Grant Williams(merged threads)

[Sophomore]

It's not good, it has improved some but still shooting poorly for the year.  Bright kid, lacks athletic ability and length but man is he smart and strong.  I am not as optimistic as some on him because of these faults but I am rooting for him.

The Draymond Green comparisons are absurd.  Green is a better athlete and has way more length.

Yeah, the Draymond comparisons are way off. What you think of his shooting probably depends on whether you believe his verrrrrry slow start can be written off to rookie nerves. In his last ten games or so he's actually good, but obviously a tiny sample size. Time will tell.

[CptZoogs]

It's not good, it has improved some but still shooting poorly for the year.  Bright kid, lacks athletic ability and length but man is he smart and strong.  I am not as optimistic as some on him because of these faults but I am rooting for him.

The Draymond Green comparisons are absurd.  Green is a better athlete and has way more length.

Yeah, the Draymond comparisons are way off. What you think of his shooting probably depends on whether you believe his verrrrrry slow start can be written off to rookie nerves. In his last ten games or so he's actually good, but obviously a tiny sample size. Time will tell.

Watching his free throws leads me to believe he will continue to improve.  Nothing about his shot appears broken.  I think there were some rookie nerves and he was asked to shoot shots he was not asked to shoot in college.  There is bound to be a learning curve.

[nickagneta]

In the 16 games he has played since hitting that 1st three pointer his FG% is 53.7%(29-54) and his 3PT% is 39.1%(9-23) and Grant has a TS% at 62%.

Is it a hot streak or a correction after getting over rookie jitters? Judging by his mature play and a really nice looking shooting form I think he was simply getting over his initial nervousness.

[Fafnir]

It's not good, it has improved some but still shooting poorly for the year.  Bright kid, lacks athletic ability and length but man is he smart and strong.  I am not as optimistic as some on him because of these faults but I am rooting for him.

The Draymond Green comparisons are absurd.  Green is a better athlete and has way more length.

Yeah, the Draymond comparisons are way off. What you think of his shooting probably depends on whether you believe his verrrrrry slow start can be written off to rookie nerves. In his last ten games or so he's actually good, but obviously a tiny sample size. Time will tell.

I think Draymond is a pretty apt comparison because of how the C's are using him.
 
IE Undersized big man who plays up in position well defensively and can guard on the perimeter. He's also shown signs he can be used in a similar manner to Draymond offensively with his recent short roll passing.

[Fafnir]

Is it a hot streak or a correction after getting over rookie jitters? Judging by his mature play and a really nice looking shooting form I think he was simply getting over his initial nervousness.

He was a good shooter in college, just not a 3 point shooter.

So the type of shots he's taken changed, he's facing better competition, and he's doing it in very short minutes and even shorter touches. Definitely makes sense that it took time for him to find a groove. He's still way more comfortable using his but and shoulders to make space for strange looking layups than shooting 3s.

Very excited he's working out as a rotation player for a late round pick. What's crazy is that he's playing the worst out of the three guys the C's were connected to in that area of the draft. (Thybulle/Clark)

[nickagneta]

Is it a hot streak or a correction after getting over rookie jitters? Judging by his mature play and a really nice looking shooting form I think he was simply getting over his initial nervousness.

He was a good shooter in college, just not a 3 point shooter.

So the type of shots he's taken changed, he's facing better competition, and he's doing it in very short minutes and even shorter touches. Definitely makes sense that it took time for him to find a groove. He's still way more comfortable using his but and shoulders to make space for strange looking layups than shooting 3s.

Very excited he's working out as a rotation player for a late round pick. What's crazy is that he's playing the worst out of the three guys the C's were connected to in that area of the draft. (Thybulle/Clark)

He has a good looking flip jump hook shot that appears very effective down low. I like it.

[Somebody]

Uh, Durant wasn't a passer at Tatum's age either. The difference between those two players isn't their passing. How many more assists do you think Durant was averaging in his third year?

The difference is Durant was getting to the line 6 more times and also just a superior shooter.

I mean how many third year players were averaging 29.55 points per 75 possession at +6.4% TS and -1.6 TOV%? Durant is an exception for a prospect with MVP potential lol, most young players with MVP potential are good at scoring and passing but Durant happened to be transcendent at scoring and average to below average at passing, Tatum's nowhere near that package.

Right which is why your statement that "he's no Durant" more of a Pierce/George while complaining about his passing was really strange. FWIW he's not far off where George/Pierce were in their third years. Not much daylight between him and Pierce and George is just a tick above them both.

http://bkref.com/tiny/JoLEO

I just disagree with you about his passing, he's not been a ball stopper this year at all. He hasn't taken the leap to being a play maker, but he's made real progress with his passing.

And I simply disagree with your take that he's close to George/Pierce when it comes to passing, assists aren't the only measure of passing ability (ntm that he's 1.425 assists behind George per 75 possessions, but hey he's only a tick behind, a near 50% gap isn't that much!). Now you could argue that both of them carried a larger playmaking role than Tatum to inflate their assist totals (Pierce's assists per 75 is more impressive than Tatum's due to the deadball era not being as assist friendly compared to the pace and space game of today), but imo Tatum can't complete some of the passes they made even if he was thrust into an on ball role, Pierce and George simply made more advanced reads and didn't miss easy passing looks at such a worrying rate in their third years.

Btw I didn't accuse him of being a ball stopper, I said that he has this tendency to pound the ball and lock into a scoring mode when he has to break his man down 1 on 1 (he generally doesn't hold onto the ball for too long), which when combined with his subpar court vision/lack of advanced passing makes him quite a bit behind 3rd year Pierce and George as a passer even though he has time on his side.

Completely random aside, but why do you use per-75 possessions over per-100? Is it to keep the raw numbers less gaudy and more in line with realism?

Iirc it's more in line with the average amount of offensive possessions for an average team, so yeah you're not far off.

[Fierce1]

I think Grant Williams will be playing in the NBA for a very long time.

But I don't think using GWill as a Center is a good idea.

Celts will not win a lot of playoff games if majority of his minutes are at Center.

[Celtics4ever]

Slow start or not the shooting percentage is still affected by the slow start.

I think Grant Williams will be playing in the NBA for a very long time.

But I don't think using GWill as a Center is a good idea.

Agree, it is laughable that we play him at Five.

He has a good looking flip jump hook shot that appears very effective down low. I like it.

If you can't elevate this is a must for your game as your using your shoulders and body width to protect the ball.

I think Draymond is a pretty apt comparison because of how the C's are using him.
 

                          height      height/shoes   Weight    Wingspan     Standing Reach     Vertical     Max Vertical
Draymond Green     6'5.75"    6'7.5"          235.6          7'1.25"          8'10                      28"            33"         
Grant Williams         6'5.75″    6'7.5"          240.6          6"9.75"         8' 8.5″                   26"          31.5"

Four inches more of leaping and reach can be a lot in basketball in terms of capability.   How many guys have we wished were a few inches taller and they would be perfect at some position?    Roughly 1-2" wingspan and reach a few of more  vertical leap.

I think Grant is smart and will figure things out.   But I recall when Ainge drafted  Guerschon Yabusele and folks compared him to Draymond Green and the comparisons were downright way off then too.

[gouki88]

Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

[LilRip]

If we lose Kanter in the offseason, I wouldn’t mind playing Grant Williams more off the bench. His shooting isn’t broken and he doesn’t take stupid shots. He pretty much does everything decently too with high energy.

[Hoopvortex]

Uh, Durant wasn't a passer at Tatum's age either. The difference between those two players isn't their passing. How many more assists do you think Durant was averaging in his third year?

The difference is Durant was getting to the line 6 more times and also just a superior shooter.

I mean how many third year players were averaging 29.55 points per 75 possession at +6.4% TS and -1.6 TOV%? Durant is an exception for a prospect with MVP potential lol, most young players with MVP potential are good at scoring and passing but Durant happened to be transcendent at scoring and average to below average at passing, Tatum's nowhere near that package.

Right which is why your statement that "he's no Durant" more of a Pierce/George while complaining about his passing was really strange. FWIW he's not far off where George/Pierce were in their third years. Not much daylight between him and Pierce and George is just a tick above them both.

http://bkref.com/tiny/JoLEO

I just disagree with you about his passing, he's not been a ball stopper this year at all. He hasn't taken the leap to being a play maker, but he's made real progress with his passing.

And I simply disagree with your take that he's close to George/Pierce when it comes to passing, assists aren't the only measure of passing ability (ntm that he's 1.425 assists behind George per 75 possessions, but hey he's only a tick behind, a near 50% gap isn't that much!). Now you could argue that both of them carried a larger playmaking role than Tatum to inflate their assist totals (Pierce's assists per 75 is more impressive than Tatum's due to the deadball era not being as assist friendly compared to the pace and space game of today), but imo Tatum can't complete some of the passes they made even if he was thrust into an on ball role, Pierce and George simply made more advanced reads and didn't miss easy passing looks at such a worrying rate in their third years.

Btw I didn't accuse him of being a ball stopper, I said that he has this tendency to pound the ball and lock into a scoring mode when he has to break his man down 1 on 1 (he generally doesn't hold onto the ball for too long), which when combined with his subpar court vision/lack of advanced passing makes him quite a bit behind 3rd year Pierce and George as a passer even though he has time on his side.

Completely random aside, but why do you use per-75 possessions over per-100? Is it to keep the raw numbers less gaudy and more in line with realism?

Iirc it's more in line with the average amount of offensive possessions for an average team, so yeah you're not far off.

Currently NBA teams are averaging between 98.9 (Charlotte) and 106.8 (Milwaukee) possessions per game.

Boston is 21st in the league, at 101.9 per game.

You might recall the old NBA proverb: ‘A possession is a point’.

[Hoopvortex]

Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.

[gouki88]

Since hitting his first three (after missing 25 in a row!) Grant has been lighting it up from three. Shooting 44% from deep on 1.5 attempts per game in 15MPG. He's also shooting a dead even 50% from the field. His free throw shooting has been off, but that was really two games (where he shot 0-2 then 2-5 from the line) that did the damage to his FT%. As he was such an elite free throw shooter in college I fully expect a bounce back to 75-80%.

Overall, he looks like quite the good pickup. Sets a mean screen, solid rebounder, good passer, good low-post scorer, can make plays on defence and can hit shots. Look forward to what he can do with us. And despite having such a long college career he only turned 21 on November 30th!

I share your optimism about him, and almost your entire scouting report.

But.

Grant has not been a solid rebounder. The recent uptick in offensive boards is certainly welcome, but production on the defensive board, which this team so badly needs, has stayed stubbornly low.  He’s currently at a paltry 11.4%, just behind Tremont Waters.

Dang, I didn’t realise how poor his defensive rebounding had been. I expect it to improve, but you’re totally right. His per 36 rebounding since he hit his last 3 is quite weak.

I have faith!

[Boris Badenov]

Uh, Durant wasn't a passer at Tatum's age either. The difference between those two players isn't their passing. How many more assists do you think Durant was averaging in his third year?

The difference is Durant was getting to the line 6 more times and also just a superior shooter.

I mean how many third year players were averaging 29.55 points per 75 possession at +6.4% TS and -1.6 TOV%? Durant is an exception for a prospect with MVP potential lol, most young players with MVP potential are good at scoring and passing but Durant happened to be transcendent at scoring and average to below average at passing, Tatum's nowhere near that package.

Right which is why your statement that "he's no Durant" more of a Pierce/George while complaining about his passing was really strange. FWIW he's not far off where George/Pierce were in their third years. Not much daylight between him and Pierce and George is just a tick above them both.

http://bkref.com/tiny/JoLEO

I just disagree with you about his passing, he's not been a ball stopper this year at all. He hasn't taken the leap to being a play maker, but he's made real progress with his passing.

And I simply disagree with your take that he's close to George/Pierce when it comes to passing, assists aren't the only measure of passing ability (ntm that he's 1.425 assists behind George per 75 possessions, but hey he's only a tick behind, a near 50% gap isn't that much!). Now you could argue that both of them carried a larger playmaking role than Tatum to inflate their assist totals (Pierce's assists per 75 is more impressive than Tatum's due to the deadball era not being as assist friendly compared to the pace and space game of today), but imo Tatum can't complete some of the passes they made even if he was thrust into an on ball role, Pierce and George simply made more advanced reads and didn't miss easy passing looks at such a worrying rate in their third years.

Btw I didn't accuse him of being a ball stopper, I said that he has this tendency to pound the ball and lock into a scoring mode when he has to break his man down 1 on 1 (he generally doesn't hold onto the ball for too long), which when combined with his subpar court vision/lack of advanced passing makes him quite a bit behind 3rd year Pierce and George as a passer even though he has time on his side.

Completely random aside, but why do you use per-75 possessions over per-100? Is it to keep the raw numbers less gaudy and more in line with realism?

Iirc it's more in line with the average amount of offensive possessions for an average team, so yeah you're not far off.

Currently NBA teams are averaging between 98.9 (Charlotte) and 106.8 (Milwaukee) possessions per game.

Boston is 21st in the league, at 101.9 per game.

You might recall the old NBA proverb: ‘A possession is a point’.

It’s supposed to be more in line with the number of possessions a player would play - not a team.

It’s the analogue of per-36 for production - fewer than the 48 minutes in a game but in line with what a player might average. Per-36 is falling out of vogue because (a) no one plays 36 mpg any more, and (b) per-possession better adjusts for pace.