Author Topic: 2022 Draft  (Read 35578 times)

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Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2022, 02:52:05 PM »

Offline footey

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2022, 03:08:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2022, 04:58:22 PM »

Offline gouki88

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.
Banchero would be so good. Currently playing better at Duke than Tatum was ;)
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2022, 05:07:03 PM »

Offline liam

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.
Banchero would be so good. Currently playing better at Duke than Tatum was ;)

Wasn't Tatum injured much of his year with Duke...

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2022, 05:09:07 PM »

Offline gouki88

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.
Banchero would be so good. Currently playing better at Duke than Tatum was ;)

Wasn't Tatum injured much of his year with Duke...
He played 29 games, so didn't miss that much time. Also averaged more MPG than Banchero
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2022, 05:45:24 PM »

Offline footey

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2022, 06:06:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.
It doesn't when drafting. Even moreso at the top of the draft. You pick the best player and work it out.

Celtics once had Bird and Maxwell, both essentially PFs, then made a trade for a center, Parish, and used their pick to select McHale, a PF/C. And then they worked things out.

Either way, Banchero is a PF, something this team needs.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2022, 06:11:05 PM »

Offline wiley

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.
It doesn't when drafting. Even moreso at the top of the draft. You pick the best player and work it out.

Celtics once had Bird and Maxwell, both essentially PFs, then made a trade for a center, Parish, and used their pick to select McHale, a PF/C. And then they worked things out.

Either way, Banchero is a PF, something this team needs.

teams would or should never  turn down picking the clearly better player for one at a position of need.  And I doubt they ever do (at least not on purpose), as every GM knows he increases his chance of being fired if he keeps missing on talent in the draft.

However, there are endless situations where BPA is not clear and not easily predicted.  So what's left?  Fit. Intangibles. Hunches, etc...

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2022, 06:45:49 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.
It doesn't when drafting. Even moreso at the top of the draft. You pick the best player and work it out.

Celtics once had Bird and Maxwell, both essentially PFs, then made a trade for a center, Parish, and used their pick to select McHale, a PF/C. And then they worked things out.

Either way, Banchero is a PF, something this team needs.

teams would or should never  turn down picking the clearly better player for one at a position of need.  And I doubt they ever do (at least not on purpose), as every GM knows he increases his chance of being fired if he keeps missing on talent in the draft.

However, there are endless situations where BPA is not clear and not easily predicted.  So what's left?  Fit. Intangibles. Hunches, etc...

That’s true to a point, but I think, for example, that the Sixers did themselves nor their picks no favors by taking Noel, Embiid, and Okafor in three consecutive drafts.  There was no way those three could ever be compatible, and they got terrible returns on the two they ultimately got rid of.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2022, 07:38:26 PM »

Offline wiley

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.
It doesn't when drafting. Even moreso at the top of the draft. You pick the best player and work it out.

Celtics once had Bird and Maxwell, both essentially PFs, then made a trade for a center, Parish, and used their pick to select McHale, a PF/C. And then they worked things out.

Either way, Banchero is a PF, something this team needs.

teams would or should never  turn down picking the clearly better player for one at a position of need.  And I doubt they ever do (at least not on purpose), as every GM knows he increases his chance of being fired if he keeps missing on talent in the draft.

However, there are endless situations where BPA is not clear and not easily predicted.  So what's left?  Fit. Intangibles. Hunches, etc...

That’s true to a point, but I think, for example, that the Sixers did themselves nor their picks no favors by taking Noel, Embiid, and Okafor in three consecutive drafts.  There was no way those three could ever be compatible, and they got terrible returns on the two they ultimately got rid of.

Yeah...maybe a case of screwing up fit by going for BPA hehe (and not getting it in a couple of cases...hence the screwup). 

I think this highlights that you can go for fit if there are two guys who play different positions and you don't know which will have the better career.  That's not rejecting BPA.  It's not knowing.  Big difference.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2022, 07:44:09 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.
It doesn't when drafting. Even moreso at the top of the draft. You pick the best player and work it out.

Celtics once had Bird and Maxwell, both essentially PFs, then made a trade for a center, Parish, and used their pick to select McHale, a PF/C. And then they worked things out.

Either way, Banchero is a PF, something this team needs.

teams would or should never  turn down picking the clearly better player for one at a position of need.  And I doubt they ever do (at least not on purpose), as every GM knows he increases his chance of being fired if he keeps missing on talent in the draft.

However, there are endless situations where BPA is not clear and not easily predicted.  So what's left?  Fit. Intangibles. Hunches, etc...

That’s true to a point, but I think, for example, that the Sixers did themselves nor their picks no favors by taking Noel, Embiid, and Okafor in three consecutive drafts.  There was no way those three could ever be compatible, and they got terrible returns on the two they ultimately got rid of.

I find the logic behind draft strategy really interesting. To me the most logical way to rank and draft players is tier based BPA. Meaning you break the draft class into tiers and then factor need/roster fit when deciding between players but never move on to a lower tier when a higher tiered player is available. I have brought this up a few times on this board but the year the Cs drafted Rozier reports came out that that he was the last player available to the Celtics in his tier and the team debated jumping tiers for Justin Anderson because a wing was a better roster fit over another PG.

The Hinkie lead 76ers took this strategy to the absolute extreme with the 2013 (Noel),2014(Embiid), and 2015(Okafor) drafts. In the modern NBA true Center is the only position where redundancy is really a waist no matter the talent level. Had they ended up going with 3 guards 2013 (McCollum) 2014(Smart), and 2015(Russell) or 3 wings the fit wouldn't have been great but all three players could share the court together and develop. This is just isn't possible with 3 traditional centers.

The lack of center versatility also brings up another drafting strategy/facotor that I like, positional value. Unless we are talking blue chip, generational, physical outliers, who have all-star ceilings does it ever make sense to draft non combo guards (sub 6'2 pgs) or traditional centers in the top 20? or for that matter the 1st round? Drafting a likely backup PG or Center when they come at so little cost as FAs just doesn't feel like a good use of an asset. As much as I am a fan of Pritchard he was drafted with a likely backup at a position thats easy to replace while Jaden McDaniels went two picks later and as a 6'9 athletic wing is much harder to find in free agency if he hits 3/4 of his ceiling (not to mention our favorite sore spot Desmond Bane). This same draft also saw Utah draft Azubuike as their backup Center another player who's role can be replicated for cheap in free agency. 
Mavs
Wiz
Hornet

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2022, 08:12:24 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Updated my big board to 40 players and dialed in my rankings after the top 6

some players I'm really liking

Mark Williams, I didn't realize he has a 7'7 WS and measured a 9'8" reach. Those measurements along with his stats and passing the eye test has me convinced he will be a starting center.

Jalen Duren, he is another big who I project as a long term starting Center. He is really young, has great measurables, and couldn't be in a worse situation player on Memphis with horrible guard play

Jordon Hall, he is a little unorthodox and will need to prove he can shoot to make it in the NBA but he looks every bit of 6'7 and really passes the ball at a high level.

Blake Wesley, he currently is more of a combo guard but could be developed into a PG and at 6'5 with elite length he has the potential to be a top 5 player in this class down the road.


1   Jabari Smith   PF
2   Chet Holmgren   C
3   Paolo Banchero   PF
4   Johnny Davis   SG
5   Jaden Ivey   SG
6   A.J. Griffin   SF
7   Shaedon Sharpe   SG
8   Keegan Murray   SF
9   Patrick Baldwin Jr.   PF
10   Kendall Brown   SF
11   Jalen Duren   C
12   Tari Eason   SF
13   Jeremy Sochan   SF/PF
14   Mark Williams   C
15   Nikola Jovic   PF
16   Harrison Ingram   SF
17   Bennedict Mathurin   SG
18   Dyson Daniels   SG
19   TyTy Washington   PG
20   Jaden Hardy   SG
21   Max Christie   SG
22   Blake Wesley   PG/SG
23   Trevor Keels   SG
24   Caleb Love   PG
25   Ochai Agbaji   SG
26   Wendell Moore   SF
27   MarJon Beauchamp   SF
28   EJ Liddell   PF
29   Julian Champagnie   SF
30   Jabari Walker   PF
31   Caleb Houstan   SF
32   Jean Montero   PG
33   Walker Kessler   C
34   Kennedy Chandler   PG
35   J.D. Davison   PG
36   Christian Koloko   C
37   Kofi Cockburn   C
38   Jordan Hall    SG/PG
39   Johnny Juzang   SF
40   Orlando Robinson   C

Mavs
Wiz
Hornet

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2022, 09:49:53 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Updated my big board to 40 players and dialed in my rankings after the top 6

some players I'm really liking

Mark Williams, I didn't realize he has a 7'7 WS and measured a 9'8" reach. Those measurements along with his stats and passing the eye test has me convinced he will be a starting center.

Jalen Duren, he is another big who I project as a long term starting Center. He is really young, has great measurables, and couldn't be in a worse situation player on Memphis with horrible guard play

Jordon Hall, he is a little unorthodox and will need to prove he can shoot to make it in the NBA but he looks every bit of 6'7 and really passes the ball at a high level.

Blake Wesley, he currently is more of a combo guard but could be developed into a PG and at 6'5 with elite length he has the potential to be a top 5 player in this class down the road.


1   Jabari Smith   PF
2   Chet Holmgren   C
3   Paolo Banchero   PF
4   Johnny Davis   SG
5   Jaden Ivey   SG
6   A.J. Griffin   SF
7   Shaedon Sharpe   SG
8   Keegan Murray   SF
9   Patrick Baldwin Jr.   PF
10   Kendall Brown   SF
11   Jalen Duren   C
12   Tari Eason   SF
13   Jeremy Sochan   SF/PF
14   Mark Williams   C
15   Nikola Jovic   PF
16   Harrison Ingram   SF
17   Bennedict Mathurin   SG
18   Dyson Daniels   SG
19   TyTy Washington   PG
20   Jaden Hardy   SG
21   Max Christie   SG
22   Blake Wesley   PG/SG
23   Trevor Keels   SG
24   Caleb Love   PG
25   Ochai Agbaji   SG
26   Wendell Moore   SF
27   MarJon Beauchamp   SF
28   EJ Liddell   PF
29   Julian Champagnie   SF
30   Jabari Walker   PF
31   Caleb Houstan   SF
32   Jean Montero   PG
33   Walker Kessler   C
34   Kennedy Chandler   PG
35   J.D. Davison   PG
36   Christian Koloko   C
37   Kofi Cockburn   C
38   Jordan Hall    SG/PG
39   Johnny Juzang   SF
40   Orlando Robinson   C
Jalen Duren is one of my guys. Been a huge fan for a long time.

Keegan Murray is one I've recently become quite fond of
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2022, 12:13:02 AM »

Offline GreenShooter

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TyTy is a top 10 pick….easy.

Shaedon Sharpe at 7? Interesting.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2022, 12:24:13 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.
It doesn't when drafting. Even moreso at the top of the draft. You pick the best player and work it out.

Celtics once had Bird and Maxwell, both essentially PFs, then made a trade for a center, Parish, and used their pick to select McHale, a PF/C. And then they worked things out.

Either way, Banchero is a PF, something this team needs.

teams would or should never  turn down picking the clearly better player for one at a position of need.  And I doubt they ever do (at least not on purpose), as every GM knows he increases his chance of being fired if he keeps missing on talent in the draft.

However, there are endless situations where BPA is not clear and not easily predicted.  So what's left?  Fit. Intangibles. Hunches, etc...

That’s true to a point, but I think, for example, that the Sixers did themselves nor their picks no favors by taking Noel, Embiid, and Okafor in three consecutive drafts.  There was no way those three could ever be compatible, and they got terrible returns on the two they ultimately got rid of.

I find the logic behind draft strategy really interesting. To me the most logical way to rank and draft players is tier based BPA. Meaning you break the draft class into tiers and then factor need/roster fit when deciding between players but never move on to a lower tier when a higher tiered player is available. I have brought this up a few times on this board but the year the Cs drafted Rozier reports came out that that he was the last player available to the Celtics in his tier and the team debated jumping tiers for Justin Anderson because a wing was a better roster fit over another PG.

The Hinkie lead 76ers took this strategy to the absolute extreme with the 2013 (Noel),2014(Embiid), and 2015(Okafor) drafts. In the modern NBA true Center is the only position where redundancy is really a waist no matter the talent level. Had they ended up going with 3 guards 2013 (McCollum) 2014(Smart), and 2015(Russell) or 3 wings the fit wouldn't have been great but all three players could share the court together and develop. This is just isn't possible with 3 traditional centers.

The lack of center versatility also brings up another drafting strategy/facotor that I like, positional value. Unless we are talking blue chip, generational, physical outliers, who have all-star ceilings does it ever make sense to draft non combo guards (sub 6'2 pgs) or traditional centers in the top 20? or for that matter the 1st round? Drafting a likely backup PG or Center when they come at so little cost as FAs just doesn't feel like a good use of an asset. As much as I am a fan of Pritchard he was drafted with a likely backup at a position thats easy to replace while Jaden McDaniels went two picks later and as a 6'9 athletic wing is much harder to find in free agency if he hits 3/4 of his ceiling (not to mention our favorite sore spot Desmond Bane). This same draft also saw Utah draft Azubuike as their backup Center another player who's role can be replicated for cheap in free agency.

Regarding Pritchard vs. McDaniels.  McDaniels had some real maturity questions in college per a friend at UW.  As in, maturity even by young college athlete standards.  Not to say there weren’t other players who should have been picked, and I didn’t like Pritchard there at all because yes, backup PGs are plentiful in the NBA, but McDaniels would not be my example I’d run with.  There were non-basketball reasons teams passed on him for awhile.  So far it’s working out for him, and I hope he continues to find success, but he wasn’t the right player for a team coming off a conference finals appearance.