Author Topic: Doc Rivers report card...!  (Read 5558 times)

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Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2009, 06:34:07 PM »

Offline Scalablob990

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I know my writing can be a little sketchy so i'll use a scenario to better explain it. If I was Bill Walker and Doc just told me to go out and guard LBJ, but before I went he told me  "Bill you've got 4 minutes, your job is to play defense so we can give PP the time to rest, don't worry about messing up" I would be less inclined to freak out (ala Pruitt) and I would work harder to show I can do that job. Doc doesn't like to do that.
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Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2009, 06:40:33 PM »

Offline Scalablob990

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And "No" I don't think Doc is a bad coach, I like the guy, but yes I think he can improve a bit in certain areas like subbing, and when to call time outs. If it also helps, yes I do believe he's a better coach then Pitino was. :)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 06:54:51 PM by Scalablob990 »
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Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2009, 06:44:58 PM »

Offline TatteredOnMySleeve

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A+, hes kept the defending champions about as motivated as you could imagine with alot of minor nagging injuries...and sure we can complain about him not playing Billy Walker, but please, if we want to win, unfortunately Pierce has to play 40 minutes right now, blame that on Danny not Doc, he knows better than us whether bill is ready , hes clearly not.
We're 45-12, the only 2 teams that are "better" than us right now are 2 teams hell bent on getting homecourt...because of us.
 Any other year 45-12 is above and beyond the best record in the league, just as it was last year
When you got it going, you got it going. I just keep my focus down the stretch. That's when I want the ball. I'm just not afraid to fail."-PaulPierce

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2009, 06:47:40 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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I know my writing can be a little sketchy so i'll use a scenario to better explain it. If I was Bill Walker and Doc just told me to go out and guard LBJ, but before I went he told me  "Bill you've got 4 minutes, your job is to play defense so we can give PP the time to rest, don't worry about messing up" I would be less inclined to freak out (ala Pruitt) and I would work harder to show I can do that job. Doc doesn't like to do that.


Every coaches philosophy should be, "Hey champ, just go out there and have fun. Don't worry about playing well or making mistakes. Just look pretty and try and play defense."

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2009, 06:51:04 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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I think Doc has been okay this year.  Other than his obsession with Tony Allen, his playing rotation has been pretty solid.  He's started to mix his bench in with his starters more, which is a necessity.

I'd like to see Bill Walker get some more run.  We're going to need somebody who can covers 2s and 3s in the playoffs in place of Pierce and Ray, and Walker seems to physically be the best option. 

So, the weaknesses are lack of development of the young guys, too much Tony Allen, and not maximizing his bench's performance.  The pluses have been keeping the team motivated and focused (other than through the 2-7 stretch, when they were dead), and developing Rondo into a near co-equal with the "big three".

I'd give Doc a B this season, I guess.  The mistakes he is making don't appear fatal, but he's not necessarily getting the absolute maximum out of his team (or setting them up as well as possible for the playoffs).

TP for an excellent analysis.

I do fault Doc a little for his persistence playing ineptitude, such as Tony Allen - whether you're watching the minutes of the Big 3 or not. Also, he's been slow to recognize the fairly obvious - House needs to run the 2 to be effective.

I'd dock him a letter grade for playing POB more - that one was a disgraceful signing. Anyone who'd done any due diligence knew POB isn't an NBA player.

But other than that, I'd go B, B+. Not his fault he doesn't have a bench.


Tony Allen has been the best wing option off the bench. Thus, I'm not sure what you mean by Doc's persistence on playing ineptitude. Tony is the best wing option off the bench, and it's as simple as that.

Hmmm... No! House is the best wing option off the bench. We don't have a true SF off the bench. We have 2's and 4's. At the 2 spot it is House. At the 4 it is Scal and Powe. TA makes neither list.

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2009, 06:51:51 PM »

Offline TatteredOnMySleeve

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I think complaints about Walker, Pruitt and Giddens not getting minutes arent even that legitimate, none of these players are that good, and all of them pretty much hurt our chances to win, unfortunately...sure it would be great if he could play them and they could contribute, but I trust the coaching staffs judgements, they arent not playing them becuase theyre rookies, just look how perfectly he played Big baby last year as a rook, theyre not playing because they arent ready and/or just not that good
When you got it going, you got it going. I just keep my focus down the stretch. That's when I want the ball. I'm just not afraid to fail."-PaulPierce

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2009, 07:02:54 PM »

Offline gustusias

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 To be honest I know zero about coaching and what it means to handle players at this level. I remember how the world hated Bill Fitch with the old Celtics. Bird calls him the best coach he ever had. We finally won with Doc after 22 long and miserable years. ML Carr, Chris Ford, Pitino, Jim O'Brien come to mind.  Boston is a terrible place to play and I guess coach as well..Fans are so smart.  Sorry to say all that, but aren't you guys finding a bit too much fault with a coach whose players put out 110%, and put out 110% even when they were losing for several seasons.  I just don't agree here. Several of you guys are just really perturbing.This subject comes up over and over again. Some of you just never want to let it rest. Yeah, he has made mistakes I suppose. So haven't I in my life.  We are winning. We have a good team and one that has great commaderie, spirit, desire, hustle, defense, exciting players. What is bugging some of you? Remember this, kiddies. (I am over 60 and see you all as such. Sorry, but such is the case.) The Boston Celtics are a way of life and not a basketball team. This team since Doc took over exemplifies the true spirit of what it means to be Boston Celtics. I will live and die, rootingfor them from the pit of my gut and for him too.

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2009, 07:11:23 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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we always have exciting debates about Gerald Green's potential, Posey's incredible intangibles, Doc's coaching ineptitude, and Antoine's embodiment of Celtic green. If we didn't do these things there would be no celticsblog. You must be an infrequent viewer.

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2009, 07:30:54 PM »

Offline Spfldkid

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Well, although i myself am guilty of it.....In Mass. We are hard on our teams. We expect them to live the hard line New England standard. Hard work and dedication. But here, we just show that we too bleed green...and by blogging about it maybe figuring out why things go the way they do....We don't hate Doc, or Scal, or any of them in the end...they are playing for our team!!! Besides, I try no to hate anyone that i never met...except politicians, wall street frauds, bankers ect...! Barney Frank......sorry, had to say that....Go Celts..! Good win today, Denver will be tough...!

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2009, 07:40:48 PM »

Offline gustusias

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Kungpowechicken.... I am here almost every day of my life, several times a day. Antoine Walker was, is, and will be always the antithesis of a Celtic. His years with this team were among the most miserable I have ever known. He stunk, truly stunk. And your phrasing 'Doc's ineptitude' is quite presumptuous. The debate is quite boring and redundant. Obviously those people controlling the C's feel differently about Doc, and thankfully so. So enough already. It's just plane empty of any consequence, proof, or beneficial result. Enough. I am not an idiot and I recognize a solid coach and human being when I see one. To replace Doc Rivers would be just plane stupid. We are lucky to have him here.

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2009, 08:23:11 PM »

Offline TrueGreen

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I think people are trying real hard to find things wrong with Doc. For instance, one statement talked about other teams putting in subs when they have a big lead. Well, what is a big lead. Last year in game 5 of the finals the Lakers had, I believe, a 24 point lead late in the third quarter and the Celtics came back to win that game. The C's had a very big lead in game 2 and the Lakers almost came back to win. There is no big lead in the NBA. And the Celtics aren't other teams. Other teams are not competing for a championship as we are and they can experiment with guys off the bench. Doc doesn't have that luxury. He used to and he was criticized for using undeveloped players when that was all he had except for Pierce. Actually Doc is very contentious about playing time for certain players and usually sticks to that regimen. There are some games, like the one today against Phoenix, that you need to win. We are still fighting for home court advantage and need to win games. When that is decided one way or the other I can assure you we'll go into the playoffs with our main players rested, but sharp.

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2009, 08:27:07 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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I think people are trying real hard to find things wrong with Doc.

I don't think so.  The vast majority of people are giving Doc an above-average grade.  Not everyone thinks he's flawless, however.

Quote
For instance, one statement talked about other teams putting in subs when they have a big lead. Well, what is a big lead. Last year in game 5 of the finals the Lakers had, I believe, a 24 point lead late in the third quarter and the Celtics came back to win that game. The C's had a very big lead in game 2 and the Lakers almost came back to win. There is no big lead in the NBA. And the Celtics aren't other teams. Other teams are not competing for a championship as we are and they can experiment with guys off the bench. Doc doesn't have that luxury. He used to and he was criticized for using undeveloped players when that was all he had except for Pierce. Actually Doc is very contentious about playing time for certain players and usually sticks to that regimen. There are some games, like the one today against Phoenix, that you need to win. We are still fighting for home court advantage and need to win games. When that is decided one way or the other I can assure you we'll go into the playoffs with our main players rested, but sharp.

Well, when Paul Pierce is noting a concern that he and Ray will get burned out, and the team has a 22 point lead with 6 minutes left, I think it's fair to suggest that at least Pierce -- who had played 40 minutes to that point -- could get some rest.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2009, 10:04:51 PM »

Offline PSquared

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Kungpowechicken.... I am here almost every day of my life, several times a day. Antoine Walker was, is, and will be always the antithesis of a Celtic. His years with this team were among the most miserable I have ever known. He stunk, truly stunk. And your phrasing 'Doc's ineptitude' is quite presumptuous.

Wow. Talk about "presumptuous".  ::)

I didn't think his years here with the team were "miserable", as you stated.   The C's became watchable(at the very least) once Toine and Pierce became a tandem.  And even before then, Antoine was the sole bright spot in an otherwise "miserable" team which "stunk, truly stunk".   

I don't really get what your issue is with him at all....  ???



Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2009, 11:23:24 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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So, if we suspend the possibility of a miracle trade or free agent signing....what is docs performance evaluation to date...?  My assesment is as follows;

 He does allow his players to exercise free will and play to their strengths...He did choose the best point guard of the past lot, and did allow him to play and develop.....and his team won a championship! There are more good points also, which I expect others to illustrate, but lets keep this professional, no disrespect, direct or indirect please. (I'm the sensitive type...!) :-)

 I for one feel that he plays too safe. That he overplayed his starters, which resulted in injuries. If you watch other teams, they rotate in subs when a decent lead is going, and to try new combinations, "real time"...Remember last year, Detriot put a flat out ROOKIE into the playoffs at guard and he did very well...word was he didn't show much before that....!

  And yes, one final thing from my POB opinion...some people compare him to Blount, some to old Acie Earl, well, those two guys had their chance in their own hands.....You see, they PLAYED, they started, finished, crunch time, all the time, and who was the coach then....Acia had O'Brien I think, Doc may have had Blount. But they played all the time in the world...you see the diff...? BUT, after saying that, I will be happy to let it pass now..we'll see what he does in Canada, and when he comes back to play us again....if they play him at all..?

   I really don't see much from Doc.....I think KG, PP, and Ray run the show...Doc would be a better manager or something....I mean why did he sign Sam....was it a bailout for his friend, pay him a mill or so to hang out with on the bench...? He didn't even play once this year...! And another one, why does Doc have his big guys set the high pick...? If he wants them to do it all the time, then why not teach them how to do it without getting stupid fouls (Perk) we do not have big men to lose here. Which comes to another point...Did he think The Chief was going to walk thru that door? Did he think he was going to make PJ come back (well yes...) No re-tooling at all..they could have had Posey easily....sign him for what he wanted, they were only a bit off...Could have traded him after 2 years....better than SOME other guys we got stuck with in the past...! Before Doc got the big 3, he only played 5 guys all the time, and no one ever got the ball except PP......coaching..?
A micromanaging coach will not get you titles.

Funny how you blame Doc for poor pick setting. Yet you credit the Big 3 for all the good stuff. The Big Three with their big zero finals appearances without Doc. The Big Three who credit Doc as being a great coach.

Truth is, you and I have no idea who to credit for what. It's the Quine-Duhem thesis. The theories are underdetermined by the evidence. There are countless plausible interpretations, including fringe ones like an anti-Doc one at this point. These kinds of threads lead nowhere, with people thinking they can give irrefutable evidence when there is no such thing.

You compare Blount, a veteran who has played minutes on multiple teams, with POB, who has been nothing but disappointment. Based on what POB has shown, playing him is a sign of being a horrible evaluator of talent.

Re: Doc Rivers report card...!
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2009, 11:32:18 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Doc needs to learn he's got 3 unknown weapons in Giddens, Walker, and Gabe. Gabe has not broken out yet, but I think he's close. We can't keep playing Pierce 40 minutes every game, if Pierce goes down it's like decapitating our team, along with ripping out the heart. Besides subbing methods at times, refusing to use new blood is the second thing from Doc which bothers me. I'd drop a solid B or high C+ for Doc.
Why do you call those three unknown? They may be unknown to us, perhaps, but far less unknown to Doc and the coaching staff. And if they are unknown, how does it make sense to complain about them lacking minutes? Shouldn't you save save such complaints for guys who can contribute?

If when he plays those guys, they aren't any good, and we lose some close games they play in, how long until you will be satisfied that those guys aren't ready?

And when that happens, there will be people posting "why did Doc play half-baked players causing us to lose games we should have won"?