Celtics/Hawks supposedly discussed deal for Smart

[Jvalin]

(click on image to enlarge)


It also works with Hunter instead of Okongwu.

And neither make sense if you’re actually trying to win.

We had the same convo a few days ago. If the C's were trying to win, we wouldn't have dumped Juancho's expiring way ahead of the deadline. Juancho sucks at basketball, but expiring contracts have value when trying to construct bigger deals. And no, we can't realistically use the TPE to match salary cause the luxury tax will explode through the roof. If history is any indication, Wyc is cheap. I don't expect him to pay a hefty tax for an underperforming team.

Long story short, we aren't trying to win.

[liam]

Why would Boston not do that?  Get a look at Reddish and basically replace Smart with Huerter.  Plus would have probably gotten Hill.  Would have had to cut 2 players, but given Fernando, Bol, and Dozier are all basically worthless to this season, it isn't like there aren't options (plus you could always cut Hill).  Boston probably pays the tax and would leave itself weak at PG, but that is clearly a trade that would have benefitted Boston long term.

You don't want to be trading the best player in the trade. As much as Smart frustrates me he's the best player in that trade. We need to be the ones sending out two or three lesser players for the best player in the deal.

Is he better than Huerter?  If so, only slightly.  Huerter is much younger though and a better fit long term because of his far superior shooting

Smart warts and all is better than Huerter. That could change in the future. I do like the shooting.

[Celtics2021]

(click on image to enlarge)


It also works with Hunter instead of Okongwu.

And neither make sense if you’re actually trying to win.

We had the same convo a few days ago. If the C's were trying to win, we wouldn't have dumped Juancho's expiring way ahead of the deadline. Juancho sucks at basketball, but expiring contracts have value when trying to construct bigger deals. And no, we can't realistically use the TPE to match salary cause the luxury tax will explode through the roof. If history is any indication, Wyc is cheap. I don't expect him to pay a hefty tax for an underperforming team.

Long story short, we aren't trying to win.

Trying to win is not mutually exclusive with having a budget.  A budget is a constraint, but it’s a constraint for most teams, so it’s only a small disadvantage.

[Jvalin]

(click on image to enlarge)


It also works with Hunter instead of Okongwu.

And neither make sense if you’re actually trying to win.

We had the same convo a few days ago. If the C's were trying to win, we wouldn't have dumped Juancho's expiring way ahead of the deadline. Juancho sucks at basketball, but expiring contracts have value when trying to construct bigger deals. And no, we can't realistically use the TPE to match salary cause the luxury tax will explode through the roof. If history is any indication, Wyc is cheap. I don't expect him to pay a hefty tax for an underperforming team.

Long story short, we aren't trying to win.

Trying to win is not mutually exclusive with having a budget.  A budget is a constraint, but it’s a constraint for most teams, so it’s only a small disadvantage.

When was the last time a team won the championship while trying to avoid the tax? Even the Bucks which are a small-market team went heavy into the tax last season.

[wdleehi]

(click on image to enlarge)


It also works with Hunter instead of Okongwu.

And neither make sense if you’re actually trying to win.

We had the same convo a few days ago. If the C's were trying to win, we wouldn't have dumped Juancho's expiring way ahead of the deadline. Juancho sucks at basketball, but expiring contracts have value when trying to construct bigger deals. And no, we can't realistically use the TPE to match salary cause the luxury tax will explode through the roof. If history is any indication, Wyc is cheap. I don't expect him to pay a hefty tax for an underperforming team.

Long story short, we aren't trying to win.

Trying to win is not mutually exclusive with having a budget.  A budget is a constraint, but it’s a constraint for most teams, so it’s only a small disadvantage.

When was the last time a team won a championship while trying to avoid the tax? Even the Bucks which are a small market team went heavy into the tax last season.

On the flip side, how  many teams went into  the tax before they were true contenders and became true contenders later?   

[Moranis]

Why would Boston not do that?  Get a look at Reddish and basically replace Smart with Huerter.  Plus would have probably gotten Hill.  Would have had to cut 2 players, but given Fernando, Bol, and Dozier are all basically worthless to this season, it isn't like there aren't options (plus you could always cut Hill).  Boston probably pays the tax and would leave itself weak at PG, but that is clearly a trade that would have benefitted Boston long term.

You don't want to be trading the best player in the trade. As much as Smart frustrates me he's the best player in that trade. We need to be the ones sending out two or three lesser players for the best player in the deal.

Is he better than Huerter?  If so, only slightly.  Huerter is much younger though and a better fit long term because of his far superior shooting

Smart warts and all is better than Huerter. That could change in the future. I do like the shooting.

Huerter is by far the Hawks most effective player when it comes to playing winning basketball.  Per 100 possessions he leads the team (among regulars) in both +- and on/off differential.  He is +5.8 per 100 possessions and his on/off differential is borderline elite at +11.7.  And I don't think it is a fluke because he has really made strides as a defender which has helped that a lot.  When he leaves the game, they lose the only consistent quality wing defender they have and need.  The C's would downgrade some at PG, but I think they'd have a much better offensive piece as Huerter is a much better shooter and plays much better offensively off the ball.  In a vacuum Smart is probably a better player, but I don't think it is significant, but on the C's, I think Huerter makes more sense, let alone added a talented young guy like Reddish.  If the Hawks really offered Huerter and Reddish for Smart, then Boston should have jumped at that.

[td450]

(click on image to enlarge)


It also works with Hunter instead of Okongwu.

And neither make sense if you’re actually trying to win.

I don't see letting Smart go without some sort of longer term playmaking solution. Still, Wright does provide competent backup level point/combo guard play, and Okongwu may end up being quite valuable. It isn't a bad trade.

[Moranis]

(click on image to enlarge)


It also works with Hunter instead of Okongwu.

And neither make sense if you’re actually trying to win.

We had the same convo a few days ago. If the C's were trying to win, we wouldn't have dumped Juancho's expiring way ahead of the deadline. Juancho sucks at basketball, but expiring contracts have value when trying to construct bigger deals. And no, we can't realistically use the TPE to match salary cause the luxury tax will explode through the roof. If history is any indication, Wyc is cheap. I don't expect him to pay a hefty tax for an underperforming team.

Long story short, we aren't trying to win.

Trying to win is not mutually exclusive with having a budget.  A budget is a constraint, but it’s a constraint for most teams, so it’s only a small disadvantage.

When was the last time a team won a championship while trying to avoid the tax? Even the Bucks which are a small market team went heavy into the tax last season.

On the flip side, how  many teams went into  the tax before they were true contenders and became true contenders later?

That is the correct question and the answer is obviously very few if any. 

Teams generally win championships when they have max level players in their prime and thus actually on max level contracts.  And you need multiple such players, thus it is almost impossible to win a championship without paying the tax simply because it is almost impossible to win the championship without at least 2 and often 3 max level players on your team.

[Jvalin]

(click on image to enlarge)


It also works with Hunter instead of Okongwu.

And neither make sense if you’re actually trying to win.

We had the same convo a few days ago. If the C's were trying to win, we wouldn't have dumped Juancho's expiring way ahead of the deadline. Juancho sucks at basketball, but expiring contracts have value when trying to construct bigger deals. And no, we can't realistically use the TPE to match salary cause the luxury tax will explode through the roof. If history is any indication, Wyc is cheap. I don't expect him to pay a hefty tax for an underperforming team.

Long story short, we aren't trying to win.

Trying to win is not mutually exclusive with having a budget.  A budget is a constraint, but it’s a constraint for most teams, so it’s only a small disadvantage.

When was the last time a team won a championship while trying to avoid the tax? Even the Bucks which are a small market team went heavy into the tax last season.

On the flip side, how  many teams went into  the tax before they were true contenders and became true contenders later?

We have two young all stars though. Most teams would envy our position. If we can pair them with a 3rd star, I fully believe we'll become legit contenders. We also have all our future firsts intact. Harden got traded for picks + fillers. We have the assets to get the job done.

In any case, my point was that the Celtics aren't trying to win. Whether we should try to win or not is another story.

[BruceBanner18]

Why would Boston not do that?  Get a look at Reddish and basically replace Smart with Huerter.  Plus would have probably gotten Hill.  Would have had to cut 2 players, but given Fernando, Bol, and Dozier are all basically worthless to this season, it isn't like there aren't options (plus you could always cut Hill).  Boston probably pays the tax and would leave itself weak at PG, but that is clearly a trade that would have benefitted Boston long term.

You don't want to be trading the best player in the trade. As much as Smart frustrates me he's the best player in that trade. We need to be the ones sending out two or three lesser players for the best player in the deal.

Is he better than Huerter?  If so, only slightly.  Huerter is much younger though and a better fit long term because of his far superior shooting

Smart warts and all is better than Huerter. That could change in the future. I do like the shooting.

Huerter is by far the Hawks most effective player when it comes to playing winning basketball.  Per 100 possessions he leads the team (among regulars) in both +- and on/off differential.  He is +5.8 per 100 possessions and his on/off differential is borderline elite at +11.7.  And I don't think it is a fluke because he has really made strides as a defender which has helped that a lot.  When he leaves the game, they lose the only consistent quality wing defender they have and need.  The C's would downgrade some at PG, but I think they'd have a much better offensive piece as Huerter is a much better shooter and plays much better offensively off the ball.  In a vacuum Smart is probably a better player, but I don't think it is significant, but on the C's, I think Huerter makes more sense, let alone added a talented young guy like Reddish.  If the Hawks really offered Huerter and Reddish for Smart, then Boston should have jumped at that.

I agree with this in theory but after watching Huerter more than a bit he doesn't have the gravity of a true sniper we need in a shooter. There's a difference between players who can make 3s and players you can't leave open period. We need the later.

I'd like to see something based on Smart for Duncan Robinson.

[Celtics2021]

(click on image to enlarge)


It also works with Hunter instead of Okongwu.

And neither make sense if you’re actually trying to win.

We had the same convo a few days ago. If the C's were trying to win, we wouldn't have dumped Juancho's expiring way ahead of the deadline. Juancho sucks at basketball, but expiring contracts have value when trying to construct bigger deals. And no, we can't realistically use the TPE to match salary cause the luxury tax will explode through the roof. If history is any indication, Wyc is cheap. I don't expect him to pay a hefty tax for an underperforming team.

Long story short, we aren't trying to win.

Trying to win is not mutually exclusive with having a budget.  A budget is a constraint, but it’s a constraint for most teams, so it’s only a small disadvantage.

When was the last time a team won the championship while trying to avoid the tax? Even the Bucks which are a small-market team went heavy into the tax last season.

2020 Lakers weren’t a tax team.  So two seasons ago.  5 of the last 8 conference finalist weren’t taxpayers.

[Sophomore]

Why would Boston not do that?  Get a look at Reddish and basically replace Smart with Huerter.  Plus would have probably gotten Hill.  Would have had to cut 2 players, but given Fernando, Bol, and Dozier are all basically worthless to this season, it isn't like there aren't options (plus you could always cut Hill).  Boston probably pays the tax and would leave itself weak at PG, but that is clearly a trade that would have benefitted Boston long term.

You don't want to be trading the best player in the trade. As much as Smart frustrates me he's the best player in that trade. We need to be the ones sending out two or three lesser players for the best player in the deal.

Smart is *easily* the best player in that trade. This is pretty close to a salary dump.

Smart is part of four-man and three-man rotations that are at the top of the league in plus-minus. He’s not a salary dump.

[Jvalin]

(click on image to enlarge)


It also works with Hunter instead of Okongwu.

And neither make sense if you’re actually trying to win.

We had the same convo a few days ago. If the C's were trying to win, we wouldn't have dumped Juancho's expiring way ahead of the deadline. Juancho sucks at basketball, but expiring contracts have value when trying to construct bigger deals. And no, we can't realistically use the TPE to match salary cause the luxury tax will explode through the roof. If history is any indication, Wyc is cheap. I don't expect him to pay a hefty tax for an underperforming team.

Long story short, we aren't trying to win.

Trying to win is not mutually exclusive with having a budget.  A budget is a constraint, but it’s a constraint for most teams, so it’s only a small disadvantage.

When was the last time a team won the championship while trying to avoid the tax? Even the Bucks which are a small-market team went heavy into the tax last season.

2020 Lakers weren’t a tax team.  So two seasons ago.  5 of the last 8 conference finalist weren’t taxpayers.

Were they actively trying to avoid the tax? The Lakers have cleared their books to sign LeBron via cap space. They couldn't realistically reload on salary immediately.

I'm happy to be corrected on the tax thing, but I still believe we aren't trying to win this season for the reasons I explained above.

[#1P4P]

Hawks: “Would you like to trade Smart for Reddish and Husrter.”

Celtics: “No, we prefer to keep Smart and the core of this team together.”

Headline: Celtics/Hawks discussed deal for Smart.

If Smart didn’t sign the extension, the speculation would have more credibility; but he signed a multi-year extension, he’s perfect for this switch-everything defense BS and Udoka have committed to, he’s shown signs of becoming a better PG, and he’s been a starter on 3 EC finalists with 3 different rosters.

The Celtics are trying to win, he’s 1/5 of the 2nd best 5-man lineup according to NETRTG, the improvement is coming internally with health, chemistry, coaching, schedule strength, and this team will remain intact until the off-season with the exception of Schroder and one of the young bench players.

[footey]

I placed a much higher value on Reddish than most NBA GMs seem to.  I thought he'd be a great development piece next to the two Jays, as he is tall and long, and could arguably play multiple positions.  Seems like GMs have really soured on his prospects, given how cheaply he came to the Knicks.

Huerter strikes me as a very streaky shooter who would struggle in our defensive schemes.