Doc Rivers

[soap07]

A good coach doesn't call out his players in public.

Phil Jackson has called out specific players in public before.


"(By the way, you should never do this -- change your style to fit the opponent -- if you are the favored team. It gives the underdog a mental edge right from the start, as they know the favorite is scared of them; this is how the Mavs got ousted by the Warriors last year.)"

It also might have had something to do with the fact that the Warriors coach had coached in the Mavs' system for years and knew the players inside and out.  The Warriors coach also groomed the Mav's coach and also knew exactly how to defend the franchise player in Dirk. It also might have had something to do with the fact that Avery Johnson inexplicably changed the starting line up to match up with the Warriors better.

On top of all that, how have the Celtics changed their style to fit the Pistons? You might also want to make the distinction that the Mavericks were a #1 seed ousted by a #8 seed in the first round while the Celtics are tied at 2 with home court advantage in the conference finals.

"Also, pointing out publicly that Leon had missed defensive assignments is a bush-league move. "

While this may be true, ignoring its truth is short-sighted as well. Powe struggles in team defense and has hurt the team in some of his stints on the floor.


Rivers is an idiot; he's been given the best team in the Eastern Conference by a country mile and has nearly blown it twice. I doubt the Pistons will be so forgiving, so this should be interesting.

Not that I'm a big Doc supporter, but you don't get points for "nearly" blowing it twice. The Celtics are in the Eastern Conference Finals, where they are supposed to be. This means, Doc has also brought the Celtics "almost" to a Finals. It goes both ways.



[/i]

[nickagneta]

We can all question all the reasons why this guy should have been playing and why that guy shouldn't have, but does anyone here really believe that with the way the starters played tonight that Eddie House, Leon Powe, or Tony Allen was going to be the difference in turning this game into a win?

I seriously doubt that. There have been bad games this postseason for Doc but there have been at least two and maybe three, yeah three, playoff losses that are directly attributable to the players and the players alone.

This was one of them!

As for the day off thing, that's tough to question. We don't no just how tired or beat up these guys are after having played 14 games in 28 days. Doc does. I'll leave it to Doc to gauge when to push these guys and when not to. If they lose the series Doc screwed up. If they win, he probably didn't. At least in regards to what happens on the off days.

Found this on another chatroom and it wholeheartedly articulates my sentiments:


Bill Simmons (The Sports Guy) has been complaining since the playoffs began that Doc Rivers has been inexplicably ignoring the rotations and bench guys that had made the Celtics so good in the first place, instead trying out untested combinations apparently in response to the other team's personnel. (By the way, you should never do this -- change your style to fit the opponent -- if you are the favored team. It gives the underdog a mental edge right from the start, as they know the favorite is scared of them; this is how the Mavs got ousted by the Warriors last year.)

Looks like the lack of Leon is a perfect example of this. Don't turn away from the guys who got you this far just because they make a mistake here or there; ride them all the way to the finish. Also, pointing out publicly that Leon had missed defensive assignments is a bush-league move. A good coach doesn't call out his players in public.

Rivers is an idiot; he's been given the best team in the Eastern Conference by a country mile and has nearly blown it twice. I doubt the Pistons will be so forgiving, so this should be interesting.

I agree expobear. TP for you. Leon's mistakes are small compared to so many others. Davis gave up wide open lay ups 4 times tonight. But we know Davis will get to stay in. Leon has been a stud all season. He always proves everyone wrong. His confidence is being killed by his own coach, but hopefully he will get to prove himself again before this season is over.

Can either of you guys please explain to me how Doc being an idiot for going away from Powe effected the outcome of last night's game. Powe is a decent little player, but he certainly wasn't going to turn the Celtics around last night and suddenly win this game all by himself.

Bash Doc all you want about his substitutions, some is quite valid criticism, but they had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the team shooting 31.8% or shooting 11.1% from the 3 or the 14 TOs or the only 12 Asts or the fact that RA, RR, PP, and KG had a cumulative +/- of -62!

[jimmyt]

Doc Rivers continues to amaze me (not in a good way). I will never understand why he goes numerous games without playing people like Powe and House. When we clearly needed a boost off the bench, Doc failed to put in energy guys to counter the Pistons' energy.

Not only does Powe add aggression off the bench, I feel like his style of basketball matches up perfectly to Maxiell's. Of course Doc wouldnt put him in and decided to go with slow and dumb Glen Davis all game.

Also, House could have played some minutes last night too when it counted. Sam Cassell is still impressing nobody and its also not a secret that Rondo has a hard time doing anything constuctive on the court when hes away from home.

I didnt see Doc do anything last night to try to get us back in the game. Yea we shot terribly and I'm not blaming Doc for the loss last night because it was a group (lack of) effort, but at the same time Doc should recognize that we need a spark and put Powe out there who deserves more time than Glen Davis.

[evrock]

I've been wondering too why Doc won't try a Rondo/Casell backcourt at the same time in crunch time.  Let Sam play the 2.  Rondo won't be looking over his shoulder.  Sam guards Chauncey, Rondo runs around with Rip and harrasses him (it's not like Ray has been keeping up).  Stick Posey on McDyess, and leave Paul on Prince, and KG on Sheed. 

[kozlodoev]

this team needs antoine walker off the bench

Not really, we have enough people who can brick the ball with the same flair.

[Yakmanev]

It is only appropriate that my 666th post go toward bashing Doc.

I stand by the sentiment that win or lose the championship we need a new coach regardless.

Now I need another post rather quickly this scares me, the lights are flickering albeit probably 'cause of the storm.

[wdleehi]

So far, the Celtics have taken 3 games off in Atlanta, 2 in Cleveland and 1 in Detroit


I see. Every time the Celtics lose, they must take the night off.

So, did the Celtics show up on the road in Atlanta?   Against a sub 500 team.  Or do you really think the Celtics are that bad of a team to lose three to Atlanta?


They played one average game in cleveland.  The other two, no defense. 


And last night in Detroit.



These games are not just losses.  The Celtics played no defense.  That's effort.  That's energy. 

[Roy Hobbs]

I agree with Nick that he wasn't the reason we lost at all, but Sam is 2 for his last 25, while averaging 1.3 assists in games he plays in.  Veteran leadership or not, he has to go.

As for BBD, he's the exact same player now as he was in the regular season: wildly inconsistent, with more bad games than good ones.  Powe was our most consistent bench performer all year, and yet he's buried on the bench.  Look at their respective game logs for both the season and the post-season, and you'll see that Powe has been the better performer, and yet he can't see double-digit minutes.

These are the things I talk about when I say that Doc doesn't put us in the best position to succeed.  We were in all likelihood losing last night's game regardless of bench scoring, but the decision to play two under-performing players going forward could be costly.

There's an idiom that's something along the lines of "ride the horse that got you here".  Doc has two horses he's completely neglecting.

[CoachCowens]

I agree with Nick that he wasn't the reason we lost at all, but Sam is 2 for his last 25, while averaging 1.3 assists in games he plays in.  Veteran leadership or not, he has to go.

As for BBD, he's the exact same player now as he was in the regular season: wildly inconsistent, with more bad games than good ones.  Powe was our most consistent bench performer all year, and yet he's buried on the bench.  Look at their respective game logs for both the season and the post-season, and you'll see that Powe has been the better performer, and yet he can't see double-digit minutes.

These are the things I talk about when I say that Doc doesn't put us in the best position to succeed.  We were in all likelihood losing last night's game regardless of bench scoring, but the decision to play two under-performing players going forward could be costly.

There's an idiom that's something along the lines of "ride the horse that got you here".  Doc has two horses he's completely neglecting.

And a horse named Ray Allen that looks like he needs to be put out to pasture. Sorry, Couldn't resist.

[ram]

Exactly what does, "Didn't show up" mean?

If you don't think the players are busting their butts, you need to stick to video games.

Some of you act like this is a game of horseshoes. Detroit is a championship basketball team who play great defense. The NBA has the greatest players in the world and it is EXTREMELY difficult to win every game.

When I read crap like, "They didn't show up" or "Bench ____" and some other crap on here, I can only conclude that you never competed at anything because you don't realize how difficult it is to produce when going up against great players. You don't just "show up" and get it done. It's very hard. If it wasn't everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great.

The greatest players of all time have lost playoff series and have looked bad doing it. Even the greatest winner ever, Bill Russell, and his great team lost 4-1 to the Sixers in 1967 and lost by 24 in the series ending Game 5. I guess Bill and the boys "Didn't show up."  How many playoff games/series did Jordan/Pippen lose before they got a ring?

This will be a dogfight the whole way that could go either way.  The difference between winning and losing in professional sports is a sliver.

[wdleehi]

Exactly what does, "Didn't show up" mean?

If you don't think the players are busting their butts, you need to stick to video games.

Some of you act like this is a game of horseshoes. Detroit is a championship basketball team who play great defense. The NBA has the greatest players in the world and it is EXTREMELY difficult to win every game.

When I read crap like, "They didn't show up" or "Bench ____" and some other crap on here, I can only conclude that you never competed at anything because you don't realize how difficult it is to produce when going up against great players. You don't just "show up" and get it done. It's very hard. If it wasn't everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great.

The greatest players of all time have lost playoff series and have looked bad doing it. Even the greatest winner ever, Bill Russell, and his great team lost 4-1 to the Sixers in 1967 and lost by 24 in the series ending Game 5. I guess Bill and the boys "Didn't show up."  How many playoff games/series did Jordan/Pippen lose before they got a ring?

This will be a dogfight the whole way that could go either way.  The difference between winning and losing in professional sports is a sliver.

If the Celtics 'show up', there is no way the Pistons as a team shoot over 50%. 

They were there.  But they didn't play close to their ability. 



Last night wasn't a dog fight.  It was a one sided head basing that looked closer then it was because of FTs. 

[WedmanIsMyHero]

I couldn't agree more.  This is the criticism John Hollinger has leveled at Doc.  This is the criticism Bill Simmons has leveled at Doc.  This is the thing the WEEI guys asked Doc about last week during his weekly interview on Friday.

I agree with Nick that he wasn't the reason we lost at all, but Sam is 2 for his last 25, while averaging 1.3 assists in games he plays in.  Veteran leadership or not, he has to go.

As for BBD, he's the exact same player now as he was in the regular season: wildly inconsistent, with more bad games than good ones.  Powe was our most consistent bench performer all year, and yet he's buried on the bench.  Look at their respective game logs for both the season and the post-season, and you'll see that Powe has been the better performer, and yet he can't see double-digit minutes.

These are the things I talk about when I say that Doc doesn't put us in the best position to succeed.  We were in all likelihood losing last night's game regardless of bench scoring, but the decision to play two under-performing players going forward could be costly.

There's an idiom that's something along the lines of "ride the horse that got you here".  Doc has two horses he's completely neglecting.

[wdleehi]

Exactly what does, "Didn't show up" mean?

If you don't think the players are busting their butts, you need to stick to video games.

Some of you act like this is a game of horseshoes. Detroit is a championship basketball team who play great defense. The NBA has the greatest players in the world and it is EXTREMELY difficult to win every game.

When I read crap like, "They didn't show up" or "Bench ____" and some other crap on here, I can only conclude that you never competed at anything because you don't realize how difficult it is to produce when going up against great players. You don't just "show up" and get it done. It's very hard. If it wasn't everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great.

The greatest players of all time have lost playoff series and have looked bad doing it. Even the greatest winner ever, Bill Russell, and his great team lost 4-1 to the Sixers in 1967 and lost by 24 in the series ending Game 5. I guess Bill and the boys "Didn't show up."  How many playoff games/series did Jordan/Pippen lose before they got a ring?

This will be a dogfight the whole way that could go either way.  The difference between winning and losing in professional sports is a sliver.

And on side note, there is no reason to be bashing other posters because they have a different opinion.


And until you can prove you have NBA experience, then you haven't competed in what we are talking about either. 

[ram]

You proved my point.

[wdleehi]

You proved my point.

Really? 


Must have missed that. 



But I guess that means you believe that last night the Celtics put forth a real good effort.  They are just that bad of a team to shoot 30% while allowing 50%.