Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston

[mmmmm]

It looks like the Davis and Butler comparisons have been beat to death.  Each side is going to see what they want to in the numbers.

The real question is that is Butter just a lesser cut of Toine?  I'm pretty sure he had better offensive numbers and rebounds than Butler.  I wouldn't give much for him as I'm not sure that's what the Celtics need right now. 

No. Where are people getting these comparisons?

Butler is nothing like Ricky Davis.

Butler is nothing like 'Toine.  Completely different players.

I'm not even going to trash 'Toine by posting a detailed comparison.  They just aren't anything alike other than being basketball players.

There is plenty of information and game video on Butler too watch if you really and truly have no idea what kind of player he is.

If you really and truly need to compare him to Celtic players, the closest I would say is that he has a lot of the same toughness, energy and defensive qualities as fellow Marquette alum Jae Crowder (his best buddy, btw) and a lot of the same ball-handling and point-creation abilities as Evan Turner, but with a better outside shot and FAR FAR FAR better scoring efficiency.  He can play the 2 or the 3 and defend 1-4.  He's got great length and is very strong.

Nobody wants to overpay for anything, but in the NBA it is far, far better to have a dollar than 6 quarters.  Or even 8 quarters.

And when considering 'cost' one of the big factors is opportunity cost due to the way the NBA cap rules work.   Even though we have a fair amount of potential cap space, it is still limited.  And it is sometimes better to acquire talent via trades since you can often maneuver your way to go way over the cap and thus secure more talent than if you try to buy your way with just free cap space.

If Butler is truly available and a deal makes sense, Danny will make it.  If not, he won't.

[bdm860]

It looks like the Davis and Butler comparisons have been beat to death.  Each side is going to see what they want to in the numbers.

The real question is that is Butter just a lesser cut of Toine?  I'm pretty sure he had better offensive numbers and rebounds than Butler.  I wouldn't give much for him as I'm not sure that's what the Celtics need right now. 

No. Where are people getting these comparisons?

Butler is nothing like Ricky Davis.

Butler is nothing like 'Toine.  Completely different players.

I'm not even going to trash 'Toine by posting a detailed comparison.  They just aren't anything alike other than being basketball players.

There is plenty of information and game video on Butler too watch if you really and truly have no idea what kind of player he is.

If you really and truly need to compare him to Celtic players, the closest I would say is that he has a lot of the same toughness, energy and defensive qualities as fellow Marquette alum Jae Crowder (his best buddy, btw) and a lot of the same ball-handling and point-creation abilities as Evan Turner, but with a better outside shot and FAR FAR FAR better scoring efficiency.  He can play the 2 or the 3 and defend 1-4.  He's got great length and is very strong.

Nobody wants to overpay for anything, but in the NBA it is far, far better to have a dollar than 6 quarters.  Or even 8 quarters.

And when considering 'cost' one of the big factors is opportunity cost due to the way the NBA cap rules work.   Even though we have a fair amount of potential cap space, it is still limited.  And it is sometimes better to acquire talent via trades since you can often maneuver your way to go way over the cap and thus secure more talent than if you try to buy your way with just free cap space.

If Butler is truly available and a deal makes sense, Danny will make it.  If not, he won't.

I personally think the best comparisons are prime Andre Iguodala (with a little better offense) and Ron Artest (with a little less defense, but also less of a knucklehead).

They both fit in the random stats LarBrd qualifier of around 20/5/5 in their best seasons with with low 30%+ 3p% on teams who won less than 42 games, and all have career averages of 13.5ppg.  When I hide the names I can barely tell the difference!






Using stats found here and here.


Not that I'd want to sell the farm to get any of those players, but I think they'd all be nice additions to the Celtics.

[Csfan1984]

@ Future Celtic Owner, I'd much rather go for Cousins as well.
And make all the moves possible right now to entice KD. Trade AB and JJ for Ibaka.Trade Nets 2016, Nets 2018, 16 pick, Grizz 1st, Rozier, KO, and AJ, for Cousins. Sign DeRozan. Draft=23 Stone/Zizic/Zubac, 31 Hammons/BJohnson, 35 Onuaku/Newman, 45 Finn-Smith, 51 Yogi, 58 Warney. Most those guys are Seniors except at 23 and 35 where you go for potential development guy. And if KD likes all that then it is a possible team of

Starters IT, DeRozan, KD, Ibaka, Cousins
Bench Yogi, Smart, Crowder, Mickey, Hammons
Reserves Newman, Young, Finn-Smith, Warney, Zizic

Could be a crazy off season.

[Kane3387]

lol. Ricky Davis? Seriously. Davis, sort of like rondo the last few years, and his statistics must be taken with a grain of salt. He notoriously went stat hunting and as a result his stats will always look better than they truly were.

Anyone who has been watching hoops for a moment probably remembers the infamous play where Davis shot the ball intentionally on his own basket in an attempt to purposely miss so he could get his tenth rebound and a triple double.

Jimmy Butler is not that kind of player. His stats typically come within the flow of an offense. True he is prioritized more now days in Chicago but I never see him go hunting for stats.

[Kane3387]

Jimmy Butler for a 42 win Bulls team:  20.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.6 steals, 45%/31%/83%
Ricky Davis for a 33 win Celtic team:  19.7 points, 5.3 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 46%/32%/79%

Neither made the playoffs.   Butler had former MVP Derrick Rose, 6x All-star Pau Gasol, last year's ROY runnerup Nikola Mirotic and a solid bench of players like Taj Gibson. 

I wouldn't mind bringing in Butler, but I'm not overpaying for premium-brand Ricky Davis.

Jimmy Butler for a 50-win Bulls team: 20.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.8 steals, 46.2%/37.8%/83.4%

Ricky Davis Career stats:  13.5 points, 3.3 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 1 steal 45%/36%/78% in 29.8mpg

Jimmy Butler Career stats:  13.6 points, 2.6 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 45%/33%/81% in 31.2mpg

Dude cmon now. You know you're just using career stats to have a (lame) reason to not want butler. You know jimmy didn't get a ton of time in his earlier years, and was only getting PT for his defense, right?

Yeah, I also know I've seen articles from Bulls fans who said his defense cratered once he was given a larger offensive role. 

Honestly, I haven't watched enough of Butler to really have a major opinion one way or the other.  Did you guys watch a ton of Bulls games this year?  I just know what I've read about him.  I'm fine with bringing him in, but I wouldn't overpay for him. 

As a 23 year old Ricky Davis put up Butler-esque stats of 20.6 points, 5.5 assists, 4.9 rebounds and 1.6 steals... It was his 5th season.  He was an effective player for a number of years.

This was Butler's 5th season.  The 26 year old has game.  Davis was a bit of a headcase (though I've heard Butler has a little of that in him as well) and Butler is widely believed to be a better defensive player (though playing for a team with an elite defensive identity impacted that a bit).   I'm not saying Davis was better than Butler.  I'm just saying that we've seen guys put up big stats for losers in the past.   I wouldn't mind trading for Butler if the price is right.  I wouldn't hold my breathe on him being the franchise player the team needs.

Your problem is instead of reading articles written about Butler from credible news sources or watching Bulls games, you are getting your information from uninformed and biased Bulls fans on blog sites. That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog. If people did that and took BBallTim seriously they would believe that Rondo was better than Jordan. If those people listened to triboy they would think Jordan Mickey was better than Bill Russell. If they listened to our group of young posters that love tanking they would have been convinced Ainge was an incompetent boob for not going all Hinkie. If they listened to some others they would be convinced Isaish Thomas isn't an All-Star caliber talent and should be coming off the bench. If they listened to you they would have been convinced that the Nets pick wouldn't have stood a chance at landing in the top ten of the lottery.

Time to start getting your information from better sources LB. Jimmy Butler is ten times the player Ricky Davis ever was.

Skip Bayless of Celtics Blog just got GOT

[mmmmm]

It looks like the Davis and Butler comparisons have been beat to death.  Each side is going to see what they want to in the numbers.

The real question is that is Butter just a lesser cut of Toine?  I'm pretty sure he had better offensive numbers and rebounds than Butler.  I wouldn't give much for him as I'm not sure that's what the Celtics need right now. 

No. Where are people getting these comparisons?

Butler is nothing like Ricky Davis.

Butler is nothing like 'Toine.  Completely different players.

I'm not even going to trash 'Toine by posting a detailed comparison.  They just aren't anything alike other than being basketball players.

There is plenty of information and game video on Butler too watch if you really and truly have no idea what kind of player he is.

If you really and truly need to compare him to Celtic players, the closest I would say is that he has a lot of the same toughness, energy and defensive qualities as fellow Marquette alum Jae Crowder (his best buddy, btw) and a lot of the same ball-handling and point-creation abilities as Evan Turner, but with a better outside shot and FAR FAR FAR better scoring efficiency.  He can play the 2 or the 3 and defend 1-4.  He's got great length and is very strong.

Nobody wants to overpay for anything, but in the NBA it is far, far better to have a dollar than 6 quarters.  Or even 8 quarters.

And when considering 'cost' one of the big factors is opportunity cost due to the way the NBA cap rules work.   Even though we have a fair amount of potential cap space, it is still limited.  And it is sometimes better to acquire talent via trades since you can often maneuver your way to go way over the cap and thus secure more talent than if you try to buy your way with just free cap space.

If Butler is truly available and a deal makes sense, Danny will make it.  If not, he won't.

I personally think the best comparisons are prime Andre Iguodala (with a little better offense) and Ron Artest (with a little less defense, but also less of a knucklehead).

They both fit in the random stats LarBrd qualifier of around 20/5/5 in their best seasons with with low 30%+ 3p% on teams who won less than 42 games, and all have career averages of 13.5ppg.  When I hide the names I can barely tell the difference!






Using stats found here and here.


Not that I'd want to sell the farm to get any of those players, but I think they'd all be nice additions to the Celtics.

Okay, I agree that Iggy and Artest are atleast statistically somewhere in the right ball-park, at least with their best years.

They are both 'more similar' than the prior offered comps, but Butler is statistically 'better' overall by a significant margin, so far in his career.  His rates of win-production and his scoring efficiency are notably better than what Iggy or Artest posted.  Arrest, in particular, really hasn't been nearly as good except for a very, very short snip of his career, and he was never near the same level of point creator.

Iggy is probably the closest comp so far offered:  A plus player on both ends of the court who plays superior defense, scores and creates for others.   His numbers weren't as good as Butler's have been, but are in the right ball park.   Iggy is a player who got 12-15M during a span when the cap was much lower (and is still getting over 12M).

Butler is locked up for 16.4 - 18.7M through 2018-19 (he has a player option for 19.8M in 2019-20).

Whether it would make sense for Danny to trade for him depends, as I said, on the details.

[celticsclay]

Jimmy Butler for a 42 win Bulls team:  20.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.6 steals, 45%/31%/83%
Ricky Davis for a 33 win Celtic team:  19.7 points, 5.3 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 46%/32%/79%

Neither made the playoffs.   Butler had former MVP Derrick Rose, 6x All-star Pau Gasol, last year's ROY runnerup Nikola Mirotic and a solid bench of players like Taj Gibson. 

I wouldn't mind bringing in Butler, but I'm not overpaying for premium-brand Ricky Davis.

Jimmy Butler for a 50-win Bulls team: 20.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.8 steals, 46.2%/37.8%/83.4%

Ricky Davis Career stats:  13.5 points, 3.3 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 1 steal 45%/36%/78% in 29.8mpg

Jimmy Butler Career stats:  13.6 points, 2.6 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 45%/33%/81% in 31.2mpg

Dude cmon now. You know you're just using career stats to have a (lame) reason to not want butler. You know jimmy didn't get a ton of time in his earlier years, and was only getting PT for his defense, right?

Yeah, I also know I've seen articles from Bulls fans who said his defense cratered once he was given a larger offensive role. 

Honestly, I haven't watched enough of Butler to really have a major opinion one way or the other.  Did you guys watch a ton of Bulls games this year?  I just know what I've read about him.  I'm fine with bringing him in, but I wouldn't overpay for him. 

As a 23 year old Ricky Davis put up Butler-esque stats of 20.6 points, 5.5 assists, 4.9 rebounds and 1.6 steals... It was his 5th season.  He was an effective player for a number of years.

This was Butler's 5th season.  The 26 year old has game.  Davis was a bit of a headcase (though I've heard Butler has a little of that in him as well) and Butler is widely believed to be a better defensive player (though playing for a team with an elite defensive identity impacted that a bit).   I'm not saying Davis was better than Butler.  I'm just saying that we've seen guys put up big stats for losers in the past.   I wouldn't mind trading for Butler if the price is right.  I wouldn't hold my breathe on him being the franchise player the team needs.

Your problem is instead of reading articles written about Butler from credible news sources or watching Bulls games, you are getting your information from uninformed and biased Bulls fans on blog sites. That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog. If people did that and took BBallTim seriously they would believe that Rondo was better than Jordan. If those people listened to triboy they would think Jordan Mickey was better than Bill Russell. If they listened to our group of young posters that love tanking they would have been convinced Ainge was an incompetent boob for not going all Hinkie. If they listened to some others they would be convinced Isaish Thomas isn't an All-Star caliber talent and should be coming off the bench. If they listened to you they would have been convinced that the Nets pick wouldn't have stood a chance at landing in the top ten of the lottery.

Time to start getting your information from better sources LB. Jimmy Butler is ten times the player Ricky Davis ever was.

Skip Bayless of Celtics Blog just got GOT

[LarBrd33]

Jimmy Butler for a 42 win Bulls team:  20.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.6 steals, 45%/31%/83%
Ricky Davis for a 33 win Celtic team:  19.7 points, 5.3 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 46%/32%/79%

Neither made the playoffs.   Butler had former MVP Derrick Rose, 6x All-star Pau Gasol, last year's ROY runnerup Nikola Mirotic and a solid bench of players like Taj Gibson. 

I wouldn't mind bringing in Butler, but I'm not overpaying for premium-brand Ricky Davis.

Jimmy Butler for a 50-win Bulls team: 20.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.8 steals, 46.2%/37.8%/83.4%

Ricky Davis Career stats:  13.5 points, 3.3 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 1 steal 45%/36%/78% in 29.8mpg

Jimmy Butler Career stats:  13.6 points, 2.6 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 45%/33%/81% in 31.2mpg

Dude cmon now. You know you're just using career stats to have a (lame) reason to not want butler. You know jimmy didn't get a ton of time in his earlier years, and was only getting PT for his defense, right?

Yeah, I also know I've seen articles from Bulls fans who said his defense cratered once he was given a larger offensive role. 

Honestly, I haven't watched enough of Butler to really have a major opinion one way or the other.  Did you guys watch a ton of Bulls games this year?  I just know what I've read about him.  I'm fine with bringing him in, but I wouldn't overpay for him. 

As a 23 year old Ricky Davis put up Butler-esque stats of 20.6 points, 5.5 assists, 4.9 rebounds and 1.6 steals... It was his 5th season.  He was an effective player for a number of years.

This was Butler's 5th season.  The 26 year old has game.  Davis was a bit of a headcase (though I've heard Butler has a little of that in him as well) and Butler is widely believed to be a better defensive player (though playing for a team with an elite defensive identity impacted that a bit).   I'm not saying Davis was better than Butler.  I'm just saying that we've seen guys put up big stats for losers in the past.   I wouldn't mind trading for Butler if the price is right.  I wouldn't hold my breathe on him being the franchise player the team needs.

Your problem is instead of reading articles written about Butler from credible news sources or watching Bulls games, you are getting your information from uninformed and biased Bulls fans on blog sites. That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog. If people did that and took BBallTim seriously they would believe that Rondo was better than Jordan. If those people listened to triboy they would think Jordan Mickey was better than Bill Russell. If they listened to our group of young posters that love tanking they would have been convinced Ainge was an incompetent boob for not going all Hinkie. If they listened to some others they would be convinced Isaish Thomas isn't an All-Star caliber talent and should be coming off the bench. If they listened to you they would have been convinced that the Nets pick wouldn't have stood a chance at landing in the top ten of the lottery.

Time to start getting your information from better sources LB. Jimmy Butler is ten times the player Ricky Davis ever was.

Skip Bayless of Celtics Blog just got GOT

Lol.  Ridiculous.  His greatest claim in this bombshell of a post was that I get my info on jimmy butler from bulls fans.  Uh... 

First of all, I admitted what most people here are too stubborn to admit - I don't watch a ton of bulls games.  Neither do most of the Celtic fans here.   I said that I have to form my opinion mostly on information available about butler ... Same with pretty much everyone here since I doubt a lot of people on this forum watched him daily.   I did mention that there was a group of bulls fans who pointed out that butler's defensive efficiency had dropped significantly when his offensive role grew. 

So based on that, y'all think I got burned ? 

The most relevant thing nickagneta said in his post was, " That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog"

He also went on to bash one of my grandest "rivals" from this forum. 

So essentially, y'all are having histrionics about a guy who legitimizes my entire character premise.  All nickagneta is saying here is that the opinions of the majority of Celtic fans (such as you guys) are worthless. 

Pick your mic back up.

[walker834]

It's all a bunch of rumors.  Butler could end up in OKC for all we know right now.  He'll probably remain a Bull. I am not a huge fan of getting Butler either.  I am not a big fan of building this team out of stars around the league in general.  Certain guys yes.  Nothing against Butler overly.  He's good.

[Csfan1984]

Jimmy Butler for a 42 win Bulls team:  20.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.6 steals, 45%/31%/83%
Ricky Davis for a 33 win Celtic team:  19.7 points, 5.3 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 46%/32%/79%

Neither made the playoffs.   Butler had former MVP Derrick Rose, 6x All-star Pau Gasol, last year's ROY runnerup Nikola Mirotic and a solid bench of players like Taj Gibson. 

I wouldn't mind bringing in Butler, but I'm not overpaying for premium-brand Ricky Davis.

Jimmy Butler for a 50-win Bulls team: 20.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.8 steals, 46.2%/37.8%/83.4%

Ricky Davis Career stats:  13.5 points, 3.3 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 1 steal 45%/36%/78% in 29.8mpg

Jimmy Butler Career stats:  13.6 points, 2.6 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 45%/33%/81% in 31.2mpg

Dude cmon now. You know you're just using career stats to have a (lame) reason to not want butler. You know jimmy didn't get a ton of time in his earlier years, and was only getting PT for his defense, right?

Yeah, I also know I've seen articles from Bulls fans who said his defense cratered once he was given a larger offensive role. 

Honestly, I haven't watched enough of Butler to really have a major opinion one way or the other.  Did you guys watch a ton of Bulls games this year?  I just know what I've read about him.  I'm fine with bringing him in, but I wouldn't overpay for him. 

As a 23 year old Ricky Davis put up Butler-esque stats of 20.6 points, 5.5 assists, 4.9 rebounds and 1.6 steals... It was his 5th season.  He was an effective player for a number of years.

This was Butler's 5th season.  The 26 year old has game.  Davis was a bit of a headcase (though I've heard Butler has a little of that in him as well) and Butler is widely believed to be a better defensive player (though playing for a team with an elite defensive identity impacted that a bit).   I'm not saying Davis was better than Butler.  I'm just saying that we've seen guys put up big stats for losers in the past.   I wouldn't mind trading for Butler if the price is right.  I wouldn't hold my breathe on him being the franchise player the team needs.

Your problem is instead of reading articles written about Butler from credible news sources or watching Bulls games, you are getting your information from uninformed and biased Bulls fans on blog sites. That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog. If people did that and took BBallTim seriously they would believe that Rondo was better than Jordan. If those people listened to triboy they would think Jordan Mickey was better than Bill Russell. If they listened to our group of young posters that love tanking they would have been convinced Ainge was an incompetent boob for not going all Hinkie. If they listened to some others they would be convinced Isaish Thomas isn't an All-Star caliber talent and should be coming off the bench. If they listened to you they would have been convinced that the Nets pick wouldn't have stood a chance at landing in the top ten of the lottery.

Time to start getting your information from better sources LB. Jimmy Butler is ten times the player Ricky Davis ever was.

Skip Bayless of Celtics Blog just got GOT

Lol.  Ridiculous.  His greatest claim in this bombshell of a post was that I get my info on jimmy butler from bulls fans.  Uh... 

First of all, I admitted what most people here are too stubborn to admit - I don't watch a ton of bulls games.  Neither do most of the Celtic fans here.   I said that I have to form my opinion mostly on information available about butler ... Same with pretty much everyone here since I doubt a lot of people on this forum watched him daily.   I did mention that there was a group of bulls fans who pointed out that butler's defensive efficiency had dropped significantly when his offensive role grew. 

So based on that, y'all think I got burned ?

The most relevant thing nikagneta said in his post was, " That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog"

So essentially, y'all are having histrionics about a guy who legitimizes my entire character premise.  That the opinions of most Celtic fans (such as you guys) are worthless. 

Pick your mic back up.

Yeah

[celticsclay]

Jimmy Butler for a 42 win Bulls team:  20.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.6 steals, 45%/31%/83%
Ricky Davis for a 33 win Celtic team:  19.7 points, 5.3 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 46%/32%/79%

Neither made the playoffs.   Butler had former MVP Derrick Rose, 6x All-star Pau Gasol, last year's ROY runnerup Nikola Mirotic and a solid bench of players like Taj Gibson. 

I wouldn't mind bringing in Butler, but I'm not overpaying for premium-brand Ricky Davis.

Jimmy Butler for a 50-win Bulls team: 20.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.8 steals, 46.2%/37.8%/83.4%

Ricky Davis Career stats:  13.5 points, 3.3 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 1 steal 45%/36%/78% in 29.8mpg

Jimmy Butler Career stats:  13.6 points, 2.6 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 45%/33%/81% in 31.2mpg

Dude cmon now. You know you're just using career stats to have a (lame) reason to not want butler. You know jimmy didn't get a ton of time in his earlier years, and was only getting PT for his defense, right?

Yeah, I also know I've seen articles from Bulls fans who said his defense cratered once he was given a larger offensive role. 

Honestly, I haven't watched enough of Butler to really have a major opinion one way or the other.  Did you guys watch a ton of Bulls games this year?  I just know what I've read about him.  I'm fine with bringing him in, but I wouldn't overpay for him. 

As a 23 year old Ricky Davis put up Butler-esque stats of 20.6 points, 5.5 assists, 4.9 rebounds and 1.6 steals... It was his 5th season.  He was an effective player for a number of years.

This was Butler's 5th season.  The 26 year old has game.  Davis was a bit of a headcase (though I've heard Butler has a little of that in him as well) and Butler is widely believed to be a better defensive player (though playing for a team with an elite defensive identity impacted that a bit).   I'm not saying Davis was better than Butler.  I'm just saying that we've seen guys put up big stats for losers in the past.   I wouldn't mind trading for Butler if the price is right.  I wouldn't hold my breathe on him being the franchise player the team needs.

Your problem is instead of reading articles written about Butler from credible news sources or watching Bulls games, you are getting your information from uninformed and biased Bulls fans on blog sites. That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog. If people did that and took BBallTim seriously they would believe that Rondo was better than Jordan. If those people listened to triboy they would think Jordan Mickey was better than Bill Russell. If they listened to our group of young posters that love tanking they would have been convinced Ainge was an incompetent boob for not going all Hinkie. If they listened to some others they would be convinced Isaish Thomas isn't an All-Star caliber talent and should be coming off the bench. If they listened to you they would have been convinced that the Nets pick wouldn't have stood a chance at landing in the top ten of the lottery.

Time to start getting your information from better sources LB. Jimmy Butler is ten times the player Ricky Davis ever was.

Skip Bayless of Celtics Blog just got GOT

Lol.  Ridiculous.  His greatest claim in this bombshell of a post was that I get my info on jimmy butler from bulls fans.  Uh... 

First of all, I admitted what most people here are too stubborn to admit - I don't watch a ton of bulls games.  Neither do most of the Celtic fans here.   I said that I have to form my opinion mostly on information available about butler ... Same with pretty much everyone here since I doubt a lot of people on this forum watched him daily.   I did mention that there was a group of bulls fans who pointed out that butler's defensive efficiency had dropped significantly when his offensive role grew. 

So based on that, y'all think I got burned ?

The most relevant thing nikagneta said in his post was, " That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog"

So essentially, y'all are having histrionics about a guy who legitimizes my entire character premise.  That the opinions of most Celtic fans (such as you guys) are worthless. 

Pick your mic back up.

Yeah

it is his mic, and i don't think he is coming back to get it.

[LarBrd33]

Jimmy Butler for a 42 win Bulls team:  20.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.6 steals, 45%/31%/83%
Ricky Davis for a 33 win Celtic team:  19.7 points, 5.3 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 46%/32%/79%

Neither made the playoffs.   Butler had former MVP Derrick Rose, 6x All-star Pau Gasol, last year's ROY runnerup Nikola Mirotic and a solid bench of players like Taj Gibson. 

I wouldn't mind bringing in Butler, but I'm not overpaying for premium-brand Ricky Davis.

Jimmy Butler for a 50-win Bulls team: 20.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.8 steals, 46.2%/37.8%/83.4%

Ricky Davis Career stats:  13.5 points, 3.3 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 1 steal 45%/36%/78% in 29.8mpg

Jimmy Butler Career stats:  13.6 points, 2.6 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 45%/33%/81% in 31.2mpg

Dude cmon now. You know you're just using career stats to have a (lame) reason to not want butler. You know jimmy didn't get a ton of time in his earlier years, and was only getting PT for his defense, right?

Yeah, I also know I've seen articles from Bulls fans who said his defense cratered once he was given a larger offensive role. 

Honestly, I haven't watched enough of Butler to really have a major opinion one way or the other.  Did you guys watch a ton of Bulls games this year?  I just know what I've read about him.  I'm fine with bringing him in, but I wouldn't overpay for him. 

As a 23 year old Ricky Davis put up Butler-esque stats of 20.6 points, 5.5 assists, 4.9 rebounds and 1.6 steals... It was his 5th season.  He was an effective player for a number of years.

This was Butler's 5th season.  The 26 year old has game.  Davis was a bit of a headcase (though I've heard Butler has a little of that in him as well) and Butler is widely believed to be a better defensive player (though playing for a team with an elite defensive identity impacted that a bit).   I'm not saying Davis was better than Butler.  I'm just saying that we've seen guys put up big stats for losers in the past.   I wouldn't mind trading for Butler if the price is right.  I wouldn't hold my breathe on him being the franchise player the team needs.

Your problem is instead of reading articles written about Butler from credible news sources or watching Bulls games, you are getting your information from uninformed and biased Bulls fans on blog sites. That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog. If people did that and took BBallTim seriously they would believe that Rondo was better than Jordan. If those people listened to triboy they would think Jordan Mickey was better than Bill Russell. If they listened to our group of young posters that love tanking they would have been convinced Ainge was an incompetent boob for not going all Hinkie. If they listened to some others they would be convinced Isaish Thomas isn't an All-Star caliber talent and should be coming off the bench. If they listened to you they would have been convinced that the Nets pick wouldn't have stood a chance at landing in the top ten of the lottery.

Time to start getting your information from better sources LB. Jimmy Butler is ten times the player Ricky Davis ever was.

Skip Bayless of Celtics Blog just got GOT

Lol.  Ridiculous.  His greatest claim in this bombshell of a post was that I get my info on jimmy butler from bulls fans.  Uh... 

First of all, I admitted what most people here are too stubborn to admit - I don't watch a ton of bulls games.  Neither do most of the Celtic fans here.   I said that I have to form my opinion mostly on information available about butler ... Same with pretty much everyone here since I doubt a lot of people on this forum watched him daily.   I did mention that there was a group of bulls fans who pointed out that butler's defensive efficiency had dropped significantly when his offensive role grew. 

So based on that, y'all think I got burned ?

The most relevant thing nikagneta said in his post was, " That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog"

So essentially, y'all are having histrionics about a guy who legitimizes my entire character premise.  That the opinions of most Celtic fans (such as you guys) are worthless. 

Pick your mic back up.

Yeah

it is his mic, and i don't think he is coming back to get it.

Anyways... I stand by my original comment.  I wouldn't overpay for Butler unless it guaranteed us Durant.   If Butler was a franchise-level talent, the Bulls wouldn't be hypothetically shopping him.  It sounds like it would cost us a pretty hefty price to bring him in.   I'm guesstimating all of our picks + Bradley, Smart or Crowder.  It could get expensive real quick.   

Do you think Butler would cost less than that?  If so, welcome to a self-created paradox.  You can't claim Butler is a superstar above criticism while at the same time arguing his price should be cheap. 

I'm fine with bringing in Butler.  In-fact, I wrote an entire 4000 page article with our "best-case" scenario involving bringing in Butler and two max contract players.  I'm just saying, I wouldn't overpay for him unless it lead to free agent signings.  We could very easily give up the majority of our tradeable assets and have no room for follow-up trades.  That means we'd have to rely on free agency to add the other stars.  If we can't land other stars via free agency, I'm not comfortable going all-in for Butler.  I don't see him as a franchise player (neither do the Bulls, apparently).   And our goal is obviously to get a franchise player.   I'd see Butler more like the Ray Allen move we hope to lead to the KG move.  But if there's no KG move to be made, it might be a bad idea.

[walker834]

I agree with you.  Butler is probably better than Horford but not as good as Love or Durant.   Butler excites me more than Horford for some reason just because he's a shot maker. I don't really want Butler though.  I like our guards. I also think this draft is loaded with some good ones.  Jaylen Brown is more exciting to me and we don't have to give up anything for him.

Butler is a less injury prone and more consistant AB. AB knocks down big shots though too when he's healthy.

Why do we need Butler when we have Isaiah.  I like how our guards share the ball.  Playing time is an issue and getting a more consistant performer might be good. But I'd rather draft Jaylen Brown.

Get scorers in other ways.

[walker834]

Isaiah, Butler and Love or Durant would be the pipedream though. With guys like Smart off the bench if we can even keep him in deals like that.  I would not give up valuable assets for him either unless it's like a perfect storm scenario depending on what is going on with teams like Cleveland as well. I wouldn't sell this team short at all. Even that team isn't going to beat Lebron if he counters. Maybe once or twice.  But I'd rather just build this in ways and try to maximize everything.

Those KG, Ray Pierce teams were good but I feel like we can do better if really build this.  Isaiah, Butler and Love or Durant is negligable anyways.  It's not even necessarily better than that or as good.

We had to go up against Kobe but Lebron is just as tough if not tougher plus teams like Golden State.

[jambr380]

I love LarBrd - way to defend yourself in a humorous and articulate way. While I would like Butler on the Cs, I would hope it would be part of a bigger move. He probably is better than Ricky Davis, though  (who I actually liked quite a bit back in the day).