Author Topic: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)  (Read 191525 times)

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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 underway, make your picks!!)
« Reply #540 on: August 24, 2019, 11:28:26 PM »

Offline Somebody

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With 2(11) the Celtics select the Admiral, David Robinson

For the record, I am not hating the pick, I think it's great.

With that said, I absolutely debated between three guys on my list. One is John Havlicek, another was David Robinson, and then a third who I can't name because he hasn't been picked yet. And I really tried long and hard to argue to myself into picking The Admiral, and I really almost did. The one thing that prevented me was Hakeem Olajuwon.

It just every time I think about Hakeem dominating David on Robinson's MVP year, I cannot get past that. Robinson is a heck of a player, one of the best we have ever seen. Dominant on both ends. A leader. Excellent teammate. But in the end, that little blemish made pick Hondo over him.

I feel the same way about David Robinson.  Luckily he was drafted into the East and Hakeem is in the West, so there's no guarantee that D-Rob will have to match up against him.
I probably won't even penalise David Robinson for that lol. 1995 was a perfect storm to screw him up-I don't think I can blame him when the circumstances were so uniquely disadvantageous to him.
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #541 on: August 24, 2019, 11:30:38 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Observations and questions:

Can Chicago land a center who can defend Shaq, Wilt, and D-Rob?  I think there is 1 or 2, maybe 3, centers available who could possibly fit that bill.  If so, then with Duncan being able to defend Dirk and Malone, plus having Oscar Robertson on offense I think could make them my favorites in the East (of course unless another team really nails their pick).  Lot can still change though.

Hakeem and Kobe seem to be such an ideal fit on paper.  I think GreenFaith's point about their types of leadership is a really interesting one that I hadn't thought of, and probably accurate.

Durant and Russell is a very nice pairing.  Curious to see if Durant eventually gets slotted in at SF or PF.  He will get murdered by PFs like Duncan and KG maybe Malone too, but he'd be such a fantastic floor spacer on an all-time team and offensive player at PF.  He's a rare player who might have been able to defend Dirk at the 4 to some degree?

IMO, there are a few players who "broke the game" through history.  I have those players as being Wilt, Russell, Magic & Larry, Jordan, Shaq, Curry.  Not necessarily the best 7 players of all time, but they all did something that near future players/teams either tried to hard emulate or every team had to go overboard into trying to stop.  They are players that are really fascinating to build around and I think those teams are doing a fine job so far.

I haven't decided how much I should penalize poor FT shooters.  I think it's pretty clear that every team is capable of at least a > 57 TS% even against the great defenses being assembled.  Is a hack-a-shaq strategies on sub 55% ft shooters a way to gain an advantage over those teams?  Not literal hack-a-shaq, but fouling whenever they touch the ball.  You can only do it for so many possessions a game, but every edge helps.  I've been considering that in my roster selection.

Something I love about Utah is how much transition offense we'll create with MJ's steals and Walton's fast break initiating mindset, passing, and defense.  I see a lot of teams that will be able to get out in transition, but Utah looks to be leading in that regard so far.  I'm not sure if I will keep building that way or not though.
Do they really need one though? Duncan played C a lot during his career, and posted one of the best defensive stats as a center with his interior defense. I definitely think he can hold up against the behemoths of the league, and in turn take advantage of them with his speed.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #542 on: August 24, 2019, 11:41:55 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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The only problem kobe ever had with other players was ones that
A) didnt practice or play as hard as he did
B) didnt perform on the court.

A scoring guard that logged 6300 assists in his career is definately a facilitator. "Shoot all the shots kobe" only happened when he had teammates that didnt perform. Period.

Kobe also has great respect for hakeem.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-thanks-hakeem-olajuwon-after-final-game-in-houston/

There is no issue between kobe and hakeem. Mutal respect. Both hyper competetive and driven and both winners.

It is easy to admire players from afar, but once the shoes are laced up and they actually PLAY WITH one another it is a different story.

Again - as I posted when I sent you PMs - I just think you will need a strong glue guy or two to bridge the gap with Kobe and Hakeem. While they are both competitors Hakeem is a different personality than Shaq. Just my observation.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 11:50:21 PM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #543 on: August 24, 2019, 11:52:05 PM »

Offline Somebody

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The only problem kobe ever had with other players was ones that
A) didnt practice or play as hard as he did
B) didnt perform on the court.

A scoring guard that logged 6300 assists in his career is definately a facilitator. "Shoot all the shots kobe" only happened when he had teammates that didnt perform. Period.

Kobe also has great respect for hakeem.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-thanks-hakeem-olajuwon-after-final-game-in-houston/

There is no issue between kobe and hakeem. Mutal respect. Both hyper competetive and driven and both winners.

It is easy to admire players from afar, but once the shoes are laced up and they actually PLAY WITH one another it is a different story.

Again - as I posted when I sent you PMs - I just think you will need a strong glue guy or two to bridge the gap with Kobe and Hakeem. While they are both competitors Hakeem is a different personality than Shaq. Just my observation.
I don't like the duo at all tbh. Both of them require the offense to be built around them at their peaks, so unless you're willing to use a younger not in prime iteration for one of them, I see the fit as awkward at best. Shaq and Robinson were special out of the big 4 in the 90s-both of them had scalable games, especially the latter with his face up/PnP/PnR/garbage man game.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #544 on: August 25, 2019, 12:05:05 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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The only problem kobe ever had with other players was ones that
A) didnt practice or play as hard as he did
B) didnt perform on the court.

A scoring guard that logged 6300 assists in his career is definately a facilitator. "Shoot all the shots kobe" only happened when he had teammates that didnt perform. Period.

Kobe also has great respect for hakeem.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-thanks-hakeem-olajuwon-after-final-game-in-houston/

There is no issue between kobe and hakeem. Mutal respect. Both hyper competetive and driven and both winners.

It is easy to admire players from afar, but once the shoes are laced up and they actually PLAY WITH one another it is a different story.

Again - as I posted when I sent you PMs - I just think you will need a strong glue guy or two to bridge the gap with Kobe and Hakeem. While they are both competitors Hakeem is a different personality than Shaq. Just my observation.
I don't like the duo at all tbh. Both of them require the offense to be built around them at their peaks, so unless you're willing to use a younger not in prime iteration for one of them, I see the fit as awkward at best. Shaq and Robinson were special out of the big 4 in the 90s-both of them had scalable games, especially the latter with his face up/PnP/PnR/garbage man game.

That is why for ME, at least - I had to look at PERSONALITIES and fit...Shaq and Jerry could play off each other easily and allow each other to thrive.

Jerry wouldn't drive Shaq out of LA.

Same with YOUR team - Steph Curry - while being a future HOFer and an All-Time Great - would get along FINE with KG, and vice versa.

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #545 on: August 25, 2019, 12:22:11 AM »

Offline Somebody

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The only problem kobe ever had with other players was ones that
A) didnt practice or play as hard as he did
B) didnt perform on the court.

A scoring guard that logged 6300 assists in his career is definately a facilitator. "Shoot all the shots kobe" only happened when he had teammates that didnt perform. Period.

Kobe also has great respect for hakeem.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-thanks-hakeem-olajuwon-after-final-game-in-houston/

There is no issue between kobe and hakeem. Mutal respect. Both hyper competetive and driven and both winners.

It is easy to admire players from afar, but once the shoes are laced up and they actually PLAY WITH one another it is a different story.

Again - as I posted when I sent you PMs - I just think you will need a strong glue guy or two to bridge the gap with Kobe and Hakeem. While they are both competitors Hakeem is a different personality than Shaq. Just my observation.
I don't like the duo at all tbh. Both of them require the offense to be built around them at their peaks, so unless you're willing to use a younger not in prime iteration for one of them, I see the fit as awkward at best. Shaq and Robinson were special out of the big 4 in the 90s-both of them had scalable games, especially the latter with his face up/PnP/PnR/garbage man game.

That is why for ME, at least - I had to look at PERSONALITIES and fit...Shaq and Jerry could play off each other easily and allow each other to thrive.

Jerry wouldn't drive Shaq out of LA.

Same with YOUR team - Steph Curry - while being a future HOFer and an All-Time Great - would get along FINE with KG, and vice versa.
Absolutely. I tend to ignore personality unless I'm dealing with a major nutcase, but in this case the skillsets really don't mesh well imo unless you dramatically scale back one of their games (Hakeem or Kobe). Obviously Silky can argue that he has superior talent compared to other teams, but I don't see Kobe having a significant advantage over other 2nd options in terms of team "lift", even if the system is tweaked to completely suit his playstyle. Hakeem is one of the greatest floor raisers against the stingiest defenses in the playoffs though.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #546 on: August 25, 2019, 06:52:00 AM »

Offline action781

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Observations and questions:

Can Chicago land a center who can defend Shaq, Wilt, and D-Rob?  I think there is 1 or 2, maybe 3, centers available who could possibly fit that bill.  If so, then with Duncan being able to defend Dirk and Malone, plus having Oscar Robertson on offense I think could make them my favorites in the East (of course unless another team really nails their pick).  Lot can still change though.

Hakeem and Kobe seem to be such an ideal fit on paper.  I think GreenFaith's point about their types of leadership is a really interesting one that I hadn't thought of, and probably accurate.

Durant and Russell is a very nice pairing.  Curious to see if Durant eventually gets slotted in at SF or PF.  He will get murdered by PFs like Duncan and KG maybe Malone too, but he'd be such a fantastic floor spacer on an all-time team and offensive player at PF.  He's a rare player who might have been able to defend Dirk at the 4 to some degree?

IMO, there are a few players who "broke the game" through history.  I have those players as being Wilt, Russell, Magic & Larry, Jordan, Shaq, Curry.  Not necessarily the best 7 players of all time, but they all did something that near future players/teams either tried to hard emulate or every team had to go overboard into trying to stop.  They are players that are really fascinating to build around and I think those teams are doing a fine job so far.

I haven't decided how much I should penalize poor FT shooters.  I think it's pretty clear that every team is capable of at least a > 57 TS% even against the great defenses being assembled.  Is a hack-a-shaq strategies on sub 55% ft shooters a way to gain an advantage over those teams?  Not literal hack-a-shaq, but fouling whenever they touch the ball.  You can only do it for so many possessions a game, but every edge helps.  I've been considering that in my roster selection.

Something I love about Utah is how much transition offense we'll create with MJ's steals and Walton's fast break initiating mindset, passing, and defense.  I see a lot of teams that will be able to get out in transition, but Utah looks to be leading in that regard so far.  I'm not sure if I will keep building that way or not though.
Do they really need one though? Duncan played C a lot during his career, and posted one of the best defensive stats as a center with his interior defense. I definitely think he can hold up against the behemoths of the league, and in turn take advantage of them with his speed.
Duncan playing C was more towards the end of his career when the entire league got smaller and there were less good offensive centers in the league.  If he could have played center during his prime, then the Spurs wouldn't have had a need to start guys like Rasho Nesterovic, Tiago Splitter, Fabricio Oberto, etc. (I think its safe to say their names)
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #547 on: August 25, 2019, 07:23:33 AM »

Offline action781

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The only problem kobe ever had with other players was ones that
A) didnt practice or play as hard as he did
B) didnt perform on the court.

A scoring guard that logged 6300 assists in his career is definately a facilitator. "Shoot all the shots kobe" only happened when he had teammates that didnt perform. Period.

Kobe also has great respect for hakeem.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-thanks-hakeem-olajuwon-after-final-game-in-houston/

There is no issue between kobe and hakeem. Mutal respect. Both hyper competetive and driven and both winners.

Silky, I don't think there would be an issue between Kobe and Hakeem.  I agree they would have respect for each other.  I just think that it will be Kobe's team, not Hakeem's. 

We all know Kobe (and Buss) wanted the Lakers to be his team, not Shaq's team.  It's what led to Shaq eventually demanding to be traded.  Shaq didn't have the personality to accept that, hence the clash.  I think Hakeem will have the personality to accept being 1B to Kobe's 1A for the betterment of the team and chemistry.  But Kobe will be the leader.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #548 on: August 25, 2019, 07:51:01 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Observations and questions:

Can Chicago land a center who can defend Shaq, Wilt, and D-Rob?  I think there is 1 or 2, maybe 3, centers available who could possibly fit that bill.  If so, then with Duncan being able to defend Dirk and Malone, plus having Oscar Robertson on offense I think could make them my favorites in the East (of course unless another team really nails their pick).  Lot can still change though.

Hakeem and Kobe seem to be such an ideal fit on paper.  I think GreenFaith's point about their types of leadership is a really interesting one that I hadn't thought of, and probably accurate.

Durant and Russell is a very nice pairing.  Curious to see if Durant eventually gets slotted in at SF or PF.  He will get murdered by PFs like Duncan and KG maybe Malone too, but he'd be such a fantastic floor spacer on an all-time team and offensive player at PF.  He's a rare player who might have been able to defend Dirk at the 4 to some degree?

IMO, there are a few players who "broke the game" through history.  I have those players as being Wilt, Russell, Magic & Larry, Jordan, Shaq, Curry.  Not necessarily the best 7 players of all time, but they all did something that near future players/teams either tried to hard emulate or every team had to go overboard into trying to stop.  They are players that are really fascinating to build around and I think those teams are doing a fine job so far.

I haven't decided how much I should penalize poor FT shooters.  I think it's pretty clear that every team is capable of at least a > 57 TS% even against the great defenses being assembled.  Is a hack-a-shaq strategies on sub 55% ft shooters a way to gain an advantage over those teams?  Not literal hack-a-shaq, but fouling whenever they touch the ball.  You can only do it for so many possessions a game, but every edge helps.  I've been considering that in my roster selection.

Something I love about Utah is how much transition offense we'll create with MJ's steals and Walton's fast break initiating mindset, passing, and defense.  I see a lot of teams that will be able to get out in transition, but Utah looks to be leading in that regard so far.  I'm not sure if I will keep building that way or not though.
Do they really need one though? Duncan played C a lot during his career, and posted one of the best defensive stats as a center with his interior defense. I definitely think he can hold up against the behemoths of the league, and in turn take advantage of them with his speed.
Duncan playing C was more towards the end of his career when the entire league got smaller and there were less good offensive centers in the league.  If he could have played center during his prime, then the Spurs wouldn't have had a need to start guys like Rasho Nesterovic, Tiago Splitter, Fabricio Oberto, etc. (I think its safe to say their names)
I mean he did prefer to play PF ala a certain big man now in Los Angeles, who could play C as well as anyone in the league right now but has forced his team to start Javale McGee (surely his name can be mentioned right?!) at C to play him at PF. I think prime Duncan playing C isn't a huge issue-he had more muscle than KG or Dirk and defended guys like Shaq pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV1w6xUbLWs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrChJym7cRI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZhIJjJOUJ8
Obviously he would need a good backup C who can defend and play next to him in this exercise (as Timmy still had an old David Robinson who was a fringe All-Star as a partner to guard Shaq), but I don't see much issue in him playing C for decently long stretches. They could get that backup C later on in the draft imo, and focus on getting the necessary glue guys to complement Oscar's ball dominance and Duncan's strong inside game that also demands the ball quite a bit right now. I probably exaggerated a bit with my first statement of them not needing a beefy defensive center, but I still think that it's not a truly pressing need atm.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #549 on: August 25, 2019, 07:53:38 AM »

Offline Somebody

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The only problem kobe ever had with other players was ones that
A) didnt practice or play as hard as he did
B) didnt perform on the court.

A scoring guard that logged 6300 assists in his career is definately a facilitator. "Shoot all the shots kobe" only happened when he had teammates that didnt perform. Period.

Kobe also has great respect for hakeem.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-thanks-hakeem-olajuwon-after-final-game-in-houston/

There is no issue between kobe and hakeem. Mutal respect. Both hyper competetive and driven and both winners.

Silky, I don't think there would be an issue between Kobe and Hakeem.  I agree they would have respect for each other.  I just think that it will be Kobe's team, not Hakeem's. 

We all know Kobe (and Buss) wanted the Lakers to be his team, not Shaq's team.  It's what led to Shaq eventually demanding to be traded.  Shaq didn't have the personality to accept that, hence the clash.  I think Hakeem will have the personality to accept being 1B to Kobe's 1A for the betterment of the team and chemistry.  But Kobe will be the leader.
It'd be quite a waste of Hakeem's talent if Kobe became the 1A of the squad. Hakeem was better by a fair margin when it came to buoying teams imo, and had more devastating offense against tough defenses.
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #550 on: August 25, 2019, 09:52:52 AM »

Offline Silky

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The only problem kobe ever had with other players was ones that
A) didnt practice or play as hard as he did
B) didnt perform on the court.

A scoring guard that logged 6300 assists in his career is definately a facilitator. "Shoot all the shots kobe" only happened when he had teammates that didnt perform. Period.

Kobe also has great respect for hakeem.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-thanks-hakeem-olajuwon-after-final-game-in-houston/

There is no issue between kobe and hakeem. Mutal respect. Both hyper competetive and driven and both winners.

Silky, I don't think there would be an issue between Kobe and Hakeem.  I agree they would have respect for each other.  I just think that it will be Kobe's team, not Hakeem's. 

We all know Kobe (and Buss) wanted the Lakers to be his team, not Shaq's team.  It's what led to Shaq eventually demanding to be traded.  Shaq didn't have the personality to accept that, hence the clash.  I think Hakeem will have the personality to accept being 1B to Kobe's 1A for the betterment of the team and chemistry.  But Kobe will be the leader.
It'd be quite a waste of Hakeem's talent if Kobe became the 1A of the squad. Hakeem was better by a fair margin when it came to buoying teams imo, and had more devastating offense against tough defenses.

Its hakeems team.

Kobe knows it. And is ok with it.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/blogs/triple-threat/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-Shaq-sidekick-video-191065851.html

Here admits to being robin to shaqs batman.

And we know kobe respects hakeem more than shaq. Ergo kobe is cool with being second to hakeem

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #551 on: August 25, 2019, 10:37:15 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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The only problem kobe ever had with other players was ones that
A) didnt practice or play as hard as he did
B) didnt perform on the court.

A scoring guard that logged 6300 assists in his career is definately a facilitator. "Shoot all the shots kobe" only happened when he had teammates that didnt perform. Period.

Kobe also has great respect for hakeem.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-thanks-hakeem-olajuwon-after-final-game-in-houston/

There is no issue between kobe and hakeem. Mutal respect. Both hyper competetive and driven and both winners.

Silky, I don't think there would be an issue between Kobe and Hakeem.  I agree they would have respect for each other.  I just think that it will be Kobe's team, not Hakeem's. 

We all know Kobe (and Buss) wanted the Lakers to be his team, not Shaq's team.  It's what led to Shaq eventually demanding to be traded.  Shaq didn't have the personality to accept that, hence the clash.  I think Hakeem will have the personality to accept being 1B to Kobe's 1A for the betterment of the team and chemistry.  But Kobe will be the leader.
It'd be quite a waste of Hakeem's talent if Kobe became the 1A of the squad. Hakeem was better by a fair margin when it came to buoying teams imo, and had more devastating offense against tough defenses.

Its hakeems team.

Kobe knows it. And is ok with it.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/blogs/triple-threat/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-Shaq-sidekick-video-191065851.html

Here admits to being robin to shaqs batman.

And we know kobe respects hakeem more than shaq. Ergo kobe is cool with being second to hakeem

It is one thing to sit on the sidelines and SAY one thing.

It is another thing to actually SUIT UP...LACE EM' UP...and PLAY TOGETHER.

The facts are THIS - Kobe Bean Bryant played a HUGE hand in running Shaquille O'Neal out of LA and effectively ending the Laker's run of Banners...stopped them short of catching BOS.

Thank Goodness. Thank you Kobe. (Boston Celtics Fan).

There is no way that Kobe Bean Bryant is being ANYONE's 1A...was Michael a "1A"? Nope.

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #552 on: August 25, 2019, 10:42:03 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Wew 26 hours left before the draft resumes. Can't wait!
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #553 on: August 25, 2019, 11:03:19 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Wew 26 hours left before the draft resumes. Can't wait!

Yeah..."SOME" of us DO have picks in tomorrow's round.

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #554 on: August 25, 2019, 11:20:24 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Wew 26 hours left before the draft resumes. Can't wait!

Yeah..."SOME" of us DO have picks in tomorrow's round.
lol I have two picks in tomorrow's round, but good joke
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA