Doc Rivers

[bostonsportsfan]

Great stick the knife in the throat lineup of Sam Cassell Paul Pierce Pj Brown Big Baby and James Posey down by 5 at the start of the 4th quarter what a joke  Powe is great in the post Hamilton and sheed ends up with 5 fouls Hamilton Prince and McDyess all have 4 go at them never mind with the stupid jump shots Eddie House is diving for loose balls giving his blood sweat and tears for you in game 7 and whats his reward He gets game 4 to sit on the bench pair that up with now knowing i gotta put up with mason 1 more night im frusterated !!!!!!!!!!

[expobear]

A good coach doesn't call out his players in public.

Phil Jackson has called out specific players in public before.


"(By the way, you should never do this -- change your style to fit the opponent -- if you are the favored team. It gives the underdog a mental edge right from the start, as they know the favorite is scared of them; this is how the Mavs got ousted by the Warriors last year.)"

It also might have had something to do with the fact that the Warriors coach had coached in the Mavs' system for years and knew the players inside and out.  The Warriors coach also groomed the Mav's coach and also knew exactly how to defend the franchise player in Dirk. It also might have had something to do with the fact that Avery Johnson inexplicably changed the starting line up to match up with the Warriors better.

On top of all that, how have the Celtics changed their style to fit the Pistons? You might also want to make the distinction that the Mavericks were a #1 seed ousted by a #8 seed in the first round while the Celtics are tied at 2 with home court advantage in the conference finals.

"Also, pointing out publicly that Leon had missed defensive assignments is a bush-league move. "

While this may be true, ignoring its truth is short-sighted as well. Powe struggles in team defense and has hurt the team in some of his stints on the floor.


Rivers is an idiot; he's been given the best team in the Eastern Conference by a country mile and has nearly blown it twice. I doubt the Pistons will be so forgiving, so this should be interesting.

Not that I'm a big Doc supporter, but you don't get points for "nearly" blowing it twice. The Celtics are in the Eastern Conference Finals, where they are supposed to be. This means, Doc has also brought the Celtics "almost" to a Finals. It goes both ways.



[/i]

<<<Phil Jackson has called out specific players in public before.>>>


Any examples?  Calling out Kobe or Shaq is one thing but calling out Powe, a second year role player is another.  I doubt Powe even knows why he's sitting on the bench these days except perhaps what he can deduce from reading River's quotes in the paper. There are better ways to handle a young player, especially a player who Rivers has decided on benching after calling him out in public.


<<<It also might have had something to do with the fact that the Warriors coach had coached in the Mavs' system for years and knew the players inside and out.  The Warriors coach also groomed the Mav's coach and also knew exactly how to defend the franchise player in Dirk. It also might have had something to do with the fact that Avery Johnson inexplicably changed the starting line up to match up with the Warriors better.

On top of all that, how have the Celtics changed their style to fit the Pistons? You might also want to make the distinction that the Mavericks were a #1 seed ousted by a #8 seed in the first round while the Celtics are tied at 2 with home court advantage in the conference finals.>>>


Regardless of what Nelson knew about the Mavericks, Johnson screwed up big time in trying to change his team's style of play to match up with the Warriors.  I think Rivers tried to outthink himself in the first two playoff series by changing his rotation to defend against weaker opponents. There is no way the Celtics should have gone to 7 games against either opponent.  As far as changing their style against the Pistons, Powe and House are seeing substantially less minutes than they were during the regular season. As the author of the post I reprinted said, it should be an interesting series for the Celtics despite having the best talent in the NBA.


<<<While this may be true, ignoring its truth is short-sighted as well. Powe struggles in team defense and has hurt the team in some of his stints on the floor.>>>


The thing I don't understand is how Powe can hurt his team by being on the floor for a minute or two. Hell, the Pistons scored 94 last night, so there must have been a few guys who missed defensive rotations. All I'm asking is give Powe the time he was getting during the regular season and some of the early playoff games and if he f**ks up after a few games of playing 10-12 minutes, then go to your second or third option.  But I don't think Powe has ever gotten a chance to redeem himself after making a mistake, whenever that may have been.  


<<<Not that I'm a big Doc supporter, but you don't get points for "nearly" blowing it twice. The Celtics are in the Eastern Conference Finals, where they are supposed to be. This means, Doc has also brought the Celtics "almost" to a Finals. It goes both ways.>>>


If the Celtics win the NBA championship, Rivers will get much of the credit and deservedly so.  I do think he's making this road much tougher and has definitely affected the psyche of players like Powe and House. We'll see how this plays out over the next few weeks and next year too.

[Roy Hobbs]

Enough with the four man bench units, too.  82games.com did a study a couple of years ago, showing -- predictably -- that teams that played four or five bench players on the court at a time universally got outscored by their opponents during such time periods.

There is no reason not to have at least two starters on the floor at all times.  It's just completely unacceptable.  That goes not just for last night, but as a general rule in the playoffs.

You know how many minutes Detroit played last night with more than three bench guys on the floor at one time?  Zero.

[Yakmanev]

Great stick the knife in the throat lineup of Sam Cassell Paul Pierce Pj Brown Big Baby and James Posey down by 5 at the start of the 4th quarter what a joke  Powe is great in the post Hamilton and sheed ends up with 5 fouls Hamilton Prince and McDyess all have 4 go at them never mind with the stupid jump shots Eddie House is diving for loose balls giving his blood sweat and tears for you in game 7 and whats his reward He gets game 4 to sit on the bench pair that up with now knowing i gotta put up with mason 1 more night im frusterated !!!!!!!!!!

This may be one of the longest sentences I've ever seen.

Otherwise though you're right!

[nickagneta]

Enough with the four man bench units, too.  82games.com did a study a couple of years ago, showing -- predictably -- that teams that played four or five bench players on the court at a time universally got outscored by their opponents during such time periods.

There is no reason not to have at least two starters on the floor at all times.  It's just completely unacceptable.  That goes not just for last night, but as a general rule in the playoffs.

You know how many minutes Detroit played last night with more than three bench guys on the floor at one time?  Zero.

Of all the things that Doc does that drives me crazy, this is by far the one that I hate the most about Doc's coaching. Why any of the GPA have to have more than one off at a time unless they are in foul trouble is puzzling. That and the fact that way to many times the second and fourth quarters start with four bench players on the court. I'm a huge believer that you must win the first 3 minutes and the last 3 minutes of every quarter. I believe it is the easiest way to win games.

Too, many times Doc runs his starters 11 minutes in the first and third and then goes to a mostly bench five for the end of the first, beginning of the second, end of the third, and beginning of the fourth. I think he just kills us during these parts of games if the bench isn't playiong well, and, unfortunately, this bench has been wildly inconsistent.

Doc needs to start rotating his starters out much earlier. In each half he should give KG a 5 minute rest at the 8:00 mark, put him in rotate Allen out for 5 minutes, rotate Allen in and then Pierce out for 5 minutes, then rotate Pierce in so the three are playing together for the last 5 minutes of the half.

Then with the other players do whatever seems right, I could care less other than to have Rondo and Perk on the floor the first 5 minutes and last 5 minutes of the each half. So, so many coaches in the NBA do something close to this. Why can't Doc?

[Roy Hobbs]

Good question, Nick.  We have a fairly talented bench.  However, it is *not* better than other teams' starters, and time and time again, that's proven to us in these playoffs.
 

[Scintan]

1.)
Consistently using Davis and his seemingly non-existent jumping ability against tall/long front lines like Cleveland's and Detroit's is just asking for trouble, and is generating the results that should be expected.

2.)
Ray Allen is struggling to hit the broad side of a barn with his shot right now.  Rivers continues to keep him in with Rajon "No jumper" Rondo and Sam "Can't find my shot either" Cassell rather than trying lineups with a shooter (House) or with size (Posey in, Allen at point against Billups, a point guard who is big as opposed to lightning quick).  In what should be a surprise to nobody, this "stay the course" is not working.

3.)
Perkins brings value far beyond his numbers, especially in a series like this one.  Unfortunately, correctly or not, the officials are whistling him for moving picks and the like on offense.  Rivers hasn't made the adjustments to limit Perkins' exposure up top on the offensive side.

Rivers makes a lot of mistakes in almost every game, and I haven't gone into all of the screw ups last night by a long shot.  However, let me also point out that the 'big 3' didn't play up to their billing last night either, and that there was plenty of blame to go around.

[wdleehi]

1.)
Consistently using Davis and his seemingly non-existent jumping ability against tall/long front lines like Cleveland's and Detroit's is just asking for trouble, and is generating the results that should be expected.

2.)
Ray Allen is struggling to hit the broad side of a barn with his shot right now.  Rivers continues to keep him in with Rajon "No jumper" Rondo and Sam "Can't find my shot either" Cassell rather than trying lineups with a shooter (House) or with size (Posey in, Allen at point against Billups, a point guard who is big as opposed to lightning quick).  In what should be a surprise to nobody, this "stay the course" is not working.

3.)
Perkins brings value far beyond his numbers, especially in a series like this one.  Unfortunately, correctly or not, the officials are whistling him for moving picks and the like on offense.  Rivers hasn't made the adjustments to limit Perkins' exposure up top on the offensive side.

Rivers makes a lot of mistakes in almost every game, and I haven't gone into all of the screw ups last night by a long shot.  However, let me also point out that the 'big 3' didn't play up to their billing last night either, and that there was plenty of blame to go around.

The offensive fouls on the screens have annoyed me. 

And it is not just on the big man setting them (KG got called for it last night to).   About half the time, the guy they set the screen for doesn't wait for them to set it.  He takes off in that direction before it is set, thus creating a bad situation.

Then, you also have the case where the screen keeps moving. 

And finally, the case where the officials are used to calling them on Perkins, they are quick to whistle. 

[nickagneta]

1.)
Consistently using Davis and his seemingly non-existent jumping ability against tall/long front lines like Cleveland's and Detroit's is just asking for trouble, and is generating the results that should be expected.

2.)
Ray Allen is struggling to hit the broad side of a barn with his shot right now.  Rivers continues to keep him in with Rajon "No jumper" Rondo and Sam "Can't find my shot either" Cassell rather than trying lineups with a shooter (House) or with size (Posey in, Allen at point against Billups, a point guard who is big as opposed to lightning quick).  In what should be a surprise to nobody, this "stay the course" is not working.

3.)
Perkins brings value far beyond his numbers, especially in a series like this one.  Unfortunately, correctly or not, the officials are whistling him for moving picks and the like on offense.  Rivers hasn't made the adjustments to limit Perkins' exposure up top on the offensive side.

Rivers makes a lot of mistakes in almost every game, and I haven't gone into all of the screw ups last night by a long shot.  However, let me also point out that the 'big 3' didn't play up to their billing last night either, and that there was plenty of blame to go around.

The offensive fouls on the screens have annoyed me. 

And it is not just on the big man setting them (KG got called for it last night to).   About half the time, the guy they set the screen for doesn't wait for them to set it.  He takes off in that direction before it is set, thus creating a bad situation.

Then, you also have the case where the screen keeps moving. 

And finally, the case where the officials are used to calling them on Perkins, they are quick to whistle. 

The moving pick they called on Rondo last night where he dribbled towards Ray Allen and basically handed him the ball while continuing on his way was by far the most ridiculous of the offensive fouls called on screens in the game, both for and against the C's. Allen's defender wasn't even touched and Rondo wasn't even trying to set a screen. Just absurd!

And wd hit it right on the nose. Many of the screen fouls are the player's with the balls fault as they often are starting before the pick is even established.

[Scintan]

The moving pick they called on Rondo last night where he dribbled towards Ray Allen and basically handed him the ball while continuing on his way was by far the most ridiculous of the offensive fouls called on screens in the game, both for and against the C's. Allen's defender wasn't even touched and Rondo wasn't even trying to set a screen. Just absurd!

And wd hit it right on the nose. Many of the screen fouls are the player's with the balls fault as they often are starting before the pick is even established.

See, I'm seeing something a little different in the playoffs.  Yes, the ballhandlers are a major part of the problem, but something else we have seen is a different interpretation of what "moving" means from game to game.  In some games, it's taken a clear arm or body motion, while in others even a slight lean (or no movement at all) has been enough to draw the whistle.

What Rivers needs to do is keep Perkins down low until he sees how the screens are being called.  Let him start with KG up high because, oddly enough, the team is far better off if KG picks up the early cheap foul than if Perkins does.

[LarBrd33]

Meh the coach can get some flack for the loss, but the players are the ones beating themselves in these games. 

Playoff Record:

Boston Celtics 10.... Boston Celtic Demons ... 8

Team has to stop making itself lose.

[wdleehi]

The moving pick they called on Rondo last night where he dribbled towards Ray Allen and basically handed him the ball while continuing on his way was by far the most ridiculous of the offensive fouls called on screens in the game, both for and against the C's. Allen's defender wasn't even touched and Rondo wasn't even trying to set a screen. Just absurd!

And wd hit it right on the nose. Many of the screen fouls are the player's with the balls fault as they often are starting before the pick is even established.

See, I'm seeing something a little different in the playoffs.  Yes, the ballhandlers are a major part of the problem, but something else we have seen is a different interpretation of what "moving" means from game to game.  In some games, it's taken a clear arm or body motion, while in others even a slight lean (or no movement at all) has been enough to draw the whistle.

What Rivers needs to do is keep Perkins down low until he sees how the screens are being called.  Let him start with KG up high because, oddly enough, the team is far better off if KG picks up the early cheap foul than if Perkins does.

Or if a guy just falls down. 


This works into the officials expect to call illegal screen on Perkins.

No different then the officials expect to call shooting foul on the behalf of Wade.

[nickagneta]

The moving pick they called on Rondo last night where he dribbled towards Ray Allen and basically handed him the ball while continuing on his way was by far the most ridiculous of the offensive fouls called on screens in the game, both for and against the C's. Allen's defender wasn't even touched and Rondo wasn't even trying to set a screen. Just absurd!

And wd hit it right on the nose. Many of the screen fouls are the player's with the balls fault as they often are starting before the pick is even established.

See, I'm seeing something a little different in the playoffs.  Yes, the ballhandlers are a major part of the problem, but something else we have seen is a different interpretation of what "moving" means from game to game.  In some games, it's taken a clear arm or body motion, while in others even a slight lean (or no movement at all) has been enough to draw the whistle.

What Rivers needs to do is keep Perkins down low until he sees how the screens are being called.  Let him start with KG up high because, oddly enough, the team is far better off if KG picks up the early cheap foul than if Perkins does.

Or if a guy just falls down. 


This works into the officials expect to call illegal screen on Perkins.

No different then the officials expect to call shooting foul on the behalf of Wade.

Not to mention the fact that the calls on offensive fouls on screens, charging/blocking, and what's allowed under the basket is so inconsistent from officiating crew to officiating crew that the players can never get an accurate read as to what will and will not be called. It is the most ludicrious thing in officiating in all of professional American sports.

WWE refs who are supposedly knocked unconcious are more consistent in their calls and probably more respected nationwide by sports fans than are NBA refs.

[wdleehi]

The moving pick they called on Rondo last night where he dribbled towards Ray Allen and basically handed him the ball while continuing on his way was by far the most ridiculous of the offensive fouls called on screens in the game, both for and against the C's. Allen's defender wasn't even touched and Rondo wasn't even trying to set a screen. Just absurd!

And wd hit it right on the nose. Many of the screen fouls are the player's with the balls fault as they often are starting before the pick is even established.

See, I'm seeing something a little different in the playoffs.  Yes, the ballhandlers are a major part of the problem, but something else we have seen is a different interpretation of what "moving" means from game to game.  In some games, it's taken a clear arm or body motion, while in others even a slight lean (or no movement at all) has been enough to draw the whistle.

What Rivers needs to do is keep Perkins down low until he sees how the screens are being called.  Let him start with KG up high because, oddly enough, the team is far better off if KG picks up the early cheap foul than if Perkins does.

Or if a guy just falls down. 


This works into the officials expect to call illegal screen on Perkins.

No different then the officials expect to call shooting foul on the behalf of Wade.

Not to mention the fact that the calls on offensive fouls on screens, charging/blocking, and what's allowed under the basket is so inconsistent from officiating crew to officiating crew that the players can never get an accurate read as to what will and will not be called. It is the most ludicrious thing in officiating in all of professional American sports.

WWE refs who are supposedly knocked unconcious are more consistent in their calls and probably more respected nationwide by sports fans than are NBA refs.

That's because WWE refs call what they see.  They are just easily 'distracted'.   


NBA officials like to call what they expect to see. 

[nickagneta]

The moving pick they called on Rondo last night where he dribbled towards Ray Allen and basically handed him the ball while continuing on his way was by far the most ridiculous of the offensive fouls called on screens in the game, both for and against the C's. Allen's defender wasn't even touched and Rondo wasn't even trying to set a screen. Just absurd!

And wd hit it right on the nose. Many of the screen fouls are the player's with the balls fault as they often are starting before the pick is even established.

See, I'm seeing something a little different in the playoffs.  Yes, the ballhandlers are a major part of the problem, but something else we have seen is a different interpretation of what "moving" means from game to game.  In some games, it's taken a clear arm or body motion, while in others even a slight lean (or no movement at all) has been enough to draw the whistle.

What Rivers needs to do is keep Perkins down low until he sees how the screens are being called.  Let him start with KG up high because, oddly enough, the team is far better off if KG picks up the early cheap foul than if Perkins does.

Or if a guy just falls down. 


This works into the officials expect to call illegal screen on Perkins.

No different then the officials expect to call shooting foul on the behalf of Wade.

Not to mention the fact that the calls on offensive fouls on screens, charging/blocking, and what's allowed under the basket is so inconsistent from officiating crew to officiating crew that the players can never get an accurate read as to what will and will not be called. It is the most ludicrious thing in officiating in all of professional American sports.

WWE refs who are supposedly knocked unconcious are more consistent in their calls and probably more respected nationwide by sports fans than are NBA refs.

That's because WWE refs call what they see.  They are just easily 'distracted'.   


NBA officials like to call what they expect to see. 

TP4U,  couldn't have said it better myself!