GOAT: Jordan or James?

[Moranis]

Agree, LeBron is bigger and stronger, both can jump, Jordan has more competitive drive and mental toughness.

 Does anyone want to bring PEDs in this topic? Lebron is Sammy Sosa times marc Mcguire.  Lebron is the king of Steroids in basketball.

Was Larry on Roids? Magic? JORDAN was ripped but skinny. Lebron has been losing his hairline since 25 years old.

of course Jordan was on roids. Guy goes from getting manhandled by the Pistons and in 1 offseason gains 15 pounds of solid muscle (ona new training regimen) and wasn't manhandled again.  It was the 80's when roids were everywhere. It was also the 80's when no one talked about it.  Imagine the stories today where you have a player talking about how he needs to get stronger and in the course of 3 months gets ripped by using a new trainer and new training regimen.  Jordan absolutely used roids, well at least by how we view players using today without any real evidence to support that.

[Roy H.]

Agree, LeBron is bigger and stronger, both can jump, Jordan has more competitive drive and mental toughness.

 Does anyone want to bring PEDs in this topic? Lebron is Sammy Sosa times marc Mcguire.  Lebron is the king of Steroids in basketball.

Was Larry on Roids? Magic? JORDAN was ripped but skinny. Lebron has been losing his hairline since 25 years old.

of course Jordan was on roids. Guy goes from getting manhandled by the Pistons and in 1 offseason gains 15 pounds of solid muscle (ona new training regimen) and wasn't manhandled again.  It was the 80's when roids were everywhere. It was also the 80's when no one talked about it.  Imagine the stories today where you have a player talking about how he needs to get stronger and in the course of 3 months gets ripped by using a new trainer and new training regimen.  Jordan absolutely used roids, well at least by how we view players using today without any real evidence to support that.

From my experience, I think that putting on 15 pounds of muscle mass isn't that hard when you initially start lifting.  It's been years, but after high school the first summer I lifted (aided by constantly doing push ups) I transformed my body and added a ton of lean weight.  No steroids, supplements or PEDs.  No personal trainer, either.  I think that makes sense.  It's similar to a diet, where people can lose a ton of weight initially, but then plateau.

Also, MJ's head didn't double in size and he doesn't have any weird growths on his jaw.  Also, there are no rumors about him being linked to PED labs in Florida.

[celticsclay]

Agree, LeBron is bigger and stronger, both can jump, Jordan has more competitive drive and mental toughness.

 Does anyone want to bring PEDs in this topic? Lebron is Sammy Sosa times marc Mcguire.  Lebron is the king of Steroids in basketball.

Was Larry on Roids? Magic? JORDAN was ripped but skinny. Lebron has been losing his hairline since 25 years old.

of course Jordan was on roids. Guy goes from getting manhandled by the Pistons and in 1 offseason gains 15 pounds of solid muscle (ona new training regimen) and wasn't manhandled again.  It was the 80's when roids were everywhere. It was also the 80's when no one talked about it.  Imagine the stories today where you have a player talking about how he needs to get stronger and in the course of 3 months gets ripped by using a new trainer and new training regimen.  Jordan absolutely used roids, well at least by how we view players using today without any real evidence to support that.

Lol. Jordan would not even touch alcohol back then but he must have been on steroids cause he went from never lifting to putting on 10-15 pounds over 3-4 months. That’s rich.

[celticsclay]

Agree, LeBron is bigger and stronger, both can jump, Jordan has more competitive drive and mental toughness.

 Does anyone want to bring PEDs in this topic? Lebron is Sammy Sosa times marc Mcguire.  Lebron is the king of Steroids in basketball.

Was Larry on Roids? Magic? JORDAN was ripped but skinny. Lebron has been losing his hairline since 25 years old.

of course Jordan was on roids. Guy goes from getting manhandled by the Pistons and in 1 offseason gains 15 pounds of solid muscle (ona new training regimen) and wasn't manhandled again.  It was the 80's when roids were everywhere. It was also the 80's when no one talked about it.  Imagine the stories today where you have a player talking about how he needs to get stronger and in the course of 3 months gets ripped by using a new trainer and new training regimen.  Jordan absolutely used roids, well at least by how we view players using today without any real evidence to support that.

From my experience, I think that putting on 15 pounds of muscle mass isn't that hard when you initially start lifting.  It's been years, but after high school the first summer I lifted (aided by constantly doing push ups) I transformed my body and added a ton of lean weight.  No steroids, supplements or PEDs.  No personal trainer, either.  I think that makes sense.  It's similar to a diet, where people can lose a ton of weight initially, but then plateau.

Also, MJ's head didn't double in size and he doesn't have any weird growths on his jaw.  Also, there are no rumors about him being linked to PED labs in Florida.

Yeah this is a pretty ignorant comment from Moranis that shows a very poor knowledge of how working out works especially when you start working out. Your literally talking about Jordan gaining a pound of muscle a week working with a personal trainer and changing his diet. Everyone I know that started working out uses steroids by this logic. Meanwhile Lebron had a growth removed from his jaw and weighs 40 more pounds at a time his testosterone is in decline. But 15 pounds. The horror! Man what an embarrassing fan post.

[nickagneta]

Agree, LeBron is bigger and stronger, both can jump, Jordan has more competitive drive and mental toughness.

 Does anyone want to bring PEDs in this topic? Lebron is Sammy Sosa times marc Mcguire.  Lebron is the king of Steroids in basketball.

Was Larry on Roids? Magic? JORDAN was ripped but skinny. Lebron has been losing his hairline since 25 years old.

of course Jordan was on roids. Guy goes from getting manhandled by the Pistons and in 1 offseason gains 15 pounds of solid muscle (ona new training regimen) and wasn't manhandled again.  It was the 80's when roids were everywhere. It was also the 80's when no one talked about it.  Imagine the stories today where you have a player talking about how he needs to get stronger and in the course of 3 months gets ripped by using a new trainer and new training regimen.  Jordan absolutely used roids, well at least by how we view players using today without any real evidence to support that.

From my experience, I think that putting on 15 pounds of muscle mass isn't that hard when you initially start lifting.  It's been years, but after high school the first summer I lifted (aided by constantly doing push ups) I transformed my body and added a ton of lean weight.  No steroids, supplements or PEDs.  No personal trainer, either.  I think that makes sense.  It's similar to a diet, where people can lose a ton of weight initially, but then plateau.

Also, MJ's head didn't double in size and he doesn't have any weird growths on his jaw.  Also, there are no rumors about him being linked to PED labs in Florida.

Especially at the age MJ was at at the time.

My senior year of high school I was measured at 6' 1/2", 185 pounds...with no fat. Played baseball and football. Did some lifting but was mostly a running and push up type guy.

Started lifting in college and jumped pretty quickly to 210 pounds. I think it was my time at 19-24 to put on my man muscle and the weight lifting helped. I never took supplements or steroids. Of course, this was 1983-1989 and steroids were in their infancy and not as easy to get as they were in the 90's and beyond, so the idea of taking them wasn't manifested in the society as much.

I don't think MJ took steroids. He didn't have the telltale signs of other generally perceived to have taken steroids athletes. Guys like Lebron, Dwight Howard and a whole lot of football players.

[celticsclay]

Agree, LeBron is bigger and stronger, both can jump, Jordan has more competitive drive and mental toughness.

 Does anyone want to bring PEDs in this topic? Lebron is Sammy Sosa times marc Mcguire.  Lebron is the king of Steroids in basketball.

Was Larry on Roids? Magic? JORDAN was ripped but skinny. Lebron has been losing his hairline since 25 years old.

of course Jordan was on roids. Guy goes from getting manhandled by the Pistons and in 1 offseason gains 15 pounds of solid muscle (ona new training regimen) and wasn't manhandled again.  It was the 80's when roids were everywhere. It was also the 80's when no one talked about it.  Imagine the stories today where you have a player talking about how he needs to get stronger and in the course of 3 months gets ripped by using a new trainer and new training regimen.  Jordan absolutely used roids, well at least by how we view players using today without any real evidence to support that.

From my experience, I think that putting on 15 pounds of muscle mass isn't that hard when you initially start lifting.  It's been years, but after high school the first summer I lifted (aided by constantly doing push ups) I transformed my body and added a ton of lean weight.  No steroids, supplements or PEDs.  No personal trainer, either.  I think that makes sense.  It's similar to a diet, where people can lose a ton of weight initially, but then plateau.

Also, MJ's head didn't double in size and he doesn't have any weird growths on his jaw.  Also, there are no rumors about him being linked to PED labs in Florida.

Especially at the age MJ was at at the time.

My senior year of high school I was measured at 6' 1/2", 185 pounds...with no fat. Played baseball and football. Did some lifting but was mostly a running and push up type guy.

Started lifting in college and jumped pretty quickly to 210 pounds. I think it was my time at 19-24 to put on my man muscle and the weight lifting helped. I never took supplements or steroids. Of course, this was 1983-1989 and steroids were in their infancy and not as easy to get as they were in the 90's and beyond, so the idea of taking them wasn't manifested in the society as much.

I don't think MJ took steroids. He didn't have the telltale signs of other generally perceived to have taken steroids athletes. Guys like Lebron, Dwight Howard and a whole lot of football players.

I personally went from about 170 to 185-190 over the first 4-5 months of my Sophmore year college doing nothing more than doing barbell lifting (starting strength program), and supplementing with a bit of protein. I was also primarily eating the food in the cafeteria and did not have a trainer or access to any sort of nutrition program. This is very normal stuff for someone in their 20’s and one of the more bizarre reasons I have ever seen someone confidently used as evidence of steroid use. Neither me or my
Two friends doing this with me were ever accused of being on steroids by anyone.

[Moranis]

It was 1989, Jordan was a pro for years at that point and he started to get receding hairline just after that. 

This guy lays out it fairly well. 

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3547828

[Roy H.]

It was 1989, Jordan was a pro for years at that point and he started to get receding hairline just after that. 

This guy lays out it fairly well. 

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3547828

Receding hairline?  Look up some pictures from 1988 and earlier.  MJ has never been known for his full head of hair.

But obviously, you’re conceding the point that Lebron is a PED freak, right?

[celticsclay]

It was 1989, Jordan was a pro for years at that point and he started to get receding hairline just after that. 

This guy lays out it fairly well. 

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3547828

Lol what an embarrassing attempt at an argument “He began fighting with team mates, saying profanities on the basketball court in front of young fans and developed a crippling gambling addiction that likely stemmed from the same addictive personality disorder that led him to steroid abuse.”

Come on mo, you are better than this. He lost his hair and became more “competitive” and gambled? Should we search the World Series of pokers for anabolic steroids? Did bird do them cause he got in a bar fight. Bit embarrassing thread for the forum here. No more links to “something awful forums” or posts please.

[celticsclay]

It was 1989, Jordan was a pro for years at that point and he started to get receding hairline just after that. 

This guy lays out it fairly well. 

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3547828

Receding hairline?  Look up some pictures from 1988 and earlier.  MJ has never been known for his full head of hair.

But obviously, you’re conceding the point that Lebron is a PED freak, right?

Thought there were some rules on the forum on just allowing gossip at a level below tmz? Here is Jordan in 88 before he lost his hair to steroids https://sicovers.com/featured/chicago-bulls-michael-jordan-1988-nba-eastern-conference-may-16-1988-sports-illustrated-cover.html?product=poster

You log in here and see this kind of stuff and makes us all look like idiots. For the record I’m not even a particularly huge Jordan fan, especially as a person. But this is weird stuff…

[gouki88]

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that most pros are juicing. But juicing doesn't magically make you big and strong - it's still the most gifted athletes with the best work ethic who are the top.

[Moranis]

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that most pros are juicing. But juicing doesn't magically make you big and strong - it's still the most gifted athletes with the best work ethic who are the top.

As do I, especially in the days before there was any testing at all since there was basically no downside for them to do it.   

Jordan gets beefed up significantly in one off season at age 27.  His body noticeably changed, as did his temper.  He quits the sport suddenly and ends up one one of the dirtiest minor league baseball teams in history.  I'm sure that is just a coincidence though because Jordan can do no wrong. 

[Moranis]

It was 1989, Jordan was a pro for years at that point and he started to get receding hairline just after that. 

This guy lays out it fairly well. 

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3547828

Receding hairline?  Look up some pictures from 1988 and earlier.  MJ has never been known for his full head of hair.

But obviously, you’re conceding the point that Lebron is a PED freak, right?

I have no idea, but the same arguments people use with James also work with Jordan, that was the point I was making.  As I said in my last post, it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of players used at least at some point in their career.  I know a lot of players who have owned their usage have said they did it for injury recovery.  That seems likely for a lot of athletes because those sorts of ped's do wonder on healing.

[celticsclay]

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that most pros are juicing. But juicing doesn't magically make you big and strong - it's still the most gifted athletes with the best work ethic who are the top.

As do I, especially in the days before there was any testing at all since there was basically no downside for them to do it.   

Jordan gets beefed up significantly in one off season at age 27.  His body noticeably changed, as did his temper.  He quits the sport suddenly and ends up one one of the dirtiest minor league baseball teams in history.  I'm sure that is just a coincidence though because Jordan can do no wrong.

Was this on newsmax?

For those interested in actual content here is a pretty nice read on Jordan’s time in minors. They were actually managed by Tito Francona, but didn’t have a lot of guys that made a mark in the majors looking at the roster. https://www.al.com/sports/2020/04/a-magical-year-looking-back-at-michael-jordans-season-as-a-birmingham-baron.html

[KG Living Legend]

 I have no doubts Jordan was on gear as the kids say now at some point. My point is Lebron is the "King" of Steroids in the NBA. 

 He's very gifted of course,  He's also been juiced to the gills and obviously loaded with HGH as well. He's a true science experiment.

 Can you guys imagine Larry and Magic taking massive amounts of PEDs for 20 years? The league would have been a joke for them.