Author Topic: Monte Morris  (Read 1603 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Monte Morris
« on: January 30, 2022, 08:50:46 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1462
  • Tommy Points: 1074
  • B2B 2022 and 2023 Trade Deadline Guru
Would love to see the Cs trade for this guy. Balanced, bouncy point guard who plays under control and is entering his prime.

Here’s John Hollinger’s view on his value:

Quote
“A good passer at the point would obviously be a major upgrade on what we’ve seen this year,” Hollinger wrote. “He likely would come more cheaply both in terms of assets (perhaps two seconds or a swap of a first for a second) and money (he makes $9.5 million next year and just fits into the Thompson exception).”

Considering Murray’s impending return — he could be available if the Cs will pony up.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2022, 08:52:42 AM »

Online Celtics2021

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7145
  • Tommy Points: 979
He’s someone I’ve had my eye on, but seems like a better fit as an off-season acquisition.  The Nuggets will be looking to move some salary next off-season to limit payroll.  This year they’ve got a little tax room.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2022, 09:13:25 AM »

Offline Wretch

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 506
  • Tommy Points: 42
If the Cs wanted him or if Denver wanted to shed his salary they probably would have worked that out during the trade with SA. 

I just don't see the Cs making a salary adding move until the offseason.  The Schroder to the Cavs, Dallas or in a straight salary dump is the only move I see the Cs doing.

If the Cavs are offering a 2nd straight up for Schroder then the Cs are going to take it and run.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2022, 09:19:24 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6043
  • Tommy Points: 766
My sense on Morris is that he is a high-level backup point guard, but you are probably going to be disappointed if you expect more from him.

I don't think he's a long-term solution to our starting point guard issue. I'm not even sure how much of an upgrade he is over Smart's game management abilities.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2022, 09:37:12 AM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
My sense on Morris is that he is a high-level backup point guard, but you are probably going to be disappointed if you expect more from him.

I don't think he's a long-term solution to our starting point guard issue. I'm not even sure how much of an upgrade he is over Smart's game management abilities.
+1

He fixes the backup PG slot. Not the starting spot. He is a below average starting PG. It is just swapping one set of problems / limitations at starting PG for other problems / limitations.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2022, 12:00:36 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1462
  • Tommy Points: 1074
  • B2B 2022 and 2023 Trade Deadline Guru
My sense on Morris is that he is a high-level backup point guard, but you are probably going to be disappointed if you expect more from him.

I don't think he's a long-term solution to our starting point guard issue. I'm not even sure how much of an upgrade he is over Smart's game management abilities.
+1

He fixes the backup PG slot. Not the starting spot. He is a below average starting PG. It is just swapping one set of problems / limitations at starting PG for other problems / limitations.

No offense, fellas… but I think these are lazy blanket assumptions. Morris has been very good as a starter in Denver. And he doesn’t need to be a top 10 PG to be a significant upgrade in Boston, particularly considering no such PGs are available on the market, and we have a SG playing PG.


Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2022, 01:30:34 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17837
  • Tommy Points: 2661
  • bammokja
My sense on Morris is that he is a high-level backup point guard, but you are probably going to be disappointed if you expect more from him.

I don't think he's a long-term solution to our starting point guard issue. I'm not even sure how much of an upgrade he is over Smart's game management abilities.
+1

He fixes the backup PG slot. Not the starting spot. He is a below average starting PG. It is just swapping one set of problems / limitations at starting PG for other problems / limitations.

No offense, fellas… but I think these are lazy blanket assumptions. Morris has been very good as a starter in Denver. And he doesn’t need to be a top 10 PG to be a significant upgrade in Boston, particularly considering no such PGs are available on the market, and we have a SG playing PG.
i looked up morris' stats as a starter. he has started a total of 75 games out of 250 in his career, and 44 of those starts came this season (he started 44 of denver's 45 games).

this season, morris has averaged 30.1 minutes a game and his stats are:
12.5 points/g
4.2 assists/g
0.7 steals/g
3 rebounds/g
1.1 turn overs/g
35.9% 3 point
46.2% 2 point (8th among pg)
83% FT

this season, smart has averaged 33.6 minutes a game and his stats are:
11.3 points/g
5.4 assists/g
1.9 steals/g (2nd among pg)
4 rebounds/g
2.1 turn overs/g
30.3% 3 point
39.8% 2 point
79.2% FT

I see morris as topping smart's stats in scoring, turn overs, and 2/3 point shooting. But none of his stats stand out as being extraordinary in the nba.

I see smart as topping morris' stats in steals, rebounds, and assists.  FT is basically a toss up.

oh, one other point is size. smart = 6'3" & 220 lbs. morris = 6'2" & 183. so smart may be stronger and able to play against larger opponents better.

so, back to the point of whether morris as a starter is "very good" --- honestly, i am not seeing a "very good" pg from the stats. I see a pretty mundane player. a good FT%, but otherwise nothing really stands out in comparison to other point guards.

maybe there is something i am missing and is not in the stats. i would love to see it.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2022, 02:03:15 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1462
  • Tommy Points: 1074
  • B2B 2022 and 2023 Trade Deadline Guru
My sense on Morris is that he is a high-level backup point guard, but you are probably going to be disappointed if you expect more from him.

I don't think he's a long-term solution to our starting point guard issue. I'm not even sure how much of an upgrade he is over Smart's game management abilities.
+1

He fixes the backup PG slot. Not the starting spot. He is a below average starting PG. It is just swapping one set of problems / limitations at starting PG for other problems / limitations.

No offense, fellas… but I think these are lazy blanket assumptions. Morris has been very good as a starter in Denver. And he doesn’t need to be a top 10 PG to be a significant upgrade in Boston, particularly considering no such PGs are available on the market, and we have a SG playing PG.
i looked up morris' stats as a starter. he has started a total of 75 games out of 250 in his career, and 44 of those starts came this season (he started 44 of denver's 45 games).

this season, morris has averaged 30.1 minutes a game and his stats are:
12.5 points/g
4.2 assists/g
0.7 steals/g
3 rebounds/g
1.1 turn overs/g
35.9% 3 point
46.2% 2 point (8th among pg)
83% FT

this season, smart has averaged 33.6 minutes a game and his stats are:
11.3 points/g
5.4 assists/g
1.9 steals/g (2nd among pg)
4 rebounds/g
2.1 turn overs/g
30.3% 3 point
39.8% 2 point
79.2% FT

I see morris as topping smart's stats in scoring, turn overs, and 2/3 point shooting. But none of his stats stand out as being extraordinary in the nba.

I see smart as topping morris' stats in steals, rebounds, and assists.  FT is basically a toss up.

oh, one other point is size. smart = 6'3" & 220 lbs. morris = 6'2" & 183. so smart may be stronger and able to play against larger opponents better.

so, back to the point of whether morris as a starter is "very good" --- honestly, i am not seeing a "very good" pg from the stats. I see a pretty mundane player. a good FT%, but otherwise nothing really stands out in comparison to other point guards.

maybe there is something i am missing and is not in the stats. i would love to see it.

Never called him extraordinary. I see a guy who turns the ball over less, and shoots the ball better and more selectively.

What precludes them from playin together? If adding him bumped Smart to SG where he belongs, we could remove one wing stiff (Langford, probably) from the rotation.

By the way, not suggesting the Cs give up the farm for him. Morris should come at a relatively moderate cost.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2022, 03:18:07 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6043
  • Tommy Points: 766
My sense on Morris is that he is a high-level backup point guard, but you are probably going to be disappointed if you expect more from him.

I don't think he's a long-term solution to our starting point guard issue. I'm not even sure how much of an upgrade he is over Smart's game management abilities.
+1

He fixes the backup PG slot. Not the starting spot. He is a below average starting PG. It is just swapping one set of problems / limitations at starting PG for other problems / limitations.

No offense, fellas… but I think these are lazy blanket assumptions. Morris has been very good as a starter in Denver. And he doesn’t need to be a top 10 PG to be a significant upgrade in Boston, particularly considering no such PGs are available on the market, and we have a SG playing PG.

It's not lazy or a blanket assumption. I watch a lot of Denver because I like the Nuggets. I live in Iowa and watched him grow as 4-year player at Iowa State.

I like Morris and think he's a reliable rotation player. But this seems a lot like a "grass-is-greener" scenario to me. He's probably a slight upgrade as game manager, but not significant. He's also a significant downgrade in his defense and versatility. I also don't think he's as good of a shooter as his percentage. He has Michael Finley syndrome to me, where I'm not sure I can remember I ever saw him make a three, regardless of his 3-point stats.

I'm all for upgrading the point guard slot. I just don't think this is the guy that does it.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2022, 06:09:04 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
My sense on Morris is that he is a high-level backup point guard, but you are probably going to be disappointed if you expect more from him.

I don't think he's a long-term solution to our starting point guard issue. I'm not even sure how much of an upgrade he is over Smart's game management abilities.
+1

He fixes the backup PG slot. Not the starting spot. He is a below average starting PG. It is just swapping one set of problems / limitations at starting PG for other problems / limitations.

No offense, fellas… but I think these are lazy blanket assumptions. Morris has been very good as a starter in Denver. And he doesn’t need to be a top 10 PG to be a significant upgrade in Boston, particularly considering no such PGs are available on the market, and we have a SG playing PG.
i looked up morris' stats as a starter. he has started a total of 75 games out of 250 in his career, and 44 of those starts came this season (he started 44 of denver's 45 games).

this season, morris has averaged 30.1 minutes a game and his stats are:
12.5 points/g
4.2 assists/g
0.7 steals/g
3 rebounds/g
1.1 turn overs/g
35.9% 3 point
46.2% 2 point (8th among pg)
83% FT

this season, smart has averaged 33.6 minutes a game and his stats are:
11.3 points/g
5.4 assists/g
1.9 steals/g (2nd among pg)
4 rebounds/g
2.1 turn overs/g
30.3% 3 point
39.8% 2 point
79.2% FT

I see morris as topping smart's stats in scoring, turn overs, and 2/3 point shooting. But none of his stats stand out as being extraordinary in the nba.

I see smart as topping morris' stats in steals, rebounds, and assists.  FT is basically a toss up.

oh, one other point is size. smart = 6'3" & 220 lbs. morris = 6'2" & 183. so smart may be stronger and able to play against larger opponents better.

so, back to the point of whether morris as a starter is "very good" --- honestly, i am not seeing a "very good" pg from the stats. I see a pretty mundane player. a good FT%, but otherwise nothing really stands out in comparison to other point guards.

maybe there is something i am missing and is not in the stats. i would love to see it.


Yeah, that's where I am. Morris has been underwhelming as a starter in Denver. He has had a great opportunity there with Jamal Murray out injured. He has Jokic to help him. All he could ask for really ... and the results have been nothing special. He has been a liability in the role and looks best suited to a bench role.

I did have some hopes for him being able to step up into a starter's role when he first popped onto the scene 3-4 years ago but he has show little improvement since then + he has underwhelmed when given the opportunity to be a starter.

His skill-set offensively is too limited to be anything more than a below average offensive threat as a starter and his defense is average at best. He is a hole-plugger as a starter. Not a solution. A hole-plugger.

He has done a good job as a backup PG. I like him there.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2022, 06:20:09 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
My sense on Morris is that he is a high-level backup point guard, but you are probably going to be disappointed if you expect more from him.

I don't think he's a long-term solution to our starting point guard issue. I'm not even sure how much of an upgrade he is over Smart's game management abilities.


this is broadly the problem for the Celtics right now. the point guard position league-wide is deep. but it's deep with exactly this kind of player -- the good not great point.  The ballhandler who is a modest luxury as a backup, but not quite at the level you want as a starter.

getting a legit starting point guard who can do a bit of everything at a reasonably high level would be a huge upgrade for the Celtics. I just don't see how they're going to find that.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2022, 06:51:57 PM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6227
  • Tommy Points: 823
I hope folks will keep an open mind about Smart. I truly believe he’s not the problem. We could certainly use another scorer - ideally a 4 or a big 3 with a little ballhandling and a jump shot. That would fix a lot of our problems.

The rest would be putting an end to the point-forward experiment. Let Smart run the point more often, let the Js focus on their elite skills as finishers and do some secondary creation. More actions off the ball. That’s all they need to be a pretty good offense - more than enough when paired with an elite defense.

Smart’s passing and ability to read the game are underrated, and I think people have come to take his defense for granted. When he gets switched onto a PF or even a center he can do a credible job. Maybe there is another PG or two who can do that but it is really not normal and it is a heck of a luxury.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2022, 07:02:34 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3733
  • Tommy Points: 280
I hope folks will keep an open mind about Smart. I truly believe he’s not the problem. We could certainly use another scorer - ideally a 4 or a big 3 with a little ballhandling and a jump shot. That would fix a lot of our problems.

The rest would be putting an end to the point-forward experiment. Let Smart run the point more often, let the Js focus on their elite skills as finishers and do some secondary creation. More actions off the ball. That’s all they need to be a pretty good offense - more than enough when paired with an elite defense.

Smart’s passing and ability to read the game are underrated, and I think people have come to take his defense for granted. When he gets switched onto a PF or even a center he can do a credible job. Maybe there is another PG or two who can do that but it is really not normal and it is a heck of a luxury.

Agree with a lot of this. Including the fact that the Jays look good as 2/3's, and Smart at the 1.

And agree that we need a ballhandler...or someone who can play at the high post...

But the options are so limited because size with skill is basically one of the best things you can get in basketball and ends up being so expensive...Maybe Malcolm Brogdon, pushing the Jays to 3/4. I'd also love someone like Jerami Grant for the reasons you listed.

Re: Monte Morris
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2022, 07:10:46 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17837
  • Tommy Points: 2661
  • bammokja
My sense on Morris is that he is a high-level backup point guard, but you are probably going to be disappointed if you expect more from him.

I don't think he's a long-term solution to our starting point guard issue. I'm not even sure how much of an upgrade he is over Smart's game management abilities.
+1

He fixes the backup PG slot. Not the starting spot. He is a below average starting PG. It is just swapping one set of problems / limitations at starting PG for other problems / limitations.

No offense, fellas… but I think these are lazy blanket assumptions. Morris has been very good as a starter in Denver. And he doesn’t need to be a top 10 PG to be a significant upgrade in Boston, particularly considering no such PGs are available on the market, and we have a SG playing PG.
i looked up morris' stats as a starter. he has started a total of 75 games out of 250 in his career, and 44 of those starts came this season (he started 44 of denver's 45 games).

this season, morris has averaged 30.1 minutes a game and his stats are:
12.5 points/g
4.2 assists/g
0.7 steals/g
3 rebounds/g
1.1 turn overs/g
35.9% 3 point
46.2% 2 point (8th among pg)
83% FT

this season, smart has averaged 33.6 minutes a game and his stats are:
11.3 points/g
5.4 assists/g
1.9 steals/g (2nd among pg)
4 rebounds/g
2.1 turn overs/g
30.3% 3 point
39.8% 2 point
79.2% FT

I see morris as topping smart's stats in scoring, turn overs, and 2/3 point shooting. But none of his stats stand out as being extraordinary in the nba.

I see smart as topping morris' stats in steals, rebounds, and assists.  FT is basically a toss up.

oh, one other point is size. smart = 6'3" & 220 lbs. morris = 6'2" & 183. so smart may be stronger and able to play against larger opponents better.

so, back to the point of whether morris as a starter is "very good" --- honestly, i am not seeing a "very good" pg from the stats. I see a pretty mundane player. a good FT%, but otherwise nothing really stands out in comparison to other point guards.

maybe there is something i am missing and is not in the stats. i would love to see it.

Never called him extraordinary. I see a guy who turns the ball over less, and shoots the ball better and more selectively.

What precludes them from playin together? If adding him bumped Smart to SG where he belongs, we could remove one wing stiff (Langford, probably) from the rotation.

By the way, not suggesting the Cs give up the farm for him. Morris should come at a relatively moderate cost.
i looked over the posts once more. i did not say you had called him "extraordinary" and you are correct he is not.

you did, however, call him "very good" and i disagreed with that assertion. pretty simple.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva