Patriots 2022 Season

[Moranis]

Again Mo, out of your element.

Yeah, Mo's takes on basketball, while tending to be contrarian, at least show so semblance of competent knowledge on basketball. His football takes are lacking and outrageously bad.

He proved that last year and is continuing to do it again this year.

What exactly are you referring to?

Edit: I know we had some discussions about how I thought the Pats were playing way to conservatively on offense and should have let Jones air it out more.  I still maintain that given just how Jones has looked verse how Lawrence has looked thus far this year.  You need to let your young QB's make mistakes.  That is also why I said that Bills game was a mistake, it not only embarrassed the division rival, it embarrassed your own QB and pass catchers.  Not sure what else you might be referring to.

So your advice to Bill Belichick is that he should let Mac throw more, despite the crazy amount of success that he had with a restrained Tom Brady early in his career. You should call the Patriots 800 number so they can patch you into Bill.

as a rookie, absolutely.  I believe that develops a young player faster.  You let them make mistakes, you let them grow from them, you don't play such a conservative offense that you end up with a 3 throw game, etc.  That is how basically any of the all time greats that play immediately as rookies have grown, and that goes back awhile i.e. guys like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino (though he didn't start immediately, he played most of his rookie year).  Now some players are fine sitting on the sidelines for awhile those guys like Brady, Rodgers, even Mahomes, don't play much as rookies and take the time to learn the system and grow, but then they can come in and end up winning Super Bowls within their first season or two of playing.  But I absolutely believe if you are going to play your rookie QB from the start, you need to let them sling it all over the field and learn the game that way.  Use that rookie year to get the kinks out, so you can come out of the gate like gang busters in your 2nd year (like Lawrence is doing this year).  You know be the opposite of Chicago and what they are doing to Fields. 

[gouki88]

The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

Pretty big stretch here with the psychoanalysis from behind your computer screen.

Sure, that is what we all do.  9-4 after that game with solid stats from the QB for the first 12 games (8-4).  2-6 since with bad stats from the QB.

Just stop digging this hole, for once

[Moranis]

The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

Pretty big stretch here with the psychoanalysis from behind your computer screen.

Sure, that is what we all do.  9-4 after that game with solid stats from the QB for the first 12 games (8-4).  2-6 since with bad stats from the QB.

Just stop digging this hole, for once

What explanation do you have?  Was Mac just playing above his head for the first 12 games last year and he has merely come back down to earth?  Was it just match-ups at the end of the year last year and this year is Patricia and not McDaniels?   What is your explanation for why Mac and Patriots were winning 2 out of 3 games and now are winning 1 out of 4 games.  What happened to cause such a dramatic departure.

[Roy H.]

The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

Pretty big stretch here with the psychoanalysis from behind your computer screen.

Sure, that is what we all do.  9-4 after that game with solid stats from the QB for the first 12 games (8-4).  2-6 since with bad stats from the QB.

Just stop digging this hole, for once

What explanation do you have?  Was Mac just playing above his head for the first 12 games last year and he has merely come back down to earth?  Was it just match-ups at the end of the year last year and this year is Patricia and not McDaniels?   What is your explanation for why Mac and Patriots were winning 2 out of 3 games and now are winning 1 out of 4 games.  What happened to cause such a dramatic departure.

My explanation:  Outside of the second Buffalo game, Mac's stats last season weren't that much different than they were for the rest of the year.  To the extent that there was a slight dip, attribute that to rookie fatigue / weather / opposing coaches getting a better handle on him.

This season is a different coaching staff, so it's hard to compare apples to apples.  Mac looks less comfortable, but people were predicting the offensive struggles back in training camp.  Things just weren't clicking offense wide.  Different coaching + different personnel = different results.

[Phantom255x]

Me reading the last two pages of this thread:

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

Pretty big stretch here with the psychoanalysis from behind your computer screen.

Sure, that is what we all do.  9-4 after that game with solid stats from the QB for the first 12 games (8-4).  2-6 since with bad stats from the QB.

Just stop digging this hole, for once

What explanation do you have?  Was Mac just playing above his head for the first 12 games last year and he has merely come back down to earth?  Was it just match-ups at the end of the year last year and this year is Patricia and not McDaniels?   What is your explanation for why Mac and Patriots were winning 2 out of 3 games and now are winning 1 out of 4 games.  What happened to cause such a dramatic departure.

My explanation:  Outside of the second Buffalo game, Mac's stats last season weren't that much different than they were for the rest of the year.  To the extent that there was a slight dip, attribute that to rookie fatigue / weather / opposing coaches getting a better handle on him.

This season is a different coaching staff, so it's hard to compare apples to apples.  Mac looks less comfortable, but people were predicting the offensive struggles back in training camp.  Things just weren't clicking offense wide.  Different coaching + different personnel = different results.

If you watch the Patriots, you’ll see that the entire Patriots team lost steam in December. Box scores don’t show the whole picture. Most Pats fans think that Mac will be a decent QB in the long term, but there will be bumps as the rest of the team is lacking talent on a relevant basis. I’m not sure Moranis watches these games. They’re definitely letting Mac chuck the ball more.

[celticsclay]

The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

Pretty big stretch here with the psychoanalysis from behind your computer screen.

Sure, that is what we all do.  9-4 after that game with solid stats from the QB for the first 12 games (8-4).  2-6 since with bad stats from the QB.

Just stop digging this hole, for once

What explanation do you have?  Was Mac just playing above his head for the first 12 games last year and he has merely come back down to earth?  Was it just match-ups at the end of the year last year and this year is Patricia and not McDaniels?   What is your explanation for why Mac and Patriots were winning 2 out of 3 games and now are winning 1 out of 4 games.  What happened to cause such a dramatic departure.

My explanation:  Outside of the second Buffalo game, Mac's stats last season weren't that much different than they were for the rest of the year.  To the extent that there was a slight dip, attribute that to rookie fatigue / weather / opposing coaches getting a better handle on him.

This season is a different coaching staff, so it's hard to compare apples to apples.  Mac looks less comfortable, but people were predicting the offensive struggles back in training camp.  Things just weren't clicking offense wide.  Different coaching + different personnel = different results.

If you watch the Patriots, you’ll see that the entire Patriots team lost steam in December. Box scores don’t show the whole picture. Most Pats fans think that Mac will be a decent QB in the long term, but there will be bumps as the rest of the team is lacking talent on a relevant basis. I’m not sure Moranis watches these games. They’re definitely letting Mac chuck the ball more.

Agreed. Again mac three 32 times for 300% yards last games. Some of the interceptions were brutal, but some of his teammates made mistakes including his wide receiver getting stripped for a turnover after a really nice gain. There were also some really nice Long gains along the way. We how have about 3 pages of this silly narrative of Mac being psychologically broken cause his team didn’t have a throw more passes in awful weather. It’s completely wild at this point.

[KG Living Legend]

 Hunter Henry and Jonnu have combined for 18 targets, 10 catches for 86 yards and zero touchdowns.

 Thats our #2 and #6 biggest cap hits on the entire team.

That 270 million spent by Bill is looking worse and worse. Spend more money on WRs you moron! And hire someone that can draft them!!!

[gouki88]

 Hunter Henry and Jonnu have combined for 18 targets, 10 catches for 86 yards and zero touchdowns.

 Thats our #2 and #6 biggest cap hits on the entire team.

That 270 million spent by Bill is looking worse and worse. Spend more money on WRs you moron! And hire someone that can draft them!!!

At least last year we utilised Henry well, just didn't know what to do with Smith.

This year, we don't know what to do with either of them! Amateur hour offence

[Phantom255x]

 Hunter Henry and Jonnu have combined for 18 targets, 10 catches for 86 yards and zero touchdowns.

 Thats our #2 and #6 biggest cap hits on the entire team.

That 270 million spent by Bill is looking worse and worse. Spend more money on WRs you moron! And hire someone that can draft them!!!

At least last year we utilised Henry well, just didn't know what to do with Smith.

This year, we don't know what to do with either of them! Amateur hour offence

I put that on Patricia. I mean, isn't he the playcaller AND O-Line coach? Even as an O-Line coach I imagine he works with the TEs a little too with the blocking schemes, etc. Yet it sounds like they barely run plays designed for our TEs. I used to think Henry didn't contribute much because other teams focused on him a lot on defense but idk, after watching the last few weeks I can't even remember Mac throwing the ball towards Henry. He's done it to Jonnu more but that's just on designed screens.

On another note, maybe someone could look this up but I'm also confused why they don't run play action as much nowadays either. They did it more last week but definitely not the previous two weeks. FOX even put up a graphic saying that it's pretty obvious what the Pats do, if it's shotgun it's always pass and if it's under center it's always run.

[gouki88]

 Hunter Henry and Jonnu have combined for 18 targets, 10 catches for 86 yards and zero touchdowns.

 Thats our #2 and #6 biggest cap hits on the entire team.

That 270 million spent by Bill is looking worse and worse. Spend more money on WRs you moron! And hire someone that can draft them!!!

At least last year we utilised Henry well, just didn't know what to do with Smith.

This year, we don't know what to do with either of them! Amateur hour offence

I put that on Patricia. I mean, isn't he the playcaller AND O-Line coach? Even as an O-Line coach I imagine he works with the TEs a little too with the blocking schemes, etc. Yet it sounds like they barely run plays designed for our TEs. I used to think Henry didn't contribute much because other teams focused on him a lot on defense but idk, after watching the last few weeks I can't even remember Mac throwing the ball towards Henry. He's done it to Jonnu more but that's just on designed screens.

On another note, maybe someone could look this up but I'm also confused why they don't run play action as much nowadays either. They did it more last week but definitely not the previous two weeks. FOX even put up a graphic saying that it's pretty obvious what the Pats do, if it's shotgun it's always pass and if it's under center it's always run.

I think I run a more sophisticated offence playing arcade-style games of Madden than Patricia does

[nickagneta]

 Hunter Henry and Jonnu have combined for 18 targets, 10 catches for 86 yards and zero touchdowns.

 Thats our #2 and #6 biggest cap hits on the entire team.

That 270 million spent by Bill is looking worse and worse. Spend more money on WRs you moron! And hire someone that can draft them!!!

At least last year we utilised Henry well, just didn't know what to do with Smith.

This year, we don't know what to do with either of them! Amateur hour offence

I put that on Patricia. I mean, isn't he the playcaller AND O-Line coach? Even as an O-Line coach I imagine he works with the TEs a little too with the blocking schemes, etc. Yet it sounds like they barely run plays designed for our TEs. I used to think Henry didn't contribute much because other teams focused on him a lot on defense but idk, after watching the last few weeks I can't even remember Mac throwing the ball towards Henry. He's done it to Jonnu more but that's just on designed screens.

On another note, maybe someone could look this up but I'm also confused why they don't run play action as much nowadays either. They did it more last week but definitely not the previous two weeks. FOX even put up a graphic saying that it's pretty obvious what the Pats do, if it's shotgun it's always pass and if it's under center it's always run.

I think I run a more sophisticated offence playing arcade-style games of Madden than Patricia does

It's a developing offense. Everything was overhauled so they're running basic vanilla stuff now and will build towards a more complex amount of sets as the season progresses.

Let's not forget who is the head coach. The tells being put out there now with lack of play action, running while under center and passing out of the gun will change. It is possible these trends have been done purposely to make opposition coaches think things will stay that way, affecting their game plans.

Gotta remember you have a 2nd year QB having to learn his 2nd pro offense in two years. You aren't going to the complex stuff straight out of the preseason. There's a learning curve and comfortability curve that's there. It's too bad Mac got hurt because I think we would have seen more schemes built in with Mac calling way more audibles as he got more comfortable and knowledgeable.

Critics have called this a bad offense but that's due mainly to it's simplicity. If people think it's going to stay that simple, hence bad, they're going to be surprised when it looks much different towards season's end.

Let's not forget that even Brady was managed his first few seasons and that he didn't explode on the scene as a truly great QB until he mastered the passing portion of the offense they had for several years. Most of those early offenses were heavy run offenses.

I'm not a Patricia fan, though I don't have truly negative opinions of him either. Things will change and I believe that because I refuse to believe that Belichick will allow things to remain static. Trends will change. Different sets will be worked in, the playbook opened up to Mac and Mac being allowed a lot more freedom to change things at the line of scrimmage.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

What a dumb hot take.

Have you looked at the numbers?

In the 12 games before that game Mac's main numbers

70.34%, 16 TD's, 8 INT's, with a 97.1 passer rating and the Patriots were 8-4.

In the 4 regular season games after the Bills game

59.85%, 6 Td's, 5 INT's with a 79.7 passer rating and the Patriots were 1-3 (and the 1 which was a  3 TD/0 INT game was the awful post-Meyer Jaguars when the Pats scored 50).

In the playoff game

63.16%, 2 TD's, 2 INT's with a 75.8 passer rating

Thus far this season

65.98%, 2 TD's, 5 INT's with a 76.2 passer rating and the Patriots are 1-2


The simple reality is, since the Patriots threw the ball 3 times against the Bills, Mac Jones has looked like an entirely different QB and the team went from winning 2 out of 3 games to winning just 1 in 4 games.  Now sure maybe that is just a coincidence and has absolutely no correlation at all, or maybe just maybe embarrassing your QB on national tv might not be the thing to do.

Eh.  He had one terrible game late last year.  The second Buffalo game really skewed things.  14-for-32, 2 INTs, 145 yards.  When talking about a small sample size, that type of terrible performance can change averages quickly.

sure, he also had a great game mixed in there balancing it out.  Patriots were 9-4 after that game and are 2-6 since.  Something changed at that point and that game sure does seem like a good starting point.  Mac was pretty bad in the 2 games right after, had the excellent game against the awful Jags, and hasn't had an even great game since.  This is over 2 seasons and the 5 games last year was the same roster that started 9-4 and yet finished 1-4.

Again Mo, out of your element. You haven’t looked at the defense beginning to suck at that time as well. Judon disappeared. Can this be tied into your crazy theory about Mac?

Did Mac seem to lack confidence yesterday? I didn’t see any evidence of that.

Btw- you’ve dodged the Belichick question… a lot. Name a better GM.

There are several GM's that are better than Bill.  Veach, Beane, DeCosta, Licht, Loomis, Roseman, Snead, Lynch, and a guy like Colbert (who just retired) was as well and there are certainly arguments for a guy like Grier (but he is pretty new).  Bill isn't the worst GM in the league, but he isn't all that close to the top either.  I absolutely think he could be if he wasn't coaching, but doing both jobs is just too hard.

How do you judge success?

I always thought winning was the ultimate metric. Putting together winning seasons and championships. Belichick may be the most detail oriented person in the NFL. He’s a boring old guy that loves the quirky little parts of history and has a particular view of what makes a good player and team. This often conflicts with the Mel Kipers of the world. Everyone hammered the Logan Mankins/Cole Strange picks. Not only does he zig when everyone zags, but he has 6 rings over 20 years. What’s the rebuttal to that Moranis?

[nickagneta]

The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

What a dumb hot take.

Have you looked at the numbers?

In the 12 games before that game Mac's main numbers

70.34%, 16 TD's, 8 INT's, with a 97.1 passer rating and the Patriots were 8-4.

In the 4 regular season games after the Bills game

59.85%, 6 Td's, 5 INT's with a 79.7 passer rating and the Patriots were 1-3 (and the 1 which was a  3 TD/0 INT game was the awful post-Meyer Jaguars when the Pats scored 50).

In the playoff game

63.16%, 2 TD's, 2 INT's with a 75.8 passer rating

Thus far this season

65.98%, 2 TD's, 5 INT's with a 76.2 passer rating and the Patriots are 1-2


The simple reality is, since the Patriots threw the ball 3 times against the Bills, Mac Jones has looked like an entirely different QB and the team went from winning 2 out of 3 games to winning just 1 in 4 games.  Now sure maybe that is just a coincidence and has absolutely no correlation at all, or maybe just maybe embarrassing your QB on national tv might not be the thing to do.

Eh.  He had one terrible game late last year.  The second Buffalo game really skewed things.  14-for-32, 2 INTs, 145 yards.  When talking about a small sample size, that type of terrible performance can change averages quickly.

sure, he also had a great game mixed in there balancing it out.  Patriots were 9-4 after that game and are 2-6 since.  Something changed at that point and that game sure does seem like a good starting point.  Mac was pretty bad in the 2 games right after, had the excellent game against the awful Jags, and hasn't had an even great game since.  This is over 2 seasons and the 5 games last year was the same roster that started 9-4 and yet finished 1-4.

Again Mo, out of your element. You haven’t looked at the defense beginning to suck at that time as well. Judon disappeared. Can this be tied into your crazy theory about Mac?

Did Mac seem to lack confidence yesterday? I didn’t see any evidence of that.

Btw- you’ve dodged the Belichick question… a lot. Name a better GM.

There are several GM's that are better than Bill.  Veach, Beane, DeCosta, Licht, Loomis, Roseman, Snead, Lynch, and a guy like Colbert (who just retired) was as well and there are certainly arguments for a guy like Grier (but he is pretty new).  Bill isn't the worst GM in the league, but he isn't all that close to the top either.  I absolutely think he could be if he wasn't coaching, but doing both jobs is just too hard.

How do you judge success?

I always thought winning was the ultimate metric. Putting together winning seasons and championships. Belichick may be the most detail oriented person in the NFL. He’s a boring old guy that loves the quirky little parts of history and has a particular view of what makes a good player and team. This often conflicts with the Mel Kipers of the world. Everyone hammered the Logan Mankins/Cole Strange picks. Not only does he zig when everyone zags, but he has 6 rings over 20 years. What’s the rebuttal to that Moranis?

6 Super Bowl Championships
9 AFC Championships
13 AFC Championship appearances
18 playoff appearances
17 AFC East Titles

Yeah, definitely bad GM.

If Belichick is a bad GM, I can only wonder at how God awful a GM Mo thinks Ozzie Newsome is. BTW, I think Newsome is an amazing GM

[Goldstar88]

The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

What a dumb hot take.

Have you looked at the numbers?

In the 12 games before that game Mac's main numbers

70.34%, 16 TD's, 8 INT's, with a 97.1 passer rating and the Patriots were 8-4.

In the 4 regular season games after the Bills game

59.85%, 6 Td's, 5 INT's with a 79.7 passer rating and the Patriots were 1-3 (and the 1 which was a  3 TD/0 INT game was the awful post-Meyer Jaguars when the Pats scored 50).

In the playoff game

63.16%, 2 TD's, 2 INT's with a 75.8 passer rating

Thus far this season

65.98%, 2 TD's, 5 INT's with a 76.2 passer rating and the Patriots are 1-2


The simple reality is, since the Patriots threw the ball 3 times against the Bills, Mac Jones has looked like an entirely different QB and the team went from winning 2 out of 3 games to winning just 1 in 4 games.  Now sure maybe that is just a coincidence and has absolutely no correlation at all, or maybe just maybe embarrassing your QB on national tv might not be the thing to do.

Eh.  He had one terrible game late last year.  The second Buffalo game really skewed things.  14-for-32, 2 INTs, 145 yards.  When talking about a small sample size, that type of terrible performance can change averages quickly.

sure, he also had a great game mixed in there balancing it out.  Patriots were 9-4 after that game and are 2-6 since.  Something changed at that point and that game sure does seem like a good starting point.  Mac was pretty bad in the 2 games right after, had the excellent game against the awful Jags, and hasn't had an even great game since.  This is over 2 seasons and the 5 games last year was the same roster that started 9-4 and yet finished 1-4.

Again Mo, out of your element. You haven’t looked at the defense beginning to suck at that time as well. Judon disappeared. Can this be tied into your crazy theory about Mac?

Did Mac seem to lack confidence yesterday? I didn’t see any evidence of that.

Btw- you’ve dodged the Belichick question… a lot. Name a better GM.

There are several GM's that are better than Bill.  Veach, Beane, DeCosta, Licht, Loomis, Roseman, Snead, Lynch, and a guy like Colbert (who just retired) was as well and there are certainly arguments for a guy like Grier (but he is pretty new).  Bill isn't the worst GM in the league, but he isn't all that close to the top either.  I absolutely think he could be if he wasn't coaching, but doing both jobs is just too hard.

How do you judge success?

I always thought winning was the ultimate metric. Putting together winning seasons and championships. Belichick may be the most detail oriented person in the NFL. He’s a boring old guy that loves the quirky little parts of history and has a particular view of what makes a good player and team. This often conflicts with the Mel Kipers of the world. Everyone hammered the Logan Mankins/Cole Strange picks. Not only does he zig when everyone zags, but he has 6 rings over 20 years. What’s the rebuttal to that Moranis?

His rebuttal is going to be that Bill can’t win without Tom and that he has a losing record pre and post Brady.