, horrible actually. They need a front-line center with decent size that can anchor the defense and be of some value on offense, allowing Theis to play on a hopefully much improved second unit.

And lastly...team health. The Celtics had a too many key injuries that exposed that young, impotent bench. 

Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2020, 02:52:40 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I think Utah Gordon is returning with his mojo .   

Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2020, 08:14:03 PM »

Offline ozgod

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We should be a contender if we manage to retain Hayward. The X-factor will be the development of Tatum and Brown: can Tatum crack the top 15 and can Brown break into the 25 or so? Them making that sort of leap should put us near the very top of the league if Kemba maintains his top 20-25 status and Hayward/Smart continue to inch closer to the top 30.

Agree. Hayward is the one that links them all together and allows the other three to be the best versions of themselves.
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Re: Are we a real contender next year ?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2020, 10:06:58 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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The first thing to monitor is if we keep Hayward. If so, we are absolutely a contender. But without Hayward and no significant additions, I think even with Brown + Tatum continuing to improve we aren't a serious contender. Of course, health is also going to be key.
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