Author Topic: Is Grant a goner? (Yes: Traded to DAL for second rounders)  (Read 74534 times)

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Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2022, 12:10:01 PM »

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Boston found a value deal with Robert Williams III just last August, extending the Celtics’ starting center for four years, $48 million plus incentives. Cap experts contacted by B/R projected that that salary range can set a benchmark for Grant Williams’ negotiations, but rival executives are skeptical that Boston will be willing to spend much greater a dollar amount on Grant than for Robert.  – via Jake Fischer @ Bleacher Report
They’d be dumb to give Grant Williams $12 mil per. He’s like a poor man’s PJ Tucker.

Except that he turns 24 this season and an extension would pay him through his age 25-28 seasons.  And the cap is likely to rise by 10% each year of his contract.  Grant at 23 was way better than Tucker at 23.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2022, 12:35:43 PM »

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Grant is going to be a tough call.  He is a useful, versatile, young player who has been improving.  But if it takes $12M to keep him, we may not be able to afford that.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2022, 12:45:26 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I think Grant would have a hard time saying no to a $50M/4yr contract. And if I'm the Cs, I do go that high. He is the ultimate teammate, he is still young, and he is durable.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2022, 12:51:18 PM »

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Grant is going to be a tough call.  He is a useful, versatile, young player who has been improving.  But if it takes $12M to keep him, we may not be able to afford that.

I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to afford that.  It’s for next year, the cap and tax will go up another 10%, and Horford isn’t getting paid $26.5 million next year.  Grant and Al are getting paid $30.8 million combined this year.  Collectively they’ll very likely cost less.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2022, 02:02:28 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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I think Grant would have a hard time saying no to a $50M/4yr contract. And if I'm the Cs, I do go that high. He is the ultimate teammate, he is still young, and he is durable.

He should be given the same contract Rob received. Timelord is a better player by quite a bit, but he misses time, so it evens things out in terms of paying Grant the same.
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Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2022, 02:44:22 PM »

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He is Brads son by another mum …going no where

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2022, 03:04:35 PM »

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Grant is going to be a tough call.  He is a useful, versatile, young player who has been improving.  But if it takes $12M to keep him, we may not be able to afford that.

I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to afford that.  It’s for next year, the cap and tax will go up another 10%, and Horford isn’t getting paid $26.5 million next year.  Grant and Al are getting paid $30.8 million combined this year.  Collectively they’ll very likely cost less.

You are right, we could but to me, that is just too much money for him.  I like Grant, love his versatility but I don't see him as a $12M-$13M player.  I am almost always wrong about how much players can get on the open market though.  They always get more than I think.

He will be a restricted FA.  I think just under what Rob Williams got would be fair.  Maybe starting at say $9M?  His QO is $6.2M.  I am sure that will be offered and then he can test the market.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2022, 03:28:13 PM »

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Grant is going to be a tough call.  He is a useful, versatile, young player who has been improving.  But if it takes $12M to keep him, we may not be able to afford that.

I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to afford that.  It’s for next year, the cap and tax will go up another 10%, and Horford isn’t getting paid $26.5 million next year.  Grant and Al are getting paid $30.8 million combined this year.  Collectively they’ll very likely cost less.

You are right, we could but to me, that is just too much money for him.  I like Grant, love his versatility but I don't see him as a $12M-$13M player.  I am almost always wrong about how much players can get on the open market though.  They always get more than I think.

He will be a restricted FA.  I think just under what Rob Williams got would be fair.  Maybe starting at say $9M?  His QO is $6.2M.  I am sure that will be offered and then he can test the market.

Yeah, I think you're just underestimating him a lot.  The MLE is currently forecast 4 years, $48.5 million, and will likely go up a little.   He's almost certain to exceed that if he hits free agency -- that MLE is his floor.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2022, 03:38:57 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Grant is going to be a tough call.  He is a useful, versatile, young player who has been improving.  But if it takes $12M to keep him, we may not be able to afford that.

I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to afford that.  It’s for next year, the cap and tax will go up another 10%, and Horford isn’t getting paid $26.5 million next year.  Grant and Al are getting paid $30.8 million combined this year.  Collectively they’ll very likely cost less.

You are right, we could but to me, that is just too much money for him.  I like Grant, love his versatility but I don't see him as a $12M-$13M player.  I am almost always wrong about how much players can get on the open market though.  They always get more than I think.

He will be a restricted FA.  I think just under what Rob Williams got would be fair.  Maybe starting at say $9M?  His QO is $6.2M.  I am sure that will be offered and then he can test the market.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Grant this season - assuming he’s with the Cs throughout. 

If he maintains or increases his minutes/role it’s likely his value will exceed MLE.  If he isn’t getting the same minutes - is surpassed in the rotation —  MLE might be just about right. 

Grant’s been improving and I’m hopeful he’ll contribute to
an improved, deep team.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2022, 03:56:49 PM »

Online RJ87

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Grant is going to be a tough call.  He is a useful, versatile, young player who has been improving.  But if it takes $12M to keep him, we may not be able to afford that.

I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to afford that.  It’s for next year, the cap and tax will go up another 10%, and Horford isn’t getting paid $26.5 million next year.  Grant and Al are getting paid $30.8 million combined this year.  Collectively they’ll very likely cost less.

You are right, we could but to me, that is just too much money for him.  I like Grant, love his versatility but I don't see him as a $12M-$13M player.  I am almost always wrong about how much players can get on the open market though.  They always get more than I think.

He will be a restricted FA.  I think just under what Rob Williams got would be fair.  Maybe starting at say $9M?  His QO is $6.2M.  I am sure that will be offered and then he can test the market.

Yeah, I think you're just underestimating him a lot.  The MLE is currently forecast 4 years, $48.5 million, and will likely go up a little.   He's almost certain to exceed that if he hits free agency -- that MLE is his floor.

I have to agree. If 37 year old PJ Tucker can get a 3 year MLE deal with a player option at age 40, Grant should have no issue getting an MLE offer too. That should be his agent's starting point.
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Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2022, 04:23:14 PM »

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Grant is going to be a tough call.  He is a useful, versatile, young player who has been improving.  But if it takes $12M to keep him, we may not be able to afford that.

I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to afford that.  It’s for next year, the cap and tax will go up another 10%, and Horford isn’t getting paid $26.5 million next year.  Grant and Al are getting paid $30.8 million combined this year.  Collectively they’ll very likely cost less.

You are right, we could but to me, that is just too much money for him.  I like Grant, love his versatility but I don't see him as a $12M-$13M player.  I am almost always wrong about how much players can get on the open market though.  They always get more than I think.

He will be a restricted FA.  I think just under what Rob Williams got would be fair.  Maybe starting at say $9M?  His QO is $6.2M.  I am sure that will be offered and then he can test the market.

Yeah, I think you're just underestimating him a lot.  The MLE is currently forecast 4 years, $48.5 million, and will likely go up a little.   He's almost certain to exceed that if he hits free agency -- that MLE is his floor.

I have to agree. If 37 year old PJ Tucker can get a 3 year MLE deal with a player option at age 40, Grant should have no issue getting an MLE offer too. That should be his agent's starting point.

I get that PJ Tucker is kind of a good comp for Grant but Tucker has started 581 games including 70 for Miami last season, he is an established starting PF.  Grant is not, and I don't think ever will be.  Tucker is better.  He may not be in 2 or 3 years but right now, he is better.  Tucker got 3 years/$33M.  He started at $10.5M.  I am saying Grant should start more like $9M not $12M.  It is all in the same ball park.

If I was the Celtics, I would not have paid $33M for Tucker.  And just because PHI decided to pay that to Tucker, doesn't make it a good idea for the Celtics to pay Grant 4 years and $50M or whatever it is that is being suggested.  PHI has a long history of bad contracts.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2022, 04:26:39 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Grant is going to be a tough call.  He is a useful, versatile, young player who has been improving.  But if it takes $12M to keep him, we may not be able to afford that.

I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to afford that.  It’s for next year, the cap and tax will go up another 10%, and Horford isn’t getting paid $26.5 million next year.  Grant and Al are getting paid $30.8 million combined this year.  Collectively they’ll very likely cost less.

You are right, we could but to me, that is just too much money for him.  I like Grant, love his versatility but I don't see him as a $12M-$13M player.  I am almost always wrong about how much players can get on the open market though.  They always get more than I think.

He will be a restricted FA.  I think just under what Rob Williams got would be fair.  Maybe starting at say $9M?  His QO is $6.2M.  I am sure that will be offered and then he can test the market.

Yeah, I think you're just underestimating him a lot.  The MLE is currently forecast 4 years, $48.5 million, and will likely go up a little.   He's almost certain to exceed that if he hits free agency -- that MLE is his floor.

Grants a decent bench guy, however, I think many overestimate his abilities. In 24.4mpg last season, Grant gave the C’s 7.8pts and 3.6rebs per game. His per 36 is 11.6pts and 5.3rebs, which isn’t very good. His defense is good, but not great.

Now compare that to Rob who played 29.6mpg and gave the C’s 10pts, 9.6rebs and 2.2blks per game while playing great defense. His per 36 is 12.1pts, 11.7rebs, and 2.7blk. Rob is a much better player. Grant should not be paid more than Rob.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
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At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2022, 04:44:29 PM »

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Grant is going to be a tough call.  He is a useful, versatile, young player who has been improving.  But if it takes $12M to keep him, we may not be able to afford that.

I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to afford that.  It’s for next year, the cap and tax will go up another 10%, and Horford isn’t getting paid $26.5 million next year.  Grant and Al are getting paid $30.8 million combined this year.  Collectively they’ll very likely cost less.

You are right, we could but to me, that is just too much money for him.  I like Grant, love his versatility but I don't see him as a $12M-$13M player.  I am almost always wrong about how much players can get on the open market though.  They always get more than I think.

He will be a restricted FA.  I think just under what Rob Williams got would be fair.  Maybe starting at say $9M?  His QO is $6.2M.  I am sure that will be offered and then he can test the market.

Yeah, I think you're just underestimating him a lot.  The MLE is currently forecast 4 years, $48.5 million, and will likely go up a little.   He's almost certain to exceed that if he hits free agency -- that MLE is his floor.

Grants a decent bench guy, however, I think many overestimate his abilities. In 24.4mpg last season, Grant gave the C’s 7.8pts and 3.6rebs per game. His per 36 is 11.6pts and 5.3rebs, which isn’t very good. His defense is good, but not great.

Now compare that to Rob who played 29.6mpg and gave the C’s 10pts, 9.6rebs and 2.2blks per game while playing great defense. His per 36 is 12.1pts, 11.7rebs, and 2.7blk. Rob is a much better player. Grant should not be paid more than Rob.

Rob got his contract after year 3, not after year 4.  Rob's year 3 numbers were 8 points, 7 boards and 2 blocks in 19 minutes per game.  And that was after showing pretty much nothing in his first two years, compared to Grant who's been in the rotation from practically Day 1 and has been much more regularly available than Rob.  You can't compare Grant at Year 3 to Rob in Year 4 and say "Oh, Grant can't be paid as much as Rob". 

And again, for what seems like the millionth time but can't be because I only have 4000 posts, the salary cap increases practically every year, and you have to take that into account.  Guys who sign a deal a year later, will, on average, be paid more than the guy who signed a year earlier.  It's just how it works.  It jumped a ton from last year to this year, substantially more than was projected when Rob signed his contract, and will increase again next year -- it's currently projected to be 12% higher when Grant's contract kicks in that it was projected to be for Rob's new deal when he signed.  So if they were equals, you'd expect Grant to make 12% more than Rob.  That would put Grant at about 4 years, $54 million guaranteed, with incentives taking the deal up to around 4 years $60 million.  I think somewhere between the MLE forecast of 4/$48.5 and 4/60, is where he ends up.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2022, 04:49:17 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Boston found a value deal with Robert Williams III just last August, extending the Celtics’ starting center for four years, $48 million plus incentives. Cap experts contacted by B/R projected that that salary range can set a benchmark for Grant Williams’ negotiations, but rival executives are skeptical that Boston will be willing to spend much greater a dollar amount on Grant than for Robert.  – via Jake Fischer @ Bleacher Report
They’d be dumb to give Grant Williams $12 mil per. He’s like a poor man’s PJ Tucker.

Except that he turns 24 this season and an extension would pay him through his age 25-28 seasons.  And the cap is likely to rise by 10% each year of his contract.  Grant at 23 was way better than Tucker at 23.
Grant Williams is incredibly overrated by people here. He’s really not that good. He doesn’t have a position. He’s not big enough to be a solid big. He’s too slow to be a solid wing. I get that we want Cs draft picks to succeed/be great but this guy is just a JAG. Nice guy. Good teammate. Okay player. I don’t think that warrants that much money imo.

Re: Is Grant a goner?
« Reply #74 on: July 19, 2022, 04:53:27 PM »

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Boston found a value deal with Robert Williams III just last August, extending the Celtics’ starting center for four years, $48 million plus incentives. Cap experts contacted by B/R projected that that salary range can set a benchmark for Grant Williams’ negotiations, but rival executives are skeptical that Boston will be willing to spend much greater a dollar amount on Grant than for Robert.  – via Jake Fischer @ Bleacher Report
They’d be dumb to give Grant Williams $12 mil per. He’s like a poor man’s PJ Tucker.

Except that he turns 24 this season and an extension would pay him through his age 25-28 seasons.  And the cap is likely to rise by 10% each year of his contract.  Grant at 23 was way better than Tucker at 23.
Grant Williams is incredibly overrated by people here. He’s really not that good. He doesn’t have a position. He’s not big enough to be a solid big. He’s too slow to be a solid wing. I get that we want Cs draft picks to succeed/be great but this guy is just a JAG. Nice guy. Good teammate. Okay player. I don’t think that warrants that much money imo.

He's not a great player. Grant's value is almost exclusively his ability to slow down the best players in the game (slow, not stop). I don't think the Celtics should move on from him until they get another guy like this. Heck, Semi Ojeleye might be that guy. A younger version of PJ Tucker is what we should be looking for.