Author Topic: Compared to Kyrie  (Read 4080 times)

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Compared to Kyrie
« on: August 23, 2019, 08:55:03 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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Kemba seems more economical and less complex. Any time Kyrie had possession, with his abilities and dribble skills you never knew what extremes he would  go to breaking down his man.I think this led cutters to become ball watchers and  just allow Kyrie to work his magic.AND IT WAS MAGIC
Kemba making the right play, rather than him being the right play as Kyrie was and said "he could get wherever he wanted ".

Not once did Kemba WOW me but i saw what i needed in 2nd half, as he played basketball not street ball.
A sleight burst off a change of pace, a quick crossover, a stop on a dime and step back.There was no  flaunting duel with his opponents,no Harlem Globetrotter dribbling display or Willie Mosconi spins of the backboard but it seems there was spread out, double digit scoring from his teammates.
The Celtics fans are going to love this guy,his teammates will all play better with him and Brad will be a better coach.
Kemba will play Celtics basketball.


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« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 09:12:43 AM by rollie mass »

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2019, 09:01:05 AM »

Offline Walker Wiggle

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In general I don't think it's healthy to compare the two, at least not to excess, but since we're on the topic I will say this: Watching Kemba in international competition reminds me much more of Isaiah Thomas than Kyrie. As the OP mentioned, the movements are less complex, the decisions are quicker, etc. I think Stevens will use Kemba very similarly to how he used IT.

There are things that Kemba can not do that Kyrie can. Most importantly, with the shot clock running down, there are few people in the entire league that can get their shot off like Kyrie can. The good news is that you have a guy on your team named Jason Tatum that is growing into that role. Plus, having a dominant one-on-one player on your team can be a curse, as we've just seen, because sometimes those skills get overused, and it detracts from ball movement and team ball.

Very excited to see how this all works in the regular season.

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2019, 09:52:16 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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I think there is a complete unfair comparison with looking at Kyrie last season and Kemba this upcoming season, in relation to team and teammate success. I thought Kyrie was fantastic for most of last season, but grew too tired of the selfish play and lack of team cohesiveness on the court towards the end of the season. I still believe the playoff run without Kyrie and Hayward the year before, did more harm than good. Brown thought they were a shoe in to compete for titles for the next 5 or so years, and even had the nerve to ask Danny if this past season’s team was as good as the ‘86 Celtics. Brown, Tatum, and Rozier thought they were superstars and wanted to be treated as such, even though they weren’t close to that level. I’m hoping the failure of last season humbled Brown and Tatum enough, and they realize nothing is given to you.

I do like the fact that Walker, Tatum, Brown, and Smart have been playing together on team USA and getting to know each other. However, I do have some concerns that I hope don’t become a big deal. Will the bond forming between Walker, Tatum, and Brown on team USA make Hayward almost feel like a third wheel again? Will the relationship forming with Walker (and also just being on Team USA) make Tatum and Brown feel like they’re better or ahead of Hayward, which may cause tension again of who starts or comes off the bench.

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2019, 10:19:25 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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All I care about is name a ball handler who didn't get better under Brad. Are we going to see a better version of Kemba? If so how can we not be hyped?
ok fine

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2019, 10:49:42 AM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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I agree with you rollie. Kyrie's amazing skillset actually on the whole hurt the team's ball-movement and off-the-ball cutting. Our offense didn't look like a typical Brad Stevens offense. And Kyrie was part of the reason.

Morris and Tatum, and to a lesser extent Rozier and Hayward, all played too much isolation ball last year. Maybe they were following their "leader" Kyrie? Maybe Stevens didn't rein it in. Who knows.

Hopefully Kemba can help to make the C's offense more team-oriented next season.

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2019, 10:57:56 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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I agree with you rollie. Kyrie's amazing skillset actually on the whole hurt the team's ball-movement and off-the-ball cutting. Our offense didn't look like a typical Brad Stevens offense. And Kyrie was part of the reason.

Morris and Tatum, and to a lesser extent Rozier and Hayward, all played too much isolation ball last year. Maybe they were following their "leader" Kyrie? Maybe Stevens didn't rein it in. Who knows.

Hopefully Kemba can help to make the C's offense more team-oriented next season.
Yes.  I think this will be "addition-by-subtraction" and hoping for a better-looking offense. However, I can't say yet whether this translates into more wins.

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2019, 11:26:42 AM »

Offline JBcat

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I hate pinning all of last year’s problems on Irving even though he deserved part of it.  Irving after all averaged the most assists of his career, and we had good team passing stats.  Tatum, Brown, and Rozier for that matter all need to become better passers, and we also had the black hole Morris that didn’t help.

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2019, 11:31:18 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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I think there is a complete unfair comparison with looking at Kyrie last season and Kemba this upcoming season, in relation to team and teammate success. I thought Kyrie was fantastic for most of last season, but grew too tired of the selfish play and lack of team cohesiveness on the court towards the end of the season. I still believe the playoff run without Kyrie and Hayward the year before, did more harm than good. Brown thought they were a shoe in to compete for titles for the next 5 or so years, and even had the nerve to ask Danny if this past season’s team was as good as the ‘86 Celtics. Brown, Tatum, and Rozier thought they were superstars and wanted to be treated as such, even though they weren’t close to that level. I’m hoping the failure of last season humbled Brown and Tatum enough, and they realize nothing is given to you.

I do like the fact that Walker, Tatum, Brown, and Smart have been playing together on team USA and getting to know each other. However, I do have some concerns that I hope don’t become a big deal. Will the bond forming between Walker, Tatum, and Brown on team USA make Hayward almost feel like a third wheel again? Will the relationship forming with Walker (and also just being on Team USA) make Tatum and Brown feel like they’re better or ahead of Hayward, which may cause tension again of who starts or comes off the bench.
If Hayward is a dealbreaker for the young guys he will need to go. It’s unfortunate what happened to him but we can’t be held hostage to his recovery and well being of a career. At this point he has to take the back seat unless he clearly demonstrates he’s better than the Js

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 11:42:25 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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I think this is potentially a big problem. Hayward ( IMO) is better in every category than both Tatum and brown. The one exception I would give is to Jaylen on defense. If Hayward is 85 percent the player he was in Utah that’s much better than those guys. It’s just my opinion but I think Brown could accept that but I doubt Tatum would. I think Tatum May actually think he’s the better player. This SHOULD NOT be a problem but if we don’t have a leader delegating roles it will be a big one.

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2019, 11:56:27 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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I think there is a complete unfair comparison with looking at Kyrie last season and Kemba this upcoming season, in relation to team and teammate success. I thought Kyrie was fantastic for most of last season, but grew too tired of the selfish play and lack of team cohesiveness on the court towards the end of the season. I still believe the playoff run without Kyrie and Hayward the year before, did more harm than good. Brown thought they were a shoe in to compete for titles for the next 5 or so years, and even had the nerve to ask Danny if this past season’s team was as good as the ‘86 Celtics. Brown, Tatum, and Rozier thought they were superstars and wanted to be treated as such, even though they weren’t close to that level. I’m hoping the failure of last season humbled Brown and Tatum enough, and they realize nothing is given to you.

I do like the fact that Walker, Tatum, Brown, and Smart have been playing together on team USA and getting to know each other. However, I do have some concerns that I hope don’t become a big deal. Will the bond forming between Walker, Tatum, and Brown on team USA make Hayward almost feel like a third wheel again? Will the relationship forming with Walker (and also just being on Team USA) make Tatum and Brown feel like they’re better or ahead of Hayward, which may cause tension again of who starts or comes off the bench.
If Hayward is a dealbreaker for the young guys he will need to go. It’s unfortunate what happened to him but we can’t be held hostage to his recovery and well being of a career. At this point he has to take the back seat unless he clearly demonstrates he’s better than the Js

Well there is also the option for Hayward to re-negotiate and extend after this season.

If Jaylen and Jayson continue to develop and reach their potential and we really want to preserve that starting unit and
the teams decides to relegate Hayward to most over qualified 6th man since Manu status that could be the making of a championship core.

That being said though I'm willing to give up on Hayward in the starting lineup. This team is going to miss Horford's playmaking and Gordon Hayward might just find that he fits right into the first unit.

I remember Jaylen had that quote about he, Hayward and Tatum all trying to do the same thing on offense. Well without Horford there will now plenty of new opportunity for Hayward to fill the gap as the stabilizing force that make the rest of the unit work. Kemba and the young guys wouldn't need to change anything.

Kemba can be the primary scorer and lead ball handler
 
Tatum can be the primary/secondary scorer

Jaylen can be athletic wing who cuts hard, fills the lanes and spots up for 3's

Hayward can be the mid-post secondary playmaker and floor stretcher that make the rest of the team flow

Kanter can do what he does best and focus and boards and post scoring

Smart can be the change of pace guard off the bench. The modern day Iguodalla.

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2019, 01:40:29 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I agree that Kemba seems to make decisions more quickly.  He's less flashy despite being a very impressive ballhandler.

Definitely not as talented as Kyrie, but sometimes less is more.


I'm really glad that Jaylen, Marcus, Jayson and Kemba are getting this chance to build chemistry playing together on Team USA.
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Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2019, 02:13:56 PM »

Offline Spicoli

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When are people going to start pointing the finger at Stevens for this teams offensive woes? Kemba will only be able to do what he can, in this system. Danny Ainge really needs to bring in some sort of offensive coordinator to help Stevens out.

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2019, 04:18:29 PM »

Offline footey

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I think there is a complete unfair comparison with looking at Kyrie last season and Kemba this upcoming season, in relation to team and teammate success. I thought Kyrie was fantastic for most of last season, but grew too tired of the selfish play and lack of team cohesiveness on the court towards the end of the season. I still believe the playoff run without Kyrie and Hayward the year before, did more harm than good. Brown thought they were a shoe in to compete for titles for the next 5 or so years, and even had the nerve to ask Danny if this past season’s team was as good as the ‘86 Celtics. Brown, Tatum, and Rozier thought they were superstars and wanted to be treated as such, even though they weren’t close to that level. I’m hoping the failure of last season humbled Brown and Tatum enough, and they realize nothing is given to you.

I do like the fact that Walker, Tatum, Brown, and Smart have been playing together on team USA and getting to know each other. However, I do have some concerns that I hope don’t become a big deal. Will the bond forming between Walker, Tatum, and Brown on team USA make Hayward almost feel like a third wheel again? Will the relationship forming with Walker (and also just being on Team USA) make Tatum and Brown feel like they’re better or ahead of Hayward, which may cause tension again of who starts or comes off the bench.
If Hayward is a dealbreaker for the young guys he will need to go. It’s unfortunate what happened to him but we can’t be held hostage to his recovery and well being of a career. At this point he has to take the back seat unless he clearly demonstrates he’s better than the Js

You are manufacturing a problem. What if Tatum’s the problem? Do we trade him?

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2019, 09:01:43 PM »

Offline ozgod

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I think there is a complete unfair comparison with looking at Kyrie last season and Kemba this upcoming season, in relation to team and teammate success. I thought Kyrie was fantastic for most of last season, but grew too tired of the selfish play and lack of team cohesiveness on the court towards the end of the season. I still believe the playoff run without Kyrie and Hayward the year before, did more harm than good. Brown thought they were a shoe in to compete for titles for the next 5 or so years, and even had the nerve to ask Danny if this past season’s team was as good as the ‘86 Celtics. Brown, Tatum, and Rozier thought they were superstars and wanted to be treated as such, even though they weren’t close to that level. I’m hoping the failure of last season humbled Brown and Tatum enough, and they realize nothing is given to you.

I do like the fact that Walker, Tatum, Brown, and Smart have been playing together on team USA and getting to know each other. However, I do have some concerns that I hope don’t become a big deal. Will the bond forming between Walker, Tatum, and Brown on team USA make Hayward almost feel like a third wheel again? Will the relationship forming with Walker (and also just being on Team USA) make Tatum and Brown feel like they’re better or ahead of Hayward, which may cause tension again of who starts or comes off the bench.

I think we're making a little too much of this bond...obviously it's good media because of the chemistry issues last year, but Kemba has played with JB and JT for a couple months. JB and JT played with Gordon and Smart an entire year. JB and JT and Smart have played together for 2 years now. And in any case Kemba and Gordon are good friends and both are unselfish.

I would hope after last year they have all learned that a) being selfish and self-focused is a recipe for disaster, both for the team and personally; and b) Gordon is one of the most unselfish players in the team and has no problem at all passing people the ball.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Compared to Kyrie
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2019, 11:03:01 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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When are people going to start pointing the finger at Stevens for this teams offensive woes? Kemba will only be able to do what he can, in this system. Danny Ainge really needs to bring in some sort of offensive coordinator to help Stevens out.

He is fine. Our offense generate a lot of good and open shots. Our problem is the lack of penetration from the wing, with Hayward not 100% last year, Brown's handling and Tatum's love with the Mid range. Add Rozier, Kyrie and Morris' isos tendencies and youve got a problem. Its especially bad for Morris and Rozier because neither are really good to warrant that much isos.