NBA Off Season 2022

[pokeKingCurtis]

Draft picks are about trying to get more bites at the apple

Not everyone is gonna be Danny freakin Ainge. Even Marcus Smart is arguably a good pick in retrospect, as he's doing better than Simmons and Randle now

[celticsclay]

Draft picks are about trying to get more bites at the apple

Not everyone is gonna be Danny freakin Ainge. Even Marcus Smart is arguably a good pick in retrospect, as he's doing better than Simmons and Randle now

Would you rather have simmons or Ingram right now?

[pokeKingCurtis]

Draft picks are about trying to get more bites at the apple

Not everyone is gonna be Danny freakin Ainge. Even Marcus Smart is arguably a good pick in retrospect, as he's doing better than Simmons and Randle now

Would you rather have simmons or Ingram right now?

If I were to try and pinpoint where the "process" went wrong, I would speculate it's the other stuff. Like hiring Doc Rivers who flip flopped on whether Simmons needs a jumpshot or not.

It was dead when they fired Hinkie and made all these changes. And then all these politics got involved

There's more than one way to slay a cat.  I'm a fan of variety in how teams build rosters, not necessarily a Huge fan of the process itself. But Simmons and Embiid  could have worked out


Edit: there's also the vetting of nba prospects mentally. I guess you can be an average drafter but not a bad one (Noel, jahlil and arguably Simmons). Ainge was somewhat famous for caring about these things, the mental side of the game

[celticsclay]

Draft picks are about trying to get more bites at the apple

Not everyone is gonna be Danny freakin Ainge. Even Marcus Smart is arguably a good pick in retrospect, as he's doing better than Simmons and Randle now

Would you rather have simmons or Ingram right now?

If I were to try and pinpoint where the "process" went wrong, I would speculate it's the other stuff. Like hiring Doc Rivers who flip flopped on whether Simmons needs a jumpshot or not.

It was dead when they fired Hinkie and made all these changes. And then all these politics got involved

There's more than one way to slay a cat.  I'm a fan of variety in how teams build rosters, not necessarily a Huge fan of the process itself. But Simmons and Embiid  could have worked out


Edit: there's also the vetting of nba prospects mentally. I guess you can be an average drafter but not a bad one (Noel, jahlil and arguably Simmons). Ainge was somewhat famous for caring about these things, the mental side of the game

I think the 76ers were notoriously behind some other NBA teams in how little they valued shooting. Okafor, noel and simmons couldn’t really shoot from beyond 12 feet. You can barely play one guy that is like that, can’t spend 3 lottery picks on them in 5 years. Maybe there is some crazy world where simmons turns it around this year but he has always come off as someone that is more into celebrity than basketball and comparing him to someone like Ingram who has dramatically improved his shooting gets downright embarrassing.

[Roy H.]

Ben Simmons’ problem isn’t that he’s a bad shooter.  It’s between his ears.  Mentally, he was so scared to shoot that he passed up layups.  He wouldn’t shoot at all in the fourth quarter of playoff games.

Then, he quit on his team for an entire season.

He can be a very valuable player, but not if he doesn’t get his mind right.

[celticsclay]

Ben Simmons’ problem isn’t that he’s a bad shooter.  It’s between his ears.  Mentally, he was so scared to shoot that he passed up layups.  He wouldn’t shoot at all in the fourth quarter of playoff games.

Then, he quit on his team for an entire season.

He can be a very valuable player, but not if he doesn’t get his mind right.

If you are saying this because of the hawks series than I agree. But when we beat him in the playoffs the memory was he wasn’t as egregious on that account, but you can still sag off of him even if he just isn’t shooting a 12 footer. He won’t even take the shots Robert Williams will. I’m not sure if he can make them or not, he does shoot with his wrong hand. But either way he clearly is not a better player than Brandon Ingram right now.

[Rondo9]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1563593483796881408

 

[Moranis]

So in sum, bad doesn't mean tanking, but the Thunder are tanking and have been for 3 seasons.

Does 3 seasons include '20 when they sold high on Westbrook and made the playoffs, or is it including this upcoming '23 season?

Because I really think they only started tanking halfway through '21.  Everything before and after that comes off more like playing the hand they were dealt to me.

Also don't think free agents is the right indicator to use here.  They have a full roster and have been drafting 5 guys per year over the last 2.  No roster room.

It includes this one as the off season has been completed and they made no moves that would yield anyone to the conclusion that they are trying to win games.  That has been clear from all of my posts the last couple pages of this thread.  It starts the summer they sold off Chris Paul.  As I've indicated the only 2 non-rookies they've acquired the last 3 off seasons have been Moses Brown and Mamadi Diakite.  They have 9 players on the 15 man roster in their 1st or 2nd year and only 4 of those are 1st round picks.  The Thunder are a franchise that has been telling the world for the last 3 off seasons that they are actively trying to lose games based on the moves they are making.  That was going to continue whether Holmgren got hurt or not, his injury just gives them more cover. 

[td450]

Ben Simmons’ problem isn’t that he’s a bad shooter.  It’s between his ears.  Mentally, he was so scared to shoot that he passed up layups.  He wouldn’t shoot at all in the fourth quarter of playoff games.

Then, he quit on his team for an entire season.

He can be a very valuable player, but not if he doesn’t get his mind right.

That is a weird take.

https://i.redd.it/8npkfc1a78t71.jpg

According to a Hoopshype article from last year, the average distance of his shots since coming into the league is just 4.49 feet. Jayson Tatum will take more shots over 15 feet in a month than Ben Simmons has in his whole career.

This isn't just yips. The dude just doesn't play the same way as everyone else. He never has.

[Moranis]

Now I've said the fact that they've won 50 games multiple times would deem the process a success given just how awful the Sixers had been since Barkley, but that was never the goal of the Sixers. 

I’ve avoided those debates, but the current Sixers have made it exactly as far as the Holiday / Iguodala Sixers did in the playoffs.  That can absolutely change, but to date I’m not sure that that outcome is worth several seasons of historically terrible basketball.

That is true, but when Hinkie came on Iguodala was already off the team as a result of that awful Bynum trade.  In fact, it was the terribleness of that trade that led to the conclusion a complete blow up and rebuild was necessary.

For the record, that trade was

Iguodala, Harkless, Vucevic, future 1st which couldn't convey for at least 3 years (which became De'Aaron Fox)

for

Bynum, Richardson


Bynum never played a game for the Sixers as a result of his knee injury.


So that is what Hinkie walked into a team that had Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Lavoy Allen, Thad Young, Nick Young, Jason Richardson, and a bunch of crap.  That was missing two 1st round picks (the one from the Bynum trade, but also one they owed the Heat) and was coming off a 34-38 season (good enough for the 11th pick).  They were never going to win with that team.  They were missing two future 1st's, which were protected in such a way it made it nearly impossible to trade future 1st's.  They had no hope.  They had to rebuild.  And sure they could have kept Holiday and tried to build around him, but everyone knew Holiday wasn't a franchise player, but was also good enough to keep the Sixers from bottoming out completely (and ending up like a team like the Kings).  The Sixers were open about it and that is what got them into trouble, but no one bats an eye when Presti tears down a much better team, with much better future assets, and better players and is now entering year 3 of the exact same thing the Sixers did.  Presti just doesn't broadcast it

[Roy H.]

Now I've said the fact that they've won 50 games multiple times would deem the process a success given just how awful the Sixers had been since Barkley, but that was never the goal of the Sixers. 

I’ve avoided those debates, but the current Sixers have made it exactly as far as the Holiday / Iguodala Sixers did in the playoffs.  That can absolutely change, but to date I’m not sure that that outcome is worth several seasons of historically terrible basketball.

That is true, but when Hinkie came on Iguodala was already off the team as a result of that awful Bynum trade.  In fact, it was the terribleness of that trade that led to the conclusion a complete blow up and rebuild was necessary.

For the record, that trade was

Iguodala, Harkless, Vucevic, future 1st which couldn't convey for at least 3 years (which became De'Aaron Fox)

for

Bynum, Richardson


Bynum never played a game for the Sixers as a result of his knee injury.


So that is what Hinkie walked into a team that had Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Lavoy Allen, Thad Young, Nick Young, Jason Richardson, and a bunch of crap.  That was missing two 1st round picks (the one from the Bynum trade, but also one they owed the Heat) and was coming off a 34-38 season (good enough for the 11th pick).  They were never going to win with that team.  They were missing two future 1st's, which were protected in such a way it made it nearly impossible to trade future 1st's.  They had no hope.  They had to rebuild.  And sure they could have kept Holiday and tried to build around him, but everyone knew Holiday wasn't a franchise player, but was also good enough to keep the Sixers from bottoming out completely (and ending up like a team like the Kings).  The Sixers were open about it and that is what got them into trouble, but no one bats an eye when Presti tears down a much better team, with much better future assets, and better players and is now entering year 3 of the exact same thing the Sixers did.  Presti just doesn't broadcast it

For whatever it’s worth, basketball reference has Philly giving up Iguodala plus:

Maurice Harkless, Nikola Vučević and a 2018 1st round draft pick (Landry Shamet was later selected) to the Orlando Magic. (1st Round pick from PHI to ORL was eventually traded back to PHI. 1st-Rd pick from LAL to ORL turns into 2017 & 2018 2nd-Rd picks if Lakers 1st-Rd pick traded to PHO/PHI does not convey by 2017

So, not as bad, but still terrible.

[Birdman]

Bynum is still young at 34, thought he was older

[celticsclay]

I don’t get why we can’t just laugh at the 76ers at this point. Fultz, noel, okafor simmons. Keeping simmons and Brett brown over butler. Trading bridges to the suns for a guy out of the league after interviewing his mom on live tv. It’s been an absolute comedy of errors and I don’t understand Celtics fans that can’t take joy in it.

[Birdman]

I don’t get why we can’t just laugh at the 76ers at this point. Fultz, noel, okafor simmons. Keeping simmons and Brett brown over butler. Trading bridges to the suns for a guy out of the league after interviewing his mom on live tv. It’s been an absolute comedy of errors and I don’t understand Celtics fans that can’t take joy in it.

I love it when Philly & Lakers mess up..Philly been terrible at drafting

[footey]

Now I've said the fact that they've won 50 games multiple times would deem the process a success given just how awful the Sixers had been since Barkley, but that was never the goal of the Sixers. 

I’ve avoided those debates, but the current Sixers have made it exactly as far as the Holiday / Iguodala Sixers did in the playoffs.  That can absolutely change, but to date I’m not sure that that outcome is worth several seasons of historically terrible basketball.

That is true, but when Hinkie came on Iguodala was already off the team as a result of that awful Bynum trade.  In fact, it was the terribleness of that trade that led to the conclusion a complete blow up and rebuild was necessary.

For the record, that trade was

Iguodala, Harkless, Vucevic, future 1st which couldn't convey for at least 3 years (which became De'Aaron Fox)

for

Bynum, Richardson


Bynum never played a game for the Sixers as a result of his knee injury.


So that is what Hinkie walked into a team that had Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Lavoy Allen, Thad Young, Nick Young, Jason Richardson, and a bunch of crap.  That was missing two 1st round picks (the one from the Bynum trade, but also one they owed the Heat) and was coming off a 34-38 season (good enough for the 11th pick).  They were never going to win with that team.  They were missing two future 1st's, which were protected in such a way it made it nearly impossible to trade future 1st's.  They had no hope.  They had to rebuild.  And sure they could have kept Holiday and tried to build around him, but everyone knew Holiday wasn't a franchise player, but was also good enough to keep the Sixers from bottoming out completely (and ending up like a team like the Kings).  The Sixers were open about it and that is what got them into trouble, but no one bats an eye when Presti tears down a much better team, with much better future assets, and better players and is now entering year 3 of the exact same thing the Sixers did.  Presti just doesn't broadcast it

For whatever it’s worth, basketball reference has Philly giving up Iguodala plus:

Maurice Harkless, Nikola Vučević and a 2018 1st round draft pick (Landry Shamet was later selected) to the Orlando Magic. (1st Round pick from PHI to ORL was eventually traded back to PHI. 1st-Rd pick from LAL to ORL turns into 2017 & 2018 2nd-Rd picks if Lakers 1st-Rd pick traded to PHO/PHI does not convey by 2017

So, not as bad, but still terrible.

The only thing worthwhile during the process was picking Embiid. Which was luck. Had he not gotten hurt he’d have been too pick and Sixers would have landed Jabari Parker. If Ainge ran Sixers during the process they would have won multiple championships by now.