NFL 2022 Season

[Goldstar88]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

What’s odd to me is that everyone knew that Tua playing after the hit on Sunday was suspect. So why isn’t the NFLPA intervening proactively?

They opened their investigation before the second hit last night. So they literally did.

I guess by intervening proactively I mean doing something that would prevent Tua from taking the field.   If there is every indication that the Sunday hit had “no go” symptoms, what influence could the player’s association have on whether or not he could play?

I think the investigation was the extent of their powers. They can’t force a player to sit from what I understand. So this was the most proactive action they could take. It’s possible this is inaccurate but I would be genuinely surprised.

They could have contacted him or his agent, providing their own doctor on Monday.

Or, Tua or his agent could have consulted a doctor.

Nobody did anything, presumably because he wasn’t showing any signs of being concussed.

he was tested at halftime Sunday by both the team and the independent doctor. No concussion symptoms.  He was tested Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. No concussion symptoms.  There really is nothing else they could do except not play him and if he showed no symptoms, why wouldn't they play him?  They had a game to win and a star QB they had no reason not to play.

And as I said earlier, that hit yesterday was nasty.  It would have concussed almost any QB.

How about a CT scan following Sundays game to… idk, see if he had a concussion after his neck snapped back and head hit the turf. 

That would have seemed like the responsible thing to do if they were in fact looking out for their player or wanted to know.

[Neurotic Guy]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

What’s odd to me is that everyone knew that Tua playing after the hit on Sunday was suspect. So why isn’t the NFLPA intervening proactively?

They opened their investigation before the second hit last night. So they literally did.

I guess by intervening proactively I mean doing something that would prevent Tua from taking the field.   If there is every indication that the Sunday hit had “no go” symptoms, what influence could the player’s association have on whether or not he could play?

I think the investigation was the extent of their powers. They can’t force a player to sit from what I understand. So this was the most proactive action they could take. It’s possible this is inaccurate but I would be genuinely surprised.

They could have contacted him or his agent, providing their own doctor on Monday.

Or, Tua or his agent could have consulted a doctor.

Nobody did anything, presumably because he wasn’t showing any signs of being concussed.

he was tested at halftime Sunday by both the team and the independent doctor. No concussion symptoms.  He was tested Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. No concussion symptoms.  There really is nothing else they could do except not play him and if he showed no symptoms, why wouldn't they play him?  They had a game to win and a star QB they had no reason not to play.

And as I said earlier, that hit yesterday was nasty.  It would have concussed almost any QB.

How about a CT scan following Sundays game to… idk, see if he had a concussion after his neck snapped back and head hit the turf. 

That would have seemed like the responsible thing to do if they were in fact looking out for their player or wanted to know.

Would a CT scan provide definitive evidence of a concussion?  I thought not.

[Moranis]

NFLPA president JC Tretter delivers impassioned message to NFL over Tua Tagovailoa injury: 'We are all outraged'

We are all outraged by what we have seen the last several days and scared for the safety of one of our brothers. What everyone saw both Sunday and last night were “no-go” symptoms within our concussion protocols. The protocols exist to protect the player and that is why we initiated an investigation.

Our job as the NFLPA is to take every possible measure to get the facts and hold those responsible accountable. We need to figure out how and why the decisions were made last Sunday to allow a player with a “no-go” symptom back on the field.

Until we have an objective and validated method of diagnosing brain injury, we have to do everything possible, including amending the protocols, to further reduce the potential of human error. A failure in medical judgment is a failure of the protocols when it comes to the well being of our players.

We have come a long way over the past 15 years but the last week proves how far we have left to go.

What’s odd to me is that everyone knew that Tua playing after the hit on Sunday was suspect. So why isn’t the NFLPA intervening proactively?

They opened their investigation before the second hit last night. So they literally did.

I guess by intervening proactively I mean doing something that would prevent Tua from taking the field.   If there is every indication that the Sunday hit had “no go” symptoms, what influence could the player’s association have on whether or not he could play?

I think the investigation was the extent of their powers. They can’t force a player to sit from what I understand. So this was the most proactive action they could take. It’s possible this is inaccurate but I would be genuinely surprised.

They could have contacted him or his agent, providing their own doctor on Monday.

Or, Tua or his agent could have consulted a doctor.

Nobody did anything, presumably because he wasn’t showing any signs of being concussed.

he was tested at halftime Sunday by both the team and the independent doctor. No concussion symptoms.  He was tested Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. No concussion symptoms.  There really is nothing else they could do except not play him and if he showed no symptoms, why wouldn't they play him?  They had a game to win and a star QB they had no reason not to play.

And as I said earlier, that hit yesterday was nasty.  It would have concussed almost any QB.

How about a CT scan following Sundays game to… idk, see if he had a concussion after his neck snapped back and head hit the turf. 

That would have seemed like the responsible thing to do if they were in fact looking out for their player or wanted to know.

Would a CT scan provide definitive evidence of a concussion?  I thought not.

that appears to be the case.  Which is why concussions are hard to diagnose.

https://www.cognitivefxusa.com/blog/do-ct-scans-show-concussions-and-pcs

[Phantom255x]

I'm bored so I'll just do it:

Bengals > Dolphins 27-15 (nailed it!  )

Vikings > Saints 24-17
Lions > Seahawks 28-17
Steelers > Jets 24-13
Giants > Bears 21-13
Colts > Titans 24-21
Chargers > Texans 31-14
Falcons > Browns 23-17 (upset)
Cowboys > Commanders 27-17
Eagles > Jaguars 27-21
Ravens > Bills 31-27 (upset)
Cardinals > Panthers 24-14
Raiders > Broncos 28-24
Packers > Patriots 27-14 
Chiefs > Bucs 28-20
Rams > Niners 23-20

The Jags are looking really good and I think Jags - Eagles will be a sneaky great game. Bills-Ravens will also be electric. Both could come down to the final possession

[Goldstar88]

MIAMI -- The unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant involved in clearing Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa during Sunday's game against the Buffalo Bills has been fired after it was found he made "several mistakes" in his evaluation, a league source told ESPN.

[Roy H.]

MIAMI -- The unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant involved in clearing Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa during Sunday's game against the Buffalo Bills has been fired after it was found he made "several mistakes" in his evaluation, a league source told ESPN.

There’s your evidence.

I assume the team doctors are out the door next?  Under the protocol they make the initial determination, right?

[celticsclay]

Anyone want to acknowledge they put a little too much trust in the independent doctors here? This is literally everything I have been saying for three pages….

[celticsclay]

I can't imagine the players union working to remove a player that wanted to play.
I'm sure they would investigate proto-calls.
But only after the fact would they assert that the league should protect the player from themself.

We will just have to what the investigation turns up or if there are changes to protocols. At this point it probably just comes down to whether you trust nfl doctors or their “independent” doctors. I don’t and think there if a lot of evidence why we shouldn’t from history. But doesn’t seem like I will change anyones opinion on this.

I think you are correct.
I just think there is too much incentive for the player to play.

Really?  I see it the opposite in the current era.

If you sit your QB for a game, you may lose.

If you play your QB when he’s got concussion symptoms, you still may lose.  You also could further injure your $100+ million asset, subject yourself to many more millions in liability, get your coaching staff fired, and lose draft picks.

So there was incentive to play him yea?

[celticsclay]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

Well they were Nick

[Goldstar88]

MIAMI -- The unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant involved in clearing Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa during Sunday's game against the Buffalo Bills has been fired after it was found he made "several mistakes" in his evaluation, a league source told ESPN.

There’s your evidence.

I assume the team doctors are out the door next?  Under the protocol they make the initial determination, right?

That’s my understanding.

[Roy H.]

MIAMI -- The unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant involved in clearing Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa during Sunday's game against the Buffalo Bills has been fired after it was found he made "several mistakes" in his evaluation, a league source told ESPN.

There’s your evidence.

I assume the team doctors are out the door next?  Under the protocol they make the initial determination, right?

That’s my understanding.

I retract my statement to some extent:

The source said the NFL Players Association exercised its right to dismiss the consultant. The NFLPA and the league each have the right to fire a UNC without agreement from the other party.

So, the NFLPA unilaterally fired him, which is their right.

[nickagneta]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

Well they were Nick

So it came down to incompetency, which is one of the scenarios I said.

Still would love to know what the mistakes were as Tua passed concussion tests all week up to the game.

[Roy H.]

I can't imagine the players union working to remove a player that wanted to play.
I'm sure they would investigate proto-calls.
But only after the fact would they assert that the league should protect the player from themself.

We will just have to what the investigation turns up or if there are changes to protocols. At this point it probably just comes down to whether you trust nfl doctors or their “independent” doctors. I don’t and think there if a lot of evidence why we shouldn’t from history. But doesn’t seem like I will change anyones opinion on this.

I think you are correct.
I just think there is too much incentive for the player to play.

Really?  I see it the opposite in the current era.

If you sit your QB for a game, you may lose.

If you play your QB when he’s got concussion symptoms, you still may lose.  You also could further injure your $100+ million asset, subject yourself to many more millions in liability, get your coaching staff fired, and lose draft picks.

So there was incentive to play him yea?

Sure.  But there’s way more of a disincentive to play him if he’s symptomatic.

[Goldstar88]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

Well they were Nick

So it came down to incompetency, which is one of the scenarios I said.

Still would love to know what the mistakes were as Tua passed concussion tests all week up to the game.

You also said that you thought that it was Tua’s fault and suspected that he was lying to them and should have told the doctors what he was suffering from. Kind of an unfair thing to say considering it was pretty clear that his brain was likely scrambled after that play during Sunday’s game. It’s the doctors job to assess the patient and determine whether they are OK or not, which they clearly didn’t do.

[nickagneta]

FWIW

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/29/demaurice-smith-vows-to-pursue-every-legal-option-regarding-the-handling-of-tua-tagovailoa-on-sunday/

The biggest concern emerging from Thursday night’s game between the Dolphins and Bengals is whether Miami quarterback Tua Tagovailoa should have been playing.

As explained by Michael Smith on the Amazon postgame show, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith texted to Andrew Whitworth (a former NFLPA player rep) and Richard Sherman (a member of the NFLPA executive committee) the following message: “We insisted on these rules to avoid exactly this scenario. We will pursue every legal option, including making referrals against the doctors to licensing agencies and the team that is obligated to keep our players safe.”

I just wanted to bump this because it seems like some posters think it is only some fans that think this was an issue…

And?

Unless Smith has information fans don't, he's doing the same thing fans are, playing doctor based on a video. Who cares who he sent out messages to.

An independent neurologist determined no concussion and the Miami doctors determined it an upper back and neck injury.

Has anyone here ever had an upper back or neck injury or seen someone that has? I have. They can wreak havoc on the ability to stand and walk, much like Tua showed. They can also cause you to lose your breath, which won't help matters when trying to stand up or walk.

Now, Tua could be lying to all the doctors. But he wouldn't be able to hide some of the symptoms a neurologist would see in trying to determine if someone has a concussion.

So if Tua isn't lying to the medical people, then it comes down to either several doctors not being competent enough to diagnose a concussion, one independent doc and then a whole medical staff of the Dolphins, or all of them breaking their sworn oaths and lying about it so Tua can play.

It's possible Tua was playing with a concussion, but if he was, I'm thinking it's Tua's fault for lying to doctors about what he was suffering from. I really don't see multiple doctors being incompetent and/or dishonest here.

Well they were Nick

So it came down to incompetency, which is one of the scenarios I said.

Still would love to know what the mistakes were as Tua passed concussion tests all week up to the game.

You also said that you thought that it was Tua’s fault and suspected that he was lying to them and should have told the doctors what he was suffering from. Kind of an unfair thing to say considering it was pretty clear that his brain was likely scrambled after that play during Sunday’s game. It’s the doctors job to assess the patient and determine whether they are OK or not, which they clearly didn’t do.

Another scenario and one easy to see since doctors normally aren't incompetent and players definitely will lie to downplay an injury to get back on the field.