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Lebron all time lists
« on: January 26, 2020, 10:21:21 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Lebron now sits at 3rd all time with 33655 after passing Kobe last night. He is under 3300 from Malone and like 4700 from Kareem.  Even if he slows down his scoring rate he will likely catch Kareem 3ish seasons from now (last year he scored just 1505, the lowest of his career given his games played). He is already the all time leader in the playoffs.

When (and if) he catches Kareem for points he will likely be 3rd all time in assists and won't be far behind Kidd for 2nd all time if he hasn't already passed him (he won't catch Stockton).  He will also be in the 35-40  range for rebounds and somewhere around 7 or 8 for steals (with a good shot at finishing in the top 5).
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Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2020, 10:36:21 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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What is kind of crazy about this stuff is of they don’t change the rules (or amoumt of 3 point shots) or shorten the season these all time records are going to become a mockery of previous generations. With players having access to better doctors and nutrition and training the ones that want to put in the work can have careers so much longer than people like bird and Mchale who say their careers Peter out in their early thirties based on injuries that would have been handled and treated completely differently than today. 20 years from now is trae young the all time leading scorer in nba history?

Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2020, 11:08:31 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I honestly think Lebron will be the last person to have a realistic shot at catching Malone, let alone Kareem.  Even if another genetic freak comes along, having a prime of 20 ish years where the guy plays 75+ games every single season has to be considered so minuscule that I just can't see it happening again.  Even if that guy remains relatively healthy with load management, rest, etc. I just don't think a true legit scorer like that will get the requisite games played.  I mean look at someone like Carmelo.  He has just over 26,000 points.  He is still nearly 11000 points from Malone and you are talking about one of the greatest scorers of his generation. Durant has 23000, Harden has just over 20,000.  Last year Harden had 2800 points playing in 78 games.  To even catch Malone he would need nearly 6 more seasons exactly like that (and that isn't happening).  Though I suppose if Harden plays till he is 40 he might catch Malone.

Even if they don't shorten the season, I just don't see anyone else really getting the games played at the level of play needed to get there.  Then again genetic freaks come along every so often, so who knows maybe someone gets there some day.  Though I do think Lebron is going to blow way past Kareem so getting to him may be impossible, but maybe someone else catches Kareem.
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Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2020, 11:27:36 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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I honestly think Lebron will be the last person to have a realistic shot at catching Malone, let alone Kareem.  Even if another genetic freak comes along, having a prime of 20 ish years where the guy plays 75+ games every single season has to be considered so minuscule that I just can't see it happening again.  Even if that guy remains relatively healthy with load management, rest, etc. I just don't think a true legit scorer like that will get the requisite games played.  I mean look at someone like Carmelo.  He has just over 26,000 points.  He is still nearly 11000 points from Malone and you are talking about one of the greatest scorers of his generation. Durant has 23000, Harden has just over 20,000.  Last year Harden had 2800 points playing in 78 games.  To even catch Malone he would need nearly 6 more seasons exactly like that (and that isn't happening).  Though I suppose if Harden plays till he is 40 he might catch Malone.

Even if they don't shorten the season, I just don't see anyone else really getting the games played at the level of play needed to get there.  Then again genetic freaks come along every so often, so who knows maybe someone gets there some day.  Though I do think Lebron is going to blow way past Kareem so getting to him may be impossible, but maybe someone else catches Kareem.

This is such a bizarre response to my point. Do you realize that trae young is averaging more points per game right now than any season in Carmelo’s career? When he just turned 21? Obviously melo master of the long 2 is not an example of the moder nba and what we are discussing. I mean he was literally railroaded from the game for over a season for not being a modern fit. Lol

Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2020, 01:50:27 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Just some random thoughts -

LeBron James will EASILY go down in sports history as one of the greatest PLAYERS period - ranking up there with the Bradys....the Jordans.....the Gretzkies......

This is not to even MENTION his Social Justice courage...his "I Promise" Academy......his business acumen.

He is leaving a legacy WAY BEYOND basketball. That will be the most memorable thing about him.

As his (and Durant's) time winds down who will carry the torch? Who will speak up - when needed?

When their time is completed who will build schools for children?

When LeBron is finished I am certain that - along the way - he will THANK the owners and coaches that have sown into his career....he will also thank David Stern....he will thank the great players he has been fortunate enough to play with.

He has NOT been great on his own....he has truly dictated his own career in such a way to cross paths with OTHER great players - Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love....and now? Anthony Davis.

This is not to even mention the very good team during his FIRST run in CLE - that made it to the Finals in 2007 against the Spurs.

Imagine the greats from the 60s-70s-80s-90s....."IF" they played under the rules of TODAY - just from the standpoint of switching teams...

"Hey Magic - Larry here. My time is winding down in BOS...wanna team up? I come there OR you come to BOS?"

"Hey Wilt - Bill here. I need a Center to play with...we can do this either in LA or in BOS. I can play PF....."

Not hating on LeBron...he has made the MOST of his career, truly. But his GREATNESS is for THIS TIME only.

But BOY - it IS great...and it's not only on the COURT.

Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2020, 02:57:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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:police:
I honestly think Lebron will be the last person to have a realistic shot at catching Malone, let alone Kareem.  Even if another genetic freak comes along, having a prime of 20 ish years where the guy plays 75+ games every single season has to be considered so minuscule that I just can't see it happening again.  Even if that guy remains relatively healthy with load management, rest, etc. I just don't think a true legit scorer like that will get the requisite games played.  I mean look at someone like Carmelo.  He has just over 26,000 points.  He is still nearly 11000 points from Malone and you are talking about one of the greatest scorers of his generation. Durant has 23000, Harden has just over 20,000.  Last year Harden had 2800 points playing in 78 games.  To even catch Malone he would need nearly 6 more seasons exactly like that (and that isn't happening).  Though I suppose if Harden plays till he is 40 he might catch Malone.

Even if they don't shorten the season, I just don't see anyone else really getting the games played at the level of play needed to get there.  Then again genetic freaks come along every so often, so who knows maybe someone gets there some day.  Though I do think Lebron is going to blow way past Kareem so getting to him may be impossible, but maybe someone else catches Kareem.

This is such a bizarre response to my point. Do you realize that trae young is averaging more points per game right now than any season in Carmelo’s career? When he just turned 21? Obviously melo master of the long 2 is not an example of the moder nba and what we are discussing. I mean he was literally railroaded from the game for over a season for not being a modern fit. Lol
Young is in year 2 and has already missed 5 games.  Even if he doesn't miss any more games and continues his average he would score 2241 points.  He would need 15 more seasons of that to catch Malone (well like 14+ since he has his rookie year points).  That is what I'm getting at.  The sheer volume of points with that many games is astonishing
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Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2020, 04:03:45 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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What is kind of crazy about this stuff is of they don’t change the rules (or amoumt of 3 point shots) or shorten the season these all time records are going to become a mockery of previous generations. With players having access to better doctors and nutrition and training the ones that want to put in the work can have careers so much longer than people like bird and Mchale who say their careers Peter out in their early thirties based on injuries that would have been handled and treated completely differently than today. 20 years from now is trae young the all time leading scorer in nba history?
Not sure why you're bringing up Bird and McHale.  If a modern day player had their injuries, the player would still miss a lot of games in recovery.  Furthermore, players today are a lot more likely to be held out for lesser injuries than in the past.  To get past Kareem and Malone in points, a player will still need a very long, very healthy career.  In his 20 seasons, Kareem only played less that 74 games twice.  In 17 of 19 seasons, Malone played 80 or more games.  Lebron's durability has been amazing.  I think it is very unlikely that Trae Young will be durable enough to challenge those records.  Also with all the money players make nowadays, I think stars are more likely to choose to retire earlier. 

Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2020, 10:10:08 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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What is kind of crazy about this stuff is of they don’t change the rules (or amoumt of 3 point shots) or shorten the season these all time records are going to become a mockery of previous generations. With players having access to better doctors and nutrition and training the ones that want to put in the work can have careers so much longer than people like bird and Mchale who say their careers Peter out in their early thirties based on injuries that would have been handled and treated completely differently than today. 20 years from now is trae young the all time leading scorer in nba history?
Not sure why you're bringing up Bird and McHale.  If a modern day player had their injuries, the player would still miss a lot of games in recovery.  Furthermore, players today are a lot more likely to be held out for lesser injuries than in the past.  To get past Kareem and Malone in points, a player will still need a very long, very healthy career.  In his 20 seasons, Kareem only played less that 74 games twice.  In 17 of 19 seasons, Malone played 80 or more games.  Lebron's durability has been amazing.  I think it is very unlikely that Trae Young will be durable enough to challenge those records.  Also with all the money players make nowadays, I think stars are more likely to choose to retire earlier.

Pretty shocked you can’t understand the point. Kevin played on a broken foot that completely changed his career. He would not have played on that foot in today’s nba and most likely would have had a very different career. It is probably the same situation with bird where he would have had a different career and counting stats with modern medicine (to say nothing of flying first class and staying in 5 star hotels with personal trainers. Moving forward with these amenities there certainly is a chance for a genetic freak like Lebron to have a longer career than he may have 30 years ago. Obviously Kareem had a really long career under those conditions, but maybe today he plays till he is 50. Someone like Giannis (along with Lebron) has a much greater chance of playing into his 40’s then if he was dealing with the Celtics medical team of the late 80’s and flying coach. Because of that and the threes a lot of our record books will be rewritten. This is pretty straight forward stuff and I am unclear how you can’t understand it.

Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2020, 10:14:01 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I honestly think Lebron will be the last person to have a realistic shot at catching Malone, let alone Kareem.  Even if another genetic freak comes along, having a prime of 20 ish years where the guy plays 75+ games every single season has to be considered so minuscule that I just can't see it happening again.  Even if that guy remains relatively healthy with load management, rest, etc. I just don't think a true legit scorer like that will get the requisite games played.  I mean look at someone like Carmelo.  He has just over 26,000 points.  He is still nearly 11000 points from Malone and you are talking about one of the greatest scorers of his generation. Durant has 23000, Harden has just over 20,000.  Last year Harden had 2800 points playing in 78 games.  To even catch Malone he would need nearly 6 more seasons exactly like that (and that isn't happening).  Though I suppose if Harden plays till he is 40 he might catch Malone.

Even if they don't shorten the season, I just don't see anyone else really getting the games played at the level of play needed to get there.  Then again genetic freaks come along every so often, so who knows maybe someone gets there some day.  Though I do think Lebron is going to blow way past Kareem so getting to him may be impossible, but maybe someone else catches Kareem.

This is such a bizarre response to my point. Do you realize that trae young is averaging more points per game right now than any season in Carmelo’s career? When he just turned 21? Obviously melo master of the long 2 is not an example of the moder nba and what we are discussing. I mean he was literally railroaded from the game for over a season for not being a modern fit. Lol
Young is in year 2 and has already missed 5 games.  Even if he doesn't miss any more games and continues his average he would score 2241 points.  He would need 15 more seasons of that to catch Malone (well like 14+ since he has his rookie year points).  That is what I'm getting at.  The sheer volume of points with that many games is astonishing

Ahh but why would a 21 year old player just continue his average. To your point, I don’t think anyone thinks young is a better scorer than Carmelo was in his prime, but he is already averaging more points than melo ever did. Whether it is young or someone else the career stats for nba will get destroyed by lesser players unless the trajectory changes or the season is shortened

Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2020, 05:42:17 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I honestly think Lebron will be the last person to have a realistic shot at catching Malone, let alone Kareem.  Even if another genetic freak comes along, having a prime of 20 ish years where the guy plays 75+ games every single season has to be considered so minuscule that I just can't see it happening again.  Even if that guy remains relatively healthy with load management, rest, etc. I just don't think a true legit scorer like that will get the requisite games played.  I mean look at someone like Carmelo.  He has just over 26,000 points.  He is still nearly 11000 points from Malone and you are talking about one of the greatest scorers of his generation. Durant has 23000, Harden has just over 20,000.  Last year Harden had 2800 points playing in 78 games.  To even catch Malone he would need nearly 6 more seasons exactly like that (and that isn't happening).  Though I suppose if Harden plays till he is 40 he might catch Malone.

Even if they don't shorten the season, I just don't see anyone else really getting the games played at the level of play needed to get there.  Then again genetic freaks come along every so often, so who knows maybe someone gets there some day.  Though I do think Lebron is going to blow way past Kareem so getting to him may be impossible, but maybe someone else catches Kareem.
Doncic? I know he doesn't strike people as a genetic freak, but imo his game can age really well with his skill and size for a guard.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2020, 07:06:45 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Does anyone think he will catch Baylor or West in lost finals?

                                     Finals     Finals               Finals              Winning
                                      lost        played             won                 Percentage
1.    Jerry West      8          9                 1                .111
2.    Elgin Baylor      7          7                  -                .000
3.    LeBron James      6           9                 3                .333

He has passed up Wilt in this regard.

Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2020, 07:31:04 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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peoples mindset sometimes change , what really matters in life etc ,  he is now at that crossroads , where retirement is imminent.  Maybe at 30 he thinks , i ll play to 50 .  But old age creeps up and reality sets in .   I think he ll try and play to 40 ish .  He looks really winded fast at times already .   I think he can be all time high scorer , but i think he ll need to play longer than 39 to get there .  He can summon old Bron energy for one special play on offense or defense . But he seems to suffer for it and take the next two plays or more off.

Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2020, 08:42:56 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I honestly think Lebron will be the last person to have a realistic shot at catching Malone, let alone Kareem.  Even if another genetic freak comes along, having a prime of 20 ish years where the guy plays 75+ games every single season has to be considered so minuscule that I just can't see it happening again.  Even if that guy remains relatively healthy with load management, rest, etc. I just don't think a true legit scorer like that will get the requisite games played.  I mean look at someone like Carmelo.  He has just over 26,000 points.  He is still nearly 11000 points from Malone and you are talking about one of the greatest scorers of his generation. Durant has 23000, Harden has just over 20,000.  Last year Harden had 2800 points playing in 78 games.  To even catch Malone he would need nearly 6 more seasons exactly like that (and that isn't happening).  Though I suppose if Harden plays till he is 40 he might catch Malone.

Even if they don't shorten the season, I just don't see anyone else really getting the games played at the level of play needed to get there.  Then again genetic freaks come along every so often, so who knows maybe someone gets there some day.  Though I do think Lebron is going to blow way past Kareem so getting to him may be impossible, but maybe someone else catches Kareem.

This is such a bizarre response to my point. Do you realize that trae young is averaging more points per game right now than any season in Carmelo’s career? When he just turned 21? Obviously melo master of the long 2 is not an example of the moder nba and what we are discussing. I mean he was literally railroaded from the game for over a season for not being a modern fit. Lol
Young is in year 2 and has already missed 5 games.  Even if he doesn't miss any more games and continues his average he would score 2241 points.  He would need 15 more seasons of that to catch Malone (well like 14+ since he has his rookie year points).  That is what I'm getting at.  The sheer volume of points with that many games is astonishing

Ahh but why would a 21 year old player just continue his average. To your point, I don’t think anyone thinks young is a better scorer than Carmelo was in his prime, but he is already averaging more points than melo ever did. Whether it is young or someone else the career stats for nba will get destroyed by lesser players unless the trajectory changes or the season is shortened
Young may average more than that, but he still has to get 15+ seasons of 75+ games with that average.  The shear volume of games played with that high level of scoring is incredibly difficult.  Even to get to 30,000 points, let alone catching Malone or Kareem.  Harden needs 5 more seasons after this one like his last one (and the current one) to even get close to Malone.  Harden isn't going to average 36 ppg in 75+ games for 5 more seasons.  Now I get that Harden started a bit more slowly than some guys, but he has also missed very few games once he went to Houston (31 total including this year).
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Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2020, 08:58:18 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I honestly think Lebron will be the last person to have a realistic shot at catching Malone, let alone Kareem.  Even if another genetic freak comes along, having a prime of 20 ish years where the guy plays 75+ games every single season has to be considered so minuscule that I just can't see it happening again.  Even if that guy remains relatively healthy with load management, rest, etc. I just don't think a true legit scorer like that will get the requisite games played.  I mean look at someone like Carmelo.  He has just over 26,000 points.  He is still nearly 11000 points from Malone and you are talking about one of the greatest scorers of his generation. Durant has 23000, Harden has just over 20,000.  Last year Harden had 2800 points playing in 78 games.  To even catch Malone he would need nearly 6 more seasons exactly like that (and that isn't happening).  Though I suppose if Harden plays till he is 40 he might catch Malone.

Even if they don't shorten the season, I just don't see anyone else really getting the games played at the level of play needed to get there.  Then again genetic freaks come along every so often, so who knows maybe someone gets there some day.  Though I do think Lebron is going to blow way past Kareem so getting to him may be impossible, but maybe someone else catches Kareem.
Doncic? I know he doesn't strike people as a genetic freak, but imo his game can age really well with his skill and size for a guard.
Maybe, but he missed 10 games last year and has already missed 4 this year. 

If you told me a current player would get into that range, I'd probably pick Towns as before this season he missed just 5 games and came into the league scoring well (18.3 ppg as a rookie and 22.6 ppg average in his short 4.5 season career).  The injury this season would give me more hesitation on that, but I do think Towns can age very well given his excellent 3 point range and improved passing he has shown this year.

Giannis would also have to be considered as he is a year older than Towns and has around a great year's of scoring more points than Towns.  I just expect him to be more banged up (like 70ish games a year) and don't know if he will still be a great scoring threat once he loses some of the athleticism once he starts to age.   

Giannis and Towns are by far the 2 youngest players in the top 100 of active players (I think Oladipo is next youngest).  Young and Doncic have come into the league like crazy scoring machines, but they are also in their 2nd year.  A lot can happen, I'd need to see at least 4 or 5 years of this level of play and more importantly health before I'd even consider them getting anywhere near becoming an all time great scorer.  Young in particularly seems like he will be prone to injuries (similar to someone like Iverson or Curry if you want a more modern guy) just given his frame and style of play.   
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Re: Lebron all time lists
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2020, 11:07:37 AM »

Offline action781

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Giannis, Trae, and Doncic are all candidates to hit 30,000 points.  I think Trae is the least likely because his entire game will need to change after age 33 or so when he can no longer blow by guys off the dribble.  Although maybe he could enjoy a Jamal-Crawford-like stage in his mid 30's.

I bet nobody expected rookie or 2nd year Paul Pierce to finish with over 26,000.  And only 3 seasons in his career he was a top 5 point scorer.  If Giannis and Doncic have the same health/longevity as Pierce then I would expect them to surpass 30,000.  By how much I don't know.
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