WOJ: Wagner, Bonga and Jones Traded to Wizards

[celticsclay]

What was Irvings kicker?

Same as Anthony Davis's 15% of his contract. Thought he absolute number was less due to his smaller contract.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/25/kyrie-irving-leaves-1668172-5845172-on-the-table-by-waiving-trade-kicker/

There are weird rules about how trade kickers work that I"m not 100% on, but it sounds like he gave up 1.6 million.

I guess it is fair to point that out, but waiving 1.6 million sounds a lot less sketchy than just giving up a 4 million. I know it is easy to say I am just being anti-Laker and pro-celtic here, but I honestly wouldn't be bothered if he had taken half of it or something like that. 4 million is quite a bit.

He'll get the $4 million back & then some for Space Jam 2.

That is circumventing the salary cap though?

[RJ87]

What was Irvings kicker?

Same as Anthony Davis's 15% of his contract. Thought he absolute number was less due to his smaller contract.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/25/kyrie-irving-leaves-1668172-5845172-on-the-table-by-waiving-trade-kicker/

There are weird rules about how trade kickers work that I"m not 100% on, but it sounds like he gave up 1.6 million.

I guess it is fair to point that out, but waiving 1.6 million sounds a lot less sketchy than just giving up a 4 million. I know it is easy to say I am just being anti-Laker and pro-celtic here, but I honestly wouldn't be bothered if he had taken half of it or something like that. 4 million is quite a bit.

He'll get the $4 million back & then some for Space Jam 2.

That is circumventing the salary cap though?

It's really not. He's not violating any rules by waiving the trade kicker. He'll get that back within of new, shiny LA endorsements.

[Fafnir]

That is circumventing the salary cap though?

It certainly could be if he's paid more than market rate. What is market rate for appearing as a NBA player in a kid's movie, who knows.

Lakers have built in advantages. 

[celticsclay]

Great job Klutch sports, not being able to take 4 mil $ of already promised money to their agent.
An agent that is a top 5 player in the league. Ridiculous.
Someone is giving you a lot of earned money only to be refused.

NBA, this isn't a conflict of interest?
Worth investigating? No?
 
Well, LBJ is a golden cow after all.
Lets all just act dumb.

PS: 4th pick after having 11th best chances.
Which was the only chance they could ever get AD.
Smart folks can conclude.

Well plenty of players have waived trade kickers in the past, NBA has just accepted it. Kyrie waived his to get to Boston IIRC.

Kyrie wasn't de facto an NBA player agent.
Way to represent your clients interest.

This feels like sour grapes. Players waive trade kickers all the time - it's perfectly legal for him to do so to benefit his new team.

It's like the Al/tampering thing all over again. Everyone was up in arms over Al, but no one is complaining now that it looks like we're tampering with Kemba.

I would agree with you if people were serious about tampering with al. What i saw was mostly people joking about it. I do think there is a legit issue with how much power Klutch has right now and some of the stuff that has happened (they have also been fined). I agree with the other posters that the trade kickers should either be mandatory or not existent. This is making the contracts not valid.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I'm trying to imagine AD and Klutch having this conversation.

Rich Paul: "Hey, you know what will be a good idea? Give up the $4 million you're about to earn with this trade."

Anthony Davis; "LOL, okay."

[Donoghus]

What was Irvings kicker?

Same as Anthony Davis's 15% of his contract. Thought he absolute number was less due to his smaller contract.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/25/kyrie-irving-leaves-1668172-5845172-on-the-table-by-waiving-trade-kicker/

There are weird rules about how trade kickers work that I"m not 100% on, but it sounds like he gave up 1.6 million.

I guess it is fair to point that out, but waiving 1.6 million sounds a lot less sketchy than just giving up a 4 million. I know it is easy to say I am just being anti-Laker and pro-celtic here, but I honestly wouldn't be bothered if he had taken half of it or something like that. 4 million is quite a bit.

He'll get the $4 million back & then some for Space Jam 2.

That is circumventing the salary cap though?

It was said a bit tongue & cheek but it would certainly pass the smell test of tampering if you asked me.

[Fafnir]

I'm trying to imagine AD and Klutch having this conversation.

Rich Paul: "Hey, you know what will be a good idea? Give up the $4 million you're about to earn with this trade."

Anthony Davis; "LOL, okay."

All reports were that he wasn't waiving it.

My guess is that they had a FA lined up before he agreed to waive it.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I'm trying to imagine AD and Klutch having this conversation.

Rich Paul: "Hey, you know what will be a good idea? Give up the $4 million you're about to earn with this trade."

Anthony Davis; "LOL, okay."

All reports were that he wasn't waiving it.

My guess is that they had a FA lined up before he agreed to waive it.

I'm sure he's going to earn it somewhere else. Maybe his talent fee for doing Space Jam is $4 million more?

[RJ87]

Great job Klutch sports, not being able to take 4 mil $ of already promised money to their agent.
An agent that is a top 5 player in the league. Ridiculous.
Someone is giving you a lot of earned money only to be refused.

NBA, this isn't a conflict of interest?
Worth investigating? No?
 
Well, LBJ is a golden cow after all.
Lets all just act dumb.

PS: 4th pick after having 11th best chances.
Which was the only chance they could ever get AD.
Smart folks can conclude.

Well plenty of players have waived trade kickers in the past, NBA has just accepted it. Kyrie waived his to get to Boston IIRC.

Kyrie wasn't de facto an NBA player agent.
Way to represent your clients interest.

This feels like sour grapes. Players waive trade kickers all the time - it's perfectly legal for him to do so to benefit his new team.

It's like the Al/tampering thing all over again. Everyone was up in arms over Al, but no one is complaining now that it looks like we're tampering with Kemba.

I would agree with you if people were serious about tampering with al. What i saw was mostly people joking about it. I do think there is a legit issue with how much power Klutch has right now and some of the stuff that has happened (they have also been fined). I agree with the other posters that the trade kickers should either be mandatory or not existent. This is making the contracts not valid.

Again, this feels like sour grapes. If AD was coming to the Celtics and waived his kicker, I have a strong feeling that the response would be really different - he's making a sacrifice to allow his team to make additions that give them a chance at a championship.

[liam]

Will Bonga just be cut. He was my draft binky from last year.

[celticsclay]

Great job Klutch sports, not being able to take 4 mil $ of already promised money to their agent.
An agent that is a top 5 player in the league. Ridiculous.
Someone is giving you a lot of earned money only to be refused.

NBA, this isn't a conflict of interest?
Worth investigating? No?
 
Well, LBJ is a golden cow after all.
Lets all just act dumb.

PS: 4th pick after having 11th best chances.
Which was the only chance they could ever get AD.
Smart folks can conclude.

Well plenty of players have waived trade kickers in the past, NBA has just accepted it. Kyrie waived his to get to Boston IIRC.

Kyrie wasn't de facto an NBA player agent.
Way to represent your clients interest.

This feels like sour grapes. Players waive trade kickers all the time - it's perfectly legal for him to do so to benefit his new team.

It's like the Al/tampering thing all over again. Everyone was up in arms over Al, but no one is complaining now that it looks like we're tampering with Kemba.

I would agree with you if people were serious about tampering with al. What i saw was mostly people joking about it. I do think there is a legit issue with how much power Klutch has right now and some of the stuff that has happened (they have also been fined). I agree with the other posters that the trade kickers should either be mandatory or not existent. This is making the contracts not valid.

Again, this feels like sour grapes. If AD was coming to the Celtics and waived his kicker, I have a strong feeling that the response would be really different - he's making a sacrifice to allow his team to make additions that give them a chance at a championship.

I mean if it makes you feel better call it sour grapes. Speaking for myself, I can assure you that is not what is going on here. I honestly think it is a problem for the NBA and I said this before today's news. If you have players that cost different amounts for different teams it is bad for the league. Teams like memphis, minnesota, etc are not going to be able to compete with being in a small market and a powerful agency forcing players to go to one team where it costs them 4 million less than it would for that same player to go to a different team. Was it crappy that Irving did it? Sure, but there is 4 million is also 2.5 times 1.6 and you can actually sign a decent player for 4 million where 1.6 is basically a minimum.

I hope the CBA addresses this loophole with trade kickers where they either can't be waived or they don't exist. Its bad for the league period.

For what it's worth the Red Sox had a deal for Alex Rodriguez like 15 years ago where arod was going to give up some money. If memory serves correct the league refused to let him do that and the trade never happened. i thought that was fair at the time.

[RJ87]

Great job Klutch sports, not being able to take 4 mil $ of already promised money to their agent.
An agent that is a top 5 player in the league. Ridiculous.
Someone is giving you a lot of earned money only to be refused.

NBA, this isn't a conflict of interest?
Worth investigating? No?
 
Well, LBJ is a golden cow after all.
Lets all just act dumb.

PS: 4th pick after having 11th best chances.
Which was the only chance they could ever get AD.
Smart folks can conclude.

Well plenty of players have waived trade kickers in the past, NBA has just accepted it. Kyrie waived his to get to Boston IIRC.

Kyrie wasn't de facto an NBA player agent.
Way to represent your clients interest.

This feels like sour grapes. Players waive trade kickers all the time - it's perfectly legal for him to do so to benefit his new team.

It's like the Al/tampering thing all over again. Everyone was up in arms over Al, but no one is complaining now that it looks like we're tampering with Kemba.

I would agree with you if people were serious about tampering with al. What i saw was mostly people joking about it. I do think there is a legit issue with how much power Klutch has right now and some of the stuff that has happened (they have also been fined). I agree with the other posters that the trade kickers should either be mandatory or not existent. This is making the contracts not valid.

Again, this feels like sour grapes. If AD was coming to the Celtics and waived his kicker, I have a strong feeling that the response would be really different - he's making a sacrifice to allow his team to make additions that give them a chance at a championship.

I mean if it makes you feel better call it sour grapes. Speaking for myself, I can assure you that is not what is going on here. I honestly think it is a problem for the NBA and I said this before today's news. If you have players that cost different amounts for different teams it is bad for the league. Teams like memphis, minnesota, etc are not going to be able to compete with being in a small market and a powerful agency forcing players to go to one team where it costs them 4 million less than it would for that same player to go to a different team. Was it crappy that Irving did it? Sure, but there is 4 million is also 2.5 times 1.6 and you can actually sign a decent player for 4 million where 1.6 is basically a minimum.

I hope the CBA addresses this loophole with trade kickers where they either can't be waived or they don't exist. Its bad for the league period.

For what it's worth the Red Sox had a deal for Alex Rodriguez like 15 years ago where arod was going to give up some money. If memory serves correct the league refused to let him do that and the trade never happened. i thought that was fair at the time.

What you're talking about is player autonomy. Players want freedom to dictate where they go and I have a difficult time seeing the Player's Association agree to any CBA rules that restrict player autonomy in any way. And quite frankly, I don't think the league would be interested in that . Player movement = more visibility and press coverage. The offseason of the NBA is must watch just as much as the season and playoffs are.

As far as A-Rod and the Sox, the MLB doesn't have a salary cap so it's a totally different scenario.

EDIT: Grammar. Sheesh.

[BringToughnessBack]

Wonder how Kawhi is feeling about LA now? This is far from days of old Nash and Malone...this is prime Davis plus another max agent coming soon joined by old, but still lethal Lebron...very different in my opinion. Kyrie in LA would make me sick as well. The hatred between Celtics and Lakers would get an impossible boost once again.

Lakers will be challenging for title next year and for a few years after that barring unforeseen injury. Sickening.

[tazzmaniac]

What was Irvings kicker?

Same as Anthony Davis's 15% of his contract. Thought he absolute number was less due to his smaller contract.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/25/kyrie-irving-leaves-1668172-5845172-on-the-table-by-waiving-trade-kicker/

There are weird rules about how trade kickers work that I"m not 100% on, but it sounds like he gave up 1.6 million.

I guess it is fair to point that out, but waiving 1.6 million sounds a lot less sketchy than just giving up a 4 million. I know it is easy to say I am just being anti-Laker and pro-celtic here, but I honestly wouldn't be bothered if he had taken half of it or something like that. 4 million is quite a bit.

Irving's 15% trade kicker was actually worth 5.8M over two seasons.  If he would have demanded the full kicker, the deal would have had to be restructured.  The 1.6M over two years is the max that he could have gotten within the deal that went through.   

[tazzmaniac]

Great job Klutch sports, not being able to take 4 mil $ of already promised money to their agent.
An agent that is a top 5 player in the league. Ridiculous.
Someone is giving you a lot of earned money only to be refused.

NBA, this isn't a conflict of interest?
Worth investigating? No?
 
Well, LBJ is a golden cow after all.
Lets all just act dumb.

PS: 4th pick after having 11th best chances.
Which was the only chance they could ever get AD.
Smart folks can conclude.

Well plenty of players have waived trade kickers in the past, NBA has just accepted it. Kyrie waived his to get to Boston IIRC.

Kyrie wasn't de facto an NBA player agent.
Way to represent your clients interest.

This feels like sour grapes. Players waive trade kickers all the time - it's perfectly legal for him to do so to benefit his new team.

It's like the Al/tampering thing all over again. Everyone was up in arms over Al, but no one is complaining now that it looks like we're tampering with Kemba.

I would agree with you if people were serious about tampering with al. What i saw was mostly people joking about it. I do think there is a legit issue with how much power Klutch has right now and some of the stuff that has happened (they have also been fined). I agree with the other posters that the trade kickers should either be mandatory or not existent. This is making the contracts not valid.

Again, this feels like sour grapes. If AD was coming to the Celtics and waived his kicker, I have a strong feeling that the response would be really different - he's making a sacrifice to allow his team to make additions that give them a chance at a championship.

I mean if it makes you feel better call it sour grapes. Speaking for myself, I can assure you that is not what is going on here. I honestly think it is a problem for the NBA and I said this before today's news. If you have players that cost different amounts for different teams it is bad for the league. Teams like memphis, minnesota, etc are not going to be able to compete with being in a small market and a powerful agency forcing players to go to one team where it costs them 4 million less than it would for that same player to go to a different team. Was it crappy that Irving did it? Sure, but there is 4 million is also 2.5 times 1.6 and you can actually sign a decent player for 4 million where 1.6 is basically a minimum.

I hope the CBA addresses this loophole with trade kickers where they either can't be waived or they don't exist. Its bad for the league period.

For what it's worth the Red Sox had a deal for Alex Rodriguez like 15 years ago where arod was going to give up some money. If memory serves correct the league refused to let him do that and the trade never happened. i thought that was fair at the time.

What you're talking about is player autonomy. Players want freedom to dictate where they go and I have a difficult seeing the Player's Association agree to any CBA rules that restrict player autonomy in any way. And quite frankly, I don't think the league would be interested in that anyway. Player movement = more visibility and press coverage. The offseason of the NBA is much watch just as much as the season and playoffs are.

As far as A-Rod and the Sox, the MLB doesn't have a salary cap so it's a totally different scenario.

I'm sure the player association would like even more autonomy.  With restricted free agency, teams essentially have control over top young players for 8 years.